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The Return Of The "American" Station Wagon?  
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 10 months 4 days ago) and read 10671 times:

After the death of the Dodge Magnum in the American market, there has not been a "traditional" station wagon offered by a domestic automaker as numerous cross-over-vehicles (known as CUVs) have flooded the market with vehicles that are smaller than traditional SUVs, taller than the traditional stations, and offering all-wheel drive. Seemingly, the CUV is now suffering from "image problems" similiar to the image held by mini-vans (soccer mom-mobiles, suburban mommie-mobiles, there are numerous unflattering names). Some of these CUVs are huge (the Buick Enclave, Chevy Traverse, GMC Acadia) - as large as a full-sized traditional SUV like the Yukon or Tahoe, but being on a unit body instead of a rugged body-on-frame construction, the CUVs are usually lighter weight than their truck-based counterparts.

2014 Opel Insignia / Buick Regal Wagon


Ford Mondeo/Fusion Wagon


Well, in an effort to capture younger, more "hip", more urban, upwardly mobile buyers that have been buying the VW Sportwagen or the Volvo XC-series tall wagons - GM is going to market a Buick Regal station wagon for the 2014 model year according to the automotive press, and the press has now definitely captured test mules of this new Buick (and definitely NOT a Opel Insignia!!) being hot weather tested in the Mojave Desert. In response, it is now believed that Ford will market the European market Mondeo station wagon (official photos above) as a Fusion in the USA, to battle the upcoming Regal station wagon. Word is that Chevrolet could also "easily" market a station wagon version of its Cruze sedan here - GM had previously said that it has absolutely no plans to sell the European/Asian market Cruze wagon in America, but GM also stated that they had no absolutely no plans to sell the diesel-engined Cruze here, which they have now announced that Chevy will now sell in North America in 2013. These wagon models are all fuel-efficient (helps with the federal government's CAFE standards) and the engineering and tooling is already "baked in" so there are minimal costs for these variants.

I don't know about the rest of the motorheads, but I think the idea of 21st century Buick and Ford station wagons is uber-cool!!

Source and more photos: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-buick-regal-sport-wagon-spy-shots


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
123 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10651 times:

meh...

I am one guy who likes road trips with my partner. I am going for a VW Golf. Good gas mileage and reliability. Around here, I am seeing more and more small cars and not so many road warriors. These ones don't impress me much.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7121 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10643 times:

If I ever drove an American Station Wagon it would not doubt be this one:
http://image.automobilemag.com/f/30508682+w750+st0/2011-cadillac-CTS-V-wagon-black-diamond-edition-front-three-quarter.jpg

I do like the style of both of those two also though.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10639 times:

Any effort to bring back the station wagon is a noble effort I fully support, even if it's these little compacts shown above.
The current Ford Flex is a decent tell station wagon and I the discontinued Chrysler Pacifica was a great wagon alternative.
The best thing about the Ford Flex is that it's boxy and has available woodgrain side panels.  
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
After the death of the Dodge Magnum in the American market, there has not been a "traditional" station wagon offered


Daimler/Chrysler did a terrible job marketing that vehicle. It's first model year, it was shown in the back of the brochure it's debut model year.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
I am seeing more and more small cars and not so many road warriors. These ones don't impress me much.



The above cars are small cars.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4373 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10633 times:

Great idea, the station wagon died a premature death over here with the endless procession of SUV's



Bring them back and I'd like to buy one, especially a RWD or AWD version.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineaf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10631 times:

I've been hoping station wagons would catch back on in the American market. I wonder if there would be a way to have a third row seating configuration in these wagons? Similar to the third row bench seats in the older Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable wagons.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2060 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10623 times:

I actually quite like our local wagon, the Commodore Sportwagon. Packing a 6.0L V8, they look good on the road too. Good alternative to getting a SUV. I think a fair few people 'need' the space but don't really want a massive car, these are a good compromise although they're fairly long for your typical SWPL suburbanites.



User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10625 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 2):
If I ever drove an American Station Wagon it would not doubt be this one:

I'm partial to the Mercury Colony Park.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/1974MercuryColonyPark.jpg

Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 5):
I wonder if there would be a way to have a third row seating configuration in these wagons? Similar to the third row bench seats in the older Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable wagons.

The older Ford Country Squire and Mercury Colony Park offered that along with all the other full-size GM and Chrysler wagons.


[Edited 2012-09-26 22:50:15]


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10562 times:

The Dodge Magnum is supposedly coming back in 2014 so that it can be sold in Europe as a Lancia/Chrysler. They sold the Magnum in Europe (and a few other places) as the Chrysler 300 Touring (Built in Austria by Magna Steyr.) and presumably in the European countries in which the Chrysler brand was retained over Lancia, it would be sold as that. By 2014, there is supposed to be a new Chrysler 300/Lancia Thema that shares a platform with the Alfa Romeo 169 and Maserati Quattroporte.

One of the issues with the Magnum was bad timing. One of the knocks on it was the fuel economy but also it started to lose sales after the first few years and was one of four models discontinued when Chrysler was restructuring. Dodge essentially replaced it (as well as the short wheelbase Caravan) with the Journey.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 4):
Great idea, the station wagon died a premature death over here with the endless procession of SUV's

I think the minivan is what killed the station wagon and the SUV/CUV has killed the minivan.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10532 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 8):
By 2014, there is supposed to be a new Chrysler 300/Lancia Thema that shares a platform with the Alfa Romeo 169 and Maserati Quattroporte.



Sounds like good news. I hope the American versions will have the Maserati interior or bring back Corinthian leather.
Would be even better if Chrysler makes their version of the Dodge Challenger as a convertible with Maserati interior and call it the Lebaron or TC....



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10533 times:

Greetings, Motorheads : Is the Merc 'R' class considered a station wagon? Anybody ridden in one?

Thanks!



User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10531 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
After the death of the Dodge Magnum in the American market, there has not been a "traditional" station wagon offered

Daimler/Chrysler did a terrible job marketing that vehicle. It's first model year, it was shown in the back of the brochure it's debut model year.

   Sadly, Ford has been giving its Flex similar attention (or lack there of) even despite the 2013 facelift it received.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 8):
One of the issues with the Magnum was bad timing. One of the knocks on it was the fuel economy but also it started to lose sales after the first few years and was one of four models discontinued when Chrysler was restructuring.

That plus the fact that it was poorly marketed (per Superfly's earlier comment) and poorly conceived spacewise.

Sure it was RWD-based, had an available V8 and sat on a long 120" wheelbase; but it lacked the one thing full-size station wagons were known for... space. Due to the vehicle being too short and too narrow; its cargo capacity wasn't that much more than a compact Focus wagon. Epic Fail/Deal-breaker IMHO.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
The best thing about the Ford Flex is that it's boxy and has available woodgrain side panels.

Available Aftermarket woodgrain side panels. 
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
In response, it is now believed that Ford will market the European market Mondeo station wagon (official photos above) as a Fusion in the USA

I'm surprised that, for starters, that Ford hasn't started offering its new Focus wagon to the U.S. market. IIRC, the Focus wagon is available in the Canadian market.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1789 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10529 times:

I'm currently driving a SW Mondeo.

Still too big for my taste (try parking one on some of the older parkings in some cities) with an awful turning circle but you can't deny it has tons of space to spare while still handling like a proper car and not a van.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4805 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10528 times:

Subaru Legacy has sold more as a station wagon in most markets than as a sedan.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10519 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
Available Aftermarket woodgrain side panels.



True but sanctioned by Ford.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
Due to the vehicle being too short and too narrow; its cargo capacity wasn't that much more than a compact Focus wagon. Epic Fail/Deal-breaker IMHO.


They need to lower the belt-line and raise the roof a bit over the cargo bay. I didn't like the chop-shop roof-line appearance. I wish the Imperial had went in to production because it was the only car in this series that didn't have the low roof-line.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7123 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10505 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
GM is going to market a Buick Regal station wagon for the 2014 model year according to the automotive press, and the press has now definitely captured test mules of this new Buick (and definitely NOT a Opel Insignia!!) being hot weather tested in the Mojave Desert.

How can they say definitely NOT a Opel Insignia, because that's what a Buick Regalm is a badge engineered Insignia.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 6):
I actually quite like our local wagon, the Commodore Sportwagon.

Holden lost a lot of fleet sales with the VE Sportwagon, it's a lot smaller than the VZ Wagon.

Here in Norway wagon sales would be 50/50 with sedans for most models and in some cases like the A4, 3 Series wagons might even make the majority of sales, Volvo V70's massivley outnumber sales of the S80 sedan, as do V60 to the S60. The same would also be try in Sweden and Denmark from my observations.


User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 527 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10503 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Ford Country Squire

I wonder if that would pass the pedestrian crash test.

I guess it depends on if your driving or not...if you are then just wash the blood off so yes a pass.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7600 posts, RR: 32
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10491 times:

We passed a old Buick station wagon the other day - my 10 year old grandson said "That looks like a cool kind of car to have"

I told him that his mother's mini-van was just a grown up version of a station wagon.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5678 posts, RR: 45
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 10480 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
Holden lost a lot of fleet sales with the VE Sportwagon,

Not sure though where they lost them to.. there is precious little else in the Aus/NZ domestic wagon market, although it seems there are more RAV4/Xtrail/CRV type vehicles in company fleets,especcially with companys that use the branding of fleet vehicles as a marketing exercise.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7121 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10463 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 10):
Greetings, Motorheads : Is the Merc 'R' class considered a station wagon? Anybody ridden in one?


