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Should Obama Be Reelected?  
User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8128 times:

Should Obama be reelected? My answer is NO! Why? Because he is a HORRIBLE president and he didn't keep his promises.
What do you think? And why?

[Edited 2012-09-07 23:43:53]


I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
231 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40066 posts, RR: 74
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8123 times:

He should NOT be re-elected!


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8113 times:

Quite an aimless thread, given the bipartisanship of US politics. It is really just a question of "Are you a Republican or a Democrat"

A much more interesting question is whether anyone is changing from being a Democrat voter to a Republican as a result of Obama's presidency.


User currently offlineAeri28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 709 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8105 times:

Resoundingly YES. I could never vote for a president who has a horrible view on social issues such as women's rights, gay rights, and helping those in need. Mitt and Co just do not understand the average person in this country.


lol I probably wont return to this thread, I've stopped eating popcorn and I'd need a lot for this one.


User currently offlinearmitageshanks From UK - England, joined Dec 2003, 3645 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8101 times:

I don't think he should. I don't think he's done much to advance the economy of the country- I certainly haven't felt anything personally or seen much improvement in my community.

However, I don't think Romney is the answer either, and that's what's so difficult about all this. I definitely won't be voting for Obama, and I would not vote for Romney if the election were tomorrow. Its looking like I'll make a token vote to the Libertarian party, which I belong to.


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13748 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8086 times:
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Should Obama Be Reelected?

No, absolutely not. Quoting James Carville, "It's the Economy, stupid." And President Obama has done a disastrous job in handling it.

In thinking of the Obama Administration, I'm reminded of this quote from "The West Wing" where Republican attorney Ainsley Hayes is explaining why she would not choose to work for the Democratic Bartlet Adminstration:

"Gosh, let's see if there could possibly be any other reason why I wouldn't want to work in this White House? This White House that feels that government is better for children than parents are. That looks at forty years of degrading and humiliating free lunches handed out in a spectacularly failed effort to level the playing field and says, 'Let's try forty more.' This White House that says of anyone that points that out to them, that they are cold and mean and racist, and then accuses Republicans of using the politics of fear. This White House that loves the Bill of Rights, all of them - except the second one."

Sounds an awful lot like our current Administration, doesn't it?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAeri28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 709 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8086 times:

havne't left yet, lol.

but people seem to forget there were two crashes under republican reign. The 2001-2 period under Bush, and the 2008-09 period under Bush. I was a victim under both of those. Geez I so remember the Clinton nineties and especially 2000 when the $ was at such a high.

There is nothing anybody on here could say that would convince me Obama could have cleaned up 8 years of Republican ruin in that time. His first year alone he saw the economy crumble all around him. I so remember early 2009 and wonderingn what the he@@ was going on in the world.


User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2083 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8072 times:

Obama being reelected will only mean our dollar will appreciate even more, so as a travel and gadget loving foreigner. Vote 1 Obama!!1!

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 6):
Obama could have cleaned up 8 years of Republican ruin in that time.
Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 6):
2001-2 period under Bush,

Can you not see your fantastic inconsistency? 2001-2002 was Bush's fault and yet 2009-2012 is...still Bush's fault? Lefty logic...


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8072 times:

President Obama didn't think he should be re-elected:

"And a year from now I think people are going to see that we're starting to make some progress, but there's still going to be some pain out there. If I don't have this done in three years, then there's going to be a one-term proposition."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...09_i_will_be_held_accountable.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6agoHtqu7lg

Neither do I.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineZentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8061 times:

Quoting YankeesFan (Thread starter):

Should Obama be reelected? My answer is NO! Why? Because he is a HORRIBLE president and he didn't keep his promises.
What do you think? And why?

Pointless thread. You're not actually pointing to any specific issues or even real reasons why you think he is horrible.

Furthermore, the whole premise is nonsense. As far as the election is concerned, it's not about saying "Choice A sucks, so I can't choose that." It's more a question of "Are we better off with sucky Choice A or steaming pile of crap B?"


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13748 posts, RR: 61
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8041 times:
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Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 9):
As far as the election is concerned, it's not about saying "Choice A sucks, so I can't choose that." It's more a question of "Are we better off with sucky Choice A or steaming pile of crap B?"

Well, how does the saying go about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?  

Seeing how the last 4 years haven't worked, saying, "Let's try four more," seems a bit insane to me.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently onlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4089 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8028 times:

Yes

* Neither Romney or Ryan has alot of foreign policy experience, wich for a country like the USA who is so very much involved around the world, is essential to have..

* Anyone who thinks that the economic problems of the USA will be over by getting a new president is naiv as hell. Just like the ones who thought that Obama was actually gonna clear up the economic mess, the foreign policy and relations mess, the war mess after Bush in only one term were naiv. The economic problems of the United States are so grave, that it will take several terms, possibly several presidents, a congress that cooperates and understand the importance of putting their country in front and ahead of their personal and local community and business agendas and a patient American people.

* The US needs stability in it's leadership in order to solve the problems that it face. Changing president now is not gonna help.


User currently offlineZentraedi From Japan, joined Jun 2007, 660 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8023 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 10):

Well, how does the saying go about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?  

Read the the first part of what I wrote. You're not even expecting to have a real discussion and would rather blather on with vague, petty nonsense.

