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Holder To Sue The SSA?  
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5345 posts, RR: 14
Posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2810 times:

While helping a friend of mine muddle through applying for SSA benefits, I came across this little bit of information:

If you apply for Social Security or Supplemental Security Income benefits, you must receive your payments electronically. If you did not sign up for electronic payments when you applied for benefits, we strongly urge you to do it now. You must switch to electronic payments by March 1, 2013. If you don't, the U.S. Department of the Treasury may send your benefits via the Direct Express® card program to avoid an interruption in payment.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/deposit/

So, I go over to see what the Direct Express card program is and find this:

With the Direct Express® card program, we deposit your federal benefit payment directly into your card account. Your monthly benefits will be available on your payment day—on time, every time. You can use the card to make purchases, pay bills or get cash at thousands of locations.

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/pubs/10073.html#a0=1

It seems to me, that in order for a poor elderly person (of any ethnic persuasion), to receive the benefits he has earned and deserves, that poor elderly person will need to get an ID of some sort. That poor elderly person (again, of any ethnic persuasion), will need an ID to open a bank account in order to receive the electronic payment. Or, if they choose not to open a bank account, that poor elderly person will need to use a debit card in order to pay for any products. Now, I don't know about you, but, when I use a credit and/or debit card, it's even money as to whether I need to produce an ID in order to complete the transaction.

I look forward to the lawsuit and the SSA's defense of their clearly discriminatory policy.

Or, Attorney General Holder can sue the banks to lift the ID requirement.......


When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
seems to me, that in order for a poor elderly person (of any ethnic persuasion), to receive the benefits he has earned and deserves, that poor elderly person will need to get an ID of some sort. That poor elderly person (again, of any ethnic persuasion), will need an ID to open a bank account in order to receive the electronic payment. Or, if they choose not to open a bank account, that poor elderly person will need to use a debit card in order to pay for any products.

Last I checked, you don't need ID at an ATM..
Might want to go rethink your think here.

You should be more worried about ISSA wasting govenment funds suing over documents that are not relevent to whether fast and furious was a debacle or not.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5361 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):

It seems to me, that in order for a poor elderly person (of any ethnic persuasion), to receive the benefits he has earned and deserves, that poor elderly person will need to get an ID of some sort. That poor elderly person (again, of any ethnic persuasion), will need an ID to open a bank account in order to receive the electronic payment.

Per the SSA...

The Direct Express® card is a debit card you can use to access your benefits. And you don't need a bank account.

and



The Direct Express® card is simple and easy to use. You can use it to:

Make purchases. Present your card when paying at any location that accepts MasterCard® debit cards. The money is automatically deducted from your account.
Get cash. Get cash at ATMs or from bank or credit union tellers. Or, get cash back with purchases at many retail locations.



So it seems that there'd be no need to open a bank account in the first place because the Direct Express card *is* its own account - I've seen benefits administered this way. While I was on unemployment I had the option of either getting my benefits direct deposited to my bank account or I could get an NC ESC Debit Card and my benefits would be put on that account that I could then use just as I would a debit card.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1262 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

Is that the best justification you can come up with for voter ID laws? That is weak.

Face it, voter fraud is practically non-existent so you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. It's a useless extra piece of bureaucracy. Why is that so hard to understand?

Since it's a non-existent problem, and knowing your partisanship, I can only assume you support it specifically because you believe that it will decrease the Democratic share of the vote.

Shameful  



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5345 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 1):
Last I checked, you don't need ID at an ATM..
Might want to go rethink your think here.

So, the poor elderly person will have to go to the ATM machine to get cash? But wait, you say those that don't already have direct deposit already go to the bank to deposit and/or cash their check. Well, those folks already have ID, don't they?

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 2):
I could get an NC ESC Debit Card and my benefits would be put on that account that I could then use just as I would a debit card.

I agree, that it is a common practice for governments to deposit funds directly into/onto a debit card. But, what happens to these poor elderly folks, who clearly can't get an ID, want to purchase something with the card and the merchant demands ID?

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 3):
Is that the best justification you can come up with for voter ID laws?

