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NHL Lockout Update: Games Cancelled Through 11/30  
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1615 times:

        

This is pathetic. Seriously pathetic. It's not about sides anymore, but rather, BOTH sides need to get their heads seriously checked, or we could see the NHL have to actually go away because the fans are PISSED. Twitter and facebook are erupting in anger right now. Gary Bettman is pathetic and incompetent, the players are becoming more and more selfish, and I am losing my long flowing hair with all this crap   

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=644323 From the mouth of the venomous snake itself

End rant. I love hockey. It's the only sport I am good at, but the professional levels are just completely outrageous.


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32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineairtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3707 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1609 times:
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I love hockey more than any sport, and not being able to watch the Red Wings is pissing me off. That said, the Stanley Cup should be given to another league and let them play for it. Screw the NHL, let it go under and a new league form. I am tired of this shit happening every few years.


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User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1604 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
I am losing my long flowing hair with all this crap
Quoting airtran737 (Reply 1):
I am tired of this shit happening every few years

Ditto. They are seriously playing with our patience. Once they find an agreement, I really hope Bettman resigns. I'm tired of this dude. This is the 3rd lockout under his reign. Enough is enough!

And the NHLPA have their share of responsibilities too.

WE WANT HOCKEY!!!    



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1596 times:

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 1):
I love hockey more than any sport, and not being able to watch the Red Wings is pissing me off.

Now the fans of the other NHL teams get to experience the feeling the fans of the Atlanta Thrashers felt last season........

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 2):

Ditto. They are seriously playing with our patience. Once they find an agreement, I really hope Bettman resigns. I'm tired of this dude. This is the 3rd lockout under his reign. Enough is enough!


And the NHLPA have their share of responsibilities too.

The irony there is that labor peace was one of the main things the league was tasking him with when he became the first NHL Commissioner back in 1993. Personally him and Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly could take a long walk off of a short pier for all I care. Same with the entire corrupt NHL Board Of Governors. If the NHL never plays another game, I wouldn't shed a tear as they don't care about the fans.....

When the NHLPA brought in Donald Fehr to head up the organization, I knew that there would not be any labor peace. There are plenty of baseball fans that to this day despise him (as well as Bud Selig) for the 1994-95 MLB strike.

I like the t-shirt that the Gwinnett Gladiators of the ECHL have produced:


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4792 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1584 times:

I could care less about the millionaire crybabies in the league and ownership offices. The people I feel for are those that work the venues, run the concessions and the charities that depend on fundraising events. This strike hurts the fans and workers far more than the players and owners.
I think it is pathetic how a bunch of so called negitators can't do their jobs anymore. I think they should all lbe requirerd to pay a good portion of their salary and commisions a day to charity for every day they fail to negotiate this deal



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1563 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 3):
When the NHLPA brought in Donald Fehr to head up the organization, I knew that there would not be any labor peace. There are plenty of baseball fans that to this day despise him (as well as Bud Selig) for the 1994-95 MLB strike.

The players felt in the lest negotiations in 2004 that they blinked first and got screwed. The reason Donald Fehr was brought in is that he doesn't blink (see: World Series). I realise the players are way overpaid but they're going against a cabal of uber right-wing owners who would like nothing better than to crush the NHLPA.

Gary Bettman has met his match and his ego is driving this thing now. Once settled, and it will be, he'll get cast aside like a dirty rag. Good riddance. Same for dome-head, er, Daly.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 4):
The people I feel for are those that work the venues, run the concessions and the charities that depend on fundraising events. This strike hurts the fans and workers far more than the players and owners.

This is very true. Sports bars that would have 6-7 staff on game night are staffing at 1 or maybe 2. As for the fans, well, there''s other things to do. 1994-5 I went to the symphony, ballet, opera (didn't really like that but the g.f. said "go"). There's always something else.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently onlineFlyKev From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 1388 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1546 times:
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I am getting pretty damn fed up with the lockout myself. Unlike in North America my options are fairly limited when it comes to hockey; whilst there is hockey here its not exactly NHL grade and nowhere near the same. I hope this all gets resolved soon but I can still see 2012 being a write off.

I despise Fehr, Bettman I dislike but not so much as he is pretty much the NHLs whipping boy.

Kev.



The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13198 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1545 times:

I think the cities and states/provinces where NHL Teams play ought to sue the teams, the players and the NHL itself for the possible lost income, sales and corporate taxes and related revenues. Cities like Buffalo are badly hurt when the NHL doesn't play.
Both the players and owners have to face a reality, that in the future there will not be the cash available. Players and their agents need to stop seeking obscene money, long term contracts without performance clauses yet make sure junior players are fairly paid. Owners of big market teams have to share some revenue among the league to the lower revenue ones to assure some balance for the small market teams vs. the big market ones. Owners just can't keep raising ticket and concession prices or more fans will just stay away.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1528 times:

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 1):
I am tired of this shit happening every few years.

