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Jaguar's Next Supercar Will Be A Plugin Hybrid  
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3723 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Jaguar has officially confirmed that they expect to build 200 C-X75s, assuming the first 5 prove their concept. Powered by a 1.6l 4 cyl producing over 500hp, combined with electric propulsion of unknown quantity, the car is said to hit 0-60 in under 3 seconds. On electric-only, it will do the same in ~6 secs. It also uses a kinetic recovery system developed in F1. Electric-only range is expected to be 37 miles on the Euro cycle....cost will be $1.1-1.4 million.

http://www.motortrend.com/future/con...r_plans_200_c_x75_plug_in_hybrids/

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2800 times:

A 1.6l 4 cylinders for $1.1 million? Come on! I know the speed looks promising and it may be a technological marvel, but for that price I'd rather have a singing V10 or V12.


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7834 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2774 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 1):
A 1.6l 4 cylinders for $1.1 million?

It's a pretty special engine, Cosworth developed it for use in F1 before the FIA decided to go with V6's, so it's going to be fairly unstressed at 500hp.


User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 2):
It's a pretty special engine, Cosworth developed it for use in F1 before the FIA decided to go with V6's, so it's going to be fairly unstressed at 500hp.

4 cylinders are not noble. They are for the average Joe day-to-day car.

If I put $1.1 million in car, I would expect it not have the same amount of cylinders as my former Peugeot 207. It's matter of principle. And I don't really care if the engine has been developped by Cosworth.

I understand the downsizing and all, but it sucks.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineMrChips From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 938 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 3):
4 cylinders are not noble. They are for the average Joe day-to-day car.

Especially when you consider that the C-X75, at least in concept form, was supposed to be a turbine-electric hybrid (there is discussion that there might yet be a production run of turbine C-X75s toward the end of the model cycle). Having said that, this 4-cylinder is going to be about the most exotic engine ever fitted to a road car, so I'm not complaining too much.

[Edited 2012-08-31 15:22:03]


Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15832 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2736 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 1):
A 1.6l 4 cylinders for $1.1 million? Come on! I know the speed looks promising and it may be a technological marvel, but for that price I'd rather have a singing V10 or V12.

It's the speed that matters.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1502 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2726 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 3):
I understand the downsizing and all, but it sucks.

By that argument why do supercars not all have quad-turbo W16s? Answer- they're totally unnecessary and it's very hard to get all the power down on the road anyway. A four cylinder engine saves weight and thus improves handling. Now the technology is available to augment the power with an electric motor the need for a massive engine is negated.

You may not care about Cosworth, but they do know a thing or two about making engines. I'd give them the benefit of the doubt until the car actually sees the light of day.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15832 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
By that argument why do supercars not all have quad-turbo W16s?

The Veyron's 4,100 lb. curb weight answers that question.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
Now the technology is available to augment the power with an electric motor the need for a massive engine is negated.

Of course the motors and batteries aren't the lightest things out there either.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2714 times:

Quoting MrChips (Reply 4):
so I'm not complaining too much

It's not that I'm complaining (well, I'm French, so I guess I am ), but for that price I would expect a V8 or a V12.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
It's the speed that matters.

How many occasions do you have to legally drive at 200+ mph? For me, it's more the sound, the handling and the accelerations. Obviously, that car has the acceleration and probably the handling, but 4 cylinders don't sound as good as 10 or 12.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
By that argument why do supercars not all have quad-turbo W16s?

It's not because I'm saying 4 cylinders are short that I'm saying all supercars should have W16.

V8s, V10s and V12s also do exist  
Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
You may not care about Cosworth, but they do know a thing or two about making engines

I do care about Cosworth, I know who they are and what they do. No doubt this engine has to be a good. I just think a $1.1 million car would deserve more cylinders. That's all!  

[Edited 2012-08-31 16:03:29]

[Edited 2012-08-31 16:03:42]


"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3723 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2705 times:

It will be interesting to see how Mr. Clarkson spins this. A hated hybrid under his beloved Jaguar nameplate.

