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18 To Play Lottery, But 21 To Play Slots?  
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5813 times:

DISCLAIMER:
Before you all go running to my profile to figure out how old I am, I will tell you right now that I am 17. The world would be an amazing place if everyone could respect other people's opinions, regardless of age. Some other things:

Do NOT try to tell me that I'm "just too young to get it," or that "you'll understand when you're older."
Do NOT try to convince me how bad you think gambling is, or how dangerous it can be.
Do NOT ask me something like "why do you even care?" If I asked the question, then yes, I do care.
If you can't post here without taking off your "he's just a dumb teenager" goggles, then don't do it.

---

Now that we've covered that, we'll get to the actual topic of the thread:

Why do you have to be 18 to play state lottery, but 21 to play slots or table games?

   Huh? Aren't they both gambling? How is guessing numbers or scratching numbers off a card any different from pulling a handle on a machine?

I'll be turning 18 in about 6 months so obviously I'll be looking forward to being able to do "a lot of things" after that date. But that's no solution to all of the dumb "21 and over" laws.

For establishments that serve alcohol (i.e, casinos) the best explanation that I could come up with is so the waiters/bartenders don't have to "card" for each drink.

So what's the reason?

Before you respond, I'll repeat my disclaimer one last time:

Do NOT try to tell me that I'm "just too young to get it," or that "you'll understand when you're older."
Do NOT try to convince me how bad you think gambling is, or how dangerous it can be.
Do NOT ask me something like "why do you even care?" If I asked the question, then yes, I do care.
If you can't post here without taking off your "he's just a dumb teenager" goggles, then don't do it.

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11573 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5811 times:

I don't understand, either. I am 41 and have wondered, since I was 17, why the drinking age is 21 but the age to buy a gun, serve in the military, and vote is 18, but the age to drink is 21. I think Canada has the right idea and have everything be 19. Gambling, drinking, driving, military service, voting.... everything should be 19. Just my opinion.


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinePacNWJet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 976 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5803 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Why do you have to be 18 to play state lottery, but 21 to play slots or table games?

Most casinos also have a liquor license and therefore serve alcohol on the premises. Virtually all states in the United States limit entry to venues with a liquor license to patrons 21 years of age and older (different rules apply to restaurants that also happen to serve alcohol). On the other hand, lottery tickets are often sold at retail establishments and therefore are not age-restricted to the drinking age of 21. People who have reached the majority age of 18 can purchase a lottery ticket at a retail establishment but are not permitted to enter casinos that serve alcohol and therefore can only admit people over 21.


User currently offlinePacNWJet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 976 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days ago) and read 5802 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
I don't understand, either. I am 41 and have wondered, since I was 17, why the drinking age is 21 but the age to buy a gun, serve in the military, and vote is 18, but the age to drink is 21

It's a safety issue. The bottom line is that lawmakers want to minimize dangers such as drunk driving by maintaining the drinking age at 21. Why 21? Quite frankly, lawmakers would make the age limit even higher if they could get away with it but have settled on 21 because that is what the age of majority used to be in the United States before it was lowered to 18 by the 26th Amendment to the United States Constitution which was ratified in 1971.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11573 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days ago) and read 5800 times:

Quoting PacNWJet (Reply 3):
lawmakers want to minimize dangers such as drunk driving by maintaining the drinking age at 21.

Plenty of alcoholics are under 21.

If everything were 19, it would be much easier. Gambling, alcohol, tobacco, pot, voting, driving....



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days ago) and read 5794 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):
Why do you have to be 18 to play state lottery, but 21 to play slots or table games?

For the record, that's not true in all states. Arizona being one of them where you have to be 21 to play the lottery.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days ago) and read 5788 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
I don't understand, either. I am 41 and have wondered, since I was 17, why the drinking age is 21 but the age to buy a gun, serve in the military, and vote is 18, but the age to drink is 21. I think Canada has the right idea and have everything be 19. Gambling, drinking, driving, military service, voting.... everything should be 19. Just my opinion.
Quoting seb146 (Reply 4):
If everything were 19, it would be much easier. Gambling, alcohol, tobacco, pot, voting, driving....

   seb146, I could not agree with you more. It doesn't make any sense!