My family had one when it first came out got a crazy good lease deal because they wanted them on the road. Its a big car and not the best looking thing in the road but it was extremely comfortable and drove fairly well for such a large odd shaped thing.
Check out its handling in this high speed chase from Miami: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_gnlotGYvI&feature=related

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
I'm partial to the Mercury Colony Park.


Well I do remember being driven to school in my friend's father wagon: One of these. And it was probably around 8-10 years old even then.
http://img1.classistatic.com/cps/kj/110828/787r1/06046kd_20.jpeg



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10456 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):

Holy moly, those things are big enough to live in.

Anyway it's interesting. It seems that wagons are slowly clawing their way back, but not the way they used to be, as square-rigged but extremely functional and capacious sedan derivatives, but as style statements of their own, as the car-based utility now does a lot of the former job. Just look at the Cadillac CTS wagon- it's rockin' for sure, but the trunk looks only marginally bigger than that of the sedan because of the rakish sweep of the rear glass.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2948 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10442 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 18):
Not sure though where they lost them to..

SUV's -- specifically the Ford Territory...


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3571 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10411 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
The above cars are small cars.

The Fusion is a in the Midsize class.


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10408 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 19):
Check out its handling in this high speed chase from Miam

Amazing! thanks for posting. Now the R class now has Gansta cred...I want me one!


User currently offlineKaphias From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10386 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 13):
Subaru Legacy has sold more as a station wagon in most markets than as a sedan.

One of the best wagons ever made, I believe... proud to own one. AWD, supreme reliability, and you can sleep comfortably in the back. Couldn't ask for much more, except for power. One day I'd like to take a 1997/2005 version and put a WRX STI engine in.
I'm also a fan of the Magnum, I know they did an SRT-8 model but I'd like to see if one could cram a Viper engine in. Would be a good competitor to that sweet Hennessy machine!



Flown on: C150, C172, C206, Beaver, Otter, Jetstream 32, Q400, CRJ7/9, E135/40/45, A320, B732/4/7/8/9, B744, B752, B763
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12339 posts, RR: 25
Reply 25, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10475 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Seemingly, the CUV is now suffering from "image problems" similiar to the image held by mini-vans (soccer mom-mobiles, suburban mommie-mobiles, there are numerous unflattering names). Some of these CUVs are huge (the Buick Enclave, Chevy Traverse, GMC Acadia) - as large as a full-sized traditional SUV like the Yukon or Tahoe, but being on a unit body instead of a rugged body-on-frame construction, the CUVs are usually lighter weight than their truck-based counterparts.

IMHO totally predictable cycle. Minivans are dull people haulers with unibodies. Pre-00s vintage SUVs are body-on-frame trucks with truck features such as 4WD, yet driveable enough so that mommie and daddie can both enjoy them. Sales shift to SUVs. Vendors want to find a way to make more money, and EPA rules are such that selling a lot of heavier vehicles is a drag on the bottom line. It's easier to have common parts between cars and trucks, thus the CUV, which isn't really a cross-over, it's a car with a taller body, some done better, some done worse. CUVs lose their uniqueness, fall into the minivan role of dull people haulers with unibodies, customers are bored.

Quoting flymia (Reply 2):
If I ever drove an American Station Wagon it would not doubt be this one:

It looks like a hearse to me, so the obvious rejoinder is "I *would* be caught dead in one!".

Say, we haven't had a hearse thread in a while... What vehicles are being used for the "last ride" these days?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
Any effort to bring back the station wagon is a noble effort I fully support

All is right with the world: Someone starts a station wagon thread, 'Fly pulls out the wonderful photos of 70s station wagons, heaven on earth!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8403 posts, RR: 3
Reply 26, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10461 times:

Quoting mad99 (Reply 16):
I guess it depends on if your driving or not...if you are then just wash the blood off so yes a pass.

Excellent pedestrian viscosity on those old behemoths!

I favor wagons over SUVs any day. Give me the lowest fuel burn and the best vehicle. Something like 328i gas wagon would work well.


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 27, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 10490 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
That plus the fact that it was poorly marketed (per Superfly's earlier comment) and poorly conceived spacewise.

The third row seating left a lot to be desired if you were over 5'9". I remember a coworker at my last job rented one when they first came out and I sat in that last row and there was maybe an inch at best between the top of my head and the headliner. That angled roof is a design trend that followed into the crossover market and even the new Jeep Liberkee (Some sites are referring to the next generation Cherokee/Liberty as Liberkee as Jeep is rumored to be settling on one name for the vehicle worldwide.) is being moved in that direction.

The more I think about it, if they do revive the Magnum design, they ought to sell it here in North America as the Chrysler 300 Touring as I think the 300 styling just looks better as a wagon than something similar to the Charger (which would be the likely vehicle styling used on a Dodge Magnum.). The conceptual renderings of a possible new version would look more stylish as a Chrysler and maybe also have an SRT version. A thought I had was to pull out the third row seating, move the second row back 6-8 inches and offer it up as a livery vehicle. Chrysler is supposedly dropping the Town & Country as a minivan (Leaving the minivan segment to Dodge.) and relaunching it as a crossover and early leaked renderings look a lot like the old Pacifica.


User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10452 times:

Quoting Kaphias (Reply 24):
One day I'd like to take a 1997/2005 version and put a WRX STI engine in.

There used to be some Japan-only super-Legacies with weird appellations on their names that did indeed throw in much more sporty engines than the ones offered in most markets. I don't know the specifics though.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
That plus the fact that it was poorly marketed (per Superfly's earlier comment) and poorly conceived spacewise.

Sure it was RWD-based, had an available V8 and sat on a long 120" wheelbase; but it lacked the one thing full-size station wagons were known for... space. Due to the vehicle being too short and too narrow; its cargo capacity wasn't that much more than a compact Focus wagon. Epic Fail/Deal-breaker IMHO.

Back when the Magnum was new/newish (around 2005) my family was in the market for a good all-around road trip wagon and we sat in one at a Dodge dealer. The cut-and-shut roof, gun-slit window look is acceptable for a sedan like its Chrysler 300 stablemate, but for a wagon it creates a lot of problems for visibility (you have more metal to have to see around but the windows are just as tiny) and utility (it's harder to carry a tall object or person.) The Magnum specifically also had the problem of the fairly raked rear glass which adds style points but changes the dimensions of the tailgate opening and does weird things to the shape of the cargo area as a whole. Yes, people laugh at the unapologetically squared-off tails of the early-90s Camry and Accord wagons as well as the typical Volvo theme (we ended up with a V70R which my father put 100,000+ miles on) but they're made that way for a reason. Although in absolute fairness I seem to remember 2005's Focus wagon having a pretty big load space for something its size at least in cubic feet, though I don't remember what it was like in the metal.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 29, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10391 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
Here in Norway wagon sales would be 50/50 with sedans for most models and in some cases like the A4, 3 Series wagons might even make the majority of sales, Volvo V70's massivley outnumber sales of the S80 sedan, as do V60 to the S60. The same would also be try in Sweden and Denmark from my observations.

Here any car will have a wagon version and sell, even small hatchbacks like the Peugeot 207 and Renault Clio.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 21):
SUV's -- specifically the Ford Territory...

It's a CUV rather.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1302 posts, RR: 3
Reply 30, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 10365 times:

I've been driving a BMW 530d Touring for a couple of years now. Wife wanted for an X5 or ML, I put foot down. She whinged, she pleaded, she damn near almost cried, but somehow I managed to keep the foot down.

When she drives the 5 around and comments on someone driving an X5/ML/Cayenne, where it used to be "I want one" it's now "tosser". For she too has seen the light of far, far, better handling qualities, a much lower and convenient loading height, all the space you need and more, orders of magnitude easier to park (hasn't stopped her from scratching the front corners, of course), more speed and, not least, a far lower fuel bill.

I've always maintained SUVs are for tossers, unless you absolutely must tow something the size of a house, and live on an unpaved and uncleared road with a 15% gradient in an area prone to year-round white winters. Wagons are really, really, big in Western Europe. Move towards the east, however, and the attraction fades the further you go. Strangely enough a SUV is socially acceptable and purveys the correct image in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, whereas a wagon is seen more or less as a delivery van which no self-respecting person will buy as a private vehicle.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 13
Reply 31, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10346 times:

I can't believe I'm saying this but that Ford Mondeo wagon isn't half bad looking. Now, if they could put wood or imitation wood panneling on it's side and revive the Country Squire!


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8403 posts, RR: 3
Reply 32, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10340 times:

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 30):
trangely enough a SUV is socially acceptable and purveys the correct image in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, whereas a wagon is seen more or less as a delivery van which no self-respecting person will buy as a private vehicle.

It all depends on duty cycle. SUV and pickup trucks make sense for those very, very few people who (as you say) do heavy off-roading and towing of essential, heavy equipment.

We have an XC70 around that can tow a fairly large boat (3000 lbs). It's no gas-saving vehicle (4300 lbs unloaded, 5000 loaded). The rig overall weighs 8,000 lbs. The XC70 can also handle more off-roading than all but 0.01% of SUVs _ever_ encounter in their service lives.

This leads us to a suggestion that 99.99% of SUVs are purchased not for any capability of any kind, but for the same reason sheep say "baaah" with a glassy, idiotic look in their eyes. And who knows why that is.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 33, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10319 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 31):
I can't believe I'm saying this but that Ford Mondeo wagon isn't half bad looking. Now, if they could put wood or imitation wood panneling on it's side and revive the Country Squire!

