Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Chick-Fil-A Recants Anti-gay Stance  
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19942 posts, RR: 59
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

http://chicagophoenix.com/2012/09/18...-mandates-equal-treatment-of-gays/

Quote:
After months of negotiations with Ald. Proco “Joe” Moreno over its anti-gay positions and donations, Chick-fil-A has agreed to cease donations from its non-profit charity to anti-gay organizations and issued a company-wide internal mandate calling for the equal treatment of all employees and customers, the alderman said.

Well, well, well. Seems like money talks. On the one hand, I'm happy. On the other hand, I am cynical about how people with "strong religious convictions" can suddenly find new religion when there is enough money involved.

Chick-Fil-A still has no corporate antidiscrimination policy and some LGBT employees are still harrassed. I still dislike the way that they mix business and religion, as well, so I won't be eating there any time soon. But this is a step in the right direction and an encouraging sign that the tide is turning in favor of equality and justice.

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2807 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3624 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

They probably enjoyed the nice little boost they got when the news broke about it and now that it leveled back down they want to capitalize on their mistake. Should be interesting to see what they do from here on out though. Something tells me they aren't going to have workplace equality rules in the near future though.
Blue



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
User currently offlinedarthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

I don't mean to argue or disagree with anyone, but in my opinion, I don't think Chick-Fil-A really cares. They are still anti-gay. The LGBT didn't win a single thing. It's a publicity stunt and a business move. Yes, I know the anti-gay organization is losing funding which could be considered a win, but as for Chick-Fil-A, you didn't win a single thing. It's all about business. I don't think they are losing money off of this. They just want to go into markets where they wouldn't let them because of them being anti-gay. It's not that they are losing, it is just that they want to make more money. But that's just my opinion.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Seems like money talks.

Keep in mind they made a new profit record the day that everyone went to Chick-Fil-A to support them. Yes, I know that was an organized effort to support them, and it was expected they would make a lot of money, but it just shows how many people still support them.

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
On the other hand, I am cynical about how people with "strong religious convictions" can suddenly find new religion when there is enough money involved.

Agreed.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

Wow I'm actually shocked. I know it's not all about money with them since they are closed on Sunday


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3580 times:

So now for someone to be able to open a shop in a neighborhood in Chicago they can only give money to charities some local mob boss agrees with? This sets a very, very dangerous precedent for the U.S. Then again, coming a state where the role of governor seems to be nothing but a stepping stone to Federal prison, what would you expect?

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Chick-Fil-A still has no corporate antidiscrimination policy

Ok, so now they will have a written piece of paper nobody will ever read so they can stick in a drawer - does that satisfy your inner bureaucrat or do they need to hire 5 "diversity managers" or some bull-shit position like that for you to be satisfied?



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
So now for someone to be able to open a shop in a neighborhood in Chicago they can only give money to charities some local mob boss agrees with? This sets a very, very dangerous precedent for the U.S. Then again, coming a state where the role of governor seems to be nothing but a stepping stone to Federal prison, what would you expect?

#1 - the Constitutionality of Chicago barring CFA was shaky from BOTH sides, the closest they got was for CFA to adopt anti-discrimination rules that included LGBT

#2 - who says they made this announcement so they could expand in Boston or Chicago?

Careful where you draw your conclusions



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3549 times:

BTW

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Chick-Fil-A still has no corporate antidiscrimination policy

"
From: Management
To: All Chick-Fil-A employees
Subject: Corporate Anti-Discrimination Policy

Dear Colleagues,

Effective immediately, Chick-Fil-A will start implementing a new Corporate Anti-Discrimination Policy. That policy is described below:

1. You shall not discriminate

Sincerely,

Management
"

There, does that work or do you want them to hire a lawyer to write another 10 pages of worthless drivel? If not, I think I just saved them some money, have to see if I can have them pay my fees in Waffle Fries.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1872 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3547 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
Ok, so now they will have a written piece of paper nobody will ever read so they can stick in a drawer - does that satisfy your inner bureaucrat or do they need to hire 5 "diversity managers" or some bull-shit position like that for you to be satisfied?