Quoting PacNWJet (Reply 2):

Interesting to know.

Quoting PacNWJet (Reply 3):
It's a safety issue. The bottom line is that lawmakers want to minimize dangers such as drunk driving by maintaining the drinking age at 21. Why 21? Quite frankly, lawmakers would make the age limit even higher if they could get away with it

Surely the dingbats over at MADD have got something to do with it, too...

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 5):
For the record, that's not true in all states. Arizona being one of them where you have to be 21 to play the lottery.

I appreciate your clarification. Do you happen to know how many others there are?


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7867 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 days ago) and read 5785 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):

You're just too young. You'll understand when you get older  

No but seriously, I think it has to do with the laws coming into affect at different times. They came up with law X and set the age as 21, then law Y came along and they set it at 18, law Z for 18, etc. I think it just boils down to bureaucracy and never will make sense



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1551 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5763 times:

I happen to think it's stupid. At 18, you're old enough to give life and limb for your country (I'm assuming like me, you're American going by the flag next to your username), but not to have a beer or sit down at the slots/tables in a casino, or rent a car, or in some cases...get a hotel room.

Marc


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19505 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5735 times:

Nope. Makes no sense. Nor do a lot of US laws governing personal behavior.

User currently offlineA320ajm From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5714 times:

In the UK, you can play the lottery aged 16 but have to be 18 to gamble in a casino or play on slots etc. So the age discrepancy isn't just limited to the US. It is very odd. Only thing I can think of is it something to do with listening laws on alcohol (18 in the UK, 21 in the US is it?) and most casinos here have a bar.

A320ajm



If the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

There are 30,40,50,60,70 year old gamblers and alcoholics too, when you're an adult you're an adult and whether or not you are responsible with it is none of my concern. That's the whole thing which pertain to personal responsibility, it is an individual choice to do with it what you will, but if you fuck it up that's not my issue. This applies to drinking,smoking,gambling and any other vice you care to name....

User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

Some states do allow those 18-21 to play in casinos, in card rooms, play Bingo as well as bet on horse and dog racing. You will find that the tribal casinos are the ones more likely to allow 18-21 patrons since many of them do not serve alcohol or do not comp them like at other casinos. While they can do this because of tribal sovereignty, some do have theirs set at 21 as part of the compact with the state the casino is in.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 5):
For the record, that's not true in all states. Arizona being one of them where you have to be 21 to play the lottery.

Louisiana (21)
Iowa (21)
Nebraska (19)


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5632 times:

There is ample evidence, overwhelming actually, that lowering the drinking age to 19 raises drunk driving deaths exponentially. It is irrefutable. If 19 year olds were sitting at home getting drunk, nobody would care. They don't. They kill innocent people, and lots of them.

If a 17 year old cannot grasp that, then it is just a matter of time until maturity gives him the understanding of how that affects society at large.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19505 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):

There is ample evidence, overwhelming actually, that lowering the drinking age to 19 raises drunk driving deaths exponentially.

That evidence does exist in the U.S. Yet in most other countries, the drinking age is 18 or 19 (including canada) and this has not occurred. My guess is that if were lowered and it stayed lowered, there would be a bump and then it would settle down.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5616 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
That evidence does exist in the U.S. Yet in most other countries, the drinking age is 18 or 19 (including canada) and this has not occurred.

Not quite so. In Canada.....

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/tp-tp2436-rs200809-menu-397.htm

For 16- to 19-year-old drivers, the average annual number who drank alcohol and then were involved in a fatal crash decreased by almost 15% between 1996-2001 and 2003-2005. This improvement may in part have been the result of the zero blood alcohol concentration restrictions inherent to graduated driver licencing programs for novice drivers. In spite of this restriction, the crash involvement of this age group was still out of proportion to the number of licensed drivers.

....

Drinking drivers aged 20-24 years contribute significantly to the impaired driving problem. During 2003-2005, this age group accounted for more than 20% of drinking drivers who got into a fatal crash, yet they made up only 8% of licensed drivers.


in a nutshell,

16-19 year olds account for 4.8% of drivers and 10.7% of drinking driver fatalities.
20-24 year olds account for 8.1% of drivers and 21.6% of drinking driver fatalities.

