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Birthers Arise In Kansas  
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8283 posts, RR: 8
Posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

I grew up thinking that Kansas was one of those "normal" states where nothing really happened there outside of college sports. It was one of those states that didn't have gays or lesbians. Just a quiet, stable state. Someplace where you were comfortable having 747s converted for special use as Air Force One.

But, to my amazement, Kansas has joined the really queer states - this time with Birthers, of all things.

Quote:

Birther alert: Kansas is considering tossing President Obama from the November ballot because it’s not sure that he’s a citizen. A citizen from Manhattan (Kansas) named Joe Montgomery filed a complaint to that effect, so the State Objections Board, controlled by Republicans, is duly looking into it. “I don’t think it’s a frivolous objection,” said the Kansas Secretary of State, Kris Kobach.

"Surely not", I thought. But then it gets worse:

Quote:

Mr. Kobach is the man who wrote several states’ show-me-your-papers immigration laws. Now he wants to see the president’s papers. The board has asked the authorities in Honolulu, Arizona and Mississippi for documentation to help settle the question of whether Mr. Obama is a “natural born” citizen, since his father was Kenyan and, in the view of some conspiracy theorists, the Constitution’s definition of “natural born” means having two citizen parents. They’re wrong about that, but it hasn’t stopped them.

I found it hard to believe that Kansas could actually be that backward. I thought maybe it was the heat wave this summer, diminishing wheat crops and common sense in the state. But then I read:

Quote:

“I do think the factual record could be supplemented,” said Mr. Kobach, who is also an informal adviser to Mitt Romney.

OK. That explains it. Romney keeps screwing these things up. He's working to keep Obama off the ballot in Kansas. Kansas is in Romney's pocket. They have never voted for a Black Man for President and probably never will. Romney should have picked a state that might go Obama.

Florida!

They have a wing nut as a Governor and has been working hard to have people removed from the rolls of eligible voters. With that kind of mentality Florida seems a natural for Birthers getting Obama off the ballot and actually making a difference if they are successful.

Link: http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/kansas-birthers/

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19732 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2841 times:

I find it interesting that for all the noise we hear from the Right about how the Democrats are trying to keep dead people on the ballot lists and commit voter fraud, it is the Right who is working hard to actually tamper with the democratic process.

The President has supplied both short and long forms of his COLB. His mother was an American citizen at the time of his birth. He was born in Hawai'i.

The best thing that the Obama campaign can do at this point is pin this one squarely on the Romney campaign. Use it to demonstrate that Romney actually hates democracy and is so afraid of democracy that he is going to try to figure out a go-around.

I don't think that they have been using this tactic enough and it's time to throw the "Un-American" and "Anti-American" label right back in the RNC's face.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4628 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Florida!

They have a wing nut as a Governor and has been working hard to have people removed from the rolls of eligible voters. With that kind of mentality Florida seems a natural for Birthers getting Obama off the ballot and actually making a difference if they are successful.

That won;t work too well, they are already discovering that the "plethora" of eligible voters that they purged, weren't quite so many

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/diana-...ge-florida-colorado_b_1881516.html


"Last year Colorado Secretary of State Scott Gessler declared a virtual state of emergency -- possibly 11,000 non-citizens on the Colorado voter rolls. Soon after, Secretary of State Ken Detzner in Florida upped the ante by claiming he had a list of 180,000 potential non-citizens. That got attention. Numbers like that indicate a massive problem. But the numbers weren't quite right. Not even close. The final count? According to Colorado it appears that up to 141 non-citizens could be on its voter rolls. That's .004 percent of its 3.5 million registered voters. Florida now reports that its numbers could be as high as ... 207. That's .002 percent of its 11.5 million registered voters. Error-ridden and inaccurate voter rolls are a problem, and any ineligible voter on the rolls should be removed. But playing fast and loose with numbers is not the way to do it.
"


Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
found it hard to believe that Kansas could actually be that backward.

Ken , this is the same state that had creationism backed as science.
Chalk it up to a stroke in a heatwave.

However i have read that the saner members of the GOP are planning to quash his request. Should be interesting to see it play out.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7914 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):

I grew up thinking that Kansas was one of those "normal" states where nothing really happened there outside of college sports.

Yes Ken, all 2,871,200 Kansans are birthers, including my Kansan roommate.

Seriously, giving birthers any attention is the worst thing we can do. Remember when GA "tried" the same thing to the President?

BIRTHERS ARE A SMALL MINORITY, even in the Republican party. I am not impressed with a lot that they do, but really, this is a fringe movement making a lot of noise. I'd bet my new car (well it's my wife's I guess) that the President will be on the KS ballot in November



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8283 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
Yes Ken, all 2,871,200 Kansans are birthers, including my Kansan roommate.