That "piece of paper nobody will ever read" gives the company legal recourse in the event there is ever a provable case of discrimination.



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
So now for someone to be able to open a shop in a neighborhood in Chicago they can only give money to charities some local mob boss agrees with?

The mayor of a city vocalizes that he doesn't like a company that donates to anti-gay organizations...so that makes him a mob boss? Cool story.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 6):

You're going to give yourself a heart attack one of these days with that kind of anger, Pyrex.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 7):
That "piece of paper nobody will ever read" gives the company legal recourse in the event there is ever a provable case of discrimination.

So... CYA?



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1872 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3529 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 8):
So... CYA?

Ya, pretty much!

No matter what my beliefs are, if I'm running a business I want my ass covered against everything. I'd never want to see the inside of a courtroom unless I'm the one doing the suing.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19942 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 2):
I don't mean to argue or disagree with anyone, but in my opinion, I don't think Chick-Fil-A really cares. They are still anti-gay. The LGBT didn't win a single thing.

They don't care and they are still anti-gay and yet we got them to sing a tune we like. And that is a victory. A small one, but a real one.

If anything, it certainly makes them look like a bunch of hypocrites for caving in.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
So now for someone to be able to open a shop in a neighborhood in Chicago they can only give money to charities some local mob boss agrees with?

That is a civic government, not a mob. If you have proof that it is a mob, then you can present it. I'm sure the Chicago DA would be keen to know.

[Edited 2012-09-19 22:02:19]

User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3493 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 7):
You're going to give yourself a heart attack one of these days

Nah, not in my genes. Will have a stroke way before that.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):

If anything, it certainly makes them look like a bunch of hypocrites for caving in.

It certainly does make some gay activists look like hypocrites for caring so much about a chain of fast food they vowed to completely boycott just a few weeks ago.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently onlinePellegrine From France, joined Mar 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

I'm gay, a decent number of my friends are, and we aren't about to run to a Chick-Fil-What??? Never mind we live in downtown DC and NY LOL we don't see such hillbilly conservative nonsense. LOL


oh boy!!!
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5555 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 7):
The mayor of a city vocalizes that he doesn't like a company that donates to anti-gay organizations...so that makes him a mob boss? Cool story.

No, no, no. His vocalizations don't make him a mob boss, his mob boss status makes him a mob boss.  



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19942 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3484 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11):

It certainly does make some gay activists look like hypocrites for caring so much about a chain of fast food they vowed to completely boycott just a few weeks ago.

No it doesn't. I don't see them rushing to it. And a boycott is to get a company to change a behavior. If they change it, you stop the boycott.


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2630 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3378 times:

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 2):
I don't mean to argue or disagree with anyone, but in my opinion, I don't think Chick-Fil-A really cares. They are still anti-gay. The LGBT didn't win a single thing. It's a publicity stunt and a business move. Yes, I know the anti-gay organization is losing funding which could be considered a win, but as for Chick-Fil-A, you didn't win a single thing. It's all about business. I don't think they are losing money off of this. They just want to go into markets where they wouldn't let them because of them being anti-gay. It's not that they are losing, it is just that they want to make more money. But that's just my opinion.

Yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up.
No big deal, I can still choose not to do business there ever again, too.

When in Atlanta, in early August I made a telephone call and did manage to get through to Truett's secretary.
I went through my little shtick of growing-up in Atlanta and eating at the (original in Hapeville) Dwarf House thousands of times, etc.
I took great pleasure in reminding her that I remembered quite a few gay employees----who were great at their jobs and did much for the public relations of the restaurant-------AND who helped grow Chick-Fil-A into the huge money machine that it has become. It was off of the sweat of those caring gay employees that the Cathys became VERY rich people. That in turn allowed them the ability to donate money to various charitable causes. So, I think it can be said that gay people helped fund the Cathy family's various charities.

