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Shooting At Empire State Building In NYC  
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4452 posts, RR: 15
Posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

Quote:
NEW YORK (AP) — New York City officials say several people have been shot outside the Empire State Building and that the gunman is dead.
City police say three or four civilians have been wounded in the Friday morning shooting and that the shooter is dead.
http://news.yahoo.com/several-people...pire-state-building-133147539.html


Ever since James Holmes it seems this truly is happening every week. My sympathies to the victims.  Sad

[Edited 2012-08-24 06:48:18]

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6292 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3063 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):
Ever since James Holmes it seems this truly is happening every week

Or at least the media is covering it more as a result of Aurora...


User currently onlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9264 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):

Yes, we typically in the news tend to avoid covering shootings in church temples or outside rather large tall landmarks unless a good dozen or two were shot up in the weeks prior at a movie theater.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13940 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3039 times:

I thought handguns are illegal in New York City?

Jan


User currently onlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9264 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):

Does it really matter anymore?
We're hearing it's a sawed off shot gun.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13940 posts, RR: 63
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 4):

Does it really matter anymore?
We're hearing it's a sawed off shot gun.

Even more illegal.

Jan


User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3010 posts, RR: 48
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2981 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Please keep the thread on-topic. Gun control is already discussed in a separate thread which can be found here:

Why Not Gun Control (by GEEZER Aug 11 2012 in Non Aviation)



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10862 posts, RR: 38
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

I feel sad at the innocents who lost their lives.

RIP

Two Dead in Empire State Shooting

Police responding opened fire on the suspect, killing him, sources said. At least seven others were hurt in a possible stampede as thousands of terrified bystanders tried to flee.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local...ilding-Shooting-167313495.html?hhh

 Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 10):
I feel sad at the innocents who lost their lives.

Fortunately, only one innocent lost their life here. The other person was the shooter.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinemdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4124 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Just for some clarification, the only way that the ESB is connected is that it was across the street from where this happened. Also it appears that this shooting was not a crazed gunman but a disgruntled former worker who targeted a former co-worker. That doesn't make it any better, still horrible but could have been much worse given how crowded that area is in the morning.


"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8163 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2724 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
I thought handguns are illegal in New York City?

No. They just have a Mayor who wishes there were significantly fewer guns.

The gunman used a 45, killing an ex-fellow worker. Sort of a Postal type shooting which seems to be a US invention. A construction worker saw it and followed the guy while talking to the Police. My guess is that the construction worker had a mobile phone - he certainly was effective in co-ordinating with the Police.

[Edited 2012-08-24 12:05:55 by srbmod]

User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2624 times:

Once again, this thread is not for the discussion of gun control. If you want to discuss gun control, do so in the following thread:

Why Not Gun Control (by GEEZER Aug 11 2012 in Non Aviation)

If users continue to hijack this thread into a discussion about gun control, this thread may be subject to being locked.


User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2908 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

As a New Yorker the amount of media attention this incident is getting is ridiculous. Do you know how many shootings there are in NY ?


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2518 times:

Apparently the police hit nine people trying to shoot the gunman (i.e. everyone who was shot other than the gunman and the gunman's target). Fortunately all of them survived.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8163 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
Apparently the police hit nine people trying to shoot the gunman

My bet is that the Mayor is going to move for major improvements in training - both initial and on-going.

I think that people tend to forget that when they pull the trigger they are responsible for the entire flight path of the bullet. Everything until it stops moving. Nine innocent victims because the police were lousy shots makes the need for more (and better) training pretty obvious.

[Edited 2012-08-25 08:10:08 by srbmod]

User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 14):
Nine innocent victims because the police were lousy shots makes the need for more (and better) training pretty obvious.

You're assuming that they were lousy shots, which I think is premature. This was at a very busy street corner at a very busy time of the day, so it's entirely possible that there were just a lot of people around.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2489 times:

This was a bad mix of personal social problems (allegedly this guy was a 'loner), had some mental/psychological problems, lost his modest employment of many years and unable to get comparative replacement employment, in his late 50's (58) and access to a gun.

User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5327 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
You're assuming that they were lousy shots, which I think is premature. This was at a very busy street corner at a very busy time of the day, so it's entirely possible that there were just a lot of people around.


In which case, proper training dictates that the police officers do not fire into/through/above the crowd, but close with the suspect until a clear shot is established.

Look, I don't know how much time an NYPD officer gets on the range and in the classroom concerning shoot/no shoot decisions, but it seems obvious, that if the police officers fired through a crowd to get to this guy, their training is lacking.

If they had clear shots and still missed, hitting civilians, their practical training is lacking.

I wonder if their range training is set-up as a stress situation (moving targets, flashing lights, distractions, noises, etc.) or just standing in the lane at a static paper target at established distances.