I thought they had a lock out last year.

In any case, the owners and players should be criminally responsible for the losses occurred that impacted each city negatively.

Throw their asses in jail. This whole lock out crap, regardless of sport, is pretty immature and childish and is the quickest way to lose fan base.

Without fans, the teams are nothing, regardless of sport.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

I don't read too much into this crap, but from what I see, the Owners and Players are both pushing to gain a larger share of hockey-related revenue. They can't reach an agreement, so they go on strike and that causes the beginning of the season to be pushed back, and the season could possibly be cancelled. As a result...

Less games = Less Tickets Sold = Less Revenue.

Less Games = Less Games Airing on TV = Less Revenue.

Fans getting irritated with the strike = purchasing less tickets and merchandise = Less Revenue.

Meaning that Revenue will take a significant hit (From what I hear, it hasn't fully recovered from the 04-05 Lockout). So no matter which side wins and gets the largest slice of the pie, the larger slice of the pie after this crap will be smaller than the small piece of the pie before it all happened. Meaning that no matter who wins, they won't increase their profit.


User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1933 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1519 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 3):
I like the t-shirt that the Gwinnett Gladiators of the ECHL have produced

I love it!

Quoting casinterest (Reply 4):
The people I feel for are those that work the venues, run the concessions and the charities that depend on fundraising events. This strike hurts the fans and workers far more than the players and owners.

I couldn't agree more. It reminds me of the line "When the rich wage war, it's the poor who die".

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 5):
I realise the players are way overpaid but they're going against a cabal of uber right-wing owners who would like nothing better than to crush the NHLPA.

Sorry, but those "uber right-wing owners" are the reason the teams exist, and as such, carry all the liability. Too many people forget that professional sports are a business. The party who carries all the risk (players carry none) should be rewarded accordingly (more money).

Further to that point, I don't believe that an occupation that commands an average annual salary of over $2M requires unionization of any form...but that's for another thread I guess.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
In any case, the owners and players should be criminally responsible for the losses occurred that impacted each city negatively.

Throw their asses in jail. This whole lock out crap, regardless of sport, is pretty immature and childish and is the quickest way to lose fan base.

I'm struggling to find the laws that they are criminally guilty of...can you point us in the right direction?

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 9):
so they go on strike

They're locked-out, not striking.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1516 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 10):
I'm struggling to find the laws that they are criminally guilty of...can you point us in the right direction?

Not paying the rent, for starters......



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1933 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1507 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Not paying the rent, for starters......

Not paying rent (I'm not even sure if they're guilty of that or not) falls under "breach of contract", which is subject to civil litigation.

I'm as pissed as anyone about there being no NHL hockey right now, but the owners have done nothing criminal. In fact, the lock-out is perfectly legal according to Canadian and American labour code.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1499 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 3):
The irony there is that labor peace was one of the main things the league was tasking him with when he became the first NHL Commissioner back in 1993. Personally him and Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly could take a long walk off of a short pier for all I care

I can't agree with you more right now SRB

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 2):
WE WANT HOCKEY!!!

  

Quoting srbmod (Reply 3):
I like the t-shirt that the Gwinnett Gladiators of the ECHL have produced:

That is golden. When I go back to Cincy i'll see if the Cyclones have anything like that

Quoting casinterest (Reply 4):
I could care less about the millionaire crybabies in the league and ownership offices. The people I feel for are those that work the venues, run the concessions and the charities that depend on fundraising events. This strike hurts the fans and workers far more than the players and owners.

I was talking about this to my friends today and as part of my rant i remember saying "We don't have players, coaches, or managers anymore, we have F****** D**K Suckers!!" And my friends just kinda looked at me

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 5):
Quoting casinterest (Reply 4):
The people I feel for are those that work the venues, run the concessions and the charities that depend on fundraising events. This strike hurts the fans and workers far more than the players and owners.

This is very true.

These people suffer more than the fans  
Quoting FlyKev (Reply 6):
but I can still see 2012 being a write off.

Me too....sadly    This is my last season in the USA before moving to Japan next year.

I'm gonna start my own NHL...with Blackjack and Hookers.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 7):
I think the cities and states/provinces where NHL Teams play ought to sue the teams,
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 10):
I'm struggling to find the laws that they are criminally guilty of...can you point us in the right direction?
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 12):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 11):
Not paying the rent, for starters......

Not paying rent (I'm not even sure if they're guilty of that or not) falls under "breach of contract", which is subject to civil litigation.

Exactly, I can't really figure out what they're guilty of....can someone in congress/government/the prez have any say in the lockout, like how a judge can force a strike to end?



