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Netanyahu Buckles In Showdown With Iran  
User currently offlinemaxthrusta330 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3823 times:

There is an excellent editorial in the Financial Times, exposing the deeply flawed strategy and bullying tactics of Benjamin Netanyahu and his government with regard to their repetitive military threats against Iran. How shockingly arrogant it is for the leader of a tiny little country to attempt to dictate the foreign policy of a super power like the United States by trying to force the hand of the US just before a presidential election. I for one am delighted that Netanyahu's flawed warmongering strategy has backfired, however the simple fact that Netanyahu thought that he could force the hand of the US in such a way, surely raises questions about US sovereignty. It also truly defies logic:

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/c6592...e3-00144feabdc0.html#axzz27mJqKnWa

Obama's firm decisiveness and determination in refusing to bow to Netanyahu's demands for the US to commit to military action against Iran is honorable. Now that Netanyahu has been humbled by the US refusing to be dictated to by an "ally", he has effectively been forced to back down on his threats of a late 2012 military strike against Iran. Now that Netanyahu's finally tasted some humble pie, hopefully we won't have to hear so much "noise" from this odious little man.

We need to give peace a chance.

100 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3416 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3781 times:
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Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
We need to give peace a chance.

You can never put Peace and Netanyahu in the same phrase.   



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2295 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3775 times:

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
There is an excellent editorial in the Financial Times

Google for the title of that article - clicking on the link asked me for $$$.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1):
You can never put Peace and Netanyahu in the same phrase.

  

I really wonder if there will ever be a generation of young Israelis that is fed up with their foreign policy. If violence doesn't achieve the goal, use more violence. If intimidations do not work, use more of them. If sanctions do not work, push the UN for some more.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3767 times:

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
Now that Netanyahu has been humbled by the US refusing to be dictated to by an "ally", he has effectively been forced to back down on his threats of a late 2012 military strike against Iran. Now that Netanyahu's finally tasted some humble pie, hopefully we won't have to hear so much "noise" from this odious little man.

Although I dislike BN, I dislike Ahmedinejad and the Iranian leadership even more; I think we also need to understand the Israeli mindset when it comes to people like Ahmedinejad. People of Netanyahu's parents generation will have heard him (Ahmedinejad) and thought "we've heard this before, haven't we, and nothing was done then, to stop another odious little man, until it was too late". We cannot underestimate the effect that the holocaust has and continues to have on the Jewish psyche, nor of course can we blame them for this. If I were Israeli, I'd be quite concerned; what would be the use of an Israeli PM who simply ignored such ramblings, particularly if there is evidence that the country he leads is building nuclear weapons. They simply can't take the chance.

I agree that Obama's line is, however, a very good one. He was not bowed to BN's request to draw a red line, but he has said that Iran will not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. I do also believe that BN must be very frustrated at seeing Romney's presidential bid go down the drain; Romney as US president would have been a gift to the Israelis, who've never really liked Obama anyway; Romney is a complete greenhorn on foreign policy and surrounded by the same neocons who pulled Bush II's strings, they'd have control of Romney's foreign policy in no time (if they hadn't drafted it already, which I suspect they had).

I realise that both of the above paragraphs may seem contradictory, but basically, my line would be, I don't like either BN or MA, but I dislike and distrust MA more. I think Obama is doing the right thing and I think that the policy of squeezing Iran through economic sanctions is already having an effect (even though the Iranians won't admit this, of course).


User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2487 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3718 times:
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Kaitak pretty much sums it up. I will add

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
their repetitive military threats against Iran.

Who is threatening whom? BN is simply reacting to all the threats from MA. I would expect nothing less from my government if some nut case kept threatening our inhiliation.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
arrogant

When it comes to arrogance MA takes the cake!

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
flawed warmongering strategy

Again, BA was elected to protect his country and I believe he will do whatever it takes to do so. If an Adolf Hitler wanabe comes along and threatens the existence of Israel they are delusional if they don't think Israel is going to survive no matter what it needs to do. The last time the Jewish people waited around for the "approval" of the non-Jewish world for help, over 6 million died.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
refusing to bow to Netanyahu's demands

Nobody will ever know whether or not Obama has refused anything. Most situations like this are handled behind closed doors anyway and we will never know what is really going on. AND you can be assured that on the highest levels the Gulf Countries are well represented too. MA is just as big a threat to them it's just that, as usual, Israel becomes everyone's scapegoat.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
We need to give peace a chance.

Really, well, tell that to Ahmedinejad.  



