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Here Comes The Presidential Debates  
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8481 posts, RR: 9
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5522 times:

The first Presidential Debate is tomorrow (Wednesday) at 9PM to 10:30 PM Eastern timeZone.

The Moderator is Jim Lehrer (Host of NewsHour on PBS), who does have a solid reputation.

Quote:
The debate will focus on domestic policy and be divided into six time segments of approximately 15 minutes each on topics to be selected by the moderator and announced several weeks before the debate.

So far both sides have been downplaying their candidate's Debating Ability. Paul Ryan has actually said that this is Romney's "first time he has debated".         

Wonder what part of the primaries debates that Ryan didn't understand.

My bet for the debates is that Romney will do very well, but might be hesitant to hit as hard s he has in the primaries and so far to date in the campaign. It will be his first time in a debate with a President and the Office does have a power in itself.

Looking at health care, Romney's problem is RomneyCare - very similar to ObamaCare. He also has a serious problem (IMO) with his deflection of important questions - like what middle class loopholes will be killed when he "cuts taxes".

Overall Romney does have an issue with "effecting questions". The only question is if Obama can hit him effectively with that.

Other scheduled debates:

The only Vice President Debate is October 11th

Quote:
The debate will cover both foreign and domestic topics and be divided into nine time segments of approximately 10 minutes each.

The Second Presidential Debate is October 16th.

Quote:
The second presidential debate will take the form of a town meeting, in which citizens will ask questions of the candidates on foreign and domestic issues.

The last Presidential Debate is October 22

Quote:
The second presidential debate will take the form of a town meeting, in which citizens will ask questions of the candidates on foreign and domestic issues.

Link for all:

http://www.2012presidentialelectionn...2012-presidential-debate-schedule/

So who's going with Romney or Obama to win this one?

235 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5503 times:
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Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
So who's going with Romney or Obama to win this one?

With way the polls are i think Obama just needs to keep cool and not do anything drastic. He needs to leave the "misspeaking" to Romney. He need to leave the "zinger" and the desperation to Romney

On the other hand, I saw something interesting last night, the talking claimed that if Romney does not fall on his face, it would be a victory for him. And I agree.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2311 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks ago) and read 5498 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):

With way the polls are i think Obama just needs to keep cool and not do anything drastic. He needs to leave the "misspeaking" to Romney. He need to leave the "zinger" and the desperation to Romney

That's what i was thinking, Obama can really put the nail in the coffin here



Our Returning Champion
User currently onlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4795 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
My bet for the debates is that Romney will do very well, but might be hesitant to hit as hard s he has in the primaries and so far to date in the campaign. It will be his first time in a debate with a President and the Office does have a power in itself.

Romney's biggest problem is that he has not been effective in communicating what exactly he will do. Their is a lot of murk and unknown details. He needs to be precise and cutting against Obama. For example everyone knows that Obama wants to raise taxes on the wealthy, and leave most of the rest of the taxes in place for now. However romney has generically hinted at radical and sweeping cuts, without identifying the loopholes that will equilibrate the lost income. It is a bit of "voodoo" economics. He can't make these promises without some hard numbers, and I think that a lot of folks will be looking to that. He needs to differentiate himself, and domestifcally I am really not sure how he will do it other than taxes. Obamacare is a bad road for him, and today he basically said he would allow the "dreamers" to stay in country so Immigration won't be a differentiator.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8197 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 5460 times:

I think Romney is going to get his ass handed to him on a plate tomorrow. Looking forward to it - a lot.

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
Paul Ryan has actually said that this is Romney's "first time he has debated".

The Republicans will say any* lie, no matter how bald-faced, and Ryan is as bad as any of them when it comes to "truthiness".

* "we won't let our campaign be dictated to by fact-checkers" - wow is that ever true.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5620 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5440 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 2):
Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):

With way the polls are i think Obama just needs to keep cool and not do anything drastic. He needs to leave the "misspeaking" to Romney. He need to leave the "zinger" and the desperation to Romney

That's what i was thinking, Obama can really put the nail in the coffin here

Romney did that for him with the '47%' secret comments... game over. This is simply for shirts & giggles...

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5405 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):
On the other hand, I saw something interesting last night, the talking claimed that if Romney does not fall on his face, it would be a victory for him. And I agree.


I think the expectations for Romney are lowers and polls show that. That honestly is a good thing. Romney is a good at debating though. So is President Obama of course. Because expectations are lower I think Romney pulls this one off for a few reasons.
First he will surpass expectations. Second we have all heard what Obama thinks over and over again we know what he thinks which leads to if Romney can say something new with details that will give people something to think about. And lastly with President Obama leading in the polls he knows he should not do anything drastic. He will take this one easy and see what happens. The worst thing he could do is mess it up himself.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 3):
Romney's biggest problem is that he has not been effective in communicating what exactly he will do


Agreed. I really hope he gets out there with some better details. He does not have all the time in the world it is not easy to giving details in 9 minutes that is what Obama does well. Or at least he makes it seem like he is giving details. It is all about perseption in time limited things like this.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
I think Romney is going to get his ass handed to him on a plate tomorrow. Looking forward to it - a lot.