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User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2838 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1493 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

This lockout has been beyond irritating. The greed from both sides is awful. League revenues are up big time, why do the owners need a bigger piece of the pie when the hockey has been awesome. Thank god I have my North Dakota men's hockey team to keep me going. I was hoping this year could be the Wild's year with their off season acquisitions. But apparently not. One thing though that I will give to the players is the player's contract adjustments. How does one change the conditions of a contract without individual negotiations? If the owners aren't happy with what they are paying these guys they should have never let it get to this point.
Blue



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1933 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1473 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
I'm gonna start my own NHL...with Blackjack and Hookers.

In fact...forget the NHL!  
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
can...the prez have any say in the lockout
He did...but he can't actually do anything about it for three reasons:

1) It's a legal lockout that isn't putting a burden on the Canadian economy

2) Obama has no jurisdiction in Canada

3) Imagine the headlines if he did do anything? Romney and his campaign team would piss themselves like excited dogs just thinking about how they could use it to their advantage. Not to mention the ravenous media..."Breitbart: Obama Legislates New Jersey Devils Players Back To Work, Confirming He Worships Satan"

The only way they will get forced back to the table is via mediation, or if they go to arbitration. My gut feeling is that if they went to arbitration, the owners would win, but that's just speculation on my part.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 14):
why do the owners need a bigger piece of the pie when the hockey has been awesome

The entire business world is laughing at this statement.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 14):
How does one change the conditions of a contract without individual negotiations?

That is exactly why the idea of a "players' union" is a total farce. I'll echo my earlier sentiment: In an occupation where the average worker makes over $2 million annually, the laws of labour supply and demand should be in effect. Unions are reserved for areas where there is an opportunity for workers to be taken advantage of (to the point of burden, nobody make $2 million a year is burdened in any way).

If you go back to the roots of the NHLPA, it's clear to see why it was created. Back in the 60's, the NHL was not too upfront about pension policies (the players thought they were getting screwed, and they probably were), and the highest paid player in the league was Bobby Orr, pulling in $35,000/season. Like we've seen many other unions do over the course of labour relations history, the NHLPA was created out of necessity, and quickly turned into a monetary blackhole whose mandate is to screw anyone who has more money than them.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1465 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 8):
I thought they had a lock out last year.

That was the NBA, which is the league the NHL plucked Gary "The Count" Bettman from..... The NFL also had a lockout last year.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):

That is exactly why the idea of a "players' union" is a total farce. I'll echo my earlier sentiment: In an occupation where the average worker makes over $2 million annually, the laws of labour supply and demand should be in effect. Unions are reserved for areas where there is an opportunity for workers to be taken advantage of (to the point of burden, nobody make $2 million a year is burdened in any way).

I remember just prior to the last lockout, a reporter joked with Mike Modano that he could probably get $400 a week playing in the minors, to which he responded, "That wouldn't pay for my dog's food for a month."

Pro sports salaries in general are well above the norm. Here are the minimum salaries of the four major pro sports for the most recent/current season:

MLB: $480,000
NFL: $390,000-$920,000 depending on how many years the player has played in the NFL. Those numbers will go up by $15,000 the next three seasons.
NHL (The last season under the old CBA): $525,000
NBA: $473,604-$1,352,181 depending on how many years the player has played in the NBA. Those minimums increase starting next season (13-14) and continue to until the last season of the current CBA (20-21).

I think most of us would have no problem making the minimum pro sports salary and for the most part spend the bulk of the season sitting on the bench....


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8036 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1454 times:

Given that Donald Fehr is now heading the NHLPA, don't be surprised we lose another whole season like what happened in 2004-2005.  

User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1255 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1449 times:

In the meantime I'll enjoy watching KHL games and invite others to do the same.


I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1432 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):

That is exactly why the idea of a "players' union" is a total farce. I'll echo my earlier sentiment: In an occupation where the average worker makes over $2 million annually, the laws of labour supply and demand should be in effect

Exactly. I don't know why they're asking for this collective bargaining stuff. Take your millions and let me continue spending $100 per ticket   

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 13):
I'm gonna start my own NHL...with Blackjack and Hookers.

In fact...forget the NHL!

It will be BHL- Bender Hockey league  
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):
2) Obama has no jurisdiction in Canada

That's true.....hm...

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):
1) It's a legal lockout that isn't putting a burden on the Canadian economy

Not putting a burden on the economy of Canada? Whattttt? I thought Canada breathed hockey and pissed maple syrup   

Quoting srbmod (Reply 16):
That was the NBA, which is the league the NHL plucked Gary "The Count" Bettman from..... The NFL also had a lockout last year.

And this year too, if you recall:
Quoting RayChuang (Reply 17):
Given that Donald Fehr is now heading the NHLPA, don't be surprised we lose another whole season like what happened in 2004-2005.

That's what a lot of analysts are predicting.