Can someone explain the attraction of imitation wood panels to me ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19400 posts, RR: 58
Reply 34, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10317 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 19):
Well I do remember being driven to school in my friend's father wagon: One of these. And it was probably around 8-10 years old even then.

We had something like that. Two of them, in fact. Oldsmobiles, IIRC. We had a brown one that was gasoline-powered and one that took diesel. Made that classic diesel clatter, too.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 35, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10306 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Well, in an effort to capture younger, more "hip", more urban, upwardly mobile buyers that have been buying the VW Sportwagen or the Volvo XC-series tall wagons - GM is going to market a Buick Regal station wagon for the 2014 model year according to the automotive press, and the press has now definitely captured test mules of this new Buick (and definitely NOT a Opel Insignia!!) being hot weather tested in the Mojave Desert. In response, it is now believed that Ford will market the European market Mondeo station wagon (official photos above) as a Fusion in the USA, to battle the upcoming Regal station wagon.

It makes sense. The increase of "world car" type designs makes it easier to simply import wagons from other markets that can survive with fewer sales.

Quoting comorin (Reply 10):
Greetings, Motorheads : Is the Merc 'R' class considered a station wagon?

Basically. I see far more GLs, MLs, and even E-Class wagons on the road than those though. The R class is popular with fleet type operators though.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 30):
Strangely enough a SUV is socially acceptable and purveys the correct image in Eastern Europe and the Middle East, whereas a wagon is seen more or less as a delivery van which no self-respecting person will buy as a private vehicle.

Eastern European roads probably have a lot to do with that. And in the Middle East, why the hell not have an SUV?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 32):
It all depends on duty cycle. SUV and pickup trucks make sense for those very, very few people who (as you say) do heavy off-roading and towing of essential, heavy equipment.

That's exactly what SUVs were for the most part before the government started helping.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 33):
Can someone explain the attraction of imitation wood panels to me ?

There is none.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
and one that took diesel. Made that classic diesel clatter, too.

That was one of the worst cars of all time.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10283 times:

I will say though that when my family regularly visited rural Maine and we had an '03 Jeep Liberty to navigate around the dirt roads and unmaintained driveways and so forth, it worked really well. It also had a pretty silly option on it that gave us these four huge spotlights above the windshield, which weren't altogether practical on the road owing to illegality, but were a nice thing to have in the middle of the woods with no streetlamps within a fifty mile radius. Decreasing time and frequency in our visits meant it wasn't practical to hold onto, but it's a situation where an off-road-focused SUV wasn't a conceit. Such situations do exist, they're just rare. Ride quality was a disaster, engine was a 3.7L boat anchor (that much displacement and only ~200ish HP is a bit shameful in a "modern" car,) and when I drove it at non-rock-crawling speeds the steering had this spooky quality to it where turning it a bit for a slight corner did affect the car's trajectory, but in a sort of delayed and difficult to measure way. But it never let us down in an awkward road quality situation, unlike the aforementioned Volvo V70R which somehow got its frame bent on a rough road in Joshua Tree National Park one time. Although I suspect that was the low ride height- I think an XC70 on the same platform would've managed, and besides, it was pretty dumb to drive that road in that car anyhow.

User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7123 posts, RR: 3
Reply 37, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days ago) and read 10270 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 35):
It makes sense. The increase of "world car" type designs makes it easier to simply import wagons from other markets that can survive with fewer sales.

Which is a load of garbage, it's really just a nice way of saying we are going to sell the better cars built by our overseas subisiaries rather than designing and developing North American only vehicles which the rest of the world doesn't want. The Europeans and Japanese have been building "world cars" since pretty much the inception of the Automobile it's only the US makers with their domestic product which fliew in the face of reality.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8403 posts, RR: 3
Reply 38, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days ago) and read 10253 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 36):
'03 Jeep Liberty

Rented one of those. Didn't like it compared to a ZJ Grand Cherokee, but it worked okay.

The Chrysler Pacifica from the same time period I liked a lot when I rented one.

Also rented a Chrysler Aspen in that period... huge 5.7l Hemi boat! It floated and heaved, just a ridiculous piece of shit, really.

Chrysler really has come a long way since then.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 39, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days ago) and read 10255 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 37):
The Europeans and Japanese have been building "world cars" since pretty much the inception of the Automobile it's only the US makers with their domestic product which fliew in the face of reality.

American car manufacturers have been really slow with the whole "world car" idea even though it seems like common sense because of how they were set up dating back to the 1920s or earlier. Ford started importing cars, but fairly quickly established local factories and over time the overseas divisions became more or less autonomous. GM simply bought up Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden (and later Isuzu and Daewoo) which again were effectively separate from their American operations. It probably didn't help that the crossovers from the foreign divisions to the US met with mixed success. Really it just took serious problems to shock the American car companies into selling the same models worldwide.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19400 posts, RR: 58
Reply 40, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days ago) and read 10249 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 35):
That was one of the worst cars of all time.

You know what model it was? I was little (grade school). I remember feeling different because most of the other kids' parents drove sedans.

Why was it one of the worst cars of all time? I'm not disputing, just curious.


User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days ago) and read 10243 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):

Why was it one of the worst cars of all time? I'm not disputing, just curious.

I believe the diesel engine in particular had a very poor reputation for blowing itself up, like the cylinder liners were really weak or something. At any rate critics cite it as one reason diesel took so long to become popular in the United States.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 42, posted (1 year 10 months 3 days ago) and read 10233 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):
Why was it one of the worst cars of all time? I'm not disputing, just curious.

It was the engine more than the car. (Although giant land yachts of that period were no bargain no matter what powered them) Oldsmobile developed three diesel engines to cope with the oil crises, which were used in various GM models so I'd have a hard time pinning down which model it would have been, but it's likely better that you forgot.

It may have been a Custom Cruiser, which was available with the diesel from the late seventies through the mid eighties. Often on "worst cars" lists they are listed as a group, sandwiched somewhere among the Pinto, Gremlin, Cimarron, and the various Communist entries. (Yugo, Trabant, anything made by British Leyland, et. al.)

Just digging around a bit, even the Wikipedia page details the engines' failings, which is what they are probably best known for. Even today, I would argue that some of Americans' general aversion to diesel stems from their experience with GM diesels.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Diesel_V6_engine

[Edited 2012-09-27 22:05:00]


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19400 posts, RR: 58
Reply 43, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10237 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 42):
It may have been a Custom Cruiser, which was available with the diesel from the late seventies through the mid eighties.

That sounds right! It looks exactly like this except one was chocolate brown and one was black (both with faux wood; Sfly would be proud).



I don't remember any problems with the diesel engine (but then, I was little), but I do seem to recall that the brown (gasoline) car stayed around a lot longer than the black.

BTW, lest anyone accuse us a.nutters of being strange nerds, check out the URL of the pic above...


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1262 posts, RR: 3
Reply 44, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 10233 times:

I LOVE STATION WAGONS!

My wife and I just bought a VW Passat Wagon and it is fantastic! So much room, so easy to drive, much cooler than some crappy SUV. Far better visibility too, plus you don't need a stepladder to get in and out of them. You can also get longer stuff in them than an SUV. We can cart around all sorts of junk from Home Depot.

I really hope they make a comeback. In an ideal world ours would have wood paneling too, but I must reluctantly concede that gas mileage might be an issue if we added 2 tons of cladding.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 45, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10191 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17):
We passed a old Buick station wagon the other day - my 10 year old grandson said "That looks like a cool kind of car to have"

I told him that his mother's mini-van was just a grown up version of a station wagon.

How is one more "grown up" than the other when they suit the same purpose and cater to the same target buyer?


Quoting Revelation (Reply 25):
All is right with the world: Someone starts a station wagon thread, 'Fly pulls out the wonderful photos of 70s station wagons, heaven on earth!

Just have to remind the young kids around here what a proper station wagon really looks like.

Quoting comorin (Reply 23):
Now the R class now has Gansta cred...

Huh?
The only Mercedes with Gangster cred would be a black Mercedes S-class sedan.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 43):
That sounds right! It looks exactly like this except one was chocolate brown and one was black (both with faux wood; Sfly would be proud).

Your folks had great taste in vehicles. How come that wasn't passed down?  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSmithAir747 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1622 posts, RR: 28
Reply 46, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10178 times:

I would be so happy to see the American station wagons return!

I grew up with station wagons:

1) A green 1978 Chrysler LeBaron Town & Country (M-body) woody wagon--the first station wagon I remember in my family. It is my dream (still) to have one of my own. One time, one of my siblings (no one ever fessed up) spilled a can of lavender paint in the back seat (shortly after we bought it in 1978); for years, there was residual lavender paint stain down in the space under the seat and on the seatbelts.

2) A brown 1976 Buick Century Luxus station wagon--it was huge. It was able to tow our family camping trailer.

3) A blue 1986 Chevrolet Cavalier station wagon. It was the first car I drove, from when I got my licence in 1995 to when I bought my own car in 1996. Dad taught me to drive in this one. I took him on some very wild drives in it, but he never had to take me out to eat at Penguin Point (the family tradition was, that whenever one of the boys nearly killed Dad whilst learning to drive, he would take him out to eat at the local Penguin Point franchise to thank him for not killing him).

4) My mom now drives a dark blue 1998 Volvo XC-70 station wagon (since she bought it in 2005). Whenever I get home to Fort Wayne, IN, at Christmas time to visit her, I drive it a lot, since I love station wagons. I was with her the night she bought it at the local Volvo franchise.

