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Lincoln's Last Grasp - The 2015 MKR Sports Sedan?  
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 18908 times:

2015 Lincoln MKR sedan (official Lincoln photo - concept vehicle)


Lincoln's MKS sedan is a sales failure. Ford's luxury division is only selling approximately 1,000 MKS sedans a month, while Cadillac is selling five times as many CTS sedans and the new XTS has been deemed a hit by the auto press, and Cadillac will soon parlay the XTS' success here in the USA and sell the model in both China and Europe (as an Opel, apparently).

Ford now realizes that no one (besides the Florida retiree market) will pay $50.000 USD for a overly chromed and leather-lined Ford Taurus sedan, even one with a 350 horsepower twin-turbo V-6, as the MKS offers - and the Taurus offers as well, also with all-wheel drive standard in the Taurus model. The new Mondeo-based Lincoln MKZ at least looks a lot different than its sexy Aston-ish styled 2013 Ford Fusion cousin. However, the uniquely styled MKZ has polarizing "love it or hate it" stying - the massive chrome grille (which Lincoln designers have said is supposed to look like an eagle's spread wings) just hasn't caught on thus far with the auto press or luxury buyers.

Lincoln is again on the ropes as a distinct brand, as Ford suffers tremendous losses (over $1 billion USD) recently from it's struggling European operations. In a move to cut costs, Lincoln may become collateral damage as Ford tries to stop the flow of Ford of Europe's red ink.

But, if Lincoln can hang on until the 2015 model year, the above-pictured MKR "suicide" doored sedan may be the savior of the brand. Lincoln desperately wants to utilize a stretched version of the all-new global 2015 Ford Mustang's RWD platform for a MKR sports sedan. The next-gen Mustang will weigh about 500 to 600 pounds less than the current Mustang, offer an independent rear-suspension (replacing the current model's ancient and ill-behaved live axle), and offer turbocharged Eco-Boost 4 and 6 cylinder engines, while any V-8 powered Mustangs may be limited-edition Shelby models due to tightening CAFE fuel economy standards. Lincoln would like to use an all-wheel drive version of the Mustang chassis for the MKR with an eight-speed automatic transmission (sourced from ZF likely) and the Eco-Boosted engines to compete with the new Cadillac ATS and the usual 3-series and C-class variants. A light hybrid version is also likely, if Ford decides to spend the money and go forward with the MKR.

Source: http://blog.caranddriver.com/lincoln...a-study-in-fords-brand-discipline/

[Edited 2012-08-26 19:45:37]

[Edited 2012-08-26 19:56:28]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5506 posts, RR: 28
Reply 1, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 18853 times:

Oh, for goodness' sake Ford, build it!

Lincoln is a proud marque, with many exceptional vehicles in its history. Preserve and build!



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39834 posts, RR: 74
Reply 2, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 18809 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Lincoln's MKS sedan is a sales failure.


We were saying that several years ago with Ford made this announcement.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Lincoln is again on the ropes as a distinct brand,


I blame CAFE.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
But, if Lincoln can hang on until the 2015 model year, the above-pictured MKR "suicide" doored sedan may be the savior of the brand.


Not going to happen.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Lincoln desperately wants to utilize a stretched version of the all-new global 2015 Ford Mustang's RWD platform


They already did that with the Mark VII and the LS.
Both of those were shared with the Mustang.
The Mark VII was one of their most successful models ever produced.

They need to go forward with the Continental concept. Hopefully with a regime change in Washington, those CAFE laws will get flushed down the toilet to it's rightful place.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Lincoln designers have said is supposed to look like an eagle's spread wings


The Edsel had a better looking grille with it's spreading....well.....never mind.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15730 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18801 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Lincoln's MKS sedan is a sales failure.

A fact that surprises absolutely nobody outside of FoMoCo itself. And I'm sure a lot of insiders are self aware enough to know it's a dog.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
the new XTS has been deemed a hit by the auto press,

God knows why that is. Have any of them driven a 5 Series? Plus it looks like a Fusion somebody smashed into a wall.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
But, if Lincoln can hang on until the 2015 model year, the above-pictured MKR "suicide" doored sedan may be the savior of the brand.

A rear wheel drive sedan based off the Mustang platform is exactly what Lincoln needs...in 2010.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
I blame CAFE.

