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BBC: IPhone Launches; Nobody Cares  
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6657 times:

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19557497

[fair use excerpt:]

Apple seems less interested in blowing people away than it is in milking profit out of the existing lineup. At this Cook is doing marvellously well.

Apple has more than $100bn in cash. Its market value of $632bn makes it the biggest company in the world, bigger than any company in US history.

That's great for Apple's shareholders. But for customers, who cares? In terms of products, Apple has become the one thing it should never be. Apple has become boring.

----------------------------

That pretty much sums up Apple today; fat, bloated, rich and lazy. And boring.

I have never been as underwhelmed at any Apple related launch as I was for the iPhone 5 today and after the presentation, my general reaction was: meh.

This never happened before, but it seems to be true; Apple is.. boring. The new and exciting stuff comes from the Android platform and Windows 8.


Tonight we fly
212 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

Quoting Asturias (Thread starter):
This never happened before, but it seems to be true; Apple is.. boring. The new and exciting stuff comes from the Android platform and Windows 8.

Klaus' head just exploded.




Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6588 times:

I am not an Apple fan boy, I have never owned their products but I will give them credit where credit is due and on the same token I will be critical when they deserve it.

For anyone to expect to be "blown away" by a line of product that is in its 5th generation is unrealistic. What they have done is improve a product.

Revolutionary leaps do occur maybe 2-3 times a decade but to expect it from the same product line every single year is a tad crazy.


I think people will enjoy the LTE connectivity very much. Even though I will not own one, that alone makes the new model worth it in my opinion.



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6588 times:

This isn't exclusive to the iPhone or the tablets Apple makes, the innovations have been 'thinner' laptops, high density pixels on laptops, same old iMacs (also thinner for some odd reason) and no real progress on Mac Pros.

The designs are old (defenders say they're perfect, but I don't buy it) and there is no real interest in innovation.

There is a great interest in marketing and retail - Apple would have you use their products, Mac and iOS as devices for their media distribution (be it music or apps) and little else.

There was a time, not half a decade ago, when Apple was running on 12 cylinders, churning out new and exciting iPods, Macs, iPhones ... and they were all best in class. They were not as restricted to their failing 'cloud' strategy and one didn't need to enter passwords every other second and have the credit card at the ready.

The iLife apps are dying a slow lingering death, where every update focuses mostly on new Apple designed templates, instead of new features enabling Adobe to take over where Apple was making great strides before.

iTunes 'updates' (like the one today) is just to add support for the new iOS devices they have announced. Granted there is a redesigned iTunes on the way, but it isn't so much the design of the thing that is the problem - rather the lack of focus and the bloaty feeling of the entire program.

Apple's meteoric rise was the product of great work and innovation, not by standing still and cashing in. Though I can see why that's tempting not, it is really uninspiring and dare I say: boring.



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21525 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Quoting Asturias (Thread starter):
That's great for Apple's shareholders. But for customers, who cares? In terms of products, Apple has become the one thing it should never be. Apple has become boring.

So what's supposed to be new about an article like that?

Even when the iMac, the iPod, the iPhone and the iPad were presented you could read articles like that, often accompanied by a dip of the stock price.

The only news would be if actually nobody posted an article just like that – then there might really be cause for actual concern...!

In this context a look at the two Apple-related threads pretty clearly proves otherwise already (including, notably, intense participation of yourself).

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Klaus' head just exploded.

Why should it?

Although it might if I was actually caught in a shirt like that...   


User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 5):
I am not an Apple fan boy, I have never owned their products but I will give them credit where credit is due and on the same token I will be critical when they deserve it.

Same here, though I tend to be more of an Apple fan than not.

Quoting flanker (Reply 5):
For anyone to expect to be "blown away" by a line of product that is in its 5th generation is unrealistic. What they have done is improve a product.

Indeed, and in fact in the case of the iPhone, it isn't that bad as such - but if the hardware couldn't be pushed forward, then the OS definitely could.

The other mobile OSs have progressed leaps and strides and by comparison make the iOS look and feel dated. That's something Apple's designers and engineers definitely could have worked on if the phone itself is mature.

Therein lies my criticism.



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21525 posts, RR: 53
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6548 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 9):
The other mobile OSs have progressed leaps and strides and by comparison make the iOS look and feel dated. That's something Apple's designers and engineers definitely could have worked on if the phone itself is mature.

Therein lies my criticism.

If you prefer superficial modifications over consistent progression and long-term upgrades, you will likely be better served with something other than iOS.

I don't have a problem with preferring consistency and usability over superficial changes, particularly when those distract from usability more than actually serving it. But that is certainly a matter of personal preferences.


User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6530 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
Even when the iMac, the iPod, the iPhone and the iPad were presented you could read articles like that, often accompanied by a dip of the stock price.

Anecdotally there seems far less interest. Even the release thread at Macrumors barely dipped above 1000 posts (vis a vis the 5000+ post when the the Verizon iPhone 4 was launched)

The newspapers carry the story, but with little fanfare and the replies are scarce and muted.

Anticlimactic.

There have of course always been some writers banking on writing something negative about Apple, but this isn't one of them.



