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A Good Reason Not To Release Tax Returns  
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5688 times:

There has been a lot of legitimate questions on why Romney is not releasing 12 years of tax returns - a standard his own Father established. He has released one (and only one) year, with some vague promise of a second return to come at some point in the future.

Romney's refusal to measure up to his Father;s standard allows (and indirectly encourages) speculation and wild guesses of what he's hiding. Swill accounts? Sure. The Bahamas? Of course. Lots of fodder for speculation there.

But now we have a very logical reason - the desire to avoid government review of how fees were turned into fund investments. Wave that magic wand that the tax rate goes from 35% to 15%.

Now the New York Attorney General is investigating a dozen companies, including Bain Capital:

Quote:

Inquiry on Tax Strategy Adds to Scrutiny of Finance Firms

The New York attorney general is investigating whether some of the nation’s biggest private equity firms have abused a tax strategy in order to slice hundreds of millions of dollars from their tax bills, according to executives with direct knowledge of the inquiry.


The attorney general, Eric T. Schneiderman, has in recent weeks subpoenaed more than a dozen firms seeking documents that would reveal whether they converted certain management fees collected from their investors into fund investments, which are taxed at a far lower rate than ordinary income.
Quote:

The tax strategy — which is viewed as perfectly legal by some tax experts, aggressive by others and potentially illegal by some — came to light last month when hundreds of pages of Bain’s internal financial documents were made available online. The financial statements show that at least $1 billion in accumulated fees that otherwise would have been taxed as ordinary income for Bain executives had been converted into investments producing capital gains, which are subject to a federal tax of 15 percent, versus a top rate of 35 percent for ordinary income. That means the Bain partners saved more than $200 million in federal income taxes and more than $20 million in Medicare taxes.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/bu...-finance-firms.html?pagewanted=all

It's important to note that the investigation is said cover a period of time after Romney "retired", but it should be noted that Romney continues to receive money from Bain and he is not totally excluded from having "benefitted" from the shell game.

Finally, I doubt if Romney wants 12 years of returns made public for those who are investigating this shell game. or reviewed by experts (who happen to be Democrats) to see just how much Romney avoided in taxes by playing this game. Romney probably has a good reason to keep those returned hidden from the experts and the public.

256 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
But now we have a very logical reason - the desire to avoid government review of how fees were turned into fund investments. Wave that magic wand that the tax rate goes from 35% to 15%.

That's genius.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6574 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5669 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
That's genius.

Indeed! If nothing illegal has occurred, then no harm in owning up to it.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5590 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
I doubt if Romney wants 12 years of returns made public

But, let's be clear here: Democrats would be perfectly happy with just 5 years of returns. Less than half of what they origionally asked for. Even that is too much. I guess he should not live up to his father's standards. Or anyone else's....



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5561 times:

I still don't understand why releasing tax returns is such a big deal. It's a good thing that when you apply for a job and become a candidate, companies don't ask for your tax returns.

Asking for tax returns as a whole is pretty stupid and proves nothing, IMO. A time wasting task.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
Asking for tax returns as a whole is pretty stupid and proves nothing, IMO. A time wasting task.

You need to remember that it was Governor Romney that set the 12 years of returns standard.

Governor George Romney, not Governor Mitt Romney.

The benefit for the voters for a12 years of tax returns is that it lets the bean counters from both parties get to work to ensure there are no major problems.

Failure to live up to his own father's standards looks pretty concerning for Mitt. Just what is the guy hiding? How bad is it, even if "all" his actions legal?


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5539 times:

Like many, I think while part of the reason Romney is saying no to disclosing any tax returns prior to 2010 is that it would show how little in net Federal taxes he paid and cause a huge thing for Democrats to use against him, there are others familiar with tax law and how investment companies work who have thrown in other factors, they include:

How much money he made in deals when in charge of the 2002 Winter Olympics, as Governor of MA, or allegedly not longer a principal or officer of Bain despite the use of 'blind trusts'.
Penalties and taxes he paid, probably in 2009, on his Swiss bank accounts when there was a major crackdown by the IRS for them being used as a tax dodge.
Disclose other IRS tax penalties and fines or where the IRS made deals they need to keep off the public record for political reasons.
Disclose deals where his wife was involved, including more involving creative ones like the horse deal and wants to keep her out of the spotlight.
He may also be under confidential agreements with Bain that are still binding and could face huge civil liability if he were to disclose certain investments he had.
Earlier disclosures coul bring up names of his co-investors and with Bain who don't want any public disclosure for privacy, of becoming targets of Democrats and of any shady deals or backgrounds.
By saying no, he gains some cred with a number of conservatives who hate the IRS and taxation, disclosure laws, and any other mandates by private, political and governmental parties of transparency.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5538 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
Failure to live up to his own father's standards looks pretty concerning for Mitt.

I'm beyond arguing why I don't care about tax returns, but how come I keep hearing "because his father did it"? Do we live in a patriarchy and have to do everything our fathers do?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
How bad is it, even if "all" his actions legal?

I'm sure it's just him paying a very low tax rate or some other LEGAL actions, maybe some legal offshore accounts. Do you honestly think if that's all it is this will all just blow over? It's obvious that he's damned if he does, less damned if he doesn't



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5533 times:

While with Bain, Romney made his bones by borrowing huge sums of money to buy the majority stake in ailing companies with cash flow, squeezing exorbitant fees out of them while firing actual working people (in order to free up money to service the debt), and then walking away with his pockets bursting when the businesses eventually collapsed.

Now he wants to portray himself as a "builder" and "job creator" who cares about normal people. I think that he doesn't want to release the tax returns because then the public will see for themselves what kind of a Wall Street shitbird he is.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7124 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 8):
Now he wants to portray himself as a "builder" and "job creator" who cares about normal people. I think that he doesn't want to release the tax returns because then the public will see for themselves what kind of a Wall Street shitbird he is.