I'd certainly be interested to learn more details about the police end of the shootings.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2468 times:

The guy shoots an ex co worker, walks out, cops approach him, he supposedly draws his gun but doesn't shoot at them, the cops open fire at him and hit him fatally and 9! other innocent bystanders in the process.

That training sure paid off. Brilliantly done, NYPD.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3906 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 17):
Look, I don't know how much time an NYPD officer gets on the range

Not sure about the NYPD, but there is only one "civilian" gun range in Manhattan (in the basement of a seedy strip club in Chelsea), and not a day goes buy in which Bloomberg doesn't try to shut it down. You can fire rifles there but it is almost impossible to fire a handgun unless you are a law enforcement officer (you can't even rent out handguns there to shoot, despite the fact you can rent a .45 rifle to blow holes through paper targets 25 feet away). The fact that police officers actually go to that one firing range to get some pistol time suggests the amount of time they spend on the NYPD range is not nearly enough.

[Edited 2012-08-25 08:10:34 by srbmod]


Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2421 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):
My sympathies to the victims.

Add mine to that list to please !

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
I thought handguns are illegal in New York City?

And what if they were, would it of made the slightest difference to the situation ?

Quoting alberchico (Reply 12):
As a New Yorker the amount of media attention this incident is getting is ridiculous. Do you know how many shootings there are in NY ?

So as a N Y'er, you'd rather watch an episode of Frasier, then be concerned about what's happened in the place you reside ?

Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
Fortunately all of them survived.
Quoting something (Reply 18):
The guy shoots an ex co worker, walks out, cops approach him, he supposedly draws his gun but doesn't shoot at them, the cops open fire at him and hit him fatally and 9! other innocent bystanders in the process.

Oh, the laws suits awaiting.......

Quoting something (Reply 18):
That training sure paid off. Brilliantly done, NYPD.

But wait....they may have been trained by the NRA   

[Edited 2012-08-25 08:11:04 by srbmod]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8781 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 20):
But wait....they may have been trained by the NRA

Obviously not.

The shooting of 9 by-standers by cops is an incredible embarrassment, and evidence of woefully insufficient training. The chief of police should resign at minimum. I can't recall another incident like this. One stray bullet is bad enough, but 9???



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2908 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 20):
Quoting alberchico (Reply 12):
As a New Yorker the amount of media attention this incident is getting is ridiculous. Do you know how many shootings there are in NY ?

So as a N Y'er, you'd rather watch an episode of Frasier, then be concerned about what's happened in the place you reside ?

Because the shootings and violence that happen in other parts of the city are not well covered by the media but this incident causes local channels to interrupt programming to provide hours of live coverage, not to mention that all the injuries from gunfire were caused by police not the shooter.

The NYPD was recently embroiled in controversy regarding the stop and frisk searches of minorities as a result of shootings and violence in certain areas of the city . Does this mean that now middle aged white men are considered suspects ?   



short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlineGEEZER From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):
Ever since James Holmes it seems this truly is happening every week. My sympathies to the victims.  

Ever since James Holmes ? I see absolutely NO correlation of this incident to the James Holmes incident; there were dozens of murders by gun shot in Chicago every week prior to James Holmes' rampage, and there have been dozens more since;
so what does the James Holmes incident have to do with anything ? Other than the fact that he killed more people than most shooters do.........

Obviously, many members of A.net live in NYC; I haven't been in NYC since I retired in 1997; but prior to that time, I was there every week; it was ALWAYS illegal to have a hand gun there; the only "remarkable" thing I see about this recent incident, is the number or people in the vicinity being hit by police who were attempting to shoot the "shooter"; ( I think that may very well be a record of sorts ); what does this suggest to me ? That Mayor Bloomburg is no doubt chewing off his finger nails !

I'll tell you what ALL of these incidents PROVE to me...........that we have a huge population of very violent, very "out of control" people running around loose, who need to be either "locked up" or "removed" from society. Any thoughts on how to "remove " them, or a "destination" to remove them to ?

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinekpitrrat From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):
Ever since James Holmes it seems this truly is happening every week. My sympathies to the victims.

There are quite a few shootings going on in New Castle, Youngstown, and Pittsburgh. Weeks ago a kid was executed, shot in the back of the head on his knees, in a park in New Castle PA for something like $200 and a bag of weed. I haven't seen it in national news but it is still gun violence. Sadly this is NOT something spurred from the Aurora shootings.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 1):
Or at least the media is covering it more as a result of Aurora...

I do believe that is the case. If this guy did what he did on "Xth street in Brooklyn/Queens/etc" (sorry I am obviously not from NY and am being general in this case) do you really think we would have heard so much about this shooting? If at all outside of NYC? I think my phone alerted me at least 6 times by 1pm about this shooting between my AP news, and FOX news apps.


25 something : The local media is portraying this as a heroic act though. ''The brave policemen who risked their lives to protect the American people.''
26 fr8mech : I was having a couple of beers with one of my officer friends last night and I asked him what additional he may have heard about the allegation that
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