Can we actually being to discuss issue rather than reading off bumper stickers?


User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13748 posts, RR: 61
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8023 times:
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Quoting Mortyman (Reply 11):
* Neither Romney or Ryan has alot of foreign policy experience, wich for a country like the USA who is so very much involved around the world, is essential to have..

Obama had none when he was elected; your point?

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 11):
Anyone who thinks that the economic problems of the USA will be over by getting a new president is naiv as hell.

Is that so?

Signed,

The 43.9 million Americans who voted for Reagan instead of Carter in 1980.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently onlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4089 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8019 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):
Obama had none when he was elected; your point?

He had a vice president with that capability

[Edited 2012-09-08 01:32:11]

User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13748 posts, RR: 61
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8018 times:
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Quoting Zentraedi (Reply 12):
You're not even expecting to have a real discussion and would rather blather on with vague, petty nonsense.

How was what I said vague or petty?

You've opined that both are lousy choices. Fair enough, that's your opinion - however, my point is that we already know one of these lousy choices SIMPLY DID NOT WORK.

Therefore, he's no longer a lousy choice - he's a "can't-be-a-choice."

Say your car battery dies, and you happen to find one on the side of the road. Sure, that one you found may not work, but if you can only try one, you have to try it because you know the other one doesn't work at all.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15831 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7993 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
Sounds an awful lot like our current Administration, doesn't it?

Not really. First of all, when it comes to Aaron Sorkin the only way you know someone is a Repbulican is if they are either a) explicitly stated to be such and rarely do or say anything to that end or b) are a raging blowhard or a-hole.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
This White House that feels that government is better for children than parents are.

With some parents that's the case. Education and law enforcement are necessary government activities.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
This White House that loves the Bill of Rights, all of them - except the second one."

Obama has actually done basically nothing to restrict access to firearms. Why the right wing thinks he's coming to take their guns away is beyond me, seeing as the Brady Campaign has seen fit to give him an F on their report card. People keep insisting that Obama is hell bent on disarming Americans, but there's just nothing to indicate that to be the case.

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 6):
but people seem to forget there were two crashes under republican reign.

The time in between wasn't so bad, although some of it was a bubble.

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 6):
The 2001-2 period under Bush,

9/11 had something to do with that. And for what it's worth, the tech bubble was built up and began to burst under Clinton, not unlike the housing bubble and Bush.

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 6):
Geez I so remember the Clinton nineties and especially 2000 when the $ was at such a high.

The meteoric rise of the internet (and the bubble on top of it) isn't really something that you can really pin on the president.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 11):
* Neither Romney or Ryan has alot of foreign policy experience, wich for a country like the USA who is so very much involved around the world, is essential to have..

People leveled the same criticism at Obama in 2008. Clinton did not have much foreign policy experience either.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13748 posts, RR: 61
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7990 times:
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Quoting Mortyman (Reply 14):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):Obama had none when he was elected; your point?
He had a vice president with that capability

While Biden has been in the Senate forever, he was Chair of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations for just two years. That's it. Then-Senator Obama didn't even serve one term in the Senate.

Romney was Governor of Massachusetts for four years, was a corporate CEO and the CEO of the 2002 Winter Olympics. Ryan has been in the House since 1999.

I'd say in the area of foreign policy experience, Romney and Ryan are on-par with the credentials of Obama/Biden in 2008.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently onlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 4089 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7981 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):
I'd say in the area of foreign policy experience, Romney and Ryan are on-par with the credentials of Obama/Biden in 2008.

Perhaps back in 2008, but today in 2012 ?


User currently offlineklmcedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7956 times:

So is there anyone here who voted for him 4 years ago, but won't this time?
That would be interesting to know. I suspect that these avid nay sayers on here where barking up exactly the same tree
four years ago.


User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1412 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7954 times:

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 2):

A much more interesting question is whether anyone is changing from being a Democrat voter to a Republican as a result of Obama's presidency.

Superfly is the only one I know of, though I'm sure there are more. And while this has happened, for each of him, there is one of me, who has gone the other direction, as a result of the sheer lunacy of the tea party and the GOP's endorsement and adoption of their extremist ideals. I really didn't have a problem with the likes of Regan or Bush I. But I doubt either of those two would run as GOP members today.

Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 3):
Mitt and Co just do not understand the average person in this country.

Correct.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 7):

Can you not see your fantastic inconsistency? 2001-2002 was Bush's fault and yet 2009-2012 is...still Bush's fault? Lefty logic...

Or it was really just that bad. We don't often see damage that bad, I admit. I didn't vote for Obama in 2008, but the shear unrepentant nature of the GOP for the harm they've caused last decade, and are now attempting again (since 2010) has more or less terminated their legitimacy here. The issue isn't that Obama hasn't done a "good enough" job solving these problems since 2008, it's that the GOP still insists that there are no problems for middle class americans in the first place.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 18):

Perhaps back in 2008, but today in 2012 ?

Yeah, I think they're fine here. Not only that, but their obviously much faster learners than the GOP choices are. The Obama administration has spent the last term mending fences and building alliances the GOP contenders would not have attempted. In fact, these folks call activities like that "weak" or "unamurrikan." Really shows what we're having to deal with here...