Who said anything about voter ID? My concern is about the poor elderly folks, without ID that will have to find a new way to deal with this SSA edict.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 3):
Since it's a non-existent problem, and knowing your partisanship, I can only assume you support it specifically because you believe that it will decrease the Democratic share of the vote.

But, since you brought it up:
Bad assumption. I support voter ID laws because they prevent people from fraudulently registering and fraudulently voting.

I can only assume, knowing your partisanship, that you specifically want people who are ineligible to vote because they will tend to vote Democratic. Shameful.

And, you say that voter fraud is non-existent: how do we know that? How do you know how many ineligible folks have registered and voted? Do they vote and then make an announcement? Is there some secret fraudulent voter list?

It is fraud. By its nature it goes un-noticed until discovered.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 4):
Well, those folks already have ID, don't they?

Nope

They can use any atm. What ATM asks for ID?


They can pay the fee............
Or use a credit union and avoid the fee.

Don't need an account at a bank to use an ATM. Especially for a MC issued Government Card that doesn't require a bank.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1262 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 4):
Who said anything about voter ID? My concern is about the poor elderly folks, without ID that will have to find a new way to deal with this SSA edict

Very convincing.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 4):
And, you say that voter fraud is non-existent: how do we know that? How do you know how many ineligible folks have registered and voted? Do they vote and then make an announcement? Is there some secret fraudulent voter list?

Pretty simple- you cross-check the list of eligible voters with the list of people who voted. It has been done many times and generally voter fraud has been very low (around 0.0004%). Also you use just an ounce, an OUNCE of common sense and consider whether a significant number of people would risk a $10,000 fine and jail time for just a single extra vote for their party.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 4):
I can only assume, knowing your partisanship, that you specifically want people who are ineligible to vote because they will tend to vote Democratic. Shameful.

Nice try, but that assumption only works if voter fraud is rampant, which all the evidence says is false.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5345 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 5):
They can pay the fee............

Oh, doesn't that place some kind of burden on the poor elderly person?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 5):
Or use a credit union and avoid the fee.

Which will require an ID.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
Very convincing.

Oh well, you got me.

My point, is that our very own government demands ID for so many daily, mundane tasks, either through direct action (boarding an aircraft) or indirect actions (issuing a debit card for government payment), yet do demand one for voter registration and for voting.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
Also you use just an ounce, an OUNCE of common sense and consider whether a significant number of people would risk a $10,000 fine and jail time for just a single extra vote for their party.

Yes, but what happens when you have a concerted effort on the part of one organization? Should we wait for an election to be lost to fraud before we act?

How many dead are still registered to vote? What prevents someone from voting in their place?
http://www.npr.org/2012/02/14/146827...ad-people-still-registered-to-vote

A quote from that article:

There's little evidence that this has led to widespread voter fraud, but it has raised concerns that the system is vulnerable.

The system is vulnerable. Should we wait until there is a major case of voter fraud before we deal with this vulnerability? No, especially, when the fix is so easy.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21512 posts, RR: 55
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
My point, is that our very own government demands ID for so many daily, mundane tasks, either through direct action (boarding an aircraft) or indirect actions (issuing a debit card for government payment), yet do demand one for voter registration and for voting.

Those aren't rights. Voting is.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
The system is vulnerable. Should we wait until there is a major case of voter fraud before we deal with this vulnerability?

No, but the answer isn't to have changes implemented by clearly partisan legislatures and election commissions with only a few months to go before the election. The ship has sailed on changing the 2012 election process, if you want to get working on a viable solution for 2016 that's another matter.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Oh, doesn't that place some kind of burden on the poor elderly person?

'That's the banks fees not the governments.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Which will require an ID.

How does a Credit Union ATM require an ID?



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1262 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Oh well, you got me.

My point, is that our very own government demands ID for so many daily, mundane tasks, either through direct action (boarding an aircraft) or indirect actions (issuing a debit card for government payment), yet do demand one for voter registration and for voting.

And yet hundreds of thousands of legal voters don't have photo ID and manage just fine. Why should they be forced to A ) pay money to get an ID to exercise their right to vote and B ) take time off their (probably very low paying) jobs to stand in line at the DMV?

