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My Sorry Tale, PC Gone Nuts  
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7819 posts, RR: 5
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2995 times:

A storm in a teacup IMO, last weekend at my oldest sons (he's 7) soccer tournament, between games all the kids were wrestling, my son included, he was wrestling with another child when this kid took it too far and closed fist hit my son in the mouth, this split his lip and blood started to flow, I pulled this kid off mine as it looked like he was going in for another hit, spun him around and told him off, his mother came over and asked what happened, I told her then walked off, I was already pretty mad over a previous incident plus it was starting to rain heavily, I just wanted to go before I said something I would regret. It turned out leaving was a big mistake, the kid who hit mine claimed I had tried to strangle him, not something I would do and now I'm going to be discussed by the clubs disciplinary committee, what makes this even worse is that the child's mother works for social welfare and has apparently started proceedings against me as an unfit parent. My wife is understandably upset.

We were contacted by the club president and informed about the incident and what was going to happen, as nobody apart from myself and the two boys saw what happened my family's side of the story was not told, our version came as a complete surprise to her. She appears to be a fairly reasonable woman and understood why a pulled the other kid off mine, my opinion is what parent wouldn't do what I did, nobody likes seeing there kid get hurt. I am not allowed to attend the meeting.

So there are several possible outcomes, A. nothing will happen, B. I'll be excluded from watching games (no big deal I can't stand football) C. my family will be excluded from the club, this is unfair on my son, and my other son who wants to play next year. The worst scenario is a case will be taken up with social welfare, this is Norway so god only knows what sort of crazy shit could happen, this is what is panicking my wife.

It would appear to me that doing what comes naturally as a parent and protecting your child is not something that should be done without weighing up all possible consequences, it just drives me nuts that this is being blown all out of proportion and I'm being made into a villain, nobody appears to care that my son was smacked by another child. Had my son been the one who had done the hitting another another parent was needed to pull him off I wouldn't have even been upset, I would have accepted that what the other parent did was the correct course of action than I would have told him off as well.

Rant over.

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21857 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

I'm surprised Klaus hasn't weighed in on this yet, since...oh, not that kind of PC going nuts.   

As for your story, hopefully the people involved will see that there's no evidence to support you having strangled the other child, and that'll be the end of it. That said, I can understand why they'd look into it.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1501 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

The problem is that kids do have a tendency to lie to avoid getting in trouble, even when they don't understand the consequences. I remember once being yelled at and threatened by a drunk man at a party and claiming he had slapped me around the face because I wanted to get him into more trouble; an action I regret deeply now. At that age I didn't really think about what would happen to him though.

It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong here, and hopefully (given that the other boy has a predilection for punching people) it will be obvious that you were in the right. You have to investigate these things though (if you actually turned out to be a violent nutcase and ended up doing something really terrible, the club would be rightly criticized for ignoring the warning signs, c.f. Penn State); let's just hope they come to the right conclusion. If they kick you both out, then your rant will be justified.

PS- by the way, this isn't "PC Gone Nuts". That's a strange phrase which seems to have become appropriated to mean "anything I don't like".

[Edited 2012-09-24 11:55:52]


If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2931 times:

What did they say about your son's bleeding lip?


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7819 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2919 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
What did they say about your son's bleeding lip?

The club didn't realise that my son had been belted by the other kid until we told them that happened, which makes it even more nuts, why would I strangle a kid for no reason at all?


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2916 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
The club didn't realise that my son had been belted by the other kid until we told them that happened, which makes it even more nuts, why would I strangle a kid for no reason at all?

I think that helps your case... shows some distrust towards the other kid. That other kid sounds like a real jerk



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8469 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Social welfare in any country can be a pain. If the woman proceeds then it might be best to also file against her for raising bully.

I would also hope the club can ensure equality in their actions. If your son is banned then the bully should also be banned.

Personally I'd bet that the bully has had problems in the past and his mother is well aware of the problems. Her efforts may well be to draw attention away from her son and that might mean the little bully is walking a thin line right now.


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1932 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2898 times:

Did you take any pictures of your son's injury? It could help your case to prove that there was a physical altercation.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 6):
Personally I'd bet that the bully has had problems in the past and his mother is well aware of the problems.

I'd wager the opposite. From my experience coaching kids of varying ages, most parents of asshole children are pretty blind (willfully or not) to the fact that their children are pests. Some parents even become rather belligerent when you mention that their kid was acting inappropriately ("My perfect little boy is not capable of that!", etc.).



Flying refined.
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3842 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2881 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
That other kid sounds like a real jerk

Especially given his apparently overprotective, 'my-wonder-child-is-above-any-suspicion' mother...

Not sure this is the case here, but I just can't stand these people.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineaa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2837 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 7):
Did you take any pictures of your son's injury? It could help your case to prove that there was a physical altercation.

If you haven't, you should right away if there's any indication of an injury. Did anyone else see the blood on the ground?


