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Obama's UN Speech  
User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8793 posts, RR: 24
Posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Transcript here:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/white...s-general-assembly-20120925?page=1

Here's a couple of passages that marked me:

Quote:
The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt – it must be claimed by those in Tahrir Square who chanted “Muslims, Christians, we are one.” The future must not belong to those who bully women – it must be shaped by girls who go to school, and those who stand for a world where our daughters can live their dreams just like our sons. The future must not belong to those corrupt few who steal a country’s resources – it must be won by the students and entrepreneurs; workers and business owners who seek a broader prosperity for all people. Those are the men and women that America stands with; theirs is the vision we will support.

The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. Yet to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see when the image of Jesus Christ is desecrated, churches are destroyed, or the Holocaust is denied. Let us condemn incitement against Sufi Muslims, and Shiite pilgrims. It is time to heed the words of Gandhi: “Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.” Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them. That is what America embodies, and that is the vision we will support.

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam."

What the President has done is to equate “slandering Islam” with real crimes such as targeting Egyptian Copts and Christians, repressing and abusing women, and corruption. He has played right into the hands of the extremists who are trying to make “Islamaphobia” illegal and punishable by law, just as corruption and murder are punishable by law.

Either he is a Moron, or his values are far outside what we want as Americans. Freedom of speech was instituted to protect criticism and satire of those who historically are prone to react violently - politicians, clergy, and other people in a position of power, influence.


Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Here's a couple of passages that marked me:

Hitting a little close to home, huh?

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Freedom of speech was instituted to protect criticism and satire of those who historically are prone to react violently - politicians, clergy, and other people in a position of power, influence.

...and it isn't going anywhere, so you have nothing to worry about.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Freedom of speech was instituted to protect criticism and satire of those who historically are prone to react violently - politicians, clergy, and other people in a position of power, influence.

Which is precisely what he notes earlier in the speech:

That is what we saw play out in the last two weeks, as a crude and disgusting video sparked outrage throughout the Muslim world. Now, I have made it clear that the United States government had nothing to do with this video, and I believe its message must be rejected by all who respect our common humanity.

It is an insult not only to Muslims, but to America as well -- for as the city outside these walls makes clear, we are a country that has welcomed people of every race and every faith. We are home to Muslims who worship across our country. We not only respect the freedom of religion, we have laws that protect individuals from being harmed because of how they look or what they believe. We understand why people take offense to this video because millions of our citizens are among them.

I know there are some who ask why we don’t just ban such a video. And the answer is enshrined in our laws: Our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech.

Here in the United States, countless publications provoke offense. Like me, the majority of Americans are Christian, and yet we do not ban blasphemy against our most sacred beliefs. As President of our country and Commander-in-Chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day -- and I will always defend their right to do so.

Americans have fought and died around the globe to protect the right of all people to express their views, even views that we profoundly disagree with. We do not do so because we support hateful speech, but because our founders understood that without such protections, the capacity of each individual to express their own views and practice their own faith may be threatened. We do so because in a diverse society, efforts to restrict speech can quickly become a tool to silence critics and oppress minorities.

We do so because given the power of faith in our lives, and the passion that religious differences can inflame, the strongest weapon against hateful speech is not repression; it is more speech -- the voices of tolerance that rally against bigotry and blasphemy, and lift up the values of understanding and mutual respect.


I don't think the President is calling for "Islamophobia" to be made illegal but to point out the future shouldn't belong to bigots nor to those (including Islamists) who only take offense when it's their faith that's being insulted.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2941 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
What the President has done is to equate “slandering Islam” with real crimes such as targeting Egyptian Copts and Christians, repressing and abusing women, and corruption. He has played right into the hands of the extremists who are trying to make “Islamaphobia” illegal and punishable by law, just as corruption and murder are punishable by law.

Yes he has, ...the only promise he has kept since his first campaign..."Hope and Change" but he never spelled out for who. It certainly is not for America. He has enabled an East vs West Climate that is travelling down a dark road. I believe this to be a very dangerous direction at this juncture and America better soon make up its mind how it will deal with the childish behavior we see pretty much on both sides. If left to continue, the outcome will be tragic. I'm seeing a global conflagration here taking shape. Like the "Nuclear Clock", I wonder what time it now is...about a quarter to Armageddon?


User currently onlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2914 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
What the President has done is to equate “slandering Islam” with real crimes such as targeting Egyptian Copts and Christians, repressing and abusing women, and corruption. He has played right into the hands of the extremists who are trying to make “Islamaphobia” illegal and punishable by law, just as corruption and murder are punishable by law.

Where was Crime mentioned here?
You are really overrreaching on this one. A bit to much Rush Radio today?



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2897 times:

My goodness, Dreadnought. This isn't a State of the Union address, it's the U.N. General Assembly General Debate. What else would you expect him to talk about?

