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Armed Police In Your Country  
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7123 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3871 times:

So which countries have armed police and which don't?

NZ - general duties police don't although they have access to weapons if necessary, the Armed Offenders Squad are armed as are the Special Tactics Group who are our counter terrorist police and the Diplomatic Protection Squad also carry.

Norway - General duties police don't carry weapons on them, they do have access to a weapons locker in ther car but need authourisation from the distruct commissioner to draw them. The Emergency Response Unit are armed.

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Germany: All police officers and field customs officers (as the police force of the department of finances) carry a sidearm, together with a pepper spray.
Additionally they often have e.g. a HK MP5 submachine gun in the car (depending on the state). Special units, e.g. the SEKs or the GSG9 have heavier weapons at their disposal.
Use of the firearm will trigger an investigation, since the use is only permitted either for selfdefence or to defend others from lethal danger. The police officer´s first duty is to carry out an arrest. He is not to be judge and executioner in one person.

Jan


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9161 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3855 times:

City police usually not, although in some exceptions they may. Their main task is traffic and parking violations anyhow.

State Police is armed

Federal and Military Police as well

Customs is armed on special tasks when self defense might be necessary.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1789 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

In Spain all police are armed, be it local, regional or national..

Lately several local police forces have moved to include some gun-less officers with limited duties (parking, traffic, beaches, etc.) and with lesser pay and training.


User currently onlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1586 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3845 times:

In the Netherlands all police carry a gun. They very rarely use it though, it's headline news when shots are fired.


Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3834 times:

In France :

Municipal police : a police employed by the town (only sizable ones), no meaningful training, no meaningful powers. About half of them wear guns after a specific 6 weeks training and only if the mayor approves of it.
National police : the police you call when in trouble, real police with guns, arrest powers etc.
Gendarmerie : the police you call when in trouble and in the countryside, same as national police except they're a military corps. A small difference is that when they do fire and hurt/kill someone, it is presumed by the justice system that they did legitimately until proven otherwise. National police doesn't have that protection (and have been on strike a few months ago about this after an incident).
Custom officers that will search trucks and cars on the road are also armed.
Private security can be armed after training, for example bodyguards for celebrities will do this.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3808 times:

UK:

Generally not armed although we do have Police who carry tasers if they are trained with them. Pepper spray is also carried as well.

The Police guarding airports are armed (Heckler & Koch MP5 I believe) as well as the Police protecting Downing Street/Buckingham Palace.

There was an incident last week in Manchester where a guy reported a break in and 2 female Officers went to the house, where they were shot and had a grenade thrown at them by the guy who had reported it. He was also on bail for another shooting in which somebody else died (Yeah, they bailed a potential murderer, work that one out....) They died unfortunately, and now there's a lot of questioning about whether ALL Police should be armed.


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2966 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3760 times:

US:

Everybody has a gun.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9161 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3752 times:

Addition to Germany,

some forces carry pepper spray.

taser not allowed at all.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3740 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5):
In France :

This, but I will add the following details:

In some sensitive areas, special national police units (such as BAC, "Anti-criminality brigade") ride around in undercover cars with helmets, knee/elbow/etc. pads. They have their service weapon, they are allowed one additional personal handgun, plus one taser gun and/or one flashball (that shoots big rubber rounds), and/or one pepper spray bottle.

Municipal police as indicated by Aesma usually don't carry guns (they VERY rarely do). However, they do usually carry handcuffs and a small bottle of pepper spray (the kind that fits into a purse... yeah..), as well as a stick (the big black one).

CRS, which is an anti-riot corps, will usually never carry lethal weapons, nor do they carry taser guns. They usually have pepper spray, a shield, elbow/knee etc. protection pads, sticks, plastic cuffs. They also very often use paintball guns to mark the individuals in the riot who are the most violent and who are to be arrested later on.



