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The NFL Referee Lockout Must End!  
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Posted (2 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

If you're a fan of the NFL, even a casual one, you've seen some pretty bizarre calls made by the replacement refs (hereinafter referred to as "fake refs"). We've seen completely bogus pass interference calls made. We've seen pass interference calls made when no contact was made. We've seen teams given extra timeouts. We've seen games stop for minutes so that the fake refs can figure out what is supposed to be going on. Yet despite all of that, you couldn't point to a game that the fake refs legitimately blew.

Well, now you can. The way tonight's Packers/Seahawks game ended is a disgrace to the league, and to the game in general. All you needed to see was two fake refs, standing not five feet from each other, making two different calls on the same play. How one of them could look at Tate and Jennings on the ground, see that Jennings had two hands on the ball and Tate had one, and then say that Tate had possession is beyond me. Especially when the guy standing right next to him was signaling an interception. Never mind that they never called Tate for interference basically pushing a guy out of the end zone.

This needs to end, and it needs to end now. You can't have fake refs blowing games in a league where one game determines who makes the playoffs and who doesn't. The NFL is making money hand over foot, they can afford to pay the proper officials what they deserve for being the best at what they do. You cannot have a game played by professionals officiated by amateurs.

Help us, Ed Hochuli. You're our only hope.   

-Mir


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
108 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10048 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4190 times:
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Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
(hereinafter referred to as "fake refs")

I call them "refs" (with quotes).

I was rooting for the Seahawks, but that is no way to win. Certainly no way to lose for the Packers.

The Packers won the game 3 times:

1.) Terrible roughing the passer call resulting in a Seattle first down.
2.) Terrible defensive interference call resulting in a Seattle first down.
3.) Terrible doesn't even begin to describe the touchdown call. It was so bad, that the only word I can come up with is, quite simply, "wrong". And yeah, one of the most blatant offensive interferences ever. RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE OFFICIAL.

There were a whole bunch of terrible calls in the Pats-Ravens game yesterday, too. And while the "refs" didn't decide that game (the bad calls seemed pretty evenly split), it contributes to the complete chaos of the game.

They may as well call every game a tie, and credit the wins to the "refs".



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4177 times:

It's an absolute joke, but Steve Young is right. We're all still watching.

Basically anything that the league says or does in regards to player safety from this time forward is a complete farce. Make this rule, fine that guy, but allow referees who are completely overmatched and do nothing to control the game.

But, based on what the Packers players are saying on Twitter, the NFL might make the money to pay the actual referees by the end of the week.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
I was rooting for the Seahawks

So was I, but even I can't defend that.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
1.) Terrible roughing the passer call resulting in a Seattle first down.

Very questionable, but not egregious. We've seen those calls before from the proper refs.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
2.) Terrible defensive interference call resulting in a Seattle first down.

Pretty egregious. Should have been offensive interference - the guy turned the defender's head around.

And then, of course, there's the final play disaster/debacle.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
They may as well call every game a tie, and credit the wins to the "refs".

If I were Mike McCarthy, I would not have sent my players back out for the extra point. Let them kick it with no defense as a show of protest of how the game ended. Let them declare a forfeit if they want to.

But I guess he's a bigger man than I.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4164 times:

By the way, the Lingerie Football League has finally come out and said that some of the replacement NFL referees were fired by their league, as has been rumored for some time.

http://deadspin.com/5946112/the-ling...in-the-nfl-because-of-incompetence



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

Its gotten pretty unbelievable the situation, sinking to using refs from the Lingerie Football League. I watched Pats Ravens, a few dodgy looking things but throwing and picking up flags seems ridiculous, then they need to confer and decide they messed up. I'm always impressed with the phenomenal calls that NFL refs usually get correct when commentators say no but the replay shows what happened.

This has to take the cake though.


Is anyone abreast of the issues of contention? From a quick wiki skim seems pension vs 401k, fulltime vs parttime positions, NFL wants more crews seems the crux of the issue with the NFL offering fairly generous pay increases.


User currently offlineIllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

Been a loyal Bears fan for years, but the Packers got screwed. This embarrassing display from the replacement refs is hurting the entire NFL and all of it's teams. I want to beat the Packers legitimately, not based off of completely garbage calls.

User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11678 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 5):
This has to take the cake though.

I do not care for football at all.

I do, but...

well...

this is a family board.

Point is: that screen shot looks like the Packers were clearly in control of the ball. In respose to a meme on FB, I simply posted "Aw, c'mon, ref!! His foot was clearly over the blue line! Home run for the Lakers!!"



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4157 times:

"This is comical to me...Two of the worst calls I've ever seen at the end of the game" - ESPN Analyst John Gruden



It makes me even more upset that Pete Carroll, Golden Tate, and the The Seattle Times newspaper are completely oblivious to the fact of how badly the Packers got hosed by the refs. They actually think it was a legit win that they deserved?! I have never seen a quarter of football dominated by refs with so many blown calls. I guess Russell Wilson is the first QB in NFL history to throw a interception and win the game!



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 5):
This has to take the cake though.


I'll say this much: at least one of them got it right. But whoever is wearing #26 needs to take a long, hard look at themselves and think about whether it might be better to consider a different line of work. One in which accurate vision isn't essential.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4146 times:

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 8):
"This is comical to me...Two of the worst calls I've ever seen at the end of the game" - ESPN Analyst John Gruden

And when Jon Gruden stops heaping praise on people, you know it's bad.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 7):
I do not care for football at all.
I do, but...
well...
this is a family board.

At least the NFL players having padding and faceguards, the poor blokes in rugby have to go home and explain the mrs what happened on the field.

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
But whoever is wearing #26 needs to take a long, hard look at themselves

Perhaps he's a Seahawk fan getting hi fived by his buddies, just has his Facebook on private unlike the guy who was disqualified from the Saints game after they saw his Facebook.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 937 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

That one call was a sad, sad night for football indeed.


PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10048 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4088 times:
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Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 8):
It makes me even more upset that Pete Carroll, Golden Tate, and the The Seattle Times newspaper are completely oblivious to the fact of how badly the Packers got hosed by the refs. They actually think it was a legit win that they deserved?!

Dude, they're not oblivious. They know. But they're not dumb enough to come out and say, "yeah, we lost that game, but got really lucky because of terrible refs", and possibly give the NFL (more of) a reason to review that game end.

They'll just say "yay, we won" and move on to next week.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
If I were Mike McCarthy, I would not have sent my players back out for the extra point. Let them kick it with no defense as a show of protest of how the game ended. Let them declare a forfeit if they want to.

I actually stopped watching a minute after the interception, so I didn't know they actually kicked the extra point until I saw the final score online. I figured they would refuse to come back on the field. And I would have supported that.

And I hate the Packers.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4071 times:

Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
Help us, Ed Hochuli. You're our only hope.   

Ed is the man! I also like that one tough-looking black ref, though I don't know his name yet.

In a way I feel bad for the replacement refs...they probably figured they were doing a good deed by keeping football going this season but now they probably can't even show their faces in public.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 week ago) and read 4059 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 13):
Dude, they're not oblivious. They know. But they're not dumb enough to come out and say, "yeah, we lost that game, but got really lucky because of terrible refs", and possibly give the NFL (more of) a reason to review that game end.

They'll just say "yay, we won" and move on to next week.

I don't know the circumstances in which he said it, but Pete Carroll did say that it's time for the regular refs to come back. So I'll give him credit for that much.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 week ago) and read 4046 times:

Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
This needs to end, and it needs to end now. You can't have fake refs blowing games in a league where one game determines who makes the playoffs and who doesn't. The NFL is making money hand over foot, they can afford to pay the proper officials what they deserve for being the best at what they do. You cannot have a game played by professionals officiated by amateurs.

If NFL fans for a few weeks don't watch or buy tickets then it will end in a heartbeat. Whether or not the league can afford to meet the proposal for the refs which they can is not relevant.

We need to boycott the NFL, however I want to watch games more to see how the mess up  .

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
It's an absolute joke, but Steve Young is right. We're all still watching.

  



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 week ago) and read 4042 times:

Quoting Mir (Thread starter):
Never mind that they never called Tate for interference basically pushing a guy out of the end zone.

And didn't have the testicular fortitude to reverse themselves after watching the replays. It doubles their shame.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
There were a whole bunch of terrible calls in the Pats-Ravens game yesterday, too. And while the "refs" didn't decide that game (the bad calls seemed pretty evenly split), it contributes to the complete chaos of the game.

The game was memorable for the most full-throated chorus of "bullsh*t" ever heard on US television. Micheals and Collingsworth sat silently for most of it, to make sure the message got through.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
Basically anything that the league says or does in regards to player safety from this time forward is a complete farce. Make this rule, fine that guy, but allow referees who are completely overmatched and do nothing to control the game.