May I remind all that the theme of this Session's debate is "Adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations by peaceful means". So in a time where tensions between the U.S. and the Middle East is tense, it is with full expectation that the President discuss hateful incidents that ultimately lead to violence, as it keeps within the topic of discussion as decided by the President of the Session.

If you want to hear an actual moron, Ahmedinejad spoke about 30 minutes ago, I'm sure the video has been posted already for your viewing pleasure.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Either he is a Moron, or his values are far outside what we want as Americans. Freedom of speech was instituted to protect criticism and satire of those who historically are prone to react violently - politicians, clergy, and other people in a position of power, influence.

I guess you missed this part:

"I know there are some who ask why we don’t just ban such a video. And the answer is enshrined in our laws: Our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech."



Flying refined.
User currently offlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2895 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
What the President has done is to equate “slandering Islam”...

That's your interpretation, which relies heavily on taking this one sentence out of context. That's a trick Karl Rove uses and one that FoxNews uses too.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Either he is a Moron, or his values are far outside what we want as Americans.

Yep, let's continue with the theme that he's not like the rest of us. He's different. He has different "values" than the rest of America.

Yeah, right. Oh and he's black too!

I suppose that constantly questioning the President's loyalty, constantly implying he's not one of us is the only way to take him down when one can't win by debating actual policy - policy that has real impact on the lives and economic well being of American citizens.

...just sayin'.


User currently offlinehelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):
That's your interpretation, which relies heavily on taking this one sentence out of context. That's a trick Karl Rove uses and one that FoxNews uses too.

This is actually a talking point by Erik Erickson on Red State. No original thought needed.

Looking at the rest of the speech it is actually reasonable:

Quote:
The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. Yet to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see when the image of Jesus Christ is desecrated, churches are destroyed, or the Holocaust is denied. Let us condemn incitement against Sufi Muslims, and Shiite pilgrims. It is time to heed the words of Gandhi: “Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.” Together, we must work towards a world where we are strengthened by our differences, and not defined by them. That is what America embodies, and that is the vision we will support.

In other words a plague on all religious extremists houses, something most reasonable people can agree on.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):
Yep, let's continue with the theme that he's not like the rest of us. He's different. He has different "values" than the rest of America.

He has indeed...next!


User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8793 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2848 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 5):

"I know there are some who ask why we don’t just ban such a video. And the answer is enshrined in our laws: Our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech."

I did not miss that - but think that he negates or soft-pedals the impact when he mentions those who blaspheme being on equal footing with the corrupt, the abusers, and the violent.

The simple truth is that the Islamic world must learn to accept criticism, satire, and even boneheaded ignorant statements/accusations against things they hold dear, including their prophet, without flying off the handle and killing people. Just like in the rest of the world. In Japan, a century ago, the emperor was considered a god. Now, nobody will kill you if you make fun of him. In the predominantly Christian West, insulting Christians has become a popular sport, and while you might get heated words, you never see people rushing out of church on Sunday and tearing down the town.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

Quoting helvknight (Reply 7):
In other words a plague on all religious extremists houses, something most reasonable people can agree on.

   Indeed.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
I did not miss that - but think that he negates or soft-pedals the impact when he mentions those who blaspheme being on equal footing with the corrupt, the abusers, and the violent.

As mentioned by mbmbos, it comes down to interpretation. Everybody is going to interpret this speech in their own way. My interpretation was that he did not put them on equal footing, but that he drew attention to the problems in all their forms. I believe it's too easy to blame only those commit the physical violence, and allow the puppeteers to go about their business.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
The simple truth is that the Islamic world must learn to accept criticism, satire, and even boneheaded ignorant statements/accusations against things they hold dear, including their prophet, without flying off the handle and killing people.

Agreed, but where is Obama wrong in chastising those who make the boneheaded statements in the first place? Sure, the violence is deplorable and inexcusable, but America (and every other country for that matter) should never ignore those who use the pen as their weapon. That's what I understood Obama to mean by his comments, and I agree with it.



Flying refined.
User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8793 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2815 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 10):
Agreed, but where is Obama wrong in chastising those who make the boneheaded statements in the first place?

Because he just gives weight to those who will say, "Yes, but...". Killing because of blasphemy, is wrong, period, punkt schluss, finis. No excuses.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2763 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
The simple truth is that the Islamic world must learn to accept criticism, satire, and even boneheaded ignorant statements/accusations against things they hold dear, including their prophet, without flying off the handle and killing people. Just like in the rest of the world.

Which is exactly what Obama says:

And on this we must agree: There is no speech that justifies mindless violence. There are no words that excuse the killing of innocents. There's no video that justifies an attack on an embassy. There's no slander that provides an excuse for people to burn a restaurant in Lebanon, or destroy a school in Tunis, or cause death and destruction in Pakistan.