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineMrChips From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6529 times:

I just upgraded to a Galaxy S3 three weeks ago; I'll admit, at the time, I felt like I should have waited to see how the iPhone 5 turned out. All of a sudden, I'm glad I didn't; the specs between the 5 and the S3 are nearly a dead match, except the S3 has a larger screen and better battery life (supposedly).


Time...to un-pimp...ze auto!
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6521 times:

Quoting MrChips (Reply 12):
I just upgraded to a Galaxy S3 three weeks ago; I'll admit, at the time, I felt like I should have waited to see how the iPhone 5 turned out. All of a sudden, I'm glad I didn't; the specs between the 5 and the S3 are nearly a dead match, except the S3 has a larger screen and better battery life (supposedly).

Indeed, last time around when the iPhone 4 was introduced it was basically 6 months ahead of any competitor - but oddly the Samsung Galaxy SIII is taking that spot now.

The iPhone 5 is actually outdated before it is released. I may be expecting too much of Apple, but seeing as they're losing marketshare to the competition very fast, I'd expect them to want to stay ahead of the game.

So far the Galaxy SIII has outsold the iPhone 4S in the USA, and by leaps and bounds in Europe, perhaps this will change with the iPhone 5... but I'm not so sure. Time will tell, but the iPhone is both more limited and older tech than the SIII and more expensive.



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6516 times:

Quoting MrChips (Reply 12):
I just upgraded to a Galaxy S3 three weeks ago; I'll admit, at the time, I felt like I should have waited to see how the iPhone 5 turned out. All of a sudden, I'm glad I didn't; the specs between the 5 and the S3 are nearly a dead match, except the S3 has a larger screen and better battery life (supposedly).

I am perfectly happy with my S3 



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21525 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6489 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 11):
Anecdotally there seems far less interest.
Anecdotally the same was said about the iPhone 4S (the "disappointing" iPhone!) – and yet its sales have eclipsed all its predecessors with pretty much the same geometrical growth as the ones before.

There is no doubt that the audience tends to get more jaded with old age as I can attest to from my own perspective.

But on the other hand one may also become more relaxed about "end of the world" claims in general.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 13):
So far the Galaxy SIII has outsold the iPhone 4S in the USA

The S3 being in its first, the 4S in its fourth quarter. Not a big surprise.

[Edited 2012-09-12 14:57:18]

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6476 times:

I believe that Apple put more into the new iPhone than most people realize. The video on the Apple site shows a few bits of design & engineering efforts.

Apple has been shifting product focus for some time now. A hard focus on notebooks and the result is the best selling notebook like in the US.

The iOS market is ver profitable for Apple, with more due next month in a smaller iPad.

Where we need some attention now is in the desktop lines. That is the only area of frustration for me.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 13):
So far the Galaxy SIII has outsold the iPhone 4S in the USA

It's no surprise that a new product will outsell last year's product. The 4S is now going to be $99 IIRC.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4796 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6468 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
I believe that Apple put more into the new iPhone than most people realize. The video on the Apple site shows a few bits of design & engineering efforts.
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/appl...-5-specs-features/?olo=editorspick

I agree,
The change in HW is pretty impressive. Also IOS 6 offers some distinct advantages. I think the OP and others are happy about their Samsung, and that is nice. But to quote an article written by a known apple attacker is really not a good source for the mood of the consumers. However for ease of use and supported software Apple gets kudos. IOS6 is going to run on the 3GS which is now over 3 years old.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6469 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
Anecdotally the same was said about the iPhone 4S (the "disappointing" iPhone!) – and yet its sales have eclipsed all its predecessors with pretty much the same geometrical growth as the ones before.

The problem is that the competition's models are now eclipsing the iPhone. That's new, at least in the USA.

However, I have a well placed finger on the pulse of Apple, and it's no 'business as usual' this time. I wouldn't bet the farm that the iPhone 5 outsells the Galaxy SIII the next quarter.

Though it will outsell it's older siblings, such as the iPhone 4S, but that's neither here nor there.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
The S3 being in its first, the 4S in its fourth quarter. Not a big surprise.

Yeah, I mentioned that, but the SIII is probably going to outsell the 5 this quarter. It's a better phone and cheaper to boot.



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21525 posts, RR: 53
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6459 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 18):
The problem is that the competition's models are now eclipsing the iPhone. That's new, at least in the USA.

As far as I'm aware it has in fact happened before in trailing quarters. And Apple has never had a majority of the market anyway, numbers-wise, nor have they even gone for it.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 18):
However, I have a well placed finger on the pulse of Apple, and it's no 'business as usual' this time. I wouldn't bet the farm that the iPhone 5 outsells the Galaxy SIII the next quarter.

You can bet whatever you want – we'll see how things will turn out.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 18):
Yeah, I mentioned that, but the SIII is probably going to outsell the 5 this quarter. It's a better phone and cheaper to boot.

Samsung will be happy to have you as their customer if that is your personal opinion.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6371 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 18):
The problem is that the competition's models are now eclipsing the iPhone. That's new, at least in the USA.

The iPhone 5 is going to be like previous versions - people will look at it at an Apple Store (or carrier store) and make a decision. Carriers will also be pushing their sales staff to push non-Apple brands (because they are cheaper for the carrier) and a lot of customers will flip a coin on what to buy.