To her credit, the woman was very nice to me. She did give me the usual "corporate" response about non-discrimination, etc. yet she agreed that "any of their gay employees that she knew of were very good".

In the end I felt like it had been worthwhile making the phone call.
I will still likely never step foot in another Chick-Fil-A again, though.

The whole business reminds me of one of my favorite bumper stickers;

I like Christ

I do not like most of his Christians

They are so unlike their Christ.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1378 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3194 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):
I'd never want to see the inside of a courtroom unless I'm the one doing the suing.

Even then, it's likely not a good thing.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 11):

It certainly does make some gay activists look like hypocrites for caring so much about a chain of fast food they vowed to completely boycott just a few weeks ago

How? Neither gay, nor an activist here, but I for one think this is not enough. While it is a step in the right direction, I won't be patronizing them until they can do something more substantial in this regard.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12119 posts, RR: 49
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3169 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Already caught donating again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...ns-dan-cathy-tweet-_n_1901146.html

Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinedl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

Knowing some of the players at the top of the Chic Fil A food chain I'll say that it's not about money.

They're more worried about their eternal souls than anything else, and that's fairly sincere. They were taken aback by the reactions on both sides, and horrified that people thought they hated anyone. Hatred isn't really part of their corporate credo, or intended method of operation.

A lot of people opportunistically, or perhaps ignorantly, but certainly melodramatically accused them of hatred. Dan Cathy voiced his opinion of what he thought traditional marriage was, and that family usually puts its money where it's mouth is. Ask the thousands of kids they've sent to college, or the thousands of people they've put into business. They run a clean business, with polite employees who are pretty well trained. The food is outstanding (although not particularly healthy for you, as with most fast food) and they run a good business on the back end, making money all around.

The reaction they're having now is based on their leaderships desire to do right by people and make decisions they can live with. I realize alot of people don't believe that, and are jaded by their colored perceptions and the incredible hype that surrounds anything in this age of 24 hour news cycles and internet blog hysteria that has fueled so many electronic riots (defined as people reaction irrationally but violently/virulently), but these folks close a day a week to keep with their faith, and they define it for their employees as a day of rest. I don't see them denying anyone jobs, and while I'm certain that in places (as with any other workplace) there will be issues with discrimination between people, but the corporation has always striven to treat customers equally and well.

Like their definition of marriage or not, they don't hate people based on sexual orientation. They are seeking, in their minds, to protect the institutions of family as they understand them. This could have been handled much better with reasoned discourse and persuasion rather than hysterical name calling and chest thumping. Now, neither side will be happy, and no real progress has been made in the development of our society through mutual understanding. More suspicion and acrimony will take place and the idea that threatening and screaming is the path to follow is reinforced.

So, keep assuming whatever you want.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12119 posts, RR: 49
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3124 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting dl021 (Reply 18):
They're more worried about their eternal souls than anything else, and that's fairly sincere. They were taken aback by the reactions on both sides, and horrified that people thought they hated anyone. Hatred isn't really part of their corporate credo, or intended method of operation.

I do have to agree with you on this and I believe you hit the nail on the head.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3084 times:

Quoting dl021 (Reply 18):
They are seeking, in their minds, to protect the institutions of family as they understand them.

Same here...I'm just trying to protect the institution of family as I understand it. What is wrong with that?

I really don't have anything against colored people, I just don't think they should mix with white people. I worry about the kids...how will they know what race they are? How will they know where they belong? How can they grow up to be well-adjusted adults coming from a mixed marriage?

And what about the pure white or pure black kids who see these mixed couples out in public? They're going to think it's perfectly OK to just go ahead and marry somebody who's not the same color! What if everybody did that?

This is a genuine threat to the institution of marriage and the traditional family values that I believe in, and that this country was founded upon. I agree that people should have basically the same legal rights, but marriage is a completely different issue. These seperate races were created by God, that is his plan, and who are we to mix them? It goes against the natural order of things. I have every right as an American to believe this and advocate for laws protecting the institution of marriage.

