WrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1684 times:
From the article "Included in the list are several names that perpetually appear on "Hall of Fame Snubs" lists, including Deep Purple, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts, Heart and Rush."
They don't need to look any further than the 4 greats listed above, IMO.
vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 8202 posts, RR: 28 Reply 3, posted (7 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1670 times:
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Quoting Superfly (Reply 2): So how does this work? Do they all get in or is it a vote?
It's a vote. Basically, a bunch of BS, if you look at who has gotten in and who has not.
Rush doesn't care, I don't care, and really, I hope no one does. One look at who has been inducted and who hasn't should be enough to see that it doesn't matter at all.
With that said, congrats to Rush and the others nominated.
"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5286 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1642 times:
Not that I'm a fan (my mum is) the most glaring omission is Cliff Richard (and The Shadows), the guy has been around for 50 years, has had a number 1 hits in pretty much every decade since he started, and has spent over 22 years in the UK charts alone, he pretty much single handedly started rock and roll in the UK and Europe, before Cliff there was nothing after Cliff there was everything, without him The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Kinks and the whole British rock invasion wouldn't have happened. A far more significant act that Rush, Joan Jett, Heart and Deep Purple put together.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38496 posts, RR: 80 Reply 7, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1631 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6): the most glaring omission is Cliff Richard
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6): A far more significant act that Rush, Joan Jett, Heart and Deep Purple put together.
My sides is about to explode over that one!
I needed a good laught!
No disrespect to Cliff Richards. I do love his song; 'We Don't Talk Anymore'. I brings back fond memories of 1st grade.
Your attempt to put him on the same pedestal as Rush, Joan Jett, Heart and Deep Purple has got to be the funniest post I've ever!
If you're gauging by hits in every decade, then the group Chicago needs to on the list. They are phenomenal and have had hits consistently since the late 1960s - not just 1 hit per decade like Cliff Richards.
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 8, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1617 times:
Once again, the New York Dolls are snubbed. If it wasn't for the New York Dolls, you wouldn't have The Ramones, R.E.M., the Sex Pistols, Talking Heads, the Pretenders, and Blondie. They were also a bit of an influence on Aerosmith as well. That's just the tip of the iceberg, as they also influenced a lot of the "hair bands" of the 1980s as well. They were the act that got the NYC rock music scene of the 1970s started. I guess being snubbed by the RRHoF is David Johansen's penance for inflicting the world with his Buster Poindexter persona.....
Watch Rush miss the cut and Kraftwerk gets in......
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38496 posts, RR: 80 Reply 9, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1616 times:
Quoting srbmod (Reply 8): Once again, the New York Dolls are snubbed.
For good reason.
Quoting srbmod (Reply 8): If it wasn't for the New York Dolls, you wouldn't have The Ramones, R.E.M., the Sex Pistols
Just kill me already!
Those bands are responsible for the wimpy, whiny emo bands of today which is the shame of 'rock' music.
Punk/alternative should be buried once & for all.
vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 8202 posts, RR: 28 Reply 10, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1603 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 5): In your opinion who shouldn't be there?
It's not so much who shouldn't be there (I don't consider myself in a position to judge that), but who got in before who.
Like, Madonna and Grandmaster Flash got in before Metallica, Jeff Beck, The Stooges, Alice Cooper, etc...
And of course, the bands that have been ignored, like Rush, Deep Purple, etc.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 9): Those bands are responsible for the wimpy, whiny emo bands of today which is the shame of 'rock' music.
Punk/alternative should be buried once & for all.
Ah come on 'Fly. Love or hate it, you can't deny such music was huge and had a large influence.
I mean, hell, if it was up to me, I'd erase '80s hair-metal....
"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1592 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 9): Just kill me already!
Those bands are responsible for the wimpy, whiny emo bands of today which is the shame of 'rock' music.
Punk/alternative should be buried once & for all.
No, bands like Green Day and No Doubt are responsible....... Old school punk is great; what passes for punk these days is an insult. The only time you see the Clash and Broadway in the same sentence, it's about the 1991 box, not some musical.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10): I mean, hell, if it was up to me, I'd erase '80s hair-metal....