People with an iPhone or an Android phone will probable stick with their brand because of the software investments they have made.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 18):
I wouldn't bet the farm that the iPhone 5 outsells the Galaxy SIII the next quarter.

Android will probably outsell the iPhones (all models) for the year and Apple will continue to be satisfied with their sales and overall performance.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 18):
It's a better phone and cheaper to boot.

Delighted you are enjoying yours. But surprised at your ability to make an evaluation of the differences of the two when the iPhone has yet to hit the market.

BTW, did you see the video on apple.com that shows some of the production bits?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
And Apple has never had a majority of the market anyway, numbers-wise, nor have they even gone for it.

Having the majority of the market isn't the most important factor. Profitability, customer satisfaction, developers participation and satisfaction with their compensation, and loyalty levels are all more important than which company sells the most product.


User currently offlineHOMsAR From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6356 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
Where we need some attention now is in the desktop lines. That is the only area of frustration for me

Honest question here:

Other than, perhaps, really high-powered computer applications (and you may very well need them, I don't know), is there really a reason to have a desktop computer anymore?

I bought a new laptop in June (Dell), bought a USB docking station, hooked up my regular keyboard and monitor, and use it as a desktop. Back when I had a separate desktop and older laptop, I almost never used the desktop.

What applications are out there today that truly need capability that laptops can't provide? What percentage of the total computer users out there actually would need to own a desktop instead of a laptop because they use those applications?



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20375 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6327 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Klaus' head just exploded.

Oooh. Messy!

Quoting flanker (Reply 5):
For anyone to expect to be "blown away" by a line of product that is in its 5th generation is unrealistic. What they have done is improve a product.

Revolutionary leaps do occur maybe 2-3 times a decade but to expect it from the same product line every single year is a tad crazy.

Bingo. As has been pointed out? What other "revolution" is there?

We haven't figured out how to make actual tactile buttons rise up out of the flat screen yet. I'm sure Apple is trying to figure out how. We haven't figured out how to project 3D holograms into the thin air just yet. I'm sure Apple is trying to figure out how. Honestly, I thought Siri was pretty neat.

But until someone figures something really Sci-Fi out, how to execute it well without frequent crashes and failures, and how to make it mass-producible, there won't be any earth-shattering upgrades.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13767 posts, RR: 61
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6347 times:
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Well, as an iPhone 4 owner, I'm giddy at the thought of getting iOS6 on my existing device, and will check out the iPhone 5 in the stores to determine if the size difference is a make-or-break for me. Odds are I'll take the plunge, since the LTE speed is my major "want" on it, but if it's physically bigger than I want I may pass.


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinemajestic477 From Ghana, joined Sep 2012, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6220 times:

when you start suing people because the shape of things, you will think twice when changing the way yours look lest.....
Bye the way i think apple is great the only downside is restrictions. Heck you cant even transfer pics via bluetooth between two apple products.E


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8978 posts, RR: 39
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6213 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 6):
There was a time, not half a decade ago, when Apple was running on 12 cylinders, churning out new and exciting iPods, Macs, iPhones ... and they were all best in class.

Maybe this is a technology problem, rather than an Apple problem? I don't see Android OEMs churning out anything really mindblowing, either.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlinewingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2346 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6211 times:

So much hatred for Apple, the phone provider with the lowest OS market share. It reminds me of Visa and MasterCard issuers always attacking AmEx, another provider with the lowest market share, but never each other. I guess it's because they know their products are all really just the same under the covers.

Companies like AmEx and Apple are just different. They do their own thing and come up with some truly amazing stuff: changing the music business, revolutionizing the phone set industry, creating loyalty programs that are still the gold standard to this day. But come on people, you can only come up with so much genius in any given decade.

I have a droid myself. It's the one Apple product I don't have in my arsenal and the thing is truly a piece of garbage. This is a 2.5 yeard old Droid X with some of the worst UI you can imagine. I take it the SIII is a quantum leap, and I'll give that one a go vs. the i5, but credit where it's due. Apple did change this business and both Apple lovers and Google lovers should be thankful. Having Apple and Samsung and Google etc. duke it out will mean good things for everyone.

PS: Klaus! Personal question...if you have all this cloud stuff with Apple do you still need 64GB or can you just save everything up there and take the 16?


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4903 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6201 times:

It's like the 777X - nobody cares...

User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6678 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6167 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 27):
Maybe this is a technology problem, rather than an Apple problem?

Software, apps. iOS ,and the ecosystem is the key - the physical containers of it (ie iphone, and eventually ipad) will become less and less relevant. - and that is where Apple's growth will come from.. the fact that i can control stream my itunes collection on my main stereo system, controlling it thru my iphone while laying in bed reading..

Not to mention the halo effect from iphone to the rest of the offering..

How many versions of Android are they? My boss keeps rebooting his Galaxy phone at least 2 a day - he is quite vocal about it.

Quoting MrChips (Reply 12):
S3 are nearly a dead match, except the S3 has a larger screen and better battery life

Sure, but the S3 feel a bit on the cheap side when you handle it.. the plastic back?



