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Apple - Samsung Verdict Reached  
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6978 times:

Looks like the jury has reached a verdict and will be delivering it shortly:

Quote:



A decision in the multi-billion dollar trial between Apple and Samsung has been reached, and will be announced shortly
.
Hanging in the balance are possible sales bans on phones and tablets on both sides, as well as a damages tally that ranges from millions to billions of dollars depending on how the jury comes down.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57...t-in-apple-samsung-trial-imminent/

I'm a bit surprised at the speed of the verdict as this has been a complex case - even the Verdict Sheet for he Jury to fill in is complicated.

196 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5251 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6963 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
I'm a bit surprised at the speed of the verdict as this has been a complex case - even the Verdict Sheet for he Jury to fill in is complicated.

I too am very surprised.
It is either a verdict all in favor of one side (or at most three bulk verdicts that cover each main point) or they answered each question in the Jury Document and that provided everything that was needed for the point by point verdict.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6950 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 1):
It is either a verdict all in favor of one side (or at most three bulk verdicts that cover each main point) or they answered each question in the Jury Document and that provided everything that was needed for the point by point verdict.

I saw the Jury Sheet on the internet and felt that it was going to be far easier to fill out if a general agreement was reached on the core issues.


User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6944 times:

Let's just hope that they'll at least strike a blow to software patents.

User currently onlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2828 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6940 times:

The verdict so far sounds complicated.

http://live.cnet.com/Event/Apple_vs_Samsung_verdict



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5251 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6925 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 4):
The verdict so far sounds complicated.

http://live.cnet.com/Event/Apple_vs_...rdict

A lot of "No'" so far. Not good for Apple so far....

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2828 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6924 times:

What is a "trade dress"?


The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6911 times:

Apple winning so far:

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/...-verdict-apple-samsung-patent-tria

A blog there, scroll from the bottom of the blog window


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2047 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6884 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 6):
What is a "trade dress"?

Basically the packaging of a product/what it look likes. So the color, shapes, whatever that customers use to distinguish the product, not the actual functional parts that determine how the products works.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6885 times:

It looks like Samsung pays Apple $1+ Billion and Apple pays Samsung zip all.

Considering that Apple is Samsung's biggest customer on the component side and has been taken to the cleaners by a jury it might be time for Samsung to start working out deals with Apple.


User currently onlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2828 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6864 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 9):
Considering that Apple is Samsung's biggest customer on the component side and has been taken to the cleaners by a jury it might be time for Samsung to start working out deals with Apple.

Why would Samsung do that?

"Apple is the dominant tablet maker and Samsung leads in smartphone sales"

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...sung-patent-dispute/1#.UDgOU6DFZpg

So, Samsung continues to sell/make more smartphones and Apple continues to make more tablets. They pay the fine and both companies continue to do what they do.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

How is it that, in 4 other countries Apple lost to Samsung and here's Samsung wins nothing.

I'm sorry something sits weirdly to me with that. A decision in hardly 3 weeks? and so one-sided?


As a man who encourages competition - this is really dumb (from both sides) - It seems that Tech companies have stopped inventing inventions, and started inventing patents. And then waste their time suing each other over it.

[Edited 2012-08-24 16:38:48]

User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6839 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 11):

How is it that, in 4 other countries Apple lost to Samsung and here's Samsung wins nothing.

I'm sorry something sits weirdly to me with that. A decision in hardly 3 weeks? and so one-sided?

Doesn't matter, really. This going to end in an appeals court and the Judge knew as much, not to mention her handling of the case didn't help matters at all.

Also, Apple now has to face Google backed by Motorola's patents who have a bit more meaning(and teeth) than mere rectangles with rounded corners and icons arranged in a grid.

[Edited 2012-08-24 16:56:32]

User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6832 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 12):
Doesn't matter, really. This going to end in an appeals court.

I know this - but it's all a bit silly really.

It's almost as if Boeing should sue Airbus because Airbus made a plane with 4 engines on it.


User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6824 times:

This case was going to be appealed from the beginning. Samsung has been at a massive disadvantage the entire case, not sure who's fault it was but they certainly were going to do badly.

Patent laws particularly in regard to technology these days are ridiculous. How can anyone come up with an idea when there is a good chance that in the thousands that the giants have, one of them could be vague enough to include your idea and hence you're up the creek. They were originally intended to encourage and protect innovators and now they do the complete opposite.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6820 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 13):
It's almost as if Boeing should sue Airbus because Airbus made a plane with 4 engines on it.