Uhm, no, the NFL's greed in nickel and diming the refs, which is asinine, does not render farcical all the things it's done to promote player safety.

Thanks again for the trip to The Outer Limits.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11383 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 8):
It makes me even more upset that Pete Carroll, Golden Tate, and the The Seattle Times newspaper are completely oblivious to the fact of how badly the Packers got hosed by the refs. They actually think it was a legit win that they deserved?!

You have to understand though: people in Seattle believe they are owed bad calls to them based on what happened to them in Superbowl XL.

YES!! They are still complaining about that.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

Yes, and i am one of them. Seattle lost that superbowl because of the refs being in pittsburg pocket.

I was actually shocked that seattle just had a bad call go for them. Still
I would have prefered a cleaner win to show the dominance of the resurgent Seahawks.

But at the end pf the season a W is going to count as a W no matter who was refereeing the game



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3951 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 18):
You have to understand though: people in Seattle believe they are owed bad calls to them based on what happened to them in Superbowl XL.

YES!! They are still complaining about that.

The right thing to do, immediately, is to award Green Bay the game, because it's 100% clear how the game really ended.

Can you imagine the uproar in Seattle if that happened?

Apparently there is some sort of written statement to be issued by the NFL shortly.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3937 times:

Thet arent going to change the outcome of the game. It would create a big problem with every other team that thinks they go hosed by the scabs tring to get their games changes Bill complaining about the Ravens win the night before being one that could get interesting.

The league will say the score stands snd hope it dies diwn by next weekend



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 21):
Thet arent going to change the outcome of the game. It would create a big problem with every other team that thinks they go hosed by the scabs tring to get their games changes

I can only imagine the impact of a reversal on the betting world...


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3928 times:

Yup.

Still it is nice for Seattle to be on the right side of a questionable call for once. Apparently the scabs didnt get the memo about holding them back.

It is also fun watching all the Velveeta heads complaing and melting down. A Green Bay fondue.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11383 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3921 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 19):
Seattle lost that superbowl because of the refs being in pittsburg pocket.

 

Case in point.

Seattle lost because they were outplayed. But let's get back to NFL 2012.


Actually, real question: will Madden 2012 have random referee calls go against what actually happened? That would be awesome.  



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User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 25, posted (2 years 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3972 times:

Thats your opinion DLX, doest mesn the words , "Rothesberger Sacked" will ever stop being funny


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 26, posted (2 years 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3976 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 18):
You have to understand though: people in Seattle believe they are owed bad calls to them based on what happened to them in Superbowl XL.

Which is ridiculous. Nothing in that Super Bowl compares to how egregiously bad this call was. You want to say that the pass interference call on that drive was payback, I might consider it - that play's done at speed, I can see how someone might blow a call in the heat of the moment. But you can't look at QFA380's picture and say that there is any justification for two officials looking at something for several seconds, arriving at two different conclusions, having the wrong one take precedence, and then refusing to overturn it when they see the replay.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 27, posted (2 years 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

I think the cheese heads need to consider that if Green Bay's offensive line had shown up for the game it might not have come down to the last call


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 28, posted (2 years 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3945 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 27):
I think the cheese heads need to consider that if Green Bay's offensive line had shown up for the game it might not have come down to the last call

You could say the exact same thing about the Seattle-Pittsburgh game you were whining about. What happened before the horrible call(s) doesn't matter, what does matter is that these refs made an unfathomably bad call, even after review.

Not a Green Bay fan by the way, just making a very obvious observation.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 29, posted (2 years 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3937 times:

You realize that if the call went the other way we would be talking about hiw poirly the packers play. Rodgers goibg to thr turf eight times in the first half.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 30, posted (2 years 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 29):
You realize that if the call went the other way we would be talking about hiw poirly the packers play. Rodgers goibg to thr turf eight times in the first half.

I do, which is something that was entirely within the control of the Packers. The reffing is completely out of the control of both teams, which is why it's being discussed so widely today.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 31, posted (2 years 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
Uhm, no, the NFL's greed in nickel and diming the refs, which is asinine, does not render farcical all the things it's done to promote player safety.

Yes it does. The players are taking advantage of the substitute teachers to engage in illegal hits and extracurricular activities. You see dangerous hits that should be penalized, like the one that knocked Darius Heyward-Bey out cold, going unnoticed, yet it isn't enough to get the league to call off the lockout because it's dangerous for players.

Quoting D L X (Reply 24):
Actually, real question: will Madden 2012 have random referee calls go against what actually happened? That would be awesome.

I'd love that, but I think the NFL would flip their shit.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2536 posts, RR: 7
Reply 32, posted (2 years 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3920 times:

Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 6):
Been a loyal Bears fan for years, but the Packers got screwed. This embarrassing display from the replacement refs is hurting the entire NFL and all of it's teams.

Right with you here - I always hope for GB to go 0-16 every year, but this was just silly. The entire NFL week 3 was an officiating disaster, this was the cherry on top of the sundae. One thing I'd like to mention is that the Pack never would have had their only TD if not for a B.S. pass interference call that kept the drive alive. It pales in comparison to the end-of-game fiasco but the bad officiating cuts both ways.


User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

"The Seahawks were outplayed???!!!" Right....9 sacks!!! This would not be an issue if the score was was not 7-6 at the half or the game decided in THE LAST 8 SECONDS!!!..Oh yeah, the mighty great GB Packers out played us!!!

Read it and weep:

The NFL has released a statement regarding the final play from scrimmage in Monday's game.

The league stated that Golden Tate should have been penalized for pass interference, but said that the replay review of the game was both allowed under the rules and -- in the league's opinion -- correct in not overturning the play as it was called on the field.

Here's the statement from the league:

"In Monday's game between the Green Bay Packers and Seattle Seahawks, Seattle faced a 4th-and-10 from the Green Bay 24 with eight seconds remaining in the game.

"Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson threw a pass into the end zone. Several players, including Seattle wide receiver Golden Tate and Green Bay safety M.D. Jennings, jumped into the air in an attempt to catch the ball.

"While the ball is in the air, Tate can be seen shoving Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields to the ground. This should have been a penalty for offensive pass interference, which would have ended the game. It was not called and is not reviewable in instant replay.

"When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball. Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player. The result of the play was a touchdown.

"Replay official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.

"Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.

"The result of the game is final."



Carpe Pices
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8299 posts, RR: 8
Reply 34, posted (2 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

This problem could be solved in a matter of hours IF the owners pushed for a settlement.

My bet is that they will not be willing to spend the money to get the pros on the field, regardless of how small a percentage ofhte annual budgets it is.

I certainly don't blame the refs that are on the field now. If those college refs refused to go on the field we would be down to high school refs.

Right now all we can hope for is an effort to do a decent job (which I think we have - the effort) and consistent calling of various infractions, like holding.

That;s as good as it is going to get until the owners get committed to delivering a solution. And all that takes is a conference call of the owners.


User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10048 posts, RR: 26
Reply 35, posted (2 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3843 times:
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Quoting bhill (Reply 33):
"The Seahawks were outplayed???!!!" Right....9 sacks!!! This would not be an issue if the score was was not 7-6 at the half or the game decided in THE LAST 8 SECONDS!!!..Oh yeah, the mighty great GB Packers out played us!!!

What's your point? The Seahawks didn't outplay the Packers either. Seahawks had a good 1st half, GB had a good 2nd half.

So basically, you're saying that you don't care how many terrible calls there are as long as the Seahawks win?

That's too bad.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1779 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 24):
Actually, real question: will Madden 2012 have random referee calls go against what actually happened? That would be awesome.

That would be hilarious. LOL.


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4820 posts, RR: 26
Reply 37, posted (2 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3823 times:
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As bad as the Packers played in the first half, Seattle still went to halftime with only 7 points. You can make many arguments about how either team shouldn't have come down to that last throw for the win. But that's silly. What happened, happened.

It's a catch 22 with these "fake refs". On one hand, they are the very reason we get to watch football right now. They are the reason our teams get to play. But on the other hand, the season is tainted with these bad calls.



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User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (2 years 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3824 times:

GB had a good 2nd half? Really? It was SOOOOO good the game had to be decided in the last 8 seconds...Seems to me if the Packers are so great and mighty, they would have sewn this up MUCH sooner than the last 8 seconds. You folks should watch the other football more often, we live this shit almost every match......


Carpe Pices
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 39, posted (2 years 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

Quoting bhill (Reply 33):
The league stated that Golden Tate should have been penalized for pass interference, but said that the replay review of the game was both allowed under the rules and -- in the league's opinion -- correct in not overturning the play as it was called on the field.