In this modern world with modern technologies, for us to respond in that way to hateful speech empowers any individual who engages in such speech to create chaos around the world. We empower the worst of us if that’s how we respond.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2757 times:

I found his speech to be very watered down. He had a few good points, but it seemed to be more of a campaign speech than anything else. He definitely played it safe, focusing on selling America's foreign policy, and the credibility of his administration, to the world.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 5):
"Adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations by peaceful means".

 

Meanwhile, as the world leaders in NY kiss ass and pat each other on the back for a job well done, the violence and persecution continues.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):
Yeah, right. Oh and he's black too!

Uncalled for, are you calling Dreadnought a racist? I assure you he's not unless you can back up your baseless, inflammatory remark.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):

I don't know, personally I think he could have been a little more firm on it being free speech, and that our citizens will continue to have that right, but otherwise I think it was pretty good. He was saying that moving forward in the future isn't going to be for those that hold hate--hate/slander against the Prophet, those destroying churches, etc.

I think we're missing the point of view of an ordinary Muslim in some of these countries. The media is controlled by the government and NOTHING sees the light of day unless the government approves. Then you see, out of America, this video. "Well, it came out of America, the government must be okay with it." Truth is, the government is NOT okay with it, but they support the freedom of speech to say it. Again, I think he could've been a little more stern on that front, but I think him "playing into the Islamists' hands" or "moving towards limiting free speech" is off the mark.

Trust me, some of these countries piss me off too, but if we learned anything in the past few decades, it's being too lax on them isn't good but being too harsh/aggressive is not good either. The President has the impossible job of balancing it, is doing the best he can, by no means perfect, but really, I'm not sure if the perfect approach exists. If you want to find a flaw in the way he handles things, you will ALWAYS be able to, no one is perfect.

That is what has really been turning me off with the Republicans lately--they are too nitpicky about a lot of things. They have many legitimate complaints, yes, but everything our President does seems to be an issue... they are holding him at such a high standard he could be Reagan 2.0 and still mess up in almost every front. Just my opinion and what I've observed lately



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 9802 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2684 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Either he is a Moron, or his values are far outside what we want as Americans.
Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 8):
He has indeed...next!

I guarantee both of you that I have different values than you do, at least on some things.

Am I not an American?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
Uncalled for, are you calling Dreadnought a racist? I assure you he's not unless you can back up your baseless, inflammatory remark.

I usually agree with you, but I don't see that remark as much more inflammatory than saying Obama doesn't want what Americans want (read the next sentence before anyone comments ---> ). Because, basically, that's saying that anyone that is going to vote for him or agrees with him is un-American. And that's a bunch of BS.

It's too damn easy to simply say "oh, he's un-American". It gets people's blood boiling with little proof necessary. Ain't anyone in the US exactly the same as anyone else, and it's utter crap to think that way.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineCaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1565 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
The simple truth is that the Islamic world must learn to accept criticism, satire, and even boneheaded ignorant statements/accusations against things they hold dear, including their prophet, without flying off the handle and killing people.

its not the whole Islamic world that does this, but the uneducated and the crazy people.


User currently offlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
Uncalled for, are you calling Dreadnought a racist? I assure you he's not unless you can back up your baseless, inflammatory remark.

I have not called him a racist as you can plainly see. However, his comments do speak for themselves.


User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8793 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 2657 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
Uncalled for, are you calling Dreadnought a racist?

Sounds kinda like it.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 17):
I have not called him a racist as you can plainly see. However, his comments do speak for themselves.

Ah, so you are calling me a racist.

All I said was that, unless that paragraph was put together by a boneheaded speechwriter, and Obama was tired when he reviewed it and did not catch the implications of talking of freedom of speech in the same manner as talking of corruption and physical persecution of a minority population (which admittedly is a 3rd possibility I should have listed), then either he is an idiot, or he sincerely believes that blasphemy against Islam should somehow have a special protective category all its own, not given to Christians, Buddhists etc. Basically rewarding the religion which is the most violent. That is against what America stands for. There are plenty of others who also are philosophically dead-set against the values upon which the country was founded, like Nancy Pelosi. Am I a racist for calling her on that? Race has nothing to do with it.




Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
What the President has done is to equate “slandering Islam” with real crimes

Like freedom of speech? In a country that has their own set of rules that have nothing to do with us?

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Either he is a Moron, or his values are far outside what we want as Americans

Like freedom of speech? How dare he! Defending freedom of/from religion!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8793 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2605 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):
Like freedom of speech? In a country that has their own set of rules that have nothing to do with us?


Let's rephrase that for the less literate crowd.

What the President has done is to equate Freedom of Speech with real crimes...



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 2590 times:

With freedom comes responsibility. Something that a lot of people don't want to accept. It would be ideal if everyone were responsible and had enough respect for others to allow for consideration but those traits are often lacking. Also lacking is the ability to listen and hear what is being said and instead only choosing to hear the bits one wants to.