Blame the US Patent Office for granting them in the first place, completely ignoring prior art.


User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6812 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 15):

Blame the US Patent Office for granting them in the first place, completely ignoring prior art.

Quick someone tell Burger King to stop making Hamburgers, McDonalds will sue.

P.S. before some Apple fanatics - start yelling at me for being a fanboy - I own both Apple and Samsung products, and I think this whole thing is really dumb for both companies.

[Edited 2012-08-24 17:28:54]

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6796 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 10):
Why would Samsung do that?

Apple buys billions from Samsung every year. Apple is not looking in other directions, especially in displays. It is not hard, however, to see Apple working with other companies, like Sharp, who want the component business and will not shaft Apple after they get it.

BTW, Apple has worked vigorously with their component suppliers. They have, in the past, pre-paid for $4 Billion in components. They have delivered financing for shared facilities.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 11):
As a man who encourages competition - this is really dumb (from both sides) - It seems that Tech companies have stopped inventing inventions, and started inventing patents. And then waste their time suing each other over it.

If you like competition then look at Apple after Jobs came back. A company that was close to bankruptcy working to come back - and the iMac was the first product delivered. iMacs continue to be aggressive in the consumer market because the company invests in design. That is where the company competes

Same with other products. The iPad was not the first MP3 player but it was the most competitive because of the design.

Same with the iPhone.

Nothing I can think of in the industry represents a company competing more aggressively. ANd they do it on design, hardware and software.

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 13):
It's almost as if Boeing should sue Airbus because Airbus made a plane with 4 engines on it

Bit different in the mobile phone case. Look at the smart phones before the iPhone was released. There is nothing close on the market and the Blackberry was the leading designs.

Both Boeing and Airbus will have significant portfolios of patents, and they will use lawyers to defend those patents. There is an odd point about intellectual property - you defend it or you loose it.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 14):
Samsung has been at a massive disadvantage the entire case

Samsung put themselves at a massive disadvantage by copying Apple's products as much as they could.

Now Samsung can go back in the labs and develop products without the Apple crutch.


User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6781 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
Bit different in the mobile phone case. Look at the smart phones before the iPhone was released. There is nothing close on the market and the Blackberry was the leading designs.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6779 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
Samsung put themselves at a massive disadvantage by copying Apple's products as much as they could.

Too bad the claim falls flat on its face when some of the phones awarded most of the damages look nothing like an iPhone:

Samsung Prevail:


Samsung Infuse 4g


Samsung Mesmerize


Samsung Replenish


Samsung Transform


Silly to say the least

On top of that, the Judge refusal of allowing Samsung to use key evidence of prior art on their behalf. Like I said, the Judge gave a guaranteed appeal to Samsung so I doubt Apple will see a single dime from Samsung.


User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11925 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6753 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
Samsung put themselves at a massive disadvantage by copying Apple's products as much as they could.

Yeah, damn those rounded corners!

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
Now Samsung can go back in the labs and develop products without the Apple crutch.

Talk to us after the appeal.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1529 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6745 times:

Also from TechDirt.com

Quote:
Minor update: After the rush, the judge came back to point out two problems with the verdict -- including the jury awarding damages in cases where it had not found infringement. While this will be corrected and won't change the results much, it certainly suggests that the jury rushed through this and may not have taken this particularly seriously. When you start talking about the numbers being thrown around in damages here, at some point, it must start to feel like play money. But it's a pretty big indictment of the jury itself that it would make a mistake like this. It raises significant questions about how careful they were in getting to a verdict vs. how quickly they wanted to be done in time for the weekend.

Round 2 is going to be more fun. Well, at least for Samsung.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6705 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 18):

A WinTel "tablet" (computer without a keyboard) was supposed to be the cat's zzz. My wife was asked to complete a survey on one in her Oncologist's office. Worked, but not that well. It was better than my (10 minute) experience with Win 2.0, but not by much. At least it didn't crash after 10 minutes.

But it didn't have the impact on the target markets that the iPad has. It was not that great a product because it was a WinTel computer without a keyboard.

MS didn't steal anything from Apple on their "surface". They have paid app developers delivering on iOS to bring some apps to Surface, but it doesn't look like a winner to me. More like the HP tablet that had to be cleared out at $100.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 19):
On top of that, the Judge refusal of allowing Samsung to use key evidence of prior art on their behalf.