The numbers even out from there and quickly trend the opposite with age.


User currently offlinevarigb707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5596 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Thread starter):

Why do you have to be 18 to play state lottery, but 21 to play slots or table games?

Go figure that one out...
16 to get a drivers license...
18 to purchase a gun...
21 to drink...


User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5582 times:

Come to Alberta once you hit 18. You will be legal to drink and gamble all you want.
We are a little different to the rest of the country here are some of the differences
Drink AB & QC- 18, rest of Canada- 19
Drive AB- 14 (learners), rest of Canada- 16
Gamble AB & QC- 18, rest of Canada- 19
Smoke AB- 18, varies in the rest of Canada 18/19
Vote in all of Canada is 18
Join the military at 17 with parental consent

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6591 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5569 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 15):
16-19 year olds account for 4.8% of drivers and 10.7% of drinking driver fatalities.
20-24 year olds account for 8.1% of drivers and 21.6% of drinking driver fatalities.

Except that sober young drivers also crash and die much more often than the average.

About the OP question, I think the main reason is alcohol laws in the US, but I could also see how the lottery is in fact not the same kind of gambling as a slot machine. Now if we talk about scratching cards it's more comparable and some people do spend all their money buying those. Also I don't know if you have this but here there is a game called Rapido, basically a lottery every 2 minutes, very addictive since you often win (but not much) and often lose for only one wrong number, making you think you almost won. Very lucrative for the government.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3605 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5547 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 18):
Except that sober young drivers also crash and die much more often than the average.

True, there has even been talk of restricting driving age limits even more, but how is that an argument for letting them drink younger?


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19505 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5537 times:

I am aware of the evidence that 18yo's are not as responsible as, say, 30yo's.

That said, if at age 18, you are allowed to enter into legal contracts, smoke tobacco, marry, have sex, watch an adult movie, drive a car, and vote, then it makes no sense why there should be a restriction on drinking.

These are adults. All adults should get the same legal treatment under the law. We have the 2nd amendment in spite of ample and irrefutable evidence that gun-related crime is lower when guns are illegal. Similarly, there are some "bad ideas" that might just have to be accepted.

Yes, young people do silly things. I know that. Heck, most of them know that! But from a logic and civil liberties perspective, I don't see how we can justify the discrepancy.


User currently offlineStabilator From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

Move to Minnesota and you won't need to worry about it. 18 to play slots and table games, as well as things like horse racing.


So we beat on against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5523 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
I think Canada has the right idea and have everything be 19.

Depends on the province.

Quoting PacNWJet (Reply 2):
Most casinos also have a liquor license and therefore serve alcohol on the premises. Virtually all states in the United States limit entry to venues with a liquor license to patrons 21 years of age and older

That's what immediately jumped to my mind when I read the OP.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 15):

None of this suggests in exponential increase in fatal accidents given a decrease in the legal drinking age.  
Quoting mham001 (Reply 19):
there has even been talk of restricting driving age limits even more, but how is that an argument for letting them drink younger?


It's not an argument for letting them drink younger, but rather that the point regarding driving isn't a good argument against lowering the age. Of course that will always be based on opinion more than anything.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6591 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5499 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 19):
True, there has even been talk of restricting driving age limits even more, but how is that an argument for letting them drink younger?

I just refuted your argument, didn't make one.

My argument would be to lower the drinking age limit below that of the driving limit, that way teens do know their own limits before being allowed to drive.

Aside from that enforcement of drinking and driving laws is the key, alongside good prevention.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7867 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5495 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 23):
My argument would be to lower the drinking age limit below that of the driving limit, that way teens do know their own limits before being allowed to drive.

I've only been to cities in Europe and not the countryside, so correct me if I'm wrong. Even in most cities in America, it is very hard to get around without cars. Outside of the cities, it's almost impossible. Not trying to start a mass-transit argument, but being able to stumble out of a bar, onto a subway or bus, and then back home is a definite plus.

