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Romney Releases 2011 Tax Returns  
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...-11e2-9132-f2750cd65f97_story.html

Reportedly (via twitter) being taxed about 14% of his income.

From his previous work, he paid the previous dues, and since he worked for years, he is pretty much living off the interest from his investments.

If he wasn't living off interest, he'd probably pay about 45% on taxes. But that's based off of how much he would make if he was still working as an investment banker.


It's all interest, stuff that was already taxed previously. According to my dad, who is an investment banker, Interest is automatically taxed based off of the rate of interest and the amount of money that was originally invested. Therefore, this is in reality a fair deal.

Democrats can sit down now.

[Edited 2012-09-21 11:04:00]

[Edited 2012-09-21 11:07:37]


我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

I'm not sitting down. Tax returns for 2011 only. Not the years where he most likely paid less.

And by the way, 14%? Ridiculous!


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8866 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 1):
And by the way, 14%? Ridiculous!

Why?

He earned $1000 way back when, and paid around $450 in taxes (Federal. State and Local)

The remaining $550, he invested and earned another $50, on which he pays another 14% in taxes.

Please explain why he should pay full income rates on that $50, when already nearly half his original earnings went to taxes.

Capital Gains taxes should not exist at all.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3568 times:

He already paid his taxes on his income, and now what he's paying is dividends from his investments. He already paid the 40-50% on taxes when he got the initial investments. That's all been taxed previously. This second income is dividends, already taxed money. The taxed money gets automatically removed from the paycheck. This IRS report only shows what gets re-taxed, such as property taxes, federal, state, local, school taxes, etc., taxes people pay normally that aren't necessarily based off income. If the government didn't tax the initial income before he received it, that 13 million would have been reported as 26 million. Simple.

Learn the basics of capital gains taxes before complaining (all this information I got from my dad who works for the banks and gets his income directly taxed by the government, but makes considerably less than Romney.)

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Capital Gains taxes should not exist at all.
   thank you. Welcome to my respected user's list.

[Edited 2012-09-21 11:16:44]

[Edited 2012-09-21 11:17:12]


我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):

How do we know how much he paid in taxes initially off the income? It may have been 0 or 45% or anywere in between.

Saying it "has already been taxed" once is ridiculous. Each new additional income is more income, regardless of where it came from, and it is the INTEREST, not the underlying asset that is being taxed.

He should pay higher taxes because people who simply OWN things and collect rent (or interest) off what they own do little to contribute to the growth of the economy and much of the income of the wealthy comes from what they OWN instead of what they DO.

Furthermore, it is a structural failure of capitalism that merely owning an asset generates wealth potentially forever...thats how lop sided societies in Latin America are perpetuated where a small owning class keeps everyone else in poverty. It is necessary to tax these asset owners so they either have to keep on working/contributing or have to sell what they own.

Owning physical or monetary assets in any event should not perpetuate wealth beyond the generation that earned it, which again is another reason for the tax.

Pu

[Edited 2012-09-21 11:27:02]

User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4673 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3546 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Please explain why he should pay full income rates on that $50, when already nearly half his original earnings went to taxes.

Capital Gains taxes should not exist at all

Because that is the way the tax code exists.
Are you suggesting we alter it further to have less revenue to pay for spending. Which by the way even the GOP can't figure out how to lower without getting yelled at.
Seems like a play right out of the George Bush Playbook



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3547 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Capital Gains taxes should not exist at all.

So you want him to pay 0% in taxes? Would that make him be part of the 47% that is voting for Obama?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3542 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 5):
Quoting mt99 (Reply 6):
Quoting pu (Reply 4):

All 3 of you do some research on what capital gains is.

I'll repeat myself: Romney's returns that HAVE ALREADY BEEN TAXED, which do not report on an IRS filing. It's money that never lands in the hands of Romney, pretty much.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7566 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3523 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
He already paid the 40-50% on taxes when he got the initial investments.

Can you prove it, if he had an integrity he'd release everything, the fact that he hasn't makes me and a lot of other people think he has something to hide.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4673 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3521 times:

[

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Please explain why he should pay full income rates on that $50, when already nearly half his original earnings went to taxes.

