stasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3266 posts, RR: 6 Posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7756 times:
The U.S. embassy in Cairo were attacked today by furious Muslim crowds because of a film that attacks the prophet Muhammad. An anti-Muslim (and Egyptian national) Coptic Christian religious campaigner now based in the United States posted clips on YouTube that "depicts Muhammad as a fraud, and shows him having sex and calling for massacres" according to the NY Times. Reports on CNN state that one American has been killed at the U.S. State Department consulate in Benghazi, and that Libya security forces are "struggling to restore order" in Benghazi, while the crowd continues to loot the consulate and refuses to vacate the premises. The Embassy in Cairo is apparently surrounded by angry protestors.
My question is that the film was posted to YouTube on July 2, 2012. Why did these violent protests take place on September 11th - to prove a point?? The poster and producer of the film in an EGYTIAN..... so attack the United States Embassies? I simply fail to understand the connection....
lewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3441 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7719 times:
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): Reports on CNN state that one American has been killed at the embassy in Cairo
According to the Guardian, the man died in Benghazi. Also from the same article:
Quote: Reuters reporters on the scene could see looters raiding the compound, walking off with desks, chairs and washing machines.[quote]
[quote=stasisLAX,reply=0]I simply fail to understand the connection....
I simply fail to see why anyone has to put up with that or die, whenever something gets published or uploaded online, whether that is on the same day or months later.
tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 4629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 3, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7709 times:
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): so attack the United States Embassies? I simply fail to understand the connection....
We are the "great satan" and many there choose to believe that. I mean, heck, we are willing and able to mock sacred religious figures without reprisal in our country, we operate under law that supersedes religious mandates, we must be bad.
It is certainly easier to blame and attack a foreign entity that you perceive as imposing it's views on you since you know they will do everything they can to not attack you back. Certainly much easier than attacking your own government or people when you know they will fight back and throw you in jail and even shoot you for this kind of stuff.
Tugg
[Edited 2012-09-11 17:11:30]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
stasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3266 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7707 times:
Quoting lewis (Reply 1): According to the Guardian, the man died in Benghazi. Also from the same article:
CNN has now corrected their reporting - the death occurred at the Benghazi consulate - and they cannot yet independently confirm the victim was indeed an American....
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
fr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 4238 posts, RR: 12 Reply 7, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7612 times:
And, what do we do? Condemn the moron that made the movie.
The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions.
What is wrong with apologising? With critisising hate speech against Islam?
Reacting in a a more ego-satisfying way, borrowing a page from the Dick Cheney playbook and using force, is precisely why America has lost its wealth and thousands of citizens in worthless wars in the desert. America kept in power the brutal undemocratic dictator Hosni Mubarek for decades, its a surprise the Egyptians haven't invaded the embassy entirely and taken everyone prisoner like the Iranians in 1979 did for the US keeping the brutal Shah in power.
fr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 4238 posts, RR: 12 Reply 9, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7588 times:
Quoting pu (Reply 8): What is wrong with apologising?
Quite simply, when you apologize, you condone. We're telling these folks that it's ok to storm the compound, it's our fault. We'll do better next time.
I didn't say bomb the place. I didn't say send in SEAL Team 6. I didn't say close the place and cease diplomatic relations with Egypt.
At the minimum, I would have liked a strongly worded condemnation of the attacks and a demand to the Egyptian government that those responsible be held accountable.
But, what we get is some mealy mouthed condemnation of a person exercising his free speech.
pu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 642 posts, RR: 12 Reply 10, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 7570 times:
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9): At the minimum, I would have liked a strongly worded condemnation of the attacks and a demand to the Egyptian government that those responsible be held accountable.
Since you seem big on accepting responsibility, are you ready to have America accept reponsibility for keeping a brutal dictator in power? Are you ready to compensate victims of Mubarek's regime or their families? Why do you get so unhinged about a protest but so easily overlook the vast damage America has subsidised in Egypt at the hands of Mubarek? Isn't this like Iran, where history only begins for you when a victimised people take action against the foreign interventionist? ...as the history of America's actions in he Middle East that causes anti- American sentiment is unknown or ignored....
I repeat: America is lucky the embassy isn't overrun and every American held hostage for what the USA has done in Egypt. If Obama manages fo keep this relatively calm and only in terms of protests, its a victory for the USA! Putting American macho egos and pride aside is doing whats best for the future.
us330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3741 posts, RR: 15 Reply 11, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7544 times:
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7): What about the misguided indivduals that stormed the walls and entered the compound? You know, the sovereign territory of the United States?
Diplomacy's a difficult enterprise. Note that this was a public statement oriented towards the masses--you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Right now the Embassy is just trying to stabilize the situation, and further infuriating the groups of people that stormed the embassy is counterproductive to that aim.
Just because the State Dept isn't publically issuing any statements condemning the action doesn't mean that they haven't done so (and more) to relevant Egyptian officials.
fr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 4238 posts, RR: 12 Reply 12, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7535 times:
Quite simply, this isn't about Mubarek and his regime. This is anger against defiling the name and image of The Prophet, just like the Danish cartoons a few years ago.
The 'protesters' themselves claim that they are defending The Prophet. That, this is in response to someone producing a movie that, apparently, is hateful to Islam.
"This is a very simple reaction to harming our prophet," "Worshippers of the Cross, leave the Prophet Muhammad alone."
I will add, that this article now quotes Secretary Clinton as strongly condemning the attack in Benghazi (where an American was killed and the US Consulate burned). She also said:
"Some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to inflammatory material posted on the Internet. The United States deplores any intentional effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. Our commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. But let me be clear: There is never any justification for violent acts of this kind."
Still smacks a little bit of 'blame the producers, not the rioters' but better than nothing.
Mr. Bacile and Mr. Sadek are exercising their right to free speech. In fact, the rioters, acknowledge that he has a right to free speech, and they claim a right to free action.
One slogan scrawled on the walls of the embassy, which is near Tahrir Square where Egyptians revolted against Mubarak, said: "If your freedom of speech has no limits, may you accept our freedom of action."
Quokkas From Australia, joined Jan 2012, 1355 posts, RR: 9 Reply 13, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7517 times:
Have those that forment violence forgotten that which they preach?
"It is no concern of yours whether He will forgive or punish them. They are
wrongdoers. His is all that the heavens and the earth contain. He pardons
whom He will and punishes whom He pleases. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
Sura: 3, Ayat: 128-129
Whatever Bacile's motives may have been, they do not justify the violence aimed at the US Embassy in Cairo and the US Consulate in Benghazi (assuming the two incidents were linked). Whoever is behind these attacks is likely to be trying to enhance their own political standing by inciting mob rule. Their actions do no service to Muslims in particular or Egyptians/ Libyans in general. By inciting violence they simply confirm in the eyes of many that Muslims are irrational and full of hate.
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
pu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 642 posts, RR: 12 Reply 14, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7510 times:
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 12):
Quite simply, this isn't about Mubarek and his regime
My god, do you accept any responsibility for yourself and American foreign policy?
Really, you sound like Paul Wolfowitz or Karl Rove always trying to blame America's troubles on foreigners, especially Muslims. Here's the top line in their playbook: "Its easy to convince people Muslims are to blame for America's problems in cases where America shares the blame since the small minded segment of Americans can not cope with admiting America made a mistake."
This protest is nominally about a movie, but it is just the straw that broke the camel's back - the culmination of decades of animosity against America for its murderous foreign policiy in Egypt. God forbid you realise Muslims are angry at America for its foreign policy and nothing else! The history of this event does not begin when your ego is bruised and it makes Fox News, it began long ago. ...but its easier to blame others than take responsibility for America's actions, so carry on...
How many people did Mubarek kill and which foreign power kept him in place? What should the Egyptians do about that?
iFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 380 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7509 times:
Quoting mham001 (Reply 5): Just another example of why we need to lose our oil addiction and abandon the entire region. Let them fester back in the 7th century, I don't care.
Yeah that'll do it, cut off the governments money to supply their armies and then have anarchy fall upon the country. I don't think we want another Somalia.
I personally am okay with the protesting. We let people protest things that they want to here so over there its hypocritical to say stop that.
The storming of the embassy and the attacking the consulate is where I have the problem. That's a threat to our sovereignty, and if we were to do that here we would be shot by the guards of whatever embassy it was on sight. So I don't get why the Marines that are stationed there didn't do more to stop it, and why the Egyptian riot police did nothing either.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14310 posts, RR: 26 Reply 17, posted (8 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7504 times:
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7): The Embassy of the United States in Cairo condemns the continuing efforts by misguided individuals to hurt the religious feelings of Muslims – as we condemn efforts to offend believers of all religions.
