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CIA Ops Told To Stand Down In BEN Attack  
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3269 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4093 times:

The two CIA operatives who came to help with the fight at the Benghazi consulate where told to stand down 3 times ignoring the order the 3rd time and went to the fight. Also reports of two drones and a A130U gunship watching the whole attack live.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...uring-benghazi-attack-sources-say/

So who and why would give the order to stand down and let the ambassador get killed?


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
259 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4094 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
The two CIA operatives who came to help with the fight at the Benghazi consulate where told to stand down 3 times ignoring the order the 3rd time and went to the fight. Also reports of two drones and a A130U gunship watching the whole attack live.

Do you have a source other than Fox?


User currently offlineVenus6971 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1437 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

Risk adversion, it has been going on for awhile now, Commanders afraid to release weapons that could boomerang on from the militaries JAG corp on bringing them up on charges. Also the State dept is full of non risk taking careerists who never stick their own neck out for the fear of it getting chopped off.


I would help you but it is not in the contract
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3269 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 1):
Do you have a source other than Fox?

Why is it every time a Fox News story appears people want another source? I don't see people asking for the obviously leftwing biased MSM for additional sources. The MSM probably won't cover this because it exposes the guy in the White House as incompetent or a traitor. So much for Leon Panetta's claim they had no intelligence.

[Edited 2012-10-26 13:16:50]


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4153 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
So who and why would give the order to stand down and let the ambassador get killed?

Not sure what you are trying to imply here, but at that point, it would be the CIA chain of command.

Quoting Venus6971 (Reply 2):
Risk adversion, it has been going on for awhile now, Commanders afraid to release weapons that could boomerang on from the militaries JAG corp on bringing them up on charges. Also the State dept is full of non risk taking careerists who never stick their own neck out for the fear of it getting chopped off.

Problem here was that it was not an active war zone, and the Libyan Government was supposed to be providing security. There are a lot of ramifications for violating a countries soveriegnty. Especially if you don't know what was going on.

Hindsight and monday morning quarterbacking make this look like a fiasco, but at the time , no one knew what was going on.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 3):
Why is it every time a Fox News story appears people want another source?

Because Fox is neither unbalanced nor is it trustworthy. Would you accept an article that is only published in the HuffPo without question? I sure hope you wouldn't, because I wouldn't.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4153 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 3):
The MSM probably won't cover this because it exposes the guy in the White House as incompetent or a traitor. So much for Leon Panetta's claim they had no intelligence

This is why we need somehting other than fox news. it turns people into irrational fools.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15444 posts, RR: 26
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4062 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
So who and why would give the order to stand down and let the ambassador get killed?

Because going around shooting if you aren't sure who to shoot is a poor idea? Or that two CIA agents maybe aren't the best option for fighting off a mob and may be more useful waiting and watching.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 3):
Why is it every time a Fox News story appears people want another source?

Because they have a bad habit of reporting things that aren't really true.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3269 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4044 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Because Fox is neither unbalanced nor is it trustworthy.

...and ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYT are such fine journalistic organs.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 4):
There are a lot of ramifications for violating a countries soveriegnty

But they had no problem violating Libyan airspace when the Colonel was in power.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18675 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4032 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 8):
...and ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYT are such fine journalistic organs.

When you believe that only Fox is trustworthy and that ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN are all part of the same conspiracy, then I can't reason with you or argue with you, so I won't.

[Edited 2012-10-26 13:38:54]

User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2690 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4028 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 4):
Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):So who and why would give the order to stand down and let the ambassador get killed?
Not sure what you are trying to imply here, but at that point, it would be the CIA chain of command.

And the CIA reports to who? When an attack is going on do youu think the CIA just sits on it and does nothing. There was flash traffic worldwide when this happened. The Pentagon, State and the White house new what was happening. This did not happen in a CIA vacuum.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 6):

Because going around shooting if you aren't sure who to shoot is a poor idea? Or that two CIA agents maybe aren't the best option for fighting off a mob and may be more useful waiting and watching

Sorry but CIA had special forces on the ground near the compound. They heard the fighting and could not wait any longer and went to the sound of gunfire and died while Obama went to bed. This is turning ointo one of the most disgusting disasters that I have seen in my lifetime.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 6):
This is why we need somehting other than fox news. it turns people into irrational fools.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
Because Fox is neither unbalanced nor is it trustworthy.

This what they say when they have no answer. Blame the source

Quoting casinterest (Reply 4):
Problem here was that it was not an active war zone, and the Libyan Government was supposed to be providing security. There are a lot of ramifications for violating a countries soveriegnty.

You have to be kidding right? Not a war zone? Violating a countries soverignty? Makes me want to puke to hear this coming out of the left's mouth today.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4153 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4018 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 8):
But they had no problem violating Libyan airspace when the Colonel was in power.

You act as if a 2-4 hour attack is the same as a weeks and months long process of diplomatic movements for much larger issues .

But please keep up with faux outrage from the fake news channel over irrational conparisons.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4153 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4017 times:

.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 10):
You have to be kidding right? Not a war zone? Violating a countries soverignty? Makes me want to puke to hear this coming out of the left's mouth today

Explain it then? What would you call it if China came in and blasted DC to protect their consolate ?
You have no clue what soveriegnty and diplomacy is.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7257 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

I'm sure if we showed more force there'd be multiple incidents where we blast away civilians. No one in the US wanted these 4 Americans killed, but we know nothing about this story. Were they trying to engage a few people that were obviously trying to kill the ambassador or were they looking at permission to fire away at a crowd killing innocent people? (Sure some in the crowd were guilty, but you can't assume everyone at that protest was out for blood.)