Instead of taking the speech in its entirety, the speech is dissected for possible flaws that prove that the speech-maker is deficient or sending mixed messages, favouring an enemy rather than appealing for an end to extremism wherever it comes from. Not really surprising as it was a political speech and if politics is about anything, it is about conflict.

Far from giving succour to fundamentalists, Obama's message is aimed also at those within the Islamic world who incite hatred against Sufi Muslims, and Shiite pilgrims. Whether it is Sunni against Shia, or Muslim against Jew, or Christians against the others, Obama has roundly condemned hatred and vilification. Some people may not approve: their right to express their hatred of other people is more important than trying to seek that which unites rather than that which destroys. And such people will call themselves all sorts of things; this 'ist or that 'ite or another 'ian. It matters not what they call themselves. They may claim to be different from each other, morally superior or whatever, but they share the same hatred of their fellows.

Meanwhile decent people from different backgrounds and religions continue to work together to resolve differences. Obama's appeal is for people to join with them rather than swell the number of those who wish to create deeper schisms.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 17):
I have not called him a racist as you can plainly see. However, his comments do speak for themselves.

Way to just, um, prove yourself wrong?    

I've read his comments on this site long enough to say he is not a racist...

Quoting seb146 (Reply 19):

   What are you talking about?? While I think a bit differently on this issue, I at least see where he's coming from. Your rant doesn't make any sense. What he is really saying is that the President listed off a few items, one of them was "insulting the prophet" and the other was "destroying Christian churches," as if they are being placed on the same level. You're post completely missed the mark! Slow down and understand before you go off the deep end and post like that!  Wow!



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2512 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):

What the President has done is to equate Freedom of Speech with real crimes...

He did not such thing. At all. Other than on some crazy Right wing webpage rant.

What he did was acknoweldge that we should not embrace people that use their Freedom of speech to say outlandish stuff.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1901 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2502 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 23):
What he did was acknoweldge that we should not embrace people that use their Freedom of speech to say outlandish stuff.

Well duh...that's been implicit throughout this whole ordeal. Who is actually out there praising the video for it's cinematic "mastery" and it's accuracy? No one. But in the current context of Muslim nations calling on the West to tamper slandering of Mohammed and UN resolutions to make "blasphemy" a sanctionable offense, it's an amateurish statement.

People say outlandish stuff all the time...I've seen ridiculous satires of Judaism, Christianity, Mormonism, Scientology...etc rampant across the national scene on shows such as South Park, American Dad, and Family Guy, yet the intelligentsia remains silent. But when some nobody puts out a video just a couple minutes long about Islam, all of a sudden there's supposedly this worldwide "come to Jesus" moment (no pun intended) on the responsibility of free speach? Give me a break.

This, to me, is reminiscent of the Tucson shooting with Gabriel Giffords. Seemingly out of nowhere, without knowing the personality or motivations of the shooter, we're suddenly deeply concerned about the intensity of "rhetoric" in our political discourse and Sarah Palin is partly at fault for the shooting because she had an election map with cross-hairs on it   Never mind that it turned out the guy was just a complete loon whose political views were outside the scope of both political parties.


User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8793 posts, RR: 24
Reply 25, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2513 times:

What the President has done is to equate Freedom of Speech with real crimes...

He did not such thing. At all.[/quote]

Please read...

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt...
The future must not belong to those who bully women...
The future must not belong to those corrupt few who steal a country’s resources...
The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam
Quoting casinterest (Reply 23):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):


[quote=casinterest,reply=23]Other than on some crazy Right wing webpage rant.

Are you saying he did not say these things?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 22):
I've read his comments on this site long enough to say he is not a racist...

Thank you. But in today's world, disagreeing with anything Obama says is enough to get you labeled a racist, it seems.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6537 posts, RR: 9
Reply 26, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2506 times:

I agree with what he said in general but I also agree that the part about slandering Islam wasn't worded well. Sure, slander is not something constructive and will not lead to a better future, but it has a purpose, making people think. And there is really no point in condemning it, it's even counterproductive since it's legal anyway.

Another reason why slander should not be in our future is that it should become unnecessary, in a perfect world. Not because it would be banned.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently onlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4509 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2514 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 24):
it's an amateurish statement.

Not when the actual statement makes the correct statement .

From his speech
"
I know there are some who ask why we don’t just ban such a video. And the answer is enshrined in our laws: Our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech.

Here in the United States, countless publications provoke offense. Like me, the majority of Americans are Christian, and yet we do not ban blasphemy against our most sacred beliefs. As President of our country and Commander-in-Chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day -- and I will always defend their right to do so.
"

The statement needs to be said and on record. What makes sense to the US, does not ,make sense in places where they kill for blasphemy and the Government sensors all piublications. the hope is that the US president makes it through those filters and is usnderstood in the context of the whole speech. Not in the context of selected soundbytes that a bunch of right wing folkds are looking to attack Obama in hopes that h makes the US sound weak.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineimiakhtar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 28, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week ago) and read 2502 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
Dreadnought a racist

Dreadnought is not a racist. He is a xenophobe.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 29, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 28):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 14):
Dreadnought a racist

Dreadnought is not a racist. He is a xenophobe.