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7801 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3692 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
We need to give peace a chance.

Really, well, tell that to Ahmedinejad.  

Why does everyone assume he'd actually use a nuke? Minus that horribly out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinemaxthrusta330 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3655 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
Nobody will ever know whether or not Obama has refused anything.

We already do know, I'm confused by your comment - didn't you read the Financial Times article? Netanyahu wanted to force Obama's hand into committing to support a Israeli military strike against Iran - Obama refused to be dictated to by Netanyahu, and Netanyahu's bully boy tactics subsequently fell flat on their face. The whole world knows that Israel is a military lightweight without US support. Simply put, if the US refuses to support an Israeli attack on Iran, Israel is too weak to take on Iran on its own - the Israelis know that they'll get a good hiding  


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6517 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
we've heard this before, haven't we, and nothing was done then

You mean people getting second class citizen status, being rounded up in ghettos after their land and homes were stolen ?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
Who is threatening whom? BN is simply reacting to all the threats from MA. I would expect nothing less from my government if some nut case kept threatening our inhiliation.

Nothing less than yet another war ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19378 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Why does everyone assume he'd actually use a nuke? Minus that horribly out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

I don't think it's misquoted or out of context. I also don't think he actually believes that he could possibly succeed at such a project.


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3570 times:

I wonder why we the west haven't drawn a red line under Israel's own nuclear program, it would appear fair to me that if Iran isn't allowed nukes Israel shouldn't either.

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7801 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3561 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Why does everyone assume he'd actually use a nuke? Minus that horribly out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

I don't think it's misquoted or out of context.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...and_Israel#Translation_controversy



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19378 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3521 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud...and_Israel#Translation_controversy

Yes, when he said that, I don't think he actually meant he was going to carpet-nuke Israel, but that his wish was for the nation and government of Israel to vanish and be replaced with something else.

If you are an Israeli, those two ends are not dissimilar.


User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 695 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3470 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):

Why does everyone assume he'd actually use a nuke?

A nuke means invading Iran becomes virtually unthinkable. This is their main purpose, securing themselves against military invasion. Actually using a nuke is suicide for the Iranian regime.
.
It is the immunity from invasion bought by a nuclear deterrent in Iran that REALLY sours Netanyahu on this topic. Doug Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Kristol and Michael Ledeen picked the the wrong country to invade in their eternal quest to aggresively fight the enemies of Israel.


...this situation of a more vulnerable Israeli position is one of the many less advertised consequences of Bush's wars...

Pu


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6517 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
I wonder why we the west haven't drawn a red line under Israel's own nuclear program, it would appear fair to me that if Iran isn't allowed nukes Israel shouldn't either.

Indeed, Iran (and many other countries, should I add) wants some nukes because Israel has many.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3378 times:

Good for Obama, I know he's on edge and really knows that it's definitely in not just America's but the rest of the world's best interest to strike Iran. This will lead to WW3 and after all who wants to pay $10 a gallon
Look, Iran has signed the NPT Israel hasn't
Iran is a really peaceful country in the sense that they have not invaded any other country

But god Netanyahu has got stop this madness
And we as Americans have to fight Zionism or I truly believe it will be the end of us

I understand Obama has an election and is posturing but he can truly shake things up and leave a lasting legacy since he all but secured his second term

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1):
You can never put Peace and Netanyahu in the same phrase.

Amen!

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
Who is threatening whom? BN is simply reacting to all the threats from MA. I would expect nothing less from my government if some nut case kept threatening our inhiliation.

Haha because he threatened to "Wipe Israel Off the map!" right?   



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19378 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3336 times:

Quoting pu (Reply 12):
A nuke means invading Iran becomes virtually unthinkable.

It becomes a battle of wills. Do they nuke our troops and their own country? Or not...? And we have more nukes than they do.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3309 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Why does everyone assume he'd actually use a nuke? Minus that horribly out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

Which could actually mean Mr A was indirectly referring to a one-state solution: Palestine.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
I don't think it's misquoted or out of context. I also don't think he actually believes that he could possibly succeed at such a project.

See above.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 9):
I wonder why we the west haven't drawn a red line under Israel's own nuclear program, it would appear fair to me that if Iran isn't allowed nukes Israel shouldn't either.

I overall agree and I think Israel's nuclear arsenal sort of underlies the various terror acts going on at the margins: everyone understands that they cannot defeat Israel in a 'normal' war, so they resort to irritating Israel continually and hopefully goad them into doing something truly awful.