That's not why. Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, et. al. haven't had any problems turning out a decent product. Yes, CAFE is stupid and pointless, but it's equally stupid and pointless for everybody.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 18784 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
I blame CAFE.

Why, other manufacturers manage well within it's regulations.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
That's not why. Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, et. al. haven't had any problems turning out a decent product.

Well said, Ford could do a decent job if they made the effort.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39834 posts, RR: 74
Reply 5, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 18771 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
That's not why. Mercedes, BMW, Lexus



Prestigious brands where the cost is already high and they don't mind the paying the extra CAFE penalty.
Ford has many commercial class vehicles in their fleet sold in the US that drags down there CAFE average.
Mercedes and BMW aren't fooling around with front-drive either.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15730 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 18760 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
Ford could do a decent job if they made the effort.

The Ecoboost isn't a bad engine, it's just in mediocre cars. Frankly if they could just use slightly retuned versions of the Mustang engines in a Lincoln sedan they'd be alright. A tire melting competitor for the CTS-V would be nice.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Prestigious brands where the cost is already high and they don't mind the paying the extra CAFE penalty.

CAFE was passed in 1975 when Cadillac and Lincoln still had some prestige. They still, despite all of their efforts, have some prestige now among people who came of age when the prestige was warranted. And there was no Lexus or really any Japanese luxury cars for that matter.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Ford has many commercial class vehicles in their fleet sold in the US that drags down there CAFE average.

The rest of the world has clearly suffered from having to use Mercedes, BMWs, and Audis as taxis and police cars.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Mercedes and BMW aren't fooling around with front-drive either.

That's part of where Lincoln and Cadillac go wrong. Who other than the AARP crowd would seriously consider a Cadillac XTS in a world that also features the E Class?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39834 posts, RR: 74
Reply 7, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 18750 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
CAFE was passed in 1975 when Cadillac and Lincoln still had some prestige.


CAFE laws then were not that strict.
The law is the reason we got the Versailles and Seville.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
The rest of the world has clearly suffered from having to use Mercedes, BMWs, and Audis as taxis and police cars.


Those aren't sold in the US.
Most cargo vans and trucks are Fords in the US.
Ford had the lowest CAFE ratings for many years. Now that the Panther platform and Econoline van is out of production, their CAFE numbers may go higher.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
The Ecoboost isn't a bad engine, it's just in mediocre cars. Frankly if they could just use slightly retuned versions of the Mustang engines in a Lincoln sedan they'd be alright. A tire melting competitor for the CTS-V would be nice.


Would have been great to have one in the LS if it was still around. That was a great sedan that Lincoln neglected to market aggressively.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 18730 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Mercedes and BMW aren't fooling around with front-drive either.

They are, Mercedes will most likely sell the A & B classes in the US and BMW is selling MINI's, plus next year BMW will launch it's own FWD competitor to Mercedes B class, it also looks like it will come to the US.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7517 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (1 year 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 18682 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
The new Mondeo-based Lincoln MKZ at least looks a lot different than its sexy Aston-ish styled 2013 Ford Fusion cousin. However, the uniquely styled MKZ has polarizing "love it or hate it" stying - the massive chrome grille (which Lincoln designers have said is supposed to look like an eagle's spread wings) just hasn't caught on thus far with the auto press or luxury buyers.

I don't believe that the 2013 MKZ has gone on sale just yet. Only time will tell whether it will be a hit or a dud.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Ford now realizes that no one (besides the Florida retiree market) will pay $50.000 USD for a overly chromed and leather-lined Ford Taurus sedan, even one with a 350 horsepower twin-turbo V-6, as the MKS offers - and the Taurus offers as well, also with all-wheel drive standard in the Taurus model.

In other news, dung don't flow uphill. When the MKS first rolled out (as a 2009); I was of the first ones on here that predicted that the car would be an epic failure. It was a failure for several reasons:

1. FWD-based. While that may be okay for either the cheaper brand(s) (Ford in this case) or even for its smaller size models (granted, that could one be open for debate); it is not okay for one's full-size flagship model.

2. Confused marketing: some at Lincoln say it was launched to ultimately replace the Town Car (which it ultimately did, for now) while others at Lincoln simulataneously stated that the MKS was supposed to be an in-between car in terms of sizes... bigger than a MKZ but smaller than a Town Car.

