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Neo-cons Gone Wild  
User currently offlineCometII From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 302 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Anyone notice how this massively unified front from neo-cons is stating, in very clear terms, that the "United States is showing weakness". That's fine, eveyone is entitled to their opinion. But when it comes to outlining the course to follow, they are oh so purposefully vague. All you hear is "America is in retreat" in the Middle East.

What do they mean by that??

The only conclusion one can draw, is they want the USA to remain in Iraq, double down in Afghanistan, and that is just for starters. They want to bomb Iran, engage in Syria, put boots in Libya, become involved in Sudan, take action in Yemen, and in Pakistan, and in Egypt, and, and, and...

Look, I want a strong US response whenever events like the latest happen, but these neo-cons are out of their minds. They seem to exist in an alternate universe. Don't they realize we don't have the power, the treasure, or quite frankly, the lives to spare for their outrageous sketches? It is also very dangerous for them to create the narrative that the US leaving Iraq or Afghanistan is a sign of weakness. It is not a sign of weakness, it is what must happen. We don't BELONG there.

If these are the minds in line for a Romney administration (plus Romney himself, who has the ability to even piss of Britain, not even Dubya managed that), this Arab world policy, plus the "self-deportation" policy, plus Russia being America's #1 opponent, plus his apparent eagerness to just piss off China due to trade (not a bad idea, but the way he seems to want to do so is troubling)... boy, I fear for the future.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3642 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

You've put a whole lot of words into the mouths of others.

There is unfortunately some truth, particularly in Egypt. Obama supported their "street" even at the expense of pissing off good allies. He strongly encouraged the military to hand over more power quickly, he plans/planned on getting Congress to forgive $1 Billion in debt while handing them $2 billion a year in aid, he threw Mubarak under the bus early on, he has done everything they wanted, yet Egypt is looking everywhere else for friends, Presidential trips to China, getting cozy with Iran, etc.

This is the fourth attack on embassies in Cairo with little to no police interaction and the Egypt president cannot even make a decisive condemnation for 24 hours?

Obama is an amateur.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2713 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 1):
Obama is an amateur.

To be fair, our boots on the ground in Egypt only lasted, um, 0 days. Maybe he handled it poorly or not, I'm just glad we didn't invade Egypt (or Libya) (or Syria) (or Iran)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4618 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 1):
This is the fourth attack on embassies in Cairo with little to no police interaction and the Egypt president cannot even make a decisive condemnation for 24 hours?

Obama is an amateur.

And so what would your response be? Especially to a country that does billions of dollars in trade with the US, and one in which we actually have a surplus. There are a lot of interest of the US in Egypt, not the least being the Suez Canal, and a trading partner.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 1):
threw Mubarak under the bus

So you support dictatorships? Gotta love that spirit of freedom and democracy.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21625 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
To be fair, our boots on the ground in Egypt only lasted, um, 0 days.

Exactly. There was no way that Mubarak was going to hold onto power short of military intervention (bad idea), and supporting him would have made the US look even worse (both in terms of being seen propping up a dictator and in terms of eventually being unable to do it), which would have had future repercussions. Trying to support those who would come next and hoping for a friendly government was the right thing to do - it didn't work out, but that's not Obama's fault.

Now if you want to talk about an amateur, look at Romney's idiotic comments about Russia a few days ago.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12542 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
Anyone notice how this massively unified front from neo-cons is stating, in very clear terms, that the "United States is showing weakness". That's fine, eveyone is entitled to their opinion.

I don't think it's so fine, when that opinion is so dangerous.

A lot of us said some saber ratting was fine back in the early 2000s because we presumed everyone of adult age had learned the lesson of Vietnam and no one would ever be stupid enough to get us back into such a quagmire.

Sadly, we were very, very wrong.

None of us have any way of knowing if a McCain/Palin administration would have gotten us engaged in Iraq, although we do hear various right wingers agitating for it, and we know that on such issues the position of the GOP is very vague.

Not having a McCain/Palin administration is one reason we're better off than we were four years ago.