Actually, everyone I have know or worked with from Kansas have been pretty nice people. One reason why I kept my tongue in my cheek when writing the OP.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19732 posts, RR: 59
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2809 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
Seriously, giving birthers any attention is the worst thing we can do.

Well, when they try to subvert the electoral process, they need a bit of attention.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
I find it interesting that for all the noise we hear from the Right about how the Democrats are trying to keep dead people on the ballot lists and commit voter fraud,

You will notice that there is not one instance they can point to of large scale voter fraud. Even the defense in Pennsylvania admitted there have been NO INSTANCES of voter fraud. And they still feel the need for voter suppression laws.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2746 times:

Well he certainly is great at pointing out all the anti-GOP stuff that can be dug up. Im sure there's nothing given a different spin in what he posts. Lol.

I just love the term Birthers. Almost makes them sound relevant.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 2697 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
The best thing that the Obama campaign can do at this point is pin this one squarely on the Romney campaign.

And this is Romney's fault, how? This birther crap has been going on since Obama was first running for POTUS, AFAIK.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

As I have long said, if Pres. Obama had been born in Kansas instead of 'exotic' Hawaii or if his mother was still alive, none of this 'birther' stuff would be happening. I just hope some reasonable Republicans will reject these actions and make sure Kansas will have the President on the ballot.

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7914 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2622 times:

I actually like the theory that the birthers really don't employ but kinda makes you go hmmm... the one that Hawaii was taken over injustly and they should be their own country, therefore it is/was not really part of the US so anyone born there is not a citizen (making the President a non-US citizen.) Not that I buy into it, I just think it's kinda funny


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5395 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2595 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):

And this is Romney's fault, how? This birther crap has been going on since Obama was first running for POTUS,

Unlike McCain in 2008, Romney's done nothing to repudiate the Birthers in his circle. If you'll recall, he did nothing to distance himself from Trump after he went hardcore Birther, stating "You know, I don't agree with all the people who support me and my guess is they don't all agree with everything I believe in. But I need to get 50.1% or more and I'm appreciative to have the help of a lot of good people." Since then, Romney has held fundraisers with Trump and has done little o squelch the Birther influence within the party. Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett was the guy who got into a very public grudge match with the state of Hawaii for a "verification" of Obama's natural records. He was also Romney's campaign chair in AZ. As previously pointed out, Kobach is an adviser to Romney on immigration, as previously pointed out. Had Romney done more to purge these elements from his own campaign, I have a feeling it'd just be the same old suspects (Taitz, Apuzzo, Farah, Arpaio, etc) playing flirty Birther games.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 29
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

There are always useful idiots on both sides. Relying on that as some sort of proof of something is a little silly. It happens with all candidates every election and quite often the candidates either don't address it or give it lip service.

Nothing new here.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19732 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
And this is Romney's fault, how? This birther crap has been going on since Obama was first running for POTUS, AFAIK.

First of all, Romney could respond. He could say that he will withdraw from the ballot if Obama is removed or something. Some statement of solidarity with democracy and with reality. Something to make him actually look like a statesman. Back when all this Birther nonsense started, McCain made it very clear that he thought it was so much horsepiss. But then again, McCain is actually a statesman.

Second, this is a Romney advisor. "Informal," perhaps, but someone tightly tied with Romney. Romney could sit this guy down and go "knock it off. You're making me look bad."

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):

I actually like the theory that the birthers really don't employ but kinda makes you go hmmm... the one that Hawaii was taken over injustly and they should be their own country, therefore it is/was not really part of the US so anyone born there is not a citizen (making the President a non-US citizen.) Not that I buy into it, I just think it's kinda funny

That still doesn't work because his mother was a citizen.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 12):
There are always useful idiots on both sides.

No, stop. This is called "trying to act balanced for balance's sake." There is no conspiracy theory coming from the Democrats that Romney isn't a citizen or any such horsepiss.

There is a growing disconnect between the Right and reality. When you have Romney campaign members saying that "We don't want our campaign being run by fact checkers," and entire GOP campaigns being based around the absolute denial of proven facts, there is a big problem. There is no such phenomenon on the left. You may disagree with the left's interpretation of the significance of those facts, but there is not a large-scale rejection of facts themselves.

This idea that you have to treat both sides equally is fundamentally UN-balanced because one side is behaving very differently from the other.


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6001 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2540 times:

As mentioned above, this was an all-Republican, three man board, with virtually unlimited powers (there are no provisions for appealing their decisions) - oh, and it's chaired by an 'informal advisor' to Mitt Romney!

It won't go anywhere though, Joe Montgomery, who filed the original petition, has withdrawn it, although the objections board will still meet on Monday. Great news for them though, Orly Taitz heard about it and not only is she going to make an appearance on monday, she has also threatened to add them to one of her lawsuits, unless they remove Obama from the ballot!   