I don't see anything wrong with that. Say we don't condone hate speech, but we do protect the rights of people to say it and will not apologize for that.
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7): What about the misguided indivduals that stormed the walls and entered the compound?
Condemnation is not a finite resource.
Quoting pu (Reply 10): I repeat: America is lucky the embassy isn't overrun and every American held hostage for what the USA has done in Egypt.
The Egyptians are lucky that hasn't happened too. Uncle Sam giveth and Uncle Sam can taketh away. And giveth to other people... I wonder if the Israelis would be interested in more weapons?
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 12): One slogan scrawled on the walls of the embassy, which is near Tahrir Square where Egyptians revolted against Mubarak, said: "If your freedom of speech has no limits, may you accept our freedom of action."
I'm pretty sure the Egyptians can paint their country however they like.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
fr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 4238 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7478 times:
Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 15): I personally am okay with the protesting. We let people protest things that they want to here so over there its hypocritical to say stop that.
I have absolutely no problem with protests, so long as they remain peaceful.
Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 15): So I don't get why the Marines that are stationed there didn't do more to stop it, and why the Egyptian riot police did nothing either.
It didn't require a Marine response (at least in Egypt). No American was threatened or injured. The actual building was not occupied. I'm not sure what the Marines' orders are in this type of situation, but I doubt their orders are to engage anyone coming over the wall. Probably more along the lines of self-defense and defense of embassy personnel.
As for the Egyptians, apparently the thing got out of hand rather quickly.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17): I'm pretty sure the Egyptians can paint their country however they like
Actually, not their country. The wall and the compound are considered US sovereign territory. Look, they can scrawl whatever they want on the walls (our's or their's) but, they're (or, the misguided person(s) that did the writing) telling us that they will answer our folks exercising their freedom of speech with 'action' and that we should accept that. It's a threat.
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2346 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7397 times:
Quoting mham001 (Reply 5): Just another example of why we need to lose our oil addiction and abandon the entire region. Let them fester back in the 7th century, I don't care.
Interesting !
Entire region ?
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 9): But, what we get is some mealy mouthed condemnation of a person exercising his free speech.
Like we see exercised, in the U.S of A, every day of the week !
Quoting pu (Reply 10): Since you seem big on accepting responsibility, are you ready to have America accept reponsibility for keeping a brutal dictator in power?
OHHHHH...
Let's not even go there.
Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 15): I personally am okay with the protesting. We let people protest things that they want to here so over there its hypocritical to say stop that.
"Free speech" USA style ?
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17): The Egyptians are lucky that hasn't happened too. Uncle Sam giveth and Uncle Sam can taketh away. And giveth to other people... I wonder if the Israelis would be interested in more weapons?
And how many more millions/Billions, of U.S dollars, to prop another regime, in the "region" !
Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
Rara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 1823 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7345 times:
Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
It is certainly easier to blame and attack a foreign entity that you perceive as imposing it's views on you since you know they will do everything they can to not attack you back. Certainly much easier than attacking your own government or people when you know they will fight back and throw you in jail and even shoot you for this kind of stuff.
Yeah, let's not forget what kind of crap those people hear from their own agitators and incendiaries, those radical imams who spread vicious rumors and inflame people as best they could. During the Danish cartoons affair, polls among protesters in Islamic countries revealed that they had totally distorted beliefs of what had actually happened.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 20): Yeah your welcome, Egypt and Libya, for supporting your individual revolutions! We thoroughly appreciate the attacks against our embassies
... support which came when we absolutely couldn't continue supporting the despots with whom we had so conveniently worked in the decades before, because they promised us stability and to keep Islamists in check.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
LTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12328 posts, RR: 12 Reply 24, posted (8 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7336 times:
It is being reported that the US Ambassador and 3 others have been killed in Libya. This is very bad.
It is stupid to attack and kill us, but as other posters have noted, our policies for generations in the Islamic world supporting despots that murdered too many of their own citizens set off by an alleged insult of Islam have caused these attacks.
Even the previous killings of Embassy/consulate personal and attacks on diplomatic facilities in Egypt triggered comments by Romney, condemning Obama that came late on 9/11 although they were not to be released until after midnight. This is going to be the wild card out of nowhere issue that could affect our Presidential race, especially with the threats of Israel attacking Iran before the election.
So what can be done? Arrest the producers of the alleged video and hang then in a public square? Pass laws censoring our media, YouTube and the Internet to prevent anything critical as to Islam? Send 1000's of troops to protect our embassies in the Islamic world? Abandon our posts in those countries? It is a very disturbing thought of what it will cost us in lives and our daily lives.
25 flymia: At least no one was killed in Egypt. The attack in Libyawas disgusting, 4 people killed including the ambassador of Libya someonewho only wanted to he
26 pvjin: Not the first time when someone releases something insulting towards Islam and gets his nationals killed, happened already with that cartoon in Denmar
27 OzGlobal: I find it hard to respect a 'religion' which inspires its adherents to unlimited violence at the first sign of offence. I saw one count of 109 verses
28 SOBHI51: I presume you did not read posting # 23
29 pvjin: Well if you look into history of Christianity you can see that it's full of violence too... Myself I find pretty much every religion originated from M
30 Quokkas: From the link provided by SOBHI51: "Libyan Deputy Prime Minister Mustafa Abushagur said Stevens was "a friend of Libya, and we are shocked at the the
31 tu204: As sad as this is, I totally saw this coming. And this would not have happened should the Insane Colonel still be in power.
32 fr8mech: So, effectively, you say that we (people who enjoy free speech) should shut up as to not offend? What happens when the extremists take issue with our
33 Dreadnought: These murders cannot be justified by US foreign policy "supporting despots", and shame on you for trying. The US was against Qaddafi for a generation
34 Mir: This had nothing to do with Mubarak, it was over a depiction of Muhammad. The only relevant troubles America has here is that its embassies were stor
35 pvjin: Making people die just for sake of freedom of speech makes no sense to me, especially when all these movies and other things are made just to insult
36 starbuk7: These same movies are made about every other religion and you do not see them storming other countries embassies!! Freedom of speech must remain free
37 Mir: The only ones making people die are those who committed these attacks. What you're basically saying is that people in the Middle East are primed to k
38 pvjin: Well I doubt it's going to stop soon. As long as there are plenty of uneducated people who can be brainwashed by religious fanatics there will be peop
39 757gb: RIP to the victims. I'm deeply saddened and also enraged. Well said. That kind twisted logic was the one used by people all over to justify 9/11. The
40 Mir: The best way to fight against them is for the US to stay out of it and let their fellow countrymen and neighbors show them the error of their ways an
41 thegreatRDU: Se what happens when you overthrow a peaceful government with a savage one? Under Ghaddafi everything was fine...it seems as it if where only yesterda
42 ImperialEagle: I don't care what the movie is about! This kind of behavior is totally unacceptable. Civilized people do not go about killing people just because they
43 slider: The Marines in Cairo were given an order to stand down whilst watching OUR flag be desecrated, torn down and replaced with a black al Qaeda flag. I gu
44 pvjin: Where's freedom of speech now? If making a movie that insults group of people is OK then surely also burning humiliating a flag and replacing it with
45 na: Exactly, history, the PAST. Mute to bring it on the table each time masses of stupid muslims go nuts TODAY. Imho too many Muslims are too busy diggin
46 thegreatRDU: That's nice Slider haha What's up with these gung ho neocons? I bet if you saw funerals and grieving families at Fort Bragg or I bet if you ever serv
47 pvjin: Yeah blame whole Arabic world for 9/11, that's very intelligent. Also motives behind 9/11 were not religious but about politics. After WW2 United Sta
48 Mir: That flag is US property. If people want to go and buy their own flag and burn it, I really couldn't care less. I care quite a bit more when the flag
49 Rara: Yes that would have been a great outcome. A piece of cloth would have been saved and many people (likely more Americans as well) would have lost thei
50 pvjin: At least in my country shooting people for destroying property isn't allowed.
51 mham001: Actually, Libya is the fruit of European policy. Libya will prove to be a colossal blunder and Obama will need to accept the blame for tagging along.
52 Acheron: RIP to the deceased. Sure... Anyway, you'd think by now the West would have figured out that pulling this kind of crap in the Middle East and Africa d
53 AviRaider: Every country has a right to protect it's sovereign territory. I don't know if it would have been justified in this case though until the facts becom
54 pvjin: Destroying piece of cloth in sovereign territory is different thing than stealing a human being from sovereign territory. Well there are better metho
55 slider: It's not just a piece of cloth. It's our sovereignty. You are aware of what am embassy is, right? Freedom of speech for thee, but not for me, right?
