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Should Romney Be Elected?  
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8329 posts, RR: 9
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

We have a thread asking if Obama should be re-elected, but not one focused on Romney. So let's get one started.

I'll start off with a bit "No!"

Reasons?

To me the guy is a plastic politician, working hard to deflect anything that might show where he is heading. Closing Loopholes? Won't say which ones, but my bet is that the middle class gets the hit.

Obviously the Income Tax Returns is a major issue, especially for a guy who stashes money overseas. Swill Bank Accounts? Doesn't fly with me if you want to be President.

Actually, there are too many reasons to list and you's need that Etch-A-Sketch to keep track of his changes in position.

So, nope. Romney is the little man on the wedding cake - without the mustache.

159 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

Most points covered above - he's way out of touch. I think we'll see him being shown up in the October debates. After he loses in November he'll go back to one of his enormous mansions and be forgotten about pretty quickly.

What I don't understand is that how he can say that because he's a business man he'll be a good president. Sure, he may know how to keep the financials in check, but what about all the other things that a president needs to know about?



Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4259 times:

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 1):
he may know how to keep the financials in check

And if he would offer real DETAILS and make this financials his agenda items 1-10, I think he could have Reagan style popularity.
.
...but instead he is a new style Republican who harps on God, Gays and Guns ten times a day. Obama has it won unless he makes a major misstep sometime soon.

Pu


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2739 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

We elected Clinton, Bush and Obama so why not Romney?


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6730 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4238 times:

I think indeed both what the incumbent has done and proposes, and what the contender offers, are important to consider. For example the Spaniards didn't like austerity imposed by the Socialists, so they elected the other guy without caring about his platform, which of course was twice more austerity (and undoing some social reforms that the people actually liked).

In France most of what Sarkozy did was rejected, and in fact he had to undo some of it himself (for example tax cuts for the rich at the beginning of his mandate were scrapped at the end), but in the end he stuck to his previous campaign of seduction towards the extreme right, except half of those he seduced last time thought he fooled them and just didn't vote this time, while half the center right was frightened and voted Socialist.

Even if I try to follow the US elections, I'm not seeing it from there or with a US citizen view, to me Obama is center right and if pitted against Romney here the election would give Obama 75% of the vote easily, in fact our right loves him !



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4232 times:

I could care less how rich or pompous he is. He's a rich guy, so are most of our other presidents. I won't go into who was born into wealth, who was self-made, who got help from his daddy, etc because I don't care.

He could be a big douchebag for all I care... if he had realistic, good plans (with well defined details) I'd probably vote for him. Also, willingness to go to war with Iran is a big one for me (please don't.) But for me, the economy is first and foremost in this election. I believe he has a good understanding of it, I'm just not sure if he'd fix it the way it needs to me (I'm not calling for a stereotypical all out liberal nanny state, but I think we need something left of the GOP, something in the center.) Not sure if Romney or Ryan are the men to do it



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):

willingness to go to war with Iran is a big one for me (please don't

The average person in the states is is their 30s. For a lot of people, a vote for Republicans means voting for war in the Middle East, that is their memory and still more or less Republican policy, its been the Bush family obsession.
.
If Romeny could guarantee there will be no war with Iran or anyone else (unless attacked), he would pick up many of the swing voters who have simply made not wanting more war their key issue.

Pu


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6730 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4217 times:

Also to consider is the shared power in the US, so what does it mean to have Obama/GOP house/50/50 senate or other combinations. Romney could be "moderate" himself but have to sign on crazy stuff from his party.

[Edited 2012-09-23 17:05:33]


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 7):
Romney could be "moderate" himself but have to sign on crazy stuff from his party.

Not really, he could easily veto something. Hell would be raised, but just because there is only 1 GOP president and hundreds of GOP Congressmen/women doesn't mean he has to "go along" with everything they push through

Quoting pu (Reply 6):
For a lot of people, a vote for Republicans means voting for war in the Middle East, that is their memory and still more or less Republican policy, its been the Bush family obsession.

Most people I've talked to are focusing on the economy. They absolutely think that the President has caused/prolonged/__insert here____ the economic crisis and that almost anyone can do better. Contrary to popular belief, they would not elect a monkey over the President Obama (unless of course they thought the monkey would do a better job.)

People like to over think this election and why people are voting for Romney. Many on the other side come up with crazy things. I am around a lot of Romney supporters and they are simple people like you and me (even foreigners...) they want a good economy. They just don't agree on which candidate will do a better job. Nothing radical or anything



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16307 posts, RR: 56
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

Obama has been largely a failure: massive deficits which will impoverish future generations and no concrete action on the economy. Obama does not deserve to be re-elected, which means (by default) tha Romney does deserve to be elected.

Romney, as a businessman, has a better skillset to help lead America's economic recovery than Obama, who has never run a business, or had to meet a payroll or even worked in the private sector,



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4146 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
Most people I've talked to are focusing on the economy. They absolutely think that the President has caused/prolonged/__insert here____ the economic crisis and that almost anyone can do better

The fiasco in Europe is knockng 1-2% off America's GDP growth and stifling domestic hiring. The euro crisis has added record strength to the dollar which as usual has hurt the US economy, made exports more expensive to overseas buyers and made investing abroad cheaper than nvesting/hiring at home.