This Libya thing is out of control, absolutely. I usually jump on people that accuse one side (blanketing a whole group of people rather that a few individuals) but there are so many on the right shooting at the hip, taking every tiny detail in this incident and automatically sending out a mob for the President's head. It's getting ridiculous.

The President isn't Jesus and he is not going to chose the 100% right course of action 100% of the time. Yes there are many factors that could have been handled better, but yall are jumping on him like so many jump off a police officer when he has to use force... there are so many things going on, so many unknowns, you have to escalate force just enough or you kill innocent people and are screwed, and if you don't react quickly enough people will die as well.

Throw any other person in the President's place and I bet you 90% would have handled it the same way... maybe they wouldn't have a whole group that is looking to crucify them at every wrong move.

/rant



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10989 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

So, IS there a source other than foxnews on this?


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User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3389 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3995 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 12):
Explain it then? What would you call it if China came in and blasted DC to protect their consolate ?
You have no clue what soveriegnty and diplomacy is.

The problem with that is that there was no central government control of Benghazi. It doesn't get much news but much of Libya is not under central government control.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3990 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
So who and why would give the order to stand down and let the ambassador get killed?

If we are talking about the CIA then we need to look to the Director of the CIA: David H. Petraeus

(https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/leadership/david-h.-petraeus.html)

This guy is no slouch, but he is Director.

Like the State Department, I can see the CIA reviewing the issues (and actions) very carefully and delivering a solid report to the President.

Personally I am ready to give Petraeus the benefit of the doubt until we see something very solid to change my opinion.


User currently offlinePu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 690 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3988 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 3):
Why is it every time a Fox News story appears people want another source?

Because Fox has become in the weeks leading up to the election nothing more than a mouthpiece of the Republican Party. Zero balance whatsoever, all neutral or pro-Obama news stories are not covered. In fact most non-political stories are ignored unless they can make the Obama administration look bad.

Todays big GDP news is not even mentioned on Foxnews.com! (hmmmm, can't imagine why....)

Every day for the last couple weeks foxnews.com has run a big-scary-headline and an unflattering Obama picture as their main headline, and has instigated a permanent feature on covering not the news, but other news services, which they label "Bias Alert".

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 8):
CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, NYT are such fine journalistic organs.

Do you ever read them?

I goto Fox, CNN, the BBC wlmost every day. CNN makes a conscious effort to print an equal number of good and bad stories on both candidates, and even more revealing covers stories like the hurricane, the Italian PM who is going to jail, and recent positive US economic news (GDP revised up to 2% growth from 1.3%). Meanwhile, a murder in Libya weeks ago is held by Fox to be the most important story for more than a month!

Pu


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7257 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3968 times:

Quoting Pu (Reply 17):
Meanwhile, a murder in Libya weeks ago is held by Fox to be the most important story for more than a month!

And we must appluad their bravery since everyone else knows this issue is being blown up due to politics lacks journalistic integrity and is corrupt  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3269 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3946 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 11):
You act as if a 2-4 hour attack is the same as a weeks and months long process of diplomatic movements for much larger issues .

I'll remember that when you're being assaulted because I don't want to be accused of tresspassing.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
This guy is no slouch, but he is Director.

...and the silence is deafening from him.

Quoting Pu (Reply 17):
Meanwhile, a murder in Libya weeks ago is held by Fox to be the most important story for more than a month!

So I suppose you don't care if someone lies about how you died or worse did nothing to stop it. BTW, if Fox is so BS why do you even waste your time going there?

Maybe this will help.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...a-security-Libya-hours-killed.html

"Defense department officials considered sending troops in to rescue the ambassador and staff, according to CBS News, but ultimately decided not to "



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinePu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 690 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3929 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 19):
BTW, if Fox is so BS why do you even waste your time going there?

To understand people

....who only goto Fox
and
....who get emotional satisfaction from being made angry

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 19):
So I suppose you don't care if someone lies about how you died or worse did nothing to stop it
Priorities, bjorn.

I don't care much about a murder in an emerging pro-American democracy that is nevertheless not in total control of fringe anti-American elements. 1000s of Americans die of unnatural causes overseas every year, some by foul play. Regrettable, but not high on the list of America's problems.

Nearly 2000 Americans have died on the streets of America at the hands of other Americans since the Benghazi matter that is so important to the Right: to many of us America's problems are primarily at home and NOT the fault of the Muslim world...but, we get it, the "foreign threat," especially Islamic, is a big deal to Republicans. Less so for others.

Pu


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6476 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3924 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 19):
So I suppose you don't care if someone lies about how you died or worse did nothing to stop it.

Where was all the outrage from conservatives when Bush sent thousands of troops into Iraq to die without proper training or equipment to deal with insurgent forces...a war based on intelligence that everyone knew was faulty.

I'm not saying the handling of Benghazi was done well, but conservative outrage over it is a joke.


User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10989 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3903 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 19):
Maybe this will help.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html

And if you said he would pick the Daily Mail as his "alternative" news source, you win the prize!

"The Daily Mail is a conservative, British daily middle-market tabloid newspaper"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_daily_mail

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 21):
conservative outrage over it is a joke.

  



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6094 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3871 times:

Are CIA operatives rambo (or rather Jason Bourne) ? What good would have they done ? And what about a freakin' gunship ! A great way to turn the ambassador in a red splash.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3864 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 19):
...and the silence is deafening from him.