He does pay a low tax rate. But he does so legally and he contributes more to this country than 99.9% of the people in the U.S. whether it is in taxes, charity or even time helping people himself.

Tell, what great experiences does President Obama have? What is his jobs record?

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 8):
shitbird he is.


But this is ok?

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Now the New York Attorney General is investigating a dozen companies, including Bain Capital:


What a coincidence there huh? New York too, that's a surprise.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
but how come I keep hearing "because his father did it"?

Because it was his father, George Romney, who established that standard of releasing 12 years of tax returns.

And it was Mitt Romney who has failed to live up to his own father's standards. K guess we shouldn't be surprised.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
It's obvious that he's damned if he does, less damned if he doesn't

He deserves to be damned if he fails to release the tax returns. We then have every right to come to our own conclusions about he actions, the legality of them and the ethical standards they represent.

It would be more than fair to exclude hi from consideration in the voter's booth if there are reasonable concerns about his ethical standards.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
there are others familiar with tax law and how investment companies work who have thrown in other factors, they include:

That list is one of the best I have seen and one of the most concerning when it comes to the type of president he would make.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 10):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
but how come I keep hearing "because his father did it"?

Because it was his father, George Romney, who established that standard of releasing 12 years of tax returns.

And it was Mitt Romney who has failed to live up to his own father's standards. K guess we shouldn't be surprised.

Again, why does it matter that "his father" did it? Should he adopt everything his father does? Some of these arguments make me lol



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5475 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 9):
He does pay a low tax rate. But he does so legally and he contributes more to this country than 99.9% of the people in the U.S. whether it is in taxes, charity or even time helping people himself.


Not talking about the taxes he pays. I'm saying that he has made a fortune by jamming up vulnerable companies using borrowed money. Which is perfectly legal, but not quite building anything or putting anyone to work as he would like us to believe. It is the stock and trade of a whole class of people on Wall Street whom I consider to be shitbirds. That's one man's opinion.

Quoting flymia (Reply 9):
Tell, what great experiences does President Obama have? What is his jobs record?

Not my aim to support President Obama here. He's been President for almost a full term and should be judged on how well (or not) he has performed in that role to date.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 9):
he does so legally

Then he should not be afraid to release even 5 years of returns. If he has nothing to hide, like you claim, there would be no reason for him not to.

Quoting flymia (Reply 9):
he contributes more to this country than 99.9% of the people in the U.S.

By letting his money sit in Swiss and Cayman and Bahaman bank accounts while he simply pulls in dividend checks. Real productive, there Mitt.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6574 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5462 times:
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Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
I'm beyond arguing why I don't care about tax returns

And we are sick of hearing. YOU don't care, fine - you want a medal?

But guess what I care, and 54% of the population want to see them

http://www.gallup.com/poll/156980/mi...trengths-weaknesses-gop-stage.aspx



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5449 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 13):
Then he should not be afraid to release even 5 years of returns. If he has nothing to hide, like you claim, there would be no reason for him not to.

Again, it's foolish to think that there is nothing legal in those returns that would still make him look bad... or even worse than not revealing them. Meanwhile, there are real problems plaguing the country...

(before anyone mentions anything about loopholes, with or without him releasing his returns, opinions on loopholes and capital gains remains the same, we know he's still in favor of capital gains, etc.)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12353 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
but how come I keep hearing "because his father did it"? Do we live in a patriarchy and have to do everything our fathers do?

Ok, how about because Obama did it, and most candidates have followed the precedent going back to Romney, Sr?

Now, a question for you: if you're sure everything he did is LEGAL, then why won't he release his tax returns?

Are you afraid that a very very conservative guy is very very liberal when it comes to interpreting tax laws?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5436 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 14):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
I'm beyond arguing why I don't care about tax returns

And we are sick of hearing. YOU don't care, fine - you want a medal?

...which is why I didn't go into it like in threads past! Geez. I personally am interested in seeing them but I'm not gonna whine about seeing them and start yet another thread about it

Quoting Revelation (Reply 16):
Now, a question for you: if you're sure everything he did is LEGAL, then why won't he release his tax returns?

For the 9th time, I'm sure his returns would make him look really bad, even if it is legal. Do you think if he had a tax rate of about 8% of something and it was legal people would just be happy?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 16):
Are you afraid that a very very conservative guy is very very liberal when it comes to interpreting tax laws?

What's that supposed to mean, am I scared? I don't care who's conservative or liberal, and I'm against the low tax he's paying, just like you!  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5425 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 9):
What is his jobs record?
Quoting flymia (Reply 9):
he contributes more to this country than 99.9% of the people in the U.S.

Keep looking at money only and you're probably right. But that doesn't mean that he's paid all taxes he should. With a copy of all returns we would know how many times he has been fined by the IRS, the reasons and the amount he tried to avoid.

Quoting flymia (Reply 9):
What a coincidence there huh? New York too, that's a surprise.

Shouldn't be a surprise that a NY AG would be looking at New York companies, nor is it a surprise that Bain Capital is included in the handful of companies - Bain Capital is in New York and would be filing New York State Tax Returns.

And, looking at the $200,000,000.00 in taxes that could have been "fudged" it does make sense to get the investigation moving.

Lots of games played in that industry and I think a vigorous investigation of a lot of companies will result in more taxes paid, plus interest and fines.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
Should he adopt everything his father does?

Considering the questions raised related to hiding those returns and the potential for some major unethical conduct I would say, yes. If he wants to become President. Otherwise let him go back to playing with his money.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5409 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 14):
But guess what I care, and 54% of the population want to see them

I don't know why you would care, but what purpose does it serve just to see them? Why do you want to see them anyway? What will you gain out if it?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 4):
Asking for tax returns as a whole is pretty stupid and proves nothing, IMO. A time wasting task.