This is getting ridiculous. I'm sure many xenophobes just decide to go live in foreign countries (Switzerland in his case. Don't say "but they're all white..." What a load of .....)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1264 posts, RR: 3
Reply 30, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

Off topic, but did anyone see Netenyahu's bomb diagram?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...binyamin-netanyahu-cartoon-bomb-un

As many have pointed out, it's quite a surprise that Iran sources their bombs from ACME.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 31, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2422 times:

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 16):
its not the whole Islamic world that does this, but the uneducated and the crazy people.

I'd say it's just the crazy people. I've met uneducated Muslims who aren't violent whatsoever.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 17):
I have not called him a racist as you can plainly see. However, his comments do speak for themselves.

Even insinuating the he is a racist (when he clearly made no such comments) degrades the quality of this discussion.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 18):
or he sincerely believes that blasphemy against Islam should somehow have a special protective category all its own, not given to Christians, Buddhists etc. Basically rewarding the religion which is the most violent.

Actually, on a couple occasions during his speech he mentions that those religions need to be on the same level. I believe one of the quotes was: "Muslims and Christians need to be one"

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 24):
I've seen ridiculous satires of Judaism, Christianity, Mormonism, Scientology...etc rampant across the national scene on shows such as South Park, American Dad, and Family Guy, yet the intelligentsia remains silent. But when some nobody puts out a video just a couple minutes long about Islam, all of a sudden there's supposedly this worldwide "come to Jesus" moment (no pun intended) on the responsibility of free speach? Give me a break.

I think you need to watch a little more South Park and Family Guy. Both those shows came under fire for attempting to show Muhammad. The Family Guy episode was ultimately censored. South Park tried to do it twice I believe; the first was uncensored, the second was censored (take this with a grain of salt as I'm going off of memory).



Flying refined.
User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8793 posts, RR: 24
Reply 32, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 28):
Dreadnought is not a racist. He is a xenophobe.

LOL, I'm married into an Indian family, lived most of my life overseas, and have every intention of one day retiring overseas (haven't decided where yet).

Sounds like the typical response of a "tolerant" leftist when faced with opinions he cannot tolerate.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 31):
Actually, on a couple occasions during his speech he mentions that those religions need to be on the same level. I believe one of the quotes was: "Muslims and Christians need to be one"

Fine, so what? He still condemned a person for exercising his rights to free speech, to the same degree as pretty severe crimes.

His only mention of that film, if he had to mention it at all, should have been limited to, "Deal with it."



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1901 posts, RR: 9
Reply 33, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2375 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 27):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 24):
it's an amateurish statement.

Not when the actual statement makes the correct statement .

It still holds water even in context. Logic is logic and, whether intentionally or unintentionally, he drew an equivalency between those who slander Mohammed and those rioting.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 27):
I know there are some who ask why we don’t just ban such a video. And the answer is enshrined in our laws: Our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech.

Yeah he says that, but then his administration went and pleaded with Youtube to take down the video, that is censorship.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 31):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 24):
I've seen ridiculous satires of Judaism, Christianity, Mormonism, Scientology...etc rampant across the national scene on shows such as South Park, American Dad, and Family Guy, yet the intelligentsia remains silent. But when some nobody puts out a video just a couple minutes long about Islam, all of a sudden there's supposedly this worldwide "come to Jesus" moment (no pun intended) on the responsibility of free speach? Give me a break.

I think you need to watch a little more South Park and Family Guy. Both those shows came under fire for attempting to show Muhammad. The Family Guy episode was ultimately censored. South Park tried to do it twice I believe; the first was uncensored, the second was censored (take this with a grain of salt as I'm going off of memory).

That just makes my point. There's no outcry for "sensitivity" for the beliefs of others when it's Mormonism, Christianity, or Judaism, but when it comes to Islam, the cries for sensitive and tolerance come out of the woodwork right away.


User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 695 posts, RR: 13
Reply 34, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

In the first paragraph Obama talks about "real crimes" like bullying women and stealing resources.
.
In the second paragraph he talks about acts offensive to religions, including Christians, Jews and Muslims.
.
If someone mentions murder in one paragraph and jaywalkng in the next paragraph, that doesn't mean they are equivalent. Nor that the speaker is Treating them as equivalent.
.
,
,
,
If he had left out Islam and just left in the part about offending Jews amd Christians then the big bright letters on foxnews.com today would be about something else. And this post would be replaced with a different variation of the terrorism-muslim scare technique that hasn't appealed to voetrs since 2004.