The Judge refused "evidence" from both sides. She also set 25 hours for each side - there was no way that she was going to allow this trial to go on for months. Both sides also had to trim down their claims.

The result was still a complex case, but one the jurist could decide on within a reasonably short period of time. Juries

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 18):
Like I said, the Judge gave a guaranteed appeal to Samsung so I doubt Apple will see a single dime from Samsung.

Both sides had appeal arguments developing as the trial progressed. The biggest issue Samsung faces is the ability to reverse the findings of the jury, as opposed to the dollar amount and potential import bans.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 20):
Yeah, damn those rounded corners!

Samsung spent too much of their 25 hours on that. Sure paid off for them.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 20):
Talk to us after the appeal.

Multiple appeals, without a doubt.

Two minor issues: does Samsung have to put up a bond with the appeal? I know other states (like Texas) demands a 10% deposit. And in some states the jury award generates a nice rate of interest. I think 10% was the Texas level. Both combines to motivate Texaco to pay up and forget a $10 Billion judgement some years back.

Samsung can afford that bond from the profits they earn from Apple's component business, but can they afford a product ban when they can negotiate with Apple?

Quoting Acheron (Reply 21):
Round 2 is going to be more fun. Well, at least for Samsung.

That depends on how long it takes to get the appeal reviewed and how much business they loose daily from any import bans they get hit with.

And any assumption of a "win" at that level needs to be compared with the Samsung lawyer's confidence going into this trial.

Samsung executives would be derelict if they didn't already have the design labs and programmers working overtime for replacement products.

There may be other trials, but the most important jury that Samsung will face has delivered their judgement. Fighting other battles while having bans in the US market is not in their long term interests. Time for Samsung's CEO to pick up the phone and talk to Apple's CEO. Both CEOs know what it will take to resolve all issues.


User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11925 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6694 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 22):
A WinTel "tablet" (computer without a keyboard) was supposed to be the cat's zzz.

Whether it works at all or not has little impact on patent law, but you knew that...

A co-worker just got a patent on an idea that every part of our company including our own has refused to implement, because it was "not innovative"...

Keep towing that Apple barge, don't let us stop you....



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2038 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6685 times:

Wow it feels like the 90s again, Apple suing like crazy, everything going to appealed indefinitely and Apple looking stupid while doing so.

At least in the 90s one had slight sympathy for them, since MS wasn't even copying them well - but Samsung, HTC and Google Android have surpassed Apple's iOS in quality.

Either way, the person paying for this is: you.

The consumer.

Here's my Nostradamus predicion: Samsung will end up paying very little to nothing after appeal.



