bmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2081 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1359 times:
No doubt this elections 'October surprise' is undoubtedly "Superstorm Sandy" and it seems to be helping Obama in his leadership of the aftermath and monitoring the recovery efforts.
In weekend before 2004 election, a new Bin Laden video surfaced that likely persuaded undecided voters to keep GW Bush in power.
Besides Obama putting the hurricane victims' needs ahead of the election, Could Sandy awaken voters to climate change and Obama's alternate energy agenda?
Also noting Romney's plan to abolish FEMA.....
[Edited 2012-10-31 09:52:16]
The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10561 posts, RR: 53 Reply 2, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1335 times:
I doubt it will do anything for climate change and alternative energy. Hurricanes happen, and like it or not, no solitary event (including this one) is proof of any climate change.
However, as much as people on the talking heads networks are saying not to politicize a disaster, well if not this, then what?
A president's job is to oversee the functioning of the country, and disaster response is a Top Three government responsibility. We have seen how other presidents handled disasters (Bush botched two!) and now we've seen the beginnings of how Obama handles a disaster. Turns out, if Republican and Mitt Romney surrogate Chris Christie is to be believed, Obama is doing a damn good job. A heck-of-a-job, even!
Obama's opponent is on record as wanting FEMA privatized, or at least kicked back to the states. As if Mississippi and Louisiana could have handled Katrina by themselves. He also has a track record: when Massachusetts suffered floods under his watch, the legislature passed a bill to study flood prevention for this area. Obama's opponent vetoed the bill. Disasters, in his mind, should be handled by the private sector.
Can you imagine a world where the fireman shows up at your door, says "this fire costs $6,000 to extinguish" then asks you to pay before they provide a service?
In my mind, this is an issue that is WAY more important than abortion, affirmative action, unions, and evolution.
bjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 2776 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1322 times:
I think it will be a wash politically. Obama (or the Feds) really can't do anything until after the clean-up. FEMA is only a coordinating agency for federal, state and local resources with a few thousand employees not some mega bereaucracy waiting to descend on an area. The only thing that might help him is the perception that he is on top of the situation.
It could possibly help Romney in New York if the storm suppreses voter turnout in the Manhattan area and a more conservative Upstate vote carries the day.
"An idea has to be incredibly absurd to have any reasonable chance of succeeding" --A. Einstein
aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, RR: 47 Reply 4, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1280 times:
Quoting bmacleod (Thread starter): seems to be helping Obama in his leadership of the aftermath and monitoring the recovery efforts
Isn't that part of his job description? I don't doubt that a partisan pundit or two will flame Obama for winning favour by doing his part to help the recovery (that's their job, after all), but there would almost certainly be widespread outrage, highly justified outrage, if he had just kept campaigning and left everything to his subordinates.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
propilot83 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 545 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1238 times:
Brothers and sisters in humanity and in Faith, to me this is more than just a "natural disaster,"......were all being tested again, and yes for sure, Obama is being tested with Hurricane Sandy, not only Obama, but the Congress also, you know I've heard a lot of the so called "gridlock" in Washington, Congress not wanting to pass any more bills because we have a black man in office as President, too much bickering, finger pointing at one another, I believe that those who bear patience and do what is right, and cut the crap of "red tape," etc. those will be the ones who will be successful and learn from this disaster and learn how to work together, so this disaster is truly a lesson for everyone to comprehend.........I will wait and see how the Republicans in the House will respond to this? Will Mr. Boehner of the House, come to terms after this disaster, and release the grid lock and let us go back to the Clinton Era tax cuts..........Happy Halloween
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10561 posts, RR: 53 Reply 6, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1239 times:
Quoting aloges (Reply 4): Isn't that part of his job description? I don't doubt that a partisan pundit or two will flame Obama for winning favour by doing his part to help the recovery
Then you haven't met Mike "Heckuva Job Brownie" Brown:
mbmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2561 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1237 times:
From what I'm hearing from a few respected pundits, the hurricane has distracted citizens from paying attention to each candidate's "closing argument". In a sense, during the week before the election, campaigning is effectively dead in the water. Perhaps the candidates will see more visibility over the weekend, but all plans of building their message toward a final crescendo have been wiped out.
To that degree I would hazard a guess that President Obama benefits from this as he is able to look "presidential" in the waning days of the campaign while Romney hasn't much room for delivering his message or getting a whole lot of air time.
On the other hand, it may blunt the reaction to Romney's outrageously lying speech last week about Jeep closing Ohio plants and outsourcing jobs to China and his new advertisements claiming the same for GM. Top spokespeople from GM and Chrysler have spoken out very sharply on the subject and it looked like a major backlash against Romeny might be welling up in the Buckeye state. But the storm may have cut the edge off of that and may have helped the Romeny campaign in the process.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16819 posts, RR: 57 Reply 8, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1210 times:
Quoting bmacleod (Thread starter): No doubt this elections 'October surprise' is undoubtedly "Superstorm Sandy" and it seems to be helping Obama in his leadership of the aftermath and monitoring the recovery efforts.
Hurricane Sandy did not help Obama, per se. Obama is probablty helping Obama by actually doing his job well.