Cheers
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week ago) and read 3724 times:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 9):
CRS, which is an anti-riot corps, will usually never carry lethal weapons, nor do they carry taser guns. They usually have pepper spray, a shield, elbow/knee etc. protection pads, sticks, plastic cuffs. They also very often use paintball guns to mark the individuals in the riot who are the most violent and who are to be arrested later on.

I´ve seen some them armed with MAS49 submachine guns, but this was some 20+ years ago.
Since they are riot police and have often to mix physically with their "clients", it makes sense to have those actually getting into the scrap not to wear a gun, since during a scuffle it can easily be stolen. But I´ll bet that there are others, armed, who will cover for them.

Jan


User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week ago) and read 3720 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
I´ve seen some them armed with MAS49 submachine guns, but this was some 20+ years ago.
Since they are riot police and have often to mix physically with their "clients", it makes sense to have those actually getting into the scrap not to wear a gun, since during a scuffle it can easily be stolen. But I´ll bet that there are others, armed, who will cover for them.

Indeed, I forgot that our anti-riot Gendarmes (not CRS, but military police equipped for riots) do carry sub-machine guns.

And BAC, which I mentioned earlier, can also carry sub-machine guns and shotguns.



Cheers
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week ago) and read 3715 times:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 11):
Indeed, I forgot that our anti-riot Gendarmes (not CRS, but military police equipped for riots) do carry sub-machine guns.

They wear the same blue overalls and garrison cap (kepi de police), but only the badge is different, correct?
I once saw a bunch of them kicking out obnoxious bums from the Gare du Nord in Paris.

Jan


User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week ago) and read 3712 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
Use of the firearm will trigger an investigation, since the use is only permitted either for selfdefence or to defend others from lethal danger.

Same here from a legal/policy standpoint. Since policing is largely a state/local function, application of standards varies.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
The police officer´s first duty is to carry out an arrest. He is not to be judge and executioner in one person.

Is there any place where police actually have this level of legal authority?

Edit:

Quoting AF1624 (Reply 9):
Municipal police as indicated by Aesma usually don't carry guns (they VERY rarely do). However, they do usually carry handcuffs and a small bottle of pepper spray (the kind that fits into a purse... yeah..), as well as a stick (the big black one).

It would be awesome if police in the US didn't carry lethal weapons - in a lot of ways I could see it defusing the average domestic disturbance that goes bad, but unfortunately it's completely unrealistic due to the nature of the biz over here. They'd get eaten alive and their bones picked clean by douchebag criminals that would shoot you in the face right after you give them your wallet or the cash out of the register.

[Edited 2012-09-24 07:18:08]

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7811 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3610 times:

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 13):
It would be awesome if police in the US didn't carry lethal weapons - in a lot of ways I could see it defusing the average domestic disturbance that goes bad, but unfortunately it's completely unrealistic due to the nature of the biz over here.

Yeah you'd have a lot of dead cops.

Yeah, the great majority of our cops are armed. It's all department dependent, but most I've seen will have a shotgun per vehicle and/or an M-16 or M-4. A lot of times the M-16s/M-4s would be distributed so there is one per shift or the SWAT/SRT/CRT (or whatever the department calls them) has one.

Despite our local cops having such armament ^^ I've only seen cops with handguns. In Europe surprisingly I see way more cops with sub machine guns (being carried) than America. Come to think of it, I think I saw guys with rifles outside Congress but that's about it



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13968 posts, RR: 63
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 13):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
The police officer´s first duty is to carry out an arrest. He is not to be judge and executioner in one person.

Is there any place where police actually have this level of legal authority?

Fortunately not in democratic countries, but I can imagine a few police states / dictatorships.

Jan


User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3577 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 15):
Fortunately not in democratic countries, but I can imagine a few police states / dictatorships.

Jan

And in the awful movie Judge Dredd.