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13748 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7937 times:
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Quoting Mortyman (Reply 18):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 17):I'd say in the area of foreign policy experience, Romney and Ryan are on-par with the credentials of Obama/Biden in 2008.
Perhaps back in 2008, but today in 2012 ?

Nice try; re-read what you wrote:

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 14):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 13):Obama had none when he was elected; your point?
He had a vice president with that capability

In other words, we were talking solely about the candidates' electability from a foreign policy perspective, and you implied that Obama was fine in foreign policy in 2008 because of Biden's presence. If that duo was acceptable from a foreign policy perspective then, Romney/Ryan would be equally as acceptable from a foreign policy perspective today.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7934 times:

Statements like "We should not worry about how much money we have but how much we help our community".

and

"There is no connection between financial wealth and success, It's how you help others that count"

scare me. They come across to me as socialistic.

And even though the pundits say it is going to be a very close race, Michelle Obama has said that there is no chance at all that they will lose. Barrack Obama WILL be reelected!


Obamacare? Ha!

And I saw a report on the news that said Obama has only performed 35% of his 2008 campaign promises. Promise them everything give them little seems to be the order of the day!

And I still want to know how he could afford to go to Columbia and Harvard just after making $12,000 per year working in Chicago as a housing and community activist!

No vote for Obama, The Manchurian Candidate here.

[Edited 2012-09-08 03:44:04]

User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1412 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7922 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 22):

And I saw a report on the news that said Obama has only performed 35% of his 2008 campaign promises. Promise them everything give them little seems to be the order of the day!

Just out of curiosity, do we have similar numbers for other presidents? This is relevant as it would benchmark what should be expected here.

Quoting type-rated (Reply 22):

And I still want to know how he could afford to go to Columbia and Harvard just after making $12,000 per year working in Chicago as a housing and community activist!

And this implies what exactly? Are you saying he had a good deal of scholarships? Or maybe that he was somehow exempted from his Student Loan obligations? What is this supposed to be getting at?



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12593 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7914 times:

In answer to the thread, my answer would be "yes", because I don't trust Romney/Ryan (Ryaney?) on social issues; four years of more Republican rule would only serve to copperfasten social divisions - more wealth concentrated in the top 1-5% and the rest of the population be damned. And God only knows how they'd stuff up foreign policy. I still have a strong suspicion that Romney's meeting with Netanyahu may have committed him to support an Israeli attack on Iran; basically, Romney will sub-contract US Middle East policy to the Neocons and the Israelis, with someone like Bolton as Secretary of State. Yeah, that's going to end well ...

Has Obama been a disappointment? Some might argue that, BUT given the mess left by THE MOST disastrous US government in history, in almost every possible way, it was always going to be a tall order to repair the damage in a four year period.

There is a bigger worry here, however. It's like Responsible Adult and Irresponsible Adult. Irresponsible Adult (guess which party) plays fast and loose with the country's finances, taxation system and foreign policy, leaving an appalling mess behind. Responsible Adult comes, finds an awful mess, tries to tidy it, but gets derided and mocked, ironically by Irresponsible Adult (among others) for not cleaning up the mess left behind, and then, Irresponsible Adult could (potentially) get back in, make an even bigger mess, and so you had a downward spiral; this is what I fear is happening at the moment. Obama is acting as Responsible Adult and no-one really likes to be told to tidy up after a wild party, but someone has to do it. There is nothing about Ryaney that suggests that they will be any better than Bush, so the warning lights are there. The fact that they will decrease taxes for the rich, abolish Obamacare and continue an essentially neocon foreign policy must ring some alarm bells. Hopefully, there will be enough to stop them getting in.