My ban finger is a bit itchy right about now....... You're talking about the pop music of my youth, as bands like Poison, Motley Crue and Def Leppard were constantly on the Top 40 charts in the late 1980s.
vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 8202 posts, RR: 28 Reply 12, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1565 times:
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Quoting srbmod (Reply 11): You're talking about the pop music of my youth, as bands like Poison, Motley Crue and Def Leppard were constantly on the Top 40 charts in the late 1980s.
I'm terribly sorry!
I don't hate all hair-metal. Actually I like a number of songs. But overall, I generally can't stand the production style and sound, the voices, etc....
Just to give an example, I absolutely LOVE the song "Little Fighter" by White Lion.
Quoting srbmod (Reply 11): No, bands like Green Day and No Doubt are responsible.......
See, now you're talking about the music of MY youth! Though I'm not a huge Green Day or No Doubt fan. But the '90s is my musical birth period.
Quoting srbmod (Reply 11): Old school punk is great; what passes for punk these days is an insult. The only time you see the Clash and Broadway in the same sentence, it's about the 1991 box, not some musical.
Ahhh, now you're going to get me into the whole "labeling genres" debate. If what passes for punk is an insult, then don't call it punk! Who cares, anyway?
Hell, my favorite genre overall is probably metal, and metal is chock full of people who like to categorize, down to minutiae that I wouldn't even consider. I just don't get it, have never gotten it, and will never get it. Genres are useful for categorizing music in a store.....that's about it.
"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
TheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 1697 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1562 times:
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 3): Rush doesn't care, I don't care, and really, I hope no one does. One look at who has been inducted and who hasn't should be enough to see that it doesn't matter at all.
With that said, congrats to Rush and the others nominated.
100% agree.
See ya in San diego RUSH Nov 21...Whoooooo hooooo.
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5286 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1553 times:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 7): Your attempt to put him on the same pedestal as Rush, Joan Jett, Heart and Deep Purple has got to be the funniest post I've ever!
Hell yes without Cliff (and The Shadows) you wouldn't have had the British rock invasion and all music that flowed from it, I'm also pretty sure his 300 million records sales eclipse the total sales of Rush, Joan Jett, Heart and Deep Purple combined. I don't like Cliff I never have but as someone who basically started everything from the UK and European side of things his omission is glaring, he should have been inducted in the first couple of batches.
So I'd put him on a pedestal far above a the 4 acts you mentioned, he's up there with Elvis and The Beatles.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38496 posts, RR: 80 Reply 15, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1551 times:
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10): Ah come on 'Fly. Love or hate it, you can't deny such music was huge and had a large influence.
Punk is about as influential as AIDS and 9/11.
It may have made an impact but doesn't mean it deserves an award.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 10): I mean, hell, if it was up to me, I'd erase '80s hair-metal....
Shame on you!
Quoting srbmod (Reply 11): You're talking about the pop music of my youth, as bands like Poison, Motley Crue and Def Leppard were constantly on the Top 40 charts in the late 1980s.
Not only that, they capture the pure essence of rock; sex, drugs, alcohol, money, sex and more sex. Also really talented shredding guitarist and an occasional kicka$$ drummer and/or operatic vocalist. Punk is just rebellion without the sex, talent or money.
Hair metal Gods I'm partial to is Whitesnake, Ratt, Dokken, Motley Crue, Night Ranger as well as 80s Kiss, Vinnie Vincent and Heart.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 12): See, now you're talking about the music of MY youth! Though I'm not a huge Green Day or No Doubt fan. But the '90s is my musical birth period.
Yes but you are wise enough to reach back to the previous decade for the good stuff.
vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 8202 posts, RR: 28 Reply 19, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1542 times:
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Quoting Superfly (Reply 15): Not only that, they capture the pure essence of rock; sex, drugs, alcohol, money, sex and more sex.
Please! Hair metal in no way captures the pure essence of rock. It's the essence of rock put through a ridiculous producer's sheen, and coated in spandex, eyeliner, and hairspray.
For the essence of rock, I look toward ACDC, 70s Aerosmith, the Stones, the Who, Zeppelin, Van Halen, etc. Nothing beats guitar (or two), bass, drums, and some nice slightly hoarse vocals. No studio sheen required. I mean hell, don't get me started on the completely fake drum sounds on 80s metal songs. Whoever decided to start layering drum samples over acoustic drums needs to be shot. Rock and roll has to have that slight looseness in there.