You need to remember that it was Governor Romney that set the 12 years of returns standard.

Governor George Romney, not Governor Mitt Romney.

The benefit for the voters for a12 years of tax returns is that it lets the bean counters from both parties get to work to ensure there are no major problems.

Failure to live up to his own father's standards looks pretty concerning for Mitt. Just what is the guy hiding? How bad is it, even if "all" his actions legal?


Who cares. Is the 12 year standard thing some rule or something? Is it a federal law or something? Show me where it is, in fact, law, that anyone is required to release his or her own tax returns. And for fun, why not apply this to everyone seeking any paying job. Ken, I want to see YOUR tax returns.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6574 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5403 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19):
I don't know why you would care, but what purpose does it serve just to see them? Why do you want to see them anyway? What will you gain out if it?

Because i want to. I think its important. There. Its my prerogative to decide what is important to me and what is not. and this is.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19):
Who cares. Is the 12 year standard thing some rule or something? Is it a federal law or something? Show me where it is, in fact, law, that anyone is required to release his or her own tax returns

Then why release 2 years? worth? He shouldn't have.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5395 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19):
I don't know why you would care, but what purpose does it serve just to see them? Why do you want to see them anyway? What will you gain out if it?

You're working too hard being a Romney supporter and missing the reality that a lot of people want to see those returns - especially the Independents who are growing their concern with every report - like the New York investigation.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 19):
Ken, I want to see YOUR tax returns.

LOL! I'm not running for office, but I will admit to having bank accounts in Australia when I live there. Sadly they have a higher tax rate than the US so there was no special Swill bank benefits like Romney looks to have had.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5397 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 20):
Because i want to.

Not a good answer.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 20):
I think its important.

Important, in what way? Why is it important to you? Heck, I want to see your tax returns too, because its very important to me.   

Quoting mt99 (Reply 20):
Then why release 2 years? worth? He shouldn't have.

You didn't even anwser my question. But thanks for playing.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5392 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 13):
By letting his money sit in Swiss and Cayman and Bahaman bank accounts while he simply pulls in dividend checks. Real productive, there Mitt.

Do you understand anything about how banks or investments work? That comment seems to indicate that you don't, but there's that little bit of optimism left in me that thinks no person could possibly be that incredibly stupid.

And by the way, the flow of money to offshore locations should cause Americans to look in the mirror. If you see customers going to someone else's shop, you'd better figure out why and learn to compete. Yelling at the fleeing customers will do nothing.

[Edited 2012-09-02 16:42:39]


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6574 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5385 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 22):
Quoting mt99 (Reply 20):
Because i want to.

Not a good answer.

Yes yes it is. You dont get to decide what i care about.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 22):
Important, in what way? Why is it important to you? Heck, I want to see your tax returns too, because its very important to me.   

When i run for office, i will have my tax returns hand delivered to your by a singing telegram girl

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 22):
You didn't even anwser my question. But thanks for playing.

I sure did. If there is no standard, why even release one or two years?