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3533 times:
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Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
Germany: All police officers and field customs officers (as the police force of the department of finances) carry a sidearm, together with a pepper spray.
Additionally they often have e.g. a HK MP5 sub-machine gun in the car

I just spoke with a friend of mine, who lives in Halle, Germany and is a police detective. I knew he carried a gun, but wasn't sure what kind, so I asked him. My friend carries a Walther P-6 and he said their police cars do indeed carry two sub-machine guns.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
In Europe surprisingly I see way more cops with sub machine guns (being carried) than America

I agree. I don't recall ever seeing a regular police officer with a machine gun that wasn't about to be involved in a situation where it was about to be needed. I have seen customs officers with them though.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 13):
It would be awesome if police in the US didn't carry lethal weapons

It would be nice if they didn't have to, but that won't ever happen. Law enforcement officers almost always carried guns in the US. I say almost always because I bet there are some that may not have at one time or another.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
A lot of times the M-16s/M-4s would be distributed so there is one per shift

A lot of times the sargeant would have one.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12):
I once saw a bunch of them kicking out obnoxious bums from the Gare du Nord in Paris.

I would love to see that.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2838 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 17):
I agree. I don't recall ever seeing a regular police officer with a machine gun that wasn't about to be involved in a situation where it was about to be needed. I have seen customs officers with them though.

It hasn't always been this way in the US as I'm sure you know. At least in LA the watershed event was the 1997 North Hollywood Shootout, where two bank robbers with fully automatic weapons got in a shootout with the LAPD. At the time the majority of the local PD officers were armed with revolvers or personal 9mm semi-automatic pistols.

As far as I know that was the last time a crime was committed in the US with a fully automatic weapon. However, since then more and more local police units will give select officers AR-15s to carry in their patrol vehicle so they are never outgunned. In fact, months after that incident the Department of Defense gave several hundred surplus M-16s to the LAPD which were issued to Sargents.

Out of curiosity I looked up if law enforcement officers in Japan could carry firearms, since firearms are used in so few crimes there. Many officers can. I don't live there, so I won't draw too much from finding that information out other than being surprised that they do.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5564 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3449 times:

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 7):
US:

Everybody has a gun.

Darn, beat me to it  
Quoting JJJ (Reply 3):
Lately several local police forces have moved to include some gun-less officers with limited duties (parking, traffic, beaches, etc.) and with lesser pay and training.

That's actually been the case for a while in the US. While "meter maids" still exist in some cities, most have merged them into a so-called "police assistant" job, unarmed, non-sworn personnel that have limited powers to write parking tickets and help with crowd control.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 18):
As far as I know that was the last time a crime was committed in the US with a fully automatic weapon

Hardly. It may have been the last time bank robbers used fully-automatic weapons on police in an incident of attempted mass-murder, but I can assure you they're used all the time in gang-related shootings.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3413 times:
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Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 19):
but I can assure you they're used all the time in gang-related shootings.

Illegaly imported full auto weapons are fairly common in the gang/drug related crime in Detroit.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinegreasespot From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 3078 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

All armed in Canada.


Cut from my post in the other threat but relevant here as why all cops should be armed.
I can speak of this as i am a cop and i carry a gun.

Now this is canada so here is a few call i dealt with were I was first on scene.

Call comes in for a domestic assault. Speaking with the victim in the parking lot someone yells he is out side. I start heading towards the house and he runs back inside. Now his kids are inside as well.

1 guys ends up barricaded in the house. Screams out the window at me. "I am going to shoot you in the fucking head you fucking cunt". Ducks down behind the window sill and comes up in a shooting stance. Guy is lucky in that he is also drunk and stumbles so I can see that he has no gun or I would have shot him.

Truck driver gets mad at this dispatch and says he is going to to his truck to get a gun and come back in and kill him. I am right there literally. I come around the corner and guy is walking from truck carrying a gun. He saw cruiser and dropped it immediately. Again I was ready to shoot even though there was a lot of people around.