Because captial gains is about gains made for investing money in someone else's business, by which you expect a return on time and money. It is earnings. By the same token, if you lose money, guess what..... you claim a tax deduction.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Democrats can sit down now.

No. Responsible people are still paying attention and asking for more. But folks with small attention spans , and no attention to details can move on whistling in the wind and worry about birht certiffcates.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3072 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Here's another follow up from Yahoo.

http://news.yahoo.com/romneys-paid-1...axes-2011-181548066--election.html



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12742 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 1):
Tax returns for 2011 only.

I guess we should use the singular, then.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineclemsonaj From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

You know it's a bad week for Romney when he's drawing attention to his tax returns. Something that you haven't noticed is that he avoided taking all the available deductions for his charitable contributions. His effective tax rate should have been closer to 9% for 2011. Instead he chose to pay a little more this year to avoid the headache of trying to explain an effective 9% rate.

Also a pinky-swear from Romney's accountant doesn't amount to much confidence in those numbers.

Mitt's Blog


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8866 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

Quoting pu (Reply 4):
He should pay higher taxes because people who simply OWN things and collect rent (or interest) off what they own do little to contribute to the growth of the economy

And here we have an example of the ignorance that exists on the left. Investment capital is EVERYTHING. Investment capital is what every company requires to expand their business. You make those investments more expensive (like taxing them more), you will have have less of it - people will stash their money into gold bullion or cash, in which case I would agree - that does not do anything for the economy. A $10,000 gold brick sitting in your safe is essentially $10,000 taken out of the economy. Not so with $10,000 that you invest in stocks or bonds.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 5):
Because that is the way the tax code exists.

The way the tax code exists is that he pays 14%, not full income rates

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 8):
Can you prove it, if he had an integrity he'd release everything, the fact that he hasn't makes me and a lot of other people think he has something to hide.

That's not what you or anyone else asked for. You guys asked for 10 years. He's been retired for more than that, so the past 10 years would be more of the same investment income. But of course you knew that.

Nobody asked to see how much he paid in the 1990s; when his total tax rates (including local etc) would have been 50% or more. For the Dems that would be counterproductive.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 9):
Because captial gains is about gains made for investing money in someone else's business, by which you expect a return on time and money. It is earnings. By the same token, if you lose money, guess what..... you claim a tax deduction.

Small comfort. I'd rather not make the loss in the first place.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3475 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 7):
I'll repeat myself: Romney's returns that HAVE ALREADY BEEN TAXED, which do not report on an IRS filing. It's money that never lands in the hands of Romney, pretty much.

We get it dude, calm down, but i still think that "income is income" regardless of the source.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Capital Gains taxes should not exist at all.

Is this part of Mitt's proposal?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4673 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3470 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
The way the tax code exists is that he pays 14%, not full income rates

He paid a higher rate than he could have.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
mall comfort. I'd rather not make the loss in the first place.

So would everyone, but that is the tax code. Also , if you invest for less than a year and reap a big profit, then you pay full taxes as you should. You put your money out there to work for you , so it could work for someone else to make a profit in another company. The fact that long term gains is low, is due ot the fact that you are allowing your money to be tied u[p for longer and longer.
Capital gains exists and should exist, as it effectively a worker for the company you invest in.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1415 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3472 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Romney Releases Tax Returns

My question is WHY? He's waited until JUST after everybody's forgotten about it and is now resurrecting the story. This campaign is a shambles.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4673 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 16):
My question is WHY? He's waited until JUST after everybody's forgotten about it and is now resurrecting the story. This campaign is a shambles.

Umm he promised to relase 2011 when it was done.
The others are just going to be summary pages, and will not contain the actual returns.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 992 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3440 times:

Meh...2008-2009 please. Especially 2009...


Carpe Pices
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8329 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
It's all interest, stuff that was already taxed previously.



Or hidden in Swill Bank Accounts he had, or Bahama depots he had, or Caribbean accounts he had.

My bet is that the 14% rates or '10 and '11 are the highest he has had and he's only paying them because he wanted to un for President.

Ant that, IMO, is why he is keeping his previous tax returns well hidden. He doesn't want the political embarrassment of making tens of millions in a year and having zero taxes paid.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Democrats can sit down now.