Step into my office, baby
25 BlueElephant : It may look cheap but the fact of the matter is - you drop an iPhone and you end up paying 200 dollars to have it repaired. You drop an S3 - and noth
26 mt99 : That's fine - Marketing 101: "You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle" - As long as you accept that the iphone is at least on the same ballpark
27 D L X : This is not true. I've dropped my iPhone 4 on a brick fireplace multiple times without problems. Last week, I (embarrassingly) dropped it in the sink
28 garnetpalmetto : Lowest OS market share would be WebOS or Symbian, not iOS. And how much of that might be user-related? Or related to bloatware put on by the carrier
29 mt99 : Well he was comparing it to S3's - specifically. And there are more iphones that S3s.. If you need to "fix" it yourself after purchase, what the poin
30 zckls04 : $550 of my dollars says it is true. Although 150 of that was to replace bent pins on two successive dock connectors. So let's just say it's sometimes
31 Ken777 : Some airlines are caring. There is a lot that is new with the iPhone 5 - it's just not always in your face like some customers want. The bit of techn
32 TLG : Exactly, but yet fans are "blown away" every time the Apple CEO takes the stage. Apple has the marketing & hype down pat for sure. How else can s
33 okie : Just think of a radio or music device, started with a tube/valve type radio the size of small refrigerator then shrunk to device with the advent of t
34 Post contains links and images Klaus : I personally don't use iTunes Match, so my circa 40GB of music files reside entirely on my 64GB iPhone and on my 64GB iPad locally, not least because
35 PPVRA : It's not Apple who has one model that is tall, one short, one wide, one cheap, one expensive, one for gaming, one for facebook, etc. . .
36 zckls04 : The bit that breaks most easily though is the screen, and that's the one thing I really don't want covered up, because it never gives as much tactile
37 DocLightning : Really? I apply an anti-glare coating to mine. It does decrease the resolution very slightly, but not enough that I really notice or care. At any rat
38 Post contains links Klaus : The bumpers are kind of neat in that respect as they wrap around the edge, protruding slightly beyond the front and back surfaces so that the glass w
39 D L X : ::cough:: And suddenly, this thread is rated R.
40 Post contains images Asturias : I don't have a Galaxy SIII, wouldn't mind one, but don't have one. The tech specs are already out and I've tried the SIII hands on, it is smoother th
41 Post contains images D L X : Well, if you're only looking at specs, you know what else has all the specs of an SIII? Clearly, it matters how the specs are put together. It matter
42 Post contains links BlueElephant : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdIWKytq_q4 Jimmy Kimmel proves that I'm right.
43 Post contains images Asturias : Of course, it is crucial. Fortunately the SIII is an amazing piece of engineering, so there's no need to worry there. I'm sure one can fault Samsung
44 EA CO AS : Klaus, do you know if iOS6 is going to bring Siri to the iPhone 4 and/or iPad 2? I can't seem to find that info.
45 TLG : Are you talking about the "very few people" that will be camping in front of Apple stores next Thursday night?
46 Post contains links Klaus : Unfortunately not: http://www.apple.com/ios/siri/siri-faq/ Compared to the 400 million iOS devices already in use and the over 430 million active iTu
47 Post contains links TheRedBaron : I find it amusing that everyone that hates apple or says the Iphone 4 or 5 for that Matter will never be on par or sell as much as Android/Samsung pho
48 Asturias : This isn't about hating Apple. Who really hates Apple anyway? Some are unimpressed, some are mildly annoyed by their image - and some certainly despi
49 wingman : So what you're saying is you want or need Apple to revolutionize entire 80 year old industries every two years? That's a tall order chief. They do thi
50 Asturias : Why does every argument need to be turned into it's absurd extreme? To answer your question: no.
51 Post contains links casinterest : In response to OP. Apparently nobody cares. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57...st-initial-supply-trip-up-servers/ the first batch of IPHONE 5's so
52 Asturias : How many units were in the first batch? But seriously, I didn't claim the iPhone wouldn't sell, I'm sure it will - there's a large market for smartph
53 Post contains images Klaus : Don't hold back with your opinion there by any means..! It's just a very different question how many people actually share that sentiment. In the end
54 Post contains images mt99 : Is that why the Samsung, HTC and Nokia's website crash when they release new phones? BTW, I hope you are right - my speculative Nokia stock would be
55 D L X : See this is what I don't get. I've never knocked other smart phone makers, but what I see in them is trying to be like the iPhone. Help me out, Astur
56 casinterest : What is boring about a product that works, and works well? What apple does, they do well. What new feature would have wowed you?
57 Post contains links Ken777 : Smoother than the previous generation iPhone, but looks like you'll need to physically evaluate the iPhone 5 before making a final decision. From a g
58 Asturias : Maybe Apple's website technology is worse than the competition? It does seem to go down a lot and at very predictable times, so one can't really blam
59 Klaus : I don't use individual paper features, I use a complete device. And there is a world of difference between a spec sheet with its bullet points and th
60 Asturias : That's an irrelevant argument, since all the major Android device makers make a complete and extremely capable device, so the specs actually matter.