User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6933 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 2):
It's a pretty special engine, Cosworth developed it for use in F1 before the FIA decided to go with V6's, so it's going to be fairly unstressed at 500hp.

I have my doubts about that. F1 engines are dead after 3000Km, reducing the power by a third might not be that beneficial, I'm sure they'll have to significantly adapt it.

Now for the sound, if it sounds anything like an F1 engine at high rev, should be fairly close to a turbine ! I would definitely like that.

About the KERS, if your car is hybrid it already has one, using the electric motors and batteries.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15832 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2683 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 8):
Obviously, that car has the acceleration and probably the handling, but 4 cylinders don't sound as good as 10 or 12.

If it goes fast enough, I don't really care. Besides, BMW has a solution to the sound thing.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7392 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

I thought they meant the F type, which would have been much cheaper. and more suited to the mainstream hybrid craze. Hybrids & Electrics should only be for standard cars, leaving the high performance end the last of the fuel reserves for those who won't mind paying $10-20 a litre. All the hybrid/electric crap does it add weight unnecessarily. They should be focused on absolute weight loss first and foremost.

User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3723 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 10):
About the KERS, if your car is hybrid it already has one, using the electric motors and batteries.

I thought the F1 teams were using the more efficient mechanical KERS (brake energy). The average street hybrid is using electrical recovery.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
If it goes fast enough, I don't really care.

It's good to see a hater is coming around. My work here is paying off.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 12):
Hybrids & Electrics should only be for standard cars, leaving the high performance end the last of the fuel reserves for those who won't mind paying $10-20 a litre. All the hybrid/electric crap does it add weight unnecessarily

Why? F1 seems to believe they are beneficial (35kg in F!). I'm sure everybody feels good about allowing the rich to frivolously waste the last drops of oil. Not that it won't happen anyway.

[Edited 2012-08-31 19:08:45]

User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15832 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2656 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
I thought the F1 teams were using the more efficient mechanical KERS (brake energy). The average street hybrid is using electrical recovery.

They are all electrical, it's just a matter of whether it's stored in batteries or a flywheel. No street system has used a flywheel yet. I think it's the better option for performance, but can be a bit problematic from a packaging standpoint.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
It's good to see a hater is coming around. My work here is paying off.

Not really. I don't care how anyone powers their car, I'm just sick of people or the government telling me how I should power mine. If it's a fast enough car I don't care if it gets 5 mpg or 50.

For that matter, if I were making a seven figure car purchase, it wouldn't be this Jag. I'd be going with the Venom GT and maybe have change left over for a McLaren.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7392 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2629 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
Why? F1 seems to believe they are beneficial (35kg in F!)

Only because Bernie is scrabbling (and has been for over a decade) to try and justify F1 in the face of the Eco-Stasi juggernaut steamrolling anything they deem as 'anti-environmental' behaviour. He has made all sorts of changes, not because they add anything to the sport or because they will make technological gains for future developments, but because he wants to avoid the wrath of the Green Brigade for as long as possible.

There are good technological advances that are also better environmentally, but they won't be developed if the time and money isn't spent on things which may have no perceived ecological benefit as well. Designing technologies solely to be eco-friendly is like a horse with blinkers - it only sees what it is allowed to see and nothing else. It is very limiting.

There are many ideas within vehicle R&D that are amazing and beneficial in every way except environmentally, so they will never see the light of day because of this rush to "go green". I find that very sad, and it used to be that Halo "cost-no-barrier" vehicles like this Jag would showcase future innovations. Hybrid techs are a way of minimising current damage, they are not the technology of the future.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
I'm sure everybody feels good about allowing the rich to frivolously waste the last drops of oil. Not that it won't happen anyway.

Exactly. You know as well as I do that will pan out that way - It matters not one jot whether us peasants feel good about it or not. We may as well be honest with ourselves and just let it happen.