Thought we could finally just maybe have a decent civilized thread at least until the debate is over. Guess I was wrong. But this is exactly the expectation of many, especially the Dems. This is why I think Romney can have a good night.

But lets be real there is no score card. Dems are going to think everything Obama said was great and Repubs are going to say the same for Romney. The people in the middle are who count but there are not many of them.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20352 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5397 times:

Quoting BN747 (Reply 5):
This is simply for shirts & giggles...

But it always is. I doubt many voters base their votes off the debates. Frankly, I view the debates as being about as useful as the conventions.

"You tell 'im, Barak!"
"Give it back to him, Mitt!"

Buncha cheerleading on both sides, not much new gets said. If you pay attention to what was said in the press releases and speeches, that's what really counts.

If anything, these debates will be amusing. Romney has a way with words like Humpty Dumpty does with walls. And Barak Obama, while he's a great speaker, isn't exactly good at winging it on his feet.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7979 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5377 times:

So to sum up the last couple weeks I've, I've heard:

Democrats saying Romney is a good debater
Democrats saying Romney is a bad debater
Republicans saying Romney is a good debater
Republicans saying Romney is a bad debater

Looks like no one knows what's going on



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20352 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5375 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 8):

Democrats saying Romney is a good debater
Democrats saying Romney is a bad debater
Republicans saying Romney is a good debater
Republicans saying Romney is a bad debater

Looks like no one knows what's going on

Pretty much, yeah.

Besides, honestly, the two candidates are so wildly different that if you haven't figured out who you're voting for yet, you obviously either haven't been paying attention or don't care.


User currently onlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1509 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
But it always is. I doubt many voters base their votes off the debates. Frankly, I view the debates as being about as useful as the conventions.

I don't think you can win the Presidency during the debates, but I think you can lose it. Romney's problem is that debates are the area Obama excelled in most during the last campaign, so unless he just fails to prepare it's hard to see where he's going to stumble.

Can't wait for the VP debate though....



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20352 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5364 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 10):
I don't think you can win the Presidency during the debates, but I think you can lose it.

I'll give you that. But then again, I think Romney lost it a while ago. As I said, he has a way with words...


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8481 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5348 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
I think the expectations for Romney are lowers and polls show that.



I believe the polls are very different from debate expectations. Romney has some difficulties in the polls, but he has been in a LOT of debates in this year. The GOP primaries was very good practice for the candidate. Well, most of them.

I expect Romney to do very well in the debate. I believe he will continue to deflect questions that require delivering what the middle class would be facing under a Romney Administration. Possible a hit on his tax returns.

Quoting flymia (Reply 6):
I really hope he gets out there with some better details.

I believe he will skillfully deflect delivering details. He's avoided details so far and I don't expect him to change unless he goes a lot further in the polls.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5340 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
I believe he will skillfully deflect delivering details. He's avoided details so far and I don't expect him to change unless he goes a lot further in the polls.

I think he should go ahead and give some so maybe it helps him in the polls.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12):
I believe the polls are very different from debate expectations. Romney has some difficulties in the polls, but he has been in a LOT of debates in this year.

Sorry should have mentioned it, I was only referring to the CNN poll about the debate. I agree with you though Romney has had a lot of practice and the general polls mean nothing about the debate. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ll-who-will-win-wednesdays-debate/

Quote:
According to a ABC News/Washington Post national poll released Monday, 55% of likely voters say they think the president will win the debate, with 31% saying that Romney will be victorious.


Everyone knows Pres Obama is a great speaker but he is not the best off the top of his head. We will see what happens. Should be an entertaining night watching and here on the forum for the aftermath



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineCaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1582 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

im just sick and tired of Romney and Ryan and their lying asses. Seriously  . Obama just needs to win this and lets get on with the next 4 years!

User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5289 times:

Quoting CaliAtenza (Reply 14):

You call Romenu and Ryan liers. There are plenty of things Obama has lied and or failed about. If this said during a campaign is considered lying Pres Obama is full of them!



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Is it a real debate, face to face answering and attacking each other, or is it a speech with interruptions to let the other candidate make his speech ?

Also, do some soundbites from debates stay in memory ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4903 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5252 times:

I was reading somewhere that since both Romney and Obama are individually boring speakers, expect the debates to be MASSIVELY boring!   

User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10934 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5252 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
The first Presidential Debate is tomorrow (Wednesday) at 9PM to 10:30 PM Eastern timeZone.

I would really like to watch this but it will be live cast at stupid o'clock in the night my time. I guess I will have to watch a replay.

 

As to which candidate has the most chances of getting the job at the White House I will have to let those in charge decide who they want. I would certainly prefer one who will oppose war rather than one who will push for war.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3877 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5196 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 3):

Romney's biggest problem is that he has not been effective in communicating what exactly he will do. Their is a lot of murk and unknown details.

Yep. Did you see the infamous clip when Chris Wallace (of Fox News) tried to get Paul Ryan to elaborate on some of the details, and Ryan blew him off? And then Romney's op-ed in the Wall Street Journal about foreign policy the other day that said absolutely nothing about what he would do when he was in office?

