NAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9086 posts, RR: 37 Posted (7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 4361 times:
Assange has now spent 100 days in Ecuador's London Embassy. He's worse off even than someone in prison, really - not only is his 'cell' smaller, with the British police guarding both the front and back entrances of the embassy, he doesn't even get any 'exercise time' in the open air.....
It now looks as if either Assange or the Ecuadorians (or both) are 'cracking':-
"ECUADOR has asked Britain whether Julian Assange could be permitted to leave his London hideout for medical treatment.
"The query comes as the two countries met to seek to end a deadlock over the activist's fate.
"Assange has sheltered inside Ecuador's embassy in London, beyond the reach of British police, since June 19 - a total of 100 days.
"He is seeking to avoid extradition to Sweden for questioning over sex crimes allegations.
"Though Ecuador has granted Assange asylum, if he steps outside the building he will be arrested to be flown to Sweden."
Quite obvious what the British should (and almost certainly will) say (and, if necessary, do). Just repeat that, the moment Assange leaves the embassy, he will be arrested. But add that he will then be afforded any medical care that he needs; though guarded by policemen while he receives it. And that, provided he is fit enough, he will then be extradited to Sweden forthwith........
I don't personally have any time for Assange. Anyone who is accused of a crime should face up to things and submit to legal proceedings, while energetically defending themselves. The last thing they should do, in my opinion, is what Assange has done; just 'lie low' and severely inconvenience other people (not least the well-meaning Ecuadorians).
So I think this business has gone on long enough, and hope very much that Assange will indeed leave the embassy (effectively, 'give himself up') and submit to the required questioning in Sweden. But I'm sure that not everyone will agree with me. What does everyone else think?
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 5318 posts, RR: 47 Reply 7, posted (7 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4180 times:
Quoting qf002 (Reply 6): That said, I don't understand why he can't be questioned over crimes committed in Sweden while remaining in London (or Ecuador I guess).
If I got the information right from a previous thread, it has something to do with Sweden actually needing Assange (the suspect) physically in Sweden before he can be questioned/charged/accused (not sure which.) But yes, it seems a little fishy since Swedish prisons don't sound that bad, they don't extradite people when they can face the death penalty (so not gonna be killed by the US) and just the US's legal grounds for prosecuting him are very shaky at best.
Plus, I think if the US assassinated him or something that would do a lot more damage than just leaving him be. Wikileaks did its damage but no one really talks about it too much, it's old news. Killing Assange would just bring more attention and bad press to America. That's assuming this administration would even sign off on shady assassinations...
NAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9086 posts, RR: 37 Reply 9, posted (7 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4168 times:
Quoting qf002 (Reply 6): That said, I don't understand why he can't be questioned over crimes committed in Sweden while remaining in London
It would be pointless, I guess. They already have evidence from the two girls. Assange, when and if he's ever 'questioned,' will deny it, of course, but that's a matter of 'Well, he would, wouldn't he?' No use questioning him in a place where they have no powers of arrest.
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7): If I got the information right from a previous thread, it has something to do with Sweden actually needing Assange (the suspect) physically in Sweden before he can be questioned/charged/accused (not sure which.)
Quite so; but my guess is that the operative word is 'charged.' As it should be, IMO........
A few more 'straws in the wind' in this press story:-
"As the WikiLeaks founder spent his 100th day in the Ecuadorean embassy, where he has sought refuge from extradition to Sweden to face allegations of sexual crimes, the country's foreign minister met his British counterpart, William Hague, to ask about contingency plans should Assange fall ill.
"Hague told Ricardo Patino that he would consult officials and lawyers and respond within a few days, but a British official commented: "Maybe the Ecuadoreans should have thought of that before they granted him asylum." The official added that British police were under obligation to arrest Assange as soon as he stepped out of the embassy.
"One thing we have proposed is to have an ambulance parked outside," Patino told the Guardian in an interview in New York. "What we have said, if such a case should happen, we should be ready to install an operating theatre inside the premises, unless Mr Hague responds, as he promised in the next few days, that he [Assange] would be able to go to a hospital."
prebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6019 posts, RR: 55 Reply 10, posted (7 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4087 times:
Quoting qf002 (Reply 6): I don't understand why he can't be questioned over crimes committed in Sweden while remaining in London (or Ecuador I guess).