Step into my office, baby
25 AirframeAS : Um, duh. Im a Republican. You say that if it was a bad thing. Youre a democrat. Who cares. It doesn't bother me. Then you don't get to see anyone's t
26 mt99 : OK fine. lets take this 1 step at a time: 1. There is no law Now (step 2) answer this question: If there is no law, why did he release 2 years? How i
27 LTBEWR : Another issue for not disclosing to add to my previous list per the opinions of some into tax and corporate issues is that in 2008 & 2009, he coul
28 AirframeAS : Thank you. Now, with that said, Mitt has ZERO obligation to release any of his returns. And he shouldn't. There is no need to. It's silly and a waste
29 mt99 : Not just ANYONE.. a person who want to take be the leader of MY Country. Ill make a deal with you, you make Mitt release his tax returns, ,you can se
30 AirframeAS : I still don't see why you need to see them. They're not your business.
31 Pyrex : The what? Avoid government review? Are you saying the IRS only reviews tax filings once someone releases them publicly to the media and not, I don't
32 AirframeAS : You could say that for the U.S. as well. There are a vast majority of Americans who don't talk about how much they make and what they spend their mon
33 casinterest : Nah, I suspect the real reason is that he doesn't want to show all the writedowns in 2008 and 2009 following the crash. Coupled with all the gains he
34 Ken777 : Stand in one of the major international airports sometime. Tom Bradley Terminal at LAX is the classic case. Look at the number of people with all the
35 EA CO AS : Absolutely; because he's done a great job in keeping the focus on how lousy the economy is, and how lackluster a job President Obama has done in mana
36 Ken777 : Those returns will probably be a key factor in the election for many Independents. Hiding them presents questions that undecided voters will be looki
37 Pyrex : That is beyond the point. Plenty of Americans living overseas don't owe any money to Uncle Sam, but need to go through the draconian reporting requir
38 SmittyOne : Says the student. The fact that I have a vision of how things should be does not make me ignorant of how things are. Overeducated bullshit artists bo
39 Mir : Fixed that for you. Are we actually advocating that the government turn a blind eye to violations of regulations? And if so, how is that not advocati
40 Post contains images EA CO AS : - Unemployment still well above 8%. - A jobs report due this Friday that is projected to be very negative. - Over $5 trillion added to the national d
41 BMI727 : So banking and business isn't a trade? Or does it only count as work if you're covered in grease and dirt at the end of the day? What a neanderthal a
42 SmittyOne : You took my point too literally. They actually understood and were passionate about the business that they were supposed to be managing. They had som
43 mt99 : Is he running to the the President of my country? Yes, it better to blindly trust the word of politicians. So, for the 35th time: if there is nothing
44 Ken777 : Amazing as we lived overseas for 8 years and never had a problem. Will continue to be a battle no matter who is President. A brutal part of The Great
45 EA CO AS : Already answered, so stop asking. I thought President Obama was going to bring all those troops home? Didn't he campaign on ending those wars and bri
46 mt99 : Not it hasn't. If there is nothing wrong why not release them?
47 Pyrex : On another thread you seem to think that anyone who is not a government worker is a twit. So if government workers are so smart, why don't you trust
48 flymia : I want to see what those voters would do if they had the amount of money they would pay in taxes that Romney does. I understand that it is hard for t
49 mt99 : On other treads, you claim that all movement employees and offices are "twits" - but now you blindly trust the IRS? For the record (again) i do not t
50 Post contains images EA CO AS : So would his dental records - does he brush well, for example? Does he floss regularly and believe in good oral care? I don't hear you clamoring for
51 mt99 : I love it! Yes he should release those as well. Specially since he is running for President based on the whitness of his teeth Would that be untrue?[
52 EA CO AS : I guess the President should be considered rich and out of touch as well, then; he was a millionaire well before becoming President.
53 seb146 : Like Koch Brothers, Meg Whitman, Rush Limbaugh.. Oh, wait... You mean Wal-Mart cashiers who look at their pay checks every week and see deductions go
54 AA757MIA : Well, it shouldn't be a problem if they fill out their W4s correctly; And in most cases they get all (or even more) their money back![Edited 2012-09-
55 Post contains links and images EA CO AS : US job growth in August likely slower;hiring expected to taper off in reflection of slower economy Is that so?[Edited 2012-09-03 03:01:08][Edited 2012
56 mt99 : OK so you are admitting that Romney is out of touch!
57 Post contains images Revelation : So, what's your suggestion, that the IRS just not care about off-shore accounts? I doubt we want a to elect a President who is thinking about his exi
58 seb146 : So you admit all of us with a job pay taxes. All this time we have been bombarded with the lie that workers pay no taxes and not caring that people l
59 Pyrex : Move to a territorial system of taxation like every single country in the world other than Eritrea has. If you legitimately live abroad, you pay no U
60 BMI727 : It doesn't matter how good you are at design or development, at some point you'll need some bankers and management. Do you think you can find me one
61 Ken777 : He started in Iraq, where we never should have gone in the first place. As far a Afghanistan goes, he's on a timetable for removing troops as well. S
62 Revelation : You have your way of looking at the world, I have mine. I'm just respectful enough not to call yours ignorant. Scared? Do you need to use such insult
63 SmittyOne : You keep parsing my posts for points that you can negate out of context...not sure why you are so intent on winning an argument with an anonymous guy
64 DeltaMD90 : Again, again, again, (for the 10th time) even if there is nothing illegal... his campaign thinks showing his tax returns will hurt the campaign more
65 Revelation : It's not baffling, it just points out that: yet he himself makes his alleged business acumen the centerpiece of his campaign, when the reality of his
66 Post contains images EA CO AS : Does the IRS issue an official annual statement saying your taxes are OK? Mine? Your neighbor's? Oh that's right - they don't. You only hear about th
67 Pyrex : Why, no effort, of course. After all, Sergei Bryn didn't build that.
68 SmittyOne : Clever sound bite, but you are dodging the important point here: Read my post above regarding Bain's tactics if you want to understand how someone mi
69 DeltaMD90 : It is to some people who keep asking it. It seems glaringly obvious. I doubt he'd be hiding the fact that he pays 40% in taxes and has no off shore b
70 EA CO AS : OK so you're finally admitting the President is out of touch as well, then! Good for you for finally coming around. This is all about what his father
71 mt99 : Absolutely True. How does this experience translate into creating more jobs in the country? You are saying that he has experience at making money, bu