56 pvjin: And unfortunately hunger of oil is what keeps United States getting involved in these regions. In Rwanda government committed huge genocide and US di
57 LMP737: I don't know why you even bothered mentioning his name. As Vice President the only real power he had was casting a tie breaking vote in the Senate.
58 QFA380: This is a phenomenal occurrence, happening on 9/11 to boot. When will the west wake up and realise that this is how Muslims behave, as instructed by t
59 mham001: Of course it's easy for you to overlook the fact that you have benefited immensely from that as well, isn't it? Nevertheless, that is why the main pr
60 cmf: Do you realize how much you sound like the people you condemn? Well said.[Edited 2012-09-12 08:24:20]
61 na: Where did I say so? I was talking of masses of stupid muslims. Nowhere I said that this is the same as the majority, and even less so the "whole Arab
62 pvjin: Well you said "One more 9/11 and the Arabic world is no more.", which to me seemed like blaming whole Arabic world for terrorism.
63 Aesma: Well, bullets and bombs won't educate anyone.
64 757gb: That is just it isn't it? Things are never right or wrong in themselves, it all depends who does them or whom they are done too. Everything is relati
65 thediplomat: It is an act of war, if carried out by orders of the state. Way back, The IRA killed the UK ambassador to Ireland. This was a terrorist act, not done
66 casinterest: you do realize your arguments are basically condoning the attacks on the embassy over a movie right? Just want to make sure you are ok with this logi
67 slider: Peace through strength does however. Teddy said it best when he advocated to walk softly and carry a big stick. Pray that we never have to use it. Bu
68 pvjin: Even during more aggressive period of time, when Bush was in power terrorist attacks still happened frequently. Most of these extremists highly belie
69 thediplomat: Lets not run away with this. 99.999999999999999999999999999999% of muslims are peaceful people. All this talk of act of war is just crazy. The on the
70 AirframeAS: Apologizing only gets you so far, if any. It still does not solve a damn thing because the problem is still there even after one apologizes. An apolo
71 thediplomat: But it calms the situation. If the marines had shot people, the embassy would be in flames now, and hundreds of people killed. Shame on Romney for ma
72 mham001: If that were true, these things would not be happening.
73 AirframeAS: Not always, my friend. Not always.......
74 starbuk7: This is said over and over again but those same 99.99% never round up the extremists and prosecute them to prove to the rest of the world that Islam
75 na: Saying that and blaming are two different pair of shoes. Terrorism is epidemic in the violent muslim world, and another big scale terrorism attack li
76 thediplomat: Did 99.9999999% of Irish round up the IRA for twenty years? No - its always someone elses job. Guys, all I'm saying is that don't judge everyone by t
77 starbuk7: When idiots do that kind of crap in this country they get rounded up, arrested, and thrown in jail. It does not get ignored to let happen again. This
78 KBJCpilot: So I guess the Religion of Peace has pushed the POTUS into a corner that he is unpreprepared for. Perhaps he should hold a beer summit or a reach back
79 RussianJet: Maybe 'worshippers of the cross' hailing from Egypt will be a little more inclined to leave Muslims alone when the day comes that they can worship at
80 Rara: Yeah, what should we have done? Use our force and influence to keep Arab dictators in power? When the Arab Spring came about, every commentator knew
82 casinterest: Golf clap for the neocons. who want to rush into a religious holy war with those looking to start one.
83 AirframeAS: If it were up to me, I'd pull out of the Middle East region as a whole, including closing all U.S. Embassies. It seems to me that 90% of those Mid-Ea
84 SOBHI51: What i am hearing now, is that the producer of the movie is an Israeli-American citizen. The film cost of 5 Million was covered by 10 Jewish persons.
85 starbuk7: Just as the movie The Last Temptation of Christ was provocation. Christians complained but did not go out damaging property and killing people. I und
86 Asturias: ...yeah, but there may be more than a little truth to that impression. That's one knee-jerk reaction! Granted US foreign policy has bred many bad thi
87 lewis: That is a joke right? Gee, I wonder why. It was probably meant to provoke. I have seen a lot of films, comedy shows and cartoons that are offensive t
88 casinterest: Yeah, just a few problems with that . Oil , Israel, Commerical and Military trade. It's the reason we have diplomats.
89 SOBHI51: Knowing your past views on Islam, but still i wonder from where did you come up with those numbers?
90 SOBHI51: At that is also a criminal act. If you know that your deliberate provocation will lead to killing then you are guilty by association.
91 AirframeAS: We shouldn't be dealing with the Middle East, period. The majority of those countries cannot get on with the program. So why should we help them if t
92 N766UA: Hear it constantly, NEVER see it. Human lives were taken again today because of a YOUTUBE VIDEO. There is no argument here, there is no discussion an
93 Asturias: Even those on MSNBC?? That story doesn't hold much water, that film can't have been made for more than 100 thousand dollars and that is assuming some
94 N766UA: I disagree, because that's much too vague a reason. A guy can make a video of his opinion and put it on the internet with no motive other than to get
95 mham001: Insulting religions is not a criminal act in free countries.
96 N766UA: Screw the book, individuals are to blame. I really don't care if the Koran preaches peace and love or death and destruction, it doesn't matter. How y
97 lewis: No. There is no law that prohibits people from exercising their rights. The fact that it leads to killing lies in mental problems of a small part of
98 SOBHI51: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/09/12/wo...assy-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 The movie was made by Sam Bacile, an Israeli-American real-estate developer,
99 BN747: The Ambassador died from smoke inhalation while assisting in evacuating the compound. He wasn't killed per se. If he had a heart attack, you don't say
100 us330: Not to go off on a tangent, but Indonesia does have a problem containing violence by some of the more devout/fundamentalist Muslims against Indonesia
101 SOBHI51: My point is, if you deliberately provoke people knowing very well the way they will react, then you a part of the problem.
102 N766UA: If you're punching someone in the face, yes. If you're having an opinion, no. Not at all. Let me ask you this: are you able to justify murder like th
103 N766UA: That has nothing to do with it, though I will point out that 1/3rd is a LOT. OPEC is powerful because it can regulate the cost of our oil, even oil w
104 SOBHI51: I am against violence in any form or shape. But there is others from all religions who do not share my ideas. No i can not justify murder, but knowin
105 lewis: Although I do get your point, I cannot agree with it, sorry. If I had to choose between limiting the rights of people in western countries or some Mu
106 SOBHI51: Ignorant, barbaric people describe them better, i am sorry to say.
107 lewis: On that I agree fully! And keep in mind that I do not judge those people for being offended, I do not agree with the violence that comes with it. A p
108 N766UA: I don't see any "continued attacks." Some A-hole's opinion is not an attack or a provocation. Storming a sovereign embassy and murdering the ambassad
109 mham001: It was clearly documented at the time that the whole "uprising" began at the instigation of Islamists. And without the help of the US, the Euros woul
110 pvjin: Just mentioning that this film was made or funded by Jewish individuals is not anti-semitism.
111 mham001: One of the dead officials reported that the Libyan guards were outside snapping pictures. On Tuesday, Sean Smith, a Foreign Service Information Manage
112 pu: Try not to take this as an insult because you have the opportunity to help the rest of the world understand you better. This is the part many non-Ame
113 N766UA: Well, we have so much crap to deal with at home why do we need a bunch of religious zealots making it worse?! And you do realize where all that viole
114 flymia: So if I light a home on fire and the people inside that house die I did not kill them? What kind of statement is that, blowing something up and killi
115 N766UA: Who made the stupid movie is inconsequential, there's obviously a motive behind mentioning it that specifically.
116 casinterest: It's a world economy, and world interests. We can't stick our heads in the sand without getting our butts chewed off. You can't paint every country a
117 AirframeAS: Not when a certain group plays the game correctly or refuse to even play the game.
118 casinterest: So you want to blame whole countries for the acts of Al-Quaeda ? Countries we have supported in their moves to over throw dictators, in the name of d
119 AirframeAS: It's a start. Countries like Pakistan, for example, has zero interest in fighting terrorism. They harbor them.