61 D L X : ??? Asturias, can you name an exciting and innovative feature found on a 2012 Android device? I'm sorry but, "making their own way and doing an amazi
62 PPVRA : That's the thing I don't get. Who uses all that crap? It's like a swiss army knife, it's all in there, but you'll probably never need 99% of it. So w
63 Post contains images francoflier : lulz
64 Post contains images zckls04 : Not a great comparison....Rolexes are mass produced and incredibly overpriced products, mostly bought by nouveau riche idiots wanting to impress thei
65 Post contains images PHX787 : I'd like to chime in here from personal experience: The iPhone 5 release has appeared to be revolutionary in Japan...... .....probably because Softba
66 Rara : Absolutely.... laptops are dead as far as I'm concerned. Desktops and tablets FTW! Well it's the little things that matter. They're finally going ahe
67 gingersnap : As I currently own both an iPhone & iPad at this time, I was looking forward to what the 5 was going to bring to the table. Needless to say I was
68 TheRedBaron : Well apparently 2 million PRE orders for the iPhone, and on friday we will see another 2 million sold...I guess NOBODY CARES is pretty good for Apple.
69 Revelation : Yes, well, the fact that it's called iPhone 5 means this is the fifth iteration, not to mention the 'S' half iterations, so yeah, it's not about raw
70 RussianJet : Is it still not possible to expand memory or change battery in the iphone 5? I could never understand how on earth those things were deemed sensible.
71 Acheron : How many of them are just previous iPhone users just upgrading and how many of them are new users?. You probably have no idea. The price you pay for
72 RussianJet : How do you figure? Other phones manage it perfectly well. A micro sd slot is hardly bulky or heavy.
73 PPVRA : If it's unnecessary it's too bulky. Space is at a premium.
74 TheRedBaron : LOL Who cares? if you are selling 4 million units or maybe more on a 10 day window, you are going to have at least 4 million walking customers sellin
75 RussianJet : That's just it - how is it unnecessary? It's an option I'm sure many would like to take advantage of, particularly with the larger capacity micro sd
76 Post contains links syncmaster : Meanwhile, AT&T is reporting that it has already sold more iPhone 5's since it went on sale than any previous model in the same time period: http:
77 DocLightning : I'm sorry but Mandy Patinkin (played Inigo Montoya) is my hubby's uncle and I cannot possibly look at that picture without busting out laughing. No t
78 RussianJet : Varies significantly from phone to phone. And you have to be more discerning with apps than with the apple appstore.
79 DocLightning : Both of which are absolutely unacceptable to me. I want to know before I plop down the commitment and money that I am getting a phone that will work
80 Post contains links and images Klaus : Android is a standalone operating system plus a few Google apps. Hardware manufacturers now assemble a bunch of components and upload Android to the
81 Post contains links PPVRA : Nokia Lumia 920: http://www.phonearena.com/news/Here-...0-has-no-microSD-card-slot_id34178 Galaxy Nexus / Nexus 7: http://www.androidcentral.com/why-
82 Revelation : Pretty damning statement with regard to the Andriod eco-system. The game is playing out as PC vs Mac all over again, with Android in the role of Micr
83 garnetpalmetto : I've yet to see that be the case. My HTC Evo 4G shipped with Android 2.1 Eclair. It's currently running Android 2.3 Gingerbread, getting an intermedi
84 TLG : Klaus, you are the only person I know of who can fault any truly "brilliant" features in an Android device!
85 garnetpalmetto : The minute they come to an Apple device, however...
86 D L X : I don't disagree, but if you notice, this thread and the other two threads about Apple have been all about doing the exact same belittling of apple i
87 DocLightning : My experience was with a Samsung CHARGE. On the very first day I owned it, the battery died in about six hours of standby. I figured it was a fluke.
88 Revelation : I imagine some vendors are different, but I've been on Gingerbread for 1.5 years now, no Ice Cream Sandwich for me (rumors say maybe) and no hint of
89 garnetpalmetto : Because the carrier's trying to sell a product. When you have bright shiny new Galaxy SIIIs and HTC Evo 4G LTEs that come with ICS out of the box and
90 mt99 : This mess that you describe is the why i have an iphone. Open box, charge it,.it works..
91 Post contains images Klaus : Every feature comes with advantages and downsides. Engineering is about weighing them against each other. That applies to Apple just the same as to e
92 garnetpalmetto : So you think software upgrades are a mess? I suppose they don't have those on an iPhone?
93 casinterest : ? Software upgrades are a cakewalk on an iphone. Especially since IOS 5. I click upgrade walk away for 15 minutes and everything is done.
94 mt99 : No, you do.. it takes about 30 minutes.. It takes about 5 mouse clicks. and done! - works again I have never ever, nor do i want to "root" any phone
95 garnetpalmetto : And that's precisely how software updates work on an Android too. Actually it takes 0 mouse clicks as all of the updates were OTA. My wife's rooting
96 Klaus : The mess is that many Android devices already come out with an obsolete OS version and either get no updates at all, only one or two and still stay f
97 garnetpalmetto : Generally speaking that's something most end users aren't going to do and the ones who do have the savvy to tell a "shady source" from a legitimate s
98 Klaus : How does that "savvy" materialize, exactly? I am pretty competent in computing matters, but I would not be able to validate a Cyanogen release (unles
99 Revelation : Simple: customer satisfaction. Clearly your answer is in line with the carrier's interest of getting customers hooked into a new device and a new con