Democrats don'e have a problem with people making money. Or reducing taxes. It was a Democrat (JFK) that cut the top tax rate from 90% (the rate the Republicans used) to 75%.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Capital Gains taxes should not exist at all.

Correct. It should be taxed at normal income rates. There is no justifiable reason for lower rates for capital gains. It just increases the national debt.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21488 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3407 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 16):
My question is WHY? He's waited until JUST after everybody's forgotten about it and is now resurrecting the story. This campaign is a shambles.

Sure it is, but his taxes have not just not been forgotten, they are automatically becoming front and center through his own cynical remarks that have come to light – if he still chickens out from releasing the same number of years as every other recent candidate after that, he's simply toast.

The irony is that his entire campaign was supposed to be about taxes first and foremost. In more than one way, that has come more true than he'd ever dreamed of.

He's not free to make many choices there any more. His problem is that actually releasing his older tax returns would apparently be so toxic that he'd rather lose the election than put them forward.

That in itself makes a statement of its own.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

Quoting pu (Reply 4):
Owning physical or monetary assets in any event should not perpetuate wealth beyond the generation that earned it, which again is another reason for the tax.

That philosophy is too abhorrent for words. When one owns something, be it physical, land, equity in a business, or financial instruments they own it outright and should be the sole entity to determine the fate of whatever it is they own. It isn't a rental for life, it's ownership. Whether you want to give it to your kids, charity, make it a trust, or anything else I don't care but it must be under the sole control of the person who owns it.

Quoting bhill (Reply 18):
Meh...2008-2009 please. Especially 2009...

You just want to blast him for writing off losses suffered in 2008. Just like everybody did.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
There is no justifiable reason for lower rates for capital gains. It just increases the national debt.

It didn't increase the national debt for the first seven decades of the capital gains tax.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3387 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Investment capital is EVERYTHING. Investment capital is what every company requires to expand their business.

No.
Banks create money out of thin air in the fractional reserve banking system. Its called making loans. Individual investors play a relatively SMALL role in financing corporate expansion. "Investing" in stocks or bonds does nothing to help the business expand unless you buy at the IPO, "investing" in the stock market is not investing at all in the economy or helping the underlying company...the stock market is booming, job growth is stagnent.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
ou make those investments more expensive (like taxing them more),

Hahahahahah......there is historically no correlation between capital gains tax rates and promoting GDP growth.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3837

...all reducing capital gains tax rates do is make the rich richer. They don't actually invest more of it and create more jobs when tax rates are lower. The big problem with some arachaic Republican thinking is that they are married to a DOCTRINE that looks good in books, instead of practical realities that actually work, as shown by:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/investing...ts-gdp-outperform-under-democrats/


Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
ou will have have less of it - people will stash their money into gold bullion or cash,

If the choice were invest in the stock market or hide your money under the mattress, I might agree with you, but in fact there are many more options than simply your crude udnerstanding of "investment capital" and investing in gold, for example, captial gains rates can be used to encourage "investing" that actually helps the economy (e.g. domestic investments in infrastructure, innovation and job-producing projects) instead of merely allowing any paper asset that does nothing except make the rich richer.

Pu


User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8969 posts, RR: 39
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3366 times:

Quoting pu (Reply 4):
thats how lop sided societies in Latin America are perpetuated where a small owning class keeps everyone else in poverty.

High inflation and hyperinflation keeps people in Latin America in poverty, not the "owners" of real assets. The owners of real assets in Latin America would much rather have a wealthier population to sell their goods to.

Large landowners would much rather sell their unproductive lands and invest the money in something that actually generates a return, like bonds, but it in a highly inflationary environment there is zero incentive to do this unless you want to lose everything.

[Edited 2012-09-21 12:54:18]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 2):
Capital Gains taxes should not exist at all.

Yes, revolutionary idea. Name one country that has done this, or implemented ''Republican'' economic plans and has succeeded. I can name about 10 off the top of the my head that did, and failed miserably.

I'll start: Ireland.

Your turn..

A country who's fiscally much more left than the US Democrats but is doing rather well:

Sweden.