Are you suggesting this process would be painless? That government run services like the DMV are 100% efficient? Seems unlikely based on my experience. Why should we give the government extra power to influence who can and cannot vote by REDUCING the transparency of the voting process? That seems highly dangerous to me.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Yes, but what happens when you have a concerted effort on the part of one organization? Should we wait for an election to be lost to fraud before we act?

That sounds close to "the system is working fine, but let's switch it to a worse system just in case".



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5345 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
No, but the answer isn't to have changes implemented by clearly partisan legislatures and election commissions with only a few months to go before the election. The ship has sailed on changing the 2012 election process, if you want to get working on a viable solution for 2016 that's another matter.

I'm all for doing it for the 2013 elections .

Quoting casinterest (Reply 9):
'That's the banks fees not the governments.

But, if the government process forces someone to pay a fee, it's a defacto government fee, isn't it? Oh, I guess the government can force the bank to waive the fee for the SSA debit card. More interference.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 9):
How does a Credit Union ATM require an ID?

You wrote 'credit union', not credit union ATM. And, I'll plead ignorance, since I don't use credit union ATM's...you don't pay a fee even if you don't have a account? Or is that just some cedit union ATM's?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4469 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 11):
You wrote 'credit union', not credit union ATM. And, I'll plead ignorance, since I don't use credit union ATM's...you don't pay a fee even if you don't have a account? Or is that just some cedit union ATM's?

Most Credit Union ATM's don't charge you to use their ATM , even if you are not a member. Doesn't stop your own bank from screwing you over if they do charge tranaction fees. This is why I use a credit union.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineaa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 4):
I agree, that it is a common practice for governments to deposit funds directly into/onto a debit card. But, what happens to these poor elderly folks, who clearly can't get an ID, want to purchase something with the card and the merchant demands ID?

Actually, MasterCard (and Visa) have contracts with merchants that prohibit asking for ID, unless the cardholder has not signed the back of his or her card.

Besides, the comparison isn't apt. Voting is a fundamental constitutional right. Social Security benefits are not.


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1262 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2618 times:

Quoting aa757first (Reply 13):
Besides, the comparison isn't apt. Voting is a fundamental constitutional right.

Is it? I was under the impression it wasn't.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5345 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2616 times:

Quoting aa757first (Reply 13):
Actually, MasterCard (and Visa) have contracts with merchants that prohibit asking for ID, unless the cardholder has not signed the back of his or her card.

Really? I think you'll need to cite that for me. Because many merchants in my area are violating that contract.

Quoting aa757first (Reply 13):
Besides, the comparison isn't apt. Voting is a fundamental constitutional right. Social Security benefits are not.

No, but they are a debt obligation of the federal government and that is a constitutional obligation.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1262 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Really? I think you'll need to cite that for me. Because many merchants in my area are violating that contract.

True- Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID prior to completing a transaction, but merchants cannot make the presentation of ID a condition of acceptance unless the card isn't signed.

Of course nobody obeys this rule. You're also not allowed to require a minumum spend for credit card, but tons of people do that too.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8187 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
I look forward to the lawsuit and the SSA's defense of their clearly discriminatory policy.

Not that hard to decent. The SSA will have all the stats on stolen checks over the past half century, and how that is reduced when direct deposits are used.

There will also be sufficient information available on the number of robberies that the elderly endure when they used to cash those physical SS checks - and how those numbers have gone down with direct deposit.

And, let's be realistic, those moving onto SS these days have generally had a lot of interaction with computers - and a lot have had computers in their house for years.

BTW, how many of those old folks have been able to cash that physical SS check without a photo ID?

Quoting aa757first (Reply 13):
Social Security benefits are not.

Correct. Social Security benefits are a legal right backed by the full faith & confidence in the US Government.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 14):
I was under the impression it wasn't.

The GOP is working very hard to diminish that right for people who might vote for the Democrats. People of color, the elderly who would have problems meeting all the changes the GOP tries to shove up their azz, all those "you know who" the GOP really doesn't want to vote.

Fortunately we are seeing some courts slapping down the GOP games.


User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5345 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2525 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
. People of color, the elderly who would have problems meeting all the changes

And, once again, as I've asked before: why are people of color and the elderly so unable to get an ID? Is something wrong with them? Are they incapable? Are they stupid? Are they unintelligent? Tell me, why does the Democratic Party feel these folks can't get an ID?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8187 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 18):
once again, as I've asked before: why are people of color and the elderly so unable to get an ID?