****
Sorry if that alarmed or offended anyone. Just illustrating how specious the 'protecting the family' argument really is.

The funny part of all of this is that anyone even cares what they think...as though selling a lot of fatty chicken sandwiches somehow qualifies a man to guide the rest of us through life's journey.

[Edited 2012-09-21 10:22:38]

User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1872 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3070 times:

Quoting dl021 (Reply 18):
Dan Cathy voiced his opinion of what he thought traditional marriage was, and that family usually puts its money where it's mouth is.

Exactly, and they put towards a cause that actively tries to take away rights from homosexuals who wish to enjoy the institution of marriage. If the Cathys are so appalled that people accuse them of hating gays, then they must be blind, deaf and dumb, because there's no way they didn't know what they were donating money to. If the Cathys are so benevolent, there are plenty of other needy charities that don't discriminate.

Quoting dl021 (Reply 18):
Ask the thousands of kids they've sent to college, or the thousands of people they've put into business.

Is this supposed to make up for all that other stuff?

Quoting dl021 (Reply 18):
but the corporation has always striven to treat customers equally and well.

There's no doubt in my mind that the corporation strives for excellence. But the Cathys represent the corporation, they are the corporation...and it's because of that that their business will suffer because of their personal views on people's sexuality.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12722 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3064 times:

Seems those posters who INSISTED that the Mayor of Boston would be dealing will millions of dollars of legal fees after being sued by Chick-Fil-A need to line up for their serving of humble pie.

Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 2):
I don't mean to argue or disagree with anyone, but in my opinion, I don't think Chick-Fil-A really cares. They are still anti-gay. The LGBT didn't win a single thing. It's a publicity stunt and a business move. Yes, I know the anti-gay organization is losing funding which could be considered a win, but as for Chick-Fil-A, you didn't win a single thing. It's all about business. I don't think they are losing money off of this.

LGBT and everyone else won. Chick-Fil-A learned the hard way that they need to stick to running chicken restaurants and not burden us with their other concerns.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 4):
So now for someone to be able to open a shop in a neighborhood in Chicago they can only give money to charities some local mob boss agrees with?

-1 for the poor quality post.

You were wrong. Too bad you can't bring yourself to admit it instead of bringing up unrelated topics.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13644 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3047 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
I don't see them rushing to it. And a boycott is to get a company to change a behavior.

It's not much of a boycott when you vow to stop going to a business you never went to in the first place.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12119 posts, RR: 49
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3031 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
I don't see them rushing to it. And a boycott is to get a company to change a behavior.

It's not much of a boycott when you vow to stop going to a business you never went to in the first place.

Well said, I can count on one hand the number of time I ate at this place.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19942 posts, RR: 59
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3044 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
It's not much of a boycott when you vow to stop going to a business you never went to in the first place.

It must have worked, though. Or they wouldn't have changed their tune.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26601 posts, RR: 75
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
the Constitutionality of Chicago barring CFA was shaky from BOTH sides, the closest they got was for CFA to adopt anti-discrimination rules that included LGBT

CFA was not banned at all. It was made clear they are unwelcome because they support discrimination, and that their policies may not comport with Illinois employment laws.

Quoting dl021 (Reply 18):
They're more worried about their eternal souls than anything else, and that's fairly sincere. They were taken aback by the reactions on both sides, and horrified that people thought they hated anyone. Hatred isn't really part of their corporate credo, or intended method of operation.

There is nothing sincere about supporting discrimination.

Quoting dl021 (Reply 18):
Like their definition of marriage or not, they don't hate people based on sexual orientation.

Of course they do.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 23):
It's not much of a boycott when you vow to stop going to a business you never went to in the first place.

Actually, I liked their grilled chicken sandwich and saw them springing up here in Southern California. Too bad - they lost my business.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5675 posts, RR: 10
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

Does anyone here stay at Marriott? Because the owners there also "support traditional marriage" just as the Cathys do.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5404 posts, RR: 53
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 27):


Does anyone here stay at Marriott? Because the owners there also "support traditional marriage" just as the Cathys do.