Yeah, cause it's not like the NFL is going to try to cover their asses or anything...  
Quoting bhill (Reply 33):
"While the ball is in the air, Tate can be seen shoving Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields to the ground. This should have been a penalty for offensive pass interference, which would have ended the game. It was not called and is not reviewable in instant replay.

"When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball. Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player. The result of the play was a touchdown.

I like how the NFL leaves out the part in between the shove and when the players hit the ground.

If you go and review the video, it shows Jennings with clear possession of ball (two hands firm on the ball) while Tate only has one hand touching the ball until they go to ground, at which point Tate then tries to rip the ball from Jennings. Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3, Item 5 of the NFL Rule Book actually discusses this situation:

"It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control."

Quoting bhill (Reply 33):
Oh yeah, the mighty great GB Packers out played us!!!

This line here (with my emphasis added) shows that's it's going to be impossible for you to be impartial in this discussion.

Quoting bhill (Reply 33):
"The result of the game is final."

I really wasn't hoping they would overturn it. The game was final when the refs made that brutal call whether it was wrong or not. I was just hoping that the NFL would have the fortitude to admit they've screwed up pretty badly.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 40, posted (2 years 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

Three weeks of regular season play and these replacement refs are still causing a lot of controversy. If not for their questionable/bad calls, it's for stuff like the one official who was removed from the officiating crew for the Saints game last week after having photos of himself in Saints stuff along with pro-Saints comments posted online. You have the ref this week whose threw their hat into the end zone during a play in the Dallas-Tampa Bay game and a Dallas player slipped on the hat. There's been reports of refs of telling players to play well because they had them on their fantasy team. I think the title of the following Forbes article sums it up best:

NFL Replacement Referees Have Compromised The Game's Integrity And League's Position On Sports Betting

You have to wonder if perhaps there may be something not above board that the NFL is doing in order to drive down legal betting on NFL games. The NFL is no fan of legal sports betting on their games and would like to have legal betting on NFL games banned completely. It may be because the NFL sees a lot of betting action in Las Vegas and the league gets nothing from it. The NFL (along with the NCAA, the NHL, the NBA and MLB) have filed a lawsuit against the Governor of New Jersey, the Assistant Attorney General of New Jersey as well as the Executive Director of the N.J. Racing Commission because the state's attempt to have legal sports betting. A New Jersey state legislator has fired a salvo by introducing a bill that would ban the replacement refs from working games in New Jersey.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt...l1e8kpanl-20120925,0,7222869.story

With the players and coaches being quite critical of the replacement refs, why don't the teams refuse to take the field citing personal safety concerns? If the teams don't play, that puts more heat on the NFL to bring the regular officials back.

There's a bunch of NHL refs not doing anything right now, perhaps they ought to be used...   


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4636 posts, RR: 2
Reply 41, posted (2 years 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3779 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 40):
There's a bunch of NHL refs not doing anything right now, perhaps they ought to be used...

I like this solution.  
Would be fun to see. Checking, 2 minute penalties. Icing on deep passes. Could be fun.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 42, posted (2 years 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3776 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 40):
You have to wonder if perhaps there may be something not above board that the NFL is doing in order to drive down legal betting on NFL games. The NFL is no fan of legal sports betting on their games and would like to have legal betting on NFL games banned completely.

The NFL publicly condemns betting, but privately they love it. They know it drives a ton of interest and viewership for their leagues and tacitly enable and aid it. Why do you think the NFL has strict protocols for injury reports?

Quoting srbmod (Reply 40):
With the players and coaches being quite critical of the replacement refs, why don't the teams refuse to take the field citing personal safety concerns?

Then they would lose money as well. Furthermore, it's only fair considering that the referees went ahead and worked the replacements' games during the 1982 players strike.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2536 posts, RR: 7
Reply 43, posted (2 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

Quoting bhill (Reply 38):
GB had a good 2nd half? Really? It was SOOOOO good the game had to be decided in the last 8 seconds...Seems to me if the Packers are so great and mighty, they would have sewn this up MUCH sooner than the last 8 seconds.

Yep - if they'd have been able to get a first down on their final possession, they would have run out the clock. Did the get hosed on that last call? Sure they did, but they have no further to look for blame than their mirror. Get one lousy first down and that play never happens.


User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10048 posts, RR: 26
Reply 44, posted (2 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3736 times:
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Quoting bhill (Reply 38):
GB had a good 2nd half? Really? It was SOOOOO good the game had to be decided in the last 8 seconds...Seems to me if the Packers are so great and mighty, they would have sewn this up MUCH sooner than the last 8 seconds. You folks should watch the other football more often, we live this shit almost every match......

Ha, when did I say the Packers were great and mighty? Clearly you don't read, or you'd know I was rooting for the Seahawks. I hate the Packers.

Anyway, you answered my other question without intending to:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 35):
So basically, you're saying that you don't care how many terrible calls there are as long as the Seahawks win?

So thanks.

(PS if the Seahawks are so great and mighty, one might think the game wouldn't be decided on the last play....after they couldn't maintain their level of play in the 2nd half. That's something to consider: Seattle got worse while GB got better)



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 45, posted (2 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

There is an article on Durge that estimates that $150 to 300m in bets where dependent on the outcome. One estimate had it as high as a billion.

You can get a lot of smoked wisconsin cheddar for that dough



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 46, posted (2 years 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3695 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 42):
Furthermore, it's only fair considering that the referees went ahead and worked the replacements' games during the 1982 players strike.

There weren't any NFL games during the 1982 strike. The replacement players were during the 1987 strike.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 42):
The NFL publicly condemns betting, but privately they love it. They know it drives a ton of interest and viewership for their leagues and tacitly enable and aid it. Why do you think the NFL has strict protocols for injury reports?

It should be interesting to see what the ultimate outcome of New Jersey's attempt to introduce sports betting since the four major pro sports leagues as well as the NCAA are trying to stop them (Even though the Federal law passed in 1992 prevents them from introducing it since the loophole created for them when the law was written had an expiration date of 1/1/94 and New Jersey did not introduce sports betting when they had the chance.).


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 47, posted (2 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

I 'bet' there will be huge pressure by the sports books in Vegas on the NFL to get the regular refs back. Setting lines has become very difficult, too many players getting hurt, bad calls, with the instability, some big gamblers may pull some of their betting meaning Vegas books losing big bucks.

User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 48, posted (2 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3596 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 31):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
Uhm, no, the NFL's greed in nickel and diming the refs, which is asinine, does not render farcical all the things it's done to promote player safety.

Yes it does. The players are taking advantage of the substitute teachers to engage in illegal hits and extracurricular activities. You see dangerous hits that should be penalized, like the one that knocked Darius Heyward-Bey out cold, going unnoticed, yet it isn't enough to get the league to call off the lockout because it's dangerous for players.

Ok, so how does this situation render farcical the rules put in place, let's say, for defenseless receivers in order to reduce the chance of concussions?

Quoting bhill (Reply 33):
The league stated that Golden Tate should have been penalized for pass interference, but said that the replay review of the game was both allowed under the rules and -- in the league's opinion -- correct in not overturning the play as it was called on the field.

Here's the statement from the league:

No need to read it, we know it's a whitewash.

Quoting bhill (Reply 33):
Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review.

Yet almost everyone watching the game feels the defensive player had possession, not the offensive player.

Total whitewash.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 49, posted (2 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 48):
Ok, so how does this situation render farcical the rules put in place, let's say, for defenseless receivers in order to reduce the chance of concussions?

The rules aren't being enforced. Illegal hits are going unnoticed and guys are practically throwing punches after plays and the substitute teachers won't throw a flag. The NFLPA has raised the issue themselves.

The NFL says they care about player safety, put in place new rules and come down hard on the Saints but then allow incompetent officials who are not up to the task of keeping the game safe(r) over a sum of something like $150k per team. It's clear what the priorities are, but I doubt that will stop the NFL from lying to us about it in the future.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinecorocks From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3527 times:

While it is clear that the replacement refs are well over their heads, I still support the owners to some extent on this one. Some of the refs demands are just ridiculous:

1) This is a part time job for almost all of them and they make $150k a year. That is more than probably 95% of America. I have seen some reports that they are asking for as much as a 50% increase in pay. I don't care how good you are at your job - you did not do anything in the last year to increase your pay by 50%. It does not matter how much the NFL makes, it is a matter of principle.

2) Most importantly, the refs are rejecting a plan that penalizes them for poor performance. They want all this extra money, but don't want to be held accountable when they screw up.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 49):
The rules aren't being enforced. Illegal hits are going unnoticed and guys are practically throwing punches after plays and the substitute teachers won't throw a flag. The NFLPA has raised the issue themselves.
Quoting Revelation (Reply 48):
Yes it does. The players are taking advantage of the substitute teachers to engage in illegal hits and extracurricular activities. You see dangerous hits that should be penalized, like the one that knocked Darius Heyward-Bey out cold, going unnoticed, yet it isn't enough to get the league to call off the lockout because it's dangerous for players.