72 mt99 : Yay. we agree. - Romney is out of touch!.. Ill make sure to bookmark this conversation to quote it back to you sometime. (ps. you can quote me on Oba
73 Pyrex : You really don't get it, do you? A job is nothing more than a cost center, a by-product of making money, and that is the great thing about it. If you
74 mt99 : It supports my point: Romney - Jobs are secondary to profits. And while, i agree with you that the one employee does not add any value - Romney would
75 mt99 : How much "real wold experience" do you have? You remind me of my fellow MBA students from 5 years ago (gosh been that long already!. They would liste
76 SmittyOne : In your econ textbooks this is certainly true, especially when the money-making activity directly produces some worthwhile good or service. Capitalis
77 BMI727 : Because you're wrong. Except for the slight detail that it isn't flawed. In fact it can work wonderfully. When did borrowing capital to make a sound
78 windy95 : He already did. He filed with the IRS. There is nothing illegal otherwhise the IRS would of already visited him. So if it is legal then nothing is ba
79 Post contains links SmittyOne : I agree with your points in theory. In practice the key difference in Bain Capital's case is that a disproportionate profit went into their pockets t
80 EA CO AS : That's a fundamental truth of any business; without profits, you cannot have jobs. Profits allow you to re-invest in your business, hire people, and
81 SmittyOne : Agreed, but not convinced that Bain actually did this. Read that Rolling Stone article and tell me what you think.[Edited 2012-09-03 14:37:21]
82 BMI727 : Disproportionate profit? The owner of an asset is entitled to all of its profit and proceeds from the sale of said asset. Seems like a breathless att
83 Pyrex : Of course they are. Actually, he probably could have when he was the governor of Massachusetts and the fact is he didn't, probably because he had oth
84 Aesma : You can't compete with fiscal paradises, they tax far less because they get enough money that way to sustain their economies, no real country can do
85 Revelation : Seems like Sergei got lots o' gummint help: As for mom and dad:
86 EA CO AS : The Rolling Stone piece you linked talks about a few items, but let's discuss one company in particular; KB Toys. Bain Capital invested some of their
87 seb146 : Then he should release the returns and see how long (my guess is 2 days max if they are legal) it wil be a drag on his campaign. Then, it will be rig
88 seb146 : Right. So, when taxes are taken out of our pay checks (withheld) they go to the IRS. In other words: WE PAY TAXES!! I don't see what's so hard to und
89 EA CO AS : Is that so? Every job I've ever had was offered to me by a rich man or corporation owned by stockholders. I've never been given a job by a poor perso
90 mt99 : So just to be absolutly clear, this is what you are selling, this is the reason you are giving the electorate to vote for Romney: "Lets make the rich
91 BMI727 : No. The rich are rich and whether or not they become richer is none of my business or yours. It's their money and nobody else has a claim to it. Job
92 canoecarrier : To add to that every job I've ever had was created by someone who had more money than I do. I've seen people let go at least twice as the personal we
93 DeltaMD90 : Um, yes. We all know it's very low (if it's anything like the returns he released) so why not focus on his plan to "restore America?" He doesn't real
94 SmittyOne : Gentlemen, I was born at night but it wasn't last night. A 'dividend' is by definition money that is not reinvested back into a company for improveme
95 mt99 : And how is that different from what i said? Make the rich richer, corporations more profitable and PERHAPS (since its not the main goal) you will get
96 Pyrex : Excessive in whose opinion, yours? What should they have done with the cash, left it in the company so some empire-building CEO would waste it in use
97 Ken777 : If you look at successful companies (like Apple) you find that the goal is to provide a product or service and making money is the result of performi
98 DeltaMD90 : Sure, maybe 1% of my caring does. 99% of the battles I pick are over what I think is more important, bugging him for details about fixing the economy
99 seb146 : And you think someone who does that is good for the country? It took me four years (I was working on my own, but that was slim, too) to find a job. B
100 EA CO AS : Because, at the end of the day, you appear to WANT to believe that there's something "wrong" in his tax returns. That's your right, of course. I just
101 mt99 : Yes. we know you don't care; we get it. Move on.. Why you are still posting on this thread?
102 BMI727 : When you own the company, the dividend can be as much as you want it to be. You do own the place, after all. Actually, they are whether they like it
103 Pyrex : Right... that is why they send private investigators masquerading as cops to ransack people's homes. You should tell that to Wesley Snipes. Hmmm... d
104 PlanesNTrains : Having worked my entire adult life for individually owned small and mid-sized companies, I can honestly say that I would never consider owning a busi
105 EA CO AS : Or at very least, the costs imposed by them artificially raise the levels at which the decision to hire would be based; at many companies these days,
106 SmittyOne : Guilty as charged. Just too easy to get sucked into these battles that are ultimately pointless. I'll sign off of this thread by getting back to the
107 mt99 : In China? Look, in the grand scheme of things i agree with you, However, as we stand today, in early Sept 2012, with the way the world is now - what
108 Ken777 : It is generally accepted that a rich man can offer others a job. They are, after all, the Job Creators - when they get around to it. It does not mean
109 Post contains images EA CO AS : No one cares.
110 Post contains links mt99 : I care. As well about 54% of the electorate http://www.gallup.com/poll/156980/mi...trengths-weaknesses-gop-stage.aspx
111 seb146 : And I know a guy who created 250,000 jobs. Two can play that game. Let's be realistic: This "guy" you claim to know paid 46% in taxes. Romney only pa
112 AirframeAS : In other words, you want the election rigged and fixed. Yeah, okay.... By the way, to be fair, did Obsma ever have or has been asked to release his t
113 StarAC17 : That can certainly help things but a company only hires be it a big corporation or a small family owned business is because they can profit from the
114 Post contains images AirframeAS : Ummm, that's the first time I ever heard that..... Source? Ok, you got me here.... Care to explain?
115 Aesma : The solutions some here are suggesting have been applied in Spain and Italy, easy firing laws and things like that (that were alien before, unlike in
116 StarAC17 : I realized I messed this up and what I meant to say is if the rich earn more on the backs of the middle class and poor it will cause them to lose mon
117 lewis : I think he is referring to that story a while back about Apple staff impersonating police officers and going after someone who "found" a test/prototy
118 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I wish you'd quit saying that. This is a public forum I have every right to say IDC about the returns just like you can say that you care. I was resp