Tonight we fly
25 Post contains links and images Acheron : Not really. Judge Koh allowed last minute evidence from Apple but not from Samsung. Not to mention the Magistrate Judge tried to screw Samsung over S
26 Post contains links StarAC17 : Wasn't this tried in California?? It is where Apple is headquartered and there is not a lot to be done to sway the opinion of the jury regardless. I
27 MSPNWA : I find the verdict ridiculous, but whatever the end result, I'll vote with my wallet. I've given Apple a try, been unimpressed, and after this mess I'
28 Pyrex : This case was lost for Samsung even before it reached the Court. A jury trial in a case brought by Apple in the Bay Area? I have plenty of friends wh
29 tugger : Yes, this is really just the "setting the stage: " part of the process, the real part of the process won't occur until the appeals court rules. Then
30 Klaus : Motorola's patents are mostly worthless for litigation since they are predominantly part of official standards and thus subject to FRAND conditions.
31 Acheron : Sucks for Apple they aren't using FRAND patents this time around. For not being a "computer" it can store pictures, movies and had an ethernet port.
32 Klaus : What are you trying to say? Apple does of course use FRAND patents since accessing inevitable standards by necessity involves FRAND patents – that
33 Maverick623 : There are two reasons why Apple has done so well: 1) Their marketing department is probably the best marketing department since Don Draper's. They kn
34 Klaus : Their direct marketing is actually very subdued in comparison to their competitors. >90% of their actual marketing is making the actual users of t
35 tugger : But neither of those can be considered to have been "non obvious". Tugg
36 Revelation : I don't think that is any different for Apple's competitors. We've had enough threads here to show that their competitors get a lot of word of mouth.
37 Klaus : What are you trying to say?
38 Klaus : "A lot" is not a real quantitative metric. And actual user satisfaction ratings are substantially lower, which is reflected by much lower user retent
39 D L X : Why? Juries don't ruminate on patent decisions for days and days. This came out as fast as expected. Basically, it's what a product looks like, when
40 Post contains images tugger : A one element of a patent is that it is "non-obvious". I know I may be lambasted for using this as an example but pretty much every sci-fi geek in th
41 D L X : I'd never lambast you, tugger! Star Trek was certainly one of the most innovative things in American history, in one way. But you know what else was?
42 Post contains links Ken777 : BFD. I applied for a provisional patent (it costs $100 and is automatic) some years back. I didn't follow through with it when my wife got a Dx of AL
43 Pyrex : Maybe it has to do with their market practices that make Monsanto look like nuns?
44 D L X : This is probably a problem with the mainstream press writing about legal proceedings, but in ALL cases, the judges suggest that the parties negotiate
45 Asturias : No, not really. In the 90s MS was copying Apple's OS, no question. To add insult to injury, MS did a really botched job at it too. Which meant the ma
46 Post contains links Acheron : That Google are using non-essential patents to sue Apple. Patents which include the notification system Apple copied. That didn't stop Cisco from sui
47 Post contains links Ken777 : Their design department is the best in the industry. It is the entire department, not just Jonathan Ive. The hardware engineers are also outstanding,
48 Flighty : This is probably true. However, the world is full of good creative design people. Executives and finance departments often do not appreciate value or
49 D L X : Interesting theory. In your practice, is it common to find gullible judges? And now you're just not being objective. You can spot differences, sure.
50 Asturias : ... and screwed its OS up indefinitely, which allowed MS to finally match and surpass Apple's OS in quality. Windows 95 was still a decade behind Mac
51 Revelation : It surely isn't, but do we want to argue over numbers? Your statement was that Apple got more word of mouth support than their competitors, and I don
52 Post contains images Klaus : The Star Trek "PADD"'s most remarkable feature to me always was that every user seemed to need a whole stack of them to do actual work since they see
53 Post contains links Ken777 : Of course, just like the world is full of very talented musicians. But how many really get an opportunity to excel? Catch a Broadway musical on tour
54 Post contains links and images Acheron : Isn't that kind of the point of being a lawyer?. Convincing the judge that your version of the story is the real one?. A bit simplistic, I know. The
55 Post contains images CXB77L : It hardly seems fair to restrict the time each party has to present their case, particularly a complex case such as a patent dispute. I do not agree.
56 AirPacific747 : At least I now know that I will never buy another Apple product because of the way they are trying to kill competition. I am not going to support them
57 Revelation : And the inevitable response: If Xerox had been as lawsuit-happy as Apple is now being, there might not be an Apple! It sounds like you haven't looked
58 Klaus : No. These are all marginal differences only within the primary concept which the iPhone introduced. Remember the shock and even widespread ridicule w
59 AirPacific747 : So is Samsung, since Apple STOLE some of their ideas and used their patents. Just like Apple stole the roll down notification menu from Android.