Nothing against 80s metal (there's no whole genre of music I hate) - like I said, I like some of the songs. But geez, I'd never call that the essence of rock! Some great party anthems and arena rockers, sure.
Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 13): See ya in San diego RUSH Nov 21...Whoooooo hooooo.
I'll be seeing them in Hollywood and Anaheim.
EDIT: forgot to respond to this:
Quoting Superfly (Reply 15): Punk is about as influential as AIDS and 9/11.
So, it's as influential as two EXTREMELY influential things?
[Edited 2012-10-04 22:35:25]
"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38496 posts, RR: 80 Reply 20, posted (7 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1535 times:
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 19): It's the essence of rock put through a ridiculous producer's sheen, and coated in spandex, eyeliner, and hairspray.
You mean over-the-top escapism? An element of fantasy is always good too to escape it all and get lost in the a world of decadence.
This video sums it all up. This captures everything that's awesome about rock.
And who was the band that started guitar rock in the UK, it was Cliff and the Shadows, two guitars, bass and drums they kicked it all off. So the fact that they haven't been inducted into the hall of fame makes it all a bit of a pharse.
Hank Marvin has been sited as an influence on the following Eric Clapton, David Gilmour, Tony Iommi, Mark Knopfler, Neil Young, Steve Clark and Carlos Santana.
seb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9810 posts, RR: 17 Reply 22, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1482 times:
Yes, I like Lady Gaga and Adele and Pink, but there is something to be said for hair bands. They can play instruments. They are singers. Also, horrid as REO Speedwagon's lead singer is, at least he has talent. As opposed to One Direction.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38496 posts, RR: 80 Reply 24, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1468 times:
Quoting seb146 (Reply 22): horrid as REO Speedwagon's lead singer
"Horrid" in what way?
He is an amazing singer, piano player and guitar player.
Quoting seb146 (Reply 23): But not Tawney Kitane dancing in a white flowing dress on two Jaguars? Even I thought that was sexy.
Yes that was HOT!
Rock music needs to get back to this level of talent and showmanship. Today they just whine, throw temper tantrums and make big political statements.
Like we really care about how much toilet tissue Sheryl Crow uses.
vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 8202 posts, RR: 28 Reply 25, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1477 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 21): And who was the band that started guitar rock in the UK, it was Cliff and the Shadows, two guitars, bass and drums they kicked it all off. So the fact that they haven't been inducted into the hall of fame makes it all a bit of a pharse.
I'm not saying yes or no to that. I'm not familiar enough with Cliff and the Shadows to comment.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 20): You mean over-the-top escapism? An element of fantasy is always good too to escape it all and get lost in the a world of decadence.
An element of fantasy pretty much puts it in the realm of metal, which is a different story than rock. Again, not always, but quite often.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 20): This video sums it all up. This captures everything that's awesome about rock.
Yeah, it pretty much captures everything I hate about that period (although that song is by no means one of the worst offenders; it's not a terrible song). Let me list stuff that bugs me:
1.) No looseness - everything is too polished, sound-wise.
2.) No groove - sorry, but in most of those '80s hair-metal songs, there's not much of a groove. Indeed, the drums and bass are relegated to pumping out 8th notes, but they don't even do that with any feel. May as well get a drum machine.
3.) Too much focus on guitar/vocals - yes, they are generally the stars of any band. But great rock'n'roll encompasses great interplay between all the instruments and the voice. This follows from #2, and is sorely lacking. If they only show closeups of the drummer when he hits a cymbal or flips a stick, you know there's not much going on there.
4.) Drum Sounds - mentioned this before, but I've NEVER heard a real drum kit that sounds anything like that. That in itself isn't necessarily bad, but it's such a large and compressed sound, that there's no room for dynamics or subtlety.
5.) Ridiculous amounts of reverb - ties in with the overall sound; leaves no room for dynamics or subtlety.
I'm sure there's more, but as I recall, this thread was once about Rush.
"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38496 posts, RR: 80 Reply 26, posted (7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1468 times:
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 25): 1.) No looseness - everything is too polished, sound-wise.
That's mainly why I like it. Whitesnake is a sophisticated metal band. The orchestrations and the final polish is something I'd expect with Burt Bacharach, Steely Dan and other artist that are meticulous about the final output of their sound.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 25): the drums and bass are relegated to pumping out 8th notes, but they don't even do that with any feel. May as well get a drum machine.