120 Asturias: Curiously it holds as much water as claiming 99.99% of muslims are peace loving individuals or that islam is a religion of peace. Heh sure, it was ju
121 Dreadnought: An ambassador has been murdered and an embassy ransacked - something that cannot go unresponded to. The new Libyan government has apologized for allo
122 N766UA: Predator + Hellfire has been a pretty effective equation lately.
123 canoecarrier: I have no sympathy for anyone involved in this. Any person from any other country that makes excuses for this is lying to themselves. No ambassador fr
124 Rara: No disagreement from me. Go ahead and do that. The thing is that this isn't in America's interest, so they're not going to. But I'd be the last perso
125 stasisLAX: Watching CNN news. The Obama Administration is stating that "justice will be served" on the attackers. The Benghazi consolate attack was a coordinate
126 AirframeAS: If that were true, they would have given up OBL long ago instead of Seal Team 6 doing it for them. Actions speak louder than words.
127 pvjin: Hah yeah, exactly these kinds of stupid actions in the pasts have boosted worldwide terrorism very much. People who have promoted these kinds of acti
128 N766UA: Talk is talk, it never warrants this kind of reaction. And, hey I dunno, but they aren't exactly refuting his argument with this kind of attack.
129 N766UA: Yeah, but they'd be dead. They can bestow whatever grand title they want upon them, they're still off the planet.
130 Asturias: Are you actively provocating them? Do you think your life would be safe if you were? That was a rhetorical question, because the commentators there h
131 lewis: I do not need to look it up. Yeah, Muslim empires were tolerant to non-Muslims (and only to Jews and Christians), as long as they paid their dhimmi t
132 stasisLAX: Unfortunately, it may be getting to the point that the United States needs to negotiate with host countries to allow 24/7 armed drone CAP's over US e
133 Asturias: Also claiming they were tolerant is a misguided romaticism made up in the late 19th century. They were brutal, severely injust and tyrants - but as y
134 pvjin: Well they were very tolerant when compared to Christians of that and also much later times. In my opinion Christianity, Islam, Judaism, all are equal
135 casinterest: A month or two? The Government is working on it, and they will set up security. This isn't like Afghanistan that told us to piss off. You oversimplif
136 flanker: Here are pictures of the dead Ambassador ... http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c9e_1347458606 At this point I can't see this being an attack over a movie
139 Mortyman: You can use yahoo search function and get a picture of him there ...[Edited 2012-09-12 14:27:30]
140 BN747: And incredibly nonsensical analogy. If you did as you've written. You deserve to be charged with murder. The Ambassador wasn't there at the time of t
141 N766UA: What?! Are you equating a terror attack to making a film or burning a book? Please tell me you don't consider these to be equal.
142 TheCommodore: Not right Dreadnaught. Its been well reported in the past... US support for now fallen regimes, not just Libyan but Egypt as well. In 2006, the US st
143 BN747: How that conclusion is reached is beyond me. It is a religious mob if spontaneous as perviously thought It is 'a terrorist attack' if it was 'a plann
144 N766UA: Which is predominantly a reflection upon those being stirred. If a child is crying on an airplane and a stranger kills the child, do you partly blame
145 N766UA: Yeah, and nobody should give a crap about their motive because they're ASSHOLES. This is exactly why it's a problem. Muslims need to learn to write o
146 dragon-wings: And of course Romney is criticizing Obama over this incident and his overall foregin policy. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...-obama-over-cairo-
147 SOBHI51: It was on CNN and Wall street Journal, i did not made it up. SO when you say This was uncalled for, i do not have any anti-Semites feeling against th
148 AirframeAS: No they are not. If they were cooperating with us, they would have given up OBL long ago. And I disagree with you. I disagree.
149 N766UA: Me too, I think it's vinegar first, THEN honey!
150 TheCommodore: You only stated what is being widely reported in every paper Ive read. It's amazing isn't it, that each and every time Israel is called/mentioned, th
152 N766UA: Because he wanted to, and they wanted to fund it? Seriously who cares?! Dude you HAVE TO they SAW YOUR HEAD OFF otherwise it's called a fatwa!!![Edit
153 SOBHI51: I would not hold my breath waiting for a honest answer.
154 TheCommodore: This one. http://www.cfr.org/public-diplomacy/...-engagement-global-problems/p10247 Ask the surviving relatives of the Ambassador... I bet they care
155 N766UA: So you already have an idea of what an "honest answer" would be, and it's obviously something grossly negative otherwise nobody would have any proble
156 SOBHI51: I for one. Because i am sure that the whole idea behind the movie was to insult Islam hoping for this reaction, i do not put the blame on them100%, t
157 N766UA: Ever heard of Molly Norris?! She had to change her name and go into permanent witness protection because radical islamists THREATENED HER LIFE for dr
158 SOBHI51: Second time i am accused of that, now either prove it or shut your mouth, easy, no? Weird when somebody ask for an explanation he is accused of being
159 N766UA: Assume it was. Let's say his ONLY purpose was to insult Islam and provoke a reaction. Why would you then support giving him what he wants?! Wouldn't
160 lewis: Because he chose to. Him and the people funding it must have an issue with Islam if that is what you are asking, I think it is pretty clear. So, what
161 SOBHI51: I think i responded to that, if you read my posting till the end, but let me remind you
162 AirframeAS: Ah, an article from 2006, an op-ed piece. Nice try.
163 TheCommodore: It could also be facts, but why let them get in the way. Why dose it have to be something grossly negative otherwise nobody would have any problem sa
164 N766UA: Ah, I see that now. So, just so I understand you, you're saying that the filmmaker is stupid for putting it out (because he should know that these ki
165 N766UA: Hey, last I checked none of us even know who this filmmaker is, so how could any of us possibly speculate? We don't have any facts. Speaking of facts
166 SOBHI51: Maybe this time you will understand better, the stupid people were the radical Muslims. Clear now? Now how about proving that i am an anti-Semite? I
167 N766UA: I didn't say you were, guy, I asked. Note the question mark.
168 lewis: What kind of condemnation do you expect? Do you want videos of Mohhamed to become illegal in the US? Should that guy face penalties? According to whi
169 N766UA: There is nothing to condemn! LOL that's the point, dorkus. Nailed it. Bravo.[Edited 2012-09-12 16:56:46]
170 SOBHI51: So you have some doubts? Also why NOT in capital letters?
171 N766UA: Yes, I did, but if you insist then I believe you! Doubting a statement and accusing someone of something are different things.
172 TheCommodore: No try at all really, just a little look on the net, brings up endless pages and pages about US sentiment and how its viewed by the rest of the world
173 mham001: Looking at the CNN pictures and piecing together the timeline the State Dept is giving, the one thing glaringly missing is Libyan police. US personnel
174 SOBHI51: Not really, it is the way you phrased it and the NOT in capital letters. If a person says to another person (Are you stupid) that's more of an accusa
175 N766UA: No, of course you wouldn't, you just make blanket statements like "in America, don't give me that!" without knowing about something as obvious and im
176 N766UA: You're right, but I just said I believed you. You can choose not to believe me if you want, but that'd be ironic considering that's what you're mad a
177 lewis: You do have a point. I read somewhere that an announcement from the Cairo embassy had a condemnation of sorts, even though it did not come from the P
178 SOBHI51: No i am not mad at nobody, but hurt of being accused of something i am not. No irony there i can see.
179 N766UA: Fair enough, then I apologize! The way it was spoken about, it seemed to me, was deliberate in mentioning the "Jewish" element behind the film. That'
180 LTBEWR: I wonder if some politicians, or prosecutor looking for votes, would consider hate crime charges as to producers and the sick 'preacher' in Florida an
181 N766UA: I would have no problem with these guys being sued by, for example, the ambassador's family. You can't levy "penalties for hate, " though, not unless
182 SOBHI51: No problems, here. The truth of the matter that i knew about the film makers since yesterday via Facebook, did not want to post anything till it was
183 N766UA: Haha thanks, accepted, and likewise. Ultimately, I think we agree on the vast majority of this subject. Either way, dialogue and discussion is import
184 lewis: I doubt that would stick. Hate crime means that a crime is actually committed. Hate crime was what those rioters committed, by attacking. Fair enough
185 N766UA: Well, I guess that's where the civil trial would have to come in. Let me be clear, I do not advocate in any way criminal penalties for freedom of spe
186 BMI727: You want the US government to give a thumbs up or thumbs down to everything Americans say to keep foreigners happy? They don't have to like our freed
187 us330: Disagree with you. The Euros were the first actors--and Obama was actually in danger of being left behind. It was the French and the Germans that spe
188 SOBHI51: It bothers me also, same as the book of Suliman Rushdi, that book is the worst i have ever read, nothing to do with his insults but his way of writin
189 Ken777: It would be most fortunate if he was the same yo-yo. That guy is dangerous in terms of the violence he can generate. That was released BEFORE the vio
190 lewis: I would not understand it, not at all. Same way I would be baffled if 9/11 victims' families sued the US government because, through its presence and
191 SOBHI51: I just read on Facebook a great article. In short it says, if somebody in the West produced a movie dedicated to insult Islam and The Prophet Mohammed
192 Mir: Why would anyone hope for this sort of reaction? I'm not buying it. I could believe that the whole idea behind the movie was to insult Islam, but the
193 lewis: That is a good idea. How feasible would it be though, if the depiction of the Prophet is forbidden?