As for BN, I view him as the biggest threat to peace in the ME region. His own military seem to be very much against a strike. Yet he has the audacity to bite the hand that keeps Israel afloat.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3295 times:

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
It also truly defies logic:

He's what I would call a school yard bully, but a bully who's to gutless to actually do any bullying himself, he get his mates to do it for him, and then appears to be blameless and covered in Teflon.

Quoting maxthrusta330 (Thread starter):
Now that Netanyahu's finally tasted some humble pie, hopefully we won't have to hear so much "noise" from this odious little man.

It's a bit like a pimple on the end of your nose, you know, the one that takes ages to "mature" and "pop" just when you've been invited to a family reunion or the like. Everyone see's it !

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 2):
If sanctions do not work, push the UN for some more.

And when all that fails, run to the POTUS and pull on his shirt tails.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
I think Obama is doing the right thing and I think that the policy of squeezing Iran through economic sanctions is already having an effect (even though the Iranians won't admit this, of course).

I generally agree with Obama, but not on this issue.

And I think, what you can safely say about the Iranians and sanctions is, that it will turn another generation against the west, that's all.

Sanction rarely have ANY positive outcome, either way.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
Who is threatening whom?

You don't know ?
Seems' quite clear to many

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
The last time the Jewish people waited around for the "approval" of the non-Jewish world for help, over 6 million died.

So what are you saying ?
You want to kill millions of Iranians, and perhaps millions of Israelis, and containment a large part of the earth, just to show otherwise ?

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
MA is just as big a threat to them it's just that, as usual, Israel becomes everyone's scapegoat.

Um, where are all these other countries you claim to be threatened..... strangely, they seem to be silent.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
Minus that horribly out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

How many times have we ALL been through this..... and they still continue to bring it up ad nausea !

Quoting Aesma (Reply 13):
Indeed, Iran (and many other countries, should I add) wants some nukes because Israel has many.

And this is the entire crux of the matter. If its ok for some, then why not others ?
You just cant say "yes" to some and "no" to others. It is just impossible.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 14):
And we as Americans have to fight Zionism or I truly believe it will be the end of us

  

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
It becomes a battle of wills. Do they nuke our troops and their own country? Or not...? And we have more nukes than they do.

Ok, but we don't want to turn it into an arms race. Gee we've been there already.

[Edited 2012-09-30 00:54:26]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3282 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 4):
The last time the Jewish people waited around for the "approval" of the non-Jewish world for help, over 6 million died.

That's not entirely true, that 6 million also included Roma, homosexuals, and political dissidents, I don't know why the world lets israel get away with claiming all holocaust victims were jews.


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13165 posts, RR: 78
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3281 times:

What really spiked his guns was the complete lack of enthusiasm of the Chiefs Of Staff of the IDF, for an attack on Iran.
They, after all, would have to plan and implement an attack, would have to weigh up the pros and cons, likely Iranian response, international implications, the chance of anything more than a short term, limited, effect on the Iranian bomb project.
And they were deeply sceptical of the whole idea.

Also, Netty, with his not very well disguised push for the GOP in the 2012 election, has taken a political risk that he might well regret. To add to his attempts to bounce to the US into a massively risky policy.
In that sense, the USA could be forgiven for telling Netty, 'we pay your bills, butt out'.


User currently offlinejohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3216 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
I don't know why the world lets israel get away with claiming all holocaust victims were jews.

Because they have a better PR machine.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13031 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

Let us not forget that Bibi Netanyahu has to show a very aggressive policy as to the rest of the ME, and especially to Iran, due to Jewish history, internal Israeli politics and to keep his job. Ahmadinejad also plays an aggressive policy for Iranian pride and position in the ME/Islamic world for domestic Iranian consumption, to show that Iran will not accept Western control of their country, people and their oil.

As some others noted, I suspect there was serious negotiations between the USA and Israeli respective State Departments, between President Obama and PM Netanyahu including at least a 1 hour phone call the Friday before they both appeared before the UN to present carefully worded, firm but not angry presentation of support against possible nuke bomb development in Iran and their support of forces in Lebanon, Syria and the Palestinian Territories against Israel. For several years it has been alleged that the USA and Israel have been involved in 'cyber war' as well assassinations of key scientists in Iran to disrupt nuke bomb development.

Hopefully some of the worst risks of a conflict has been reduced to a low simmer, but still I would not count out Israel doing something in Syria to cut off Iran's support of anti-Israeli forces there.