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6924 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2830 times:

If the police has not been involved I doubt anything bad can happen.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

I'll sit in for Klaus:

You must immediately find that Mother and apologize to her for manhandling her son! You must then pay for her son's college tuition because you traumatized him with your aggressive behavior and must make restitution for your right winged evil ways!

And as a reminder to keep your non-PC evil ways to your self you must go out on a date with a drag queen!



[Edited 2012-09-25 23:27:10]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2640 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 11):
I'll sit in for Klaus:

You must immediately find that Mother and apologize to her for manhandling her son! You must then pay for her son's college tuition because you traumatized him with your aggressive behavior and must make restitution for your right winged evil ways!

And as a reminder to keep your non-PC evil ways to your self you must go out on a date with a drag queen!

Whatever you're smoking, stop using it. And then show me any posts of mine even remotely matching that weird imagination.

Talking about "gone nuts".,.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7819 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2607 times:

Quoting aa757first (Reply 9):
If you haven't, you should right away if there's any indication of an injury. Did anyone else see the blood on the ground?

We didn't take any photos of my son's lip because we didn't know that there was a problem until 5 days later. Another mother saw Nicholas bleeding, so that's covered.


User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 7):
most parents of asshole children are pretty blind (willfully or not) to the fact that their children are pests.

Which is why the kids are that way.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Whatever you're smoking, stop using it.

Or start sharing it.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 13):
Another mother saw Nicholas bleeding, so that's covered.

That plus the lack of any marks on the kid you allegedly 'strangled' should put you in the clear. Good luck!

There was a day when the word of an adult would trump a child's, but because of the Jerry Sanduskies and molester priests of the world it is long gone. It is what it is I guess.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
Quoting type-rated (Reply 11):
I'll sit in for Klaus:

You must immediately find that Mother and apologize to her for manhandling her son! You must then pay for her son's college tuition because you traumatized him with your aggressive behavior and must make restitution for your right winged evil ways!

And as a reminder to keep your non-PC evil ways to your self you must go out on a date with a drag queen!

Whatever you're smoking, stop using it. And then show me any posts of mine even remotely matching that weird imagination.

Talking about "gone nuts".,.

Nope. Klaus´s way would be "To atone for your sins go forth and buy an Apple computer!"  

Jan


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21521 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 15):
Klaus´s way would be "To atone for your sins go forth and buy an Apple computer!"

Yawn.   


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5772 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2529 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
why would I strangle a kid for no reason at all?

Maybe because you are one of those creepy foreigners?   (Kidding! Really!)

Also do be ready to

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 14):
There was a day when the word of an adult would trump a child's, but because of the Jerry Sanduskies and molester priests of the world it is long gone. It is what it is I guess.

Yes, it is sad but true that adults lie as much and as bad as kids (not implying or saying that Rob is).

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2466 times:

My word. I know we might like to try and lighten the mood but seriously, some things are just not worth joking over. I can totally see how freaked out you must be, and it truly is a diabolical situation to be in when accused of something so random, particularly when all you did was what any good parent would do - protect your own child from harm.

Thinking rationally, if you tell the truth and stick to that, things should be fine. One word against another, over a kids' fight. It will be ok.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1350 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2439 times:

Think of things another way:
- Potential Scenario A: You do nothing, the other kid hits your son harder, causing a more serious injury.
- Potential Scenario B: You do nothing, your son hits back and i) gets seen by someone else and gets in trouble and/or ii) injures the other kid and gets into trouble.

It seems (to me) that this is one of those situations where there is a bad consequence if you do and a bad one if you don't.

I would think that you shouldn't be in any substantial trouble, as long as you didn't use excessive force when removing the other kid.

Quoting KiwiRob (Thread starter):
what makes this even worse is that the child's mother works for social welfare and has apparently started proceedings against me as an unfit parent.

You could no-doubt get her into plenty of trouble if you can prove that she has abused her position/power. (not saying you should).



First to fly on the Boeing 787-9 with Air New Zealand and ZK-NZE; NZ103, AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

Understandably a worrying situation. I am not sure that we can all rush to support the view that one boy is a bully because he apparently went a bit far. None of us saw the incident or what led up to it. Sure, children will lie to get themselves out of a tricky situation, but do we know for a fact that the other boy's mother is blind to his behaviour? Have any of us met her or the boy? If the facts are as stated - and remember we are only getting one side of the story - then it is to be hoped that the committee will see that things are resolved without adversely affecting KiwiRob and, more importantly, his son.

I only have one concern:
Quoting KiwiRob (Thread starter):
I was already pretty mad over a previous incident

There was something undescribed that happened earlier. Was this sufficient for you to briefly and uninitentionally lose it? That's the bit that sets the alarm bells ringing.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7819 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

And the update, the committee has decided that it can do nothing, apparently there were no witnesses as I suspected, it's just my word v the kids, my son was also there as well. But they caved in to the demands of the mother and have decided to pass the information on to the police, now hopefully I can say talk to a sensible cop tell him my side of the story and it can all go away, I just can't believe the trouble a person can get into defending their child, but if I had to do it again I would, it's expected of a parent IMO.