A lot of elderly people have transportation problems or their IDs are pretty old. (Remember the WW II Veteran who Florida kicked off the rolls a few months ago? How easy would it be for him to get a photo ID these days?)

Minorities are also recognized to have more challenges getting a Photo ID than whites - which is the whole reason behind the GOP effort. And the reasons why the courts are slapping down some of these new laws - like the Texas Rd Neck Voting Law.

Same with restricting voting opportunities, like early voting .


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5564 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 3):
Face it, voter fraud is practically non-existent

        

Now, does voter fraud make an actual difference? Probably not (except maybe in local elections). But to say it doesn't happen is burying your head in the sand.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1262 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2471 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 20):

Wow- you are easily amused! They should have put you in the audience during Clint's empty chair routine...

Never said it doesn't happen- I said it was practically non-existent. 0.0004-0.0009% is not enough to merit voter ID laws.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineGEEZER From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2468 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
It seems to me, that in order for a poor elderly person (of any ethnic persuasion), to receive the benefits he has earned and deserves, that poor elderly person will need to get an ID of some sort. That poor elderly person (again, of any ethnic persuasion), will need an ID to open a bank account in order to receive the electronic payment. Or, if they choose not to open a bank account, that poor elderly person will need to use a debit card in order to pay for any products. Now, I don't know about you, but, when I use a credit and/or debit card, it's even money as to whether I need to produce an ID in order to complete the transaction.

fr8mech...........you and I are of "like mind" when it comes to gun control, and the freedom for citizens to defend themselves;

Now.......as for Social Security; Once upon a time, it's true, many seniors preferred to have their SS checks mailed to their doors; this all came to an end quite some time ago, when stealing SS checks out of people's mailboxes became a "cottage' industry, (which it still is, to a much lesser extent). as all of us "poor old elderly folks" aren't quite as "brain dead" as Obama seems to think we are.

As for credit cards and / or debit cards; any "poor old elderly folk", ( or any sharp, young, upwardly mobile yuppie for that matter ) either A. already has a debit acct, or B. had damn well better get one, ASAP ! I won't trouble you with a long lecture on the benefits of debit acts, other than just to point out that, 98% or the financial "bind" many people of ALL AGES find themselves in, comes about from the, shall, we say, "unwise use" of credit cards. (98% of people shopping with a credit card, (or cards) spend MORE money than they have coming in, and thereby incurring huge interest, which ends up killing them.
The thoughtful, intelligent "poor old elderly folks" (such as "your's truly"), have figured out that if you have XXXX coming in on such and such day every month, you merely keep an eye on your debit acct. (which is almost (but not quite) free, and you NEVER pay any interest, and you never have any financial problems ! (It's only when you spend XXXXX that you have problems ! ) ( Kinda like the Federal Government under the Democrats and Republicans )

As for this so-called "Direct Express" card; Don't have it, don't need it, don't want it ! Don't recommend it ! As for an "ID"; everyone, regardless of their age is apt to need some form of I.D. "on occasion" but the occasions aren't really very often; and most times an I.D. is required, a valid driver's license is all one generally needs.

So.......don't worry too much about Holder suing anyone; (he is very likely to become unemployed soon)

And I forgot to mention...............it only takes one phone call, (or one email), and any "poor poor old elderly senior citizen's" S.S befits will be promptly posted to their debit acct on such and such day each month, and no I.D. no "hassle" needed !


Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineGEEZER From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2461 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 1):
Last I checked, you don't need ID at an ATM..

No, you don't need any I.D. at the ATM machine; what you occassionaly Do need though, is a Glock in your pocket when some "perp" walks up and says "i'll take that"...........

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 2):
So it seems that there'd be no need to open a bank account in the first place

Why is everyone so worried about having a bank account ? There are a lot more reasons why having a bank account is more advantageous than there are valid reasons for not having one.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 3):
Face it, voter fraud is practically non-existent so you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. It's a useless extra piece of bureaucracy. Why is that so hard to understand?