60 Klaus : All caps doesn't make that claim any more real either. The amount of actual respective development work done by the two companies has been exposed qu
61 AirPacific747 : Neither does bold fonts.. The case isn't over yet since it will be appealed. So I know you really want to make Apple stand out as positive as possibl
62 Post contains links racko : Quote from a juror: "Like the trade dress -- once you determine Samsung violated the trade dress, the flat screen with the bezel...then you go down th
63 speedygonzales : I you are a developer yourself, you should loathe this riduculous competition-stifling verdict.
64 Post contains links AirPacific747 : Just thought I'd toss this in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1s_PybOuY0&feature=player_embedded and this: http://www.xda-developers.com/androi..
65 Post contains links and images Acheron : What is one of the most space efficient way to arrange a group of icons?. A grid. The patent that covers this dates back to 2009 and was filed in 200
66 Post contains links and images Ken777 : The fact that the jury included engineers, and one who had obtained a patent, does not invalidate the jury or their decision. The attorneys for BOTH
67 Revelation : Right, but their CEO wasn't quoted as saying he was going to crush Apple if it took every penny that Xerox had. It confirms they are making more than
68 Ken777 : That's because the Xerox CEO knew that they made a far bigger profit from the payment Apple made to review their work than Xerox made delivering a so
69 tugger : No it's not, but a patent also needs to be "non-obvious" and I am just talking about the shape and the expectation of what it would should be. The iP
70 Aesma : Selling components to Apple makes money but that doesn't further your brand, I'm sure Samsung is far happier selling their own products.
71 tugger : The smartest thing is to be able to do both! It improves your volume and increase your cash flow which allows for further investment in more innovati
72 Post contains links and images Aesma : I was into PDAs a long time ago (even if as a teen I couldn't afford one), and my third mobile phone in 2002 was an HTC Canary, that was called a smar
73 tugger : Yes, and I see I forgot to include my favorite quote from Steve Jobs: "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." And on Wiki they no
74 Ken777 : I believe that there are a lot of patents out there for "obvious" products that were not obvious when invented. Look at the heart stints. Scaffolding
75 D L X : That is not how a patent works. The CLAIMS of a patent define its boundaries. If the accused device has the specific points of novelty that are in th
76 Post contains images Acheron : Not my fault if you buy into every doctored image out there that favors Apple that shows the application menu like the home screen. But wasn't Apple'
77 Klaus : In addition to that, the design patent for the iPad was filed in 2004 – years before even the iPhone was presented and had primed everybody's expec
78 tugger : Hmmm, I can't say I agree with that and especially your analogy, but I do know what you are saying. Specifically regarding the form and shape of the
79 Post contains links and images CXB77L : Because a time limit shouldn't be arbitrarily set; it should be set at a reasonable level so that each party can reasonably present their full case.
80 AirPacific747 : Famous last words... Maybe? I don't know. Does that make it morally correct? Just saying Apple steals just as much as any other company. Perhaps true
81 Aesma : Samsung sells countless products so they're probably far more copied than Apple. About the 25 hours limit, where it seems really strange is when you c
82 autothrust : Keep on telling that, maybe one day you will believe it yourself. ( my Iphone 4 is crap, the home button stopped working after 3 weeks) Google should
83 Klaus : It's my own first-hand experience, and according to broader user surveys that is the dominant experience among most users, substantially exceeding th
84 Post contains links and images racko : For Klaus:
85 Revelation : To me, the whole idea of patents for "ornamental design" is crap. One way to unburden the USPO is to get rid of them. Me too. I owned various Palm de
86 casinterest : I agree, but everyone has to remember since Amazon was able to patent the "1-Click" the patent process to me has been highly suspect. It also means t
87 Cerecl : The same argument can be applied to 777 looking only marginally different to a A330 or vice versa. Should Airbus sue Boeing? Mimic the iPhone? Seriou
88 Revelation : As is video. There is no good reason why your cable provider should need to pipe in hundreds of channels of video when you can only watch one at a ti
89 Post contains images D L X : Not my fault you need a new prescription. That is not a patent issue. That is the trade dress issue. How many patents have you reviewed? Over 99% of
90 Acheron : Glad to know you didn't bother to see the picture. Tells me I shouldn't waste my time. Like the guy's patent reference aren't really that related wha
91 Ken777 : Samsung has plenty of cash to develop new products. They can, and probably will, invest more money into R&D for competing with Apple in the iOS m
92 Post contains links and images D L X : I look at the picture, and I look at the patent, and I see that the claims of the patent read on the picture. What do you see? And why don't you see
93 Post contains links Asturias : Best decision Apple ever made in the 80s was firing Steve Jobs. Lest the Mac would have been a Fisher-Price computer indefinitely. The Mac OS didn't