Any preisdent would be in the same position, America no longer writes its own ticket economically - the rest of the world is much more influential.

Pu


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4144 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Closing Loopholes? Won't say which ones, but my bet is that the middle class gets the hit.

That would be interesting considering that some liberals seem to think that tax deductions and loopholes can only be used by the rich, despite a complete inability to show where the tax code says so.

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 1):
Most points covered above - he's way out of touch.

What presidential candidate isn't? I doubt anyone complained about Kennedy being too rich. I don't want an everyman president, because the everyman is kind of a dumbass.

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 1):
After he loses in November he'll go back to one of his enormous mansions and be forgotten about pretty quickly.

He's already done no matter what happens in the election. If I were him I'd find it awfully tempting to not refile those overpaid tax returns and flip a double barreled bird while getting on the plane for some island.

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 1):
What I don't understand is that how he can say that because he's a business man he'll be a good president.

He's not just any businessman, but a private equity guy who specialized in taking over struggling companies, cutting the failed parts, retooling and refocusing the parts that work and selling at a profit. A large portion of the government could use a similar treatment.

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 1):
Sure, he may know how to keep the financials in check, but what about all the other things that a president needs to know about?

How much do you think Eisenhower knew about running an economy? Clinton was far from being a military expert for that matter. Nobody on the planet knows enough to do the job without their army of advisers, so suffice to say that whoever is president will have people around them to keep other things in check.

Quoting pu (Reply 6):
For a lot of people, a vote for Republicans means voting for war in the Middle East, that is their memory and still more or less Republican policy, its been the Bush family obsession.

First of all, that's a flawed memory since Clinton spent a pretty good chunk of his term sending American planes and troops overseas to Iraq, Bosnia, and Kosovo.

And I think you'd be hard pressed to find a modern president who wouldn't have reacted similarly to the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Hell, I bet a lot of them would have marched all the way to Baghdad in 1991.

George W. was just a neocon and a born again Christian Zionist, which isn't something shared by the entirety of the Republican party by any stretch.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

Quoting pu (Reply 10):

I'm not arguing one position or another. I'm saying what others I talk to tend to think. As far as what I think, I try not to get into that because the Commander-in-Chief is my boss  

Basically my point is the reasons I see many voting for Romney are straight forward and simple, despite others disagreeing. It isn't for some crazy reason, and most people I know aren't "voting for war with Iran."

I personally think that even Romney wouldn't go for a full-on invasion, but I do not wish to find out



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4131 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
That would be interesting considering that some liberals seem to think that tax deductions and loopholes can only be used by the rich, despite a complete inability to show where the tax code says so.

Yet is Romney saying that he will close loopholes.. the ones that can be used by everyone. Raising effective tax rates for everyone.

You cant deny that the "rich" - for whatever reason - use these loopholes more often that the "poor"

So, BMI727 Which ones do you think he would cut?

Very interesting indeed...



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7213 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4127 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
To me the guy is a plastic politician,


That is pretty funny coming from someone who supports Obama. Pres Obama is the perfect politician.

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 1):
What I don't understand is that how he can say that because he's a business man he'll be a good president. Sure, he may know how to keep the financials in check, but what about all the other things that a president needs to know about?


Right now that is by far the most important thing in the election right now.

Quoting pu (Reply 2):
Obama has it won unless he makes a major misstep sometime soon.


I somewhat agree with you but the debates will be interesting. I saw Romney on 60minutes today and that was the best I have seen him. He spoke well, gave some specifics and when he did not he gave the reasons why he does not have the specifics. If he can do what he did today on 60 minutes in the debate this is going to be a very close race.

Quoting pu (Reply 6):
If Romeny could guarantee there will be no war with Iran or anyone else (unless attacked),


No one will guarantee that. If they do they are lying.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 9):
Obama has been largely a failure: massive deficits which will impoverish future generations and no concrete action on the economy. Obama does not deserve to be re-elected, which means (by default) tha Romney does deserve to be elected.


Bingo! Romney is not the best guy in the world to be president but Obama has failed. He has not even kept many of his own promises. He continues to be smoke and mirrors with some big government splashed in.


Let me tell a little story from a friend of mine who is one of the guys running their family business. This family business has about 150 employees and they serve the low income areas of Miami. Issue number 1, Obamacare is going to cost them a lot of money. It is going to cost them so much money that they are thinking about selling their business to a larger company. This is the problem with America right now, large companies are eating everything up. None of the sides are doing anything to stop this.


Also a recent employee of theirs who was with the company for 15 years decided to take a job at a large company. They told her not to leave, she would just be a "number" to them. She left and a few months later was fired and pleaded for her job back. They gave it to her.