Any trial in Sweden is almost sure to involve some DNA tests.
That said, the Swedes are more than happy with the present situation. For several reasons:
1. As long as he is fed at the Ecuador Embassy in London the Swedes won't have to feed him.
2. Any trial in Stockholm could easily become a magnet to rioters from all over the world.
3. As long as he is not in Sweden, the Swedes won't need to deal with any request from the USA.
How will it end? Well, if he doesn't choose to go to Sweden, then there are two possibilities.
1. He stays in the Ecuador Embassy forever.
2. The London police at some time relaxes a little, and he is sneaked by night to Ecuador (which I expect is very likely).
And whatever happens, he will be a lifetime "prisoner" within the borders of Ecuador plus other countries which hate Sweden and the USA. And so what? The main message has been delivered long time ago: Whoever wants to succeed Assange, stay within the laws of the countries you deal with, or expect to live a lifestyle which is vastly inferior to what other people are used to.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
thegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2274 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (7 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4071 times:
Why all the negativity toward Julian Assange? This man is a brave hero who many governments and organizations want neutralized
I mean really this man put on the spotlight some huge war crimes and injustices going on in the world
I'm too buzzed to really understand the sarcasm but I must admit, he is really playing the whole "the US is going to execute me" card way too much. The crimes he has to answer for have nothing to do with Wikileaks. Methinks there might be something more going on...
Off topic, but to our fellow Swedes, what kind of punishment (if guilty) is he looking at?
I don't see why, he freely admits to having sex with the women.
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 12): The crimes he has to answer for have nothing to do with Wikileaks.
Well, if you think the US wants to take him out without making it about treason or such (which wouldn't hold anyway) then it makes sense to frame him for something else. Of course, spotty allegations of "rape by not wearing a condom" don't seem that effective a way to deal with him.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 5318 posts, RR: 47 Reply 14, posted (7 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4041 times:
Quoting Aesma (Reply 13): Well, if you think the US wants to take him out without making it about treason or such (which wouldn't hold anyway) then it makes sense to frame him for something else. Of course, spotty allegations of "rape by not wearing a condom" don't seem that effective a way to deal with him.
Well that assumes that Sweden, as a sovereign nation, made that decision. I doubt that Sweden would bend to political will just because this guy offended the US. In fact, I believe that making a big deal out of Assange (at this point) would only bring more attention to him (IMO.)
I say let Sweden deal with him. I feel that they are honorable enough to make a decision that is free of bias from the US
NAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9086 posts, RR: 37 Reply 16, posted (7 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4016 times:
Quoting Aesma (Reply 13): Well, if you think the US wants to take him out without making it about treason or such (which wouldn't hold anyway) then it makes sense to frame him for something else.
Aesma, I doubt that you've ever been to Sweden? Because, if you had, you'd know that they are almost 'aggressively' independent, they invariably go their own way; and they have a long and proud tradition of neutrality......... There is no possibility whatever that they are conspiring in some way with the United States.
Come to that, the USA and Britain still have a thing called the 'special relationship' - born in the days when they worked together to save Europe from the German Nazis, and much of the rest of the world from the 'Empire of Japan.' If the USA had ever wanted to lay their hands on Assange, they could have sought his extradition from the UK at any time, on grounds of espionage; with the virtual certainty of success. I agree with you that they might not be able to make such charges stick - but there's no reasonable doubt that they could have got their hands on him, and put him on trial, any time they liked, years ago.
As things are - because neither he nor the Ecuadorians thought through the limitations of 'asylum' - he's 'going nowhere.' Had they realised those limitations, smuggled him out of Britain, and quietly got him on a aeroplane to Ecuador, things would be different. But as things are, he's facing 'life imprisonment' in the embassy.
Except that I suspect that, first of all, he's not at all well; and, secondly, that the Ecuadorians are getting more and more fed up with his presence disrupting the smooth functioning of their embassy.
Case of 'watch this space,' I reckon......... looks as if 'something will happen' quite soon.
[Edited 2012-09-29 23:57:20]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
No doctor nowadays is going even to try to treat those symptoms without a full checkup, including X-rays, blood tests, heart tests etc. And he may already have been told that he very probably needs an operation.