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8283 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
First of all, Romney could respond. He could say that he will withdraw from the ballot if Obama is removed or something

That would take a backbone - something that McCain has and Romney apparently doesn't. I don't even consider integrity when looking at Romney.

It is a pity that with so many bright guys in the GOP who do have a backbone they had to select The Etch-A-Sketch guy who is afraid to tell the Birthers to shove it,

Actually, it looks like Huntsman was the only outstanding candidate in the primaries. Pity that.

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 14):
Joe Montgomery, who filed the original petition, has withdrawn it,

Poor Joe. He thought he was being a Cute Conservative when he filed that dumb a$$ petition. Now it appears he has had a huge level of backlash and ridicule. That dumb move will follow him all the way to his grave.


User currently offlinejohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2592 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

Maybe they can put an unborn fetus on the ballot.
That would really bring out the wingnut vote.
 


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19732 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 15):
It is a pity that with so many bright guys in the GOP who do have a backbone they had to select The Etch-A-Sketch guy who is afraid to tell the Birthers to shove it,

It is a sign of the underlying malaise affecting the GOP. They absolutely do not want someone who is reasonable or someone who will consider facts. They want someone who will claim the sky is red if Obama says that it is blue.

The GOP is going to shoot itself in the foot this way and they are going to lose this election, they are going to lose the Senate again, and they might even lose ground in the House. Their base has swung SO far to the right that basic facts and figures are meaningless. You have candidates telling enormous factual lies during campaigns. Raped women don't get pregnant. People in the Netherlands are afraid to go to the hospital because they'll get euthanized. Evolution is a hoax. Global warming is a hoax. Obama is a non-citizen. Obama is a Muslim. Gay marriage will lead to children being taught to try homosexuality in schools. Etc. etc. etc.

This sort of buffoonery is turning off swing voters. This is why Obama is going to win this election handily and even with a mandate.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7914 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
This sort of buffoonery is turning off swing voters. This is why Obama is going to win this election handily and even with a mandate.

   I even texted my sister today telling her I'm becoming more and more of a Democrat everyday, not because of what they're doing right, because of how ridiculous the GOP is becoming. The party (not all citizens on the right) is continually moving more and more right... actually it's more of a strange 3 direction. Hopefully when they lose in November they'll either get a grip on reality or a better party will come and replace them (Libertarians ftw!)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3470 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2505 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 11):
Unlike McCain in 2008, Romney's done nothing to repudiate the Birthers in his circle

Unlike McCain, Romney wasn't born in Panama at the public hospital in Colon (not the PCZ). He didn't want the issue brought up.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 2457 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 14):
oh, and it's chaired by an 'informal advisor' to Mitt Romney!

How do we even let this sort of stuff happen? That's just flat-out embarrassing. If you're involved in a campaign, you should not be involved in running the electoral system at all. That should be common sense.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 699 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Well, when they try to subvert the electoral process, they need a bit of attention.

Actually, for people who want Obama to win, they should probably send off a donation to these birthers, put a yard sign up questioning Obama's birth and post on internet forums that Obama is an Al Qaeda sleeper agent, born into Islam, etc...

It would be a great victory for the Democrats if Obama was removed from the ballot in Kansas. He's not going to win this reddest of red states anyway, may as well let the Republicans make clowns of themselves by trying to remove the Democratic nominee from the ballot.

...nothing further repels moderate voters, the swing voters that decide every US election, than extremism.

Pu


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2420 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
. It was one of those states that didn't have gays or lesbians

I guess we see Kansas differently. I lived in Lawrence, Kansas for six months about twenty years ago. I had more (homo) sex there than I ever had in Los Angeles.

It was my first experience of living in America and I was quite amazed at the number of married men who sought me out. I didn't go looking, there was no need.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2366 times:

Sorry Doc but I just see it differently. I'm not trying to "balance" anything. I'm just resigned to the fact that the charade we call party politics draws plenty of wing nuts out from all directions. If you wish to claim that only the GOP has made misleading statements or sounded off their rocker at times, that's your choice. I'm getting to the point where I just want to lift myself up out of the morass and let the mud slinging and finger pointing consume someone else's time and attention.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

Quoting pu (Reply 21):
..nothing further repels moderate voters, the swing voters that decide every US election, than extremism.

I agree, as a centre right voter, extremism is driving my opinion towards the centre.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 23):
I'm just resigned to the fact that the charade we call party politics draws plenty of wing nuts out from all directions.

America has become very partisan. but it seems that there are far more right wing loonies driving me towards the centre, rather than left wing loonies driving me towards the right.