From another perspective, it's kind of ironic that the Republicans criticized (And rightfully so--I completely agreed with the criticism) Obama in 2008 for the nebulous concepts of "Hope" and "Change" without offering much in the way of specifics, and in 2012 the Republicans' own candidates are running on a basic platform of change, and not offering much in the way of specifics.


User currently onlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4795 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

Quoting us330 (Reply 19):

From another perspective, it's kind of ironic that the Republicans criticized (And rightfully so--I completely agreed with the criticism) Obama in 2008 for the nebulous concepts of "Hope" and "Change" without offering much in the way of specifics, and in 2012 the Republicans' own candidates are running on a basic platform of change, and not offering much in the way of specifics.

Yeah, but everyone needed hope and change in 2008. The problem now is that you have had a congress sceaming for two years about budgets and deficits, and now Romney is coming in and basically saying we will change the tax code, and that will magically fix some things. But he is not being specific. People want specifics because everyone is tired of the old, we have to cut this and that, but when push comes to shove , no one wants to cut this vs that.
Everyone is suspicious of Romney and Ryan's plan because it is basically about flatening the tax code, and killing some sacred cows to keep it revenue neutral or raise revenue. Where thos revenue shifts come from should not be a limited discussion about etheral "loopholes".



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11801 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 5137 times:

*yawn* wake me when I get my ballot....


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2843 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5110 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 16):
Is it a real debate, face to face answering and attacking each other, or is it a speech with interruptions to let the other candidate make his speech ?

Also, do some soundbites from debates stay in memory ?

The moderator asks each questions that they answer in their own way, mostly rehearsed. They are on the same stage across from each other at podiums usually.

Reagan was a great debater. He has some very memorable quotes attributed to him from debates. For example:

"Ask yourself, 'Are you better off now than you were four years ago? Is it easier for you to go and buy things in the stores than it was four years ago? Is there more or less unemployment in the country than there was four years ago? Is America as respected throughout the world as it was?”

The Vice Presidential debates can be good too. Quayle and Bentsen in '88.

Quayle: "I have as much experience in the Congress as Jack Kennedy did when he sought the presidency."

Bentsen: "I knew Jack Kennedy; Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy."


I'm planning on going to the gym tonight and watching it while I run on the treadmill. The wife could care less about it, so I figure I'll save her the heartache.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21867 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5086 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 16):
Also, do some soundbites from debates stay in memory ?

McCain had a good one from a debate four years ago that stuck with me: "Senator [Obama], I'm not George Bush. If you wanted to run against George Bush you should have run four years ago."

He did lose the election of course, but that was for other reasons.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