But does that support translate into monetary donations to groups that do things like seeking to make homosexuality a capital offense in certain countries, stigmatizing gays and lesbians, and seeking to block marriage equality here?



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinedl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3017 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):
Quoting dl021 (Reply 18):Like their definition of marriage or not, they don't hate people based on sexual orientation.
Of course they do.

I know that it fits your worldview to believe that, but you have either a weak sense of the word hatred or you are just flat wrongheaded here.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 20):
Same here...I'm just trying to protect the institution of family as I understand it. What is wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing, unless you're one of the folks taking the "hatred" tack and getting hysterical. It's counterproductive, and even when strides are made to address concerns very little is heard from the complaintants other than more vitriol and insults. Sort of like when a bully coerces a submission from a victim, and then insults the victim for it. There is no mutual understanding or respect. Without that there will be no real progress on gaining acceptance of your worldview with the people you'd like ot persuade. And if you don't persuade them you wont get what you want. Coercion doesn't do much other than reinforce ideals and build resentments.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 19):
Quoting dl021 (Reply 18):They're more worried about their eternal souls than anything else, and that's fairly sincere. They were taken aback by the reactions on both sides, and horrified that people thought they hated anyone. Hatred isn't really part of their corporate credo, or intended method of operation.
I do have to agree with you on this and I believe you hit the nail on the head.

I'm not saying their stance on marriage is all that evolved, but it's not about hatred, and the whole martyrdom thing going on is pretty weak, in my opinion. The comparisons to the civil rights movement just proves that most folks today have no idea what that was all about. If a homosexual is attacked or beaten for being homosexual the attackers are pursued and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. There are no legal impediments to voting, using lunch counters or riding on public transportation. The marriage issue is a valid concern, due to legal technicalities, but many fear that the marriage issue is one where homosexuals are trying to force not just acceptance but approbation of their existence by the mass public. That may not be right, but it's something many believe. There is also the issue of benefits abuse, where people pretend at marriage in order to gain some legal or financial benefits. That's another concern where folks are concerned about the further degradation of marriage as a stability enhancing institution.

I personally feel that any laws concerning family or marriage ought to be centered on the protection of children, and family law issues concerning estate issues. Government really doesn't have any place in defining marriage unless next of kin is being identified for some reason, and if someone wants to get married they shouold just go find a preacher and do it. Or not.

This whole thing heated up easily via the internet, and the ease with which people can immediately react without considering everything. They listen to the loudest, usually unvetted, enhusiasts on either side who loudly proclaim that they have the only right answers and that anyone who disagrees with them is a terrorist/hate criminal/idiot. That's just a dumb way to engage in arguments



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19942 posts, RR: 59
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Quoting dl021 (Reply 29):
I know that it fits your worldview to believe that, but you have either a weak sense of the word hatred or you are just flat wrongheaded here.

If you think that you are better than I am because of your religious beliefs and you believe that I don't deserve certain rights that you do deserve because of your religious beliefs, that's hate. You want to do something that hurts my family and me, that's hate.

The Neo-Nazis in this country claim that they don't hate; they just love the White race. That doesn't make them any less hateful.


User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2997 times:

Quoting dl021 (Reply 29):

I hope it was abundantly clear that the racism in my post was intended to be sarcasm!

Even so, in response to your post, my position is that the idea that anyone can claim one "right" definition of marriage according to their particular value system is misguided at best or bigotry at worst.

Which is not to say anything goes,for the reasons you mentioned.


User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5404 posts, RR: 53
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2993 times:

Quoting dl021 (Reply 29):

I'm not saying their stance on marriage is all that evolved, but it's not about hatred, and the whole martyrdom thing going on is pretty weak, in my opinion. The comparisons to the civil rights movement just proves that most folks today have no idea what that was all about. If a homosexual is attacked or beaten for being homosexual the attackers are pursued and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. There are no legal impediments to voting, using lunch counters or riding on public transportation. The marriage issue is a valid concern, due to legal technicalities, but many fear that the marriage issue is one where homosexuals are trying to force not just acceptance but approbation of their existence by the mass public. That may not be right, but it's something many believe. There is also the issue of benefits abuse, where people pretend at marriage in order to gain some legal or financial benefits. That's another concern where folks are concerned about the further degradation of marriage as a stability enhancing institution.