All this talk about replacement refs affecting player safety is garbage. All refs can do is throw a flag after it has already happened. The real penalty hits their pocketbooks after the fact such as with Joe May's hit on Matt Schaub this weekend. Players are going to do it regardless of what refs are in there. If the NFLPA wants to address the issue of player safety, maybe they should tell their members to stop making illegal hits - duh.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 51, posted (2 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3521 times:

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
All this talk about replacement refs affecting player safety is garbage.

Except that it isn't. The fine/suspension mechanisms are unaffected by the referee lockout, and yet games are descending into virtual anarchy on a regular basis. The replacements are completely overmatched and the players know it, so they take advantage.

Hell you have players out on Twitter basically begging to get fined.

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
Players are going to do it regardless of what refs are in there.

Then why have we not seen it before as much? Why are guys pushing and shoving each other after almost every play in more than one game?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 52, posted (2 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 40):
There's a bunch of NHL refs not doing anything right now, perhaps they ought to be used...  

They get paid way too much for the NFL's taste  .

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
This is a part time job for almost all of them and they make $150k a year. That is more than probably 95% of America. I have seen some reports that they are asking for as much as a 50% increase in pay. I don't care how good you are at your job - you did not do anything in the last year to increase your pay by 50%. It does not matter how much the NFL makes, it is a matter of principle.

All fair points if true, I haven't heard anything regarding a pay raise of 50% butI have read the biggest issue is regarding the pension system.

Where I think the refs have a bit of leverage is that most of them have other careers as it is a part time job and provided most of the refs can keep their other jobs during the lockout they aren't desperate for the NFL paycheck.

Most of the pressure this week is coming from the coaches, the media and the NFLPA to continue talks with the refs.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offline3DoorsDown From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (2 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 1):
I was rooting for the Seahawks, but that is no way to win.

I disagree. It was a win no matter how. I am sure if the tables were turned and the receiver was a Packer and the defender a Seahawk, the Packers would not have jumped up and said; oh hell no we can't take that win. Seahawks intercepted, so they win. Of course the Hawks would be smart enough to bat the ball down instead of wasting the effort to catch it. As i said on another site. The Hawks didn't screw the pack, the refs didn't screw the pack, Goodell and the penny pinching tight wad owners screwed the pack and the rest of the NFL.


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4024 posts, RR: 28
Reply 54, posted (2 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3484 times:

Not sure I understand what is going on, and what people are going on about... isn't the whole purpose of the NFL to punish success and reward mediocrity with revenue sharing, salary caps, a draft system, etc.? Well, consider this just another step of that process. "You didn't intercept that".


Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 5
Reply 55, posted (2 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3474 times:

Aaron Rodgers pretty much tore apart the NFL's response to how the end of the game was handeled:

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/171216511.html

After reading the part in the statement that said Seattle's Golden Tate shoved Packers cornerback Sam Shields and that Tate should have been called for offensive pass interference, Rodgers said: "So they admit that the guy totally blows the call on pass interference."

The statement reads further: "When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and (M.D.) Jennings had possession of the ball." Rodgers said: "I call bull on that because they say 'officials.' There was zero communication between them. There was zero communication between the guy who was responsible for the first-and-25 phantom pass interference call on Sam Shields. The other referee was responsible for calling an off-setting personal foul against Greg Jennings for one-hand pushing Brandon Browner, who had just punched him and thrown him to the ground. So those two guys have zero communication, zero eye contact. One of them is signaling over his head meaning the clock's stopped, game over, I'm about to signal touchback. And the other (guy), from who knows what angle as he's looking at M.D. on top of Golden Tate, and he's going to say that is a catch by the receiver. M.D. has the ball to his chest. . . . The association with the simultaneous rule is that who has the ball on their chest first. As the rule reads - which we all probably read it at some point in the last 24 hours - simultaneous possession does not exist when one person has the ball first and the other tries to put his hands on top of the ball, which is obviously what happened in that situation. Everybody saw it who saw the replay.

"But it's interesting the way the NFL words that - 'When the players hit the ground in end zone the officials determined that both Tate and Jennings had possession of the ball,' " Rodgers said. " 'Under the rule for simultaneous catch, the ball belongs to Tate, the offensive player.' That's garbage, obviously. . . . They are still covering their butt here."

Rodgers said the replay clearly showed enough indisputable visual evidence to overturn the touchdown call.

"I mean, come on, (referee) Wayne (Elliott)," Rodgers said. "That's embarrassing. This is the NFL here. They're saying they should have called pass interference, but they are saying that the refs got it right in the end zone. Unbelievable."


Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 6):
Been a loyal Bears fan for years, but the Packers got screwed. This embarrassing display from the replacement refs is hurting the entire NFL and all of it's teams. I want to beat the Packers legitimately, not based off of completely garbage calls.
Quoting ER757 (Reply 32):
I always hope for GB to go 0-16 every year, but this was just silly. The entire NFL week 3 was an officiating disaster, this was the cherry on top of the sundae.

Thanks for the sportsmanship. More than I can say for other Bears fans around here...

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 13):
Dude, they're not oblivious. They know. But they're not dumb enough to come out and say, "yeah, we lost that game, but got really lucky because of terrible refs", and possibly give the NFL (more of) a reason to review that game end.

I just don't like the fact the nobody over there is owning up to it whatsoever. Golden Tate won't even admit that he blatantly pushed Sam Shields out of the way, and then today Pete Carroll was still going around telling people it was simultaneous possession (even though everyone knows it wasn't).

Quoting bhill (Reply 33):
"The Seahawks were outplayed???!!!" Right....9 sacks!!! This would not be an issue if the score was was not 7-6 at the half or the game decided in THE LAST 8 SECONDS!!!..Oh yeah, the mighty great GB Packers out played us!!!

Russell Wilson's paltry stats would have been even worse without that game-ending gift touchdown and the phantom roughing-the-passer penalty that nullified a fourth-quarter interception. The Seahawks rarely threw downfield, and their offense did pretty much nothing all night.

[Edited 2012-09-26 01:33:41]


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 56, posted (2 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3450 times:

Several coaches have been fined for their anger toward the sub officials this week and last. Some like the Patriot's Belichick should be suspended for a game or two for their intimidation and touching officials but that won't happen. OTOH, I wish those coaches fined would put their fines into escrow instead of sending them now to the NFL and appeal them as we are in such a different situation right now and there is righteous objections with the substitute refs.

The current deadlock as to the regular officials needs both sides to get off their greedy stands. The average fan has no desire to support part-timers getting paid 4-5 times what they make in a year and getting pensions, they also don't like Billionaire owners trying to screw others to make more money. Perhaps both sides just ought to continue the present contract but also have a mechanism (or expand it) to push out the worst 10% of officials each year (most bad/blown calls, incorrect ball spots, etc).


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 57, posted (2 years 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3425 times:

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
1) This is a part time job for almost all of them and they make $150k a year.

The highest paid ref in the NFL makes $150k...the lowest makes $25k. During a broadcast on the weekend, they said that the average NFL ref makes the least out of all the major sports.

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
Players are going to do it regardless of what refs are in there.

Incorrect. When players know they can get away with something, they're more likely to take more dangerous hits, or play a little dirtier.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 54):
isn't the whole purpose of the NFL to punish success and reward mediocrity with revenue sharing, salary caps, a draft system, etc.?

The sports industry is unique in that you NEED healthy competition, which makes it unlike a typical business. Don't pretend that it's just football either; every major sports league operates the same way.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10048 posts, RR: 26
Reply 58, posted (2 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3407 times:
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Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
All this talk about replacement refs affecting player safety is garbage. All refs can do is throw a flag after it has already happened.

Well then we might as well get rid of refs altogether. What's the point, if there's no affect on player safety?

Quoting 3DoorsDown (Reply 53):
It was a win no matter how.

I'm aware, and didn't say otherwise. The fact that I think it's a bad way to win is not a reflection on Seattle; nor is it saying that they didn't win. It's not Seattle's fault.

Quoting 3DoorsDown (Reply 53):
I am sure if the tables were turned and the receiver was a Packer and the defender a Seahawk, the Packers would not have jumped up and said; oh hell no we can't take that win.