Myself, I have had to haul my carcass and my stuff on two major moves--once in 2007, moving from Fort Wayne, IN, to San Francisco, and again, this year (September 2012) from San Francisco to Calgary, AB. A big station wagon would have been a big help in moving my stuff each time. These are times when I really wish I had a big wagon to haul my stuff around in.

SmithAir747



I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4805 posts, RR: 9
Reply 47, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10141 times:

Quoting Kaphias (Reply 24):
Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 13):
Subaru Legacy has sold more as a station wagon in most markets than as a sedan.

One of the best wagons ever made, I believe... proud to own one. AWD, supreme reliability, and you can sleep comfortably in the back. Couldn't ask for much more, except for power. One day I'd like to take a 1997/2005 version and put a WRX STI engine in.

They do make a GT version (2.5l 265hp 0-60mph 5.4s) that not enough for a wagon? For sure an STi version would be great... I would expect an STi version to make at least 300hp and do sub-5s 0-60mph times.
Speaking of, it is easy enough to fit a larger turbo charger (may require replacing the fuel pump also) and a better exhaust system which will give you about 20% more power combined.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 48, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10124 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
Quoting comorin (Reply 23):
Now the R class now has Gansta cred...

Huh?
The only Mercedes with Gangster cred would be a black Mercedes S-class sedan.

Please view all of the video that Mr. Flymia has kindly provided for us:

Quoting flymia (Reply 19):
Check out its handling in this high speed chase from Miami: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_gnlotGYvI&feature=related


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7121 posts, RR: 9
Reply 49, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10104 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
Huh?The only Mercedes with Gangster cred would be a black Mercedes S-class sedan.

Don't forget the G-Wagon also. As to the R-Class, it can be used as a pretty good get away car with room for the kids too! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_gnlotGYvI&feature=related



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3571 posts, RR: 3
Reply 50, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10066 times:

The Mercedes R class was discontinued.

User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 51, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10029 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 49):

Thanks! but the link is for the R class that you posted before.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 52, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10003 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 48):
Please view all of the video that Mr. Flymia has kindly provided for us:
Quoting flymia (Reply 49):
Don't forget the G-Wagon also. As to the R-Class, it can be used as a pretty good get away car with room for the kids too!

Not seeing the gangster connection.

Quoting SmithAir747 (Reply 46):
I grew up with station wagons:

Lucky you. My family never had a station wagon. It was always a treat riding in back of our family friend's station wagon with the Girl Scouts when I was a kid.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19400 posts, RR: 58
Reply 53, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9996 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
Your folks had great taste in vehicles. How come that wasn't passed down?

"Worst car of all time..." who had great taste in vehicles now?

My dad had a 1984 Porsche 944 that he claimed he would let me inherit. And then he sold it.  


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 54, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9965 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 53):
My dad had a 1984 Porsche 944 that he claimed he would let me inherit. And then he sold it.

The early ones weren't as good as later variants with airbags. I almost ended up buying an 87 944 Turbo this summer until I decided I should get a job first.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19400 posts, RR: 58
Reply 55, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9968 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 54):
The early ones weren't as good as later variants with airbags. I almost ended up buying an 87 944 Turbo this summer until I decided I should get a job first.

Yah... good plan.

But I will tell you, when you hit the accelerator in that car (5-speed manual trans, of course), that thing moved.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 56, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9970 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 55):
But I will tell you, when you hit the accelerator in that car (5-speed manual trans, of course), that thing moved.

There's 1980s fast and then there's 2012 fast. Even a Nissan Maxima can make a 0-60 time under six seconds, which could blow away all but the highest spec 944s. That said, it's still a wonderful sports car and prices are low but they do take significant care and feeding.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 57, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9968 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 53):
"Worst car of all time..." who had great taste in vehicles now?



Your folks had great taste in cars.  
That little 944 could fit in the cargo bay of that Custom Cruiser.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 58, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 9960 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 2):
If I ever drove an American Station Wagon it would not doubt be this one:

Ah, the damn Cadillac CTS wagon - how could I forget the CTS wagon! It is indeed made domestically, although in very small numbers. And the V-series wagon is quite the hot-rod. Personally, I absolutely LOVE to CTS-V coupe....

Quoting comorin (Reply 10):
Greetings, Motorheads : Is the Merc 'R' class considered a station wagon? Anybody ridden in one?

Mercedes considered the R-class a cross-over, or a sport-tourer in Mercedes-speak. The R-class in no longer sold in the USA due to very poor sales (less than 3,000 units per year since 2009). Remarkably, the R-class sells rather well in Mexico, and it is still sold (and assembled) there - mostly with sales going to livery and taxi companies.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 59, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9928 times:

In Mexico, fewer that 300 Golf wagons are sold each year, VW sells like 2500 tiguans, and the Golf has more equipment, more space, better interiors and its 35% cheaper to buy and maintain...

Hence I bought a Golf Wagon now its 2 years old...perfect car, super big inside, will carry almost anything and drives like a car not a boat...

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f64/redbarchetta54/7fa6931f.jpg
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f64/redbarchetta54/efd017e8.jpg

Its a shame most buying public wil big a more expensive, not as big INSIDE, and lacking the dynamics to make it a long distance tourer...



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9907 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 53):
My dad had a 1984 Porsche 944 that he claimed he would let me inherit. And then he sold it.

My grandfather had a 944 from around that time. He flipped it. Sure was a good thing he was wearing his seat belt that day.


User currently offlineDL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1926 posts, RR: 9
Reply 61, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 9896 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 56):
There's 1980s fast and then there's 2012 fast. Even a Nissan Maxima can make a 0-60 time under six seconds, which could blow away all but the highest spec 944s

And while 1960s-70s musclecars are fast, their lack of sound insulation and relative crudeness make them feel much faster than todays' performance cars. I'm surprised more young drivers don't kill themselves with the powerful cars of today.



This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 62, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 9866 times:

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 61):
And while 1960s-70s musclecars are fast, their lack of sound insulation and relative crudeness make them feel much faster than todays' performance cars.

Lack of handling, braking, and safety features made using what speed they did have more scary.

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 61):
I'm surprised more young drivers don't kill themselves with the powerful cars of today.

Not really. With all of the modern safety and performance enhancements it's easier for average drivers to get closer to the limits of the car, for better or worse. Conversely, it also allows car companies to artificially lower the limits to keep people out of trouble more than they could, or simply bothered to, before.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 63, posted (1 year 10 months 2 days ago) and read 9848 times:

A 1972 Olds Custom Cruiser was my childhood station wagon, It belonged to an outside sales manager at the company that my Mother worked for. The sales manager was fired for some shady reason, and my Mom (the office manager) got to drive it as a company car for about 4 or 5 months. She hated it, and was very glad when she was able to pick out her own company car (A red 1973 Pontiac LeMans coupe) and get rid of this "tacky battleship".

1972 Olds Custom Crusier


Personally, as a grade-school kid, I loved the Custom Cruiser. Loved everything about it, from the "glide-away" tailgate (aka Clam Shell door), the power windows and locks, and the HUGE third row seat in the "way-back" that allowed me to spread out without fightling with my older sister. We used this car for a whole summer of vacationing on the New Jersey seashore - driving back and forth to Philadelphia on the Atlantic City Expressway while the car sucked down gasoline by the tanker-truck full. It was an awesome vehicle for its time.

]

[Edited 2012-09-28 22:23:53]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3065 posts, RR: 5
Reply 64, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9837 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 17):
We passed a old Buick station wagon the other day - my 10 year old grandson said "That looks like a cool kind of car to have"

I told him that his mother's mini-van was just a grown up version of a station wagon.

How is one more "grown up" than the other when they suit the same purpose and cater to the same target buyer?

Perhaps saying "A minivan is just a station wagon with a serious thyroid condition" would have been closer to the truth.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 41):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):

Why was it one of the worst cars of all time? I'm not disputing, just curious.

I believe the diesel engine in particular had a very poor reputation for blowing itself up, like the cylinder liners were really weak or something. At any rate critics cite it as one reason diesel took so long to become popular in the United States.

The Oldsmobile diesel engine(s) are typical of GM thinking from the 1970s through the 1980s: Take a basically good idea (offering a fuel-efficient diesel engine in the full-size cars), try to execute said idea on the cheap (modify a mediocre existing V8 to handle more than double it's original compression ratio), rush the project to market before all the bugs are worked out, face massive recalls and loss of consumer confidence when the vehicles start failing prematurely left and right, continue developing it until all or most of the problems are solved, and then pull the plug on it once it is finally as good as it was promised to be at introduction. See also: Chevrolet Vega, Chevrolet Citation, and Pontiac Fiero.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 39):
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 37):
The Europeans and Japanese have been building "world cars" since pretty much the inception of the Automobile it's only the US makers with their domestic product which fliew in the face of reality.

American car manufacturers have been really slow with the whole "world car" idea even though it seems like common sense because of how they were set up dating back to the 1920s or earlier. Ford started importing cars, but fairly quickly established local factories and over time the overseas divisions became more or less autonomous. GM simply bought up Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden (and later Isuzu and Daewoo) which again were effectively separate from their American operations. It probably didn't help that the crossovers from the foreign divisions to the US met with mixed success. Really it just took serious problems to shock the American car companies into selling the same models worldwide.