119 Aesma : No I mean what's happening to Greece the country because nobody wants to lend it money. That happening to the US would probably cause a remake of the
120 BMI727 : Actually it can. It can make exports easier and lower the prices of current products. You just cannot go out and create jobs, you have to create grow
121 Ken777 : The best times in my working life has been working for myself. A little one man company that I (and the better half) owned. While I would not tell ev
122 lewis : Wouldn't his income be considered below the minimum taxable, thus him getting a refund? As they should. I am very entertained by this election period
123 AirframeAS : Maybe you ought to look up the definition of "don't care". People who don't care about something does not mean that they are "scared", as you put it.
124 BMI727 : Is there anthrax in it? That's not the least bit hypocritical. The fact that he's moved money and jobs overseas shows the need for policy change to m
125 mt99 : Would he bring his of shore money back to the US if he gets elected? That would be a vote of confidence on his plans. How would you feel if he doesn'
126 lewis : I just do not see that happening, unless you are implying that the US should become a tax heaven.
127 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : ...or they don't care Don't quote me again mt99 I do wonder what Romney was thinking though... I mean, did he actually think this issue wouldn't come
128 BMI727 : First, he'd have to do more than get elected, there would have to be actual change in the policies. Second, I don't know what he would do. I wouldn't
129 mt99 : Its the ultimate "put his money where is mouth is" situation. If he trully believes in his plans, then why wouldn't the US be the most lucrative opti
130 BMI727 : It doesn't mean anything to me. I don't care whether Mitt Romney makes or loses money and for what reasons. I care whether I make or lose money. That
131 mt99 : Aww making excuses already for him? I dont either. I don't care about his money either, i care about mines. If he does not bring his money back when
132 BMI727 : Aren't we supposed to believe that things aren't better now because Obama has had to deal with the "Party of No" for half of his term and spent time
133 BMI727 : No, it's none of my business what Romney or anybody else does with their money.
134 mt99 : OK - So are you practicing the "Blame Obama" line.. Ha! Good one! Yes a Presidency that is being touted as sound Economic Policy - i would imagine tha
135 Post contains images EA CO AS : Re-read the statement; you were saying what you want. I was simply saying that no one cares what you want. (intended to be tongue-in-cheek and not me
136 BMI727 : Actually according to Democrats Obama hasn't been able to actually do much of anything due to an obstructionist Congress. Romney, of course, would be
137 mt99 : Which according to Republicans its a lie. So - why would it be true with Romney? That is why he need to do it the second he is elected. Oh i am sure
138 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : you know, BMI727 probably likes Romney as much as you do... (or me for that matter, whether you believe that or not lol)
139 BMI727 : It wouldn't be true with Romney. I don't see how anyone can advocate giving Obama another term despite his not having turned the country around in fo
140 Post contains images mt99 : Wait.. what? You should not expect Mitt's plant to work instantly, but you should vote for Obama if you are not expecting it? Maybe its late - but yo
141 Post contains links seb146 : Because we already tried that. Tax cuts with two wars (more if you count poverty, drugs, etc.) has lead us to over $16 TRILLION in debt. Yeah. That w
142 Ken777 : Unless of course the guy wants to be elected President, Then he is open to all sorts of reviews & investigations, including the ethics of his pre
143 mt99 : Congress? There is an election happening in 2 months! He doesn't need to compromise with congress today - he need to show the American people, the vo
144 BMI727 : If you expect instant results from Romney, then you should have no support for Obama who has achieved anything but instant results. You try moving al
145 AirframeAS : Sorry, I don't do Wiki for obvious reasons... Try again. And of course, if the guy wants to be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. Yeah, right. Yes, it
146 mt99 : How long would you give him? He doesn't need to do by November - he just need to promise that he would bring back his money if elected president. If
147 Post contains links mt99 : Let me google that for you: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Obama+releases+tax+returns+to+2000
148 Post contains links Revelation : Given that George Romney justified providing 12 years of returns by saying: then I guess George Romney is a witch hunter too? C'mon, it would have be
149 AirframeAS : Thank you, Gentlemen.
150 Pyrex : It is really incredible, looking at this thread, how the left seems to be all globalist when it comes to open borders and free immigration for all but
151 BMI727 : Change doesn't happen overnight. Just ask Obama. Other than the small matter of practicality. I don't care. I'm really not interested in where Romney
152 mt99 : Its really incredible, looking at your post that you have completely missed the point No - He can keep it wherever he pleases. However, if his reason
153 Post contains images Revelation : Aww, shucks! Yet it's not at all incredible to see you launch a non-sequitur, sigh...
154 mt99 : it not about his where he keeps his money. Its all about showing the American voters that plan he proposes (he has one - right?) will make America th
155 BMI727 : No, but you seem to expect the president to be enacting his policies from the start. First of all, if that's the case you should be absolutely livid
156 Ken777 : The Birthers were a which hunt after Hawaii released his birth certificate and a Republican Governor confirmed the information and the fact that Obam
157 Pyrex : His money in off-shore locations is likely there because it is invested in Bain Capital funds that are domiciled off-shore, as most-all PE and Hedge
158 PlanesNTrains : Understatement of the year. I can see the economy growing right before my eyes....oh wait, it's only the grass. Oh boy. No, he did not pay $7000 in t
159 mt99 : Would he go on vacation first? Maybe I am. If this is the case, you would be giving Obama a break - In any case, this about Romney and how he is bett
160 BMI727 : Congress might. It's not fair of you to expect Romney's policy changes to be in place and having an effect from the get go and yet still support Obam
161 mt99 : You could tell your Blind Trust managers to invest only in US based investmens. You don't need to know which ones. Are you making excuses for Obama n
162 Aesma : Considering that usually the US voter has so much interest in the religion and sex life of the candidates, focusing on tax returns seems to be an imp
163 BMI727 : Still raises the potential conflict of interest issue. And does nothing to fix the problem of how one defines "US based investment." More like pointi
164 mt99 : Well first we would have to fully understand where and how his foreign investments look like. You and Pryex have made assumption on what they are, an
165 mt99 : Hey, that not a bad idea.. BMI727 - how you feel about this one?
166 BMI727 : I really don't care. You'd better get to work. It might take a while. Even if they all work exactly as intended I don't really care for them. Give Ro