Thanks for your answers. I'll probably download it on the newsgroups to see for myself.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
25 Ken777 : That was a great line - I had forgotten it. I'm sure that both Romney & Obama have had some great lines written for them. The question is how wel
26 SmittyOne : Or, if you're like me you feel like a CIWS on the corner of the flight deck...with two missiles coming at you at the same time and aren't sure which
27 casinterest : Ok everyone , here we go. Everyone take a drink each time the following are mentioned . Middle Class Tax Cuts Class Warfare Deficit I'd continue, but
28 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Well I haven't heard "class warfare," but I've already heard the other few a million times lol. Kinda off topic, but I love how Romney has only one e
29 QFA380 : So far, from mine looks like Romney might have a slight edge. Love his caveat, 'no tax cut that adds to the deficit', here's a tax cut, loljokes, we d
30 casinterest : For those still sober..... add "that's not my plan "to the list.
31 SmittyOne : Hahaha yes. "Get the job done" too. So far Governor Romney is actually impressing me a little bit. I thought his quip about "having five boys so he k
32 DeltaMD90 : I'm quite impressed too... it's an actual rational argument! You can truly see that both these men want the best for America... I hope PHX787 isn't p
33 casinterest : Personality wise he is doing ok, but he is getting flustered over Obama's ripping apart of the Romney Tax Plan. I'll be interested to see how the fac
34 Post contains images SmittyOne : Same here...frankly they throw out so many figures it's really impossible to figure out who is full of crap in real time. All a debate is really good
35 DeltaMD90 : Mitt sure is going over his allotted time though. Geez Louise!
36 casinterest : I don;t think I have seen so many numbers thrown out in a debate. George W. would have been lost in this one. They have done their homework, especial
37 SmittyOne : "And that's number one" DRINK
38 casinterest : They are staying fairly even. Lehrer is doing a pretty good job keeping them on task. "===================== "obamacare" is now added to the list.
39 comorin : Total Snoozefest... Ronmey looks like he just got off a red-eye flight. Obama posture not so great - tends to stick out rear a la Condi Rice. Other th
40 casinterest : TIme to sleep on it a bit. Thought both did well. Lotsa facts to sort through.
41 zckls04 : Right after the debate my initial feeling is that Romney came across best. Not sure whether it was "best enough", but it was definitely a pretty polis
42 flymia : Obama had over a four minute time advantage! Did not matter though, Mitt won this for sure. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just being much to partisan
43 flyguy89 : Overall it was boring lol, but I thought Obama held his own but Romney came off sharper.
44 SmittyOne : The sad feeling I'm left with after watching this is...do we as a nation have anything more impressive to aspire to than having the Government make su
45 casinterest : The one problem that Romney has, that a lot of people will reflect on tommorrow is that Romney never quite explained the tax cuts and revenue at all t
46 pu : Both of them threw around a lot of trillion dollar this and billion dollar that, you need to have a nerdy guy come on the corner of the screen to tell
47 Post contains links and images PHX787 : From my end: The cargo hold filled with the amount of people who give a **** about the debate View Large View MediumPhoto © Sandro Mederle - Jetliner
48 flymia : Agreed I think that is why they stay away from details. 95% of the people watching would just get lose in numbers,
49 SmittyOne : True. An analysis that I haven't seen is a comparison of how Romney actually performed fiscally as Governor vs. how the President has performed. Lack
50 ltbewr : Romney came off stronger in this 'debate' in style, Obama in numbers. No real major screw ups by either. It was at time a 'wonkish', numbers trading d
51 Ken777 : I believe that tonight Romney took over the debate. He ran it instead of the Moderator. That points to the moderator more than Romney. Obama looked to
52 flymia : I fully expect Pres Obama will be in great form for the next one. VP debate between that one. That is more entertainment than anything. I can see what
53 NAV20 : Classic case of 'what you put in the hours,' in my view. I'm genuinely neutral on the question of who gets in; but I reckon that, rather to my surpri
54 luckyone : The problem for Obama is this debate was mostly about the economy, and the economy sucks and has sucked since the day the President took office. Yeah
55 Post contains images Mir : It's a fairly sad commentary on the state of politics that we have to wait for people to check the facts before we can figure out who really won. Tha
56 comorin : I am afraid I must say that Romney won the debate and Obama just dialed it in, like he did the Convention. What is it with Obama? I was concerned abou
57 flymia : That won't come up too much as it should not. These guys are running for president of the federal government. Not a state position and they are not S
58 comorin : It's up to Joe Biden now to save the day for the Dems. Much like when Al Gore whipped Ross Perot. Otherwise this will become a cliffhanger. Obama - pl
59 Post contains images EA CO AS : Great strategy.
60 Mercure1 : Mr Romney was quite impressive. Obama seemed confused, and made simple questions too complex. If I say so, Mr Romney seemed more "presidential" or "co
61 L-188 : Missed it because I had class. But there isn't a snowballs chance I would vote for four more years of Obummer incompetence so there wasn't much need f
62 pvjin : I hope US voters will still be intelligent enough to choose Obama, no rational man wants another George W Bush into power.
63 EA CO AS : I see; so according to you, nearly 50% of Americans are unintelligent simply because they don't support re-electing the current President?
64 airportugal310 : ...and way to be that guy... who doesn't even live or vote in the US, to boot... thanks for your informed opinion
65 SmittyOne : We're stocking up on popcorn here for this one![Edited 2012-10-04 03:50:08]
66 Post contains images luckyone : There are more issues than just women's rights, and the list is long. Off the top of my head there is the LGBT to contend with, there's education fun
67 Post contains images MadameConcorde : How many debates between the two Presidential nominees/candidates are there in total? Is it two or three? It seems that one debate is certainly not en