Money = power = do what you want. Always has been, always will be.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40069 posts, RR: 74
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2625 times:

Quoting MrChips (Reply 4):
the C-X75, at least in concept form, was supposed to be a turbine-electric hybrid (there is discussion that there might yet be a production run of turbine C-X75s toward the end of the model cycle).

That sounds interesting. That will be the first turbine powered cars since the 1962-1964 Chysler turbins car. The turbines were made by Ghia in Turin, Italy, with final assembly taking place in Detroit, Michigan.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 6):
You may not care about Cosworth, but they do know a thing or two about making engines.

You've got that right...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f4/1975_Cosworth_Vega_Ad.jpg



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7834 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2622 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 3):

4 cylinders are not noble. They are for the average Joe day-to-day car.

This is also a 4 cylinder engine with a 10,000 rpm redline, I can't think of any v12's on sale today which can match that, plus it's small light, makes packaging easier and allows space for batteries for the electric powertrain.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
That will be the first turbine powered cars since the 1962-1964 Chysler turbins car.

FYI Rover built a series of turbine powered cars the last of which raced at Le Mans in 65.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40069 posts, RR: 74
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2615 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
FYI Rover built a series of turbine powered cars the last of which raced at Le Mans in 65.

Were they sold to the public like the Chrysler?

[Edited 2012-09-01 01:49:35]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15832 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2608 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):

The Chrysler Turbine Cars were never sold to the public. If i remember correctly, they were leased to select customers in a pilot program. At the end of it Chrysler took the cars back and destroyed most of them.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7834 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2600 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):

Were they sold to the public like the Chrysler?

No but neither were the Chryslers.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
If i remember correctly, they were leased to select customers in a pilot program. At the end of it Chrysler took the cars back and destroyed most of them.

Leno has one.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6933 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
I thought the F1 teams were using the more efficient mechanical KERS (brake energy). The average street hybrid is using electrical recovery.

Williams developed it but doesn't use it on their F1 cars, however it won the 24h of Le Mans onboard the Audis.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2558 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
This is also a 4 cylinder engine with a 10,000 rpm redline, I can't think of any v12's on sale today which can match that, plus it's small light, makes packaging easier and allows space for batteries for the electric powertrain.

I know all this stuff, thank you   

Obviously I'm struggling to make my point. No biggie.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3723 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2552 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
They are all electrical, it's just a matter of whether it's stored in batteries or a flywheel. No street system has used a flywheel yet. I think it's the better option for performance, but can be a bit problematic from a packaging standpoint.

The flywheel system is not electrical. The flywheel supplies the energy directly to the drivetrain. It is also nicely packaged.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/8763.html


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6933 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2547 times:

It's possible to make it all mechanical, but in practice in the Audi R18 e-tron it's electromechanical, and in F1 flywheel hasn't made it at all. In other applications like some trolley/bus it's purely mechanical, but it needs a specific transmission and that's probably why it doesn't work in motorsports for the moment, it's probably too difficult to make it reliable.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
25 KiwiRob : I'm not too fussed about cylinder count, two of my favourite supercars only had 6 cylinders, the Porsche 959 and the Jaguar XJ-220.
26 Revelation : All that matters to Jag is getting 200 punters to cough up the $1.1M+. You should be happy, they're letting the market decide.
27 BMI727 : There are a few survivors, I'm not sure how many though. The point is that they weren't ever sold on dealer lots like a production car and were reall
28 KiwiRob : That was only the show car, the real deal will have seats for two.
29 BMI727 : There is no production car with a flywheel. They made the GT3 R Hybrid with one seat and the 918 RSR which had a similar system, also with only one s
30 mham001 : Hard to say what Jag is talking about re KERS. They only say "developed for F1". I would have thought the flywheel since Toyota has been using the sam
31 Post contains links greasespot : Who the hell cares how much carbon or gas it eats. It's a supercar. They are supposed to be totally impractical. If not they would be driving everywhe
32 francoflier : Exactly. Their use is so anecdotal that they don't make a butt hair of a difference to the environment. I also wonder what kind of supercar buyer wou
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