Ahahaha, how quickly fortunes change in the world of political diehards!

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 3):
Why is it every time a Fox News story appears people want another source?

Because the people who post stories from it have a reputation, earned or not, for following it up with stuff like this:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 3):
I don't see people asking for the obviously leftwing biased MSM for additional sources. The MSM probably won't cover this because it exposes the guy in the White House as incompetent or a traitor. So much for Leon Panetta's claim they had no intelligence.

I think that on balance, people who obliquely accuse the President of the United States of conspiracy and treason are more likely to twist established facts and take things out of context, than other people who are not making such accusations. At least, be aware of the company you keep when you're saying such things.

In all seriousness, the Benghazi tragedy has become yet another manufactured-outrage story that sells big when few other things are happening. So maybe there was a confused initial response, so maybe the first few statements released didn't exactly reflect what actually took place. What are we supposed to make of that? Very few catastrophes come with instructions for what to do as and after they occur, and frankly the public has forgiven much larger oversights and failures in the past.


25 seb146 : All the time people ask. No one on the right trusts HufPo, WaPo, MSNBC just like no one on the left trusts FOX or CBS. I notice the "balanced" news s
26 Post contains links fr8mech : Remember when the National Enquirer was the only one reporting on the John Edward's love child? Remember when it was only CBS News reporting on Fast a
27 Newark727 : Because people are reporting that they actually did give that order? And your point is what exactly? It didn't happen under a Republican president; t
28 Mir : Because they had a UN Security Council resolution asking them to do it. Why is the difference so hard to understand? -Mir
29 fr8mech : Why didn't the statement read: "No such order was given to our people"? Why is the statement crafted to remove the CIA from the loop? As time goes on
30 Post contains images Ken777 : His job is to talk to the President, not journalists. And The Sun? At least it has the Page 3 Girls. Maybe because they were given the green light to
31 jakeorion : Say what you want about everything else, but I believe this should be the key point. The fact the administration lied about it and nobody cares.
32 Mir : Indeed. And until it does, perhaps we should refrain from drawing conclusions based on heat-of-the-moment statements, emails, phone calls, etc. which
33 fr8mech : Really. You missed the whole intelligence briefing thing? What did Bush know and when did he know it? Come on. When the media shook off their new fou
34 BMI727 : Basically the complaints of people seem to come down to the fact that apparently we didn't shoot enough Muslims or something like that.
35 DeltaMD90 : What is the lie? Being vague and not shooting from the hip? I'm not in politics, but I can definitely see why you need to be vague sometimes. Correct
36 casinterest : I wouldn't trust you with a beer run , never mind my own rescue. You'd probably just tell the 130 to open fire without having a clue who is in the bu
37 Mir : Sit down and wait for the investigation to be over, yes. Like the people who actually know how the intelligence game works (like Condi Rice) have sug
38 Darksnowynight : What are you, twelve? If this is the worst thing you've ever seen, all I can ask is in what universe, where? Yeahup, we generally like to respect oth
39 Pu : They are a force at least as influential on US politics as TV itself. . . . A lot of this is less of a deliberate bias in the "left wing media," and
40 EA CO AS : Perhaps you overlooked the fact that the Daily Mail story cited CBS News as the source. Or is CBS News suddenly a conservative mouthpiece as well?
41 seb146 : The Democratic chair of the intelligence committee did not launch full-scale investigations into how 9/11 could have been prevented, did he? The Demo
42 fr8mech : How many budgets have passed out of the House and not been taken up by the Senate? I know of one or two. Would have been an empty hole or would have
43 bjorn14 : Also the President of Libya warned the US of an imminent attack 2 days before the bloodshed happened so it would be just a big of an embarrasment for
44 Darksnowynight : But that's not actually true. Since the 2nd debate, that's actually been debunked a few times now. They were indeed a bit hesitant to call it a speci
45 Post contains images scbriml : Are they getting riled up because there's an agenda? No, that couldn't possibly be the reason, could it?
46 Darksnowynight : Yup. As many have said, if the show were not on the left foot, things would be very different indeed. Does anyone even remember the Hadditha Massacre
47 BN747 : I'm guessing no one on this board has been in a 'Embassy under siege' event...so at lot of this 'we shoulda' .. we coulda, he knew this, they knew tha
48 Pu : That is a big stretch of the definition of terrorism. You act like the administration is hiding something that, if known (as it is known by specially
49 n318ea : It is ironic that President Obama & Company could tell what underwear the Seal Team 6 members where wearing in real time when Bin Laden was killed
50 Pu : Why is that? Haven't you already decided to vote for Romney?
51 Post contains links D L X : And until then, conspiracy theorists will only accept as true what they want to be the truth. If their truth does not materialize today, they'll simp
52 mham001 : That fact only disproves your whining about "sovereignty" and a totally irrelevant analogy about the Chinese in Washington.
53 seb146 : Except he did call it a terrorist attack. Not in the way the right-wing wants him to call it a terrorist attack, but he called it a terrorist attack.
54 Post contains images scbriml : Wait, you seriously think Fox news is too liberal?
55 Ken777 : Didn't realize that you had direct links to the CIA and White House. Check another thread and you'll find that racism isn't anything new. It's been a
56 DeltaMD90 : Yeah, so basically facts were murky in the beginning and they weren't sure the extent of Al-Qaeda's connection in the event so they didn't jump to co