The world is really getting smaller these days
25 pu : The right wing is more dogmatic and devoted to a doctrine about how government should work. In America anway. The Democrats are more pragmatic it see
26 casinterest : It's not that both political parties don't have a problem, it's just that the GOP has a way of adopting a strongly evangelic christian attitude that
27 bjorn14 : Because of the media and educational system in America leftwing nuts are the new normal. They only call it compromise when Republicans agree with Dem
28 DeltaMD90 : The Republicans are redefining the word "uncompromising." It's sickening. And I'm no leftwingnut... I was a Republican just a few years ago. They've
29 Aesma : US "leftwing nuts" would be centrists in Europe. Obama would be a Christian Democrat (aka center right).
30 pu : Agree very much with your sentiments, and I am a lifelong Republican (until Bush the younger redefined the party). . Reagan's party of controlling go
31 DeltaMD90 : Almost all wasted. Unfortunately where the money does go often goes to some very strong/influential organizations Not to mention capital punishment..
32 DocLightning : No. I am claiming that: 1) If you look on a site like factcheck.org, you see that the GOP gets dinged a *lot* more than the DNC. I'm not saying that
33 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Well being cynical, you could say we're very left, compared to religious theocracies (assuming we exclude Rick Santorum )
34 garnetpalmetto : The scary thing is, if you check out some of the Birther case filings, it's pretty clear that's what some of them would like us to become - arguments
35 PlanesNTrains : Doc, while what you say is accurate to a point, I'm looking back over the years and seeing a general disconnect with reality and/or the populace by bo
36 PlanesNTrains : DeltaMD80, I'm curious why you only consider the non-GOP option to be a Democrat? If you are a conservative, is there another party that you could ali
37 PlanesNTrains : Total side note, but is there a non-partisan website that you can go to and complete something akin to a multiple choice, fill-in-the-circle selection
38 Max Q : Well said Doc
39 Post contains images CPH-R : Ladies and Gentlemen of the great state of Kansas, Orly Taitz has arrived This, as they say, is going to be one for the ages...
40 Post contains links casinterest : http://www.votesmart.org They should tell you amongst 7 or 8 candidates //end sidebar
41 bjorn14 : Well ask the Dems about Ralph Nader in 2000. They believe his Green Party shenanigans cost the Dems the election. But in reality Gore couldn't carry
42 garnetpalmetto : As if that poor drought-stricken state hasn't already suffered enough! Will the steaming truckloads of...err...Taitz cause fertilizer sales to plumme
43 Post contains images sw733 : I've lived in Kansas for 10 years now, and it has been that way throughout. Getting worse recently, though. Indeed, Kansans are incredibly friendly p
44 garnetpalmetto : So anybody know if somebody has dropped a house on Orly yet?
45 casinterest : The Florida vote was more consequential. If we are going on home states, Mitt is not going to win. Michigan and even Wisconsin are likely obama state
46 Post contains images mariner : Tell me. The blokes I met up with mostly came from the red part of the state, come to the Big City (LOL) I guess to find a bit of whoopee. mariner
47 DeltaMD90 : Well for simplicity I'll often boil it down to D and R, though I'm a lot more closely aligned to the Libertarian Party (and I very much like Gary Joh
48 Post contains links JetBlueGuy2006 : According to CNN, the President will appear on the ballot after the challenge was dropped http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...t-after-birther-chall
49 PlanesNTrains : Thanks. I'll check it out. Did a very brief one on some other site yesterday that said I'm an anarchist. Lol -Dave
50 Post contains links Aesma : In 2008 a website said I should vote for Brian Moore should I have the chance, now http://www.votesmart.org is telling me to vote Obama, then Rocky An
51 DocLightning : If we want to use a religious theocracy as a model standard by which to judge ourselves. I think we can do better than that. I think that comparing o
52 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Hm, 81% Gary Johnson, 80% Ron Paul were my highest (not surprised.) But I am surprised at my Romney and Obama, 67% and 27% respectively. I didn't thi
53 Post contains images ALTF4 : I was going to reply, because I think Ken777 was pretty spot on with most of his post. Until I saw this: Shit like this pisses me off. Yep, you have t
54 DiamondFlyer : Likewise, I've lived there for 16 years now, and have noticed the same things. The crazies just keep getting crazier. Yup, I'd agree on this point 10
55 garnetpalmetto : Sure, you can disagree with the President without being a racist, but many in the Birther movement are unabashed racists. Head over to a site like Bi
56 DeltaMD90 : I think he's talking about bringing the race thing out of the blue. It does piss me off to no end when it randomly pops up as a "oh if you disagree w
57 PlanesNTrains : To the balance thing, I'm done with it. In regards to your idea that I said we couldn't or shouldn't learn from what other countries do, I guess I wa
58 DocLightning : I agree that the Birther thing is not about Obama's race. It is about his last name. If his last name were "Wilson," I doubt it would have been an is
59 Aesma : You're right, I'd rather take another test with a cursor for each answer. Here there is a cursor for the importance the question has to you but I fee
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