After one day of working she did the math and told my friend that she would make a little bit less using unemployment so she quit. She filed for unemployment saying she could not work at the company due to some 7th day Saturday religion or something. My friend, her and the unemployment agency (whatever it is) had a phone conference. My friend let the agency know that the lady worked for them previously for 15 years and always worked on Saturdays. She mad an bbvious lie. Well they got a letter back saying my friend's company would not have to pay for unemployment but the government was still giving her unemployment money. So tax money. They decided this after an obvious lie.
^This is what the United States of America is coming to. We are certainly not moving forward.


I think everyone who thinks Romeny is all about the rich needs to watch his interview with 60 minutes.
A. Romney his whole entire life has cared about people less fortunate than him he wont stop now and he can't win an election if he does.
B. Romney believes that medicare and social security should give more benefits to the people that need it the most low income people. He knows he does not need medicare much or social security but others do. He also wants to close down loopholes for everyone yes. Another thing he wants to do is make the capital gains tax 0% for MIDDLE CLASS people not for wealthy Americans. He has no problem paying 14% on capital gains, he does have a problem that a family making $100k does.

[Edited 2012-09-23 19:00:14]

[Edited 2012-09-23 19:00:33]

[Edited 2012-09-23 19:01:38]


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3387 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
This is the problem with America right now, large companies are eating everything up. None of the sides are doing anything to stop this.

That is the work of the free market, big corporations use their economies of scale to muscle out small businesses that simply do not have the ability to keep costs in line.

This is the Wal Mart effect



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6730 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4018 times:

This is a thread about Romney. Obama has failed isn't a great argument for Romney. And "he's a businessman" falls a bit short, especially when you consider his background, it's not like he dreamed up his company while flipping burgers at McDonald's and seeded it with his hard earned money.

In fact, I wonder if there are statistics about the wealth of people 20 years after Harvard ? I doubt many are in trouble financially.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently onlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3975 times:
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Quoting Aesma (Reply 16):
And "he's a businessman" falls a bit short, especially when you consider his background

Specially since this year he chose to pay more taxes this past year that he was required to pay. What kind of business man is willing to leave money on the table?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7213 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 22 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 17):

The problem with that statement you made about him paying more taxes is if he paid the lowest rate possible you would just complain about that. It's a lose-lose situation for him. A pathetic situation that people are attacking him about legally paying taxes.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8329 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 22 hours ago) and read 3903 times:

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 1):
What I don't understand is that how he can say that because he's a business man he'll be a good president.

Just how good a businessman is this guy? Made a LOT of money for himself, but as a capital guy. Look at top businessmen during our lives. Lee Iacocca? I'd give him high marks. Alan Mullally? First rate businessman. Steve Jobs? Top of the line also.

These guys ran (or are running) companies that produce products and are involved in production. These are the guys that build jobs.

Quoting pu (Reply 6):
its been the Bush family obsession.

Bush I was probably the most effective President in a war time environment we have had. He quickly brought countries together, moved personnel & material into the area as fast as he could and let his top military people get on with doing the job at hand very professionally. He also had the wisdom to know when to end the hostilities.

Bush II was totally different. He listened to the absolute wrong people, like Cheney & Rummy, who really knew jack $hit about military needs in the area. I could care less about their "experience" in Defense Matters - they were playing game they should not have played. My guess is that Bush II didn't call his father for advice that would have been exceptionally valuable at that time.

Bush III? If you're talking about Jeb then I believe he is closer to his father than W in terms of international maturity. If you're talking about Mitt then I believe he will be closer to W when it comes to military conflicts. Especially if he gets a yo-yo like Bolton in a senior position.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):
Most people I've talked to are focusing on the economy.

That is because Mitt has made so many dumb moves in other areas the economy is the only hope they have.

The odd thing is that, while the economy is difficult in many areas, it is also moving forward in other areas. I had to take a 2,000 mile road trip last week and was surprised at the number of big rigs on the road. There was the scattering of retailer trucks (like WalMart) but there was also a lot of open bed trucks carrying industrial parts or equipment.

I didn't count the trucks, but literally saw thousands on the interstate. It was pretty clear that there is a lot of "economic activity" going on with major movements of goods in both directions.

The GOP may not be able to count on a "bad economy" to get Willard elected.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 9):
Obama does not deserve to be re-elected, which means (by default) tha Romney does deserve to be elected.

Don't like Obama - that's clear. So write in Ron Paul and you'll probably be happier.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 9):
Romney, as a businessman, has a better skillset to help lead America's economic recovery than Obama, who has never run a business, or had to meet a payroll or even worked in the private sector,

A lot of people bring that up - meaning that a lot of people have forgotten that we had "businessmen" in the White House before. Bush II was an MBA and a "businessman" Even more impressive was Cheney, CEO of a major national corporation. (I think that Rummy was also CEO of a large company)

There you go - businessmen in the White House - just like some people believe is necessary TODAY.

How did those "businessmen" do? they delivered The Great Recession for starters. And started a totally unnecessary 10 year War, paid for with a credit card. They were loosing 750,000 jobs a month at the end of their businessmen led administration.

But, hey, the wealthy made huge strides under them.