Also, I'm not sure why and it might be just a flawed perspective, it seems American teens are just dumber with alcohol or European teens are more responsible. I could be wrong...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6591 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5527 times:

In the countryside the youth drive mopeds with a 50Km/h limiter. Also alcohol will be consumed even before reaching the drinking age limit, at the family table. In fact in France there is no drinking age limit, only a buying alcohol limit.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7867 posts, RR: 52
Reply 26, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5524 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 25):
In fact in France there is no drinking age limit, only a buying alcohol limit.

I'm pretty sure (at least in Georgia, US) that minors may drink in the presence of their guardians. Wine isn't as popular over here though and I think most people see a big difference in serving their kids wine and serving their kids beer or hard liquor  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5535 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
You're just too young. You'll understand when you get older

  You must've missed my disclaimer!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
I think it just boils down to bureaucracy and never will make sense
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9):
Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 8):
I happen to think it's stupid. At 18, you're old enough to give life and limb for your country (I'm assuming like me, you're American going by the flag next to your username), but not to have a beer or sit down at the slots/tables in a casino, or rent a car, or in some cases...get a hotel room.

I couldn't agree more.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 8):
(I'm assuming like me, you're American going by the flag next to your username)

That's right.

Quoting A320ajm (Reply 10):
21 in the US is it?

You are correct there, as well.  
Quoting srbmod (Reply 12):
You will find that the tribal casinos are the ones more likely to allow 18-21 patrons since many of them do not serve alcohol or do not comp them like at other casinos.

God to know. I have heard of this before.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 12):
While they can do this because of tribal sovereignty, some do have theirs set at 21 as part of the compact with the state the casino is in.

   That is the case in Oregon, where I live.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 12):
Louisiana (21)
Iowa (21)
Nebraska (19)

Cool, thanks for the info and for stopping by, srbmod!  
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
My guess is that if were lowered and it stayed lowered, there would be a bump and then it would settle down.

I think that's a reasonable theory.

Quoting varigb707 (Reply 16):
Go figure that one out...
16 to get a drivers license...
18 to purchase a gun...
21 to drink...

Exactly, it doesn't make any sense!

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 17):
Come to Alberta once you hit 18. You will be legal to drink and gamble all you want.

I would love to! 
Quoting Aesma (Reply 18):
About the OP question, I think the main reason is alcohol laws in the US

I would say that's the best explanation I've read so far.
However, you would think that there would be obvious exceptions (places that don't serve alcohol), for example airports like RNO and LAS. No alcohol at all in the gaming areas but you still have to be 21 to play. Huh?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 18):
but I could also see how the lottery is in fact not the same kind of gambling as a slot machine. Now if we talk about scratching cards it's more comparable and some people do spend all their money buying those.

But it's still all playing games for money...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 20):
That said, if at age 18, you are allowed to enter into legal contracts, smoke tobacco, marry, have sex, watch an adult movie, drive a car, and vote, then it makes no sense why there should be a restriction on drinking.

These are adults. All adults should get the same legal treatment under the law.

  

Quoting Stabilator (Reply 21):
Move to Minnesota and you won't need to worry about it. 18 to play slots and table games, as well as things like horse racing.

Also good to know!  
Quoting Aesma (Reply 23):
My argument would be to lower the drinking age limit below that of the driving limit, that way teens do know their own limits before being allowed to drive.

I think that would be a great idea. Let the "excitement" of being able to drink wear off before putting them behind a wheel.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7867 posts, RR: 52
Reply 28, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

Something to throw out there, drinking age is actually a state issue. It just so happens that all states have it at 21.

The reason why, I am not 100% sure, but I *heard* it had to do with the federal government threatening to withhold some kind of grant money or funding to states that didn't raise the drinking age to 21



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19505 posts, RR: 58
Reply 29, posted (1 year 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5502 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 28):
Something to throw out there, drinking age is actually a state issue. It just so happens that all states have it at 21.

The reason why, I am not 100% sure, but I *heard* it had to do with the federal government threatening to withhold some kind of grant money or funding to states that didn't raise the drinking age to 21

Highway funds. Any state is quite free to reduce the drinking age to 18. Or 6, for that matter. But they lose their highway funds.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 30, posted (1 year 11 months 16 hours ago) and read 5465 times:

I think as for the lottery the fact that the lottery is state controlled, it is quite unlikely that there is cheating involved (even though in all gambling, the only one who wins in the long run is the bank). Also there is only one draw once a week.