57 Newark727 : So far no one has yet demonstrated any "lie" that couldn't just be attempting to parse the sequence of events as more facts became known. Or if they h
58 DeltaMD90 : That's another good point, do you know how well an AC-130 gunship would stop individuals from killing the ambassador? Extremely well! Except it would
59 Post contains links bjorn14 : Yep. Here's the interview reported by ABC from a local NBC affiliate. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...azi-were-denied-requests-for-help/ I hav
60 Newark727 : You see, this is the thing. I'm not personally familiar with the precision capabilities of the AC-130 or the Predator or whatever else is alleged to
61 Post contains links bjorn14 : http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ac-130u.htm This a/c would have been about 1h 20m from its base in Sicily. The fight lasted 7
62 Pu : Why does imagined humiliation bring such fury to the right? (I love this cop-speak miliatry fans use. Using the acronym POTUS = 90% chance you're Rep
63 DeltaMD90 : Do you know the armament of the AC-130!? Yeah try using an AC-130 to hit a select few people and miss everyone else. Actually lots of protests in the
64 n318ea : Who I vote for has nothing to do that the POTUS may have lied to the Country. See first answer.
65 Post contains images D L X : Wait, so your friend who is amazingly an ex-SEAL, knows everything, and spills all this stuff to you, allows it to be posted on the internet, and the
66 Mir : Because there's a difference between keeping track of a the events and people involved in a mission that you priginate and control and keeping track
67 bjorn14 : I was in Tunisia when the Arab Spring began and got caught in several protests and I saw no firearms carried by protestors. Only the police had them.
68 Pu : 1. What reports, please. 2. Even if he went to bed, this is important why? Guilty until proven innocent, eh? You don't like Obama, we get it, but kee
69 Newark727 : If he's a former officer, I don't see how he could possibly know this. The attack was coincident with wider developments regarding an offensive video
70 DeltaMD90 : And Tunisia is not the only Middle Eastern county. Weapons are very common over there. Regardless, what do you think the President should have done?
71 seb146 : I found the last paragraph of the story interesting: "CIA spokesperson Jennifer Youngblood said, “We can say with confidence that the Agency reacte
72 Post contains links Stabilator : A little information on the C130U gunship: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/ac-130u.htm I'm not sure why some of you seem to th
73 DeltaMD90 : Maybe not destroying the entire country, but ONLY killing a few terrorists rushing inside of a embassy? Plaese explain to me how an AC-130 would be e
74 EA CO AS : Because Ambassador Chris Stevens is dead. Killed by terrorists in a a premeditated attack. The Obama Administration had steadfastly denied that it wa
75 D L X : At the very least, flying an AC-130 in to take out the protesters would appear completely and utterly barbaric if successful. Branch Davidian style.
76 seb146 : Except the following two days when he did call it a terrorist attack. But, to you on the right "Act of Terror" is not even close to "terrorist act" a
77 Post contains links Pu : Along with ~2000 other Americans murdered since then. Why is his death so important to you? Why is this so importanat to you? A few people killed tho
78 EA CO AS : You're joking, right? Why is it seemingly unimportant to you? Clearly, you don't.
79 EA CO AS : Then afterwards, why did he trot out UN Ambassador Rice to FIVE morning talk shows to specifically claim it WASN'T an act of terrorism, but a spontan
80 Newark727 : Because some people have their own set of priorities about what events are worth making political judgments about? I'm not going to say anything abou
81 Newark727 : Maybe first you can establish why the semantics of who called it terrorism when are actually important? I always figured on "act of terror" and an ef
82 Pu : Not at all. An ambassador died. No one would be talking aout it except that Fox has made it their headline for a month straight. American People die
83 DeltaMD90 : He means that instead of focusing so much on this issue we could be working on cleaning up the streets. He's got a point, though I can see the outrag
84 Newark727 : I agree that it should be investigated, but people seem to be focusing on the wrong things in calling for it, mostly the narrative building Al Qaeda a
85 Pu : Why is it so incredibly important to you that one person calls it terrorism and another doesn't? Does this in any way change the FACTS of what happen
86 Pu : All Europeans are communist subversives who root for the terrorists and have no appreciation for America's role as global defender of freedom, but I
87 Flighty : Bingo. Hahaha. Hopefully they'll have some additional thoughts after what happened?
88 EA CO AS : And it's disgraceful that only Fox is talking about it. How would it affect your country if your Ambassador to the United States were gunned down by
89 D L X : Why in that long response did you not answer this question: That seems like an extremely important point, and a good answer to that question would go
90 DeltaMD90 : Al Qaeda IS weaker. Most of their chain of command is dead or captured; they went from causing 9/11, bombing subways and trains in Europe, attempting
91 Pu : I would think its part of the normal climate of gun murders in the USA and not particularly significant. About 3000 American civilians have been kill
92 seb146 : Actually, no. The left is talking about it to in the sense that they are trying to figure out why FOX is making that big of a deal over it. Again: th
93 bjorn14 : And you still believe that lie? Parse----they just ignored it. ...and there are reports that security was intentionally drawn down 2 weeks before the
94 D L X : Why do some people insist on believing Fox News to the exclusion of literally *everyone* else? Why do you believe them when you already know they are
95 Pu : What a fantastic illustration of Right v. Left thinking and priorities...... Mali ! . . . Challenging the US president's claim that the "al-Qaeda thr
96 DeltaMD90 : Um yeah, the video was used as a justification. The attacks most likely would've happened without the video. Just like when terrorists kidnap an Amer