68 Aesma : Well, the issue of health care should have been dealt with decades if not half a century ago, it has not been so it's still an issue. And it has an e
69 SmittyOne : I'm not saying that figuring out the best way to address the rising costs of health care isn't important, especially for small business owners and em
70 Post contains links casinterest : http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...6-11e2-bb5e-492c0d30bff6_blog.html here is a blog I have been looking over, others can point to them as well. T
71 pvjin : You're welcome. I wouldn't really care about US politics if they didn't affect rest of the world so much thanks to US playing world police.
72 Aesma : You're right of course, but one of the candidates has only one response for all of those : tax cuts ! And some would say that Obama's only plan is mo
73 flipdewaf : Well just watched a 6 minute round up and I listened to some outtakes on the radio and it did seem that romney did better but it was nice to see that
74 Mir : Romney has nothing on foreign policy, other than the mistaken idea that we can somehow control everything that happens in the world. In doing so, he'
75 MadameConcorde : Thinking of the fact that some of Netanyahu's donors are also Romney's campaign donors makes it that I would rather Obama for another term. Attacking
76 Post contains images windy95 : A huge Romney win in this debate. With out the telepromptor Obama looked out of his league and confused as usual. After four years of being in office
77 Post contains images NAV20 : Have to agree. I watched the debate a bit more and have to confess that I got the impression that Obama - a guy that I instinctively like a lot - see
78 aloges : So what would you have done differently? Ground forces in Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Syria on top of Afghanistan and Iraq? B-52s instead of drones
79 flymia : Since when is Mitt Romney GWB? That certainly is insulting to me and close to half of Americans. Could not be anymore wrong too. It will more enterta
80 aloges : How so? The Iranians know as well as everyone else that actually using the Bomb would mean their annihilation. So if they build one, it will be nothi
81 Post contains links windy95 : This video from MSNBC tells it all. It also tells you how far they have their heads up Obama's rear end.... http://www.theblaze.com/stories/what...hew
82 Post contains images Aaron747 : They were both wooden, uninspiring, and frankly an embarassment while watching from abroad. They throw out factoids and numbers like they have no mean
83 Post contains images sovietjet : I've already decided that since both candidates are putting up their polished front, blaming and accusing each other, promising things they can't deli
84 mt99 : I can tell you what 47% of the American people are.. (Romney can too) I agree with the theme overall theme. Romney had nothing to loose and he played
85 NAV20 : Have to intervene a bit there, sovietjet. WW2 ended in 1945, but Germany finished up divided into West and East Germany. East Germany was occupied by
86 Ken777 : And I believe he has just done his last Presidential Debate. Hopefully. What is Obama's is how he has built on the worst economic crisis since the Gr
87 Alias1024 : This man gets it. That was a two hour debacle of not answering the question so they could get to their canned responses, with a few pointless stories
88 Post contains links windy95 : So it seems Barry's bad performance was Jim Lehrer's fault...Have to blame someone besides TOTUS.. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/l...r-reviews-13
89 pvjin : I would be speaking Finnish. Nazis had really nothing against us Finns and on the other hand United States kept supplying Soviet Union while they wer
90 aloges : The source you gave says nothing of the kind.
91 Ken777 : There was a pretty good comment today by a talking head: Obama played Prevent Defense. How many games have you seen lost when the leader played preve
92 Mir : He has. How many terrorist leaders have we gotten rid of thanks to increased drone strikes? That's Obama's doing. Unless you're a woman, I'm not sure
93 SmittyOne : I will give them credit that they didn't make any ad hominem attacks as far as I can tell. The next two debates may get a bit less civil as the elect
94 BMI727 : Cut defense, so we can all become world leaders in engineering lattes and burritos. No we don't. We assume and expect excellence, and that's what sho
95 pvjin : Yeah sure, but Stalin would have done that even if he couldn't have gotten any real benefit from that. I am of course glad that Nazis lost the war bu
96 Aesma : The left has nothing to do, the nuts on the right do all the work. Sorry but I wasn't born in 1945. My parents weren't born either. The world today i
97 Ken777 : Defense is going to be cut, but it will be done rationally, just like when General Powell worked with President Clinton. I've lost count of how many
98 casinterest : Not sure what your definition of rich is, but 250 K puts you in the top 1.5% f households (single or married in the US.). I consider that rich. And w
99 SmittyOne : It is kind of disgusting who we have to be 'friends' with from time to time. Which actually leads nicely back to politics and the debate!
100 AirframeAS : 4 total, IIRC. Two more Presidental debates and 1 VP debate. There are a lot of issues to be covered in debates. It is impossible to cover everything
101 dallasnewark : Wow, Romney just wiped the floor with Obama. I didn't expect it to be that one sided. That was as bad as Reagan vs Carter, a total 1st round TKO by Ro
102 Post contains links aloges : Good news, everyone! Big Bird lives on, no matter who is elected: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GByZ0TtBEkM
103 pvjin : No, not those who actually get some real benefit from economics politics of Romney, mainly rich and other better than average doing people. However t
104 AirframeAS : Obama is no better......at all. But then again, what we do here is not your concern. You have no say.
105 BMI727 : The Democratic economic plan is a mishmash of strategies that have failed in the past: 1. Economic stimulus: the New Deal failed during the Great Dep
106 pvjin : Modern day worldwid economical crisis are way too big to be solved that easily, Romney wouldn't have done any better. "Defense", hah. Last time US so
107 Post contains images Ken777 : Odd that as I have read bout doctors discouraging their kids from going into medicine. And it's not so much related to ObamaCare, but in the changing
108 L-188 : Guys can we knock off fighting about the end of the second world war please? Not really relevant to the discussion IMHO. What is relevent is Al Gore b