3. It's bizzare styling cues and roofline created less interior room and trunk space than its Taurus & Sable (it was still around then) cousins. Granted, the 2010 Taurus revamp compromised interior and trunk space as well (compared to the 2009 model) but it at least some out there actually like the looks of the 2010 and later Taurus.

4. The MKS is the first 'full-size' Lincoln produced that was not larger/longer than any of its Ford/Mercury counterparts. While many past Lincolns shared components and platforms w/their Ford/Mercury counterparts; traditionally, Lincoln always made it a point to offer their model in a larger size. Even the final Town Cars featured a longer wheelbase (117.4") than the final Crown Vics/Grand Marquis (114.4"). When one bought a full-size Lincoln, part of that higher price meant that one was getting a larger (and usually roomier) car as well. It's worth noting that Cadillac followed this practice as well in having all their full-size models larger than their Buick (& Oldsmobile) counterparts.

5. Lincoln adopting alpha-numeric names for all of its vehicles didn't help as well.

BTW, I don't believe that all Taurus models are AWD; just the SHO model.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
I blame CAFE.

Why, other manufacturers manage well within it's regulations.

Many of their larger higher-end models (that drag down their CAFE ratings) have a gas-guzzler tax slapped on the sticker prices.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Lincoln desperately wants to utilize a stretched version of the all-new global 2015 Ford Mustang's RWD platform

They already did that with the Mark VII and the LS.
Both of those were shared with the Mustang.
The Mark VII was one of their most successful models ever produced.

I wouldn't go that far, the Mark VII had a rocky start for its first few years. It wasn't until Lincoln stuffed a H.O. 5.0 V8 (shared w/the Mustang GT of the era) under the hood and GM mistakenly redid it E-cars in 1986 that people started noticing (& buying) the Mark VII.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
CAFE was passed in 1975 when Cadillac and Lincoln still had some prestige.


CAFE laws then were not that strict.
The law is the reason we got the Versailles and Seville.

Agreed, the current CAFE standards/mandates aren't your father's CAFE standards. The first CAFE milestone was 18 mpg set for the 1978 model year.

Back to the 2015 MKR. If it's full-sized, RWD-based and V8-powered: Lincoln, for your own brand preservation, Build It!



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (1 year 12 months 22 hours ago) and read 18643 times:

Lincoln is definitely having a bit of an identity crisis. Too many of their vehicles are rebadged Fords and why should someone pay more for a Lincoln with that being the case? Cadillac had to learn this lesson as well, as they fell hard with the Cimarron in the 1980s and the Catera in the 1990s. Slapping the badge and grille of a luxury brand on a vehicle that isn't known for luxury is an exercise in stupidity.

User currently offlinejetstar From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1644 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (1 year 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 18616 times:
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Quoting srbmod (Reply 10):
Lincoln is definitely having a bit of an identity crisis. Too many of their vehicles are rebadged Fords and why should someone pay more for a Lincoln with that being the case? Cadillac had to learn this lesson as well, as they fell hard with the Cimarron in the 1980s and the Catera in the 1990s. Slapping the badge and grille of a luxury brand on a vehicle that isn't known for luxury is an exercise in stupidity.

But Cadillac is doing this successfully today with the Escalade series, which are nothing more than plushed out, rebadged and with a different grill Chevy Tahoe’s and Suburban’s.

JetStar


User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 18612 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
Who other than the AARP crowd would seriously consider a Cadillac XTS in a world that also features the E Class?

And the AARP crowd isn't worried much about handling. The XTS has a cavernous back seat (with over 40 inches of legroom) and a New Jersey sized trunk (18+ cubic feet - more than an S-class or a 7-series) which is what the older buyer wants - SPACE. Space is the biggest reason LIncoln still sold with the gigantic Town Car (especially trunk room) well after its prime. You can pack 4 big guys and their golf bags into the XTS with space to spare, and not have to drive a boxy SUV or CUV to the country club. Now, Cadillac's resale value is a concern - but Cadillac swears that the XTS is not going to be sold to car rental fleets in large numbers (like the DTS was - and like Ford did with the Town Car) - which should preserve resale values over time.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (1 year 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18605 times:

Quoting jetstar (Reply 11):
But Cadillac is doing this successfully today with the Escalade series, which are nothing more than plushed out, rebadged and with a different grill Chevy Tahoe’s and Suburban’s.