I didn't say Seattle should do that. In fact, I said quite the opposite:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 13):
Dude, they're not oblivious. They know. But they're not dumb enough to come out and say, "yeah, we lost that game, but got really lucky because of terrible refs", and possibly give the NFL (more of) a reason to review that game end.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (2 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3394 times:

http://allfacebook.com/files/2012/09/TouchdownCeltics.jpg

User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 60, posted (2 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

I want the actual referees back, yesterday. This is amateur hour. I can't be bothered with watching more games with these sorry excuses for referees, rules are bent and broken and victories are seemingly awarded at random.

I'm not watching another game until professional NFL-class referees are back on the field. If I wanted to watch the LFL or college amateur football, I would - but I don't.

The NFL is supposedly a professional world class league, but with these amateur referees it isn't any more. As a viewer I don't care for the finer points of salery/pension negotiations: just get it done.

The NFL is insulting its fans with this nonsense. Any team could have had this happen to them. I'm out until the actual referees are back.



Tonight we fly
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (2 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

I proudly present next weeks referees:



It can't be any worse.  


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 62, posted (2 years 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3380 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 60):
Any team could have had this happen to them. I'm out until the actual referees are back.

That's one point I've heard raised this morning that I hadn't considered: how lucky is the NFL that this happened to the Packers? What would it have been like had it been a team with a strong owner? Just think of the phone call Roger would get if Jerry Jones had been screwed out of a win by awful officiating.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 63, posted (2 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3376 times:

Quoting 3DoorsDown (Reply 53):
As i said on another site. The Hawks didn't screw the pack, the refs didn't screw the pack, Goodell and the penny pinching tight wad owners screwed the pack and the rest of the NFL.

As a Seahawks fan, I have to say that's very well said! With that in mind, everyone needs to stop bashing the Seahawks and the Packers. They didn't ask for this crap. Neither did the other 29 teams. Blame Goodell for all of this. He should be shown the door, and then elect a new commissioner.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 64, posted (2 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 54):
Not sure I understand what is going on, and what people are going on about... isn't the whole purpose of the NFL to punish success and reward mediocrity with revenue sharing, salary caps, a draft system, etc.? Well, consider this just another step of that process. "You didn't intercept that".

Socialism works in sports. It turns off the casual fan if the same team few teams win again and again because they have money, also without revenue sharing you would lose a lot of teams. What the NFL does works because they make $9 billion in revenue and if the had less than 32 teams they would have a lot less revenue.

Who would you advocate getting the first pick if not for the worst team?
There is an argument to remove the salary cap/floor and replace it with a soft cap where you pay a luxury tax for going over like in MLB.

As for the call Monday night it isn't about parity or redistribution, the refs stuffed up and there really wasn't any outstanding evidence to overturn the call because you couldn't see the ball from the half dozen angles it was shown.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 56):
I wish those coaches fined would put their fines into escrow instead of sending them now to the NFL and appeal them as we are in such a different situation right now and there is righteous objections with the substitute refs.

IIRC the fines go to charity, they don't go to the owners. If that were the case then anyone fined could simply get their money back.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 60):
I want the actual referees back, yesterday. This is amateur hour. I can't be bothered with watching more games with these sorry excuses for referees, rules are bent and broken and victories are seemingly awarded at random.

If even 10% of NFL fans do that this weekend the regular refs will be on the field by week 6 or 7. The only thing bringing the regular refs back or at the least talking is the loss of $$.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 57):
The sports industry is unique in that you NEED healthy competition, which makes it unlike a typical business. Don't pretend that it's just football either; every major sports league operates the same way.

Healthy competition is good in most businesses because it is a way to keep them all in check,but it shouldn't be legislated by government. Sports leagues do it internally to attempt to create a mutual benefit to the players and owners.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 65, posted (2 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3363 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 49):
The rules aren't being enforced. Illegal hits are going unnoticed and guys are practically throwing punches after plays and the substitute teachers won't throw a flag.

How does that make the rules themselves, and the process that has improved player safety via improved rules, farcical?

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
This is a part time job for almost all of them and they make $150k a year. That is more than probably 95% of America. I have seen some reports that they are asking for as much as a 50% increase in pay. I don't care how good you are at your job - you did not do anything in the last year to increase your pay by 50%. It does not matter how much the NFL makes, it is a matter of principle.

What principal is that, the rich get richer and the worker bees should just STFU?

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
Most importantly, the refs are rejecting a plan that penalizes them for poor performance. They want all this extra money, but don't want to be held accountable when they screw up.

Agreed there needs to be some process to weed out the bottom 10% or so on an ongoing basis.

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 55):
"When the players hit the ground in the end zone, the officials determined that both Tate and (M.D.) Jennings had possession of the ball." Rodgers said: "I call bull on that because they say 'officials.'

I call bull on it because there never was simultaneous possession. The refs should have seen that on the replay and reversed their call.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 56):
The average fan has no desire to support part-timers getting paid 4-5 times what they make in a year and getting pensions

This whole episode has shown that NFL refs really are world class at what they do.

NFL management didn't seem to understand it, now the whole world knows.

Some times it's best to shut up and wonder if you are ignorant rather than to speak up and let the world know.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 56):
Perhaps both sides just ought to continue the present contract but also have a mechanism (or expand it) to push out the worst 10% of officials each year (most bad/blown calls, incorrect ball spots, etc).

Not sure how to do this in a "fair" way. You can't normalize opportunity, meaning ref X can always claim s/he does better than ref Y because they had tougher calls to make.

Anything that is normalized, like a written test, is likely to be so fake as to not apply to real game situations.

I agree it should be done, but it's not as easy as it seems.

We could see a situation where the refs "work to rule" and call every ticky-tack infraction so they don't get pushed down in the ratings and out of a job.

To a degree I was seeing some of this being done by the replacement refs.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 60):
I'm not watching another game until professional NFL-class referees are back on the field.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 62):
Just think of the phone call Roger would get if Jerry Jones had been screwed out of a win by awful officiating.

ESPN is now reporting that an agreement is near. Hooray!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinehelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 66, posted (2 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Quoting bohica (Reply 61):
It can't be any worse.  

Better than this weeks

http://www.chrissembower.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/FlowersMagooPosterized.jpg


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 67, posted (2 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 65):
ESPN is now reporting that an agreement is near.

It's about damn time! This Seahawks play will now go down into the books that woke up Goodell and set him straight.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 68, posted (2 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 65):
I call bull on it because there never was simultaneous possession.

FWIW: NFL Rule Book: "It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control."



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8299 posts, RR: 8
Reply 69, posted (2 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 47):
I 'bet' there will be huge pressure by the sports books in Vegas on the NFL to get the regular refs back.

So let the guys in Vegas put pressure on the owners.

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
1) This is a part time job for almost all of them and they make $150k a year.

All of them?

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
It does not matter how much the NFL makes,

Of course it does. Works in all sports - the more profitable the sport the bigger the payouts.

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
Most importantly, the refs are rejecting a plan that penalizes them for poor performance.

Good refs call the best game they can. They will, however, blow a call now & then. Good reason for the instant replay..

If you start "fining" a ref for a mis-call you'll end up going back to the high school coaches making $1K a game.

Base issue - if you don't like a ref then fire him.

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
All refs can do is throw a flag after it has already happened.

And that little flag holds a lot of power. It can take back a touchdown, reverse a turnover, give someone a huge first down, or leave them with a huge 25 yards to make for another first down.

Players causing the foul often have a chat with coaches on the sidelines - especially when the foul turns out to be very costly.

That is how good refs control a game.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 56):
as we are in such a different situation right now and there is righteous objections with the substitute refs.

Object all they want - until the owners decide to solve the problem those subs will be on the field - all the way to the Super Bowl.

Until the focus goes totally to the owners you are going to get what you get today.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 57):
The highest paid ref in the NFL makes $150k...the lowest makes $25k.

$25K to keep the game well run & legal is pretty cheap. Especially when you consider that to be $25K for the season?

I can't blame the refs and wish them well. The owners can sell a few extra t-shirts & caps to make up the difference.

Maybe there is a need to pay each ref at the lowest pay for a professional player. That makes sense if you want quality refs.

Of course, if you are happy with what is on the field these days just keep things the way they are.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 58):
What's the point, if there's no affect on player safety?

As noted above, there is a lot of power in flags thrown. Refs also have to power to throw a player (or players) out of the game. Good refs can control games pretty well - unfortunately we have reached a point where those good refs need to be paid good money.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 70, posted (2 years 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3306 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 65):
How does that make the rules themselves, and the process that has improved player safety via improved rules, farcical?

The rules aren't being enforced. But more than that, the decision to go ahead and use replacement refs means that anytime the NFL says that player safety is their top priority is a lie. It's only a priority for the right price. I can live with that, but don't lie about it.

The NFL cannot admit that the replacement refs make the game more unsafe because the new CBA apparently has language in it prohibiting a dangerous environment, which the players could have conceivably used to stop the lockout had they not given up their right to decide that sort of thing in court.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 69):
All of them?