25 cmf : The relevant saying is: The grass isn't greener on the other side. The Republican marketing machine keeps repeating: Are you better today than you we
26 PanHAM : [quote=Mortyman,reply=11]* Neither Romney or Ryan has alot of foreign policy experience, wich for a country like the USA who is so very much involved
27 Rara : You know, people often say that, "we have to choose the lesser of two evils" etc. I totally disagree with that. Look at the coming election. US citiz
28 Superfly : I am a Democrat that will vote for Romney this November.
29 Mir : Has he, though? Would McCain have done better had he been elected in 2008? Would Romney have done better had he won the primary in 2008 and then the
30 mt99 : And" let go back to what caused the original problem" - seem even worse! Which was bailed out by the Fed Govmt. And how did he do there? Was he a goo
31 LTBEWR : I have never elected a Republican for President or any Federal office since I started to vote in 1972 and that won't change this year. I do have very
32 mt99 : I just saw a news report that feature an "undecided voter" - her complain about Obama is the he did not stand up strong enough to Wall Street in 2009.
33 DeltaMD90 : I think this thread would have been less inane if it asked "Do you think the President should be reelected, despite how you feel about Mitt Romney?" B
34 garnetpalmetto : 1) He went to Columbia *before* he worked in Chicago 2) The same way anybody goes to a college they couldn't otherwise afford - financial aid via sch
35 Superfly : Prove it.
36 Post contains images SmittyOne : Unless you're afraid that that the battery you found (by the looks of it) is going to leak acid all over your engine compartment, trash your battery
37 type-rated : Oh, that's right, he went to Columbia as "Barry Sarento" as a foreign student before coming to Chicago. When was it that he spent quite a bit of time
38 Post contains images flyguy89 : Yesterday's jobs report was really a scathing, objective indictment of the failures of Obama's economic policies. People can try to spin it however th
39 Post contains images PSA53 : One or two promises not kept i can see.But most of them."Yes, We Can" went to "No,You Didn't" Also,in simplified form: 1)800,000 job visa's given to
40 2707200X : I am voting for Obama because sets tax cuts for middle class, expand healthcare to those who can't afford it, not start pointless wars of political id
41 KiwiRob : Equally can you disprove it?
42 AirPacific747 : Yes Obama should be re-elected. He may not be the greatest president, but the alternative seems far worse.
43 Post contains images Superfly : Most of which are for the Obama re-election campaign. Those clowns selling Obama shirts will blame Bush again when they're out of a job after the ele
44 Post contains images Ken777 : I'm voting for Obama - again. While some may disagree, I consider myself a moderate independent. I voted for both Bush I & II in the first campaig
45 Post contains links Superfly : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZCsfyaOGdw
46 windy95 : Hell no!!!!!!!!!! Sorry the Tech bubble and economy decline started well before he took office. Toss in 9/11 and he was dealt a bad hand to start wit
47 SmittyOne : What specific actions by President Romney do you think would reverse this? Leaving religion out of politics would have been better. Personally I blam
48 Superfly : I'm curious what passport he used. Off the top of my head; Obamacare and FATCA. Actually we are half way there. The voters tossed out a lot of member
49 EA CO AS : You're in luck then; George W. Bush isn't running in this election. Start one.
50 Post contains links NoUFO : I swear I wanted to keep out of this. But then came this line, and I would like to - no have to - challenge Superfly where and when Obama insulted Am
51 Post contains images Ken777 : I believe Obama will be far happier to release the cancelled checks for student loan payments than Romney will be for releasing his tax returns. Romn
52 Post contains images flyguy89 : 1) Pro-growth tax policies: Reducing marginal rates for individuals and families in ALL income tax brackets to stimulate spending and economic growth
53 2707200X : Obamacare is better that death by insurance company. A lot of things to laugh about in the absurdity of right wing thinking, I've been laughing since
54 PSA53 : Sorry,the Republicans never have supported more dependence but being independent from government.Obama and the democrats wants to turn us into anothe
55 2707200X : Government Photo ID at DMV, that is the equivalent of a pool tax, why not utility ID, school ID. How come it is only as issue now, not 10 years ago?
56 BMI727 : Not if you get it for free, which some states offer for the homeless, disabled, and elderly. Just spend the nickel per person for free government ID
57 Ken777 : Bush lowered taxes and where has that led us? The Great Recession and massive national debt. Maybe we should go back to the Clinton tax levels and se
58 Acheron : Gee, you just described 99.9% of politicians in the world. If that's your criteria, you shouldn't vote at all since I doubt there are that many polit
59 Ken777 : Where do you think a homeless person will be able to keep his or her birth certificate? And the elderly? How about that 91 year old WWII vet that Flo
60 EA CO AS : Look up the phrase post hoc, ergo propter hoc to see why this statement is bullshit.
61 Flighty : Based on foreign policy alone, Obama must be re-elected. Other issues are not as important.
62 Flighty : At least Paul Ryan (and Mitt, in his past) are willing to apply fairly serious engineering methodology to the US budget. A balanced budget solution e
63 BMI727 : These people just don't fall from the sky. Pretty much everyone has a paper trail: birth certificate, discharge papers, etc. Some places offer ID to
64 EA CO AS : Explain; be specific. Is that so? Signed, The 46.7 million Americans on food stamps due to the lousy economy
65 Post contains links and images flyguy89 : *cough* *cough* Do you not recall the post 9/11 recession and how the economy powered out of it and the markets were regularly making record gains? N
66 Post contains images flyguy89 : He's referring to a speech Obama made in Germany when he was a candidate, saying something to the effect that the US has been arrogant. I don't know
67 Ken777 : Cute. How long have you been saving that one? Reality? Because of Bush/Cheney we have ben given The GReat Recession as well as a 10 Year War that was