194 SOBHI51: Agree with you. Because this usually how fanatics react every time when they face similar situation. Depicting his face is forbidden, if you ever wat
195 lewis: I'm curious now... its on my list! Sorry to hear about your friend, irony indeed.[Edited 2012-09-12 18:06:02]
196 N766UA: I really wish that would be the reaction we saw most often. To be clear, I'm not saying I'd hope they'd win their lawsuit. Me too! These kind of reac
197 Mir: Those who made the film aren't necessarily fanatics. They could just be immature idiots. In fact, I find that scenario to be the most likely one. -Mi
198 N766UA: I bet they were... I've found the culprit!
199 MadameConcorde: The Islamic 'rebels' in Benghazi were backed and financed by the CIA and Mossad, Hillary Clinton, Soros, and the Neocons. They collectively wanted Kha
200 Rara: What a strange question. I don't go about actively provoking people. If I did, I would expect that same reaction as from any other population group w
201 flymia: You have a source for he was helping evacuate the building? All I have seen is that he went to a safe room and the safe room filled with smoke so he
202 EDKA: well of course it was... you only need to look at this reaction but again, i am not surprised.... What is now also confirmed is that the origins of t
203 TheCommodore: If you are out there on the world stage and everyone's looking.... you must behave. Hasn't stopped you form having an opinion all the way through thi
204 SOBHI51: Who is jumping? I just reported what CNN and WSJ wrote and according to the film producer, you should blame them not me if this was not true.
205 mham001: Yes they were first but all the time relying on the US (NATO) to back up their sudden new found bluster. They did not have the logistics, equipment o
206 us330: Sobhi was only the messenger for a fact that was being widely reported by the media (i saw it in several sources). He wasn't reporting it firsthand h
207 TheCommodore: Wouldn't be the first time Israel was "behind" some mysterious event now would it ?? This just out in the Oz papers. (SMH) Apparently, "a militant Ch
208 Rara: French and Brits rather. We stayed out of it pretty long and even abstained on the UN no-fly-zone vote, which drew a good bit of criticism from our a
209 Acheron: California man confirms role in anti-Islam film http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-...n-confirms-role-in-anti-islam-film Nutjobs provoking other nutj
210 starbuk7: Why is it the the film was posted 2 months ago and it is only NOW becoming an issue. As it was said above "intelligent" people could just ignore it an
211 slider: Just remember. We didn't start this. We didn't ask for it. We don't want it. They started it. Their bastardized ideology of hate and violence since i
212 casinterest: You are too rady to clasify the acts of a few as the actions of the many. If it is Libyan policy to attack the US consolate, then Libya will pay. How
213 DeltaMD90: And I'm sure you think our country is very violent? Look at how many deaths we've caused.
214 LMP737: Let me remind you that the British and French were the driving force to get Khadafi out of power. In fact the French flew the majority of CAS mission
215 pvjin: Again I would not blame religion for this but rather culture and lack of education. Do we see huge protests and violence in Turkey, Indonesia, United
216 cedars747: Well it was a short honeymoon between US and Islamist and it's simply over.Who's next !
217 mham001: For a guy so intent on calling others stupid, you really should check your facts before writing (specifically Libya), some might turn your own words
218 MadameConcorde: The movie that got a U.S. ambassador murdered - the clip has clearly been tampered with, by parties unknown, with defamatory lines poorly dubbed in to
219 Mir: No. The only people who should be locked up are the people who would find the movie justification for killing. The guy is an asshole - no doubt about
220 pvjin: Okay Libya seems to be doing ok, I don't know then. Also I didn't call anyone stupid, just lacking education. Still another thing is if there are man
221 starbuk7: So this guy was an asshole for making a film distasteful about Islam, but all the others were not assholes for making distasteful films about all of
222 BMI727: Nope. What Americans say or the movies they make are not the government's problem.
223 flanker: You guys should really forget about some damn movie, stop fighting like a bunch of school girls and focus on what happened. Sources out of Libya and t
224 stasisLAX: The producer of this film is a known fraud and someone that has held numerous false identities in the past, supporting his previous activities as a c
225 Dreadnought: So what? It was a movie. If you don't like it, don't watch it. Borat was hugely offensive to Kazakhs, but you didn't see them going apesh&t over
226 SOBHI51: Yes i do sit there and choose my words, i am not here to offend anybody, but you let your blind hatred to Islam lead your writing by offending others
227 casinterest: Libya has arrested some suspects in hopes of getting more information about what occurred and who was responsible. http://news.yahoo.com/libya-makes-a
228 starbuk7: Really!! It was a 14 minute clip that was posted on You Tube 2 months ago. Never indented for theaters. When i first watched it two days ago when thi
229 stasisLAX: Borat is not a convicted felon (bank fraud!!!) and a known identity thief like this clown Nakoula is..... I fail to see YOUR point
230 pvjin: Maybe they have better things to do than trying to get killed by defending United States embassy from terrorists. You know, in many countries out the
231 na: Why is it so easy to stir up a bunch of stupid violent muslims because of nothing? Why do they confuse America with one of their lesser intelligent ci
232 SOBHI51: Simple, ignorance, fustration, unemployement, radicalism and last for freedom of speech they don't know that word yet.
233 mham001: You have some strange perceptions of the United States. It is not even clear that this man is a US citizen. Indications point to him being a disaffec
234 Ken777: We don't need to lock up the people responsible for the rancid part of that film - just identify them in public and let the various reactions in the
235 Mir: Do you actually understand what freedom of speech actually means? So long as such reaction is non-violent and legal, sure. -Mir
236 777way: Even if you are an anti-semite, not that you can be since you are Arab who are also semities, but still so what, I dont give two hoots if some one ca
237 pvjin: At least US gun laws in most states are known to be very free, in here Finland after school shootings even legally getting a semi automatic pistol is
238 cmf: All you do is justifying what they do. Be the biggest bully and it is fine mentality. And you want to play their game. You need to study history. We
239 par13del: Freedom of speech is thrown a lot, how many countries actually have such protections ingrained in their constitution and or their laws? On the religi
240 stasisLAX: Yes, I have a graduate level education and I do understand the concept of "freedom of speech". Do you understand that freedom of speech does not allo
241 Asturias: Indeed, well I apologize then. I do not (fortunately) live by the side of my computer, otherwise I'd have answered sooner, but if you say you're not
242 EA CO AS: Apples and oranges. It's completely reasonable to assume that yelliing "FIRE!" in a crowded theater would result in panic and potential loss of life,
243 stasisLAX: And the movie producer was a damn meth head!!! In fact, he was a meth cook, according to the Associated Press. Source: http://www.theblaze.com/stories
244 TheCommodore: Whether is Apples or Oranges, they are from the same family, fruit. Lets not split hairs about this. Events don't always follow the same course each
245 DeltaMD90: I hope there are no knee-jerk reactions. I mean this pisses me off, but what are we to do? Hopefully we don't bomb the daylights out of them and spen
246 lewis: Americans have laws that are used to charge such felons. I haven't really looked into the laws in Lebanon or Egypt, but there should be laws prohibit
247 lewis: So you are against a person (Rushdie in this case) writing a book about whatever they want? Should we go back to book burnings or censorsip?