...this is just another variation of the eternal Muslim-baiting brought up by desperate Romney surrogates.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
or his values are far outside what we want as Americans
http://www.people-press.org/2012/09/...omneys-comments-viewed-negatively/

Pu

[Edited 2012-09-27 21:32:15]

User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1264 posts, RR: 3
Reply 35, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2349 times:

I agree partly with everybody on this one. I do think the words are poorly chosen; slandering Islam should be no more frowned upon than slandering any other religion.

However viewing his speech as a whole the central message is clear, and I really hate this habit the media have of taking things out of context (c.f. "you didn't build that"). I don't really want politicians wasting time and money figuring out how their speeches may look if quoted out of context, and I tend to always fact-check campaign ads to see if the quotes they use are in context.

Haven't found one yet, but if I do you'll be the first to know.....



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1901 posts, RR: 9
Reply 36, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2341 times:

Quoting pu (Reply 34):
If someone mentions murder in one paragraph and jaywalkng in the next paragraph, that doesn't mean they are equivalent. Nor that the speaker is Treating them as equivalent.

That's not what's going on here though. This is a speech, not a series of essays or books where paragraphs and textual and literary nuances can be clearly laid out. The theme of his speech concerned the future (i.e. "the future must not belong to those who..."), where it's amateurish is him, either on purpose on unintentionally, lumping these actions together allowing such an equivalency to be made.

Quoting pu (Reply 34):
...this is just another variation of the eternal Muslim-baiting brought up by desperate Romney surrogates.

Oh please. I don't believe he necessarily thinks there's a moral equivalency between blasphemy/free speech and murder, but I take issue with him being so cavalier with his words considering his audience at the UN where there are currently 57 nations pushing a resolution to make blasphemy sanctionable.


User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 37, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2311 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 36):
considering his audience at the UN where there are currently 57 nations pushing a resolution to make blasphemy sanctionable.

Which, like all UNGA resolutions, have no enforcement powers, despite what the John Birchers would like to have you believe.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2713 posts, RR: 8
Reply 38, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam."

Putting freedom of speech in the same category as killing Copt's, oppressing woman and resource stealing Dictator's.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
What the President has done is to equate “slandering Islam” with real crimes

Slandering Islam is the same as resource stealing, oppresor of woman evil Dictators. Obama is showing how he values the Prophet Muhammmed in this speech.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 6):
Yep, let's continue with the theme that he's not like the rest of us. He's different. He has different "values" than the rest of America.

Yeah, right. Oh and he's black too!

I suppose that constantly questioning the President's loyalty, constantly implying he's not one of us is the only way to take him down when one can't win by debating actual policy - policy that has real impact on the lives and economic well being of American citizens.

...just sayin'.

Just saying that these types of attacks from the party of race is getting old. Find a real argument.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
What the President has done is to equate Freedom of Speech with real crimes...

Or revealed what he really thinks about Islam.

Quoting imiakhtar (Reply 28):
Dreadnought is not a racist. He is a xenophobe.

Another intellectually dishonest and racist argument.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 39, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2267 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting windy95 (Reply 38):
Obama is showing how he values the Prophet Muhammmed in this speech.

Of course He values Muhammed, he's a muslim you know.

But seriously, How do you peolpe manage to take this all so far out of context? You all make yourselves look like complete bunch of arses.

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
What the President has done is to equate “slandering Islam” with real crimes such as targeting Egyptian Copts and Christians,

Slandering Islam is a real crime in some places, so what he actually did was equate real crimes with real crimes.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 38):
Slandering Islam is the same as resource stealing, oppresor of woman evil Dictators. Obama is showing how he values the Prophet Muhammmed in this speech.

In some cultures, yes and seeing as it was a speech to many dignatories around the globe from numerous different cultures it would be stupid to ignore their beliefs and priorities.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 38):
Another intellectually dishonest and racist argument.
Quoting windy95 (Reply 38):
Or revealed what he really thinks about Islam.

There is about as much evidence for Dreadnaught being a racist as there is for "Barry" being a Muslim.

Fred


User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6787 posts, RR: 34
Reply 40, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2259 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Thread starter):
Either he is a Moron, or his values are far outside what we want as Americans. Freedom of speech was instituted to protect criticism and satire of those who historically are prone to react violently - politicians, clergy, and other people in a position of power, influence.

The real issue is that people are letting Obama off by still blaming some film for the violence. That in and of itself is intellectually disingenuous, a lie, a falsehood, a total misdirection.

It was a terrorist attack that was pre-planned and orchestrated. And the PC-whores in this country still refuse to call Islam what it is, making excuses while painting with a moral relativist brush all the way around.


User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3278 posts, RR: 45
Reply 41, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2256 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 40):
call Islam what it is

And what is it?

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6787 posts, RR: 34
Reply 42, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2237 times:

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 41):
And what is it?

An ideology born of bloodshed that strives to conquer the world.


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 43, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2236 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 32):
His only mention of that film, if he had to mention it at all, should have been limited to, "Deal with it."