97 Newark727 : The attacks happened at the same time protests began breaking out all over the Muslim world, mostly regarding the video. I'm not implying causation,
98 D L X : Exactly. At the very minimum, it provided excellent cover for the attack.
99 bjorn14 : Because Obama doesn't want to use it to describe the jihadists in the BEN attack. If he did Americans would assume he failed in his duties. America c
100 Post contains links DeltaMD90 : Isn't "act of terror" close enough to "terrorism?" I swear, this President can do no right to some people Too bad we can't follow their footsteps...
101 Newark727 : There was reason to be worried before that, I think the Egyptian embassy actually had a statement about the video before the attacks took place which
102 Post contains links D L X : This is demonstrably false. Here's a timeline. Notice the protests on September 11, 2012 were not limited to Libya. http://www.slate.com/articles/new
103 Pu : Is THIS what the nutbags like Brietbart are saying? Well, thanks for finally explaining why there's such a big hang up about using the word "terroris
104 D L X : Actually, no. You'll notice that when big news breaks (especially if it is potentially damning to a Republican), Fox News does not report it until th
105 bjorn14 : Another source than this leftwing nutjob site?
106 Post contains links casinterest : Take what you get. Your whole thread started from Fake news. Without waiting for the official investigation. The attack was over by 8:30 Eastern. htt
107 D L X : Slate's left wing? Since when?
108 Post contains links DeltaMD90 : Probably about the same time I was left wing (I got implied this in this very thread! LOL) Mr bjorn14, I know it's impossible to reply to every singl
109 Post contains links casinterest : http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...n-u-s-consulate-an-inside-job.html You may call it nutjob, but this site indicates that the "rescue team" from
110 n318ea : 6+ weeks after the murders in Benghazi and the investigation has not been complete? Either this resulted from incredible incompetence or an active cov
111 DeltaMD90 : Based off what?
112 Post contains images D L X : Question: what are your credentials for determining this? (And why haven't YOU figured out what happened? )
113 Maverick623 : And if it had been completed in a week, you'd be crying that the investigation wasn't thorough enough and it was an obvious cover-up. Like DLX said,
114 cws818 : He has absolutely no idea. Wouldn't we all? I think it will be a long wait for a coherent answer.
115 Post contains links bjorn14 : Obama: 'If Somebody Didn”t Do Their Job’ Regarding Benghazi Attack, ‘They’ll be Held Responsible’ http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...att
116 Newark727 : Adjust the premise until it fits the desired conclusion.
117 D L X : What job has Obama failed to do? Please also cite your credentials to make this assessment. (And what are you going to do if you find out it was Petr
118 seb146 : That statement right there negates your entire post, Rush.
119 bjorn14 : He failed to protect a U.S Ambassador (vis a vis the President himself) when he knew within minutes (and was watching live video or his immediate und
120 D L X : And what credentials qualify you to make that assessment? I ask because you have made very definitive conclusions, unsupported by public facts, and n
121 Flighty : Obama lives in a ridiculously complicated world. Hundreds of embassies. Hundreds of threats daily. He had no idea this was happening. It was State bur
122 casinterest : I'll use your reference article to refute your claims. 1. Attack began at 9:40 P.M. 2. Woods and 2 others went to the compound after being told to "S
123 Post contains images KPDX : Except when it's George W. Bush, right?
124 Newark727 : Your own sources say that there were factors in the response that the President couldn't have had control over. When he learned (fully) of the attack
125 DeltaMD90 : I love how certain inconvenient questions get ignored and more nonsense gets rambled. Yeah, it's totally the President's fault. Every time we have dem
126 Post contains images bjorn14 : Uh? Hillary Clinton talking to the Algerians about Islamists in northern Mali and trying to control them negates my post? Except who is at the top of
127 DeltaMD90 : Then what should be do if the "official investigation" isn't doing enough? Shoot from the hip and listen to some pundits that really have no idea how
128 Newark727 : I love it even more when it happens one post after the one pointing it out. Also as an actual America-hating gun-control socialist (well, way more of
129 DeltaMD90 : And I'm not just egging them on... I respect the opinions of many right-leaning posters on this site. Look at my RU list, I think there are more righ
130 D L X : Because you already know everything that happened, and whom to blame? Without a finished investigation? Without your own personal credentials? These
131 Newark727 : So do I, and there's always plenty of blame to go around. There's just something about the internet format that makes it so conspicuous. The worry I
132 Pu : It may very well turn out that in hindsight there was a brief period when an exceptionally responsive rescue force from Sicily or wherever might possi
133 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I was in this boat for a while. This Bengazi situation really opened my eyes though... I saw this situation from the very beginning and I started out
134 seb146 : Calling the Obama administration "the regeme" just like Rush Limbaugh negates your post. Or, trying to distract from the facts of Bengazi by Hillary
135 Post contains links Dreadnought : You find that disgusting? You don't mind that for purely political reasons related to the election (what other possible reason could there be) the ad
136 Newark727 : I don't see what political benefit Obama could have by blaming a terrorist attack on a Youtube video. So far the only thing I've heard is that callin
137 Post contains images D L X : False. There was a protest at the consulate. It is believed that this protest provided cover for the attack. Terrorists claim responsibility for almo
138 Pu : Its hard to believe that the party of Lincoln, Eisenhower and Reagan has devolved into the likes of Joseph Farah, whose made his career off inventing