68 stasisLAX : Yes, because he's a known element. Romney/Ryan is too radical in how they would govern, which will cause chaos with some portions of the American pub
69 Post contains links Superfly : Correction. It was in Strasbourg, France. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iFAzd1Flgw
70 Mir : Eventually it would have. But the pain would have been a lot worse had GM and the banks hit rock bottom rather than being stabilized. If that happens
71 PanHAM : Not at all. What I mentioned is a big part of the personality of the candidate and that gives me the creeps. A lot of what a President decides is bas
72 NoUFO : No, he had not! Follow the link I posted to listen to his speech or to read the full transcript. This part illustrates the American- European relatio
73 windy95 : 173K new food stamp recipients this month. Real unemployment at 19%. A record 89 million no longer in the workforce. The list keps on going. Are you
74 NoUFO : "In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world. Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with
75 Post contains images varigb707 : YES ! Four More Years...
76 Post contains links mt99 : Yes - it in his past tax returns. You know, the ones that every Presidential Candidate, including Mitt Romenys father, have releases. See, there is v
77 Flighty : I am saying cut a trillion or more annually from the budget. The emergency 9/11 and stimulus spending was never meant to continue this long. The prot
78 2707200X : I was once, I did as good a job as I did when not working union so no I am not in a union. Why shouldn't teachers, fire fighters and police be allowe
79 flyguy89 : ...and who was it that made it profitable for the private sector to do what it did? Which entity was it that created a system that rewarded packaged
80 Ken777 : Actually that is interesting, simply because it comes after the "Old Europe" comment from Rummy - our ever so stupid SecDef. Hard as it is for a lot
81 Aesma : If I was voting in the US I would have voted Obama in 2008 and would do the same again. If we forget Sarah Palin, I'm sure McCain could have been a de
82 Post contains images texan : I'm not a huge Obama fan, although I was four years ago. But out of the two options in mainstream politics he is the least bad choice. Now if only we
83 Mir : Stop all political donations from corporations as well and I'll go along with that. I never said it was solely because of tax cuts. It was because of
84 NoUFO : That's exactly what Obama said - both in Berlin and Strasbourg. Superfly, however, insinuated that Obama was catering to those anti-American sentimen
85 flyguy89 : I'm going to go ahead and call bull on you being some sort of "objective" "moderate" "independent" voter. You say you voted for Reagan, then for Obam
86 Mir : His numbers don't add up. I can't really call that trying. More taxes = more revenue. Combine that with spending cuts, and you've got a deficit reduc
87 tugger : And so you are ready to readjust all the unemployment numbers from all the previous administrations? Because they all use the same basic calculation
88 kngkyle : People are far too shortsighted when looking at economics. Contrary to what many liberals believe, the economic crash was not because of Bush. It was
89 flyguy89 : The CBO would disagree with you. In their analysis they found his budget proposal would balance the budget by 2030 and reduce the amount of public de
90 flyguy89 : The CBO would disagree with you. In their analysis they found his budget proposal would balance the budget by 2030 and reduce the amount of public de
91 Post contains images soon7x7 : No, and if he were to be re-elected, why should the American voter feel he will out perform his first term? ...He can't run for another term so like B
92 Post contains images PanHAM : The old joke is, that many Americans don't know that there is a planet outside the US. With that, he would be classified in most European countries a
93 Aesma : I'd say the opposite is true. He would have nothing to lose and would like to let something for history (and I think his love for his country and cou
94 Rara : One thing's for sure... Obama's second term could become quite a ride.
95 mt99 : I don't think so. Obama would not be illegible to run again - and the right hates Obama. Once he wins (crosses fingers). May the focus shifts from hu
96 Rara : No, I mean by him, not by others. One thing I expect from a second term are major foreign-policy breakthroughs. Seeing that he's got the domestic iss
97 Ken777 : AIG. You are forgetting that the US economy is also impacted by international factors - like the turmoil in Europe. Remember Europe? An important tra
98 tommy767 : No. Absolutely not. I didn't believe the BS four years ago, and I sure as hell don't believe it now. Lot's of empty promises and buyers remorse. That
99 flyguy89 : Three words for you: Government Sponsored Enterprise. Despite the problems in the Eurozone, the US dollar is still considerably weak against the Euro
100 mt99 : Well, if Government is to be run like a "business" - then it should be able to "invest" freely in anything that will turn a profit. No?
101 Post contains links and images garnetpalmetto : http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=news/local&id=8633390 Obama told students that he knows something about student debt - saying he and his
102 PSA53 : Yeah,I agree with that,too.The debates is the pivotal point for Romney.I'm all in with Romney and like you and FLY, I did buy into Obama four years a
103 Post contains images Ken777 : Wasn't a problem in hte early 70s with the 235 program, but we had banks & mortgage companies with a higher level of ethics than we saw earlier.
104 Post contains images flyguy89 : No, never to the extent where government politicking and cronyism affects the business decisions of the firm...we see how well this worked for Olympi
105 mt99 : "Business is Business" - profits above all else. That's the way to run a Government if you ask me! Wait - there is not cronyism in Private companies?
106 Post contains images flyguy89 : Key difference being that it's not tax-payer money being sloshed around, and if there is cronyism it's usually at a long-term detriment to a private
107 mt99 : Why not? If that is where the profits are - why shouldn't it be? So you don't want the Government to be run like a Business...
108 garnetpalmetto : That's a pretty good talking point, but it's a myth as well. In fact the Dems only had a super majority in the Senate for about 24 working days. To b