Yes they are. I want to say that the referees were pushing to make some of them full time and the NFL balked. That said, it's not like they just fly out on Saturday, go work the game, and then go home until the next week. Someone looked and apparently they have to be familiar with material that amounts to being longer than the New Testament.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 69):
Good refs call the best game they can. They will, however, blow a call now & then. Good reason for the instant replay..

I'm pretty sure that there is some sort of grading system for officials, which the NFL will of course not make public.

And I hate the people who hate instant replay. I don't care if it takes a bit longer, I want the call right.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 69):
Base issue - if you don't like a ref then fire him.

   Works in the Lingerie Football League.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 69):
And that little flag holds a lot of power. It can take back a touchdown, reverse a turnover, give someone a huge first down, or leave them with a huge 25 yards to make for another first down.

Players causing the foul often have a chat with coaches on the sidelines - especially when the foul turns out to be very costly.

That is how good refs control a game

You can see how much the threat of fines acts to keep guys in line. That hasn't changed and yet anarchy is common with the replacement referees.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 71, posted (2 years 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 70):
But more than that, the decision to go ahead and use replacement refs means that anytime the NFL says that player safety is their top priority is a lie

Ok, not their top priority, but also not the same as no priority at all, doesn't mean situation is "farcical".

If it was the "top" priority, by your logic we'd just not play the games at all.

Next step closer to that - ban a player forever if he ever commits an infraction related to the safety of others.

The replacement refs suck, but as above, even the best ones obtainable miss lots of things and use discretion a lot too.

I think we agree the top priority for the NFL is making money, but that of course depends on having a game that fans want to watch.

Pretty complicated stuff, unless of course one has a proclivity to jump on the 3rd rail or cling to the overhead hi-voltage lines.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8299 posts, RR: 8
Reply 72, posted (2 years 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 65):
Agreed there needs to be some process to weed out the bottom 10% or so on an ongoing basis.

And replace them with who? The guys working the games now?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 67):
This Seahawks play will now go down into the books that woke up Goodell and set him straight.

Actually, yesterday's meeting was set before the game. Might have impacted some of the owners, but I believe that the owners are looking for power and control.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 70):
You can see how much the threat of fines acts to keep guys in line.

Fines might not get their attention, but having a touchdown called back because of a that little yellow flag flying DOES get players attention. Especially if that lost score cost them the game.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 73, posted (2 years 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 72):
Actually, yesterday's meeting was set before the game. Might have impacted some of the owners, but I believe that the owners are looking for power and control.

You may be correct but the play alone impacted the whole lock out greatly. We should be thanking the Seahawks and the Packers for this, IMO.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2536 posts, RR: 7
Reply 74, posted (2 years 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3245 times:

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 55):

Mr. Rodgers (and you) conveniently neglect to mention the bad calls that went against Seattle in the game. For an example, there was a phantom PI call during GB's touchdown drive on a 3rd down that would have resulted in a punt if not called, thus GB never would have scored that TD. The bad calls sword cuts both ways. As for their guy getting a personal foul when the Seattle guy didn't - that's as old as the NFL. Has been happening for decades. The player that retaliates gets nailed while the guy who started it doesn't get penalized. The Pack need to stop whining and get ready for the Saints or they'll be looking up at the Lions and Bears from a 1-3 hole.
One last thing, then I think this dead hose has been beaten enough. I can't help but think that had this happened in a Brown/Jaguars game on a Sunday afternoon, it would have gotten a mention on Sportscenter, some people would have said, "ww, horrible call" and it would have been over. But it was Monday Night, the vaunted Packers, one of the storied franchises in the league and now we've got the Cuban Missle Crisis


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8299 posts, RR: 8
Reply 75, posted (2 years 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3229 times:

And a unique bit of news:

"Las Vegas casino offers refund to Packers-Seahawks bettors"

Quote:

In an unusual move, a Las Vegas casino is offering refunds to gamblers who lost money on the Seahawks controversial 14-12 win over the Packers on Monday.

Yes, you read that right, a casino is actually offering to return money to bettors.

The owner of The D Las Vegas, Derek Steven, told the Associated Press that the events that transpired in the final moments of the game were unacceptable and that giving people back their money was the right thing to do.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sports...awks-game-20120926,0,1739785.story

You know Vegas Guys are going to be talking to the owners.  Wow!


User currently offlinecorocks From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (2 years 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3220 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
Except that it isn't. The fine/suspension mechanisms are unaffected by the referee lockout, and yet games are descending into virtual anarchy on a regular basis. The replacements are completely overmatched and the players know it, so they take advantage.

Matter of perception - can't say I have seen any virtual anarchy. Been plenty of illegal hits before the replacement refs. Maybe the players should be held responsible a little for their safety if they are creating an unsafe environment.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 57):
The highest paid ref in the NFL makes $150k...the lowest makes $25k. During a broadcast on the weekend, they said that the average NFL ref makes the least out of all the major sports.

What I read was the average ref makes $150K. They make the least because they work the least amount of games and have the smallest time commitment out of all the major sports.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 58):
Well then we might as well get rid of refs altogether. What's the point, if there's no affect on player safety?

To make sure the rules are followed.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 65):

What principal is that, the rich get richer and the worker bees should just STFU?

Never said they don't deserve a raise, but there is no other real job in America (much less part-time) where employees can get away with demanding a 50% raise (if that is true - it is all rumor about what they are really asking for).

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 72):
And replace them with who? The guys working the games now?

From the next level down. They could not attract any real good officials from college football because they all knew it was a temporary gig.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 70):
The NFL cannot admit that the replacement refs make the game more unsafe because the new CBA apparently has language in it prohibiting a dangerous environment, which the players could have conceivably used to stop the lockout had they not given up their right to decide that sort of thing in court.

Putting spikes on the field and not allowing them to wear helmets would be the NFL creating an unsafe environment. The only people really creating an unsafe environment now are the players.

Did anyone catch Southpark tonight? It was pretty hilarious on this topic.

Thank goodness they have supposedly reached an agreement.

Go Texans!


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 77, posted (2 years 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Quoting corocks (Reply 76):
From the next level down.

The next level down, you realize, would be the high school refs, right? The current replacement refs are from NCAA D3. None if the D2 or D1 refs would touch this with a 10 foot pole.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 75):
You know Vegas Guys are going to be talking to the owners.

No, they wouldn't. The NFL is trying to put a stop to that, as well as the NCAA.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 75):
"Las Vegas casino offers refund to Packers-Seahawks bettors"

WTH?! That's just stupid on the casino's part. Idiots!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 78, posted (2 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

Quoting corocks (Reply 76):
Matter of perception - can't say I have seen any virtual anarchy.

Have you been paying attention? More games than not are getting a bit chippy on play after play and it's going unpunished by the refs.

Quoting corocks (Reply 76):
Putting spikes on the field and not allowing them to wear helmets would be the NFL creating an unsafe environment. The only people really creating an unsafe environment now are the players.

What do you think would happen if any other business got rid of their safety inspectors and just let everyone else go on working?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 79, posted (2 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
1) This is a part time job for almost all of them and they make $150k a year. That is more than probably 95% of America. I have seen some reports that they are asking for as much as a 50% increase in pay. I don't care how good you are at your job - you did not do anything in the last year to increase your pay by 50%. It does not matter how much the NFL makes, it is a matter of principle.

It should be blatantly obvious how difficult the job of an NFL referee is. We may not have known it before, but we sure as hell know it now. And when your job is difficult, you deserve to be well-compensated for it. When your job creates lots of value for people, you deserve to be well-compensated for it. And the officials do create value - see the earlier post about a casino refunding bets, and consider how that affects the casino's bottom line. The NFL makes billions per year off of its product, and the referees are a part of that product (a major part, as we've now seen). I have no problem with them being compensated the way they are.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 54):
Not sure I understand what is going on, and what people are going on about... isn't the whole purpose of the NFL to punish success and reward mediocrity with revenue sharing, salary caps, a draft system, etc.? Well, consider this just another step of that process. "You didn't intercept that".

And yet the NFL is the most popular sport in the country, partially because of the fact that there is so much parity. So I guess we like socialism?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 70):
But more than that, the decision to go ahead and use replacement refs means that anytime the NFL says that player safety is their top priority is a lie.

We knew when they proposed an 18 game schedule that player safety being their top priority was a lie.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 80, posted (2 years 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

All over thank the Lord!

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/84...es-agreement-officials-end-lockout


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4024 posts, RR: 28
Reply 81, posted (2 years 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 57):
The sports industry is unique in that you NEED healthy competition, which makes it unlike a typical business. Don't pretend that it's just football either; every major sports league operates the same way.