248 cmf: Is it relevant? The suggestion was to withdraw US troops and I questioned why they are all around the world. No I don't think your comments are relev
249 lewis: No I have not and hence I state it. So you focus on this and you completely miss my point which is: your comparison with Americans and gang violence
250 cmf: No I did not miss your point. You're trying to make the point that "they" should be held to higher standards, i.e. find all terrorists. Whereas we sh
251 LTBEWR: Drudge and others in the right wing media are saying that there were warnings to the Obama administration at least 48 hours before the attacks. Of cou
252 par13del: D you mean by US troops, or Iraqi's on Iraqis because of the restrictions lifted or the "foreign" insurgents also let loose by the lifting of Sadaam'
253 EA CO AS: You mean the same way the "Bush Administration was given warning prior to 9/11" crap has been coming out of the media for the last few days? How is i
254 Dreadnought: The source is The Independant out of the UK. Hardly a "right wing media" source. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-envoys-assassination-8135797
255 SR117: So what? Even if the Marines were armed, what would have happened once they shot a Libyan or two? There were still probably a few hundred or thousand
256 casinterest: Wow look at the man with the 20-20 crystal ball calling the shots. There was no warning and here you are blaming Obama, and a group of security perso
257 mham001: If they were really sending Marines out with no ammunition and did not respond to credible and generally specific threats on 9/11, I would have to ser
258 Mir: First of all, my post wasn't even responding you to. But second of all, your scenario is completely misguided and presents an utterly ridiculous comp
259 BN747: In order to put some perspective on the power of film, let's take a look at history.. Birth of a Nation - made in 1915 : "It's like writing History wi
261 SOBHI51: If my memory serves me right there was such a mob after the Simpson trial. Now why do you want to move to a neighborhood and start provoking the peop
262 MadameConcorde: No one murdered because of this image (warning: explicit cartoon) http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-...dered-because-of-this-image,29553/ I don't f
263 Conti764: Actually, those dictators, no matter how brutal against their own, were the biggest asset the West had in that region. They were loyal and pro-West.
264 TheCommodore: Where did I ever say that ? Looks like they tracked him down, the films maker, Mr Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-polic...sl
265 MadameConcorde: Libya-Egypt-Iraq they sure did but i saw it coming. Wish they would have left them alone. The consequences will be harsh. Karma is a b*tch. It never
266 Conti764: First of all, and most importantly, I feel very sorry for the lives lost in the attacks and my sympathy is with family and friends of the lost. Second
267 Conti764: You are right, but it ain't that simple, I'm afraid. We (US and Europe) are to keen on Arab oil and thus have to consider geopolitical issues. Don't
268 EDKA: No problem... it was a general comment on my part, not intended to single you out... however, this is different and yes, i agree with this
269 BN747: Nicely stated but not quite the picture.. The Libyan Gov't is actually in a more forgiving position than that of the Egyptian Gov't. although the Lib
270 MadameConcorde: Here is the Iranian version (by courtesy of CBN News) of why there is all this turmoil in the Middle-East New evidence has emerged that the Iranian go
271 Asturias: In my society at least, I don't share your concerns. It doesn't happen, no matter how some big-mouths on the internet 'talk'. In muslim countries, I'
272 thegreatRDU: No because their are idiots out their who keep undermining the mission....how the hell can we win when the whole Middle East hates you for allowing t
273 SOBHI51: And Christians killed hundred of thousands Muslims during the Crusade, so what? As usual you are trying to mix things up, you asked a question about
274 cmf: There were warnings about 9/11 too. And thousands of of warnings to events that didn't happened. It is so easy to afterwards say - you should have ta
275 Asturias: Well for one thing, that was 1000 years ago, while the KKK was lynching people in the 20th century and still exists. For another, the Crusades had no
276 cmf: You categorically state it doesn't? Spain hasn't been free from terrorists actions. Almost every single one of them carried out by people stating som
277 Asturias: Very true, Spain has not been free from terrorist actions. However the only terrorists who mindlessly murdered hundreds of people in Spain because of
278 SOBHI51: So they move thousands and thousands of worrier all across Europe just for the show, no intention on fighting a war? I am sorry but you must have mis
279 Dreadnought: A little sidetrack here, but the Crusades were a response to Islamic invasions of the Byzantine Empire and other parts of Europe, including Spain ove
280 Asturias: If your definition of a war is an all out fight against muslims, then no. The victim act is all on the side of the poor poor arabic countries who hav
281 MadameConcorde: U.S. Embassies In Egypt And Libya Attacked! Much more than that. US interests are being attacked all over the Middle East. The US embassy in Sudan is
282 ronglimeng: Never mind these usual cases of unhappy Muslims demonstrating on their lunch hours, think of the furor in the Christian world when the Python's came o
283 mham001: Early in this thread, you were the first and most visceral to jump on Jews and Israel, based on the ALWAYS incorrect first reports. When can we expec
284 Asturias: Exactly and it is worth noting that this stems from a fundamentally different culture and mindset of Christians and the west. Not because of muslims
285 mham001: It is clear that the second largest city in Libya is under control of Islamists. There is no doubt. Reports indicate most of the rest of the country i
286 SOBHI51: You have an open invitation to come and live amongst us, i will guarantee your safety, how about that?
287 us330: I would love to know what you would have done if you found yourself in an angry mob attacking an embassy. I have more sympathy for the average Libyan
288 mham001: Why would he want to go back to the 7th century? Where his wife is a second class citizen? Where foreign workers are treated like chattel? Where he c
289 cmf: ETA is Muslim? Poor reasoning. It isn't wondering what she did wrong. It is purposely doing something to create that reaction. Of course the reason i
290 MadameConcorde: The entire US Embassy complex in TUNIS is on fire Shootings all around War zone Complete chaos Lots of machine gun fire.. watching live.. http://mubas
292 MadameConcorde: This is getting serious now. It is spreading like wildfire. Now in India too. The Pope is in Lebanon. I hope Pope will not be murdered. This is not ab
293 MD11Engineer: I´m more and more of the opinion that the whole thing is a planned and organised act by Islamic fanatics. The video was published about 2 months ago
294 lapa_saab340: Never heard of March 11th, have you? Look it up. ETA in general does not aim for massive civilian casualties when they strike. Quite different from t
295 PC12Fan: Hoax - Al Queda would never give warnings. I just don't understand this violence. I thought this kind of thing belonged in the medieval age? It doesn
296 comorin: Here's what happened: Vague video gets buzz on the Internet. Evil Mullahs get wind of it and go blasphemy, blasphemy. Said Video is from The West and
297 thomil13FRA: At the risk of sounding like a member of the tin-foil-hat brigade, this is going beyond "spontaneous protests." It looks to me like a coordinated acti
298 n229nw: If I may, there is a massive amount of hysteria going on this thread. There is rioting in many different countries. The "West" has seen rioting go out
299 lewis: No, "they" should not be held to a higher standard. Where did I say that exactly? The task of stopping gang violence is always underway, from the pol
300 Emirates773ER: Right here.... http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches...nce-host-obama-dinner-40000-ticket[Edited 2012-09-14 10:06:15]
301 par13del: We would all like to hope that seeing armed Marines would give pause and calm the situation, at least leave it at shouting, throwing rocks, bottles a
302 lewis: Your whole point in this thread revolves around people in the west should not be provoking by writing offensive books, drawing offensive cartoons or
303 QFA380: That would be true if this were an isolated incident, it isn't. Can we extrapolate once there's a hundred similar attacks? What about a thousand? A m
304 Acheron: The Wahabists. They hijacked the Arab Spring long ago and now try to push to gain more influence on the region.
305 MD11Engineer: I´m quite sure that the attacks were coordinated and planned, but carried out by the great unwashed (and uneducated) masses ak useful idiots. IMO the
306 SOBHI51: One reason i am not anti-Semitic i find that all the Jewish people i deal with are wiser and more honest than others, even when dealing with Arabs or
307 Acheron: I remember reading a different version of an Alfa unit being dispatched to Lebanon and kidnapping the family of the kidnappers, and sending bits of t
308 flanker: 7th century? Don't insult early middle age Europe by comparing them to these savages.
309 comorin: Because the highways are nicer and the subway stations are air-conditioned. We have our religious nuts and they have theirs.
310 thomil13FRA: I don't know. I've got a bad feeling there's more to it than that. These attacks, I dunno, they sound too "organized," for lack of a better word, to
311 comorin: Is there the slightest possibility that this is the beginning of WW3? I mean, it didn't take much to get WW1 started...
312 SOBHI51: No it was just to make him feel at ease, i am happy to say KSA has on of the least crime rate in the world. How many rape cases were the rapist was c
313 BN747: The event is Sep. 18th.. today is Sep. 14th... ..this kind of silliness contributes to nothing useful. He could be in the toilet downloading..should
314 MadameConcorde: Breaking on Al Jazeera. Protesters angered by anti-Islam video storm UN peacekeepers' camp in Egypt's Sinai. More soon. AFP reports that it was a grou
315 Acheron: Notice that what most places have in common is that they have a majority of sunny muslims and their governments were secular at some point and are on
316 SOBHI51: Has any of you visited the middle-east before passing dumb comments like this? Or you believe whatever Fox shows you?