Then last year we had a guy shooting up a business early. Now I thought that this business might be open and people in side being killed so I arrive on scene ready to go. As I get on scene guy walks out of building. I draw down and guy squares off with me and drops the gun. There were none in the building but we have no way of knowing that until it is over. I was so focused and scared, and stressed at the thought of getting into a shoot out i did not even notice that other officers had arrived. In that situation under that much stress do you really think that I would be able to shoot the arm or the leg? Contrary to what most think we react pretty much like any other human when faced with a stressful situation. First to go is fine motor skills. You cannot train for that as you cannot shoot real guns at each other.

The only thing that stopped me from shooting in all circumstances was something that I saw and perceived. Another cop could have come on scene and saw it differently and shot and would have been justified.

a guy I work with had a car driven at him when he was in front of a wall. Cop shots at car and it misses the driver it forces the driver to re-think what he was about to do( that can happen in the UK and tasers do not work on cars)

In there instances I did not have a time or place to call for a armed response unit. If I did not have my gun or baddie did not know I was armed he would have killed many in the few minutes waiting.


We actually had a work place shooting in where the police were trained to contain the shooter. This resulted in many more dead. same thing happened in Columbine. Here we are trained now to attack the shooter directly and shift his focus from one of killing innocent people to either trying to kill us or survival.

One thing in policing there is no absolutes. No one can say this would have happened or would not have happened.

On my last use of force training we did a training about action vs reaction. We had the bad guy sitting at a table with a gun laying on it. the cop had his gun in his hand but at his side. We had to wait for the bad guys action and then to react to it. In every single take the bad guy was able to reach the gun and shoot the copper before they could react.


gs

[Edited 2012-09-24 18:55:57]


Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5564 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

Quoting greasespot (Reply 21):
In that situation under that much stress do you really think that I would be able to shoot the arm or the leg?

According to some posters here, if you can't, you shouldn't be a cop.


Thanks for your stories.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinedetroitflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3362 times:

living in the US, its pretty much a given that every cop will carry a gun. So much so, that I was shocked to find out that they did not carry them in the UK. Ive been there many times, but just always assumed that cops carry guns on them, never really noticed that they did not.
After the two officers were shot and killed, Im suprised that they still do not want to carry guns. To me it seems almost brainless for an officer not to carry a gun; but i guess it is the state of crime here vs over there.



Boiler Up!!!
User currently onlinebongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3535 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3304 times:

Quoting detroitflyer (Reply 23):
After the two officers were shot and killed, Im suprised that they still do not want to carry guns. To me it seems almost brainless for an officer not to carry a gun; but i guess it is the state of crime here vs over there.

The general consensus is that carrying a gun would have been of little use in this incident. They were lured to the property by a report of a burglary. Unless the UK is happy to routinely open their front door to police officers with their weapons drawn, a gun wouldn't have saved them. One of the officers was carrying a taser, but couldn't deploy it in time.


25 MD11Engineer : Again, it is the tactical approach. Not both officers going to the front door at the same time. One standing back and watching, ready to interfere. T
26 Post contains links GDB : But the reason this story is so big in the UK, is that it is, thankfully, so very rare. As stated, the officers were lured to a fake, routine soundin
27 DeltaMD90 : You were very fortunate in your situations. Hopefully many on here can take a lot from your post. Cops, despite their training, aren't supermen and h
28 KaiGywer : That used to be the case, but they can now arm themselves if they believe the situation warrants it. If they choose to do so, however, there will be
29 Dano1977 : Many years ago in the UK, Armed police would generally be based at HQ's only. But at regional level there would be police officers who had "Pink Ticke
30 Maverick623 : To be fair, if a cop points a gun at someone, there's probably already paperwork involved. Even in the US, firing but a single shot means a cop gets
31 Post contains images KaiGywer : True. Gotta love use of force forms
32 Post contains links Mortyman : For those who are interested, you can read more about the Norwegian Emergency Response Unit ( Beredskapstroppen / Delta Team ) here: http://en.wikipe
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