As for slot machines, over here it has been discovered that especially the new computer controlled machines are often manipulated by the owners. While as per law the machines over here have to return statistically a certain quota of the money put in (IIRC around 60%) as wins and while the machines presented by the manufacturers as samples are working as per the law, testers have found that often the machines installed e.g. in pubs return far less, thus improving the profit of the owners (mostly not the pub owners. The owners of the machine just rent the space where they place the slot machine). The old "one armed bandits" with their mechanical systems or the early hardwired electrical and electronic machines couldn´t be manipulated by the owners as easily, since it would have been noticed during government inspections, but the new software controlled machines are often connected to the internet and the software can be changed or modified very fast and without leaving traces (which inspector can go through thousands of lines of machine code).

Then, because you can feed them as fast as you like (unlike the weekly draw with the lottery), the slot machines and casinos have a much higher potential for a gambling addiction.

BTW, gambling is one of the few sins I don´t participate in. I rather waste my money on books, technical stuff, musical instruments and my girlfriend.

Jan


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19505 posts, RR: 58
Reply 31, posted (1 year 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
BTW, gambling is one of the few sins I don´t participate in. I rather waste my money on books, technical stuff, musical instruments and my girlfriend.

Never appealed to me, either. Tried it a few times, lost a bunch of money very quickly, failed to see the appeal to losing a bunch of money very quickly.

Oddly, I did come across some slots that were VERY obviously rigged, but not like how you would imagine. I'm pretty sure that at one casino, the nickel (5-cent) machines were rigged to make you WIN. I started off with $1, finished up with $25. It was bizzarre! I couldn't stop winning! I had this huge tub of nickles!

I'm pretty sure that the angle there was to goad you into playing higher-value machines, which would presumably be much less generous.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 32, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 5423 times:

Yes, with the state lottery (at least how it works here) it is almost impossible to spend all your money on lottery tickets and to lose you home, especially because the lady at the ticket counter will stop you, also because there is no direct action-reward feedback, like on the slot machines or in the casino.
But there exists a problem with people spending their whole wages on slot machines. A young former neighbour, even though he had a reasonably earning job as a roofer, was constantly broke and even had the electricity company send a bailiff and an electrician to cut off his electricity (I know this because the switchboard with the main fuses and the meters is located in the barn, which I use as a workshop and I had to give them access). He was always spending his pay on slot machines.

Jan

[Edited 2012-09-24 13:25:59]

User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 33, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 5424 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 27):
However, you would think that there would be obvious exceptions (places that don't serve alcohol), for example airports like RNO and LAS. No alcohol at all in the gaming areas but you still have to be 21 to play. Huh?

Well I'm sure you'll notice that there is only one state that allows that...but keep in mind there are some very reasonable economic reasons for it.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 27):
Quoting Aesma (Reply 18):
but I could also see how the lottery is in fact not the same kind of gambling as a slot machine. Now if we talk about scratching cards it's more comparable and some people do spend all their money buying those.

But it's still all playing games for money...

Except that when you buy a scratchcard, you aren't in a building pumped with oxygen and girls serving you adult beverages.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
Any state is quite free to reduce the drinking age to 18. Or 6, for that matter. But they lose their highway funds.

So the federal government gives the state the right to legislate the drinking age, but threatens funds if they don't agree with it? Sounds a little shady to me...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 31):
Oddly, I did come across some slots that were VERY obviously rigged, but not like how you would imagine. I'm pretty sure that at one casino, the nickel (5-cent) machines were rigged to make you WIN. I started off with $1, finished up with $25. It was bizzarre! I couldn't stop winning! I had this huge tub of nickles!

That's how they make suckers out of people. What happened to you would turn a person with weaker will-power than yourself into an addict, unfortunately.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19505 posts, RR: 58
Reply 34, posted (1 year 11 months 9 hours ago) and read 5411 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 33):
So the federal government gives the state the right to legislate the drinking age, but threatens funds if they don't agree with it? Sounds a little shady to me...

Oh, it's very common and applies to a lot of things that have nothing to do with driving.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 33):
That's how they make suckers out of people. What happened to you would turn a person with weaker will-power than yourself into an addict, unfortunately.