139 BMI727 : The short answer would be that terrorism is a crime against America and therefore all Americans. If a Crip shoots a Blood somewhere in South Central,
140 Aesma : Considering your strange political system smart people (from all sides) are needed to get something done, so I don't see why democrats would be scared
141 Post contains links bjorn14 : I can't/don't listen to Rush so I don't know what you're talking about. Obama has issued more Executive Orders (923) than any other President save FD
142 johnboy : It's so satisfying to see the wingnuts get absolutely NO traction on this story whatsoever. NONE.
143 helvknight : There is a definite sense of desperation. This looks like a Hail Mary pass.
144 EA CO AS : Absolutely. From the Democratic Party, though. When you have to dispatch Bill Clinton to rally in Minnesota - a state so blue even Ronald Reagan didn
145 Post contains links bjorn14 : Yeah, this wingut must have missed the memo...Former Adm. and current Dem. Rep. from PA Joe Sestak. http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2...8161700296
146 windy95 : Does it satisfy you that the mainstream media does not do it's job? And to say it has no traction is not true at all. The desperation is now on Barry
147 D L X : You got that right! It is the definition of a hail mary pass, when Fox News takes a situation that cannot possibly score, and puts it up every day as
148 casinterest : How did the mainstream media not do it's job? This article proves that fox network does not hire good journalists. She couldn't even put in a timelin
149 Post contains images bjorn14 : When ABC News moves Minnesota & Pennsylvania from 'Safe' Obama to 'Lean' Obama there is a sense of desperation. BTW, last time Minnesota went Rep
150 wingman : There is nothing more depressing to me than seeing people of voting age in this country whose political views are shaped by organizations like Fox New
151 seb146 : I know, right? It is just awful that the president is doing presidential things. Like trying to help New Jersey, New York, Pennsylvania get out from
152 helvknight : Or go to a birthday party.
153 DeltaMD90 : Well something happened... the narrative from the right changed every single day during the first few days following the attack. I listen to right-wi
154 Stabilator : Back in Lincoln's day, the two parties in the United States were basically reversed. What was Republican back in his day, is essentially the same as
155 Post contains links bjorn14 : It looks like there might be cracks in the Big Media. This from the San Diego Union-Tribune. http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/...blood-of-an-americ
156 Post contains images EA CO AS : Cue the shouts of "B..b..b..but that's an OP-ED piece!" in three...two...
157 Post contains images windy95 : But if they watch MSNBC?? How about people voting who have actually read and believe in the Constitution.. Funny how everyone attacks FOX but yet it
158 casinterest : 'It is an op-ed piece, and one written just as poorly as the fake news article. "the U.S. military has considerable assets in the area that could hav
159 Post contains images helvknight : The News of the World was one of the largest selling newspapers in the world. And look how it got there until it was closed down due to the phone hac
160 casinterest : oooh look at fake news now. They aren't running a healdling on sandy and it's devistation, the great job numbers or anything relevent. They are runnin
161 Post contains links bjorn14 : Ok this is on the Opinion page of the WaPo but I'm surprised they let her report on it. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...3-3c7f59038d93_blog.htm
162 DeltaMD90 : Despite not answering a bunch of questions that would clarify your positions a bunch, me being open minded, I do admit a part is a little suspicious:
163 seb146 : So, two things: 1. I don't want to hear the crying and whining from the right about how WaPo is a left wing rag when any sources are cited from there.
164 DeltaMD90 : I've already heard anger towards him... not saying all are outraged or all have the same reason, but the pundit I heard was just pissed he was agreei
165 D L X : Yes. Christie broke the prime directive, which states "whatever the President does, declare that it was wrong, immoral and anti-American." He ignored
166 DeltaMD90 : I'd normally call that out as a generalization and going to the extreme (you know me, that's what I do) but sadly, I think this statement is mostly t
167 cws818 : Popularity and inaccuracy are not mutually exclusive
168 Post contains images EA CO AS : Exactly; just look at President Obama's story about Benghazi, for example! His version is popular with the press, but...
169 bjorn14 : Cutting off your nose despite your face.
170 Post contains images scbriml : Cutting off your nose to spite your face. An expression used to describe a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction to a problem. So not really appl
171 casinterest : I'd say it is perfectly applicable to this thread, and the fake news channel.
172 Dreadnought : oh forgive us! The Valarie Plame story resulted in newly 100 front-page stories in the New York Times, although nobody was hurt. But not a single NYT
173 casinterest : Go look at fake news headlines. How many of those are politically pandering to Conservatives, and how many are real news stories not driven by politi
174 Dreadnought : Deflection and obfuscation. Answer my question. Why did Valarie Plame deserve so much newsprint, and Benghazi none at all? Why has the White House ce
175 Newark727 : There are a whole slew of possible reasons that have nothing to do with Benghazi, I'd imagine. If you're talking about the NYT specifically, she was
176 windy95 : Like the economy, cost of fuel, health care costs still rising, the death toll for our troops in Afghanistan, the exploding debt....
177 D L X : The Valerie Plame story was a criminal action committed by White House staff, and implicating the Vice President of the United States. In other words
178 bjorn14 : Wait. Let me get this straight its OK for the WaPo to report on Watergate with 'unamed adminstration officials' (aka Deep Throat) but not the biggest
179 casinterest : What is it with your claims of watergate? This is nothing like watergate. Just another overblown hypocritical attack by the Fake News network.