It's worth remembering that until relatively recently Europe and the US had very different emission and safety standards for automobiles, and adapting European cars to US standards was a very expensive proposition that was seen as worth the investment only on higher-end makes such as Mercedes, Porsche, and BMW. Since emission and safety standards have become much more similar between the US and Europe in the last twenty years or so, it is far, far easier today for manufacturers to design "world cars" that can, with minimal modifications, be sold anywhere on the planet than it was in the past.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 65, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9827 times:

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 61):
I'm surprised more young drivers don't kill themselves with the powerful cars of today.


Fewer young people are driving today. The cost of cars have gone up, high unemployment in this group, higher driving ages in some states and indoctrination in to environmentalist beliefs by some academics are all to blame for fewer young drivers. The 'hip' cars marketed to younger buyers today are mostly small greenmobiles/hybrids that are not sporty at all.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 63):
A 1972 Olds Custom Cruiser was my childhood station wagon,


Nice!  
Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 63):
She hated it, and was very glad when she was able to pick out her own company car (A red 1973 Pontiac LeMans coupe) and get rid of this "tacky battleship".



1973 LeMans was a sweet car as well. She must have been a young & hip parent because that is what the hip people drove at that time. That was the first year of the Colonnade body-styles at GM.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 63):
Personally, as a grade-school kid, I loved the Custom Cruiser. Loved everything about it, from the "glide-away" tailgate (aka Clam Shell door), the power windows and locks, and the HUGE third row seat in the "way-back" that allowed me to spread out


It was always a treat for me because I only had that experience riding in other people's wagons.

Quoting TSS (Reply 64):
Perhaps saying "A minivan is just a station wagon with a serious thyroid condition" would have been closer to the truth.


LOL!   
Hard to believe that the minivan was supposed to be the 'cooler' alternative to the station wagon.

Quoting TSS (Reply 64):
The Oldsmobile diesel engine(s) are typical of GM thinking from the 1970s through the 1980s: Take a basically good idea (offering a fuel-efficient diesel engine in the full-size cars), try to execute said idea on the cheap (modify a mediocre existing V8 to handle more than double it's original compression ratio), rush the project to market before all the bugs are worked out, face massive recalls and loss of consumer confidence when the vehicles start failing prematurely left and right, continue developing it until all or most of the problems are solved, and then pull the plug on it once it is finally as good as it was promised to be at introduction. See also: Chevrolet Vega, Chevrolet Citation, and Pontiac Fiero.



GM could have just dropped in their existing 6.2 diesel they were using in their trucks.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9769 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 65):
The cost of cars have gone up, high unemployment in this group, higher driving ages in some states and indoctrination in to environmentalist beliefs by some academics are all to blame for fewer young drivers. The 'hip' cars marketed to younger buyers today are mostly small greenmobiles/hybrids that are not sporty at all.

You had me until the last one; not a single high school teacher of mine mentioned anything remotely environmental in the context of a new generation of drivers. I took a while getting my license, two years later than most kids (and it was most kids,) but I had been reading every car magazine I bought since I was fourteen; it was a question of making the time to learn properly, having a vehicle available for me to drive once I did have a license, and actually needing to drive in general, since rides were still close at hand. And I don't mind the trend toward smaller, more efficient cars for my demographic, considering the price of fuel; if it's sporty as well that's a nice bonus but it's probably better that I don't get beyond the limits of my talent right now, that's what Gran Turismo 5 is for. Though I will say that driving a car with two and a half times the horsepower of my regular ride (that Volvo V70R) while the latter was in the shop was a nice change of pace.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 67, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9760 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 66):
not a single high school teacher of mine mentioned anything remotely environmental


Good for you. It doesn't mean that it's not happening.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 66):
I don't mind the trend toward smaller, more efficient cars for my demographic,

That's nothing new. There have always been smaller efficient cars for people on a budget which tends to be younger people.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12339 posts, RR: 25
Reply 68, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9736 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 52):
It was always a treat riding in back of our family friend's station wagon with the Girl Scouts when I was a kid.

 Wow!

Some start young, I guess!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 62):
Lack of handling, braking, and safety features made using what speed they did have more scary.

As a subset of the above, tires in particular have come a long way since then.

Scary to think of some of the sh*t bias-ply retreaded tires my brother and his stoner friends used to run their Mopar metal on.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 65):
Hard to believe that the minivan was supposed to be the 'cooler' alternative to the station wagon.

Cool? At least many came with wood trim!



I don't remember people thinking they were cool, but I do recall many saying they liked the higher seating position with its better view of the road, and that it was a lot easier to park than the land yachts of the 70s, and that it got a lot better gas mileage (most early Caravans were inline 4 cylinder engines with front-wheel drive and quite light compared to today's versions).



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 69, posted (1 year 10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9720 times:

The Minivan failed because they made it SO BIG, a original circa 1988 Pentastar Minivan is the size of a Current Mazda 5.

1996-2000 large minivans were pretty big, but the trend continued and they made them taller, larger and ALSO WIDER a lot wider. Suddenly most of them tipped the scales over 2 tons and had V6 or 3.5 liters plus and tons of useless equipment. also they became VERY expensive, filled with gadgets to hypnotize toddlers and suspensions and steering so numb that put land yatchs of the 70 to shame.

Also minivans did not adhere to the macho, single or married with "options" mentality of the last decade so they became MOM mobiles, and they died a looong ugly death.



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 70, posted (1 year 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9644 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
Some start young, I guess!



   
Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
Scary to think of some of the sh*t bias-ply retreaded tires my brother and his stoner friends used to run their Mopar metal on.


That's all part of the fun.  
Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
Cool? At least many came with wood trim!


That made them look a little bit better.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
most early Caravans were inline 4 cylinder engines with front-wheel dri


Some even had turbo. Those minivan were total junk.

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 69):
The Minivan failed


The minivan was very successful for over 20 years.

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 69):
3.5 liters plus



The 1991 - 1995 Town & Country came with an available 3.8 liter V6 that was shared with the Chrysler Imperial. It was a monster of an engine that produced a lot of torque and that was when the minivan was still lightweight.

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 69):
hypnotize toddlers


LOL!   

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 69):
Also minivans did not adhere to the macho, single or married with "options" mentality of the last decade so they became MOM mobiles, and they died a looong ugly death.


They were mom mobiles from day one. I think the 'cool' family vehicles would be the Dodge Magnum/Charger/Chrysler 300C, Mercury Marauder, Pontiac G8 or just about any full-size sedan or wagon with a V8.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7123 posts, RR: 3
Reply 71, posted (1 year 10 months 20 hours ago) and read 9635 times:

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 69):
The Minivan failed

You're kidding right the minivan is massively popular in Europe.


User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 72, posted (1 year 10 months 7 hours ago) and read 9534 times:

The minivan failed after 2000. I would dare to say that maybe the last good Minivan was the 2001 Odyssey. I still have my 2000 Grand voyager it has the 3.8 liter engine weights 1710 kgs and at sea level if you disable the traction control, it smokes the tires in first gear... it drives very well has excellent visibility and since I got the 4 separate captain seats its a very comfortable vehicle.
Afterwards there came electric does, hatches dual DVDS 4 zone AC, and they made the rear seta folding in the floor so the spare tire was wedged in front and the extra boxes en the flor and the foldable seats into the floor. ALTOUGH a neat idea and great for space, it made the darn Minivans heavier (A LOT) and also lower.

My 2000 its very easy to remove the seats if you need the space, and if you remove ell the seats it weights like 100 kgs less. I have changed brakes on that vehicle every 45 000 kms, the newer versions its a miracle if they last more than 25 000 kms.

Also my Minivan was top of the line cost around 31K USD, now with 31K I can't buy the most cheap one from Chrysler !!!

Even Chrysler is thinking of discontinuing their Minivan production next year. SO for me the minivan is DEAD.



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlineaf773atmsp From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2654 posts, RR: 1
Reply 73, posted (1 year 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 9502 times:

I don't think the minivan is dead. My family's 1999 Dodge Grand Caravan has served us well, and its been through plenty of abuse; including getting hit by a large piece of plywood at 80 miles per hour. For some tasks its better suited than our 2010 Mercury Mariner. Whenever our Caravan does finally die we will probably buy another minivan, but I think our family will also look at wagons.


It ain't no normal MD80 its a Super 80!
User currently offlinenws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 883 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (1 year 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 9498 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 65):
Fewer young people are driving today.

While this may be true where you live, it is certainly not true in the U.S. Where I live, almost every teenager gets their license at age 16. A car depends more on the family finances, but it is not unusual for teens to drive a car that is passed down from one of the parents.

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 69):
The Minivan failed because they made it SO BIG, a original circa 1988 Pentastar Minivan is the size of a Current Mazda 5.

Minivan's have become massive, but the Mazda 5 is a cool little car. My mom bought one to replace her Suburban after the 3 oldest kids (myself included) left the house. It is fun to drive, gets decent gas mileage and has a ton of cargo space with the third row folded down. The third row is a tight fit for adutls but I'm 6'2"and I crammed myself back there once for a very short trip.


User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 75, posted (1 year 10 months 1 hour ago) and read 9490 times:

I like my wife´s Mazda 5 as a hauler but ergonomically its a nightmare.

I think Chrysler had the perfect minivan in their 1996-2000 minivans, afterwards they were too complicated, too heavy and expensive. I really like the handling of the newest Sienna but its Super big and wide, its way too much vehicle for a daily car, for highway its very good but even with the newest tech its no faster than my old 2000 Grand voyager.



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 76, posted (1 year 10 months 1 hour ago) and read 9492 times:

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 74):
While this may be true where you live, it is certainly not true in the U.S.