User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3194 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 14):

But god Netanyahu has got stop this madness
And we as Americans have to fight Zionism or I truly believe it will be the end of us

It would be amazing to see what would happen if somebody dug up concrete evidence proving once and for all that both the Zionists and Muslims were flat wrong about the origins and future of life on this planet (well, actually I believe we already have but that's another thread).

Their arguments against each other would be reduced to very practical ones like who owns what land etc. that at least have some sliver of a chance of being resolved rationally once the supernatural content is pared away. Or at least seen for what they are by a world that would be much less sympathetic to either side's case.

As it is, with both sides believing in divine support for their positions and the continuation of this struggle into eternity there can't possibly be compromise on earth.


User currently offlinepu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 695 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 22):
Their arguments against each other would be reduced to very practical ones like who owns what land etc. that at least have some sliver of a chance of being resolved rationally once the supernatural content is pared away

My analysis after decades of intense unbiased study (kidding) is that they really aren't using the "supernatural content" insofar as their war with each other goes.

Palestinians are pissed off because Israel was created at the end of WW2 without their permission, Muslims worldwide sympathise with them, and Israel's point is that they are a soveriegn nation formed by UN mandate no less.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 22):

Or at least seen for what they are by a world that would be much less sympathetic to either side's case.

      Yes!
Basically its the 1.5 billion Muslims versus ~300 million Americans/Israelis, with religion being the major bond for each side, in global terms. It is a little odd to me that Christians in America so forcefully back Israel...
.
and even if through some miracle (!) the 2 state solution comes about, what to do about Jerusalem and the Dome of the Rock / Temple Mount is going to be a ...problem....

Pu

[first post with added animation!]

[Edited 2012-09-30 08:26:21]

User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2487 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3173 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
also included Roma, homosexuals, and political dissidents

Trying to marginalize the numbers of Jews murdered is just another way to try to de-legitimize the situation.

Just the usual level of anti-semitism that goes on with this blog.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
to many

Many? You mean the HAND-FULL of the usual Jew-haters on this blog?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):
strangely, they seem to be silent

Nothing strange about it. The Saudis and the other oil producing Gulf States are scared to death MA will do the same thing to them that Iraq did to Kuwait, but they don't have the balls to come right out and say it lest they appear to take a stand against their fellow Muslims. It is much easier to try to make Israel the "bad guy"----as usual. BUT, behind closed-doors, at the highest levels of government, you better believe they are working with the United States AND Israel because if the s#$t hits the fan, it will be the U.S. and Israel that will be expected to do all the "dirty-work" AS USUAL. (If the oil is to be protected, of course).

I think it's about time the Muslim nations of the Gulf showed some back-bone and stood-up to Ahmadenijad, draw their own "red-line" and show him who's boss! Instead of paving their streets with gold and flying around in golden flying palaces, the so call "royalty" should spend their money instead of ours if they need protection!

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
out of context, misquoted "wipe Israel off the map line"

Not worth a reply, as usual.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 14):
Haha because he threatened to "Wipe Israel Off the map!" right?

Oh, let me guess, another Jew-hater right?  