But please, feed me historic precedence of the functionality of any of their propositions. I'm exicted..

Edit: More hilarity...

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Investment capital is EVERYTHING. Investment capital is what every company requires to expand their business. You make those investments more expensive (like taxing them more), you will have have less of it

You learn about investments in the first semester of your bachelor's degree in economics. About the macroeconomic impact of taxes on investment capital in either the first, or the semester. As I've finished both, and had to familiarize myself with all theories surrounding the capital gains tax, I can guarantee that you have no such education on the matter.

Furthermore, you conveniently leave out all the consequences, or as you would say CONSEQUENCES, that the absense of tax revenue derived from capital gains taxes has. But again, the economic institutions of this world will be thrilled to be proven wrong by you.

[Edited 2012-09-21 13:13:05]


..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
25 Revelation : I thought it was a bad week for him when he went to London and manged to piss off rich white folks, but this one tops that. When I first read this th
26 Post contains images PPVRA : You, sir, have no concept of how fractional reserve banking and the money multiplier works. Buying newly-issued bond is a direct loan to the business
27 zckls04 : Yes, I'm questioning the timing, not releasing the returns. He effectively had no choice to release something, though the law doesn't require it. Exa
28 jakeorion : The country is falling into chaos and yet all we have to focus on is Romney' Tax Returns? I love people's priorities.
29 PPVRA : Huh? Explain.
30 D L X : because he earned $50. I'm not sure why that's hard...
31 PSA53 : Great point.Meanwhile,Obama is allowed to hide his failures and continued blame game.
32 PPVRA : It already is. It's called corporate taxes. To take on debt is a decision, not an effect.
33 Revelation : The GOP spent a lot of time and energy in the pre-9/11 chaos having an inquest into a blow job. It seems they might have wanted to spend their time l
34 Flighty : This was all wage income. These investment toilet bank asses should pay the full marginal rate on their wage income. Sure, I could set up a money lau
35 AirframeAS : Oh, wah! Cry me a river. The last time I checked, 14% paid taxes is sure a hell of a lot better than paying 0%!
36 Post contains links mt99 : "According to an announcement by the campaign Friday, the Romneys could have had a lower tax rate than 14.1% in 2011 if they had claimed more of thei
37 pu : I finished an MBA from L S E and before retiring I helped run the commercial lending department of the largest bank in Sweden. Your credentials? . I
38 BMI727 : That's really not a good argument. Money that leaves a company as wages is taxed at the corporate level too. There's no huge ideological reason why c
39 PPVRA : Great. So you also know that without savings, there is no banking system, right? There must ALWAYS be somebody behind that investment, whether it is
40 EA CO AS : Interesting that Harry Reid is now saying Romney "manipulated" his taxes, conveniently ignoring the fact he's been publicly saying Romney hasn't paid
41 PPVRA : Corporate taxes affect only profits. Since to arrive at profit you need to exclude all expenses, which includes wages, it means companies don't pay c
42 ltbewr : I pay about net 10% in Fed income taxes on a gross income of just over $50K after deductions for State income taxes and deductions for health care inc
43 PPVRA : How many companies do you own and how much tax do these companies pay? All this really means is that tax laws are way too complex to have a reasonabl
44 pu : Exactly, there is no new investment. Therefore no one should get taxed at a lower rate on income gained from investing in the stock market, which alo
45 flymia : Just an interesting thought when you add the taxes and the amount he gave to charity Mitt "gave away" 38.5% of his income since 1990. That's a lot of
46 PPVRA : But it's supporting the old investment, which otherwise you would have to yank out of the company which in turn could cause all sorts of problem, inc
47 qantas077 : which he undoubtedly claims back when he submits his tax returns...its a favorite of the rich!
48 Post contains images AirframeAS : What's your point? He paid his tax.
49 pu : Yes, something has to be done with the money. But it should only get a tax incentive (lower tax rate) if how they "invested" the money demonstrativel
50 mt99 : Point is, that he CHOSE to pay more in taxes. He could have legally paid less than 14%. But he choose not too. You dont find that interesting?
51 seb146 : How many thousands of jobs did Romney create from that low, low tax rate of 14%? And I mean real jobs for real Americans. Not for investment bankers i