There is only one thing wrong with the two statements you just made; they are both totally untrue. As a matter of fact, the State of Indiana will argue with you all day long about "voter fraud being rare" ! But that's another story, and this thread is not about voter fraud. I can tell you this though............there have been many cases of undocumented people in this country who have A. voted in national elections B. received all kinds of welfare, and other social "services" C. I have to prove who I am every time I want to get on an airplane, cash a check, get a bank loan, (and a hundred other things), but you say "having to identify one's self in order to VOTE on who's goinging to run OUR government, is needless bureaucracy ? Is that REALLY what you said ? You are however half right............I have NEVER heard of a case of an un-documented alien ever voting for a Republican !

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
Pretty simple- you cross-check the list of eligible voters with the list of people who voted. It has been done many times and generally voter fraud has been very low (around 0.0004%). Also you use just an ounce, an OUNCE of common sense and consider whether a significant number of people would risk a $10,000 fine and jail time for just a single extra vote for their party.

So you think the "risk" of a $10,000 fine is going to discourage voter fraud ? if that's the case, why are there so many thousands of murders in the U.S. when the "risk" is from life imprisonment to death ? Doesn't seem to be much of a "deterrent" does it ?

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
Nice try, but that assumption only works if voter fraud is rampant, which all the evidence says is false.

Nice try to you, but your "opinion" that voter fraud is is "almost nonexistent" just doesn't make it nonexistent. It's a matter of public record that voter fraud is "rampant".



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineGEEZER From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2454 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
Those aren't rights. Voting is.

Voting is a right ? To who ? is it a "right" for terrorists who are bent on destroying our country ? is it a "right" for anyone who sneaks across from Canada or Mexico ? I think if you check into that assumption that "voting is a "right", you will find that it's only a "right" for law-abiding American Citizens; I should add........every time i have ever voted in any election, I have been been fully prepared to PROVE who I am, and where I live. Tell me Mir, when you applied for your driver's license, and your pilot's license, did they just "take your word for it" as to who you are, or did they require some valid I.D. ?

Quoting Mir (Reply 8):
No, but the answer isn't to have changes implemented by clearly partisan legislatures and election commissions with only a few months to go before the election. The ship has sailed on changing the 2012 election process, if you want to get working on a viable solution for 2016 that's another matter.

Clearly partisan legislatures ? have you ever seen a legislature that Isn't "partisan", (in favor of the majority) ?
So we should wait till Obama steals yet another election, THEN change the law ? I rearly don't know anything about a hypothetical "ship" that has "sailed on", but I do know a great country that is becoming "less great" every moment our government is in his very incapable hands. But this debate is really a moot point; I'm becoming more confident every day that there are going to be more than enough Arerican Citizens who are not going to need any new laws to send Obam back to Chicago in just 6 weeks from now.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineGEEZER From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2454 times:

Quoting aa757first (Reply 13):
Actually, MasterCard (and Visa) have contracts with merchants that prohibit asking for ID, unless the cardholder has not signed the back of his or her card.

Actually, a merchant, (or an on-line vendor) can refuse to honor your card if you haven't signed the back; and yes, MANY local merchants DO require I.D. before they will honor a card.

Quoting aa757first (Reply 13):
Besides, the comparison isn't apt. Voting is a fundamental constitutional right. Social Security benefits are not.

As I have already pointed out, voting is a "right" ONLY to "home grown" and naturalized American Citizens;

Now, as one who has been receiving social security benefits since 1997, ( and after paying INTO it for 47 years ) I think I know a fair bit about how it works; I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say it's not a right; I will say, it definitely needs some serious improvements in weeding out the "cheats" who are gaming the system.

Another point worth mentioning while social security is being discussed.......Social Security, when it was first started back in 1935, was predicated on the premise of being for people who "put INTO it over a long period of time; also, there were like 8 people contributing to SS for every 2 or 3 people receiving benefits; that has changed drastically, time after time after time, all I might add, by democrat controlled congresses; now, in 2012, there are 3 people contributing four every 8 people receiving benefits; (and we ALSO have many people receiving benefits who have never contributed a cent ! ( Think SSI )

Before you try to tell me social security is an "entitlement", or "welfare".........allow me to point out, Millions and millions of workers put the money in the so-called "S.S. Trust Fund" ( s very inept name for a large sum of money controlled by the Federal Government, I would say), but along came Lyndon Johnson's "scheme", and the entire amount in the so-called "trust fund" was "moved" (read: stolen) to the "General Fund", where it was of course, promptly spent (again, by greedy politicians who are always buying votes "back home" by funding huge "projects" for the folks back home, (with OUR money). That in a nut shell, is why the system is broke; It's like getting into a card game where the "house" changes the rules 9 times before the first pot is won by anyone.


Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineGEEZER From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
Not that hard to decent. The SSA will have all the stats on stolen checks over the past half century, and how that is reduced when direct deposits are used.

Correct !

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
There will also be sufficient information available on the number of robberies that the elderly endure when they used to cash those physical SS checks - and how those numbers have gone down with direct deposit.

You're right again !

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
And, let's be realistic, those moving onto SS these days have generally had a lot of interaction with computers - and a lot have had computers in their house for years.

That's three in a row that we agree on !

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
BTW, how many of those old folks have been able to cash that physical SS check without a photo ID?

Not many would be my guess.........

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 17):
The GOP is working very hard to diminish that right for people who might vote for the Democrats. People of color, the elderly who would have problems meeting all the changes the GOP tries to shove up their azz, all those "you know who" the GOP really doesn't want to vote.

I was afraid you'd spoil it ! Ken, that last statement just is not true; People of color ? Do you really think the GOP is "racist"? You (or no one else) can demonstrate ONE SINGLE thing that the GOP is doing that's "aimed" specifically at black people ! And yes, we all know "who" "you know who" refers to; and even many of "them" have "had it" with Obama ! ( I know that for a fact, because many have told me that !)

Fortunately we are seeing some courts slapping down the GOP games.

And yes, we very well may see some liberal Federal Court Judges ( such as the 9th Circuit ) ( in Obamafornia ) trying to "legislate from the bench"; (they've certainly did it before ! ) But I hardly think they'll attempt to overturn an National Election.


Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1262 posts, RR: 3
Reply 27, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

Quoting GEEZER (Reply 23):
There is only one thing wrong with the two statements you just made; they are both totally untrue.

Well, not according to every source I can find. This makes interesting reading:

http://votingrights.news21.com/article/election-fraud/

And no doubt you will respond without even reading it with claims that it's a "biased source" or some other cliche enclosed in unnecessary quote marks, but before you do, try finding out how many people have been prosecuted in the US for voter-impersonation fraud. If it's rampant it should be happening constantly, right?

Quoting GEEZER (Reply 23):
As a matter of fact, the State of Indiana will argue with you all day long about "voter fraud being rare"

The same state of Indiana that has had voter ID laws since 2005? Didn't seem to help them, did it?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...arged-with-election-fraud-in-2008/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...e-white-voter-fraud_n_1254311.html

You see, (and I can't believe I actually have to spell this out), voter fraud may exist but voter-impersonation fraud (i.e. the type of fraud which would be discouraged by voter ID laws) is incredibly rare. This is what we're discussing, not unrelated voter fraud.

Quoting GEEZER (Reply 23):
But that's another story, and this thread is not about voter fraud.

That's exactly what it's about. Read between the lines.

Quoting GEEZER (Reply 23):
So you think the "risk" of a $10,000 fine is going to discourage voter fraud ? if that's the case, why are there so many thousands of murders in the U.S. when the "risk" is from life imprisonment to death ? Doesn't seem to be much of a "deterrent" does it ?

That is the most fatuous argument I have ever heard in my life. Murder has a very high upside- you get rid of somebody you don't like. Voter impersonation has a very low upside- a 0.00001% increase in the chance of somebody you've never met getting a new job.

Quoting GEEZER (Reply 23):
Nice try to you, but your "opinion" that voter fraud is is "almost nonexistent" just doesn't make it nonexistent. It's a matter of public record that voter fraud is "rampant".

Then let's see the evidence. Because I think you are inventing a public record which does not exist.

Let me ask you something else- why do you suppose that all the focus is on voter-impersonation fraud (which evidence indicates is extremely rare) and not on absentee voting fraud (which evidence indicates is far from rare)? Where is all the outrage about that?

The rest of your post- particularly the part about Obama "stealing the election" is rambling drivel.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
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