Correction - every sports league in the U.S. The rest of the world seems to get along just fine without rewarding mediocrity, including the most popular sport in the world, football.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 64):
Who would you advocate getting the first pick if not for the worst team?

The worst team shouldn't even get to stay in the league, period. You sucked, too bad, get relegated to the minors and let the best team from there have a shot at doing better than you. And as for who should get the pick, the answer is very simple - nobody. Players (the big losers in the current situation, for several reasons, the biggest probably being called NCAA) should be able to sign up with whatever team they want and that wants to sign them.

Quoting Mir (Reply 79):
And yet the NFL is the most popular sport in the country, partially because of the fact that there is so much parity. So I guess we like socialism?

All sports in the U.S. are socialist, not just the NFL. Not sure if it is about liking socialism, though - looking at the commercials in the breaks of football games (or is it the other way around?) doesn't seem they are targeting necessarily the most bright segment of society, so not sure most people who watch it understand how close professional sports in the U.S. are with the old U.S.S.R. (just replace the words "Gulag archipelago" with "Cleveland" and you are almost there).



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (2 years 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

New photo angle....look at the feet....

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawk...og/2019265422_presented_witho.html

Right....



Carpe Pices
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 83, posted (2 years 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3150 times:

It wont shut the cheeseheads up but that confirms Tate had possession


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1834 posts, RR: 10
Reply 84, posted (2 years 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3150 times:

Quoting bhill (Reply 82):
New photo angle....look at the feet....

http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawk...og/2019265422_presented_witho.html

Right....
Quoting L-188 (Reply 83):
It wont shut the cheeseheads up but that confirms Tate had possession

And here I was thinking you gain possession by catching the ball with your hands and not your feet. Silly me...  
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 81):

We get it, you don't like football. You don't have to watch it. Let the people who actually care discuss the original topic.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4820 posts, RR: 26
Reply 85, posted (2 years 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3139 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 77):
Quoting corocks (Reply 76):
From the next level down.

The next level down, you realize, would be the high school refs, right? The current replacement refs are from NCAA D3. None if the D2 or D1 refs would touch this with a 10 foot pole.

Uh, go back an reread that conversation. He's saying the NCAA D1 and D2 refs aren't interested in being scabs during this lockout but they'd be available to replace the bottom 10% of the real NFL refs should a system be put in place to hold the worst refs accountable by firing and replacing the ones who are consistently bad.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (2 years 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

Westjet....that's the other football....where they actually work the whole game.....not take a break every commercial....


Carpe Pices
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 87, posted (2 years 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 83):
It wont shut the cheeseheads up but that confirms Tate had possession

Bull. Jennings has possession first. He goes to the ground, maintains possession throughout, and thus intercepts the pass. Whatever Tate does is inconsequential since he's second to touch the ball (unless he ended up with control of the ball, which he didn't).

But it is good to know that the NFL did the right thing, and we will have the proper officials back tonight.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 88, posted (2 years 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 72):
And replace them with who? The guys working the games now?

The normal sequence is to get guys from the top ranks of college football, train them up, and then work them into the crews starting with the less crucial positions.

What we had here was entire crews of guys who either couldn't make it in the top ranks of college or who had retired, and none with any type of NFL experience.

The old ref contract ended in July so the NFL had zilch for time to get the replacements/scabs any training.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 72):
Fines might not get their attention, but having a touchdown called back because of a that little yellow flag flying DOES get players attention. Especially if that lost score cost them the game.

Suspensions get even more attention since the guy has to stew about it for a while, hear about it in the press, then has to sit and watch while his mates hit the field and he can do nothing to help. Money is nothing to these guys. Write the check, wash your hands of the whole affair. In fact having to pay gives them a bit of notoriety.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 75):
You know Vegas Guys are going to be talking to the owners.

I read one reason why things came together was that the TV execs pressured the NFL execs.

As I said in the NE/BAL game there was around a minute or so of the entire stadium screaming "BULLSH*T" at the top of their lungs in unison.

Not the kind of "TV moment" that the networks pay so dearly to gain access to.

Quoting corocks (Reply 76):
Never said they don't deserve a raise, but there is no other real job in America (much less part-time) where employees can get away with demanding a 50% raise (if that is true - it is all rumor about what they are really asking for).

I think the error in your logic is comparing what an NFL ref does to a "real job".

As we've all just learned, what they do is pretty special.

We also know the NFL would prefer that these guys not be part timers, but they refuse, because having that 2nd income stream is what allowed them to get through the lockout.

Quoting Mir (Reply 79):
It should be blatantly obvious how difficult the job of an NFL referee is. We may not have known it before, but we sure as hell know it now

  

The NFL took the gamble that replacement refs would work out, and they lost.

It cost the refs 3 paycheks, but in return they got 8 years of a much better deal.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 81):
The rest of the world seems to get along just fine without rewarding mediocrity, including the most popular sport in the world, football.

LOL! The EPL is a joke where on starting day you know only a quarter of the teams if less have any chance at the title. Same's true of most other top-level leagues. If that's what you want, feel free to watch.

Quoting bhill (Reply 86):
Westjet....that's the other football....where they actually work the whole game.....not take a break every commercial....

If you like dudes in shorts running around for an hour and a half tripping each other, go for it!

If you like a sport where diving is so common that they have to have separate penalties for it, go for it!

If you like a sport where the fans make monkey noises when blacks participate, go for it!

If you like a sport where dudes kiss each other after a goal, go for it!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (2 years 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

Mir, the picture clearly shows that the person with BOTH feet on the ground FIRST had possession...a reception does not occur until:

Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3 of the NFL rule book defines a catch:

A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds:

(a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and

(b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and

(c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/09/25/...s-interference-call/#ixzz27gmgATH8

Jennings clearly only had ONE foot down...Tate had two....the rule states AND....not OR.....



Carpe Pices
User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (2 years 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Yeah?...never observed a soccer player putting his open hands in another guy's crotch tho ...or slappin' each other on the ass....


Carpe Pices
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 91, posted (2 years 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 85):
Uh, go back an reread that conversation. He's saying the NCAA D1 and D2 refs aren't interested in being scabs during this lockout but they'd be available to replace the bottom 10% of the real NFL refs should a system be put in place to hold the worst refs accountable by firing and replacing the ones who are consistently bad.

Uhhh, ESPN said on tv after the SEA game Monday night and also the very next morning that they came from D3. That's the only source I got.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 92, posted (2 years 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 91):
Uhhh, ESPN said on tv after the SEA game Monday night and also the very next morning that they came from D3. That's the only source I got.

D3, meaning Division 3, two big stops down from the top, three huge steps down from the NFL.

For baseball fans, that would be as if Single A umps took over for MLB umps, and even worse since Single A is at least a pro league.

And of course we now have the infamous example of the ref who couldn't even make it for a season in the Lingerie League now calling NFL games!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 93, posted (2 years 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

Quoting bhill (Reply 89):
Mir, the picture clearly shows that the person with BOTH feet on the ground FIRST had possession...

It really doesn't. You can barely see the ball in that picture.

Even if Tate did manage to get both hands on the ball and both feet down, he still has to maintain control of the ball in accordance with part (c) of what you posted. He doesn't - the ball ends up in Jenning's hands, with Tate only having one of his on the ball, with Jennings on top of him.

Meanwhile, Jennings makes initial contact with the ball, he gets possession of the ball first, he maintains possession all the way to the ground, and he does get both feet inbounds. That's a catch (in this case, an interception).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4820 posts, RR: 26
Reply 94, posted (2 years 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 91):
Uhhh, ESPN said on tv after the SEA game Monday night and also the very next morning that they came from D3. That's the only source I got.

You need to go back and read the conversation in this thread...


Quoting corocks (Reply 50):
2) Most importantly, the refs are rejecting a plan that penalizes them for poor performance. They want all this extra money, but don't want to be held accountable when they screw up.
Quoting Revelation (Reply 65):
Agreed there needs to be some process to weed out the bottom 10% or so on an ongoing basis.
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 72):
And replace them with who? The guys working the games now?
Quoting corocks (Reply 76):

From the next level down. They could not attract any real good officials from college football because they all knew it was a temporary gig.

They aren't talking about the current replacements and where they came from! A hypothetical situation was brought up, one where the REAL NFL refs are held accountable for consistently bad calls and if they could get fired for being bad, where would the NFL draw from to hire new REAL refs.

Now back to this quote...

Quoting corocks (Reply 76):
From the next level down. They could not attract any real good officials from college football because they all knew it was a temporary gig.

I took that to mean the next level down as the D1 and D2 guys that were NOT brought up as replacement refs.