The Escalade is a different story compared to the Cimarron and Catera. The Tahoe/GMC Yukon and the Suburban have never been "cheap" vehicles to begin with. The base Tahoe starts out at $38K and the base Suburban starts out at $42K.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (1 year 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 18593 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 10):
the Catera in the 1990s. Slapping the badge and grille of a luxury brand on a vehicle that isn't known for luxury is an exercise in stupidity.

To be fair to the Catera the Opel Senator which it was based on was Opels executive saloon in Europe.


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 18587 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 14):
To be fair to the Catera the Opel Senator which it was based on was Opels executive saloon in Europe.

At the time of the Catera, the Opel name was about as tarnished in the US as other European brands that failed in the US like Fiat and Peugeot. Folks still remembered the Opels sold in the US in the 60s and 70s and how many of them were pretty bad and in fact, the later Opels were built in Japan by Izuzu for the US market. The Catera's problems didn't help either. By the time GM starting using Opel designs on Saturn models, things had improved.


User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1355 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (1 year 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 18573 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):

They need to go forward with the Continental concept. Hopefully with a regime change in Washington, those CAFE laws will get flushed down the toilet to it's rightful place.

I don't think voting for the GOP will change any of that. That said, I think Ford can do this without stepping on too many CAFE toes. Yes, they need to build it. Is there some technical reason why waiting until 2014 is a good idea?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
the new XTS has been deemed a hit by the auto press,

God knows why that is. Have any of them driven a 5 Series? Plus it looks like a Fusion somebody smashed into a wall.

Seriously. Cadillac is NO closer to their foreign competition than they were twelve years ago. It blows my mind why Motor Trend gets all excited about their latest offerings. While I wouldn't call them junk, per se, there's no question that every model in their line up is overpriced by at least $20,000.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 6):
Who other than the AARP crowd would seriously consider a Cadillac XTS in a world that also features the E Class?

No one, of course. But the thing is that the AARP crowd is still a market, one that has been their bread & butter for decades now. Why they're chasing them out the door with items no one else is interested in anyway is beyond me.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
The law is the reason we got the Versailles and Seville.

Hey now. I liked that turtle-back seville.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Most cargo vans and trucks are Fords in the US.

Maybe, but that's changing too. My company uses a combination of Nissan NVs & Mercedes Sprinter vans for everything from MX Ops to general transport services. We have no Fords,  
Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):

Would have been great to have one in the LS if it was still around. That was a great sedan that Lincoln neglected to market aggressively.

I wanted one of those too, when I was about 22. No way I could afford it, obviously. And now that I can, there are only used ones available, and not many in that great shape to be had.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 9):

5. Lincoln adopting alpha-numeric names for all of its vehicles didn't help as well.

Yeah, well it's not helping Cadillac either, unless alienating & confusing customers was the goal. Both Cadillac & Lincoln need to remember that they do in fact have some decent name plates they can use. Leave the letters to the Japanese & the numbers to the Germans.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (1 year 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 18568 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 13):
The Escalade is a different story compared to the Cimarron and Catera.

  

Indeed, the Escalade generates HUGE profits for GM, which is why the Escalade SUV will remain a "gussied up" Tahoe/Yukon for the foreseeable future. Another Cadillac model will become a full-sized luxury CUV based on the Acadia/Traverse/Enclave platform in a couple of model years.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 18536 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 15):
the later Opels were built in Japan by Izuzu for the US market.

I could have sworn my last Opel (Kadett Rallye) was built in South Korea but I see no such record of that. Which surprised me at the time as the same model one year older I had was from W Germany.
They were being sold through Buick who was ill-equipped to deal with an import. They were not bad cars, I had quite a lot of fun in mine, being much more nimble than your average K car. I can't say I ever remember the Kadett C, which was the Isuzu.


User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (1 year 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 18504 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 18):
They were being sold through Buick who was ill-equipped to deal with an import. They were not bad cars, I had quite a lot of fun in mine, being much more nimble than your average K car.

The Buick Opels (versus the Opel by Isuzu) were sold here in the U.S. until 1975, when the exchange rates made the German built Opels too costly to compete in the USA auto market, thus the infamous Isuzu Opels were sold by Buick after the 1975 model year.