Basically the best I can see for Mitt is that he would be Bush III a "Businessman President" - just like Bush III.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 12):
I personally think that even Romney wouldn't go for a full-on invasion,

Mitt doesn't know what he would do, but there will be a "Cheney" around to handle the situation, get Halliburton lined up for their contract to make billions and get that tax cut in before going into another long term war on the credit card.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 12):
but I do not wish to find out

Most Americans don't want to find out, but a plastic politician like Romney can be pushed and shoved into all sorts of decisions. Just look at W.

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):

That is pretty funny coming from someone who supports Obama.

It's pretty easy to support Obama. First I look at all the FUBARs from Cheney/Bush, er, Bush/Cheney Years - including the Great Recession. Do I really want another "GOP Businessman" after the horrid Bush/Cheney Years? Not a chance.

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
Obama has failed



Well, he turned the economic death spiral around, avoiding a full blown depression we were heading towards.

He got health care reform passed. Not as good as it could have been, but the best compromise when you look at large groups (like health insurance companies) that had to sign on. That, BTW, was a campaign pledge so it was no surprise that it would be on the table.

He also had the Party of No willing to do any harm to the country in order to ensure Obama was a one term president.

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
He has not even kept many of his own promises.



He has kept some. He returned our focus on finding OBL and he gave the green light to kill him

Promised to move out of Iraq and has done a good job there.

Promised health care reform and delivered

More was possible, but the Party of No and the TPers kept that from happening.

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
o cost them so much money that they are thinking about selling their business to a larger company. This is the problem with America right now, large companies are eating everything up. None of the sides are doing anything to stop this.

Maybe they should firsts look to the law for help in paying for that insurance - if they are even interested in covering those employees.

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
Issue number 1, Obamacare is going to cost them a lot of money. It is going to cost them so much money that they are thinking about selling their business to a larger company.

Obviously your friend's company doesn't pay for health insurance on 150 employees. That means they generally have to go to the ER when they get sick, jacking up the costs of medicare for those who do have insurance. Also creating a 4 hour wait for those with insurance who go to the ER for legitimate reasons. That friend is part of the problem that made ObamaCare critical.



So if your friend sells have them call Bain Capital. They might as well make the money as your friend is pretty much a Romney Supporter.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
I doubt anyone complained about Kennedy being too rich.

JFK wasn't known for Swiss Bank Accounts, Bahamas & Caribbean tax free accounts, etc. Top rate when JFK was elected was 90% and he had that lowered to 75%. The country did well under that 75% top rate and

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
A large portion of the government could use a similar treatment.

Last time we moved Republican businessmen into the WHite House we ended up with The Great Recession. Who was the last Republican Businessman in the White House who actually did a good job for the country?n Can anyone remember one? (Rockefeller excluded - a VP and one called in to fill an empty seat in a difficult time.)

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
After one day of working she did the math and told my friend that she would make a little bit less using unemployment so she quit.

WHich pretty well indicates that your friend paid minimum wage, no health insurance and probably nothing else in terms of benefits. ]

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
This is what the United States of America is coming to.

Minimum wage jobs? Sure sounds like it.

Quoting flymia (Reply 14):
We are certainly not moving forward.

Not when companies like that one shrink the middle class instead of growing it.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 15):
This is the Wal Mart effect

WalMart started off very small and grew initially by serving small communities.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 22 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
Just how good a businessman is this guy? Made a LOT of money for himself
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
These are the guys that build jobs.

Since when did business become about building jobs? It's all about making money. I can't see why people are criticizing him for that, it's like getting mad at a dog for barking. It's what they do. I can see not wanting to vote for him because of that reason, but saying he's not a good businessman, well, is untrue IMO

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
That is because Mitt has made so many dumb moves in other areas the economy is the only hope they have.

Not really, economy is just the top of most people's mind I find. If he had a solid plan that I think would turn the country around, I'd vote for him, despite his many short comings. Economy is key in this election to me and many others. JMO



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4673 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 22 hours ago) and read 3893 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 18):
The problem with that statement you made about him paying more taxes is if he paid the lowest rate possible you would just complain about that. It's a lose-lose situation for him. A pathetic situation that people are attacking him about legally paying taxes.

He paid taxes, but the issues on past returns would be interesting to see if he was involved in any of the "repatriation" of money from swiss banks or the like? Did he have a better financial understanding and footing for the recession?
Small details that may or not make hime or break him.



I will not be voting for Romney due to the following.
1. He was not the favorite choice amongs the GOP, he only became the default choice when everyone else was deemed a loser in a race against Obama
2. He helped architect Romneycare to give health options to the state of massachusettes, where it is working, and now wants to tear down Obama Care for the nation.
3. He has consistantly proved that an etch-a-sketch is his best platform. He ran as a moderate for governor of massachusetts, and is now a Strong Conservative for the GOP in 2012
4. Romney's gaff on the war on libya and the 47% indicate some questionable circles for his ideas of the people and policies of the US.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently onlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 21 hours ago) and read 3873 times:
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Quoting flymia (Reply 18):
It's a lose-lose situation for him. A pathetic situation that people are attacking him about legally paying taxes.

Its not a loose-loose. There is a lot to be said about honesty.