109 flyguy89 : Because government is inherently unable to be run like a true business unless it's some micro-state like Monaco or Andorra. The government's goal sho
110 MadameConcorde : It will make no difference for me who wins or loses but I say Obama will win. The devil you know is better than the war puppet you don't. It will be i
111 PSA53 : What is an example of Obama's broken promises: In 2008,Obama campaigns and will promise to close down Guantanamo.That Gitmo is an embarrassment to the
112 mt99 : Did you want Gitmo closed?
113 Post contains images Ken777 : If you go back to the famous Bikini graph you won't need to ask that question. If you worked for GM, its suppliers and it's dealers you don't ned to
114 casinterest : Obama should be reelected. The Alternative is a person that is not transparent about his taxes or the tax loopholes he would close to raise revenue w
115 majestic477 : Do you guys think all there is about foreign policy is meddling in other countries affairs. In the 80s that was fine because there was the cold warand
116 BN747 : The problem you're overlooking is this - like it or not, the US is the World's Leader (or Policeman)..like it or not, that is the way it is. Being th
117 BMI727 : No. The government should be run like a business in the sense that they need to work more efficiently to squeeze the most out of every dollar and pay
118 Ken777 : Like HP is that professional at running a business these days? How many CEOs have they had. How many billions did one of those CEOs (the broad) blow
119 EA CO AS : You mean he rammed it down the collective throats of the American people, the majority of which were against it.
120 mt99 : Same can be said for the war in Iraq..
121 EA CO AS : Except wars eventually end.
122 Post contains links mt99 : Tell that to the soldiers at the VA.. In any case - so as long as it is temporary, its OK to be shoved down the countries throat? Good to know. Also,
123 Mir : If it can be followed. The problem, and what I meant by "numbers don't add up", is that it can't. Its expectations of what government spending can be
124 flyguy89 : Sing it Glenn Beck! Where's the chalkboard? At the expense and subsidization of the tax payer. How much are they making on that new Chevy Volt? Oh ri
125 Mir : You say that as if the founders really wanted women to be able to vote, but thought it wouldn't fly socially, which is quite a stretch. I don't think
126 Post contains images Ken777 : Why not? All a profit means is that less taxes would be needed for the same level of services. And I like the idea of government competing with priva
127 flyguy89 : That part is purely your opinion, of course those numbers can only be reached IF his provisions are followed. But again, you may disagree on parts of
128 Post contains images BMI727 : Because it's not their place. The government is there to keep the track wet, not bet on horses. But there's a bigger reason: it's because government
129 Mir : Okay, he put out a plan. But this isn't kindergarten; there's no such thing as an A for effort. If the plan is flawed (and it is), you can't just wav
130 flyguy89 : You're right, this isn't kindergarten where the Democrats wouldn't even have received an A for effort as they haven't turned ANYTHING in. I'll ask ag
131 DarkSnowyNight : It's a good thing you know her so well, isn't it? Against it because it didn't go far enough. Had it contained a public option, and had insurance com
132 BMI727 : And been liquidated at which points assets that did have value would have been purchased and reorganized. How many millions of dollars do you think g
133 EA CO AS : And those two provisions were ones that the majority of the country supported. It was the rest of that POS bill they didn't want. Are you seriously g
134 Mir : So you're saying that they have a plan. You may not like it, but if you're going to say that Ryan is trying on the basis that he has proposed somethi
135 flyguy89 : Really? So despite the fact that the individual mandate is far and away the most unpopular part of the bill, the public hates it because it didn't go
136 Post contains images EA CO AS : Which means the bill should have been scrapped and Congress should have drafted something better. You go back to the drawing board when your initial
137 DarkSnowyNight : The problem with the mandate (among many), is that it is, in essence, a tax. There is no real penalty for not having health insurance, other than tha
138 Post contains links BN747 : And here is how it starts... Imagine Romney at a George W Bush Fundraiser for him...this is worse http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...fund-raiser-
139 na : Absolutely, especially looking at what ridiculous alternative there is. Obama surely disappointed in his first run, but he disappointed naive people
140 casinterest : People are still not sure what it means. I happen to be one of the few who actually remembers how high costs were going prior to 2010. Plus if you ar
141 Ken777 : Who will be getting their money back. This is different than, say, Alaska's Bridge to Nowhere. The bridge wasn't built, but the state kept the money.
142 flyguy89 : And that is very much the crux of the issue, the way this bill was "sold" to the American people was that it wasn't a tax...how many times did Obama
143 Post contains links BN747 : ...and another predictable outcome comes calling Sheldon Adelson Stands To Get $2 Billion Tax Cut If Mitt Romney Is Elected: Report http://www.huffin
144 windy95 : You mean Mitt can change the tax code by himself? And thanks for the Huffington link....
145 tugger : I dunno, many here seem to imply that President Obama could have and should have changed all sorts of things all by himself..... So why not a Preside
146 zckls04 : That's a rather revisionist version of history I have to say. Reagan was far more centrist than the version of Romney we're seeing now. Maybe a littl
147 flyguy89 : No, it's not. Rather the Left are the ones who like to be revisionist, trying to create this narrative that Reagan was more a centrist to fit their p
148 Post contains images EA CO AS : Pose? Was there a camera nearby that you were showing off for? If so, was your body positioning meant to be interpreted a certain way that I somehow
149 Ken777 : Close. I would have preferred a tax for core health care - with private insurance covering the luxuries. Far cheaper and far more effective in moving
150 Post contains links Mir : $3.6 trillion is not a drop in the bucket. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/19/us...ut-deficit-will-trim-spending.html -Mir