The Buick Opel Manta models (coupe and sedan - was there a station wagon sold in America too?) were actually quite nice, with good handling and fuel economy - and a rather luxurious color-coded corduroy trimmed interiors. One of my high school math teachers had a cranberry Manta coupe (in the late1970s) that she keep in absolutely pristine condition because she liked the car so much - and told me that she owned a (imported from Europe) Ford Capri coupe before the Manta, but got rid of the Capri because it had badly rusted due to the road salt used in our awful Pennsylvania winters.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7517 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (1 year 12 months 3 hours ago) and read 18454 times:

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 16):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):

They need to go forward with the Continental concept. Hopefully with a regime change in Washington, those CAFE laws will get flushed down the toilet to it's rightful place.

I don't think voting for the GOP will change any of that.

Despite the recent alterations to CAFE laws recently made by the President; the work of abolishing the CAFE laws, like the National Speed Limit, requires an Act of Congress to do so. You're right, changing Presidents alone won't make that happen; changing the Senate along w/the Presidency will. The House alone, can't repeal CAFE. It's outright repeal requires the trifecta of the House, Senate & the Presidency.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 16):
That said, I think Ford can do this without stepping on too many CAFE toes. Yes, they need to build it. Is there some technical reason why waiting until 2014 is a good idea?
If their upcoming electric/plug-in models become sales hits; that will indeed take some of the pressure off the MKR being a CAFE drag-down.

As far as waiting until 2014 to build a production model is concerned; one needs to keep in mind that not every concept model displayed (not just Lincoln) isn't exactly production/driveable nor has received production approval from the higher-ups. It's quite possible that the scheduled late 2014 release (as a 2015 model) is due to the time it would take to transform the concept model to production specs and all applicable safety requirements/standards.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39834 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (1 year 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 18449 times:

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 16):
Hey now. I liked that turtle-back seville.


Me too! Especially in champagne.
I'm partial to the Versailles though.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 16):
Maybe, but that's changing too. My company uses a combination of Nissan NVs & Mercedes Sprinter vans for everything from MX Ops to general transport services. We have no Fords,



When it comes to ambulance, power/utility agencies, fire, paramedics, beer trucks, tow trucks and other heavy duty applications seem to be mostly Fords.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 16):
I wanted one of those too, when I was about 22. No way I could afford it, obviously. And now that I can, there are only used ones available, and not many in that great shape to be had.


2007 was the last year. There may be a few that may be in great shape.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 16):
Lincoln need to remember that they do in fact have some decent name plates they can use. Leave the letters to the Japanese & the numbers to the Germans.


  

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 20):
Despite the recent alterations to CAFE laws recently made by the President; the work of abolishing the CAFE laws, like the National Speed Limit, requires an Act of Congress to do so. You're right, changing Presidents alone won't make that happen; changing the Senate along w/the Presidency will. The House alone, can't repeal CAFE. It's outright repeal requires the trifecta of the House, Senate & the Presidency.


That is true and I can see that being repealed if we get Romney. He comes from a car family and knows the business end of the industry.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 18409 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Would have been great to have one in the LS if it was still around. That was a great sedan that Lincoln neglected to market aggressively.

It was good because most of the chassis engineering was done by Jaguar. Pity that Lincoln slapped such an ugly body on it.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 20):
The House alone, can't repeal CAFE. It's outright repeal requires the trifecta of the House, Senate & the Presidency.

The question is why would any govt want to repeal it, the idea of making cars more economical is a good one and can only benefit the consumer and the economy.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39834 posts, RR: 74
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 18403 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):
The question is why would any govt want to repeal it, the idea of making cars more economical is a good one and can only benefit the consumer and the economy.



Let the consumers decide. Average mileage had been going up even before the first CAFE law was passed in 1975.
Contrary to popular opinion, most people buy what their wallets dictate and fuel economy is a deciding factor for many buyers. Today, CAFE laws are set very high for the government to make an excuse to get more tax money. Has nothing to do about saving the world or making better cars. It's a scam for the government.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7251 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 18396 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 23):
Let the consumers decide. Average mileage had been going up even before the first CAFE law was passed in 1975.