109 fxramper : Was awesome seeing Obama fumble and Romney kill him in the debates. A couple more of these and we might see a Mormon as POTUS.
110 Post contains images BMI727 : So you could spend a ton of money and not solve the problem, or you could not spend a ton of money and not solve the problem. Seems like an easy deci
111 aloges : Forgive me for asking, but why is that relevant?
112 SmittyOne : I think your assessment is a little simplistic: - 1950s: US troops defended South Korea as part of a UN effort when it was attacked by North Korea an
113 lewis : Romney had a better presence during the debate and that is a fact. He spoke clearly and didn't stall as much as Obama when speaking. I do not agree wi
114 Aaron747 : If you mean presence as a smarmy snake oil salesman, then sure. Oh and that other guy he was with too.
115 lewis : I mean that he had better posture and he spoke clearly without losing his line of thought and expression. He did tick a lot of boxes as far as "Presi
116 flyguy89 : One of the more substantive issues I noticed in the debate as well was that Obama was trying to make a lot of points as if he was candidate Obama inst
117 Aesma : What countries ? In fact communism had a strong influence in France (the country where it was born) and communists have been in parliament non stop s
118 DeltaMD90 : If a big push was made to make our military more efficient, we could cut a ton of spending, trust me, it makes me cringe seeing some of the waste. I'm
119 Mir : What goes on in the most influential country in the world is everyone's concern. With an unfriendly House and a non-filibuster-proof Senate? You can
120 BMI727 : You're talking about a place with a 75% top tax rate and a VAT on top of that. For free healthcare, that's pretty damn expensive. Such tax rates are
121 flymia : Three Harvard Degrees. They sure are dumb. You can call them boring and dull but dumb is one thing these men are not. You really think he will hurt t
122 DeltaMD90 : Yeah I never understood this. Maybe they are not as shiny as a gem as other politicians, but they still are incredibly smart, successful men. I just
123 pu : Uhm, the West did let the USSR do whatever it wanted for 50 years. The Poles were the first to fight the Germans and punched above their weight for t
124 Post contains links NAV20 : Aesma, I think I see the problem; it's the age gap. You give your age as 26/35. Nothing wrong with that, but it means that you probably weren't aroun
125 flyguy89 : Spin it anyway you'd like, and it's unfortunate how events transpired, but it was ultimately Stalin who continued to occupy Poland and held sham elec
126 pvjin : Whatever, now our politicians have already sold our independence to European Union and are destroying our welfare society anyway. [ quote=flyguy89,re
127 Post contains images Superfly : It was kind of cute to see Obama completely exposed without the protection and coddling from the fawning media that he is accustomed to. No teleprompt
128 SmittyOne : Absolutely there have been plenty of cases where US involvement was negative and/or misguided. My point was simply that reality was a bit more compli
129 luckyone : It should also be noted that the US government makes more money of a gallon of gasoline than the oil companies. Yet it still loves to scapegoat the b
130 SmittyOne : I was surprised (pleasantly) by Romney's litmus test on whether something was worth borrowing from China to pay for. That took some stones on his par
131 FlyPNS1 : Basic airport security and intelligence could have EASILY prevented 9/11. You didn't need to spend hundreds of billions creating the department of ho
132 Post contains images Superfly : Absolutely. If Big Bird can't stand on his own two feet without borrowing money from China, then it's time to skin 'em, dip him some batter and fry '
133 mt99 : Name something that is clearly "not borrowed from China"? How do you make the distinction? Does PBS money come from a different place than money for
134 L-188 : Superfly: I'm not so sure Jim Is going to be so welcomed by the mcneil-audience after this debate
135 SmittyOne : Good point, I think the idea is that we eventually pay our bills without borrowing money from China at all...live within our means by slashing anythi
136 pu : I understand your point, but if the USA wants to justify foreign interventions with the "we're the world's policeman" mantra then it justifiably take
137 mt99 : Exactly. That why "Big Bird get money from China" is just plain stupid. Is being able to pay our bills without borrowing money (from China or another
138 SmittyOne : I for one DO NOT want to justify interventions as the world's policeman. I want to justify interventions as the prerogative of a nation state pursuin
139 Aesma : The way the police acts should also be improved. Maybe why the Syrian rebels don't want US intervention ? The allies did far more damage in France th
140 pu : If more Americans would adopt your explanation I feel there would be much less disagreement with others. Its the altruistic motivations ascribed to A
141 Superfly : Every car I've owned I paid cash for it. Mitt Romney's point was that the US can't continue to spend money on these nice, lofty programs when we're a
142 casinterest : Not 8 times, he has been spending what was required under law and to expcape the recession we were in. Romney has already backed of of this tax plan.
143 Superfly : Key word; "reasonable". Does $16 TRILLION sound "reasonable" to you?
144 NAV20 : I think the answer to that is that if there's any risk that you may be involved in a war, you should prepare yourself so that you can win it, Aesma.
145 casinterest : No it isn't reasonable, but did it sound reasonable in 2001 and 2003 to cut taxes when we hadn't really made a dent in the existing debt? .... Did it
146 DeltaMD90 : You can't justify today's actions based off the mistakes of the past. You should have said and ended it! The blame game is played way too much to jus
147 Superfly : Government spending was seriously flawed then as well. Quit trying to turn this in to a Bush vs. Obama thread. I'm not defending Bush at all. You can
148 SmittyOne : Agreed, the idea that altruism prevails at the national level is asinine! The problem with being young is that anything bad that happens is perceived
149 casinterest : Was going to try and explain to you, but no, I will just repost from my post since neither of you read it. [Edited 2012-10-05 09:50:20]
150 Post contains images tugger : No, it does not sound "reasonable". But he said "reasonable debt" and there are a lot of elements that are not that simple. Is a debt that people PAY