Now if I misread something, I'll stand corrected. But that's how I understood the conversation above.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 95, posted (2 years 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 83):
It wont shut the cheeseheads up but that confirms Tate had possession

So. There is no single image, sound or tangible proof that Tate ever had posession. For that one needs to actually hold and maintain the ball. Nobody except the now ex-referee thought that was the case.

The game is an asterisk. It is in fact the very reason everyone in the world saw that Tate did not have posession was the straw that broke the NFLs back and brought them back to the negotiating table with the actual refs.

Now if the Seahawks had actually, legitimately won the game, the refs would still be in lockout.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 84):
And here I was thinking you gain possession by catching the ball with your hands and not your feet. Silly me...  

Well, it is pretty evident by the sudden negotiating with the actual refs to come back, that everyone and his grandmother saw that Jennings of Green Bay had posession and the amateur-referees awarded Tate a touchdown in an epic show of brainfarting.

This in an epic string of errors and misjudgements in that last drive that caused the Seahawks to even have a hail-Mary chance and then in the end a stupid ref just awarded Seattle the touchdown and win - arbitrarily.

If Tate actually had made the touchdown (which he clearly did not) the fake-refs would still be out there and the real refs in lockout.

It was the fact that all the other teams suddenly realized that this could happen to them that pushed the NFL to make haste and fix this silliness ASAP.

In retrospect this point will probably not be of any consequence, it might, but probably won't. Seattle could have done the sportsmanlike thing and acknowledged they were awarded the win unfairly, but chose to live in La-La-Land and pretend that their fourth hail-Mary wasn't the dud it actually was.

Either way, there's something wrong in the heads and judgement of people when they feel lying and cheating is better than acknowledging an error and moving on.

The Packers didn't whine about this, they just took it as it was, remarked that it was a dumbfounding mistake on part of the replacement referees and put it behind them. The Packers, to their credit, were very sportsmanlike about this - they lost game because of a referee brainfart evident to all, but that's that. Next game.

The Seahawks come as unsportsmanlike whiners. Unsportsmanlike for not acknowledging that the touchdown was awarded in error and in fact insisting otherwise - and whiners because apparently they want everyone else to join their new touchdown-was-real cult.

I wish the Seahawks all the best, but I sincerely hope they make playoffs with a wider margin than one win. Just so their fans don't have to lie to themselves in the postseason as well, claiming that they actually deserve to be in the playoffs.



Tonight we fly
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 96, posted (2 years 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3074 times:



User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 97, posted (2 years 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

Quoting bhill (Reply 89):
Mir, the picture clearly shows that the person with BOTH feet on the ground FIRST had possession...a reception does not occur until:
Quoting Mir (Reply 93):
It really doesn't. You can barely see the ball in that picture.

      

Mir is quite correct. That photo shows nothing, it doesn't even show Tate's right hand, but either way it's irrelevant because if (and that's not the case, but hypothetically) if Tate had managed posession on the ball, he didn't have it a half second later because Jennings did, and it was only after Tate sprawled like a beached salmon on his back without a ball on the grass that he managed to get one hand on the ball in the arms of Jennings and the brainfart of a replacement referee caused all of them to be fired the very next day.

The real referees were not brought back because those replacement refs were doing a heck of a job, or even a mediocre or even a pretty bad job ... but because they were atrocious and lost control of the game. Made stupid calls like awarding an undeserved win to the Seahawks last monday.

Now if the wishful thinking of the handful of the most delusional Seahawks fans were in any way close to the realm of reality; we'd have the replacement referees this upcoming weekend too - but no, they've been fired because Seattle was awarded an undeserved victory.



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11383 posts, RR: 52
Reply 98, posted (2 years 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3064 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 95):
Now if the Seahawks had actually, legitimately won the game, the refs would still be in lockout.

This is the quote of the year.

Absolutely true, and boils the whole damn thing down to one easily swallowed idea. Without this play, the old refs do not have the leverage they needed to make the NFL cave. WITH this play, the old refs could probably even ask for MORE.



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User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 99, posted (2 years 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 92):
D3, meaning Division 3, two big stops down from the top, three huge steps down from the NFL.

Yeah, Community College Refs.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 94):
You need to go back and read the conversation in this thread...

Silver, friggin relax, ok?! All I'm saying is what ESPN said. That not my quote. That came FROM ESPN, not me. Relax!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4820 posts, RR: 26
Reply 100, posted (2 years 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3051 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 99):
Silver, friggin relax, ok?! All I'm saying is what ESPN said. That not my quote. That came FROM ESPN, not me. Relax!

I just don't know what relevance that has to the quote you replied to, that's all.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21654 posts, RR: 55
Reply 101, posted (2 years 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3029 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 95):
Now if the Seahawks had actually, legitimately won the game, the refs would still be in lockout.

Would still be, but probably only for a couple more weeks. This sort of thing was inevitable - that a deal got done so soon is testament to the fact that behind the scenes forces were brewing, this just accelerated the process.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5654 posts, RR: 6
Reply 102, posted (2 years 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3030 times:

LOL. I love the people whining that the regular refs make $100K+/yr, claiming it's "unfair".

Guess what: supply and demand. As we have seen (and as the NFL has clearly seen), the refs are worth every penny they make. The players and fans demand accurate calls, and while mistakes happen, the regular refs vastly outperform anyone else. Why should they accept less than what they can get? So the average Joe doesn't get butthurt about making $20/hr in a blue collar job?



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 103, posted (2 years 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3020 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 102):
I love the people whining that the regular refs make $100K+/yr, claiming it's "unfair".

Oh, for me, I don't care how much they make. They know how to control the game much better than the replacement guys. This isn't a knock against the replacements, however, the veterans know what they're doing.

When it comes to the veterans, there is always a love and hate relationship with them. But for the major part, they do a pretty darn good job. I'm glad they're back!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 5
Reply 104, posted (2 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

So the regular refs were back this week, but you wouldn't have known it by watching the Packers-Saints!!! Three more BAD blown calls going against Green Bay:

1.) Brees threw a 20-yard touchdown pass to Marques Colston late in the first quarter, although Colston got away with an obvious offensive pass-interference.

2.) With the Packers leading 21-14 in the third quarter, Mike McCarthy challenged a third down catch by Jimmy Graham but it wasn't overturned, even though replays showed the ball moving and hitting the ground. The Saints were able to continue their drive and it ended in a touchdown.

3.) After Rodgers' touchdown to Jordy Nelson in the 4th quarter, Darren Sproles fumbled the ensuing kickoff but the refs ruled that he was down by contact, even though replays showed that the ball clearly came out (Packers were out of challenges).



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 105, posted (2 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2841 times:

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 104):
Three more BAD blown calls going against Green Bay

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Green Bay did get the win. That's all that matters.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 106, posted (2 years 23 hours ago) and read 2806 times:

I started Sun by watching NE-BUF and got a sense there that it was very good to have the real refs back in place. The fake refs were all over the place, overcalling some things like PI, just not having a good grasp of the rules, and just not keeping up with the speed of the action. I quickly got the sense that the real refs were up to the task, and quickly the refs faded into the background, like they're supposed to.

However:

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 104):
Three more BAD blown calls going against Green Bay:

Quite true. I'm glad GB got the win, otherwise the spam would be hitting the fan at high volume.

In particular:

Quoting mke717spotter (Reply 104):
With the Packers leading 21-14 in the third quarter, Mike McCarthy challenged a third down catch by Jimmy Graham but it wasn't overturned, even though replays showed the ball moving and hitting the ground.

I'm amazed this one was missed in replay. You could see the path of the ball change as it hit the ground! What was the ref looking at?

It seems (a) this crew had a bad night or (b) this crew might be one who just is under-performing and should be retired off

Let's hope the bounces even out for GB the rest of the way.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 107, posted (2 years 19 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

The packers only won that game because of the holding call against tge saints during the last field goal kick. There was no hold in any of the replays. Tge refs cheated the Saints!

Fact remaibs Tate made tgat marvilius reception last week. And the packers are a team that needed the refs help to win yesterday.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 108, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 105):
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Green Bay did get the win. That's all that matters.

Yeah, I'm going to chalk this one up to first-game pressure for the refs. Normally I find no particular fault with Triplette and his crew, I was surprised at their sub-par preformance in the NO vs GB game.

All in all I was pretty content, but I did scratch my head over the third down catch by Jimmy Graham, that was challenged, but not overturned.

To overturn it needs to be not only probable, but evident, that the original ruling was in error and there was not one moment that Graham had control of that ball, it touched the ground extremely obviously with Graham miles away from gaining control - it was a textbook example of an incomplete pass.

Yet, despite it being evident, and normally reserved commentators even saying that there was no doubt this was an incomplete pass, and especially obvious on video, Triplette didn't overturn that call.



Tonight we fly
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