Not having a Romney/Ryan administration is one reason we'll be better off four years from now.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5519 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

"Neo-cons"?

Would you contend that any person who takes issue with the way a piece of policy is handled by the administration, is, ipso facto, a "neo-con"?

What about a person who has genuine disgreement with doctrine in this instance, but not all? Are they "neo-cons" only when they differ from your chosen position, or are they "neo-con" without hope of reprieve upon first disagreement with you?

---

The point is, by applying the broad brush to every person challenging policy, one quickly does away with any possibility of balance or credibility, and (in the process) brands him- or her-self with the badge of intolerance.

This works without regard to which side of the political spectrum you may find yourself on.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3642 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 3):
So you support dictatorships? Gotta love that spirit of freedom and democracy.

No, I don't really have any interest in spreading "democracy" to Egypt. You sound like what is being described as a neocon.

And our trade is dependent on that $2 biilion/year, remember?


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4618 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 7):
No, I don't really have any interest in spreading "democracy" to Egypt. You sound like what is being described as a neocon.

Wasn't my point.
I misread your post.

However we can't go interfereing, and the neocons want us too.
All over the world.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8269 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2604 times:

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
The only conclusion one can draw, is they want the USA to remain in Iraq, double down in Afghanistan, and that is just for starters. They want to bomb Iran, engage in Syria, put boots in Libya, become involved in Sudan, take action in Yemen, and in Pakistan, and in Egypt, and, and, and...

Odd bit of behavior from Netanyahu with his "Red Line" comment - basically at the wrong time for those os us who support both Israel and Obama. Interesting story on that at:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0912/81150.html

Quote:

President Barack Obama’s national security team had every reason to believe they’d be spared a Bibi eruption before Election Day.

Earlier this year, U.S. and Israeli officials had informally agreed to stop airing their well-documented disagreements over how to halt Iran’s nuclear program, according to two people familiar with the situation.

But on Tuesday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu broke the tacit détente. He accused the Obama administration, albeit not by name, of going squishy on Tehran by not creating concrete benchmarks — “red lines,” he called them — for a military strike on Iranian nuclear facilities.

The latest flare-up in the tempestuous Obama-Netanyahu relationship was overshadowed Wednesday by the carnage at the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya. But U.S. officials believe the intense debate over the allied response to Iran’s nuclear program — and the sharp personal, policy and political differences between the two leaders — rivals the perils posed by the excesses of the Arab Spring.

And there was an interesting comment on the reality of the more responsible politicians in Israel on Page 3 of the article:

Quote:

The paradox, senior American officials told POLITICO, is that bilateral military and intelligence contacts between the two countries have seldom been more productive, for all the public squawking.

Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton — whose weekend comments pushing back against the notion of an Iran deadline sparked Netanyahu’s “red lines” remark — enjoy close relationships with other top Israeli officials, especially former Labor prime ministers Ehud Barak, currently Netanyahu’s defense minister, and Shimon Peres.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 1):
Obama is an amateur.

As opposed to Bush & Cheney who went after those WMDs in Iraq, boosting Halliburton's profitability.?

Quoting sccutler (Reply 6):
Would you contend that any person who takes issue with the way a piece of policy is handled by the administration, is, ipso facto, a "neo-con"?

Not at all.

I see the neo-cons as today's hard line conservative. It's a bit different than the Conservative GOP of my Father's day (and the one I was a part of). It is, to me, a far right political element with little tolerance for those who are moderate or (God Forbid) to the left of moderate. Basically the political type who believes a coin can only have one side.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3642 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
As opposed to Bush & Cheney who went after those WMDs in Iraq, boosting Halliburton's profitability.?

I'm not sure what relevance Bush/Cheney have on this conversation. Can you point out to us what affect Bush/Cheney have had on the current state of affairs in Egypt? Or is that some kind of a deflection?

As I recall, Bush was pushing the democracy thing long before Obama, fwiw.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4618 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
. Basically the political type who believes a coin can only have one side.