317 MD11Engineer: Some years ago I worked with an older British colleague. He used to be an aircraft mechanic on a British aircraft carrier during the late 1950s-early
318 BN747: Nice neat little story about how guns prevailed..but THIS... is NOT 'that'. This is local police whose kids may be best friends with the kids of the
319 PSA53: With all this violence by these idiots we should respond in kind, not with guns,fire bombs and clubs.But with banners,singing and chanting,"Give Peace
320 MD11Engineer: No, but this would be how the Marines or the embassy protection detail could have handled the situation. Jan
321 thomil13FRA: What I do find amazing is that the violent protests are concentrated in certain areas. I haven't heard of any violent protests in Morocco, Jordan, the
322 SOBHI51: I know this is not the proper time for jokes, but as the Egyptian are fun loving people they do not miss a chance for a joke. In the middle of the rio
323 moo: Your story would have had a different outcome if the protesters had firearms of their own. The people currently protesting invariably do.
324 MadameConcorde: You are obviously wrong there. Just see down below. A Map of Muslim Protests Around the World http://www.theatlanticwire.com/globa...uslim-protests-a
325 cmf: I have. I hope you are aware it isn't the only event in Spanish history. Also remember it doesn't make any difference to the victims if the hundreds
326 MadameConcorde: RT has a live feed from Cairo. Things are really heating up again around the U.S. embassy. http:// rt.com/ on-air/cairo-clashes-us-embassy/ -- I have
327 MD11Engineer: Acc. to Al Jazeera among the hundreds of unarmed demonstrators there was a group of about 20-50 heavily armed men, with machine guns and RPGs, who ou
328 pvjin: Well at least most of those do not seem to be so violent, burning US flag and that stuff is completely OK to me.
329 thomil13FRA: @Madame Concorde: Read my post again. I said violent. Nowhere in the examples you provided was there any mention of violence or large scale protests.
330 PSA53: What if they we're burning the Finnish flag? Is that ok?
331 MadameConcorde: 21 pictures This is a slide show with burning embassies worldwide from Morocco to Indonesia http://www.n-tv.de/mediathek/bilders...sche-Botschaft-arti
332 flymia: I wish flag burning was all that was happening. I sure do hope things calm down. Ok they are upset over some stupid ignorant movie but man IMO this i
333 MadameConcorde: Not sure if this is related to the US embassies attacks... maybe it is just coincidental... however... this is on US soil. WATCH LIVE: Explosives dete
334 BN747: 1) Depending on the embassy (none of these are in that category..infact none may be) 2) Today's diplomacy is not the same as the 1950s (more imperial
335 MD11Engineer: Well, if they would burn the German flag, I would answer "Was kümmert es die Deutsche Eiche, wenn sich eine Sau dran schabbert." (What does the prou
336 thomil13FRA: And yet more selective quoting. Did you even read the image captions before you posted it? Half of it shows pictures from the attacks in Sudan, Egypt
337 PSA53: Yeah,we do.We do wave our flag at slightest thing and so....next entry.... [quote=flymia,reply=332]I wish flag burning was all that was happening[/qu
338 mham001: Aug 5, 2012 BERLIN – Saudi Arabia deported 35 Ethiopian Christians last week after incarcerating them for over seven months for praying in advance o
339 pvjin: Yes, that would be just as OK as burning any other flag.
340 flanker: Yes, Egypt being one of them. It is quite clear that certain places on this earth are not ready to join the 21st century.
341 Mir: He's got a gun. What are you going to do? It was made to offend, that much is clear. Saying it was made to provoke violence cannot be substantiated.
342 Conti764: It's not even complete... According to a local newspaper, in Brussels, with a large muslim community, persistent rumours about possible protests have
343 Aaron747: This is not going to happen. The small part of the Muslim world (that is not so small btw, with unemployment over 20-30% in many places) is not about
344 Aaron747: Pretty heart-warming amid all this mess...the stepfather of Ambassador Stevens was just on CNN Int'l saying many Libyans have got in touch with their
345 DeltaMD90: See everyone, there ARE peaceful Muslim protests, even in that part of the world. That takes a lot of balls that many on here don't have IMO, I am su
346 Ken777: And yet there are gun shows almost every weekend around the country with thousands of guns for sale. And lower standards for "qualifying" buyers. We
347 victrola: I find it interesting to see that the controversial video was produced by an Egyptian Coptic Christian. While I deplore attacking people for their rel
348 thegreatRDU: Ghaddafi was no saint...but trust me under him the average Libyan enjoyed rule of law and their was equal rights for everybody i.e. women were not fo
349 QFA380: The lunatics can't even keep to their own countries. 'Behead those who insult the prophet'... it honestly defies belief. The US consulate is unfortuna
350 columba: Also a German embassy was under attack in Sudan: http://www.spiegel.de/international/...rman-embassy-in-suda-a-855890.html Also I am not a big fan of
351 MadameConcorde: The protest was set up by Muslims of Australia. A demonstration between a large crowd of Muslim protesters has turned violent this afternoon, with po
352 scbriml: It's just a piece of cloth. Have you ever visited Libya and spoken to Libyans? Ghaddafi ruled through fear and retribution. ANY dissent was ruthlessl
353 MadameConcorde: The Muslim crowd probably had ultra-left wing Marxist/Communist protesters among them. I would not be surprised. the picture: http://images.smh.com.a
354 directorguy: The people who are protesting/rioting outside, and in the vicinity of, the US Embassy, in no way represent the majority of the Egyptian population. In
355 melpax: While that's normally the case with a lot of protests here, it dosen't look that way this time. More video & pictures; http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/
356 Rara: So.... Chinese protestors rallied at the Japanese embassy in Beijing, threw stones and bottles and breached the police barrier. http://www.reuters.com
357 stealthz: What does it look like? To me it looks like some violent and ignorant people bringing violence to my home town. If they are so intolerant of others p
358 stealthz: Hardly, from what I read they are protesting over territorial claims concerning some disputed islands, not sure how it fits in this thread at all.
359 Rara: It fits insofar as in this thread, a number of people have claimed that the violent protests in Cairo and Benghazi are in some way due to the violent
360 MD11Engineer: The problem is that there are about a billion Muslims (of various sects and undergroups, some of which hate each other enough to kill each other) in t
361 LTBEWR: Apparently the alleged producer of the film has been brought in by police for questioning as to possible violations of his parole as part of his sente
362 Mir: I'd really doubt it. We've been doing drone attacks for all of Obama's presidency, and we haven't seen this sort of reaction. -Mir
363 melpax: From reading about the anti-terror raids in Melbourne during the week, most of the people targeted fall into this catagory, basically sucked in by a
364 imiakhtar: Wow. Potentially 100 million violent fundamentalist muslims! Please can you give us a geographical breakdown of where they are? Many thanks.
365 mham001: This is the one thing being ignored by everybody. I respect the right of Coptics to feel bitter, and why not. Many have have been killed, many others
366 SOBHI51: Xmas 2010 there was a huge explosion outside a church in Cairo, i was there, you should have seen Muslims giving blood by the hundreds to there brothe
367 Mir: US drones are now flying over Libya. If I were an Islamist militant, I wouldn't be getting too comfortable. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...a-a
368 DeltaMD90: They have been for a very long time...
369 pvjin: Maybe these peace loving Muslims fear getting killed by these violent ones and thus don't publicly protest against them?
370 MadameConcorde: Is the U.S. looking to fuel even more anger and hate from these radical Muslims all around the world? Why don't they just pack up their drones, their
371 par13del: Lost on this one, does that mean they are not muslim? The problem with this philosophy is that the masses will not distinguish between "us" and "them
372 Revelation: We didn't. All that happened here was a handful of idiots made a film and posted it to YouTube.
373 TheCommodore: Not the first, but never mind about the point. I was responding to the first reports coming from well regarded US media sources. But as I said earlie
374 Mir: Entirely possible. But if that is really the case, then the peace-loving Muslims should have no problem with the West going in and getting rid of the
375 par13del: Occupying forces, is this a loose term to describes foreign forces in Europe, Middle and Far East or countries that were recently occupied, even Iraq
376 DeltaMD90: I usually agree with you in regards to non-intervention, but in this case it seems to be fueled not by intervention (like many other protests) but of
377 TheCommodore: No, its a term used to describe what happened to Iraq and Afghanistan etc (the coalition of the willing) Im sure some of the problems would stop, but
378 DeltaMD90: I don't like the idea of Islamists telling us what we can and can't say, do you?
379 BMI727: The US is looking to defend its citizens and interests around the globe. Because people are attacking American embassies? There are American interest
380 TheCommodore: Of course not, but we should have thought about how our actions are going to go down. Is ok for the west to prescribe a good dose of medicine to thos
381 MD11Engineer: If it was the AQ leader I wouldn´t call it a murder but a justified and successful military operation, provided no innocents got killed or injured.