151 pu : Fine, I agree with you. I think this plays in the Presidential debates bcause Romney I suspect will argue your point that America is a great benefit
152 Superfly : Anyway you slice it, government needs to cut spending PERIOD! Tax increase or not, the spending needs to be reigned in. That is true but so far Romney
153 DeltaMD90 : I think the biggest problem is too many Americans try and see the world from their viewpoint. From an Egyptian or Libyan, they have different values,
154 FlyPNS1 : If he's not willing to talk about it now, he certainly won't do it in the next four years for fear of not getting re-elected. Romney will learn one h
155 tugger : Well, the "preoccupied" problem that the Republican's have is that they want to cut taxes. And I do not think they can or should be doing that at thi
156 BMI727 : Defense against the Soviet threat, not terrorism. Now with the end of the Cold War, we need not spend as much on that type of preparation but a lot o
157 tugger : Serving my family and community..... I have no idea what else one would a seek a career in. Tugg
158 Post contains images Superfly : Sounds like it's best to be Romney's friend and Obama's enemy. If I'm Romney's friend, he'll help make me get rich. If I'm Obama's enemy, he'll bow do
159 BMI727 : Well that's kinda pointless and no fun at all.
160 Post contains images tugger : Actually, you are as wrong as you could possibly be. (But I am pretty sure you are just "funnin' me", so no worries ) Tugg
161 BMI727 : Not really. It's all about the Benjamins for me.
162 Post contains images SmittyOne : BMI, I swear to hell you'd better blow a good portion of that cash on fast cars, loose women and good whiskey. If you spend all of your free time cou
163 BMI727 : If I won the lottery I'd buy a nice (used) car and then drive it around to several financial planners. After that...
164 Post contains links and images SmittyOne : A RR Ghost? LOL I actually saw one of those tonight on the way back from dinner in my Honda Civic (which cost less than the Ghost's engine I'm sure).
165 zckls04 : Yeah, he's talking about taking away "moving costs" as a tax deduction when you move your business. Obama wants to remove that deduction if you move
166 bmacleod : Anyone thinking Romney's headed for victory after his debate win should remember Senator John Kerry's success in his first debate with President Georg
167 SmittyOne : Makes sense, thanks. Unfortunately for Obama his lack of precision made it look like he was being taken to school about business by Romney!
168 BMI727 : Much to bloated and geriatric for me. If I were to buy a car from that platform it would be an Alpina B7, but really, anything more than two seats is
169 tugger : Yeah... you are really just proving your age (from your profile) with this statement. Juvenile. You'll change or you will just be a worthless person.
170 bjorn14 : That's like asking a high school QB to win the Super Bowl for you. BTW, CNN's Candy Crowley has an undisclosed illness and will not be the mod for th
171 BMI727 : I am always afraid of changing that part of me. It is though. There is no honor in being average and no virtue in just being good enough. Without tha
172 Post contains images aloges : Just out of interest, is anyone paying even the smallest amount of attention to the Senate and House elections? You know, those people who actually le
173 AirframeAS : Not me. Gave up on that years ago. Those elections are more like slugfests than discussing actual issues.
174 cws818 : That is not true. Has he bowed down to, apologized to, fought wars for, or installed governments for, say, Mitch McConnell?
175 cws818 : ???????? Where did you hear that?
176 Superfly : It will also be at a lower elevation which should help Obama. II'm just going by Al Gore's analysis of Obama's poor debate performance) That's right.
177 Post contains links aloges : Wait a second... are you actually complaining because he supported the forces who toppled GADDAFI because "They're not our friends"?! If ever there w
178 SmittyOne : This pissed me off. I don't agree with deliberately provoking religious people, but a video mocking Islam is perfectly acceptable free speech. The Pr
179 pvjin : At least he hasn't totally ruined any country like George W Bush did with Iraq. Also, I didn't know that Gaddafi was good friend of the US? Obama has
180 SmittyOne : I don't...that message would be to the American people and all of those who DO understand it. We have to reaffirm what we believe in to ourselves and
181 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : Back to the subject of the debates, I saw a couple of things worth sharing. First of all, it appears that 'Eastwooding' has reached the mainstream, as
182 aloges : Umm... anybody else? Bueller? Bowler? Boiler? OK, another "first", but that doesn't say a lot about her politics. Which I find more important in a ca
183 DeltaMD90 : Do you understand the joke? He's talking about Elizabeth Warren, a woman running for Senate who may or may not be 1/16th Cherokee. She identified her
184 bjorn14 : Fly, I think you forgot your /sarc tag. There is absolutely no proof that Elizabeth "Lieawatha/Fauxchahontas/No Law License" Warren has a drop of Che
185 aloges : I didn't, I had taken the comment seriously... should have known better, I suppose.
186 Post contains images bmacleod : At least he (Obama) didn't look at his watch. [Edited 2012-10-07 08:44:57]
187 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : Apparently some Obama supporters felt the president was at a disadvantage without usage of his teleprompter in last week’s debate. (Well…truth be
188 Ken777 : He didn't have his teleprompter when he debated McCain and did pretty well. The big question: Did he pull a "W" in the first debate? Just as interest
189 Superfly : He didn't have a record to run on either. This time around, he should have been boasting about all of what he accomplished in the last four years.
190 Post contains images luckyone : Many said the same thing about Cheny v. Edwards in 2004, and that ended in the woodshed for John Edwards. Now it makes sense!!!
191 Ken777 : So he starts with stopping the spiral into a real depression. The GOP really needs to minimize the horrors of that time, but it was real. Health care
192 Post contains links Dreadnought : Fair enough - although the recession ended towards the end of 2009 - all the stimulus spending after that was simply wasted money. Romney FINALLY mad
193 casinterest : The recession ended. That's kind of like saying my hairline stopped receding. Doesn't mean I got any hair back. Communism is not part of the US const