180 wingman : I just read the front page piece in the WSJ. The political hacks at Fox News and their inane followers can only be utterly embarrassed by the emerging
181 DocLightning : Other contries that protect freedom of speech have banned Fox from calling itself "News." It's time that it happened here. Telling outright lies as f
182 Post contains links D L X : EDIT: I don't know how that formatting got all jacked up, but here is what the post should have looked like: When the bodies of Ambassador Christopher
183 bjorn14 : My point is that its OK for the lefties to use unnamed sources but not the right.
184 casinterest : Your point is blunted by the irrelevancy, and deep throat was in the administration.
185 D L X : And Bob Woodward also corroborated what Deep Throat said so his readers would know that it is true. Not true here.
186 DeltaMD90 : What one side does wrong doesn't excuse the other side from doing it. You should base what's right on if it's right or not, not by "well it's ok if t
187 Aesma : Watergate was about Nixon doing illegal and immoral stuff. Are any of you accusing Obama of such ? What would that gain him ?
188 Newark727 : This is what I'm trying to figure out. What would Obama gain by allowing four Americans to die? I was unaware that such a thing was capable of making
189 pu : No one was hurt? 100k+ in Iraq were hurt, including, what 4000? Americans lost. The Plame affair wasn't just an administration breaking the law by re
190 DeltaMD90 : I obviously don't agree with it, but I'm pretty sure what they are saying is this: The President wanted to cover up/downplay/etc this situation becau
191 Newark727 : It's a possibility, but some people are taking the narrative way further than that, explicitly or implicitly, before we have all that much evidence t
192 DeltaMD90 : I think many are trying to find some evidence before election. Even the other side can see why one side would want to find the truth out--it would su
193 Post contains links Ken777 : As opposed to "W" Bush not even being invited to come for a cuppa at the GOP Convention and certainly not out on the campaign trail for Bush III. Whe
194 Post contains links bestwestern : An excellent article in Politico on the murders.. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83236.html?hp=l6 'Swift-Boating' of Obama fails David Igna
195 bjorn14 : For two weeks Obama and his Administration were blaming the video thus continuing throwing fuel on the fire and ensuring more 'protests' in the Islam
196 DeltaMD90 : But it did indeed have to do with the video, and most of these protests happened pretty much immediately, not 2 weeks after. In the threads of the da
197 D L X : Bjorn, if you can't answer for the Wall Street Journal report, then you really shouldn't have more to say on this. It has told you that you are dead
198 wingman : Some people revel in their ignorance as pigs revel in their own feces. I see the dimwits at Fox are barely covering the story at this stage. Now they'
199 Post contains links bjorn14 : But the gov't hasn't been disolved yet the politicians (both Dems & Reps) are out there claiming they will help everybody quickly. Day 5 and 3MM
200 DeltaMD90 : Dude, recoveries take time. The non-union worker dilemma is messed up and demands an explanation, but overall, the recovery isn't going that badly. E
201 pu : I don't see any evidence that the military or anyone else offered Obama alternatives that were not taken. Do you? The timeline is too tight. All I se
202 Post contains links DeltaMD90 : In fact, I encourage everyone to look at this article. Chris Christie, a vocal critic of the President, said that the President is doing a good job. L
203 Post contains links bjorn14 : Your right because the Administration almost immediately blamed the video but for 2 weeks were still puushing this meme. Since I know everyone here l
204 DeltaMD90 : Again, why is blaming the video bad? It DID have much to do with the attack. He called it an "act of terror" right away (which I think is safe to say
205 Aesma : There was a big protest around the embassy, caused by the video, when the attack happened. Do you admit this or not, bjorn14 ? There was even a protes
206 Maverick623 : And this is Obama's fault how? Let me explain something to you: I have a lot of family that lives in Long Island, Staten Island, and New Jersey. My p
207 DeltaMD90 : Funny thing is, it was brought up to dodge some of the harder questions in the topic at hand. At least that's what it looks like
208 Dreadnought : No, we aren't accusing him of doing anything illegal. We think he's a moron, and a political sociopath. If people had to die to save his political sk
209 DeltaMD90 : But he called it a terrorist attack (well, act of terror, same thing right?) on Sept 12th...... and again, the youtube video did and does have releva
210 Dreadnought : No, he talked in general about acts of terror. And no, I don't see them to be the same. A riot can be called an act of terror (i.e meant to cow oppon
211 pu : You're worried about nonsense in countries of no possible threat to America, while America at home is a Much Much Much bigger problem. Like anyone in
212 Dreadnought : You are right, we do have bigger problems, like our economy and out of control spending. But we are capable of multi-tasking - just because we have o
213 seb146 : You mean the same truth that has been repeated ad nauseum by the White House and CIA since Sept 12? Or the truth that does not fit the FOX narrative
214 pu : Thank you for admitting the blatantly obvious. The economy is mediocre at best, polling uniformly reveals people put the economy first but the voice
215 pu : How would "knowing the truth" change your vote? I don't think there is any big care about the truth, it's obvious you think this is a way to get vote
216 Newark727 : The worthlessness of America's overseas ventures is a matter subject to debate. Their cost is not. We have committed ourselves to a "War on Terror" a
217 Post contains images Dreadnought : Proof that you pretend to follow what Fox is saying, but in reality are simply parroting leftist blogs. Why bother with you? I thought this was relev
218 pu : I have never read a left wing blog in my life. I read Foxnews.com everyday: Benghazi was the top story for a month, it is still a headline, and they