It goes further than that. That side has to be shiny and polished to within 80% perfection .



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
I see the neo-cons as today's hard line conservative. It's a bit different than the Conservative GOP of my Father's day (and the one I was a part of). It is, to me, a far right political element with little tolerance for those who are moderate or (God Forbid) to the left of moderate. Basically the political type who believes a coin can only have one side.

Very well put. To expand, neo-con standard economic theory is to reward the rich for being rich, and punish the poor for being poor. Basically supporting the 1%. At lest, that's what it seems like to me.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
I'm not sure what relevance Bush/Cheney have on this conversation.

Well, they actually were neocons. People don't seem to understand much of what neocons are. Simply wanting to intervene in the Middle East does not make one a neocon.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 3):
So you support dictatorships? Gotta love that spirit of freedom and democracy.

That's not something a neocon would do. No neocon would support a dictator if they thought democracy was a legitimate option.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
I see the neo-cons as today's hard line conservative.

Neocons are, by definition, not hard line conservatives.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 14):
To expand, neo-con standard economic theory is to reward the rich for being rich, and punish the poor for being poor. Basically supporting the 1%. At lest, that's what it seems like to me.

No, not at all. Neo-conservatism really has little to do with domestic policy and is concentrated on international relations.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):

Anyone notice how this massively unified front from neo-cons is stating, in very clear terms, that the "United States is showing weakness". That's fine, eveyone is entitled to their opinion. But when it comes to outlining the course to follow, they are oh so purposefully vague. All you hear is "America is in retreat" in the Middle East.

What do they mean by that??

The only conclusion one can draw, is they want the USA to remain in Iraq, double down in Afghanistan, and that is just for starters. They want to bomb Iran, engage in Syria, put boots in Libya, become involved in Sudan, take action in Yemen, and in Pakistan, and in Egypt, and, and, and...

Your first para is generally true, and I do think they are overstating it a bit.

But your last para is completely invented by you. Nobody WANTS to do those things, although we should be willing to do them if necessary. I don't think anyone left or right wants to see boots on the ground in any of those places. Air strikes, maybe.

It comes back to the Bush Doctrine. If you attack us, we will hunt you down. If you hide in places where you are protected by the government, we will go after that government, and maybe the local population if they seem to be backing you up.

Safety will come if people know that if they attack the US, or harbor those who attack us, they are in for a world of hurt. The more we hold back, don't want to overreact as we have for generations now, the less people feel such fear. If, in Afghanistan, we had flattened every town from which we were fired on, using bombs, gunships and artillery, it is quite likely that we would not have had so many problems in Iraq and this week might never have happened.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 1):
Obama is an amateur.

Amateur comes from the Latin ''amator'' which translates into ''Passionist'', someone who does something with passion, as a pasttime, not as a ''profession''; as President of the United States is considered more than a hobby, because it pays a salary, he is therefore a professional and not an amateur.

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
these neo-cons are out of their minds. They seem to exist in an alternate universe.

You don't say..

Quoting mham001 (Reply 7):
No, I don't really have any interest in spreading "democracy" to Egypt. You sound like what is being described as a neocon.

And our trade is dependent on that $2 biilion/year, remember?

And how much do you spend on ''the war on terror'', that such well-thought through calculations make necessary?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 10):
However we can't go interfereing, and the neocons want us too.
All over the world.

Because those are people who somehow believe that America is the center of the universe. If they realized America was just another country, which it is, then none of their beliefs would make sense anymore. Which is why your characterization of them as ''living in another universe'' is shared by virtually any other country - and every American who has actually left their own country.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6651 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
If, in Afghanistan, we had flattened every town from which we were fired on, using bombs, gunships and artillery, it is quite likely that we would not have had so many problems in Iraq

When did Afghanistan attack the US ? When did Iraq attack the US ? You were waging the war, don't forget that. It's exactly what neo-conservatism is about, using the US military to wage unnecessary wars, and benefit from it.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2482 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
It's exactly what neo-conservatism is about, using the US military to wage unnecessary wars, and benefit from it.