100 Klaus : In the process eliminating critical security mechanisms, by the way, which is simultaneously the main reason why I vehemently warn against "jailbreak
101 Revelation : Indeed, the "chain of trust" on most systems starts with the presumption that the firmware is not tampered with, so by installing a rootkit you exten
102 garnetpalmetto : Balderdash. I've never once seen you give Android or an Android device any credit for any feature. You very well may have, I freely admit that, but n
103 Revelation : Right, but all of this descended from: And while this statement isn't 100% true (you've named one vendor who didn't strand some subset of their custo
104 Klaus : That is one element of it, but the security impairment extends even further. Official OS releases are cryptographically signed by the manufacturer (o
105 zckls04 : The "in real life" argument is a peculiar one though. One person's "real life" is very different from another's. Some people like some features, othe
106 TLG : That's not entirely accurate. I once RMA'd an Android device that was rooted with a custom ROM installed. And no, I did not lie to or deceive Custome
107 Post contains images Rara : Correct. I got the Motorola Milestone (European Droid), which was the first major mainstream Android phone, and the manufacturer's support has been a
108 Revelation : I agree with this and the rest of your post as well. I hope we something in the future where there will be a software vendor or two that crops up and
109 Klaus : Intermediate topical update: The general indifference to the iPhone 5 has by now pushed delivery dates back to "3-4 weeks".
110 Post contains images TheRedBaron : Seems the benchmarks for the new iphone will make it a home run in sales. The devil is in the details !!! not he bells and whistles!
111 D L X : I did say that, but your implication is wrong. I was getting at another poster's dogged belittling of iPhone features as not being innovative, so I a
112 Post contains images DocLightning : Yup. Not selling well at all. Nobody cares. -OR- Buncha Apple Fanboy Sheep who would buy a pile of rubber dog doo if it had an Apple symbol on it. Ta
113 TheRedBaron : Agree 100% the game of benchmarks is a never-ending pissing contest, we have to take in to account reports of how long the batteries last on normal u
114 Post contains images gingersnap : I will concede that the hate and disdain for Apple products does baffle me at times. I do suffer quite a bit of "ribbing" when I'm using my iPhone...b
115 Klaus : Not necessarily. Smartphones are much more limited by their graphics processor than by their actual CPU in almost all cases (with the GPU by now taki
116 Post contains images DocLightning : Well, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Efficiency is also a never-ending pissing contest between Airbus and Boeing (or GE/RR/PW). As a result, we
117 zckls04 : ARM core is just that; it's the core of your arm, i.e how much muscle power it takes to hold it up. He's basically saying the iPhone is light. Instru
118 Post contains images cmf : Or a sign of production problems
119 Post contains images DocLightning : Seems legit. I see your glass is half-empty, huh?
120 Post contains images Asturias : Oh that's deep duuuude... Apple products are like jazz ... it's the notes that they don't play that really matter! No, you couldn't be more wrong. Th
121 Post contains images D L X : What Asturias thinks is innovative on an new Nokia, HTC, and Samsung phones is not going to be on Google. You made the bold claim, now back it up. To
122 Asturias : Evidently what 'Asturias' thinks is innovative is highly subjective, just as what 'D L X' thinks is innovative. Thus irrelevant; but if you are actua
123 D L X : Sure it is! That's why I asked your opinion. I want to see if you are going to give the same treatment to Android phones as you did to the iPhone. It
124 Post contains images Asturias : OK, just to humor you: I think it is exciting to be able to install apps from any source I like, from Google Play or just from a source of my choice.
125 gingersnap : What's wrong with that exactly? The sheer number of people who have pre-ordered the new iPhone 5 can't be wrong can they? Or are they just unenlighte
126 Post contains images Asturias : Nothing 'wrong' with that. Someone is leading innovation, it just isn't Apple. I suppose it has more to do with expectations than anything else. Even
127 DocLightning : So my Android phone didn't suck? It didn't crash? I'm making it up? All I can say is they didn't produce that phone for very long. Right now, Apple's
128 cmf : I'm sure you had problems. But it is dangerous to apply the experience from just one unit as indicative how all units work. Even though manufactured
129 Post contains links TLG : I am not trying to take sides here, but most of the pro-Apple contributors on this forum are doing this very thing, in reverse of course. I still hav
130 zckls04 : No public transit directions is the killer for me on Apple maps. Fortunately I found that out just before I was going to update to iOS6. I'm very surp
131 RussianJet : I just can't understand such a trend. I mean, unless phones are going to ship with 100-200Gb memory inbuilt then let the user decide how much more th
132 lewis : From the top of my head, I would assume they just do it for the money. Difference between iPhone 16GB and iphone 32GB: ~$100 - a ridiculous price for
133 Post contains links and images Klaus : Well, being a certified physician pretty much excludes a lack of smarts being in play there. Even many if not most people in the IT field don't reall
134 TheRedBaron : Agree 400% if only the auto industry would follow this.... refinement is not enemy of innovation, in fact it keeps innovation fresh...
135 Post contains images TLG : I did, and I believe it's the first time I've seen you admit that an Apple product is less than perfect. That was a beautiful word salad you served!