For me personally, my boycott of Chick-fil-A wasn't about the Cathy's viewpoints as they're perfectly entitled to them. I may disagree with it, but it's their opinion. My bone of contention was that I didn't want to spend money knowing that a portion of that would go to WinShape which would then in turn go to organizations like Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council, and Exodus International. If I knew that a company I frequented funneled a portion of their profits to a group like the KKK, for instance, I'd similarly be upset and boycott them. I took the news that broke that WinShape would stop donating money to these groups as good news. I'll be honest, I was a frequent customer - my wife and I would visit around twice a month and on road trips they were usually our "go-to" fast food option - we were always impressed by how clean Chick-fil-A's stores were, how friendly their staff was, and that they also offered healthier alternatives (their grilled sandwiches, wraps, and salads, as well as being able to get a side salad or fruit in place of fries). The news that they're continuing to donate to these sorts of groups is disheartening and I hope that they'll rethink this.

Ian, as for your other points here, I do have to respectfully disagree. While the Emmett Tills, Medgar Evers, Isaac Woodards, Louis Allens helped to bring about hate crimes legislation that protect victims of bias crimes and ensure the prosecution of their victimizers, that doesn't make bias crimes against the LGBTQ community any "less bad" - this is still a struggle for civil rights and I'm sure the Matt Shepards and Brandon Teenas out there would agree with me on that. While there aren't legal impediments to voting, access to public transportation, or access to public accommodations, there are legal impediments to adoption, access to next of kin, survivor benefits, hospital visitation, and the like - things that I would have access to for my wife but that some dear friends of ours wouldn't have with their partners. As far as benefits abuse go - it goes on in heterosexual marriages, too. One shouldn't punish all out of concern for abuses a small minority may potentially take. As for the fear of legitimizing a behavior some disagree with, we've crossed that bridge. There are still people out there who give my wife and I funny looks because we're an interracial couple and our marriage, which would have been illegal 50 years ago, is now perfectly legal.

Anyway, that's my take on it. I know both my wife and I will continue our boycott in light of this recent news.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26601 posts, RR: 75
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Quoting dl021 (Reply 29):
I know that it fits your worldview to believe that, but you have either a weak sense of the word hatred or you are just flat wrongheaded here.

Intolerance is seeded by hatred. The Cathy's support/have supported organizations that advocate the criminalization - by death or life imprisonment - of homosexuality. That is hatred - not "support for 'traditional' marriage"



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3656 posts, RR: 5
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2971 times:

Quoting dl021 (Reply 29):
. There is also the issue of benefits abuse, where people pretend at marriage in order to gain some legal or financial benefits.

That is something that is currently being done only by straight couples - along with fake marriages to gain immigration status. Why is that a reason to be against gay marriage? I see that people come up with all sorts of doomsday theories without giving one good reason why a gay couple getting married causes a problem while a straight marriage does not.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26601 posts, RR: 75
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

BTW, they didn't recant anything

http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/0...th-regard-to-its-giving/?mobile=nc



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4212 posts, RR: 37
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 month 7 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

Who cares? They are the best chicken sandwiches anywhere... not all greasy and fatty like KFC and the like.

It's just a fast food store, not some huge cause. Talk about making mountains out of mole hills.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5404 posts, RR: 53
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 36):
Who cares?

I, for one, do. I'd rather my hard-earned money not go to hate groups.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4212 posts, RR: 37
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 month 6 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 37):
I, for one, do. I'd rather my hard-earned money not go to hate groups.

So, let me get this straight- prior to every purchase that you make, you do a complete background check on every cent that corporation has given money to?