I am talking about the U.S. and what I said is a fact. There was a lively thread about this topic several months ago in this forum. Here is a few links to back it up.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...f-young-drivers-in-1-chart/260126/

http://moneyland.time.com/2011/12/08...se-of-gas-prices-and-the-internet/


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04...fewer-young-drivers_n_1406881.html



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 77, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9428 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 10):
Is the Merc 'R' class considered a station wagon?

That's more of a CUV and it's worth noting that it's no longer being offered in the U.S. market for 2013.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 27):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
That plus the fact that it was poorly marketed (per Superfly's earlier comment) and poorly conceived spacewise.

The third row seating left a lot to be desired if you were over 5'9". I remember a coworker at my last job rented one when they first came out and I sat in that last row and there was maybe an inch at best between the top of my head and the headliner.

Wow  Wow! , I didn't think that the Dodge Magnum even had 3rd-row seating as an option. I never saw one on display at past auto shows (when the model was still in production). Given the way it's configured, it probably was cramped.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 27):
That angled roof is a design trend that followed into the crossover market

That angled roofline is what makes the 3rd-row headroom on a Lincoln MKT an absolute joke (at 5'-7", my head was hitting the rear hatch glass) vs. the boxier Flex which shares the same D4 platform as the MKT.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 33):
Can someone explain the attraction of imitation wood panels to me ?

The simulated wood panels represented a heritage link to the much-older wooded station wagons of old (example: Ford's original Woody wagon).

1929 Ford Woody wagon
http://www.towallpaper.com/wallpapers/ford_model_a_woody_station_wagon_1929-1024x768.jpg

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 42):
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 40):
Why was it one of the worst cars of all time? I'm not disputing, just curious.

It was the engine more than the car. (Although giant land yachts of that period were no bargain no matter what powered them) Oldsmobile developed three diesel engines to cope with the oil crises, which were used in various GM models so I'd have a hard time pinning down which model it would have been, but it's likely better that you forgot.

It may have been a Custom Cruiser, which was available with the diesel from the late seventies through the mid eighties.

By the early 80s, GM offered their ultimately trouble-prone diesel engines as options for all their RWD full-sizes (B & C bodies) and many of their mid-sizes (RWD A/G & FWD E bodies). Oldsmobile first offered the diesel option for its full-sizes (B & C) in 1978, then on its mid-sizes (A) in 1979.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 25):
All is right with the world: Someone starts a station wagon thread, 'Fly pulls out the wonderful photos of 70s station wagons, heaven on earth!

Just have to remind the young kids around here what a proper station wagon really looks like.

And I'll add their capabilities:

1. Potential to tow up to 7000 lbs. when properly equipped. Such packages required the largest engines available at the time (460 for the Ford products, 454 for Chevy, 455 for other GM brands (472/500 for Cadillac sedans/coupes) and the 440 for the Mopars). The downsized (& ulitmately final successors) of the 80s could only tow up to 5000 lbs.

2. One can lay 4'x8' sheets of plywood flat on the station wagons' floors and stack them. With the big, pre-downsized 70s models, one could probably close the tail gate while the plywood sheets were stored. Later models required that the tailgate remain open (pulled down).

3. Storage/Cargo space. With the 2nd & 3rd row seats folded down, GM's '71-'76 full-size wagons could hold over 100 cubic feet, Ford's '69-'78 wagons could hold nearly 95 cubic feet. The downsized GM & Ford full-size wagons could hold roughly 88 and 90 cubic feet respectively.

The above-listings (particularly #s 2 & 3) are what I measure and judge in terms of defining a full-size station wagon.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 53):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
Your folks had great taste in vehicles. How come that wasn't passed down?

"Worst car of all time..." who had great taste in vehicles now?

Again, Doc; the issue w/your Custom Cruiser wagon was the diesel engine not the car itself. I've known many people who owned the gas-powered variants and did not have major issues with their vehicles.

Quoting SmithAir747 (Reply 46):
I grew up with station wagons:

To a degree, I did too. The first car I actually had some level of recognicance in was my mother's 1964 Ford Country Squire that she owned from 1966 through 1971.

In later years, we had a '69 Colony Park (w/the dual-facing rear seats & factory 8-track player; owned from 1971-1974), a '74 Ford Pinto wagon (1974-1976), a '69 Country Squire (former-neighbor's car my brother briefly owned 1978-1979), a '71 Country Squire (my brother had 1982-1983) and a 1974 Impala wagon my brother & I used in 1987 as a 'dump-runner' hauling cut tree limbs.

After moving out in 1991, my brother would own a 1986 Colony Park, a 1987 Pontiac Safari, a 1983 Caprice Estate, a 1988 Ford Country Squire, 1995 Taurus wagon and a 1998 Sable wagon... most if not all of them were 8-seaters.

He was actually more ticked off than I was when station wagons were discontinued.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 65):
Hard to believe that the minivan was supposed to be the 'cooler' alternative to the station wagon.

Only in Lee Iacocca's mind.  
Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
I don't remember people thinking they were cool, but I do recall many saying they liked the higher seating position with its better view of the road, and that it was a lot easier to park than the land yachts of the 70s, and that it got a lot better gas mileage (most early Caravans were inline 4 cylinder engines with front-wheel drive and quite light compared to today's versions).

Actually, 4-banger variants were available up through the 2007 model year on the standard-length models (base Dodge Caravan vs. the Grand Caravan). When gas prices started rising in 2007-2008, my brother wished he could land a slightly-used one to replace his wife's '98 Sable wagon. 4-banger minivans didn't stay on used car lots for too long. In his opinion (& mine as well); one of Chrysler's most poorly-timed decisions was to discontinue the smaller 4-cylinder minivans when the Town & Country and Grand Caravan were re-designed for 2008. Yes, it was a dog in terms of acceleration; but it probably obtained the best fuel economy out of any 7-passenger gasoline-powered vehicle offered at the time.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8403 posts, RR: 3
Reply 78, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9371 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 57):
That little 944 could fit in the cargo bay of that Custom Cruiser.

There's nothing wrong with a 70s or 80s full size GM car that can't be fixed by about $100,000 in custom work.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 68):
most early Caravans were inline 4 cylinder engines with front-wheel drive and quite light compared to today's versions

Little known fact - early Caravans could be optioned with a Turbo 4 and a manual 5 speed transmission. People still collect and race them today. It can beat a Porsche if you want it to.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 77):
In his opinion (& mine as well); one of Chrysler's most poorly-timed decisions was to discontinue the smaller 4-cylinder minivans when the Town & Country and Grand Caravan were re-designed for 2008.

Yes, but CAFE caused cars to get smaller and trucks / vans to get bigger. If not for that, we might have seen more small trucks and vans.


User currently offlinetristarenvy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2265 posts, RR: 3
Reply 79, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9369 times:

I might have missed it somewhere in the thread, but GM was to have given us a Pontiac G8 wagon, along with the G8 sport-truck... But...we all know how that ended.

The wagon has a place in the US market, but it's pretty small. I own a Mazda5, which looks like a small wagon, save for the sliding side doors.

And yes, Superfly, I still have the yellow Aztek! My eldest daughter drives it with glee.



If you don't stand for SOMETHING, you'll fall for ANYTHING.
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 80, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9341 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 70):
Some even had turbo. Those minivan were total junk.
Quoting Flighty (Reply 78):
Little known fact - early Caravans could be optioned with a Turbo 4 and a manual 5 speed transmission. People still collect and race them today. It can beat a Porsche if you want it to.



I had mentioned the turbocharged 4-cylinder but for racing? That may be true of the Dodge Daytona, Chrysler Laser and smaller P-body Omni/Horizon but not the minivan. The first year for the turbo in 1984 only put out 135HP.
In 1986, it was bumped up to 146HP and in 1988 went to the intercooler turbo which put out 187HP.
There were no IROC 220HP minivans but there were for the IROC Daytona and Spirit.

Quoting tristarenvy (Reply 79):
And yes, Superfly, I still have the yellow Aztek! My eldest daughter drives it with glee.



You're cruel!   

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 77):
Only in Lee Iacocca's mind.


Seems like a lot of people bought in to that and they sold well.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3065 posts, RR: 5
Reply 81, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9335 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 77):
Quoting srbmod (Reply 27):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 11):
That plus the fact that it was poorly marketed (per Superfly's earlier comment) and poorly conceived spacewise.

The third row seating left a lot to be desired if you were over 5'9". I remember a coworker at my last job rented one when they first came out and I sat in that last row and there was maybe an inch at best between the top of my head and the headliner.

Wow   , I didn't think that the Dodge Magnum even had 3rd-row seating as an option.

The Magnums did not have third row seating.
http://autos.yahoo.com/dodge/magnum/2008/rt/specifications.html

I can only guess that Srbmod was thinking of a Chrysler Pacifica, which did have third row seating, and not a Dodge Magnum.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 77):
Again, Doc; the issue w/your Custom Cruiser wagon was the diesel engine not the car itself. I've known many people who owned the gas-powered variants and did not have major issues with their vehicles.

I drove a gasoline-powered 1988 Custom Cruiser for 12 years and had no major problems. I got rid of it for three reasons:
1. The driver's floorboard was rusting out;
2. I could barely afford to keep it fueled.
3. I found a killer deal a newer car that got double the gas mileage of the Custom Cruiser and couldn't justify owning two cars at once.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12339 posts, RR: 25
Reply 82, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 9293 times:

Quoting tristarenvy (Reply 79):
And yes, Superfly, I still have the yellow Aztek! My eldest daughter drives it with glee.