94 Ken777 : I actually used a Mac in the late 80's in a company with several hundred employees. We had both Word & Excel at a GUI standard that wasn't matche
95 Asturias : After Steve Jobs was fired, since the 'biggest' Mac under his watch was the Macintosh 512k, completely locked down, not upgradable and non-standard c
96 AirPacific747 : Given that Apple seemed to start this war and also given their statement after the latest trial. It is clear that they think they are the inventors o
97 Ken777 : Which is why Apple was a few months from bankruptcy when Jobs got back? Apple didn't need to make a "proper computer" - they just needed processor de
98 zckls04 : Thanks for the explanation- very interesting!
99 Aesma : I just saw on euronews that the judge could triple the award, what's up with that ? How come you can't have a real appeal (aka a retrial) ? Here it's
100 Ken777 : The Federal Law provides for the judge increasing the Jury Award if the jury finds that the violations were willful. The Jury did find Samsung's infr
101 TheRedBaron : I admire fellow aneters their patience regarding all the hate Apple Receives . As a person who worked very closely with apple for the past 25 years, I
102 Asturias : Sculley left in 93, Jobs returned in 97 - unless you're willfully ignoring the fact that there was a long time between Sculley departing and Jobs ret
103 TheRedBaron : mmmmm how weird, another lets bash Steve Jobs, thread..... I am really surprised. I wonder what they will come up with the next Iphone and also I bet
104 Ken777 : Let's see: Apple had basically had two types of CEOs: Steve Jobs and everyone else. The "everyone else" included Sculley who delivered a "real comput
105 Aesma : The market is full of sheep. I'd say that Samsung has not much more to lose so why not continue the fight ? What would Apple want to negotiate anyway
106 Post contains images Asturias : Insecure much? Right, much like Apple has had basically two types of supporters: Rabid ones and everyone else. Gotcha. Yeah, they expanded on that ..
107 Post contains images AirPacific747 : But compared to how much their shares have gone up since they introduced the Galaxy series, I'd say it's more than worth it to continue producing gre
108 Post contains links David L : It was the Radio Shack (Tandy in the UK) TRS-80. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80 I had one. Well... I had a Hong Kong-made clone called the Video
109 Revelation : It definitely was in IBM's interest for the PPC to take off. They, like every other vendor, needed a high volume part to help pay down the multi-bill
110 Post contains images tugger : I guess I am talking about the entire "look" of it. I understand what you are saying and am certainly not trying to be "revisionist" or deny that it
111 TheRedBaron : Bashing Steve Jobs Is like Bashing Salvador Dali, whether you like it or not both are dead, And you can do anything about it…. it doesn't make me i
112 Post contains images Asturias : Whoa - I repeat: Insecure much? As for what you're whining about; pointing out the maaaaany flaws of your dead idol isn't bashing. Not at all. As a h
113 Post contains images Ken777 : Might be because IBM handed MS the PC market on a silver platter and MS finally delivered an OS similar to Apple's - 10 years after the Mac was intro
114 Aesma : So Samsung saw Apple's products and figured they could do better, or cheaper, or both, and they did.
115 Post contains images AirPacific747 : And in a less arrogant way where they don't pretend like they are the new messiahs in the world.
116 Klaus : Samsung's internal mails and memos exposed in the trial very clearly show that they deliberately copied Apple's products down to the details without
117 AirPacific747 : Italic fonts doesn't make your statement more valid either. You mean the only two things remaining: cheaper and better. Your reasoning is just as wro
118 Klaus : No, they just make the valid points stand out more. Without any valid points in the first place, any text decoration is entirely pointless. Whether y
119 TheRedBaron : LOL but you don't really hate Steve right? I wonder how many flawed persons you can find with his record or achievements, I bet you also hate pixar p
120 Post contains images Asturias : Nah, that's just blaming the competition on one's own incompetence. I don't buy it, nor was Windows 95 in any way similar (except in a superficial an
121 Asturias : Nah I don't hate Jobs, never knew the man personally. Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, as it was said - there are a handful of very
122 Post contains images AirPacific747 : So stop posting Now you're using bold fonts again. Doesn't help either. Anyway, so what if Samsung copied Apple? You keep babbling about that. How ab
123 Post contains links Acheron : Thanks for the lesson on how to read a patent. Too bad you are too busy being a lawyer to see this from the tech side of things and compounded by you
124 Ken777 : They just didn't worry about the legal issues of copying at a level that infringed on others patents. As far as quality goes, from the Samsung produc
125 TheRedBaron : I dont get it when people get so angry about guys who make things change or invent new stuff, the guys that see a mirror and think " I bet I can make
126 AirPacific747 : I guess that is why Apple disregards so many patents itself.
127 Aesma : So tell me, do you really think that Apple lost sales because of these infringements ? After all, you spend so much time telling us Apple products are