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
25 Post contains links tugger : Don't take this the wrong way, I respect the two of you here and what you post normally, but not this. It's not "The Jews PR machine" or the world le
26 mham001 : LOL. They just pay proxies to do their dirty work.
27 Post contains links flyingturtle : I love how the Antisemitism club is swung. If you aren't in favor of Israel's existence, then... Truth is, Israel needs to be razed and newly built e
28 Post contains images ImperialEagle : Such as Switzerland perhaps?
29 SOBHI51 : Did not know you get a recording of those meetings. He is just saying facts, there is no denial that a huge number of Jews lost there lives. Now if i
30 SmittyOne : I agree with you, and with the rest of your post that it is the bystanders lining up behind their favorite team that will preclude a rational solutio
31 Cadet985 : I'm afraid you are mistaken. There were 6 million JEWS killed during the Holocaust. If you were to add up the Roma, homosexuals, dissidents, gypsies,
32 SOBHI51 : Those nuclear sites in Iran are deep inside mountains and underground, only a nuclear strike might manage to destroy them, i do not see how Bibi can
33 DeltaMD90 : Jew hater?! Are you kidding me!? I am VERY pro-Israel. They've had a tough ride and I sympathize for them. A good friend of mine is in the IDF. But j
34 mham001 : Actually, just burying them for a short time would be a significant setback, although not program ending.
35 KiwiRob : The problem is just because the Germans had a good crack at exterminating all the jews in Europe did not give the rest of the world the right to forc
36 SOBHI51 : So, endangering a WWIII just for a delay action? Not sure i like this choice.
37 Post contains images Ken777 : I believe Netanyahu's actions were as much an effort to help Romney as it was to push Obama. It is clearly in Netanyahu's interest to have a Presiden
38 DeltaMD90 : Probably the same direction as long as the same Ayatollahs keep running things
39 Post contains images maxthrusta330 : Change the record will you... I like many others am sick of people being labeled "anti-semites" simply because they say something about Israel that p
40 ImperialEagle : So you truly believe things such as that never happen? Seriously? Yes, you ARE an anti-semite, that is your right. Own it! Thankyou! Since you are ob
41 AirPacific747 : Or maybe Israels neighbours should just learn to accept the existence of the jewish state. Many European countries have lost big territories during w
42 pu : Is there a reason why the people then living in Southwest Asia should respect the British judgment on who should live where? or put another way, Why
43 SOBHI51 : And who are you to decide what i am or to try to run somebody else life. Just another person who when he can not find a response you start accusation
44 Aaron747 : Oh where to start? Yes, especially since many of them were so busy being genuinely anti-Jewish just a couple generations ago. Ask Sandy Koufax and Al
45 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Dude, do you even know what that means? Simply disagreeing with the way the Israeli government does things doesn't make someone an anti-Semite. Oh th
46 Post contains images flyingturtle : Surely you are in need of a history lesson. Could you point out some similarities between Israel and Switzerland? Why would the Palestinians ever acc
47 Post contains images ImperialEagle : Exactly what I thought when I waded into this one! Nor should you. BUT, there is a difference between criticizing Israel and DEMONIZING her which the
48 Post contains images johnboy : Surely there has to be some type of corollary to Godwin's Law that covers lobbing out the tiresome bleating of "you're an anti-semite!!!" or "you're a
49 DeltaMD90 : I don't think anyone on this forum is defending any slaughter. You do realize that there are NOT just 2 sides to this issue... someone doesn't have t
50 Aesma : It's in fact far easier to be against the Israeli government, since there is actually one. It has an opposition of course, but still, it has been elec
51 Aaron747 : I don't really see any demonization in this thread though. Well-deserved criticism in more respects than not. Both the Israeli and Palestinian offici
52 Post contains images connies4ever : Ayatollah Ali Larijani (who may be a candidate for President in the next election) has publicly stated that Iran is going to move from fundamentalism
53 thegreatRDU : You're pathetic, what are you trying to turn this thread into with such racist name calling? Were having a spirited, but civil debate here...there wi
54 johns624 : So are Israeli citizens who are against an attack anti-Semitic as well? Sorry to break it to you, but Israel has many political parties and they don'
55 Acheron : Like the US paid the Afghan Mujahideens in the 80's and West buddies' known as Qatar and KSA pay other nutjobs nowadays. Everybody plays that game.
56 Darksnowynight : There are all kinds on non-nuclear options for that. Let's not get carried away. In any case, an attack is unlikely to happen. Let's not get started
57 KiwiRob : Why should the British have offered the Palestinians land which was already theirs? Maybe you should read the book 'The Arabs'. What right did the Br
58 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : I do not support theocratic states in general... however... I think this is right. "Israel has long crossed nuclear red line: Iran's Vahidi “If havi
59 Post contains images flyingturtle : Sorry, but I took this as a honest challenge. I'm still convinced that Israel should be razed and newly built somewhere. This would give them a fresh
60 KiwiRob : Too right, we are in accord Madame, one also wonders why Israel has the need of ICBM's which can deliver those nukes which they have all the way to c
61 Post contains links and images flyingturtle : I've plotted the ranges of the Jericho I, II and III missiles and the Shavit satellite launcher using the lower estimates I've found here: http://en.
62 MD-90 : Well Israel has been doing it successfully for quite some years now...