Well, that's one way a father can make sure that men stay away from his daughter! 



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 83, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9261 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 81):
I can only guess that Srbmod was thinking of a Chrysler Pacifica, which did have third row seating, and not a Dodge Magnum.

That would be my guess as well. Hopefully, he will respond to confirm.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 78):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 77):
In his opinion (& mine as well); one of Chrysler's most poorly-timed decisions was to discontinue the smaller 4-cylinder minivans when the Town & Country and Grand Caravan were re-designed for 2008.

Yes, but CAFE caused cars to get smaller and trucks / vans to get bigger. If not for that, we might have seen more small trucks and vans.

Yes & no.

While there were/are 2 separate figures for cars and trucks; CAFE standards for trucks are increasing as well as those for cars. Trucks, vans, etc. with a gross vehicle weight (GVWT) of 10,000 lbs. and greater are the only mass-produced vehicles exempt from all CAFE standards. Last time I checked, all minivans (not just the Chrysler/Dodge models) have a GVWT less than 10,000 lbs. and are, hence, subject to the CAFE truck standard.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 84, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9209 times:
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Larry, I always love your station pics. Good memories.

While I still loved the utility of those things, they are history unfortunately. The new car numbers are in... and with Americans short memories, small cars are back 'in' with $4 gas.

Wifey was rear ended not long ago, once in the Honda Pilot, the other in a Nissan Altima. I know the old wagons took less damage with more insults back in the day.

Whats to replace the Altima....

total philosophy change....

These days, you can't own anything nice without some a#hole mucking it up....

so it'll be a pre-owned pick up truck...Got to protect the family....



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 13
Reply 85, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9196 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 84):
These days, you can't own anything nice without some a#hole mucking it up....

so it'll be a pre-owned pick up truck...Got to protect the family....

Before you buy check out Consumer Reports Auto Issues. They show the crash test results. Believe it or not, some pickups and SUV's, the occupants actually had more of a chance to be made into mincemeat.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_u32_gMCBxGc/S4wAIxfBLrI/AAAAAAAAAC8/xG--8l222Nk/s1600/bc13.jpg

Something about those classic Ford Country Squire Wagons. My dad owned both a 1967 then 1969. They made many a trip. To and from Atlantic City, the Stroudsberg Railroad, Virginia and Baltimore to Miami Beach and back. I learned to drive and took my driving test on my dad's 1969 Squire. I know, the fake wood panelling is considered tacky to many but they made the cars. And the '67 Sqauire was our first car equipped with factory A/C.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 86, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9192 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 84):
These days, you can't own anything nice without some a#hole mucking it up....

so it'll be a pre-owned pick up truck...Got to protect the family....

Up until very recently, trucks and SUVs were more dangerous than cars. Yes there is some safety in sheer heft, but that same heft makes avoiding accidents more difficult and, until the recent improvements in stability control, such vehicles were more prone to rollovers.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 87, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 9169 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 82):
Well, that's one way a father can make sure that men stay away from his daughter!


                 

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 84):
Larry, I always love your station pics. Good memories.


My pleasure.  
Quoting mirrodie (Reply 84):
Wifey was rear ended not long ago,


I hope she didn't get hurt.

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 84):
small cars are back 'in' with $4 gas.



Must be those "price idicators".......

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 84):
so it'll be a pre-owned pick up truck...Got to protect the family....


You may want to find a new-old-stock or pre-owned Mercury Grand Marquis or Lincoln Town Car.
They are very safe cars and consume less fuel than any truck or SUV.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 86):
Yes there is some safety in sheer heft, but that same heft makes avoiding accidents more difficult and, until the recent improvements in stability control, such vehicles were more prone to rollovers.



It's too bad that the public went for SUVs instead of large sedans. Cars such as the Town Car and Grand Marquis don't have the rollover and lack of control issues such as the SUVs.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 85):
I know, the fake wood panelling is considered tacky to many but they made the cars.


A station wagon is incomplete without simulated wood paneling.




Did you guys know that from 1968 - 1978, Ford & Mercury offered a recreation table with a magnetic Checkerboard with magnetic checker pieces for the kids to play a game of Checkers. Proof that we were a more advanced society back then. Today the kids mind's are dumbed down with PTVs mounted in the headrest to watch DVDs. The $58 option in these wagons enhanced cognitive development in children.


http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/CountrySquireCheckerTable.jpg




Look closely at the checker board game in the rear cargo bay.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/LTDWagonAd.jpg



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 88, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9166 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 87):
It's too bad that the public went for SUVs instead of large sedans.

The government should stop helping us before they screw up any more.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 87):
Cars such as the Town Car and Grand Marquis don't have the rollover and lack of control issues such as the SUVs.

The rollover thing, sure. But not unlike the big SUVs, those large cars have steering wheels that may not be connected to anything and suspensions that seem to utilize whipped cream. A sport suspension option would be more like Jello.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 89, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9169 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 88):
The government should stop helping us before they screw up any more.


  
Well said!

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 88):
But not unlike the big SUVs, those large cars have steering wheels that may not be connected to anything and suspensions that seem to utilize whipped cream. A sport suspension option would be more like Jello.



You're talking about the ones from the 1960 & 1970s.
The most recent Grand Marquis and Town Cars are very nimble with tight turning radius.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 90, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9164 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 89):
You're talking about the ones from the 1960 & 1970s.

My mom's Caprice was the exact same way. Made a minivan feel downright sporty by comparison. Granted, the Caprice, Crown Vic and their badge engineered counterparts are basically cars from the 1960s and 1970s that somehow escaped into later decades, like Back to the Future or something. Of course, if a Caprice or Crown Vic were in that movie, it could only be the second worst car in the film...

Quoting Superfly (Reply 89):
The most recent Grand Marquis and Town Cars are very nimble with tight turning radius.

...an attribute that comes in handy when negotiating the departures level at LaGuardia. And using that tight turning radius requires cranking the wheel like you're opening a bank vault.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 91, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9156 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 90):

You're funny.  

The last generation of Grand Marquis an Town Cars has nothing to do with the ones from the 60s & 70s.
Although the Panther frame may date back to teh 1979 model year, the car it's self is modern and has one of the world's most efficent V8 engine ever made.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 92, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9013 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 85):
Something about those classic Ford Country Squire Wagons. My dad owned both a 1967 then 1969. They made many a trip. To and from Atlantic City, the Stroudsberg Railroad, Virginia and Baltimore to Miami Beach and back. I learned to drive and took my driving test on my dad's 1969 Squire. I know, the fake wood panelling is considered tacky to many but they made the cars

Not to nitpick Zip, but the last pic you posted is actually a 1970 model. The '69s, while similar, had a different grille assembly than their '70 successors. The '69 LTD, XL & Country Squire featured a color-keyed divider that stretched into the concealed headlight doors.

'69 Country Squire
http://fordw.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ford-country-squire-1969.jpg

My first car was a '69 Ford LTD Brougham sedan BTW w/the 302.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 93, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9012 times:

Since we're into fond memories, my family also had a wagon when I was a kid, albeit a French one. It replaced a crappy Ford Orion whose engine gave up, it was a Peugeot 405 break (break meaning wagon, now Peugeot uses SW) :



It was the basic version whose only luxury was power steering. Of course as a kid I didn't care much about that, however the lack of air conditioning was a big negative since we often went to Italy with it.

I learned the pedals and stick on it on a parking, then after my 20 mandatory hours I drove it with my parents for a time to get my license.

The engine proved to be the most challenging, it was a 1,9l NA diesel with 71HP. You read that correctly. Car empty it was alright, but when traveling with a family of 5 and luggage, it was a nightmare, at the first sign of a hill you had to drop 2 gears and put the pedal to the metal (and pray).

It's still being manufactured in Iran, while our market has had the 406, 407, and no 408 since the 508 took its place.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3571 posts, RR: 3
Reply 94, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9007 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 85):
Before you buy check out Consumer Reports Auto Issues. They show the crash test results. Believe it or not, some pickups and SUV's, the occupants actually had more of a chance to be made into mincemeat.

And then last week I read a report that in real world crashes, there is still no substitute for weight. Ever seen the picture of the Smart car smashed like an egg?


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 95, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9007 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 92):

]
You grew up in a wagon family. Did any of your have the factory checker board game?

Quoting mham001 (Reply 94):
Ever seen the picture of the Smart car smashed like an egg?


Does it sizzle in a frying pan?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 96, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8974 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 95):
You grew up in a wagon family. Did any of your have the factory checker board game?

Sorry, no checker board. The only wagon of the '69-'78 era in my family that had featured the dual seats was my father's '69 Colony Park. Of all the '69-'78 full-size Fords/Mercs my family had; not one wagon was of the '73-'78 vintage.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8974 times:

In Germany, the sedan is what the wagon is in the US: an old person's car. As a consequence, we have a relatively small number of sedans on the streets (including Mercedes E class, Audi A6, and BMW 5 series', all of which sell very well as wagons). So, no wonder, when I moved to the states I was eager to buy a wagon and ended up with a Subaru Legacy wagon, not a particularly popular choice among my peers who thought it was age- and gender-incompatible. It was a great car though.

User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 98, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8960 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 96):
not one wagon was of the '73-'78 vintage.

Perhaps now is the time to pick one up.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 99, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8953 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 98):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 96):
not one wagon was of the '73-'78 vintage.

Perhaps now is the time to pick one up.

In the northeast, where many of these beauts fell prey to body rot; they're few and far between.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 100, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8943 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 99):
In the northeast, where many of these beauts fell prey to body rot; they're few and far between.