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5404 posts, RR: 53
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 38):

So, let me get this straight- prior to every purchase that you make, you do a complete background check on every cent that corporation has given money to?

No, but when I become informed of such donations and I verify that it's not jut some Internet urban legend, I take action. In turn, let me pose a question to you - let's say it hadn't been this set of hate groups. Let's say it was found Winshape donated money to a group that was a front for the KKK or a multitude of other racist hate groups and was unabashed about continuing donations. Are you saying that you wouldn't, without a second thought, continue to patronize that establishment knowing that proceeds from the purchases you made were financing hate?



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 39):
No, but when I become informed of such donations and I verify that it's not jut some Internet urban legend, I take action.

Heads up--he's going to probably talk about gas going to Middle East governments and Apple products going towards child labor  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4212 posts, RR: 37
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 month 5 hours ago) and read 2792 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 39):
No, but when I become informed of such donations and I verify that it's not jut some Internet urban legend, I take action. In turn, let me pose a question to you - let's say it hadn't been this set of hate groups. Let's say it was found Winshape donated money to a group that was a front for the KKK or a multitude of other racist hate groups and was unabashed about continuing donations. Are you saying that you wouldn't, without a second thought, continue to patronize that establishment knowing that proceeds from the purchases you made were financing hate?

I've worked for chick fil a in the past... they are a great company and treat ALL their employees with respect regardless of anything.

If it was as you supposed, I honestly still wouldn't care. I like their food- it is the only fast food that I eat.

Speaking of child labor, how's your research going on picking out your clothes?   I really hope you don't finance that.



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2739 posts, RR: 8
Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Thread starter):
Chick-fil-A has agreed to cease donations from its non-profit charity to anti-gay organizations and issued a company-wide internal mandate calling for the equal treatment of all employees and customers, the alderman said

No they did not...

Quoting tugger (Reply 27):
Does anyone here stay at Marriott? Because the owners there also "support traditional marriage" just as the Cathys do.

All the time. Just hit Gold status for this year..

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 25):
It must have worked, though. Or they wouldn't have changed their tune.

They did not change their tune

Quoting N1120A (Reply 35):
BTW, they didn't recant anything

Correct

Quote:
Chick fil-A has "made no … concessions" regarding its support of groups that oppose gay marriage, company CEO Dan Cathy said in a statement that was posted online by Mike Huckabee, denying a statement by a Chicago alderman that the company said it would reevaluate its policies in the face of a move by city officials to bar Chick-fil-A from opening a restaurant there
http://news.yahoo.com/chick-fil-ceo-...-200551778--abc-news-politics.html



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 43, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2644 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 27):
Does anyone here stay at Marriott? Because the owners there also "support traditional marriage" just as the Cathys do.

Tugg

Which is ironic considering what goes on in hotel rooms  


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
The Tea Party Isn't Anti-gay. posted Sun Oct 10 2010 20:59:16 by DocLightning
Anti-gay Lawmaker Get DUI After Leaving Gay Bar posted Thu Mar 4 2010 09:24:16 by RL757PVD
Anti-Gay Speaker Booed Off The Stage At Cpac posted Fri Feb 19 2010 21:03:45 by JCS17
The Pope And Another Anti Gay Remark posted Tue Dec 23 2008 09:59:07 by Sbworcs
Anti Gay Black List posted Fri Nov 14 2008 00:03:58 by Tsaord
Bush Surgeon General Nominee "Anti-Gay?" posted Wed Jun 6 2007 23:33:16 by Johnboy
'Grey's' Star's Anti-Gay Slurs 'Unacceptable' posted Fri Jan 19 2007 19:19:14 by Luv2fly
Anti-Gay Protesters Try To Ruin Memorial Day Obser posted Tue May 30 2006 01:12:15 by Mrmeangenes
Anti-Gay Drug Now Available! posted Thu Nov 17 2005 19:37:26 by Alberchico
Despicable - Anti-Gay Church Protests at GI Funerals posted Sun Aug 28 2005 09:42:42 by Cba