And how do you think that would have gone over?

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 33):
There's no outcry for "sensitivity" for the beliefs of others when it's Mormonism, Christianity, or Judaism, but when it comes to Islam, the cries for sensitive and tolerance come out of the woodwork right away.

South Park takes tonnes of slack for it's representations of various religions. I know the Mormons definitely aren't a fan of what Matt Stone and Trey Parker have to say about them.

The voice of Chef actually quit the show a few years back because he was so offended by how they depicted Scientology (I don't think Scientology is an actual religion either, but that's neither here nor there).

Quoting windy95 (Reply 38):
Obama is showing how he values the Prophet Muhammmed in this speech.

As I said earlier: What did you expect? Do you want him to go up there and proclaim "Muhammad is a douchebag"? (rhetorical question) Of course not. Obama's priority right now should be to put out the flames, not ignite them further.

Quoting slider (Reply 42):
An ideology born of bloodshed that strives to conquer the world.

Yeah? Well I guess I better submit to my future Muslim overlords now while I'm ahead  



Flying refined.
User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6787 posts, RR: 34
Reply 44, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2225 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 44):
Yeah? Well I guess I better submit to my future Muslim overlords now while I'm ahead

Submission is exactly the name of the game. That's the whole goal.

Well, not up in here. We stand at the gates of Vienna once again it would seem, except no one really realizes it.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 45, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2222 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 40):
The real issue is that people are letting Obama off by still blaming some film for the violence.

This argument really kills me. I paid keen attention to the events as they unfolded, and almost immediately you had a bunch of people on the right attacking the President for... just because! (created the outrage.) Then they tossed a few BS arguments out before finally deciding on attacking their (I admit) overly-cautious approach on the issue.

So basically many on the right created the outrage THEN decided on a cause for the outrage. In other words, they just got pissed off at him right away and then found a reason for it later. I have lost so much respect for the GOP lately, there is a difference between keeping the other side honest and rational debate and nitpicking everything someone does. The way they are acting, Jesus himself could be President and they'd find something wrong with everything he'd do!

Call the President out when he needs to be, keep him honest. But don't attack every single little flaw... even they know they wouldn't be able to do the job nearly perfect either



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8697 posts, RR: 43
Reply 46, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2208 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 45):
We stand at the gates of Vienna once again it would seem, except no one really realizes it.

...or could it be that nobody realises it because there is nothing to realise?   A wise man once said "In my kingdom, everyone can go to heaven in his own fashion." His kingdom went on to become a major power on the continent in question.

The point is this: Doomsday scenarios of the kind that you repeat are nothing but airheaded claptrap. People who are driven and perverted by their lust for power and influence are the problem, as they have been since time immemorial - no matter which deities they worship.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 47, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days ago) and read 2202 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 45):
Submission is exactly the name of the game. That's the whole goal.

Well, not up in here. We stand at the gates of Vienna once again it would seem, except no one really realizes it.

Do you honestly think Sharia law is going to take over the West and we will be slaves to Muslims? What do you think is going to happen? I hate to judge others, but you sound extremely paranoid of the minority of a religion. There are Muslims in America too you know, besides that one honor killing or whatever, I don't see them losing their minds



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8697 posts, RR: 43
Reply 48, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days ago) and read 2183 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 47):
Do you honestly think Sharia law is going to take over the West and we will be slaves to Muslims?

From what I've read in the past, he believes that this is exactly what every single Muslim in the world is going for.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 49, posted (1 year 10 months 6 days ago) and read 2184 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 47):
Do you honestly think Sharia law is going to take over the West and we will be slaves to Muslims?

It cannot because the First Amendment specifically forbids it.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8467 posts, RR: 1
Reply 50, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

Those who believe that America is about to be a slave state to actual Sharia Law are a greater threat to American liberty and democracy than any actual takeover of American civil law by Islamist law. All of this Obama is coveting with with Islamist and other Obama falsities just shows the desperation that is on the far right in America when they resort to tribalist and xenophobic lingo and action in voter suppression and to prove their baseless points.


"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 51, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2153 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 49):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 47):
Do you honestly think Sharia law is going to take over the West and we will be slaves to Muslims?

It cannot because the First Amendment specifically forbids it.

I know this, I was wondering if he knows this. And on the other side of the pond, laws in Europe are much different, they don't have the same freedom of expression laws (religious-wise) as we do and they are already cracking down. I guess this is the "Red Scare" of my time and oh boy is it over-hyped...

[Edited 2012-09-28 14:44:48]


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 52, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2142 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 51):
I know this, I was wondering if he knows this.

Apparently not. I have yet to see any credible effort to make anything even resembling Sharia law official in the US.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8697 posts, RR: 43
Reply 53, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 51):
And on the other side of the pond, laws in Europe are much different, they don't have the same freedom of expression laws (religious-wise) as we do and they are already cracking down.