Right now, he is lying to your face.. how do you feel about that?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
Since when did business become about building jobs? I

Exactly! So how does his "businessman" credentials help to be a better President?

[Edited 2012-09-24 12:57:41]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15781 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 21 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 13):
So, BMI727 Which ones do you think he would cut?

Well considering that

Quoting mt99 (Reply 13):
Yet is Romney saying that he will close loopholes.. the ones that can be used by everyone. Raising effective tax rates for everyone.

I don't have any reason to think otherwise.

Quoting flymia (Reply 18):
A pathetic situation that people are attacking him about legally paying taxes.

  

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
Made a LOT of money for himself, but as a capital guy. Look at top businessmen during our lives. Lee Iacocca? I'd give him high marks. Alan Mullally? First rate businessman. Steve Jobs? Top of the line also.

These guys ran (or are running) companies that produce products and are involved in production. These are the guys that build jobs.

I guess Staples just has an abnormally high proportion of customers who wear red shirts and help people. What about Domino's?

Just to get this straight, in your warped world running a company that employs people is good but running a company that owns companies that employ people is bad?

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
Mitt doesn't know what he would do, but there will be a "Cheney" around to handle the situation, get Halliburton lined up for their contract to make billions and get that tax cut in before going into another long term war on the credit card.

Damn right. War is great business, which is why invading Iran would be bad. You can't go around getting rid of boogeymen because eventually you will run out and then won't be able to justify keeping the gravy train rolling. I need the Iranians and Israelis to rattle their sabres.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
JFK wasn't known for Swiss Bank Accounts, Bahamas & Caribbean tax free accounts, etc. Top rate when JFK was elected was 90% and he had that lowered to 75%.

His dad just made a pile of cash via insider trading.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 19):
Last time we moved Republican businessmen into the WHite House we ended up with The Great Recession.

Of course if you weren't dumb enough to buy into the bubble you could have made a lot of money between the 9/11 recession and the housing crash.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 20):
Since when did business become about building jobs? It's all about making money.

  



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6615 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 21 hours ago) and read 3864 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
Quoting mt99 (Reply 13):
Yet is Romney saying that he will close loopholes.. the ones that can be used by everyone. Raising effective tax rates for everyone.

I don't have any reason to think otherwise.

Cool.. so tell me - Which loopholes would you recommend closing?