That isn't what neo-conservatism is about. Neo-conservatism is using military means to allow others to benefit from it. Neocons are people who will invade a country and then start building schools. Spreading democracy and all that.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2456 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
If, in Afghanistan, we had flattened every town from which we were fired on, using bombs, gunships and artillery, it is quite likely that we would not have had so many problems in Iraq and this week might never have happened.

Not really as that strategy would have required slaughtering massive numbers of civilians. Somehow, I don't see how slaughtering massive numbers of Muslim civilians would make the situation in Iraq, Libya, etc any better. Also, those we are fighting are not rational players that fear a "scorched earth" type policy.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
It comes back to the Bush Doctrine. If you attack us, we will hunt you down.

But how does that apply in Iraq? Iraq didn't attack us and Iraq posed little threat of every attacking us. Saddam may have been a threat to his own people, but he posed little threat to the U.S.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 23):

I agree with that... so you threw in race because...?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4515 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):


Anyone notice how this massively unified front from neo-cons is stating, in very clear terms, that the "United States is showing weakness". That's fine, eveyone is entitled to their opinion. But when it comes to outlining the course to follow, they are oh so purposefully vague. All you hear is "America is in retreat" in the Middle East.

What do they mean by that??

The only conclusion one can draw, is they want the USA to remain in Iraq, double down in Afghanistan, and that is just for starters. They want to bomb Iran, engage in Syria, put boots in Libya, become involved in Sudan, take action in Yemen, and in Pakistan, and in Egypt, and, and, and...

Look, I want a strong US response whenever events like the latest happen, but these neo-cons are out of their minds. They seem to exist in an alternate universe. Don't they realize we don't have the power, the treasure, or quite frankly, the lives to spare for their outrageous sketches? It is also very dangerous for them to create the narrative that the US leaving Iraq or Afghanistan is a sign of weakness. It is not a sign of weakness, it is what must happen. We don't BELONG there.



If these are the minds in line for a Romney administration (plus Romney himself, who has the ability to even piss of Britain, not even Dubya managed that), this Arab world policy, plus the "self-deportation" policy, plus Russia being America's #1 opponent, plus his apparent eagerness to just piss off China due to trade (not a bad idea, but the way he seems to want to do so is troubling)... boy, I fear for the future.




Very well said



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2317 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 26):
Very well said

If you enjoy comedy of the 'Dumb and Dumber' variety.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4618 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2286 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 25):
Oh, jeez... I don't know a single person who has ever objected to the man's race. We don't like his policies and priorities, and this week's events further exposes his woeful ignorance of how the world works - or maybe he just doesn't care about anything except for his own political career.

You come from the party of birthers where Barack's released Birth Certifcate is suspect, and Mitt's sealed Tax Returns are Golden.
You have nowhere to go here. There is deep racism in the GOP, and I suspect you must not get out much if you haven't seen it.

This weeks policies are what they should have been. Wait to find out what happened, instead of taking WAG's and hoping a dart lands. The GOP as you have mentioned made mea culpa's that got a lot of people killed in a place that is probably going to collapse under it's own weight. Libya , Egypt and Yemen need to find their way in the world. Unlike Iran, and Saudi Arabia, they will find it is a very lonely place as they have little in terms of natural resources to peg the interest of the rest of the world to their whims. Unfortunately that is also one of the feeding zone of the terrorists. However Libya is cooperating and arresting suspects. Just because Rush and Sean are ready to Bomb the world , and want to support dictators does not mean that that is a good foreign policy for the US.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8840 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):
You come from the party of birthers where Barack's released Birth Certifcate is suspect

While we might have a few birthers here and there, it is hardly widespread, and I have no use for them.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):
and Mitt's sealed Tax Returns are Golden.

And irrelevant. As long as he is not under investigation by the IRS for tax evasion, I'm fine with it. I am much more concerned with why Obama has spent so much money and effort to make sure that nobody sees his college records (he's supposed to be so smart - prove it) and other aspects of his past

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):
You have nowhere to go here. There is deep racism in the GOP, and I suspect you must not get out much if you haven't seen it.