136 lewis : But we still have alternative portable storage that we can hook up to our computers. When the floppy disappeared, it disappeared for a reason, becaus
137 D L X : I know the thread is long, but you have to read the whole thread to see why I made the accusation I did. I am in fact not doing "this very thing," bu
138 TheRedBaron : DING DING... we have a winner here! Exactly why I dont get this very long threads about how Apple has become the evil empire, in my case there are a
139 Post contains links Revelation : I don't know if anyone else finds this stuff interesting , but I do... Back in the 90's DEC teamed up with ARM to produce the StrongARM Chip: http://
140 gingersnap : I think the expectation is misguided somewhat. I find most of that "expectation" comes from Android users who will poo-poo anything that comes out of
141 Post contains links TheRedBaron : ok here are the first tests.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6M5q5TRuAsY#! Compared to a Galaxy IIIS.... Guess Tim Cook
142 Revelation : IMHO the sheer number of Android devices and the plethora of changes made to it by both handset vendors and carriers makes for stale and buggy softwa
143 Braniff747SP : Based on the fact that Apple sold 2 million iPhones in the first 24 hours of pre-orders and likely sold millions more yesterday, no, I don't think 'n
144 wingman : Apple fans are like Honey Badgers or 911 drivers..they just don't give a shit about the background noise. They just focus on their own kit and what's
145 TLG : That is indeed impressive, but how does that compare to Apple's biggest competitor?
146 Braniff747SP : I don't know. Do they sell two million phones overnight without anyone seeing one in person, much less using it?g
147 TLG : No, but according to my research, they do sell 1.3 million every single day, not just after a release. This means that in the last 10 days of Septemb
148 Asturias : I can't speak on the behalf of others, but I've been an Apple Macintosh user for 20 years and an iOS user since day one, until a few months ago. Appl
149 comorin : OT, i) I am totally envious and ii) wasn't DEC's post-VAX/VMS OS the basis for PCDOS (or Windows)? Vaguely remember that from somewhere...
150 Post contains links Ken777 : Or the competition simply doesn't have the number of people hitting their sites after an announcement. Even after Apple drop a Billion dollars on a n
151 RussianJet : Actually, many are. And, as I am sure you know, Apple has also lost in some patent cases. It's a mess in all directions, from jurisdiction to jurisdi
152 Post contains images DocLightning : I just got shipment notification from Verizon! Yes, yes, iKnow. I'm an iFanboy. *hangs head*[Edited 2012-09-23 14:09:23]
153 RussianJet : Enjoy it, Doc.
154 TheRedBaron : Will we have a DocLightning review? Yesterday I got Mexico biggest carrier catalog for my change of equipment (yep its been 2 years), and after 14 pag
155 Rara : Well since you addressed me directly... First of all, in what way is this an Apple thread? The threadstarter opined in his very first post that he pe
156 wingman : Uuuhh, dude...you might want to re-read the OP's first two opening paragraphs. In summary, he states that Apple is stupid, fat, rich, and lazy. Or in
157 D L X : Me! Admittedly, I don't know a lot about particular Android phones. To me, it hasn't been important for me to do so. I like Apple mobile products, an
158 DocLightning : Well, it says it will be at my office no later than 1500 on the 25th. It's in Memphis right now with FX.
159 Post contains images Klaus : "BBC: IPhone Launches; Nobody Cares" Just guess! Have you ever looked at your own posts in Apple-related threads? Or at the relative numbers of parti
160 Post contains images Rara : From the first post: If you like it or not, the threadstarter intended for this thread to be, among other things, a platform comparison. It developed
161 Post contains images Klaus : You just can't let it go. I had simply been talking to people who presented their preferences and priorities, which just happened to match Android mo
162 Rara : Your usual debate strategy again. You make a personal argument, and when that argument is returned, you withdraw with your strawman “why get person
163 Braniff747SP : I thought you were referring to one phone. Android has a bigger marketshare than iOS; that's to be expected, considering one can get an Android phone
164 TheRedBaron : Analists are saying that Apple sold around 6 million phones this weekend.... so I think they must have done something right on the marketing side to m
165 Post contains images TLG : I was referring to all Android phones, but, at least until last Friday, the Samsung Galaxy S3 was selling faster than the iPhone. However, for a fair
166 Post contains images zckls04 : Rolexes from 50 years ago were different beasts. After about 1970 they started going downhill, and now they're just a label, like any other. On a QPR
167 Ken777 : Carriers will try to sell what ever costs them the least - and that is not iPhone. Odds are some stores will have spiffs to move customers away from
168 Post contains links Klaus : Nothing inherently wrong abour preferring sheer quantity of bullet points on the spec sheet. But just as well nothing wrong about looking for quality
169 TLG : Klaus, you win; iPhone is the best, hands down!
170 Klaus : No, it isn't – it's just designed to meet different goals than other devices are. There is not a linear scale with all devices by necessity above o
171 Post contains links planewasted : Where do you get this data from? All tests I find says its worse. For example http://www.macworld.com/article/2010...es-the-iphone-5s-battery-last.ht
172 Klaus : It's gone down a bit from the 4S, but it still runs substantially longer than the S3 when the display is actually in full use when browsing the web (