What a self-centred bugger he is. Whose fault is it that he can't see his kids, go to the beach, climb mountains etc.?
Anyway - now that he's worried about his own precious skin, I reckon he'll give himself up within a week or so.
[Edited 2012-09-30 06:39:58]
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
bristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2135 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3938 times:
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 17): What a self-centred bugger he is. Whose fault is it that he can't see his kids, go to the beach, climb mountains etc.?
Does he have kids? He sure is self centered - he has brought all this upon himself. As has been said before, he's gonna have to face extradition at some point, all he's doing now is prolonging it. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
Man up Assange, get deported then you'll free up our newspapers for something important to write about.
stealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5434 posts, RR: 49 Reply 19, posted (7 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3923 times:
Get over it Julian,
You are an egotistical publicity hound that adds little value to society.
The USA can't try you as a traitor, the rabidly independant Swedes are unlikely to extradite you to a 3rd party( if the Brits with the above mentioned special relationship with the US haven't then the Swedes are hardly likely too!)
You have chosen to take asylum with that paragon of freedom and free speech, Ecuador, How funny is that?
Imagine your self as an Ecuadorian journalist that discovered something questionable about government, human rights or corruption in your country and see how well the "freedoms" you espouse and expect as a "right" are respected in your "adopted" haven!
Don't get me wrong, I think there is a huge opportunity for our governments(all of them) to be more transparent in many of their(our) foreign policy engagements. I am just not convinced that Messers Assange and Manning are best positioned(or qualified) to make that call.
If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 5318 posts, RR: 47 Reply 23, posted (7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3835 times:
Quoting mham001 (Reply 22): It's amazing that US intelligence was able to sway not one, but 2! Assange groupies to publicly come forward with these fake allegations. They must have incredible powers.
And really, what would be the point of the US doing this? The damage has been done, Assange is not a threat, putting him on trial or killing him would just make us look bad and bring even more attention to Wikileaks.
Measures have been put into place to ensure this won't happen again. The military hates flash drives now... on our base if you even plug your iPhone into a computer to charge it some system very far away will read it as an unauthorized device and suspend your account. Notice that having Assange dead, alive, or in custody doesn't affect this process at all.
Why? They are following their legal protocols. What people tend to forget is that Assange really isn't anyone special in his legal circumstances. There is absolutely no need for special treatment.
Quoting Aesma (Reply 13): I don't see why, he freely admits to having sex with the women.
As I understand it, the only consensual sex he had was based on his using a condom. When he reportedly had sex and didn't use a condom that, under local laws, was rape - the woman did not consent to that form of sex.
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 17): exercises daily under the direction of a personal trainer,
He has a personal trainer who works with him on a daily basis? WTF! Nice that he has the money for that and appears to me that he cannot be that sick if he is working with a PT on a daily basis.
Maybe all this talk about some mythical illness is simply an effort for sympathy and a way for him to leave.
Quoting NAV20 (Reply 17): No doctor nowadays is going even to try to treat those symptoms without a full checkup, including X-rays, blood tests, heart tests etc. And he may already have been told that he very probably needs an operation.
A doctor can generally determine if antibiotics are needed for a chest infection. A portable x-ray can be taken if desired and the guy can spit in a cup for lab work No special needs at all.
25 pvjin: Assange is great man, there is absolutely nothing wrong with exposing war crimes and other dark stuff committed by US government and army. World needs
26 DeltaMD90: ...who has unprotected sex with women against their will. Should we just ignore that just because he exposed some secrets? Doing something 'good' doe
27 pvjin: This whole rape story probably is total rubbish and pathetic try to make Assange look bad. I wonder how much those women got paid by US government /
28 Ken777: I'm at the point where I doubt if the US really wants to give him the publicity of a trial. Simply keep him in some embassy room for a few years then
29 CompensateMe: Assange is a great man? Did he have a whistleblower agenda for WikiLeaks, or was its agenda to "give people around the world an unprecedented insight
30 pvjin: US actions in Afghanistan and Iraq have nothing to do with US national security, both of those wars were mainly because of political and economical r
31 DeltaMD90: And what if it's not? Do you have confidence in the Swedish judicial system? Why? To give this guy more publicity? Will planting fake charges on him
32 CompensateMe: Afghanistan... seriously? I guess you think 9/11 was a conspiracy created by the USA government - fabricated like the Holocaust.