That wouldn't work so well. Notice how this bass player often throws his bass in the air to show off his large erect package. This is to get the ladies in the audience wet and excited to bring more ladies backstage.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 25): I've NEVER heard a real drum kit that sounds anything like that.
That's the point. It's supposed to scare your with a rhythmic assault and sound that doesn't exist in the real world.
You may appreciate the guitar layers and diminished chords towards the end of the song.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 25): I'm sure there's more, but as I recall, this thread was once about Rush.
True. However a lot of your critiques of Whitesnake is the same many Rush fans have of the Hold Your Fire album.
I like the album but a lot of fans aren't too thrilled with the polished production of that album.
TheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 1697 posts, RR: 4 Reply 27, posted (7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1455 times:
My fave Rush Album is Permanet Waves, (I know all the songs on the guitar), but a close second is Power windows, luckily they will perform a lot of PW songs on the San Diego Concert....
If the RRHF has Madonna on its ranks, its a Joke, she doesnt even make RR for freaking Sakes...!!!
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38496 posts, RR: 80 Reply 29, posted (7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1410 times:
Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 27): My fave Rush Album is Permanet Waves, (I know all the songs on the guitar), but a close second is Power windows, luckily they will perform a lot of PW songs on the San Diego Concert....
Power Windows was the album that pulled me in as a fan when it came out.
Is their set list already confirmed?
slider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6518 posts, RR: 37 Reply 30, posted (7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1328 times:
Ah, time for the oft-repeated rant against the idiotic "Rock and Roll" Hall of Fame...with emphasis on the quoted rock and roll, since the place has become so bastardized over the years.
Jann Wenner is a moron who wields his power over this institution farcically, arbitrarily and capriciously.
In fact, the place is a joke. It’s just a punchline now. Makes for a nice tourist trap and a glorified Hard Rock with memorabilia and many some interesting bylines on music itself, but it’s a disgusting farce.
If you want to have a so-called Rock Hall, and leave out KISS, Yes, Chicago, Peter Frampton, Rush, Steve Miller Band, Dire Straits, Mark Knopfler, Journey, Iron Maiden, The Cure, Grank Funk Railroad, the Doobie Brothers, John Mayall, Johnny Winter, Judas Priest, Styx, Ted Nugent, Deep Purple, Boston, ELP, Jethro Tull, REO Speedwagon, The Cars, Three Dog night, Mitch Ryder, Hall and Oates and on and on and on…., well, then it’s not even worth the brick and mortar it was built with. Those are just off the top of my head!!
And then you induct people who’ve NO business being there and it makes this argument just silly.
Wenner is an idiot.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6): the most glaring omission is Cliff Richard
LMAO!! Of course, Rik from The Young Ones would agree with you but that might be it, haha....
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 5286 posts, RR: 3 Reply 31, posted (7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1324 times:
Quoting slider (Reply 30):
LMAO!! Of course, Rik from The Young Ones would agree with you but that might be it, haha....
Thing is you are looking at Cliff from a US perspective, he was never popular in the US, but the guy has sold nearly 300 million records, how many others in the Hall of Fame has some more, only 10-15 acts, all of which have been popular in the US. And I'll say it again, without Cliff kicking it off in the UK modern music as we know it would be different.
slider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6518 posts, RR: 37 Reply 32, posted (7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1322 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31): Thing is you are looking at Cliff from a US perspective, he was never popular in the US, but the guy has sold nearly 300 million records, how many others in the Hall of Fame has some more, only 10-15 acts, all of which have been popular in the US. And I'll say it again, without Cliff kicking it off in the UK modern music as we know it would be different.
I was making a joke. Do you remember the BBC show, The Young Ones?
brilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 3168 posts, RR: 1 Reply 35, posted (7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1265 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 5): In your opinion who shouldn't be there?
Madonna and Michael Jackson for two...
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 12):
Quoting srbmod (Reply 11):
No, bands like Green Day and No Doubt are responsible.......
See, now you're talking about the music of MY youth! Though I'm not a huge Green Day or No Doubt fan. But the '90s is my musical birth period.
Quoting srbmod (Reply 11):
Old school punk is great; what passes for punk these days is an insult. The only time you see the Clash and Broadway in the same sentence, it's about the 1991 box, not some musical.