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User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1425 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 10):
Sorry, but those "uber right-wing owners" are the reason the teams exist, and as such, carry all the liability. Too many people forget that professional sports are a business. The party who carries all the risk (players carry none) should be rewarded accordingly (more money).

It's not their right to make money that I dispute, it's the politics behind the "eat sh*t and die" attitude.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):
If you go back to the roots of the NHLPA, it's clear to see why it was created. Back in the 60's, the NHL was not too upfront about pension policies (the players thought they were getting screwed, and they probably were), and the highest paid player in the league was Bobby Orr, pulling in $35,000/season. Like we've seen many other unions do over the course of labour relations history, the NHLPA was created out of necessity, and quickly turned into a monetary blackhole whose mandate is to screw anyone who has more money than them.

Simply not true. Bobby Hull was pulling in $100k late 60s, as was Gordie Howe. Bobby wanted $200k but Wirtz wouldn't give it to him. Ben Hatskin in Winnipeg said "Not only will I give you 200, I'll give you 250, plus a mil up front", and the WHA was born.

"Benny the Hat", according to rumour, was the local capo in Winnipeg. Not sure for which family. What I do know is that at the end of my residential street growing up in Winnipeg was a night club called the "Rancho Don Carlos" where Vegas acts regularly showed up. In Winnipeg ? What I do know is that there was no crime in our neighbourhood, and anyone who got out of line got a thumping, and the police looked the other way. Winnipeg is endlessly interesting.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently onlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1933 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1414 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
Not putting a burden on the economy of Canada? Whattttt? I thought Canada breathed hockey and pissed maple syrup

For all the money being lost in the NHL, the AHL, QMJHL, OHL, and WHL are making a windfall. I'm sure Junior A/B/C/D and the CIS are seeing a nice increase in revenue as well. Hockey in Canada is doing just fine.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 20):
Ben Hatskin in Winnipeg said "Not only will I give you 200, I'll give you 250, plus a mil up front", and the WHA was born.

But that wasn't until well into the 70s, wasn't it?

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 20):
Simply not true. Bobby Hull was pulling in $100k late 60s, as was Gordie Howe.

I've been Googling it for the past 10 minutes and I can't find a reliable source to back-up your numbers, so I'll have to take your word for it since it was 20 years before my birth.  



Flying refined.
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1359 times:

So now we may have the Winter Classic cancelled too:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408407

Seriously, why don't both parties talk at all? Fehr and Bettman are like two kids sulking in their corner  

We should create the NHLFA (National Hockey League Fans' Assocation) and be allowed to put maximum pressure on those two morons.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 22):
So now we may have the Winter Classic cancelled too:

         This is outrageous!!!!!!!!!

Here's the problem. The Blue Jackets, the worst team in the league, NEEDS this All-Star game weekend to prop up the organization in order to keep it from bk. IF THE ALL STAR GAME IS CANCELLED, Then the Jackets will probably go under as a team. This is absolutely crazy. I am surprised there aren't riots in the streets yet.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 22):
We should create the NHLFA (National Hockey League Fans' Assocation) and be allowed to put maximum pressure on those two morons.

I fully agree on this.



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User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2838 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1301 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 23):
Here's the problem. The Blue Jackets, the worst team in the league, NEEDS this All-Star game weekend to prop up the organization in order to keep it from bk. IF THE ALL STAR GAME IS CANCELLED, Then the Jackets will probably go under as a team. This is absolutely crazy. I am surprised there aren't riots in the streets yet.

As much as it will help the team I think the winter classic would just delay the inevitable. Not to mention I don't think there are enough blue jacket fans to carpool to the games, never mind riot.
Blue



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
25 StarAC17 : He isn't going anywhere, he represents the owners and they love him for what he does. This is what is the most annoying, literally lock Fehr and Bett
26 Post contains images PHX787 : I was referring 'riot' to every other team. Surprised Montreal hasn't broken any storefronts yet The problem is, Nationwide Arena is under a lease by
27 Post contains images GrahamHill : Actually, it's very quiet here. Of course the sports media talk about the lockout everyday, but the fans are cool. Probably because the weather is st
28 jetblueguy22 : Although they didn't have the lease when the Whalers bailed it hurt our downtown. The XL center where they used to play is a ghost town. It's pretty
29 Post contains images WestJet747 : I think you're being too kind. I say at least 6 teams need to move. Bettman fails to realize that 'big city' does not equal 'big hockey market'. You
30 srbmod : When the owners of a club also own the operating rights for the arena, they don't have to worry about such things and can sell off a team with very f
31 Post contains links and images PHX787 : http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireSto...ic-big-house-17627290#.UJQBwIWTB5U Winter Classic to be cancelled this year
32 AirframeAS : Seattle wants a Hockey team.... Seattle is getting a new arena for NBA (Bringing back the Sonics either as an expansion team or relocation from anoth
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