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Who Needs Cuba? America Or Republicans?  
User currently offlineJm-airbus320 From Jamaica, joined Aug 2000, 304 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1332 times:

Fidel said he was considering cutting ties with the US. I know many people might say, so what or don't care. But really, who does need Cuba? Is it America or is it the Republicans?

Jm-airbus320

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1317 times:

Who needs Cuba? Nobody as far as I am concerned. Overall, what does Cuba offer us? A vacation spot (there are tons better), cigars (Dominicans are better), culture (hey, its always nice to learn other cultures, but at what cost with Cuba?). And why would the republicans need Cuba? what am I missing here?

User currently offlineSwissgabe From Switzerland, joined Jan 2000, 5266 posts, RR: 33
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1313 times:

Well, another question. This topic is just another weird one...

I could also ask my self why should Switzerland need Liechtenstein, why should UK need Ireland, why should China need Hong Kong etc...

Well, I think every country has something special to offer and every country can be something special in its own way. It might be that people are not that interested in the thing a country has to offer and you might not agree with a political situation in a country but there might be people who like it and even people who are proud of their own country.

I don't have a problem if America or the Republicans (?) don't need Cuba. I like it and I would love to go there once. I only say BACARDI (which was originally from Cuba and had to move to Bahamas I think).

Cheers



Smooth as silk - Royal Orchid Service /// Suid-Afrikaanse Lugdiens - Springbok
User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 1307 times:

Certain politicians, including one residing at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. in Washington, D.C. and his brother in Tallahassee, find the Cuban status quo quite desirable.

Why? Because launching well-timed initiatives under the guise of trying to remove Fidel Castro helps secure votes in one of the country's largest states and impresses the well-funded Cuban-American National Foundation.

Of course, the status quo is quite cosy for Fidel Castro himself, in spite of his public claims to the contrary. As long as he can blame his own mismanagement on an external enemy, he can deflect attention from his own dodgy record on economic development and human rights.

In the end, for all the barbs exchanged between Washington and Havana, the U.S.-Cuban relationship is a comfortable and predictable one that serves politicians in both capitals quite well.


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1280 times:

It's all basic math.....

The top half of Florida is southern conservatives who will vote Republican until they die (and even afterward, as has been proven in the past.)

The bottom half of Florida is transplanted Northeast and Midwesterners far more moderate and receptive to Democratic ideas than the redne...uhh, northerners.

The very definition of "pivotal swing vote" are the half million Cubans in Miami-Dade and South Florida. The exiles of 40 years ago bred their affiliation to whoever hates Fidel the loudest, which, till now, has been the Republicans (and their pathetically hypocritical stance towards communist Cuba versus communist China).

That has remained the zeitgeist for a better part of the last few decades, but things are changing. The exiles are dying off and the first generation of American born Cubans have matured and are having kids of their own. Education dollars, money to fix South Florida's hopelessly overcrowded infrastructure, money for more cops...the issues that are important to everyday Americans, not just Cubans...are taking priority in their lives over how fast the Beard gets bounced.

Al Gore sensed this in the election of 2000 and actually (against the vehement opposition of his handlers) made some conciliatory gestures towards South Florida's Cubans. The strategy may have been the right idea at the wrong time (coming so fresh after the Elian saga). His efforts fell flat and many Dems think they may have cost him the election.

Cuba remains a uniquely Republican obssession.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1272 times:

No US president, democrat or republican, is going to open up trade to Cuba while Castro is still around. Why, because they would lose the Cuban vote in Florida. If you lose Florida you will more than likely lose the election.

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16285 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

Well, Canadian, European & Mexican businesses are cashing in on the US-Cuban embargo. So who really in the US is winning from the embargo? Certainly not Wall Street (or Main Street). US business will never NEED Cuba but there are substantial economic benefits that normal relations would bring.

Clearly though, Cuba has demonstrated it CAN survive without the US. Cuba has good infrastructure, fantastic resorts, great culture and a human rights record better than many US allies (Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan, China). Other than cheap politics, there is no reason for the US embargo.