Ahhh, now you're going to get me into the whole "labeling genres" debate. If what passes for punk is an insult, then don't call it punk! Who cares, anyway?
Hell, my favorite genre overall is probably metal, and metal is chock full of people who like to categorize, down to minutiae that I wouldn't even consider. I just don't get it, have never gotten it, and will never get it. Genres are useful for categorizing music in a store.....that's about it.
Quoting Superfly (Reply 24): Today they just whine, throw temper tantrums and make big political statements.
Like we really care about how much toilet tissue Sheryl Crow uses.
Have you heard the song Hurt, a collaboration with Nine Inch Nails?
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31): Thing is you are looking at Cliff from a US perspective, he was never popular in the US, but the guy has sold nearly 300 million records, how many others in the Hall of Fame has some more, only 10-15 acts, all of which have been popular in the US. And I'll say it again, without Cliff kicking it off in the UK modern music as we know it would be different.
Yeah, and don't forget those power house of rock bands from the U.K.; Wham, Culture Club, and the Spice Girls.
All kidding aside, Rush being in the R & R Hall of shame is really a minor achievement in their long career. I have for a long while believe that they don't need to be in this so called shrine, don't for the world see why they would care. It would be fitting if they snubbed the Induction ceremony if they are actually voted in.
Quoting brilondon (Reply 35): It would be fitting if they snubbed the Induction ceremony if they are actually voted in.
Well said.
Quoting brilondon (Reply 35): Wham, Culture Club, and the Spice Girls.
I actually like those bands - Wham and Culture Club actually consist of good musicians. It's just too bad that the era in which they were famous, looks and appearance was noticed more than their musical talent. That was just the way things were in the 1980s.
Although I like those bands, I wouldn't put them in any Hall of Fame. Of that era, I would pick Duran Duran.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31): Thing is you are looking at Cliff from a US perspective, he was never popular in the US
Well rock originated in the United States after-all. This Hall of Fame IS in Cleveland which is in the United States. So of course it's going to be from a US perspective. Not saying Cliff Richard shouldn't be in the H.O.F. either.
NASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3081 posts, RR: 5 Reply 39, posted (7 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1113 times:
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 38): That's not a collaboration. It's a cover.
"Hurt" was originally released on The Downward Spiral, a Nine Inch Nails album. Johnny Cash covered it on one of his American albums.
Downward Spiral was released back in 1993/1994. I think Johnny Cash's cover of it was probably his last song he did before he died. He does change the lyrics from "Crown of Shit" to "Crown of Thorns". I almost have to say I like the Johnny Cash version better too.
Its kind of amazing with all the rock bands that did covers of Johnny Cash songs over the years that Johnny Cash is covering a rock and roll song.
Speaking of covers and back on the subject of Rush. You don't hear too many Rush covers out there. Dream Theater does some live and there were a couple Rush Tribute albums made with various musicians getting together. Rush music is too complex for most bands, but I am still surprised that no one real big has done a cover of their music that would get rock radio airplay.
superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 38496 posts, RR: 80 Reply 40, posted (7 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1111 times:
Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 39): I am still surprised that no one real big has done a cover of their music that would get rock radio airplay.
Actually there has been one tribute album. It didn't go over so well and the artist that participated are probably happy that many are unaware that project. Many of the washed up 80s hair metal guys took a break from their jobs at the auto detailing shop and make a Rush tribute album in 2005.
Keep in mind, you're going to have to have a sense of humor while listening. Vikkyvik will probably hate it.
You have Kip Winger, Sebasian Bach of Skid Row, Randy Jackson of Zebra and Jani Lane of Warrant doing a Rush tribute album. What could POSSIBLY go wrong?
Here are some samples.
On another note, some comments from Alex Lifeson pretty well expressing their views on the nomination:
"I'm really happy for the Rush fans who feel that it is really important, and I hope we're inducted for their sake," guitarist Alex Lifeson said by phone from a tour stop in Philadelphia. The band plays Saturday in Newark. "Personally it never really mattered to me, but at the same time it's nice to be nominated."
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You're talking about the pop music of my youth, as bands like Poison, Motley Crue and Def Leppard were constantly on the Top 40 charts in the late 1980s.
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It must be made by the same kid who makes 'worlds greatest rock band' playlists on youtube...
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