167 Post contains links mt99 : Sure. But we need Step 1 to happen first: So you don't care if they save us from this financial mess? Well Romney website says its is and investment"
168 Revelation : You certainly post a lot on a topic you repeatedly say you don't care about. Who would invest in a place with a largely uneducated and unhealthy soci
169 BMI727 : Things like GM and tossing out stimulus money isn't much in the way of salvation. It's propping up businesses which are not viable and impedes growth
170 mt99 : You would have to ask Mitt. Want his email address? Americans are mediocre? Can i quote you on that?
171 Revelation : I don't think health care is that different from core infrastructure, given how much of our national energy goes into obtaining and keeping health ca
172 Ken777 : Actually this has been a really tough year for those who actually earn a living cutting grass. They're small business people who have invested a lot
173 BMI727 : I think too many Americans are satisfied with mediocrity and have too little interest in achievement or innovation. I think that the American Dream i
174 bhill : Before I "invest" in Romney, I want to see a prospectus....and his "books"..... "Show Me The CarFax!!!"
175 Post contains images EA CO AS : Romney doesn't think there's a "problem" to solve here. There's a potential problem to be created by releasing them however, in the form of the media
176 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : The thing is, I don't care. I know that you'll twist that just like you keep twisting BMI727's repetitive responses to you, but the bottom line is it
177 seb146 : Like jobs? That we were told "give all the money to the top and they will give you a job" but never happened? Like that entitlement? Or, the fact tha
178 mt99 : Isn't that what he is going to change? Oh come on.. you dont get it? All these "bizarre" responses are from the Right's Playbook. That what has made
179 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Can I get an amen? It seems like the people that "don't care" keep getting yelled at to get off the thread... well that would make this a pretty one
180 Revelation : Nothing, but that's not what's happening here. Seems self evident to me that "I don't care" vs "I agree" or "I disagree" are quite difference stances
181 BMI727 : Caring about Romney's money seems a little bit pointless when you realize that the government would have to confiscate his entire fortune over 3,800
182 PlanesNTrains : The way you pose these little one liners is simply irritating. What do you expect me to do, predict the future? I don't know if his policies will wor
183 seb146 : Ah... So, when they say "Give all the breaks to the top so they can have money to trickle down" is not giving money to the top? Letting the top have
184 BMI727 : No it isn't. It's their money, and necessity dictates that the government take a little bit of it to pay for the necessities: defense, law enforcemen
185 PlanesNTrains : What are you talking about? It's like you are making up things to prove a point. "Give all the breaks to the top"? Who said to give all the breaks to
186 DeltaMD90 : It's what someone "on the right" once said so everyone that disagrees with him thinks this But I do disagree... I disagree that this is a big issue.
187 Revelation : Why the apocolyptic approach? If your car isn't running well, do you smash it into the wall at full throttle or do you try to fix it? Again, why the
188 seb146 : Reagan and the right-wingers whenever they talk about giving tax breaks to the job creators. They are the ones who keep saying "give the rich huge ta
189 PlanesNTrains : With 16 trillion in debt, no end of debt growth in sight, and no consensus on how to stem the tide - let alone work through most any other issue - I
190 Revelation : I suppose, but word I'm getting is that corporations are looking for greener pastures. China's lack of respect for intellectual property is driving m
191 Ken777 : Damn right. GM has turned around and is paying taxes. I guess your preference is to have more unemployed collecting unemployment checks, food stamps,
192 BMI727 : Only after getting backing from the government. If your business cannot survive without the government propping it up, then it isn't viable. First of
193 Post contains images Ken777 : Considering that corporations like GM pay a lot of taxes over a lot of years I find it wise and appropriate to ensure they continue during a difficul
194 BMI727 : So now the government is out there protecting companies so they can pay taxes? That would make the government completely out of control. It doesn't m
195 Post contains images SmittyOne : I bowed out of this thread earlier because I found myself in a stupid internet battle instead of a discussion (for which I accept "personal responsibi
196 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : ...and that is your opinion. I find it strange that I have to defend my right to have a different opinion so much, like I'm not welcome to post here
197 EA CO AS : Your point? "Saturn" and "profitable" were mutually-exclusive terms. There's a reason that division was killed off. As has been pointed out, there ar
198 seb146 : Yes, schools, but the ultra wealthy use government subsidized airports, government subsidized roads, government subsidized bridges, government subsid
199 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I didn't think 2008 was because we "give the rich huge tax breaks", I thought it was because we "give those unable to afford a home - a home"? In rea
200 Post contains links mt99 : Sorry guys,, busy couple of days.. this is is just low hanging fruit: He provided the when he was being vetted by to run for VP. And Sarah Palin was
201 seb146 : No. That was private banks given no oversight by the government to make as much money as they wanted. If the conservatives actually were conservative
202 windy95 : You pay 45%? And make sure you are not comparing Apples to Oranges. Salary Vs investment income..... Who is paying for the so called subsidies being
203 PlanesNTrains : Where did I say differently? I'm sorry that you see it as a one way street. FWIW, you keep using the term "right wing" - could you define that for me
204 seb146 : We the people. The ones who have been promised good paying jobs by way of trickle-down economics. Maybe, but no. Again: We the people who had to turn
205 AirframeAS : Again, no. He is under no obligation to release anything. There is no law requiring him to do so. You need to let this go and accept that he won't re
206 mt99 : Well he released them to McCain and not the public. And you need to accept that he is hiding something...
207 Post contains images Ken777 : That's a good idea as the alternative is for the Treasury to pay our money for all the various programs for those who have their job closed down. Mon
208 AirframeAS : Refusal to release tax documents does not mean one is hiding something.
209 mt99 : Its at least 50/50 chance - i'd say...Don't you think? But I see you trust politicians based on nothing other than their word.
210 AirframeAS : You know nothing about me. Quit being judgmental about others. And, my question still has not been answered from earlier in the thread....
211 Post contains images mt99 : I know that you are giving Romney a free pass at this. Trust me Sorry, there have been few,, and i have been busy at work.. Mind repeating it?