The embargo is hypocritical and sullies the US image abroad. Let's face it: the US picks on Cuba because it CAN pick on Cuba.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1257 times:

I think the embargo is ridiculous. Hell, we have free trade with China, and they are Communists and have a worse human rights record than Cuba.

Fortunately it appears more and more business people are watching Canadians, Europeans, etc. clean up, and are pressuring Bush to open up Cuba. And younger Cubans in Florida are not so militantly hostile towards Castro and would like to see improved relations too.

Hopefully normalized trade relations will happen soon. The US is being foolish about Cuba.

"ooohhh let's not anger the Cubans in Florida..." give me a break.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1240 times:

If ANY U.S. president were to open trade with Cuba under Castro, it would have to be a Republican. Remember the ancient Vulcan Proverb: "Only Nixon could go to China"?  Smile Same is true with Cuba-a democrat would be crucified for trying to open trade with Cuba, and would be called "soft on communism". A Republican, however, from the party of McCarthy and Nixon, could get away with it as being an "open-minded" statesman. It's just the way it works sometime.

The embargo against Cuba is outdated and counter-productive anymore, despite Cuba's less-than-stellar human rights record. If we can trade with China, why not Cuba? Well, I can answer that-Cuba doesn't have a billion and half consumers.  Smile


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1238 times:

a democrat would be crucified for trying to open trade with Cuba

I don't see any holes in Jimmy Carter's wrists? He undertook a fairly successful trip earlier in the Spring.


User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1223 times:

Why does Canada need Quebec?

 Big grin




Word
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1214 times:

What are the pros for trading with Cuba?

It's a third world country that can't even buy medicine or shoes, so what do we have to gain?



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1212 times:

I forgot, how about life rafts  Smile


Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1201 times:

It's one of the sad byproducts of present US policy....Cubans know if they reach US soil, they can stay here. So thousands light out across the straits of Florida...arguably one of the most savage stretches of ocean in the western hemisphere. It's only 90 miles, but with a fast moving current going east/northeast fighting heavy winds blowing west, the seas get enormous...very quickly. A duckpond calm morning can turn into ferocious waves by noon.

Of course you rarely see the victims wash up because the area is positively teeming with large sharks.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1197 times:

What's really "funny" is that the Cubans in Florida send a ton of money back to Cuba each year to their families. Apparently, it is OK to give money (and send things) to Cuba ONLY if the Cubans in question are extended family members.

Of course, actually letting ALL Cubans enjoy the benefits of free trade would be horrible....  Insane


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1191 times:

I don't see any holes in Jimmy Carter's wrists? He undertook a fairly successful trip earlier in the Spring.

He is not a sitting president, Heavymetal, that's the difference. That's a BIG difference. Had he tried to do the same thing when he was living at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., the Republicans would have callled for his impeachment.


User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1192 times:

PanAm747 wrote: "It's a third world country that can't even buy medicine or shoes, so what do we have to gain?"

I've heard that Archer Daniel Midland (ADM) and Cargill Corporation, both in agribusiness, are interested in getting into Cuba. Word has it that the major fast-food chains have already picked out potential locations. U.S. travel agents and the hotel industry are bound to be interested as well -- there's an active black/gray market for Americans traveling to Cuba via Canada or Mexico that they've been denied access to, thanks to an embargo that makes for good politics but lousy policy.

Many other dirt-poor countries with human rights records worse than Cuba's are fair game for trade -- and should be, given the positive effect of trade in drawing attention to these problems.

Why not give people the option of vacationing or investing in Castro's Cuba, aside from the politically self-serving electoral and election-financing considerations?



User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1181 times:

Mcdougald:
I've figured out how to get around that stupid embargo. Big grin



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1160 times:

A lot of Americans are getting around it. One source estimated the number of Americans going to Cuba without Washington's blessing to be about 200,000 just in 1999 alone.

It underlines the fact that the embargo isn't even being taken too seriously anymore.


User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

"he top half of Florida is southern conservatives who will vote Republican until they die"

Dont be so one sided, more died in Missouri......remember that...even the candidate lol


User currently offlineZeus01 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 744 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1127 times:

Heavy metal doesn't know how not to be one sided. Thats all he knows how to do. He hates republicans, christians, democracy and anything conservitive. Go hug a tree and a socialist heavymetal and maybe Jimmy Carter.