63 Acheron : There used to be a pragmatic government in Iran, until they touched the West's oil interest. Then they got overthrown to put the Sha in power, and th
64 thegreatRDU : Netanyahu will really be all alone if he doesn't strike and force Obama's hand by the election.. Once Obama locks his second term up....he won't do sq
65 Post contains images sovietjet :
66 MD11Engineer : I´ve also read that the old pragmatist Rafsanjani (spelling?) is back in the race, evrn though both his son and his daughter have been arrested by t
67 Post contains images connies4ever : Other than cyberwarfare, what ? And several of the nuclear sites are now "off the grid" in terms of cyberwarfare. I thought it was the Israeli govern
68 Post contains images AirPacific747 : Excellent idea, but you missed a few spots
69 Post contains images MadameConcorde : How can you wish for a nuclear attack on some of us humans? "Problem solved?" Are you serious? What have they done to you to wish them such fate? Suc
70 Post contains images flyingturtle : Never mind, his plan will also solve another great problem: Our dependence on fossil fuels. Signed, David
71 Post contains links and images ImperialEagle : Never have such a handfull of anti-semites validated my opinions so thoroughly as on this thread! Thak you all very much! Now, on to better things----
72 Aesma : I guess Jews/Israelis can do no harm then. They're all little angels.
73 bestwestern : Imperial - i for one am not anti Semite, but anti idiot.
74 Post contains images flyingturtle : Why does Israel need any enemies like Iran if it has friends like you? David[Edited 2012-10-02 07:07:17]
75 daviation : Really? I think ImperialEagle is perfectly rational. When Mr Turtle suggests that we raze Israel, I have to wonder who is really crazy here. And the o
76 Aesma : I guess you are equally against Israel bulldozing or bombing Palestinian homes and constructions in the Gaza strip, West Bank and east Jerusalem, then
77 flyingturtle : If you want to leave Israel as it is, you're assuming that the foundation of Israel wasn't a problem. However, I am convinced that the birth of that
78 Aesma : There are in fact anti-zionist Israelis. Can you imagine that in other countries ? Some people want independence for their part of a country, but they
79 MadameConcorde : None of you here would want to be a average Iranian. We are nowhere as bad as Iran - the average weekly net wage is around $120 and you are spending a
80 DeltaMD90 : Do you have a source for this?? I mean I disagree with the way Israel is handling this, but why would they want to bomb Iran and kill their nuclear s
81 Post contains images flyingturtle : It's twisted, but still logical. Iranian nuclear scientists are assassinated to prove that Iran is building a bomb. Then, people like you say Iran mu
82 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : OK... took me a little while but I found it... This is the article: Israel army chief says Iran not building nuclear bomb Israel's military chief sai
83 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Well that still doesn't explain why they're killing the scientists in the first place lol. Unless people in turn, saying there must be a bomb made Is
84 Post contains images flyingturtle : Comrade, I see you have the wits to work in any secret service. My intel says that these "assassinations" are a ploy to make the world believe that t
85 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Well great, we uncovered the secret. I guess we should enjoy our last few minutes before Mossad comes to our doors and takes us out for uncovering th
86 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Not Israel. I'd say rather Netanyahu and his clan. Most people in Israel don't want a war against Iran. They know they have more to lose than gain fr
87 Post contains images thegreatRDU : what do you call an Israeli who is against Zionism and doesn't want WW3 with Iran then?
88 Acheron : The default go-to card when out of arguments. Up there in inanity with Hitler comparisons. self-hating jew?. At least that's the term I've seen being
89 Post contains links flyingturtle : Jews have enough problems of their own. Like the eternal struggle between assimilating in the "other" culture, or if they should hold fast to their o
90 johnboy : Hmmm. I think someone is getting a perverse thrill out of the attention. Sounds familiar.
91 DeltaMD90 : So you're saying that Neanyahu believes Iran is making a nuke? Again, I'm having trouble figuring out why ANYONE would want to fight Iran just becaus
92 flyingturtle : I also believe that no ordinary citizen in Israel wants war. But from what I'm reading about Israel and its society I know that the citizen trust the
93 Post contains links SFBdude : http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-appears-to-prep-iran-strikes?lite That's just one of many. There are also reports on international news statio
94 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Israelis oppose war with Iran despite govt's hawkish stance More than 400 Israelis, including prominent academics, have signed an online petition app
95 777way : there could be two reasons, one to teach Iran a lesson for daring to stand up against Israel and say unsavory things, two something deeper perhaps re
96 Powerslide : Only 400? Population of Israel is over 7 million, need to do better then that.
97 Post contains links flyingturtle : This sounds almost like a Dan Brown novel... but there are stranger things: An organization is preparing the second coming of the messiah, and is alr
98 777way : Reminds me of the "Petition for Building Bridges and Promoting Dialogue" of Pakistan-Israel friendship forum started by a Pakistani and Israeli guy i
99 DeltaMD90 : I don't know... that's pretty far fetched of a reason to go to war. I question some of the things their government does but this is way out there. No
100 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Former. Secretary Gates calls Iran attack “catastrophic”, warns against “blank check” for Israel... Quote: ….”The results of an American o
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