Without CAFE you lot would still be driving around in land yachts, sometimes industry needs a helping hand from govt to push them in the right direction, CAFE was this helping hand. The other way of tackling excessive fuel consumption is to jack up fuel costs, fuel is dirt cheap in the Us compared to European prices.


25 PHLBOS : But there wouldn't have been an explosion (or at least as large of one) of SUVs into the market or at least as big of one. Large station wagons would
26 Aesma : Well, that's because CAFE is flawed in not including SUVs. Here SUVs get the same CO2 tax as any car, and SUVs only started to sell when they could go
27 Post contains images Superfly : Wrong. Small cars were becoming popular before CAFE. That was the consumer deciding, not the government.
28 KiwiRob : I disagree, note that SUV's are popular in other markets, not just the US. My wife's next car will be an SUV, she is short she wants to sit up high,
29 mham001 : Got it. When they did something you like, it is a Jaguar success, when Jaguar does a flop, it was all Ford's fault. In today's news, Ford announced t
30 PHLBOS : You forget that full-size station wagons in the US and Canada were larger than any of those offered elsewhere. The gigantic land-yachts of the 70s of
31 TSS : Are you sure you're thinking of the right Lincoln, KiwiRob? The LS, while being no great beauty, was far from "ugly". I suspect a big part of the LS'
32 BMI727 : But they were never a secret. CAFE and the gas guzzler tax didn't cause other foreign manufacturers to foist crap on the American consumer. That's wh
33 KiwiRob : Jaguar haven't made any booboo's in many a year, Ford actually did them some good, I've never said otherwise, without Ford's investment Jaguar would
34 BMI727 : Before CAFE and the gas guzzler tax came into existence, there were SUVs. In fact, almost every major manufacturer offered them. CAFE was enacted in
35 KiwiRob : No the lesson learnt is the govt were stupid and didn't include SUV's and later CUV's into CAFE.
36 slider : You nailed it...the biggest issue, even beyond the very sound points already posited, is that few will spend that kind of money for what they don't p
37 PHLBOS : KiwiRob, CAFE figures have already existed and still exist for trucks (vans, SUVs & later CUVs); they're just set at a lower number. As a matter
38 Aesma : Scrap CAFE, put a war tax of 2$ per gallon and see if big SUVs stay popular.
39 DarkSnowyNight : Champagne's nice. I was always partial to the two-tone silver/charcoal combo. In fact, now I think of it, I've always really liked most two-tones. Sh
40 Post contains images Superfly : Damn right! Take me back! Why should this "war tax" only apply to gasoline? How about it apply to computers, ipads, smart phones, medical equipment,
41 KiwiRob : With cheap cars, but with high end cars like Rolls Royce, Bentley, Bugatti, Ferrari two tone paint jobs are still popular. .
42 Post contains links and images Aesma : You're right, the tax we have here (called the TIPP) applies to oil, coal, natural gas, heating oil, etc. However only on the basic products, but of
43 KiwiRob : How daft of me, my last MINI was pepper white with black roof, and my current one is pure red with black roof. The DS3 Racing is a super little car,
44 Post contains images Superfly : That is one of the great things about France. It's too bad that there was such a huge movement against nuclear power in the US by environmentalist ba
45 Post contains images Revelation : Destruction isn't always accidental!
46 Post contains images PHLBOS : Since it's too late to edit my earlier post, I will place it here for 'your personal enjoyment' ; edits underlined and bolded: Heck, Chevy's already
47 mham001 : And rightfully so. Not only from the people who see no efficiency in handing the government more money, but from the working poor who would be severe
48 BMI727 : $2 from every gallon going straight to the defense budget? Sign me up!
49 TSS : For once, we are in agreement. It's a pity that the LS wasn't better looking as it had reasonably attractive proportions, and more distinctively Linc
50 Post contains images DarkSnowyNight : In all honesty, I'd only like to see a very small portion of such a surcharge go to the EPA, & IHC. No other gov't entity would have a claim anyw
51 Post contains images Superfly : Some bean-counter at Lincoln decided against it and thought the market wanted another dressed up F-150 pick-up truck with the Mark badge stuck on it.
52 BMI727 : The government shouldn't be subsidizing anyone's choice of vehicle, whether you drive a Hummer or a golf cart. If you drive something efficient, you
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