219 wingman : Dreadnought, have you read the WSJ piece? It describes in detail what the Consulate in Benghazi was, a front for covert CIA operations. It also descri
220 Wolbo : And why exactly do you think that's relevant? If anything there should in fact be a third cartoon drawn on the right showing only the parents of the
221 seb146 : All these people pounding their chest and gnashing their teeth over "the WH didn't release every scrap of evidence fast enough" do not stop to think t
222 Dreadnought : Ummm... Fox New is primarily a TV channel, not a web page. Those things got plenty of coverage, and the only reason Bloomberg gets regulary attacked
223 Post contains links pu : Are you serious? Everything comes from Fox, Brietbart, WND, the Weekly Standard before it ends up here, for instance: To you who watch it religiously
224 Dreadnought : I posted a couple of links to stories. So what? You said EVERYTHING I (and others) say is copied straight from someplace. Prove it. Single story hits
225 bjorn14 : If you didn't know the US has an all-volunteer armed forces (unlike the conscripts of Norden), so he volunteered to be ordered into battle by our Com
226 pu : This Benghazi "story" and this thread were started by a Foxnews (.com) article, which in turn was created by the RNC talking point memos sent out ove
227 Post contains links Dreadnought : Evidence of this? Don't be stupid, as well as insulting. I searched for this and cannot find it. Please repost. What warmongering are you talking abo
228 Post contains links pu : I'm glad you pointed that out. My Bible implies sharing resources with the poor which I interpret as adequate healthcare for everyone regardles of ab
229 Dreadnought : Maybe you should actually read it.
230 pu : I read the Bible everyday. People who need to rely on AN ESSAY to interpret the Bible for them are as intellectually bankrupt as the people who rely
231 Post contains links Dreadnought : Trust you to pervert what he said like that. OK, if you want to be a snob. How about Pope Leo XIII's encyclical Rerum Novarum published in 1891 - wha
232 pu : "encyclical Rerum Novarum" ? Whatever the hell that is, I am certain its not needed to understand either the New Testament OR the reasons why the Ben
233 thediplomat : This is the 'swift boat' of 2012 - if you cant win by normal means, lie and defame.
234 Post contains links Dreadnought : Instead of living in ignorance, try to educate yourself. You did not look it up in Merriam Webster as you said you did - here it is. http://www.merri
235 pu : Apologies, I must have misspelled it when I entered it into the dictionary...and btw lighten up! Pu makes mistakes but happily admits mistakes when D
236 BMI727 : Precisely. I don't hate Obama, but that's the main reason I'd prefer Romney. Just follow the money. I'd be stupid to support policies that might help
237 bjorn14 : Tell that to the families of the dead. In fact Obama got lucky that there weren't more dead Americans as Woods and Doherty rescued 30+ from the consu
238 casinterest : Why are you blaming that on Obama? The records have stated that the superior officers were trying to coordinate resources from the area to help out.
239 DeltaMD90 : Ok, sorry, I think the deaths of thousands in America is a more important priority that 4 dead in Libya. I know we can multitask, but Pu is right, we
240 bjorn14 : Jay Carney hasn't held a daily Presidential briefing for almost 3 weeks. I don't give liars the benefit of the doubt.
241 Post contains images D L X : The people chasing this whale only care to the extent it harms Obama politically. How much attention have you personally given to the families of the
242 DeltaMD90 : What does Jay Carney have anything to do with the official investigation on Libya? I don't trust Carney either, his sole job is to spin everything in
243 seb146 : And how many of those are there to research the half-truths of the right wing? Absolutly. One is about violence by Americans on Americans. The other
244 cws818 : Neither have I. Neither have you. Governor Romney has not given a national interview in over 3 weeks. Congressman Ryan has not given an interview in
245 bjorn14 : The MSM only cares about white crime on blacks/minorities. Black on white or black on black crime not so much.
246 DeltaMD90 : Um I've only really seen crimes against "pretty white women." Don't know which MSM you're watching (and I'm not a fan of MSM either but way to pull t
247 DeltaMD90 : I'm sure many will hiss at me for reviving this thread, but I think it's interesting we haven't heard much about Benghazi lately. I have a suspicion i
248 D L X : I wasn't going to post about it, but I predicted that Fox would bang that hammer up and down as an election issue, but once the election happened, th
249 Newark727 : Not far, I don't think. I imagine it'll get another blurb or two when the investigation is actually finished but it won't be a front-page story unles
250 Post contains links Dreadnought : Well the administration is still trying to keep things under wraps. http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...ors_only_when_they_are_out_of_town
251 D L X : How does "is allowing" square with "trying to keep things under wraps?" And as reported, Petraeus has been called to testify before Congress, in clos
252 AeroWesty : While I was flipping through channels, it's a big story in the second half of O'Reilly tonight.
253 Dreadnought : Explain to me why they are limiting access to 2 days, on short notice, when they know that all of Congress is at home, decompressing after the most g
254 usnseallt82 : My only advice... Let the investigation play out. Speculation does nothing but slow the truth from being circulated. The facts...good men died servin
255 Post contains images scbriml : O'Reilly? I'm shocked. Wait, that would be perspective.
256 casinterest : Explain to me how you can trust these "insider" sources quoted by the far right news sites without any corroboration? Just because you have a vendett
257 Dreadnought : FP magazine is a far right news org? That's news to me.
258 D L X : Dude. It is their job. You seem to think that this is not normal procedure -- that things are given on short notice, and that the country gives a shi
259 casinterest : The quote came from the far right staff member, and not the state department about restricted access. You can now see the CMA quote on the website, w
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