Addiction is a property inherent to an individual. I'm pretty sure that if I were more foolish, I wouldn't have been an addict, but I would have been a lot poorer!


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5592 posts, RR: 6
Reply 35, posted (1 year 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 5380 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 33):

So the federal government gives the state the right to legislate the drinking age, but threatens funds if they don't agree with it? Sounds a little shady to me...

Other way around: states have an inherent right (barring a constitutional amendment) to legislate their own drinking ages. They do not have a right to said federal funds.

I don't like it either, but it's legit policy.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6591 posts, RR: 9
Reply 36, posted (1 year 11 months 6 hours ago) and read 5376 times:

The GOP should get crazy over such abuse of power, but of course since it's to curb a sin it's OK.


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User currently offlineaa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 37, posted (1 year 11 months 5 hours ago) and read 5367 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
There is ample evidence, overwhelming actually, that lowering the drinking age to 19 raises drunk driving deaths exponentially. It is irrefutable. If 19 year olds were sitting at home getting drunk, nobody would care. They don't. They kill innocent people, and lots of them.

Of course, all of this evidence is at least fifteen years old. Age 21 laws also coincided with much more aggressive enforcement of DUI laws and, I guess, more societal disapproval of drinking and driving. So there may be statistics, but they certainly aren't irrefutable.

Of course, alcohol is freely available to underage kids, either by bars or stores that don't card, a fake ID (which only cost $100 to $150) or an older friend. I think it's much safer for younger drinkers to be doing so in bars rather than house parties and dorm rooms, where everyone's judgement is clouded. Of course, no one should drive drunk.


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (1 year 11 months 3 hours ago) and read 5353 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
Highway funds. Any state is quite free to reduce the drinking age to 18. Or 6, for that matter. But they lose their highway funds.

DocLightning has it correct.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
As for slot machines, over here it has been discovered that especially the new computer controlled machines are often manipulated by the owners.

Interesting to know.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
Then, because you can feed them as fast as you like (unlike the weekly draw with the lottery), the slot machines and casinos have a much higher potential for a gambling addiction.

Perhaps, but gambling is gambling. And who says that all 21 year olds have better judgement than 18 year olds?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 31):
Oddly, I did come across some slots that were VERY obviously rigged, but not like how you would imagine. I'm pretty sure that at one casino, the nickel (5-cent) machines were rigged to make you WIN. I started off with $1, finished up with $25. It was bizzarre! I couldn't stop winning! I had this huge tub of nickles!

That is pretty weird!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 31):
I'm pretty sure that the angle there was to goad you into playing higher-value machines, which would presumably be much less generous.

That would not surprise me. Of course, the LAST thing casinos want you to do is "stop while you're ahead..."

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 33):
Well I'm sure you'll notice that there is only one state that allows that

What do you mean, exactly?

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 33):
Except that when you buy a scratchcard, you aren't in a building pumped with oxygen

I thought that wasn't allowed?

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 33):
So the federal government gives the state the right to legislate the drinking age, but threatens funds if they don't agree with it? Sounds a little shady to me...

Very shady indeed.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 35):
I don't like it either, but it's legit policy.

How is that legitimate?

Quoting aa757first (Reply 37):
Of course, all of this evidence is at least fifteen years old.

That wouldn't surprise me.

Quoting aa757first (Reply 37):
I think it's much safer for younger drinkers to be doing so in bars rather than house parties and dorm rooms, where everyone's judgement is clouded.

Exactly, which is another reason why the drinking age should be lowered. Teens should be drinking "legally" in public places instead of "illegally" in dorms, etc.

Quoting aa757first (Reply 37):
Of course, no one should drive drunk.

  


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 39, posted (1 year 11 months 2 hours ago) and read 5348 times:

Quoting aa757first (Reply 37):
a fake ID (which only cost $100 to $150) or an older friend

I can get one made for only CAD$50 up here. But when I was a teen I always went for the latter.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 38):
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 33):
Well I'm sure you'll notice that there is only one state that allows that

What do you mean, exactly?

If more than one state allowed it, it would take away from the draw they have on a very sspecific portion of the tourist population, thus eliminating the economic benefit of having that law in place.