52 Venus6971 : Tax returns don't matter, what does matter is that he makes more money than you and that pisses some people off. It doesn't matter that he gave over 4
53 Dreadnought : By which you are implying that he really does not give anything. Get off it. Even if he did the credit is only a tiny fraction of what he gave. You m
54 Post contains images tugger : I firmly disagree. All earnings should be taxed and no one should be exempt. Great, what about Republican's that want and expect their candidate to r
55 BMI727 : Good catch, but still, capital gains are income and could be taxed in some way. Just don't let anyone fool you into thinking that's why the debts exp
56 Post contains images AirframeAS : Ok, so? Seems like nothing will ever satisfy you, not even getting a raise and a promotion on your birthday.
57 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Well, not sure where I stand on capital gains (valid arguments on each side) it's quite easy to see that mt99 is upset that the rich/Romney have a lo
58 seb146 : The entire narrative of the right-wing is: give the rich all the tax breaks they want and they will create jobs. One would know that if they follow a
59 tugger : To me the point is that it is stupid! Why would you pay more taxes than you have to? I mean really, I support that tax rate need to return to where t
60 BMI727 : Actually it should be that the rich are going to go where they'll make the most money and it's in America's best interests to become that place. But
61 tugger : It's still dumb, and still just pandering. I mean if he wants to really be patriotic he should announce that he believes the nation must cut spending
62 scbriml : Seriously? We have a winner!
63 Pyrex : Not to mention that $50 already gets taxed at the corporate level, at the highest corporate tax rate in the world, so what gets to him is a small per
64 AirframeAS : The point I was making is that Romney paid SOMETHING instead of nothing. But no, you all would still disagree with me when it's actually a fact.
65 flymia : This conversation is nuts! He pays more taxes than he could have he is just pandering and being an idiot. He pays a low tax rate it's unfair and he is
66 mt99 : It has happened before.. and ill admit it was nice.. True that! Which is idiotic. He is openly pulling the wool over your eyes by not claiming all th
67 seb146 : You mean that people can not afford to hire an accountant because they work low-wage jobs when their good paying job was axed? Those problems of the
68 BMI727 : I agree. But it's his money and what he does with it is his business. A little math never killed anyone. The inability to understand loss carried for
69 Ken777 : Unfortunately you do have to face taxes - you don't live in this country for free. Don't like that? Then move somewhere that won't tax you. I think a
70 Aesma : Gold might go up or it might go down, not a great idea. It can also be taxed (in fact here it's more taxed than investments). Cash, well, it will alw
71 BMI727 : There are bills that have to be paid. Pu seemed to be advocating a 100% inheritance tax, which as I said, is too abhorrent for words. That would be a
72 Pyrex : You do realize that little flag next to his name means no such place exists, right? You do know that the U.S. is the only country in the world, along
73 seb146 : But, many of us don't have the luxury of deducting what we give to charity or "loss carried forward" because we are not business owners or millionare
74 Ken777 : I'm far from a believer in the 100% inheritance tax, but I do support some level of taxing over a decent amount. The starting point should be around
75 BMI727 : You don't mean to say that only millionaires donate to charity, because that is very much not true. Please cite which of the roughly 72,000 pages in
76 Post contains images PHX787 : Exactly my argument. When your taxes are based off of a certain amount of money, you shouldn't need to be taxed over that percentage. But since Romne
77 BMI727 : The argument is that welfare puts money in the hands of people as well. The simple truth is that we live in a globalized economy and there is more ch
78 Pyrex : No, it is about punishing responsible behavior. You earn $1 million in life and then spend it all on hookers and blow? Congrats, you managed to use y
79 Dreadnought : No, because welfare takes money from one person (assuming a balanced budget) and gives it to someone else - net economic impact is zero, minus the na
80 something : In a world where 1+1 = 4, maybe.
81 Dreadnought : Explain.
82 Ken777 : All you need to do is look at Romney, making tens of millions a year and paying 13%, shifting money to Swill Accounts, the Bahamas and the Caribbean.
83 BMI727 : It is. Which is why you can't say that welfare takes money out of people's hands, which except for bureaucratic costs, doesn't really happen. It just