Besides Heavy, you shouldn not want trade w/ cuba. Think what big bad america will do to globalize cuba's people. Wouldn't we cause just big corporate harm????


User currently offlineRogueTrader From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

I only say BACARDI (which was originally from Cuba and had to move to Bahamas I think).

Say BACARDI all you want and even visit the Bacardi family in Florida, where they live, unwelcome by Castro who despises all profitable ventures. (Yes, Castro's predecessor, the American backed Batista, was just as bad, another example of the US mistakenly supporting a government that cannot exist on its own: this never works)

Swissgabe, you love any nation that is on the United States enemy list, so of course you want to go to Cuba. I doubt if you have any more interest in Cuba vis-a-vis any other Caribbean nation, but since they have angered America, you like them. It must have been tragic for you when communism fell in the USSR and E. Europe so you had to take all those countries off of your 'plan to visit' list.

Your sentence I repeat above is why Cuba was put on the American enemy list - why do you think Bacardi had to move to Puerto Rico, - not the Bahamas? Because Castro eliminated all private enterprise - and destroyed a lot of infrastructure and eliminated an educated class through jail or exile that could have been used to build a Cuban democracy, which Castro promised.

BTW: I would like to visit Cuba and wish the US would eliminate all restrictions. The sanctions are just a play for S. Florida Cuban voters, still angry at Castro. Note to foreigners: US foreign policy is OFTEN controlled by the will of a small domestic group - all they have to do is be vocal. There are many cultural and economic opportunities for America in Cuba.

kind regards,

RogueTrader



User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16285 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1113 times:

Note to foreigners: US foreign policy is OFTEN controlled by the will of a small domestic group - all they have to do is be vocal.

---Well, if the majority of American voters LET this happen, then is it the will of the American people. Whether controlled by the Miami Cubans or not, the American embargo on Cuba IS for all Americans. It is also a shameful, two-faced policy given some of the undesirable murderous dictator-allies that the US govt goes to bed with each night.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1110 times:

Heavy metal doesn't know how not to be one sided.

A brief scan of some of my posts will show you that's not true.

Thats all he knows how to do. He hates republicans

The best vote I ever cast was for a Republican, and the only money I've ever given to a campaign was for a Republican.

christians

I'm one. Next.

democracy

I'm one of the millions of people who didnt vote for George Bush, was skeptical of the Florida recount decision, and, with few exceptions, aren't really crazy about how he runs the country. But he's my President.

and anything conservitive.

I don't hate anything consevative, Zeus, but I gotta tell you I don't have a lot of fondness for the mindwashed zombified kind that you seem to be growing into.

Go hug a tree and a socialist heavymetal and maybe Jimmy Carter.

Grow a public hair or two, go buy "Volume II" of "Inane Insults To Hurl At People Who Don't Agree With You"(Limbaugh Publishing, $29.95)....and while you're at it, open your mind, cause there's just a knat's dick chance that your ass will follow.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16285 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1095 times:

Swissgabe, you love any nation that is on the United States enemy list, so of course you want to go to Cuba. I doubt if you have any more interest in Cuba vis-a-vis any other Caribbean nation, but since they have angered America, you like them.

An ironic statement from someone who's anti-Israeli rants are far more virulent & hateful than the more balanced statements from Swissgabe.

Castro eliminated all private enterprise - and destroyed a lot of infrastructure and eliminated an educated class through jail or exile that could have been used to build a Cuban democracy, which Castro promised.

This shows how little you know about Cuba. Private enterprise is allowed in Cuba, albeit not with the same freedoms as in the US. Canadian & European firms are thriving in Cuba in joint ventures with the Cuban govt.

Cuba, incidently, while nationalizing all industries soon after the revolution, offered compensation to the multi-nationals.....but the US govt balked at this offer, hence US companies lost out on compensation. An interesting side-note....the US has still not compensated the British for land & assets seized during the American revolution....perhaps this should be settled first.









Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
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