382 par13del: The people in these countries now have more freedom than they had before, is it more violent, in some areas yes, but what exactly is the "gennie" tha
383 pvjin: What about Gulf War? That was in 90's and US even managed to shoot down a civilian airliner during that war, although of course average American has
384 par13del: Well that's not true is it, you don't see massive demonstrations against the UK for example, they were more actively involved in shaping the nations
385 stealthz: Well one could write volumes on this but short answer is, No they won't! Does this "Leave them alone" concept also mean we stop providing aid and fee
386 DeltaMD90: "Our actions" would imply the actions of our governments... our governments did not make this video. You, me, 99% of westerners, and our governments
387 TheCommodore: Did they want us to give them "more freedom" I wonder, or do/did we use that as a means to justify going in there ? This is for these particular nati
388 DeltaMD90: Well what do you suggest be done, without going against our freedom of speech? (the American version, not familiar with Australia's "freedom of speec
389 TheCommodore: Well that's the $64,000 question isn't it. Am not sure, it a delicate thing this freedom, whichever country your from. I think Australia's "freedom o
390 par13del: How do we then explain the atrocities effected before 9/11 and the invention of drones, on the Russians who were there before? Think we have to agree
391 stealthz: Australian's enjoy a similar degree of freedom of speech as our American friends, largely by convention or just a result of being free and democratic
392 DeltaMD90: I actually was gonna put that it was the "$1 million question" but I forgot Really the optimal solution (IMO and probably yours) is for them not to s
393 Mir: We didn't go into Egypt. And Libya begged the UN to get involved. The UN agreed, and we went. You'll note that the reaction in Libya has been very pr
394 BMI727: Yeah, we left them alone and the Iraqis invaded Kuwait too. It's a globalized world and there is no way America can take their ball and go home and e
395 Maverick623: According to CNN, Yemen has furiously denounced the pending arrival of a small contingent of Marines to secure our embassy there.... so the US has del
396 bestwestern: If Yemen wanted to put 100 heavily armed soldiers into the middle of Washington DC, what would you think?
397 Mir: If their embassy were under threat, I'd understand it. I'd want specific rules for them in place so that they were only involved in defending the emb
398 BMI727: At that point you say the Marines are on their way to defend the embassy and they will leave when Yemen gets control of their country. Put the ball i
399 DeltaMD90: You know that wouldn't fly... I hate to sound double standard-ish, but it doesn't seem like some of these countries have the means (or willingness) t
400 Mir: The problem is that you really can't compare the security situation between the US and Yemen. In the US, there have never been attacks against foreig
401 pvjin: Oh yeah of course that is true, my English failed. Meant to say decade. Feeding population of these failed states and taking refugees isn't really go
402 pvjin: I would say that increased security and better data from people known to be extremists within USA has done that, not US military actions.
403 scbriml: The US has been lucky on a number of occasions. The terrorists only have to get lucky once every few years.
404 stealthz: If this "religion of peace" is promoting this activity in my city and my country it is time action was taken... Image from the Sydney Sunday Telegraph
405 par13del: As long as they are on their embassy compound all the US government and the police services in Washington DC can do is be embarrassed and pound sand,
406 melpax: Unfortantly this has been an ongoing problem here for a while with a few people wanting to keep old hatreds alive. Serbs/Croats & Greeks/Macedoni
407 stealthz: Certainly was, had a Police officer freind in the '70 and the tales he coulad tell about some of the Serb/Croat conflicts!! Had kind of hoped we had
408 Asturias: Read, comprehend, post. cmf was just googling it, realizing that he not only managed to misread a simple statement in order to support his agenda, bu
409 DeltaMD90: I get what you two are saying and agree with the reasoning. I'm saying is I know that politicians from both sides and citizens all across America wou
410 mham001: Who coincidentally had the price on his head raised by more peace-loving muslims. TEHRAN, Iran – Iranian newspapers are reporting that a religious
411 BMI727: It is my right. I'll fill up kiddie pools with the stuff and ignite it if I like. If you don't like to use oil, go buy a Volt, get off the grid, do w
412 mham001: And this ladies and gentlemen, is why we are hated around the world. Introducing...The Ugly American.
413 pu: No. Countries can and do limit the headcount of those attached to foreign embassies on their soil as well as their job function. Countries aren't req
414 BMI727: Not my problem. See the point of America is to allow Americans, as much as possible without encroaching on the rights of others, to do whatever the h
415 mham001: An excellent argument for reinstating the draft. You wouldn't by any chance be willing to put your life on the line for that belief?
416 Aesma: Here the law mostly deals with hate speech. In practice there aren't a lot of cases, there are very few in fact, but somehow we don't get crazies lik
417 mham001: So in other words, an opinion. The man is expressing an opinion about people who are persecuting his relatives.
418 pvjin: Is also racism against people with certain color of skin allowed in United States? For example if black guy said that all whites are child raping sav
419 SOBHI51: Prophet Mohammed died 1500 years ago. He has a problem with the Egyptian government not the religion.
420 mham001: No. But taking your argument at face value and expanding on it, some might say we should be banning the practice of Islam because it encourages discr
421 windy95: No...Freedom of speech... Sure looks like it is Muslims that are persecuting the Christians there. How peaceful of them...How about feeding some poor
422 Aesma: I have not seen the film but I don't think it would get its author in trouble here. An Al Qaeda style film calling for the death of infidels or black
423 PHX787: This picture is the most pathetic thing I've seen ever. This correlates to my growing hatred for religion altogether.
424 pvjin: Ok then, in this country that kind of speaking has already gotten some people fined. Not entirely sure if limiting freedom of speech in this area is
425 SOBHI51: The Christian Copts claim that they were discriminated against by Nasser, Sadat, Mubarak and now by the MB, knowing from reality that there was no lo
426 something: Maybe I'll buy a property next to yours and put a tire fire on. It's just my business what I do with those damn tires. That is actually not the point
427 zhiao: Nobody did anything about Ruwanda; why do you single out the USA?
428 Aesma: It's on par with kids holding "God hates fags" signs at funerals. Because you're the world police that doesn't need the UN to intervene ?
429 mham001: What is the one thing all 4 of those rulers have in common? I'll let you figure that one out.
430 BMI727: I'd never see combat. I'd probably fall under classification 2-B anyway. Of course I'm sure the taxpayers would love to pick up the tab for my educat
431 Dreadnought: Look at the statements from the leaders of the New Black Panthers: "Our lessons talk about the bloodsuckers of the poor… . It's that old no-good Je
432 DeltaMD90: As distasteful as their speech was, I support it up to: THAT is inciting violence IMO and should not be tolerated.
433 par13del: I believe for the law to get involved there would have to be extenuating circumstances, like walking in to an all white bar and making that statement
434 casinterest: Yeah sure, details like the following one don't matter apparently From your article none the less. "He had been ordered not to own or use devices wit
435 Aesma: Well, isn't that freedom of expression too ? You quoted some (hateful) people and put their names too, didn't you ? You can't put a video on the inte
436 Dreadnought: You think he was not picked up on orders from DC? The DOJ published his name and address last week. They are gunning for him, and not just for an old
437 BMI727: They would also have to change the Constitution. It takes a lot more than a Muslim president to do that. That day has not come and will not come in t
438 Dreadnought: Not necessarily. Thanks to Judicial Activism, it is entirely possible that our court system could uphold restrictions to free speech in cases of "hat
439 pvjin: Because United States then on the other hand immediately went to defend Kuwait when Saddam attacked it, and then of course now later went to Libya, a
440 melpax: The NSW premier has asked child protection authorities to look into the child's welfare.... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...ourne/story-e6frf7
441 BMI727: You have to be very, very deep within the tin foil hat brigade to believe that a court would trash the First Amendment. The chances of Sharia law bec
442 SOBHI51: Who was there stronger enemy inside the country? Who tried on several occasions to assassinate Nasser? Who killed Sadat? Who killed few ministers dur
443 PanHAM: [ If you mean the holocaust denial, then , yes. As the nation that comitted that crime it is perfectly alright to forbid that, as well to forbid the s
444 us330: You contradict yourself here--filling up kiddie pools with oil and igniting them would indeed encroach on the rights of others. When oil burns, it gi
445 SOBHI51: I I am saying not only the Copt suffered from the MB but also Egyptian Muslim leaders. If the Copts have a problem it is not with the Prophet Mohamme
447 MD11Engineer: This way you could call me a Christian because when I was a baby I was babtized in a Lutheran church and underwent confirmation as a teenager. That I
448 SOBHI51: Just to prove that not all Muslims are bad. http://news.yahoo.com/video-shows-li...escue-us-ambassador-194148880.html
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