128 Ken777 : Apple actually pays cash out for patents, like a lot of other companies. There are some battles with FRAND patents, but ripping other companies off o
129 Post contains images Klaus : You can't actually have looked at the real thing. The Star had a very rudimentary GUI which was – if anything – harder to use than many text-only
130 Post contains images AirPacific747 : It's a two way street, so stop thinking Apple is so innocent. Which is both good and bad. Makes it cheap to buy second hand. Cool story I guess that'
131 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Got to love this!! Samsung Rumoured To Have Paid $1billion Apple Fine In Pennies!!! this is the article: It's being reported that 30 trucks filled wit
132 Post contains links luv2fly : A few clicks shows this is false...... http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/samsung.asp
133 DocLightning : Yes, except the UI on Star Trek was laughable. As was the physical design. The big hold-up was designing a reliable touch-screen. The best touch-cont
134 Post contains links Acheron : Which had more to do with the maturity of the technology at the time. Had the iPhone been launched around the same time than the others, it would hav
135 Klaus : That has long been the cardinal belief of many manufacturers: You only have to throw together a bunch of hardware components, stir three times and so
136 Post contains links and images Asturias : Stupid things Apple fanbois say Part 1: http://youtu.be/FFhjDX-DUew Part 2: http://youtu.be/kTTSsB92L_s
137 Ken777 : Google had a bit of a head start on the iPhone as Eric Schmidt was on the Apple Board. He did get kicked off after it was obvious he was passing on i
138 Post contains links Revelation : There are many cases where "unleashing a disruptive technology" has caused innovative and useful technologies to emerge. Think for example of how the
139 Asturias : Hahahaha No. Not even close. But keep telling yourself that and in the meanwhile, perhaps you'd like to point out anyone at Apple (Steve Jobs or othe
140 Post contains links Acheron : In a related note, Apple gets a patent for technology to block the recording or taking of pictures in certain areas. http://mashable.com/2012/09/09/ap
141 Post contains images Klaus : The lone innovator approach is simply not feasible for projects of that magnitude, and I'm saying that as a somewhat competent developer who has, in
142 Ken777 : Read the book. There are a lot of places where cameras are not allowed. Federal Building can be right at the top of the list. When I went to a Region
143 Post contains links tugger : Interesting news coming out that if the iPhone 5 (whatever it is actually called) has LTE support Samsung may bring suit against Apple for it. http://
144 Post contains images Klaus : Samsung is already under investigation for abuse of UMTS standards-related patents. Should they get caught abusing LTE-related patents in the same wa
145 Ken777 : This is going to be one of the interesting parts of tomorrow's announcement. If it isn't addressed in the announcement then I would expect one of App
146 Asturias : I notice Apple hasn't sued Google for anything. Ah you read it in a book, so it must be true. What book are you talking about and perhaps you'd just
147 Klaus : Apple has chosen Samsung as an easier and more obvious target first, with their concrete products, concrete profits and concrete evidence for their i
148 Asturias : In your words you're claiming that Android isn't a concrete product, doesn't have concrete profits and Apple doesn't have any concrete evidence that
149 Klaus : Android indeed isn't a concrete product, particularly none that is actually sold for profit on the open market, which is what litigation (and particu
150 Asturias : Ahahahhahaha
151 Klaus : Just answer this: Where can I buy Android from Google?
152 Asturias : Where can I buy iOS from Apple?
153 Klaus : iOS is sold directly to end users by its manufacturer as a component of every iOS device. Android, on the other hand, was not available from Google o
154 Revelation : Your post is correct in the main point, although it should be pointed out that there were ways to buy phones directly from Google before Google purcha
155 Acheron : You stil can buy Nexus devices in the Google Play store, as far as I know.
156 Klaus : You're right. Because of the relatively low sales volume and the less blatant infringement by the Google-sold Nexus devices Apple probably chose to f
157 tugger : This stuff is as "entertaining" as a train wreck. It's gotten to the point of absurdity and is impacting the development of the industry. I know you
158 Klaus : Not at all, actually. I'm thoroughly disgusted by shameless ripoffs of other people's genuine hard work, however. I'm with you there, most of the way
159 Asturias : I don't want the device, I want the OS, now answer the question. So because of some arbitrary rule you made up in your mind, you somehow have a point
160 tugger : The answer is both iOS and Android are similar in their path to market: Both come pre-installed with the device and any upgrade/updates come after th
161 Klaus : iOS is part of a product which is sold to end users in large volume, which opens Apple to litigation for damages if there is a plausible infringement
162 Post contains images Asturias : Very true. So iOS is not a concrete product. Thus by your own internet lawyering, irrelevant and can't infringe nor be infringed upon. And yet it is
163 Post contains images Klaus : You're really trying hard to muddy the waters, aren't you? iOS is being sold to paying customers by Apple. Android is being sold to paying customers