Step into my office, baby
25 BMI727 : I'd just switch to Fair Tax.
26 Post contains images mt99 : But that is not what he is proposing.... Again - what loopholes would you recommend him closing?
27 PSA53 : Obama has lied his way in office and he will lie his way out. And his big government and redistribution ideas concerns me. Yes on Romney.Romney isn't
28 BMI727 : I'd recommend him switching to Fair Tax, which basically has no loopholes.
29 mt99 : But obvious he doesn't like the Fair Tax idea - Which current loophole do you think it would be most useful to close?
30 BMI727 : Honestly, none of them. Raising taxes in a weak economy is a poor idea. (That was one of several things FDR did to prolong the Great Depression)
31 Post contains images Ken777 : So his experience is about making money, not building jobs? Is that why he was one of the lowest rated governors in building jobs? That's what you wa
32 BMI727 : More like provided capital to get it off the ground and spent fifteen years as a board member. Bought the company and during the Bain years Domino's
33 pu : Because there are millions in Oklahoma, Indiana and Texas who shop at Walmart because they are streteched to make ends meet yet are still saying thin
34 PSA53 : Let's cut to the chase.... That fact of the manner is democrats just don't like business people in politics.Look what happen to Meg and Carly in Ca.Th
35 BMI727 : There's no need to punish them for that. Who wouldn't? China has lower costs and an emerging market while America...doesn't. America will greet you w
36 Ken777 : So he picked up Director Fees for 15 years and didn't even have to work, even at an executive level. Sounds like Herman Cain. Except Cain was more in
37 BMI727 : There was also the small matter of the capital and guidance that came from Bain. What do you think people who work in private equity do all day? Coun
38 Aesma : I just watched an interview of an economist talking about the global economy and especially the situation in Europe, but he mentioned that in the US t
39 zckls04 : That just proves the Dems don't like useless CEOs. Given how well HP is doing I'm pretty glad California didn't end up with either of them. I don't t
40 DeltaMD90 : Well I posted in another thread about this already, but you cannot deny being a successful businessman builds leadership. Now you may disagree with h
41 mt99 : [/quote] Yes. He is lying to you face by choosing to pay more taxes. Is that leadership? Flip-floping.. is that leadership? SO do you don't agree with
42 DeltaMD90 : What you are talking about???
43 Post contains links mt99 : Oh come on. Lying to your face.. Great Leadership demonstrated "Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney chose to pay more in taxes than he need
44 BN747 : The biggest misconception out there. Business is not interchangeable with politics. Business is also not interchangeable with other businesses. Could
45 aa757first : It is when most people consider only the Republican or Democratic candidate. The only other option is to not vote.
46 DeltaMD90 : Okay 1: he did some gimmicky political stunt (every politician in existence has done that) 2: where did he lie? He paid more than 13% Are you saying
47 mt99 : I will agree with you there. Do you think that Obama has leadeship? or he got elected by being a lazy follower? And stunts like these show leadership
48 Post contains links BMI727 : I like it better than I like Obama's, but overall I don't think it's great. Neither is military service but that didn't stop Eisenhower. And I'd love
49 Ken777 : What a load of crap. Truman was both a Democrat and a small business guy. What Democrats don't really like are the Cheney types who leave the country
50 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Good point. Uh, if a leader ever made a promise like that, I'd never vote for them. Why should they (we) tie our hands behind our backs just to make
51 BMI727 : There's nothing free about "free" healthcare. The costs are going to have to be placed somewhere, so if companies no longer have to pay for employee
52 PlanesNTrains : Lol. Ok, at least there is some fun in this thread. -Dave
53 BN747 : Eisenhower was preceded by T. Roosevelt, Jackson, Washington..exceptional individuals exist. Romney is not one of them. Reagan, sure, he was an actor
54 BMI727 : Who's not giving Obama credit for killing Bin Laden? You just don't get to decide that Romney's business successes don't count because they don't emp
55 BMI727 : The same sort of new economic reality that is now hitting the American economy as a whole hit the airlines with deregulation. The "fall" was largely
56 StarAC17 : It may have but as it grew it was able to (not sure if it was intentional) drive out competition consisting of mom and pop shops all over North Ameri
57 BN747 : Is anything spoken or broadcast about Republicans banned where you are? Huge mis-read on your part. I'm attacking the very predatory nature of his bu
58 BMI727 : I don't pay attention to any of it. And for what it's worth, I imagine a lot of the people involved with finding and setting up the operation to kill
59 BN747 : Wait... first you ask.. Then you say... Then why bother asking the former in the 1st place? Okay...on that note, I'm just saying 'No to the OP's quest
60 Post contains links Aaron747 : Well now Romney apparently believes pressurized aircraft require windows that open. That seals the deal for me. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0
61 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Oh yes I saw this. He said the biggest problem in a distressed aircraft is that "the windows don’t open. I don’t know why they don’t do that. I
62 Post contains images Wolbo : Honestly, what World does this guy live in?
63 zckls04 : Somewhere in here there's a point, but I just can't seem to find it. True, but I think that's independent of whether he's a businessman or not, and I
64 vinniewinnie : What a load of crap! 1) Democrats like business people just as much as Republicans, the difference is that they object to business people abusing the
65 Ken777 : I believe he took Poli Sci in college and he did serve a term as governor of California. Basically, though, he just had the good luck to follow Carte
66 bhill : No he should not, Romney does not either: "...a pledge Romney made during an interview in July, when he told ABC News he would not pay more in taxes "
67 BMI727 : I haven't seen Romney's transcripts, but I imagine there was a class or two of politics in there. The Democrats should wake up each morning and thank
68 Post contains links mt99 : and there you go: here is the lie: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trans...ry?id=16881787&page=2#.UGINDlF5uuL
69 pvjin : No, no Republican should ever get elected. Obama's policies are at least bit more rational than any Republican would do.
70 pu : I think Romney is the ideal person to wring efficiency out of government on an operational level. In other words, if a general policy is put in place