194 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : There is nothing strictly speaking in the Constitution that prevents a town, county or state or state from establishing a communistic society (I'm ta
195 casinterest : So you propose what? Playing musical chairs with the tax code as Romney is doing. All he plans to do is shift the taxes to the middle class by closin
196 Dreadnought : Politicians are in a business where they always feel that the people want them to "do something". Sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing. Eco
197 casinterest : On this I actually agree. But I would rather have Obama's Tax increase on the wealthy, than Romney's redistribution mumble jumble, that has not even
198 BMI727 : Wait a minute. All around I hear from liberals about how little the wealthy pay in taxes and all the loopholes only they can use. But now I hear that
199 flyguy89 : I think it's perfectly fine to have disagreements over tax policy, but to be truly objective, you have to consider both sides of the coin. I think it
200 casinterest : IF you look at the thread on Net vs Gross you will see the deductions that matter for the middle and lower class. The only one I left out that has a
201 flyguy89 : Romney has already said though that deductions for the upper income bracket would be the ones cut in order to keep those deductions preferential to t
202 Ken777 : Wasted money? We still hose infrastructure investments all over Tulsa. Maybe you live somewhere with a governor who didn't want the money, but it has
203 Dreadnought : Only 7% of the Stimulus bill was dedicated towards infrastructure. On this I understand your position, although I disagree with it vehemently. This i
204 flyguy89 : Then I guess the Founding Fathers didn't believe in One Nation Under God as they were the ones who actually incorporated federalism into the Constitu
205 casinterest : But this doesn't Workout. Romney has proposed a 5 trillion dollar cut in the budget by lopping 20% off of everyones marginal tax rates. This is fact.
206 flyguy89 : You're acting as if these are the only deductions. The current tax code is littered with literally dozens and dozens of deductions, only a handful of
207 Post contains links casinterest : They aren't the only one , but they are the biggest. Especially with Romney wanting to Eliminate the Estate taxes for estates over 1.5 million. But h
208 flyguy89 : They're the biggest, but for every mortgage deduction or charitable deduction credit, there are at least 15-20 others preferential only to the upper
209 casinterest : Not really The bubble didn't get going till the tax cuts freed up quite a bit of income to make it worthwhile. Remember, you yourself mentioned the D
210 Dreadnought : For all tiers, not just the rich? Just want to be clear...
211 casinterest : Yes, but I can wait it out a bit, and it can be a tiered reimplemntation as the economy gets better. I think those on the top can be said to always b
212 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : Looks to me like taking them back to Bush I rates would increase taxes on everyone EXCEPT the wealthy.
213 Ken777 : I simply do not believe that Romney is going to increase the tax for himself and his friends by $5 Trillion. It will be a hit on the poor and middle
214 flyguy89 : Yes, really. Real estate markets were already in a bubble before the Bush tax cuts were even made, there's absolutely no evidence that the additional
215 cws818 : President Bush did the same with King Abdullah.
216 casinterest : You looking at the same graph you posted? Go look at the reports for Las Vegas, Arizona , Stockton and Florida. I lived and watched many of the peopl
217 Dreadnought : Yep. Average rate for $500K income during Bush I was just under 30%, just as it is now. It popped up to about 33% in the mid 90s.
218 flyguy89 : In certain markets yes, in others no. Again, there were concerns over the real estate bubble years before the tax cuts were implemented. Were you und
219 Superfly : You've got to do better than that. George W Bush was a HORRIBLE President, yet you and many other Obama supporters constantly compare Obama to George
220 Post contains links casinterest : Oki dokey. Apparently you don't see that spike in 1992 from the 1990 "Read My Lips" blowback. But you can pretend that line wasn't bush's fault since
221 Post contains images EA CO AS : Hogwash. He also wants to cut unnecessary spending.
222 casinterest : By raising the military Budget by 2 trillion. He will offset it by cutting PBS. That's some fine budget balancing there.
223 Dreadnought : I assumed that those were in 1993 after Clinton came in, but upon further study, you are correct.
224 Post contains links flyguy89 : So you think the tax cuts created the subprime crisis? Your premise doesn't even make sense as we've had massive tax cuts before without a real estat
225 Post contains links casinterest : In this case, the stock market had collapsed already, so folks were not primed to go back to stocks, and loans got cheap, very cheap. Especially when
226 cws818 : I am not making a value judgment. I am saying that both did the same thing. I don't have "to do better than that" because I am merely stating a fact.
227 flyguy89 : Which the Bush tax cuts didn't do. So you're arguing that because people had more money in their pockets and may have decided to spend that on risky
228 casinterest : If you have more money to spend and loans are cheap, you will pay more for a house under demand. Yes they did if you look at percentage growth. They
229 flyguy89 : Cheap logic IMO, there have been much more significant tax cuts previously without the result you're alleging. Additionally, would you blame an emplo
230 superfly : That isn't saying much of anything. We all know that George W Bush was a horrible President. Yet people who STILL support Obama, their best defense i
231 pu : I too demand the right to say not much of anything. How's this: The VP debate tonight better damn well be worth staying up for in terms of saying not
232 cws818 : Facts don't have to be profound.
233 Ken777 : After the housing crisis I think a lot of people buying these days are looking for a logical house to build. Close to work, good schools, etc. Grabbi
234 Post contains images superfly : Can't make heads or tails of what you two are trying to say. Whatever. He is the boss and therefore has to take the responsibility for his administra
235 casinterest : But it was a perfect storm, and in truth interest rates kept falling to what at the time were historic lows, and the house flipping went on and on. t
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