164 D L X : This is probably a non-event. Apple gets its LTE chips from another company (I'm pretty sure it's Qualcomm) and that company has a license to make th
165 Asturias : Speaking of muddying the waters... obviously you're arguing against your own made up statements. Whether or not the Nexus is sold in smaller quantity
166 Klaus : When deciding on actual litigation, scale and depth of infringement do matter. And Samsung by far exceeds Google on both counts. But no worries if yo
167 D L X : Klaus, you're wrong here, and here's why. Apple could have sued Google over Android. The damages could have covered every instance of Android, absolu
168 Klaus : Samsung is infringing Apple's IP directly and is causing direct fiscal damage to Apple. That is a very different issue to Google providing software t
169 Asturias : Not that I mind telling you, but you're wrong. The Samsung trial was a farce, and has yet to be appealed. There's no groundwork for anything yet. But
170 Post contains images D L X : So was Google, and likely in the exact same way as Samsung. For the patents where Android alone constituted infringement, Samsung could 100% fill in
171 Asturias : Nope. That actually made me laugh, it was so predictable. Yeah, it was pretty farcical. The amount that Samsung was to pay, the biased jury and the p
172 Klaus : Google was not reaping direct profits from their infringement in quite the same way (they didn't actually manufacture any devices themselves) and not
173 D L X : Well considering the lack of analysis behind that statement, and your general contempt towards Apple before this verdict, the shoe fits. What was far
174 Asturias : I generally don't offer any analysis when people on the internet accuse me of some sillyness that stems only from their own imagination. I have no co
175 D L X : That believe it or not does not matter when it comes to damages. Remember back when the RIAA was going after college kids for posting MP3's? Almost n
176 Klaus : I didn't say that. But I expect that in a jury trial it might matter to the question whether there was a deliberate infringement at all, even if poss
177 D L X : That's an EXCELLENT point you make, but I have a feeling that Apple and their attorneys did not know about the self-incriminating emails until after
178 Revelation : I agree but fail to see how it can come about, because no one in the chain (Google, handset maker, carrier) have a real incentive to do it. The only
179 CXB77L : While I agree to the extent that there was, in my view, an appearance of bias, I cannot agree with your assertion as to the importance of a patent. B
180 Post contains images Asturias : I'm not picking sides, at all. I give credit where credit is due, if anything I confess I am slightly biased *towards* Apple. In the sense that I'm h
181 CXB77L : What an ignorant comment. In simple terms, rather than stifling innovation, patents do the opposite by protecting the inventors - the real free think
182 Post contains links JJJ : Now it's rather the opposite, by allowing patents to be so generic you are actually stifling invention. Here's a good read on the legal clusterf*ck t
183 Post contains images Asturias : No not really, it's quite the educated comment. But this thread isn't about the validity of patents in a general sense. No no, I wouldn't assume so,
184 Post contains images D L X : No, it really was a completely full-throated ignorant comment. You may think you are educated on this, but that comment was far far from what one wel
185 Asturias : No, it really was a completely educated and reasoned comment. You'll excuse me for ignoring your 'internet-lawyer' posture. You may think you are edu
186 Post contains links Acheron : They do, apparently. The company who made the GooPhone i5 patented it and plan to sue Apple over the iPhone 5. http://asia.cnet.com/goophone-i5-man..
187 D L X : No they are not. As much as I hate to slam a whole country, China is home to probably the worlds' No. 1 copy artists. The lack of intellectual proper
188 Acheron : How about every interview where the moron of a Foreman decided to run off his mouth?.
189 CXB77L : What the author calls "patent trolling" is what I call exercising one's legal rights. Now, I don't have an engineering background, and when the artic
190 Post contains links Asturias : On software it is glaringly obvious but hardware patents suffer much the same problems. Here's someone who innovated immensely (multitouch), basicall
191 Post contains links Acheron : Software patent can be(and usually is) extremely generic and vague, as shown during the Oracle vs. Google case with Oracle. http://en.swpat.org/wiki/
192 D L X : I'm really at a loss. I don't know how to explain it any clearer than that. If you understand it, you'll understand why your arguments about the bana
193 Post contains links and images Ken777 : It is certainly not a physical product If you don't want the iPhone then you'll have to buy the iPad. The only way you can but the OS is to buy the c
194 Post contains links D L X : Another Apple win, this time in front of the US International Trade Commission, where Judge Gildea has found that Apple did not violate Samsung's pate
195 CXB77L : Interesting ... From the article you linked to ... I can't wait to see Apple get done for LTE patent infringement.
196 D L X : 1) Why are you rooting for Apple to lose? 2) It looks pretty unlikely that Apple will be found infringing since they buy the LTE chips from a company
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