84 D L X : Nice analysis. If you take money from a cost center that doesn't need it, and you put it in a cost center that _does_ need it, that's called smart bu
85 seb146 : Raising taxes. Go back and look. So, killing people in other countries and taking away from our education system somehow makes our lives better?
86 Dreadnought : I'm sure Romney's family will be OK, but if you want to get into the estate tax argument, high estate taxes cause families to lose the deceased's far
87 Dreadnought : You are assuming that the money would otherwise be stuffed under the mattress. It won't be. It will be invested or lent to people who need it.
88 DeltaMD90 : Millionaires aside, what about the majority of Americans? I find the inheritance tax pretty BS honestly
89 BMI727 : No sense calling it a miniaturized earth moving tool operable with one hand when everyone knows it's a spade. You don't need to actually kill people
90 pu : This is straight out of a freshman economics book. Circa 1952. Although you are clearly more experienced than the students here explaining to us what
91 seb146 : Here's the problem: People like Mitt Romney moved their factories overseas because people here wanted to be able to pay for rent and to get to work a
92 Post contains links BMI727 : You have one guy willing to do a job for $10 and another willing to do the same job for $5, which do you choose? Simply repeating that Romney and oth
93 PHX787 : Check your argument there BMI, Welfare goes to people who are usually not supposed to be using money anyway because they use it improperly. We need t
94 BMI727 : I'm not going to say that there is a proper or improper use for money that is in private hands. I obviously think it's better to have it in the priva
95 windy95 : And that is not including state and local taxes like Property taxes, So it is even more.... The funny thing is that the Democrats have a large hand i
96 something : And I can call you Butterface, but neither is a cogent argument against the principle. Find me any empirical study that would suggest, or better yet
97 mt99 : You assume that business would keep the money in country and not move it to The Bahamas... Ask Mitt Romeny how he does it..
98 seb146 : So, it is our fault: the American worker. Not the guy at the top who is blaming us and taking our money and jobs overseas. Not the guy who raids all
99 Pyrex : Damn, the xenophobia from the left never ceases to amaze me... they seem to believe there should be no borders whatsoever and allow every illegal imm
100 mt99 : No, in fact.. we have been calling for you to leave the US for a while now.. you can "circulate" yourself back to wherever you are from anytime reall
101 BMI727 : It's just economics. American workers aren't the only game in town anymore and you can't blame other workers around the world for wanting what Americ
102 pu : Soros sells a billion eurodollars in Paris and buys them in Sydney, simultaneously. He collects a profit of 5 million dollars. GDP not increased. No
103 Post contains images Ken777 : Or when he decides to bring it back from overseas shelters. Inheritance taxes are delayed taxes when you get right down to it. We see that in other a
104 BMI727 : Except that the money and assets have already been taxed. It's an exceptionally poor one. And such funds would be subject to capital gains or income
105 Post contains images Ken777 : Or when he decides to bring it back from overseas shelters. Actually, when he dies the government might actually get a look at all the wealth that di
106 seb146 : Built by China. Components built by China. Are you kidding me?? There are plenty of people who would give their eye-teeth for a good paying forklift
107 AirframeAS : I agree 100%. I don't understand why items that were taxed before need to be taxed again. It makes no sense. The inheritance tax sounds more like a "
108 BMI727 : I'd be curious to know which parts of the helicopters are made in China and which Chinese people are contracted to maintain them. (There are parts th
109 seb146 : There are stragglers in many countries. That does not give us liscence to invade everyone nor does it mean we should spend trillions every year to ke
110 BMI727 : Reducing overseas combat operations will save money. And defense needs to remain well funded to ensure...uh, defense. Not at all hard to understand.
111 AirframeAS : A union job will never give you everything. There is no such thing as a "great union job" anymore, unfortunately.
112 Pyrex : Ah, another example of the tolerant left... since I am in the U.S. legally, like the country (and what it truly means) more than you ever will and pa
113 NZ1 : Due the way this thread has gone well off topic and the amount of posts removed due to the inflammatory nature of the content, it will now be locked.
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