Bearing in mind that "we in Europe" have several dozen countries with immense variety between them, I should mention that our history gives some of us perfectly valid reasons to limit the abuse of freedom of speech. It has often been said that every freedom comes with the responsibility to use it wisely, which is as true and important today as it has always been.

Speaking for Germany, we seem to have more of a problem with extremists of our own creation than we do with those who have immigrated... and then there's the trouble we created by failing to accept that immigrants aren't the same as native Germans from day one - exemplified by the term "Gastarbeiter".

Hm. That was just my two € cents.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 54, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2135 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 53):
Bearing in mind that "we in Europe" have several dozen countries with immense variety between them, I should mention that our history gives some of us perfectly valid reasons to limit the abuse of freedom of speech. It has often been said that every freedom comes with the responsibility to use it wisely, which is as true and important today as it has always been.

I know this, I am not even criticizing that. I was saying that Sharia ain't coming the the US, and it ain't coming to Europe (I hear that line a lot and wanted to shoot it down before it even saw the light of day)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6787 posts, RR: 34
Reply 55, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2018 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 48):
From what I've read in the past, he believes that this is exactly what every single Muslim in the world is going for.

Not every single one. Please don't distort what you think I believe. I've gone clearly on record saying that I think islam is not a religion of peace at all, but that there are some peaceful practitioners of it. But I've also elucidated at great length here as to why many scholars think islam cannot undergo a reformation--because it would prove their prophet to be fallible and thus essentially wipe out the entire foundation of their ideology. Which leads to following what the prophet says--which is, in short, a call to arms. That's it in a nutshell.

Why do we in th eWest continue to ignore this?

And anyone been to Dearbornistan lately?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 49):
It cannot because the First Amendment specifically forbids it.

I would certainly hope so, but there are already attempts underway to make defamation of islam a crime..... We bend over to accommodate them yet the same tolerance for other religions is non existent, under the guise of free speech.

It's is illustrative that any joke, cartoon or critique of them, their way of life results in rioting, death, fatwas, destruction and murder. Why do we continue to deny it?


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 56, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2007 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 55):

Off topic, but has it ever crossed your mind that it's comments like these that make some people around the world (regardless of religion) hate the US so much? You are doing your country a huge disservice with your racist, xenophobic, isolationist remarks.

You are so paranoid about Sharia Law taking over, yet just across the border here in Canada, the most multicultural country in the world that embraces all religions with open arms, we haven't experienced anything you so fear. If you treat people with an ounce of respect, you'll get an ounce back. Obama isn't my favourite president, but I at least give him credit for understanding that basic human concept.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8697 posts, RR: 43
Reply 57, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1983 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 55):
Please don't distort what you think I believe.

I was talking about the impression that I got from

Quoting aloges (Reply 48):
what I've read in the past

And anyway, how could I possibly distort what I, myself, think? That's as illogical as the rest of your rants.

Quoting slider (Reply 55):
It's is illustrative that any joke, cartoon or critique of them, their way of life results in rioting, death, fatwas, destruction and murder.

Please illustrate the "rioting, death, fatwas, destruction and murder" that your constant "critique of them" here on a.net has caused. You did say "any", after all...

Quoting slider (Reply 55):
Why do we continue to deny it?

Because it is a lie.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently onlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8793 posts, RR: 24
Reply 58, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1966 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 56):
You are so paranoid about Sharia Law taking over, yet just across the border here in Canada, the most multicultural country in the world that embraces all religions with open arms, we haven't experienced anything you so fear.

Perhaps because Canadians fought back. Some muslims (not all, granted) demanded Sharia family courts, that muslim women not be served by men in professional settings (such as medicine).

Boase, Sharon, "Women's groups fight sharia in Ontario; Two reports submitted by a Muslim women's organization say introducing Islamic law into the province will harm the rights of vulnerable women", Hamilton Spectator, September 16, 2004

Ogilvie, Megan, "Canadian Muslims give mixed reviews on moratorium; Debate urged on Islamic penal code Proposal would halt death penalty Proposal would halt stoning, death penalty Debate urged on Islamic penal code", Toronto Star, April 1, 2005.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 59, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 55):
I would certainly hope so, but there are already attempts underway to make defamation of islam a crime....

Really? And what would that be? I sure hope you're not talking about that comment the President made about the future not belonging to those insulting the Prophet because NOTHING in there implies he's even thinking about changing the law. It's like saying the future doesn't belong to racist-KKK members... well yeah duh. He tried to quell the anger of many around the world, but is he signing an executive order banning defamation of Islam?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 60, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 55):
I would certainly hope so, but there are already attempts underway to make defamation of islam a crime.....

Where? What exact measures are being proposed by lawmakers to make critical statements about Islam or any other religion illegal? Furthermore, what makes you think they will succeed in the first place and not be struck down as a First Amendment violation?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
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