I have not heard a single GOP person who has given me the slightest indication that Obama's race is a major issue to them. But I think the Democratic platform, which thrives on the position that black people need special favors and handouts and consideration, is inherently racist because it is based on the belief that they can't make it otherwise.

But let's keep race out of this. it is irrelevant to the subject at hand. Shame on you for bringing it up.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4618 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):

And irrelevant. As long as he is not under investigation by the IRS for tax evasion, I'm fine with it. I am much more concerned with why Obama has spent so much money and effort to make sure that nobody sees his college records (he's supposed to be so smart - prove it) and other aspects of his past

Nope nope nope.
Romney's tax records are much more important than a fake wild goose chase by the birthers, who are behind this phony record request. He graduated JD Magna Cum Laude from Harvard. I don't need to see his transcripts based on that info.
But maybe you do?
Romney's taxe on the other hand are a major question mark since it highlights his monetary policies.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
have not heard a single GOP person who has given me the slightest indication that Obama's race is a major issue to them

Then you are lucky. I have heard tons of people who dislike him based soley on that fact.

Race shouldn't be a factor , but it is , for many folks on both sides. I am meerly caling out the fact that the birthers and this college record rant of theirs has everything to do with racism.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23):
Shame on you for bringing it up.

Shame on those that stick their head in the sand and pretend that college transcripts and birth certificates are about the greater good, when they are based on something far more sinister.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
25 cws818 : What is with this right-wing fetish with the President's transcripts? Did seeing President Bush's (#43) transcripts make you more confident in his ab
26 MD11Engineer : Fine. They can go sabre rattling and start wars all they like. But then they´d better re-introduce the draft and convert the economy of the US into a
27 cws818 : Shame on him? Really? While you are clearly and obviously an honorable and thoughtful member of the Republican Party, the fact remains that all of th
28 seb146 : To quote Dick Cheney: Deficits don't matter. Unless those deficits go to help the American people. What I will never understand is: these right-winge
29 Post contains links pu : As Ken777 hints at (or implies) in his post, Israel plays the main role in this discussion and neo-con is largely a polite word for an ultra-pro-Isra
30 BMI727 : Often in the modern context this is generally true, but although neoconservatism is often associated with Jewish individuals, it actually grew out of
31 seb146 : And, as you point out, went from using no religion in their agenda to being all about religion. Tell me: which party is it that uses religion in ever
32 BMI727 : It's not all about religion though. Applying neocon principles to the Arab world appeals to the religious right, most notably George W. Bush, but it'
33 sccutler : This is interesting to me - I have often seen the "neo-con" tag applied in contexts entirely different from that you have described. There is a real
34 pu : Sure, there is cause for debate. Many on the left would probably be ok with some type of military involvement against terrorist cells, for instance.
35 sccutler : Absent the US' involvement, what you describe would almost certainly have occurred... and Aussies would be Waltzing Matilda with a Japanese beat. It
36 DeltaMD90 : I don't really think WWII was either for US security or for overseas interests as much... as corny as it sounds, I think a lot of it was "doing what
37 BMI727 : For what it's worth, when such issues do come up, neocons tend to follow their Democratic roots. If neocons ran a school, they would beat up the bull
38 usflyer msp : Neo-Con is one of those terms that, in our current political climate, really means "someone that I don't like." It lost its objective meaning during t
39 Max Q : Thats quite a statement. My first reaction was to say, absolutely no way but you may have a point. In the end the 'winner' wins and I can see that co
40 LTBEWR : Far too many of the war hawks or their children have never served a day in the military, or only did so in ways or times of less risk. When they and t
41 sccutler : This whole business of remote-control surveillance and assassination has a profoundly unsavory feel- and why should anyone rationally expect its use
42 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I forgot where I heard that from but I had a similar reaction. What if Spain stopped the US from expanding back in the day and killing most of the Na
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