71 DeltaMD90 : Sorry, I went to bed and just got back from work. Of course I think the President has leadership. I think it would be impossible to get elected to Pre
72 Ken777 : As long as Romney and his wealthy friends get that reduction they could give a rat's a$$ about the rest of us. First, there would be plenty of money
73 DeltaMD90 : That's a pretty bold thing to say. Maybe his policies end up favoring the rich but to claim he only cares about rich people... well that just sounds
74 BMI727 : China is building China's superpower status. They have a ton of people and as they slowly extricate themselves from Communism what's happening now wa
75 zckls04 : They're the opposite of common sense, as has been shown many times in many threads. Solving a non-existent problem by throwing money at it is ludicro
76 Ken777 : Ike was OK. Nixon was OK in a lot of areas, but let the yahoos close to him screwed up his Presidency. Like it or not, Nixon was one of the smartest
77 BMI727 : Considering the cost, I think he would. Cutting the interest deduction, unless moving to an entirely new scheme like Fair Tax, would be suicidal. How
78 Aesma : No, the option is to look at what each candidate is proposing. Obama is not proposing to fail, of course. Romney is proposing what ? I don't know. Bu
79 Ken777 : Ike was OK. Nixon was OK in a lot of areas, but let the yahoos close to him screwed up his Presidency. Like it or not, Nixon was one of the smartest
80 BN747 : Not after you've taken a good listen to the now publicly available chat between Nixon and Edgar Kaiser (yes, of Kaiser Permanente Healthcare). You ma
81 CaliAtenza : thats fine and its the main concern that everyone has right now but Romney said in that video that if he was elected the economy would magically get
82 CaliAtenza : but this is specifically targeted at minorities who have already proven that they say who they are.
83 DeltaMD90 : there's more to it than that but yes, he is extremely vague. You gotta realize though there are a ton of people that think the President is doing a h
84 Post contains images Ken777 : We have had a lot of elections where things went fairly well - except for Florida's hanging chads. What is on the line right now is access to the vot
85 BMI727 : Can those people not get drivers' licenses or IDs? I don't want the sin taxes. It's none of the government's business what I eat or drink and as a re
86 Post contains links and images flymia : The way AA has been ran I could probably run it better Not this nonsense again. The Law of the Land aka Supreme Court has already decided this issue.
87 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : And that's different from Obama how? I'll explain. You suggest that being a good businessperson doesn't necessarily make someone a good president. I
88 CaliAtenza : then why did he say he didnt care about 47% of people? when did the Democrats ever espouse this? I dont think that the Dems are against these people
89 flymia : If you think what he meant by saying "he does not care about the 47%" means he does not care about them as people and he would not care about them if
90 casinterest : Yeah, but the Republican's built a whole convention out of a misquote. What romney put out there was not misquoted, It was what Romney said and meant
91 flymia : This makes no sense. If you agree that "you did not build that" was a misquote how can you think the way Obama's camp is using 47% is not a misquote?
92 Post contains links and images casinterest : Let me put the quote in front of you and let you tell me it is a misquote. His not not talking about just voters here. "The Quote "There are 47 perce
93 zckls04 : Well, that's true. However a good politician knows to hire good advisors on different subjects to explain these things to him, while he takes a more
94 StarAC17 : If you don't know how to drive and don't have the means to own a car then why would you get a license. I don't know what other photo ID you get in Am
95 Post contains links Ken777 : If they have their birth certificate - and many citizens don't. So they have to spend $20 or so to get that certificate in order to get the photo ID.
96 PSA53 : Like the media darlings,APPLE? Right. Facebook executive denounces his citizenship? Right. Double standards are very clear and Obama has made it main
97 pu : I say the way to do this is let the Republicans have their voter ID requirements, but balance the burden that places on some people by making it easi
98 BMI727 : Some people talk about raising minimum wage like it's a magic bullet. Sure some people will get raises, sure, and others will get pink slips. Which i
99 casinterest : Sin Taxes exist due to their costs to the public. Intoxication, smoking and other items have serious effects on medicare and medicaid. Sure so the wh
100 BMI727 : So, alter the system to remove most of the public costs.
101 casinterest : Sure. the fantasy land plan. Just tell me how you would do it . Especially for the poor and destitute.
102 BMI727 : Throw the doors open and let healthcare be a business, just like food. People can buy what they can afford. Doctors would have incentive to reduce co
103 flipdewaf : So you are in an industry that collapses and you can no longer afford health insurance, then you find out you have bowel cancer, should those people
104 BMI727 : Unfortunately, yes, unless they find some low cost or care through a charity. Beats asking all of us to pay for the irresponsibility of others.
105 zckls04 : Leaving aside the tedious tribal war you insist on fighting, are you really saying that Carly Fiorina is somebody you want running the most economica
106 lewis : And how is that good for ANY society? Would you feel the same if that person is you? What if it is one of your children. I do read your posts here an
107 zckls04 : What if that cancer is no fault of your own? Sometimes people get sick for no reason. Or sometimes they get old, which is just as risky insurance-wis
108 windy95 : How about making insurance affordable. the affordable health care act has just made insurance more expensive ensuring that people will not be able to
109 casinterest : Healthcare was rising by double digits prior to Obama care, How is it rising more now.? Please show us the charts.
110 mt99 : Yes silly, the intention is to keep healthcare in the hands of government, so it can manipulate the populace as puppets and tum everyone into gay abo
111 zckls04 : One thing that practically all Americans agree on is that they want cover for pre-existing conditions, and don't think it's fair that if, for example
112 Post contains images StarAC17 : I would love to but my shareholders will fire me if I do because they demand "x" return on their investment. Signed, The CEO of any health insurance
113 BMI727 : Getting sick is a problem. I'd prefer it not be made my problem when others get sick and, for that matter, not make it the problem of others when I g
114 zckls04 : Those are the views of a psychopath, wouldn't you say?
115 CaliAtenza : im referring to the part when he said those people depend on the government for food, shelter, medicines, etc...and then he went on to say i cant wor