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 38):
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 33):
Except that when you buy a scratchcard, you aren't in a building pumped with oxygen

I thought that wasn't allowed?

I'm fairly certain it's allowed in Vegas...but I'm sure it's highly dependent on local regulations. I live just down the highway from two casinos that I'm fairly certain do it.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3654 posts, RR: 5
Reply 40, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5341 times:
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Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 39):
Quoting AlnessW (Reply 38):
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 33):
Except that when you buy a scratchcard, you aren't in a building pumped with oxygen

I thought that wasn't allowed?

I'm fairly certain it's allowed in Vegas...but I'm sure it's highly dependent on local regulations. I live just down the highway from two casinos that I'm fairly certain do it.

It is illegal to pump in extra oxygen. What the Vegas casinos (and I would think most other ones as well) do is have higher airflow and air exchange. This helps to remove the smoke coming from all the smokers.


User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 31):
I'm pretty sure that the angle there was to goad you into playing higher-value machines, which would presumably be much less generous.

Sounds perverse. Is that legal?


User currently offlineplanejamie From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 576 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5298 times:

In the UK the age to drink/smoke/everything else is 18, drive 17 yet lottery & sex is 16 (regardless of sexuality/gender).

So my guess is because you don't stand to lose so much on the lottery/scratchcards as you would in a casino and also the fact casinos serve alcohol (then again so do pubs and you can buy a certain amount of alcohol provided you've got food with it and you're with someone over 18). And then again, we don't really have casinos here!


User currently offlineCadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1551 posts, RR: 4
Reply 43, posted (1 year 10 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5292 times:

Quoting AlnessW (Reply 27):
I couldn't agree more.

For the record, I am 27, and if the question of 18 being the drinking/gambling/etc. age ever came up on a ballot, my vote would be YES for the reasons I stated in my original post.

Marc


User currently offlineAlnessW From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (1 year 10 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

Quoting ha763 (Reply 40):
It is illegal to pump in extra oxygen. What the Vegas casinos (and I would think most other ones as well) do is have higher airflow and air exchange. This helps to remove the smoke coming from all the smokers.

Interesting to know.

Quoting AM744 (Reply 41):
Sounds perverse. Is that legal?

Not sure.

Quoting planejamie (Reply 42):
In the UK the age to drink/smoke/everything else is 18, drive 17 yet lottery & sex is 16 (regardless of sexuality/gender).

That system makes more sense to me. The idea that all 21 year-olds are responsible and all 18-20 year olds are not is absurd.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 43):
For the record, I am 27, and if the question of 18 being the drinking/gambling/etc. age ever came up on a ballot, my vote would be YES for the reasons I stated in my original post.

 


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 45, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4883 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 29):
Highway funds. Any state is quite free to reduce the drinking age to 18. Or 6, for that matter. But they lose their highway funds.

Which why for so many years the interstates in Louisiana were the worst in the nation.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 30):
BTW, gambling is one of the few sins I don´t participate in. I rather waste my money on books, technical stuff, musical instruments and my girlfriend.

I view gambling as a form of entertainment, like going to the movies, a concert or a sporting event. I've spent as much going to a hockey game as I would at a casino in Las Vegas in an afternoon. Yes there are those who are obvious addicts, but there those who play for fun and aren't spending money they cannot afford to play with.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 39):
I can get one made for only CAD$50 up here. But when I was a teen I always went for the latter.


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6087 posts, RR: 29
Reply 46, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4796 times:
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Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
No but seriously, I think it has to do with the laws coming into affect at different times. They came up with law X and set the age as 21, then law Y came along and they set it at 18, law Z for 18, etc. I think it just boils down to bureaucracy and never will make sense

In Illinois you can be 17 and gamble at a horse track, but have to be 21 to go to a casino. The Casino law was passed in the early 1990s, but the horse track thing goes back to the 1920s.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinefbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 28
Reply 47, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4594 times:

Quoting planejamie (Reply 42):
In the UK the age to drink/smoke/everything else is 18, drive 17 yet lottery & sex is 16 (regardless of sexuality/gender).

My favourite is that in the UK the age of consent is 16 but to purchase pornography you need to be 18! You can do it yourself but need to wait 2yrs before watching others at it  



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
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