33 pvjin: Nope, 9/11 was result from centuries of aggressive and ignorant foreign policy committed by US government. It's not like those terrorist attacked US
34 pvjin: Hard to say, even the best judicial systems do have corruption. Maybe US government wanted to make Assange look like a bad guy and turn sympathies ag
35 CompensateMe: Centuries? The USA is only 236-years-old, and wasn't involved much in global foreign policy until circa WWI. Attacking Afghanistan no doubt weakened
36 pvjin: Oh my English failed again, I meant decade... For some reason I always mix century and decade...
37 pu: Sweden regrets your disappointment, or I do anyway. Aren't his accomplishments blown out of proprtion? Mainly by Assange himself? ...a lot of it was
38 DeltaMD90: Well what do the Swedes have to gain from all this? That doesn't make any sense. Plus why Assange some magic man? These "sources" could easily go to
39 NAV20: Fair enough, Ken777, I admit that I'm only piecing together and interpreting a few 'key words' culled from the various news reports. You could well b
40 thegreatRDU: I agree Bradley Manning is a hero too Oh my god. This man exposed war crimes and grave injustices committed by governments and corporations. He was a
41 PanHAM: simply because democracy and the division of powers works in Sweden. The judiciary system makes a decision on that, based on the laws, not the govern
42 AR385: I do not know of any ethical surgeon that will concede to operate in a "surgical theatre" prepared inside a building that is just an office. The only
43 PanHAM: The alternative is not prison, house arrest at worst, usually pre-trial persons are not in prison unless they are dangerous. Until he is convicted he
44 Quokkas: Not completely true. Under Swedish law the Supreme Court may rule on whether there is an obstacle to extradition and it may make a decision that allo
45 PanHAM: I think what I said was, that the Swedish Government cannot rule the xtradition (to thew USA=) agaoinst bthe Swedish supreme court the question was: a
46 stealthz: In a word ..Yes This is also how I feel.. One of the conditions of his asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy, a condition imposed by the Govt of Equador a
47 Ken777: I personally believe that his protectors are over-tating rings. Probably looking for a way to get rid of him. I sure don't. Maning raised his hand an
48 NAV20: Agree completely, AR385. I'm no 'medical man,' but my father was. Any medico who sanctioned major abdominal surgery in less than 100% sterile conditi
49 moo: No he isn't, and no he didn't - what warcrimes and grave injustices did he expose? He released tens of thousands of documents en mass without a thoug
50 pvjin: Whole Afghan war and US foreign policy is full of injustice.
51 moo: And Assanges actions have brought that to the fore ... how, exactly? People have had issues with the various wars and US policies well before WikiLea
52 thegreatRDU: Ever heard of Wikileaks? US attack helicopters gunning down innocent women and children covering it up and reporting it as a strike on "insurgents",
53 moo: It's all I need - his actions and methods show no responsibility at all, so at best he's no better than the people you seem to think he is implicit in
54 DeltaMD90: I can really see where you're coming from, but he could have accomplished what he wanted to do without releasing specific names (which serves no purp
55 thegreatRDU: well that was moo was saying that...lives were possibly in harm's way because of the release of these cables....and of course it's a moo argument wow
56 moo: And it would seem that you completely misunderstood the argument. Regardless of whether people actually died, the *manner* in which the documents wer
57 stealthz: My point exactly RDU, Assange is after getting attention for himself regardless of who gets hurt. I will say it again, there is a good case for great
58 SmittyOne: If he wants to paint himself (or any of you want to paint him) as a courageous whistle blower for releasing the documents, but not face the wrath of t
59 MD11Engineer: Actually, from what I read, he is accused of having held forcibly down and entered one woman without the condom they previously agreed for him to use
60 pvjin: This is perfect definition for US government too. But I find it hard to believe that someone with as much publicity as he has would just go and rape
61 MD11Engineer: Two nice definitions: "Having a penis is like living your life being handcuffed to the village idiot" "A man has a brain and a penis, but only enough
62 NAV20: So far only one thing is certain about this business. That this low-budget TV movie, made right here in Melbourne (long before the latest Assange cris