212 AirframeAS : How is it a free pass if releasing tax records is not required by law?? No. I asked several times and did not get an anwser. Look for it yourself.
213 mt99 : Then i guess you are not intersted in getting an answer. Sigh.. because everyone in his position done it..It beg the question: why not? Its a 2-step
214 AirframeAS : So? Just because everyone else has done it does not mean he has to. Stop it. You don't know me. Don't make gross generalizations.
215 mt99 : That right- but again (2 steps, you got the first one down.. you can do it): Why not? So you don't trust him then?
216 AirframeAS : Again, he is not obligated to do so. Why is that so difficult for you to comprehend that?! If that's not good enough for you, I don't know what would
217 mt99 : He is also not obligated to wear a shirt,, yet he does wear one.-If he were the only Presidential candidate running around shirtless (which is not ag
218 AirframeAS : You're grasping at straws here. If you really want to know why, why don't you go ask the man yourself. Pitching a fit about it here on the Internet e
219 mt99 : AirframeAS: Do you trust Mitt Romney? For some one that gets testy for not get answers to his questions, you ignore mines pretty good. Cheers to that!
220 AirframeAS : I'll anwser that question when you anwser mine. Till then - Ta!
221 mt99 : Thats OK. i wasn't expecting you to answer it.. Its pretty obvious that the answer is "yes". And i will continue with such assumption until you say o
222 seb146 : It is called 'conscience' and 'morality'. Imagine if Obama had only released one year of tax returns to the public. Or if McCain had released only on
223 BMI727 : Some of those programs need to be cut too. You cannot lump in the government giving companies development contracts for products the government will
224 EA CO AS : For the umpteenth time, investments are taxed at a lower percentage than wages to encourage people to invest. I know this may comes as quite a shock
225 Post contains images AirframeAS : Agreed! It's a two way street here..... Im still waiting on my question being answered after I repeated it a few times.
226 SmittyOne : This is absolutely true when looking at them in isolation. But these companies exist in a larger, interrelated system...which if it collapses takes d
227 mt99 : Actually, it was answered! You just ignore the response because it does not fit you agenda. EA CO AS - so you volunteered to answer my question: Do y
228 seb146 : And that would be fine. If he were investing. He has been sitting on his butt collecting dividend checks for years. Tell me again why someone who sit
229 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : As much as you love hearing from me I'll answer you, can't really speak for others, but I trust Romney as much as any other politician... no. I think
230 SmittyOne : Collecting dividend checks is by definition investing. Risking your own money - letting someone else use it for their economic purposes instead of sp
231 Ken777 : Of course not, unless you are a major politician running for President and have a REAL history of Swiss bank accounts, companies/trusts in the Bahama
232 DeltaMD90 : Or you have a hard time seeing that people that aren't die hard Romney fans don't see the need... and there are many more like me. There are more tha
233 Ken777 : Side One: He releases them Side Two: He does not release them. On election day there can be all sorts of arguments either way, but I believe Romney w
234 EA CO AS : Much more so than I trust Barack Obama, yes. And while Mitt Romney doesn't represent the "perfect candidate" for me, he represents the far better cho
235 DeltaMD90 : I'm not gonna argue semantics here, you know what I'm talking about I believe he'll fail if he does (and so does his campaign obviously.) I think he'
236 Ken777 : When the quality of the company is not the reason to invest then the investments are at a far greater risk. Growth in the value of the investment sho
237 Post contains images BMI727 : That's what depressions do. It isn't pleasant, but they always end and when they do those that survive and manage their businesses well will be in a
238 SmittyOne : Certainly. You keep explaining the most basic economic concepts to me that I already understand. You are an ardent proponent of lasseiz-faire policie
239 BMI727 : Then life sucks. You can't win them all and that's just how it goes down sometimes. I'd avoid falling in love so I can be independently wealthy. Thin
240 Post contains links Ken777 : Of course it has. Here is a good example: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...-11e1-863c-fe85c95ce4ed_story.html You might notice that Bain Capita
241 SmittyOne : LOL, best of luck with that. If you pull it off I will erect a statue of you in my front yard. Of course you can have yourself neutered, but then you
242 BMI727 : No it has not. Capital gains taxes have been less than income tax rates since 1921. The ballooning deficit has only become an issue in the past sever
243 seb146 : If/when he decides to release his returns, we will see. But, I fail to understand how letting money sit in a bank is the same thing as investing. How
244 BMI727 : Do you understand anything about what banks do and how they work? The failure to grasp even the fundamentals of the banking system has to be the only
245 SmittyOne : In theory, that is what the Swiss or Cayman bank is doing with his money on his behalf by lending it to other people...and why they pay him interest.
246 Ken777 : Sure didn't help in 1929 did it? Didn't help during the Great Depression or the Great Recession. It's like the tax free ride for health insurance. Ni
247 BMI727 : Also didn't hurt during roaring twenties, the 1950s when the middle class came into its own, the 1980s, or the tech boom of the 1990s. And quite a fe
248 seb146 : Privatizing schools so people who can't pay are just SOL with education? That sounds like a great plan! I do. Why reward people like Mitt who decide
249 BMI727 : No. Drop welfare and use some of the savings to improve education. No more free rides, but you do get an education. If you take it seriously and work
250 seb146 : You didn't understand the rest of what I wrote, apparently. It is not being used to hire Americans nor is it being lent out to small American busines
251 BMI727 : Do you really think that American banks do not do business in foreign countries? You think that being based in the US means a bank does nothing more
252 Post contains links mt99 : No - it takes work and to increase fees: "Among the fee increases the study found: Marriage licenses went from $4 to $50, driving permits from $15 to
253 PlanesNTrains : Do you have investments? I hope so, because you aren't getting any younger. Are your investments 100% domestic? If so, I'm curious why. People around
254 seb146 : So, that's it then? We are one planet and one economy so just get over it? After eight years of "only America" and "us above all" and, now we get the
255 BMI727 : No, there is a global economy and national economies now have no choice but to be a part of it. Nations are more connected than ever and several thir
256 tugger : Well you have to play the same games as what everyone else is playing. Otherwise how can you "play to win"? So can you tell exactly what "game" every
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