151 Mir : And you don't say "I'm going to keep the stuff you like in this, but you won't have to pay for it anymore." That's not exactly a model of fiscal resp
152 zckls04 : Religion and taxes are the most obvious candidates. There's a reason Reagan owed some of his support to so-called "Reagan Democrats". How many "Romne
153 flyguy89 : Well considering that, according to the article, $1.5 trillion is the number projected to be raised over 10 years with the tax increases (even though
154 Mir : Ok, so you don't like the plan. But you can't say he hasn't put anything out there. -Mir
155 casinterest : ANd go look at what happened to the deficit. You know the definition of insanity right? Well the republicans have been doing the same thing ,cut taxe
156 flyguy89 : Is it a clear, concise, outlined plan with solid, numerical targets to balance the budget by "X" date in time? No. The Democrats have no comparable p
157 zckls04 : The same pro-life guy who appointed the often pro-choice Sandra DOC to the supreme court despite a campaign pledge not to do so? Why do you think the
158 flyguy89 : Because at the time of her appointment she was actually seen as a conservative who occasionally voted with the more progressive judges, it wasn't unt
159 casinterest : And that is different from what Romney is proposing and Bush did how? The Defiecit would have gone up less with more revenue. Just pretending defense
160 Post contains links casinterest : So it appears FoxNews own poll has the President ahead by 5 points. What is especially crushing for Romney is the Giant move in Independent voters pri
161 Post contains links flyguy89 : What do you even mean? Tax revenues nearly doubled WITH the tax cuts, they had higher taxes previously before Reagan cut them, yet were collecting le
162 casinterest : You remember somehting called inflation? Tax Cuts helped drive up the deficit since if you don't have revenue you can't cover new spending. This is s
163 zckls04 : And made up the shortfall elsewhere. Tax cuts balanced by tax rises (or revenue enhancements as they were known) and closing of loopholes, i.e. redis
164 Post contains images flyguy89 : I do, and it went down under Reagan, but what difference does that make when tax receipts nearly doubled, especially during a time of inflation going
165 Mir : Nor is Ryan's, since its predictions are based on crazy optimism at best. -Mir
166 Post contains images casinterest : I am so glad you finally brought this up, because it shows exactly what Romney and Ryan are planning . Reagen's Tax "cut" in 1986 raised the bottom t
167 flyguy89 : And you're conveniently leaving out the fact that when Reagan came into office there were 16 tax brackets, the lowest tax rate being 14% and the high
168 casinterest : He still raised the base rate , which affected everyone. True enough. But i am still not convinced to vote for Romney. This whole thread continues so
169 flyguy89 : For the single digit percentage of tax-payers that were in the old 14% bracket which most certainly is NOT everyone. Again, for 90+% of tax payers in
170 Rara : So, I've done a quick head-count... Of the 37 people who participated in this thread with an opinion about the opening question, - 25 said or implied
171 pvjin : Yes he should be re-elected. He might not be perfect but at least he's better than Mitt Romney or any other greedy Republican. At least Obama has trie
172 zckls04 : Hard to tell given the fact that we don't know what version of Mitt Romney's many faces is the real one, but even now I think he'd probably be in fav
173 flyguy89 : That just calls for FAR too much speculation to draw any type of conclusion on what a politician would do/believe in a different era. The electorate
174 Post contains links mt99 : No but he increasing "fees" and even wanted to institute a $10 Certificate of Blindness for blind people. Smaller government - right? "now costs to b
175 flyguy89 : Never claimed otherwise. As I said, increasing or implementing user fees and closing loopholes is an area on which compromise is possible regarding r
176 Post contains images zckls04 : As you would say, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think he's too socially conservative at heart to do so even now. He even opposes civil unions fo
177 Ken777 : So she matured in office. Maybe that is a good thing. Which shows just how little the guy can be trusted - no tax increases, but huge User fees are a
178 Post contains images flyguy89 : Tax receipts continued to increase rapidly, yet as you point out here, defense spending began to out-pace it, that's a spending problem not a revenue
179 zckls04 : I'm not sure how to answer this- I'm not implying anything other than what I stated. Indicative of what? Where did all this money come from? Again, w
180 Darksnowynight : Then they should have found a career that didn't involve gouging folks for a service they may or may not provide, on a whim. Like I said, the net los
181 pu : No. Reagan believed God was a personal matter and was discreet with religion. Reagan didn't mention God 10 x a day, was ambivalent about the abortion
182 flyguy89 : You had stated that his tax cuts did not add up, seeming to imply that they helped drive deficits or had no impact, but then went on to qualify that
183 pu : Very incorrect. { BTW, you are ...what...reading this on some website? or someone told you this history of the 80s?} ... For those of us who were her
184 Post contains links flyguy89 : Really? I'm just telling you what he did and what he said he believed. He wrote an entire book about it while president, hardly lip service: http://b
185 Darksnowynight : Unless you meant something completely other, all I can say what a deliberately misleading and willfully inaccurate thing to type. You don't get to te
186 Conti764 : I find it amusing that everytime issues about the election come up, republicans point out to Reagan. Yes, he was a great president, no democrat would
187 soon7x7 : Regarding international diplomacy...when a President does not take a stand on an issue or feigns weakness, this too can equally be dangerous. Diploma
188 n229nw : For real? I would certainly dispute that, and I am far, far, far, from alone. Reagan was largely a disaster reconstructed as a "great president" by R
189 flyguy89 : ...and you have absolutely no moral authority to make such a pronouncement. It is neither your place nor the government's place to dictate to people
190 pu : No, Reagan was not obsessed with abortion like today's Republicans. I am not aware of the book you referenced but the 'emancipation' you cite was wri