Don't buy one in the northeast. Look on ebay and find one in the desert southwest.

Here is one on ebay in mint condition and it isn't that far from you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977-...&hash=item43b400f81b#ht_500wt_1022



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 101, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8938 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 100):

Already saw that one after I made my previous post. Nice find but I don't have any place to store it.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6530 posts, RR: 9
Reply 102, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8948 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 94):
And then last week I read a report that in real world crashes, there is still no substitute for weight. Ever seen the picture of the Smart car smashed like an egg?

If you have a modern light car to cushion you, sure. If you crash against a wall or a tree, weight is your enemy.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8188 posts, RR: 8
Reply 103, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8945 times:

The older I get the less I need a wagon, but I am somewhat impressed with the Pacifica. The Flex basically starts at $31K, making it uninteresting for me.

This is the station wagon I learned to drive on:

55 Pontiac


Ours was a medium brown instead of the red, but it was a good, solid car. It was also the first air conditioned car my parents owned.

While it might have been a bit "dorky" for a teenager I also was able to learn to drive a manual tranny on something more interesting:

58 Triumph TR-3


Dad's had a white top and was the same color of grey.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 13
Reply 104, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8915 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 87):
A station wagon is incomplete without simulated wood paneling.

  

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 103):

  

I learned to drive a stick on a cousin's early 70's Volvo boxy two door. That car was tight and built like a tank. Sadly it caught on fire. This was when Volvo's were solid, dependable no frills but ergonomically superior vehicles.

I perfected my stick driving on a classic rear engine air cooled VW Beetle.
My only time behind the wheel of a "Three on the Tree Stick" just so happened to be a white 1959 stripped full sized Chevy wagon. I got it into reverse and then first and jus in the parking lot of a gas station. And, it was a two door behemouth! Yep folks way way back in the day, Detroit had full sized two door station wagons. The most popular being the legendary sport themed Chevy Nomad. But most of them were the stripped bare bones loss leaders of their model lines. The General, Ford, Mopar and Rambler all had them back in the day.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 105, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8910 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 103):
I am somewhat impressed with the Pacifica. The Flex basically starts at $31K, making it uninteresting for me.

I like the Chrysler Pacifica as well. I also like the Ford Flex but the price is very high for what it is.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 103):
This is the station wagon I learned to drive on:

Nice!  
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 103):
I also was able to learn to drive a manual tranny on something more interesting:
58 Triumph TR-3

Sweet!   
The British have always made beautiful cars.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 104):
I learned to drive a stick on a cousin's early 70's Volvo boxy two door. That car was tight and built like a tank.

Those were the best Swedish cars ever made.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7123 posts, RR: 3
Reply 106, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8907 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 87):
You may want to find a new-old-stock or pre-owned Mercury Grand Marquis or Lincoln Town Car.
They are very safe cars and consume less fuel than any truck or SUV.

That was also one of the reasons from dropping them they weren't safe enough and would have struggled to get a decent safety rating, big does not mean safer. The safest car ever tested in Europe (probably the world) is the new Volvo V40, and that's not a big car.


User currently onlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 107, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8906 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 106):
That was also one of the reasons from dropping them they weren't safe enough and would have struggled to get a decent safety rating,



Now you're making stuff up.
Those cars always rated high in safety test.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7123 posts, RR: 3
Reply 108, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8904 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 107):

Now you're making stuff up.

Righto, the Crown Vic was good when tested in 2003, things have moved on a lot since then, I wouldn't want to be in one when crashing. http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=181 in an offset crash it's only acceptable, remember this was back in 2003, it would probably test as poor today.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 109, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8871 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 105):
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 103):
I am somewhat impressed with the Pacifica. The Flex basically starts at $31K, making it uninteresting for me.

I like the Chrysler Pacifica as well. I also like the Ford Flex but the price is very high for what it is.

As much as I like the Flex, I have to agree. The majority of Flex's competitors start off with a lower sticker price (the Chevy Traverse starts at $29,600), and have more overall room (8-seat max. vs. 7-seat max. on the Flex; cargo space of over 110 cubic feet vs. 83 cubic feet on the Flex).

Personally, Ford needs to make the Flex a tad wider (enough to match or exceed the Explorer's 61" of shoulder room for the 1st & 2nd row seats and allow for 3-across seating for the 3rd row) and longer in the back (to allow for increased cargo room) in order for it to better match its competitors and to further distance itself from the slightly-smaller Explorer. Sadly, it appears that the Flex has essentially replaced the Crown Vic's and Ranger's role of Ford's neglected red-haired stepchild.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 110, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8826 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 108):
Righto, the Crown Vic was good when tested in 2003, things have moved on a lot since then, I wouldn't want to be in one when crashing.

I was going to say that I doubt so many police departments would take a car that is poorly rated in safety.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7123 posts, RR: 3
Reply 111, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8813 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 110):

I was going to say that I doubt so many police departments would take a car that is poorly rated in safety.

why not if it's cheap enough, the other advantage was it's cheap to repair. Remember it was reasonably safe in 2003 but that was then, safety has made huge improvements since 2003.


User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7443 posts, RR: 62
Reply 112, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8774 times:
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Quoting zippyjet (Reply 85):
Before you buy check out Consumer Reports Auto Issues. They show the crash test results. Believe it or not, some pickups and SUV's, the occupants actually had more of a chance to be made into mincemeat.

Oh, believe me, we do.

That said, its early in our search as we've got bigger fish to fry, ie. bigger home.

But just looking into options now. Having driven the Honda Pilot, we like and now prefer having a higher vantage point as well.

But yes, we use those consumers reports religiously. Need a hefty auto, with a high POV, pre-dinged.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5489 posts, RR: 28
Reply 113, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8741 times:

I have a 1991 Olds Custom Cruiser which, at around 140,000 miles may be a the best car I have ever owned. It waits, patiently, at a rural airport for when I return, assisted only by a solar panel for battery maintenance. The car can be left lonely for months at a time, but never ever lets me down. Plus, it is outrageously cool, white with red leather and every option you could get. Great car.

Then a friend of mine decided he needed a car to be staged at another airport in the state - and found a virtual clone of mine! Only difference, his is a 1992 (which means, he gets a 5.7 V8 instead of the admittedly-weak 5.0 in mine).

My mother hated station wagons when I was growing up, so I was deprived. Owning this one is my therapy. I feel so cool in it!



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8638 times:

A couple of weeks back I saw a Mercedes E63 AMG wagon pass me in the evening. Even in a part of the world where three-pointed-star badges practically grow on trees, that's almost the rarest Benz this side of an SLR McLaren, and I feel that's a shame. Now that is the kind of wagon the European luxury brands should be making more of, not just compact sport sedan-based lifestyle statements. It is the one car that makes me fantasize about being a well-to-do family man, because I could put my children in the rear-facing third row and they could wave as I blow the doors off Corvettes.

User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7123 posts, RR: 3
Reply 115, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8618 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 114):
Now that is the kind of wagon the European luxury brands should be making more of

They nearly all do, Audi makes one the S6 Avant, in the near future you'll be able to buy an RS6 Avant, BMW did make an E61 M5 touring but dropped for the F10 model, and Jaguar are supposed to be releasing an XF-R Sportbrake next year.


User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 8591 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 115):
They nearly all do,

I know, it's just that almost none are sold in the United States. I guess I should have worded my post slightly differently.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1789 posts, RR: 1
Reply 117, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8531 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 102):
If you crash against a wall or a tree, weight is your enemy.

And heavier, taller cars are more prone to lose control and swerve off road.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4805 posts, RR: 9
Reply 118, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8444 times:

Quoting sccutler (Reply 113):
The car can be left lonely for months at a time, but never ever lets me down.

Don't you find that the petrol goes off after a few months?

[Edited 2012-10-08 09:36:36]


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2468 posts, RR: 9
Reply 119, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8030 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
Quoting flymia (Reply 2):
If I ever drove an American Station Wagon it would not doubt be this one:

I'm partial to the Mercury Colony Park.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/j...sh8track/1974MercuryColonyPark.jpg

Quoting af773atmsp (Reply 5):
I wonder if there would be a way to have a third row seating configuration in these wagons? Similar to the third row bench seats in the older Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable wagons.

The older Ford Country Squire and Mercury Colony Park offered that along with all the other full-size GM and Chrysler wagons.


These were special rides. My family had a '69 model from 1969 to early 1981. What a grand car, so sad when it was finally junked.


User currently offlinesuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 120, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7984 times:

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 119):
These were special rides. My family had a '69 model from 1969 to early 1981. What a grand car, so sad when it was finally junked.

Sounds like your family had great taste in cars so you just had to be the quirky one and buy the Gremlin, Pacer and Azect.  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7926 times:

My dad's family had an Olds Vista Cruiser for a while too. My aunt totaled it forty years ago and she's never heard the end of that.

User currently offlinesuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39695 posts, RR: 75
Reply 122, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7914 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 121):
My dad's family had an Olds Vista Cruiser for a while too. My aunt totaled it forty years ago and she's never heard the end of that.

...and she shouldn't hear the end of it!   
Those were beautiful wagons.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5489 posts, RR: 28
Reply 123, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 7828 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 118):
Quoting sccutler (Reply 113):
The car can be left lonely for months at a time, but never ever lets me down.

Don't you find that the petrol goes off after a few months?


Well, it has not done yet, but it is a worry; especially so since the gas here is generally contaminated already, with ethanol.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
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