116 CaliAtenza : according to one of the books i read about the Bin Laden raid that talked about all the back history of the SEALs, apparently there was WMD in Iraq,
117 lewis : I wouldn't use that characterization, but I have never ever interacted with a person so devoid of emotion, its scary! Depends. It will be your proble
118 BMI727 : I doubt that would be a problem. There would still be access to medical care, you would just need to buy it or have insurance that pays for it. That'
119 lewis : Well, healthcare costs are very high. Even a simple operation can cost thousands of dollars. As for health insurance, a lot of people cannot afford i
120 Post contains links flymia : Again I think living in Florida just makes me a bit more prone no matter my political views to be ok with showing a simple ID to vote. See below: htt
121 BN747 : Todd Akin Jim DeMint Mitch McConnell Jan Brewer Rick Santorum Michelle Bachmann Sarah Palin Mike Huckabee Alan West Rush Limbaugh (not a politician b
122 flipdewaf : Stan Smith? Is that you? Do you pay for your own health insurance BMI? Fred[Edited 2012-09-27 02:48:02]
123 DeltaMD90 : But you just said: Of course I'm not talking about changing Rush Limbaugh's mind or something. I'm talking about ordinary people Then why even get on
124 BMI727 : I bet you'd see costs drop if that's what doctors had to do in order to access a segment of the market. Why not let people choose the risk pool they
125 lewis : Hopefully, since even a simple thing such as an X-ray can cost many times what it would cost in places in Europe, even if someone chooses a private p
126 CaliAtenza : what about those who cant afford insurance??? what happens to them?
127 Post contains links CaliAtenza : http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...oter-registration-allegations?lite
128 BMI727 : Exactly, that's the point. So those with an unhealthy lifestyle would have to decide whether or not the cost is worth it. That's why the "responsible
129 BN747 : This is basically a situational 'age' issue. Most of us go thru the same thing, I mean how much can you possibly know at 17-20. Not much, but a few i
130 Ken777 : Actually, several well known companies use the same assembling company. Dell dues. So does HP. So which companies sends senior management to China to
131 BMI727 : Sure there is. Car insurance rates change because risk correlates to age and there's no reason health insurance couldn't do the same. Sickness and/or
132 Aesma : The fact is medical care in the US is far more liberal (meaning free prices, etc.) than in other comparable countries, and spends more than twice as m
133 zckls04 : Precisely. The free market is not the answer to healthcare because you don't have competition to drive down prices. I had my appendix burst when I wa
134 CaliAtenza : "go without"...that seems pretty heartless dont you think? so are you saying you dont care about others? What if your neighbor got sick, or your fami
135 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Well, after typing my entire response to these quotes, I lost it all for whatever reason. I'll be mercifully shorter here: Read the threads on A.net.
136 Post contains links flymia : I'm telling we are jaded here in Florida because fraud has been a problem here an continues to be. Look at this poll. The vast majority of Floridians
137 flipdewaf : Not sure, but I imagine that the default for the republicans is now to have a hastily convened morning press conference ready. Fred
138 DeltaMD90 : I'm sorry you feel that way... I've personally had much success with my friends and family, sharing views slowly rather than bombarding them merciles
139 BN747 : Don't be, some people have more time to burn than others. But even as you'd like to see everyone with a resevoir of patience, grandmas and the like h
140 Ken777 : That assumes that all of the very expensive medical conditions are a result of poor lifestyle choices. So let's start with ALL - the form of acute le
141 BMI727 : If I felt that strongly about it, I would do what I could to help out. No it doesn't. To assume that would mean not having any insurance at all. Some
142 Aesma : Wow. My father had peritonitis too. 5 days in the hospital after a touch and go operation. The bill was around 4000€, of which 3100€ was taken ca
143 Ken777 : Until.of course, you or someone in your family, gets very expensive Dx. You need to look around the world a bit. Core care at a universal level does
144 Post contains links flymia : This is Florida. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...e-voter-registration-applications/ And this is republican stuff, both sides do it. If one sta
145 BMI727 : That's just a risk of living. They'll care when they start losing revenue.
146 flipdewaf : So is the banks losing your money if they go bust but the gov't bailed them out. It is a risk of life that someone may want to take your things but t
147 Aesma : And the purpose of society is to live together and share things to live better. Have a good life in your cave away from civilization. I wonder how yo
148 BMI727 : ...and that better be the last bank bailout. There needs to be regulation to keep banks from telling you they'll do one thing with your money and doi
149 Aesma : Well, health care is exactly that. You can't employ your own surgeon and you can't buy your own MRI machine unless you're in the 1% maybe.
150 BMI727 : I think that a single payer system is no better a plan than just throwing the doors open and letting it be a business. To do so efficiently would req
151 garnetpalmetto : I'm honestly surprised he feels this way. I mean, after all, couldn't the private sector handle law enforcement much more efficiently? That way you o
152 BMI727 : Not that well. How could you manage jurisdictions when it's individual? Police basically have to be organized geographically. How would these private
153 garnetpalmetto : Well, that's too bad, but in our modern era, being a victim of terrorism is just a risk of living.
154 BMI727 : The government doesn't deliver food to my door and yet I eat just fine. Single payer healthcare sounds great on paper, but in practice I'm not willin
155 Post contains links Ken777 : That is the probability of living. They'll only care when they start cutting their executive bonuses. But don't look for them to push improvements to
156 BMI727 : When people can't pay that the healthcare industry is going to find a way to provide that treatment a lot more cheaply. They also have a fraction of
157 flipdewaf : in many of the universal measures of health you will see that the us falls way below many other western countries. So you want to be in a pool of sim
158 BMI727 : What I meant is that it isn't at all surprising nor especially wonderful to have insurance that is 80% cheaper when they don't have to pay out 80% of
159 Post contains links Aesma : Obamacare will not solve this (nor Romney) so it seems the health situation in the US is not going to improve : http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/1..
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