191 Post contains images flyguy89 : I didn't say that he was 'obsessed' with it, but "Abortion and the Conscience of a Nation" was a big deal at the time as not many sitting presidents
192 pu : No, it was not! I promise you, this is an obscure essay you've discovered! I challenge you to ask anyone over the age of 40 who is not an abortion nu
193 EA CO AS : And yet poll after poll of the American people continue to rank Reagan as either the best U.S. President of all time, or one of the best. Your argume
194 Darksnowynight : Can't quote single lines from Mobile, so we'll have to live with this... Your polls by necessity are not relevant given that they ignore the millions
195 flyguy89 : Fair enough, I wasn't alive during that era so I can't really grasp the political atmosphere of the time, but that still doesn't abrogate what he sta
196 Ken777 : The government does "confiscate your private wealth" for all sorts of programs, like Defense. It's called taxes and it's actually in the Constitution
197 flyguy89 : What are you arguing here? Where did I say the government doesn't or shouldn't tax? Yes I'm well aware of the taxing authority under the Constitution
198 Ken777 : You're considering taxes to be the same as "confiscating your wealth" You aren't paying 50+% of your income to taxes so why use that analogy? I've of
199 n229nw : Hmmm...well. There are two different kinds of polls. One is of historians and political scientists, and those polls vary highly, often putting Reagan
200 Ken777 : I have read where Reagan was intellectually lazy, which may have been the reasons for all the problems of his administration - like Iran/Contra. The
201 Post contains images BN747 : Couldn't have stated it better myself.. a totally revisionist re-creation. He called ketchup a vegetable. But more insulting was how he got into offi
202 DeltaMD90 : ...says BN747?? Look I wasn't there, but I've seen many Democrats come across the aisle and say he wasn't that bad of a guy, a decent president, just
203 Aaron747 : Anyway, back to the thread topic... I believe Obama is the best choice given the other choice is Romney, but this is really the lesser of two evils, j
204 flyguy89 : There always comes a point when taxes become too confiscatory and if he was able to balance the budget without sponging more wealth from the private
205 tugger : You do realize it was only because of a government mandate/requirement don't you? The USG had frozen civilian salaries during the war (WWII) and so t
206 flyguy89 : Nowhere in your explanation did I see that the government mandated that employers provide their employees with health insurance. Oh so you're enjoyin
207 tugger : That's because I didn't, and neither did the government. So you are seeing it correctly. Has nothing to do with "enjoying", it has entirely to do wit
208 Post contains links qantas077 : after watching this I suspect more will start to side with Obama...Romney pretty much sealed his fate with this speech. I think Obama out-raised him
209 Cerecl : Does the GOP have no better candidate who at least is able to conceal what he really thinks until after the election? (OK the question is rhetorical)
210 flyguy89 : So why would it be the right thing for the government to mandate employers provide all of their employees with health insurance nowadays? If it were
211 stasisLAX : I think Romney just tipped his hand as to his true feelings on the electorate, and likely just scared the hell out of a huge chunk of the independent
212 Rara : That should be it, right? After this video, is there any chance left for him?
213 Pellegrine : Yes. He is a good president and is better than the other option.
214 Darksnowynight : Doesn't look like it. I'll wager you didn't see the total disaster-rific mess that were our primaries this year. A quick glance upthread will show th
215 L-188 : Hiw many ways can i say it English, No, German, Nien, French,Non, Russian, Нует And for you who learned Gangsta instead of english, Hellz-no
216 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : My non-partisan thought is that Obama will be reelected for a second term but this does not say so. Program that has correctly predicted the President
217 BN747 : Should Obama Be Reelected? Looks like it's a given..Romney has just lightened up his campaign schedule. It seems all the hard work he advocates and cl
218 DeltaMD90 : I see models from time to time that have accurately predicted presidents for XXX years, I take them with a grain of salt. I mean you have in-trade th
219 Post contains links MadameConcorde : The ‘man on the street’ interviews of Obama supporters that will make you cringe. Howard Stern says it’s pretty funny… and if it weren’t so
220 pu : Which will be cancelled out by the sheep who vote for Romney. The 2 major American parties each have their intellectual elite and billionaire backers
221 DeltaMD90 : I wouldn't go that far, it's just that most people politically fall somewhere where the choice is evident. Then you have a small percentage who's vie
222 pu : I think the ability to get re-elected is a bigger problem than the two party system. There is not a politician in Washington or Berlin or even Pyongy
223 BMI727 : It's not a problem because the parties don't believe anything, candidates do. It doesn't matter if the US has one party, two, or a dozen: none of the
224 DeltaMD90 : I wouldn't say that. Look at how much Romney changed, for example, in order to win the Republican primary. Even if you don't buy that, the fact that
225 BMI727 : Only if you don't vote in primaries.
226 DeltaMD90 : I suppose, it's just a convoluted way of doing IMO. Puts Libertarians and others at a disadvantage
227 Ken777 : And don't employers get help to achieve that goal? I have no doubt that Obama (and many others) would have preferred "Medicare For All" system (with
228 einsteinboricua : I can't vote (thank you electoral college) and since this thread began as an 'I hate Obama just because; therefore, he should not be reelected' thread
229 Ken777 : Don't feel bad. With the Electoral College in place the votes of many are pretty worthless. I live in Oklahoma, which is going GOP regardless of the
230 DeltaMD90 : I think popular vote would be very effective IMO. I just saw an article where the President's campaign adviser said they really don't care about camp
231 einsteinboricua : It's the simple fact that the Electoral College is the system where states send delegates to elect the president. Unless something is done so that th
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