173 Post contains images planewasted : But why would you use full brightness? According to your standards the S3 then has substantially longer talk time, standby time and access point time
174 Post contains images Klaus : Because it's sorely needed in bright daylight. I can read on the iPhone without a problem even in direct, unshaded sunlight. It's also an ample buffe
175 planewasted : Now you are just being ridiculous. Read my arguments and compare the real numbers and get back with fact based arguments. I have used my phone a with
176 Post contains links Klaus : http://www.displaymate.com/Smartphone_ShootOut_2.htm
177 planewasted : I don't know what you try to say about the battery life discussion here. Still, the battery life is worse than on old iphones, which were worse than
178 D L X : Not necessarily. Comparing a chip running one OS to the same chip running a different OS may get you dramatically different results. Hell, because An
179 Klaus : When actually being used as a smartphone (thus using the screen a lot), the battery life has always been very good, usually ahead of most of the othe
180 Post contains images planewasted : That is true. But in this case both manufacturers seems to have done their homework. I have actually tried both phones. I love how the iphone 4 gave
181 Ken777 : That reminds me of the wide range of PCs using Windows. MS had to bloat Windows up to accommodate the wide range of options that ere possible. Every
182 D L X : That is my understanding of why Apple quickly undid their move to allow third party built MacOS boxes. (For what it's worth, that is also the princip
183 Klaus : Because it has next to no significance in total when reading text. A.net is the only site I use with any regularity that doesn't use a white backgrou
184 TLG : The iPhone 5 does have advantages over a previous iPhone version, but not much meaningful over the latest Windows or Android phones. The "bullet poin
185 Braniff747SP : It's certainly true that Android phones came with several features before iPhone did; however, many times these phones had flaws in the new technolog
186 Post contains images Klaus : Except for the best display on the market, the fastest CPU+GPU on the market, the most compact form of all high-end smartphones, LTE with still a goo
187 Post contains images DocLightning : Well, I got mine! I'm happy with it. The big difference I've noticed (other than screen size) is the speed. This phone does exactly what I want when I
188 TLG : And then... So, which is it?
189 Klaus : Do you believe that having the best display (when applying a given set of criteria) and the fastest CPU+GPU automatically make a device "the" best of
190 cmf : WOW Clearly everyone is playing second fiddle after Apple...
191 Klaus : In the metrics prioritized by certain customers (including myself), yes. In other metrics prioritized by other customers, possibly not so much. That'
192 Post contains images Asturias : Apple is selling a good deal of phones, but they're riding on a wave for past innovation, not current one; the other platforms such as Android and Wi
193 Rara : No, right now I wouldn't recommend the iPhone either. But I'm certain that a Google Maps app for iOS will be published very soon, and then I will go b
194 Klaus : Or, quite a bit less satisfying for a fully engaged hater, Apple just wouldn't assent to changing their app to pay for added features by breaching th
195 cmf : Then you should state it as your opinion and not as fact.
196 D L X : Have you actually used this app or this phone?
197 Asturias : Yeah, have you actually used the Android Google maps app or every leading Android phone? I second that.
198 Klaus : The display quality and the total processor performance of the iPhone 5 are objective facts according to the respective metrics. Those objective fact
199 D L X : Then can you point to any specific instance where the app didn't do what you wanted it to do? No, but I'm not criticizing Android, either. This ain't
200 Asturias : I've never said iPhones are crap.
201 TLG : Makes perfect sense; that must be the reason there are 4 Android phones for every iPhone.
202 Post contains links and images TheRedBaron : Actually you are 300% right, that is the main reason People buy the Iphone and not the cheap Android ones even if the sell 10 to 1 or 50 to one, the
203 cmf : If that was what you stated and what made me coment I would agree, but it wasn't. Let me remind you: and It is clear fact that what you said and made
204 Post contains links D L X : Well, are there any specific instances where you used the Apple Maps program and it didn't do what you wanted it to do? Did you perhaps search for 315
205 Post contains links Asturias : Yeah I tried to find Gothenburg, Sweden. It failed, there was no Gothenburg in Sweden. Nope. But in reality there are a lot of errors and inconsisten
206 cmf : Interesting. As it happens I did try Gothenburg without Sweden yesterday and it worked fine.
207 sovietjet : Blind loyalty from Apple sheep doesn't equal innovation I don't doubt the maps will get better with time, but you have always repeatedly stated that
208 Klaus : I had been responding to Asturias's incorrect claim that the app was faulty, which was a specific claim which was specifically wrong about what it cl
209 Post contains links Acheron : It is amusing, really. http://theamazingios6maps.tumblr.com/ But hey, It Just Works(tm) so who cares?.
210 DocLightning : So I have a complaint about the new phone. You're going to think it's odd. It's too light. No, really. It doesn't weigh enough. Oh, sure, it's all imp
211 Post contains links Stabilator : I had a big chuckle reading this article. Turns out Apple even thinks their maps suck, and are advising users to use 3rd party maps. There's even a se
212 cmf : You're not alone. I'v heard it from a few different places. Give it a bit of time and I'm sure you get used to it.
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