The earlier incident was another mother accusing my son of hitting another child when the oposing teams were giving each other high 5's at the end of the first game. My wife and I know our son very well, he wrestles and shoves but never and I really do mean never ever hits, his little brother hits and I would have agreed with the women had she accused Christopher of something like this but not Nicholas, I actually suspect that the kid who did the nhitting was the one that hit my son later on, but I have no way of prooving this.


User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2340 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
can do nothing

so back to throttling kids?  
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
sensible cop

oops might want to hold off until the investigation is over


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7819 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

Quoting mad99 (Reply 22):
so back to throttling kids?
Quoting mad99 (Reply 22):
oops might want to hold off until the investigation is over

Since I didn't throttel the kid and nobody was hospitalised I can't see why the police would want to waste their time on something so daft, had the shoe been on the other foot and my son had done the hitting I would have supported the other parents actions in pulling him away from the kid he hit, this ladies reaction is IMO abnormal and makes no sense.


User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

just a joke!

i looked online for a pic to add but didn't see one. Should have looked for Bart S....


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9541 posts, RR: 42
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
The earlier incident was another mother accusing my son of hitting another child when the oposing teams were giving each other high 5's at the end of the first game

Hmm... high sixes are probably safer for diffusing any existing tensions...

High Six

Seriously though, it's incredible that things got to where they are. Good luck.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21857 posts, RR: 55
Reply 26, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2346 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
But they caved in to the demands of the mother and have decided to pass the information on to the police

   This is the CYA mentality taken too far. If the committee didn't see any evidence, they should have the balls to stand behind that. Just deciding to pass the responsibility down the line is ridiculous.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 27, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21):
The earlier incident was another mother accusing my son of hitting another child when the oposing teams were giving each other high 5's at the end of the first game. My wife and I know our son very well, he wrestles and shoves but never and I really do mean never ever hits, his little brother hits and I would have agreed with the women had she accused Christopher of something like this but not Nicholas, I actually suspect that the kid who did the nhitting was the one that hit my son later on, but I have no way of prooving this.

Um not to play devil's advocate, but didn't you just accuse the mother of not believing her son would do sometime violent, but now you're saying that your son wouldn't resort to violence??



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7819 posts, RR: 5
Reply 28, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 27):
Um not to play devil's advocate, but didn't you just accuse the mother of not believing her son would do sometime violent, but now you're saying that your son wouldn't resort to violence??

It was pretty obvious what her son did to mine, he was bleading from the mouth and I saw it happen, I will stand by what I said my son is not a hitter, he's really not that kind of kid, his younger brother is, he's tough and has a mean streak.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6924 posts, RR: 12
Reply 29, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 27):
Um not to play devil's advocate, but didn't you just accuse the mother of not believing her son would do sometime violent, but now you're saying that your son wouldn't resort to violence??

Well, you're forgetting that he did see his son getting hit and didn't contact the police over it, so even if both children are equally culpable of the fight, their parents aren't reacting the same way.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5533 posts, RR: 13
Reply 30, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2251 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Thread starter):
what makes this even worse is that the child's mother works for social welfare and has apparently started proceedings against me as an unfit parent. My wife is understandably upset.

Oh boy, a government drone. Watch out with them. Sorry for the generalization but more often it's true.
Best of luck. Today, our society wherever it may be has an extreme case of CSDD,/b> Common Sense Deficit disorder.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 31, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2219 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 29):
and didn't contact the police over it

The reason the police is involved is not because one boy hit another but because it is alleged that a full grown man assaulted a boy. Slight difference.

As to the first incident, which was apparently witnessed by another woman, did KiwiRob witness that event? Can he say that his son did not hit the first boy because he saw the incident or is he only saying it because "he is really not that kind of kid"? If KiwiRob did not see the first incident then he is in exactly the same position as the mother of the second boy, if she is indeed denying that her son would hit another. That hasn't been made clear, all that is clear is that there is an allegation of "strangling".

One person's word against another with a major difference that in the first event the woman did not intervene but merely reported what she allegedly saw, while in the second an intervention was made. It is that intervention that is the subject of investigation.

How similar are the two boys in appearance? Perhaps the first woman can be called to see if she is willing to identify the second boy to see if he was actually the boy involved in the first event. If it turns out that he was, it would strengthen KiwiRob's case for intervention and show that the other boy has a pattern of violent behaviour.


User currently offlineYokoTsuno From Singapore, joined Feb 2011, 348 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2200 times:

This reminds me about this thread.

Indian Toddlers Under Child Protection In Norway (by YokoTsuno Jan 26 2012 in Non Aviation)

Oooh, I love those days when I was a kid and rascal. When I "terrorised" the neighbourhood my mother, my teacher or the neighbours gave me a good spanking and everything was forgotten. Nowadays if your son stares in an odd way to somebody else you get a social worker or psychologist knocking on your door to tell you that your son might develop into a serial killer.

Times have changed


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