And the fact that Romney's response was to organize a can drive that the Red Cross said was worse than doing nothing and that he just got finished saying that emergency response should be privatized (privatization is something you do for activities that would be profitable; disaster response is a horrible example of a profitable activity) or kicked to the states, none of that is going to help him.
As for the polls, it is certainly within the power of the state to delay or extend an election in a situation like this.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6150 posts, RR: 25 Reply 9, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1177 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8): As for the polls, it is certainly within the power of the state to delay or extend an election in a situation like this.
I'm not so sure
Article II Section I of the Constitution
Quote: The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
The US Congress in 1845 set the day for the choosing of Presidential Electors to be held in all the states - on the same day - the Tuesday following the first Monday in November.
It would appear that law would have to be amended, modified or otherwise changed by the Congress would have to authorize any changes or delays in the Federal Election Day.
The law does allow the State to appoint electors by any method as the State may provide by law - after the Presidential Election has been held.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16819 posts, RR: 57 Reply 10, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1176 times:
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6150 posts, RR: 25 Reply 12, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1104 times:
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12333 posts, RR: 12 Reply 13, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1082 times:
It may be of slight benefit, especially in Ohio and parts of Pennsylvania that are major battlegrounds over votes and it may be the difference for Pres. Obama. In many areas most affected in NJ including on Election Day, they are more likely to be Republican voters who won't be able to vote.
Sandy does prove that it takes Federal agencies like FEMA, the National Guard and others to bring in the help that states are not enough for. President Obama gets a lot of national attention, looking Presidential with his personal appearances like at the DC HQ of the Red Cross yesterday and in NJ today, making statements to government agencies to work fast, without red tape, without delays, and for his staff to respond to state and agency officials ASAP (like 15 minutes). In contrast, Romney's pandering to the Tea Party bashing FEMA was a huge mistake, adding in his clumsy attempts to campaign and gather stuff to send to NJ, mocked by many and useless to the Red Cross and other boo-boos like the Jeep expansion of production in China and NOT taking away from USA jobs. At least with this disaster we are not hearing as much campaign crap.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8): And the fact that Romney's response was to organize a can drive that the Red Cross said was worse than doing nothing
WOW....
It is funny seeing the left try to capitialize on the global warminng bull while all the bodies have not even ben found yet. Never let a good disaster go to waste....
mt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6354 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (6 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 969 times:
Quoting windy95 (Reply 14):
Can you show me where he sid he would abolish it?
" In a June 13, 2011 GOP primary debate, Romney suggested that states should assume a more significant role in disaster relief. The debate took place soon after a tornado devastated Joplin, Missouri and other communities, and moderator John King of CNN asked Romney whether states should take on a greater role in paying to repair and rebuild.
"Absolutely. Every time you have an occasion to take something from the federal government and send it back to the states, that's the right direction. And if you can go even further and send it back to the private sector, that's even better," Romney said. "Instead of thinking in the federal budget, what we should cut -- we should ask ourselves the opposite question. What should we keep?"
When asked a follow up on whether disaster relief should shift to the states, Romney said: "We cannot -- we cannot afford to do those things without jeopardizing the future for our kids," he said.
"It is simply immoral, in my view, for us to continue to rack up larger and larger debts and pass them on to our kids, knowing full well that we'll all be dead and gone before it's paid off," he added. "It makes no sense at all."
bjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 2776 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 930 times:
Quoting mt99 (Reply 15): "Absolutely. Every time you have an occasion to take something from the federal government and send it back to the states, that's the right direction.
Doesn't sound like he's cutting it to me. Governors have historically wanted to take less Federal money albeit with less strings attached.
"An idea has to be incredibly absurd to have any reasonable chance of succeeding" --A. Einstein
Just being honest, Romney has some explaining to do, but that's not concrete evidence saying he wants to abolish FEMA. I think he wants more to go to the states and let them handle it, or even private companies. While I think that's not really a good idea per se, it's not implying getting rid of anything or letting people out to dry. I think even pro-states Romney would modify his policy if his idea went into effect and wasn't working
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12559 posts, RR: 64 Reply 20, posted (6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 852 times:
Quoting mt99 (Reply 15): Quoting windy95 (Reply 14):
Can you show me where he sid he would abolish it?
" In a June 13, 2011 GOP primary debate, Romney suggested that states should assume a more significant role in disaster relief. The debate took place soon after a tornado devastated Joplin, Missouri and other communities, and moderator John King of CNN asked Romney whether states should take on a greater role in paying to repair and rebuild.
"Absolutely. Every time you have an occasion to take something from the federal government and send it back to the states, that's the right direction. And if you can go even further and send it back to the private sector, that's even better," Romney said. "Instead of thinking in the federal budget, what we should cut -- we should ask ourselves the opposite question. What should we keep?"
When asked a follow up on whether disaster relief should shift to the states, Romney said: "We cannot -- we cannot afford to do those things without jeopardizing the future for our kids," he said.
"It is simply immoral, in my view, for us to continue to rack up larger and larger debts and pass them on to our kids, knowing full well that we'll all be dead and gone before it's paid off," he added. "It makes no sense at all."
Please show me where FEMA was specifically mentioned, and where there was a declaration of intent to abolish it.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Although I feel like trying to convince some people that he is planning to get rid of FEMA is like convincing them that an "act of terror" is different from a "terrorist act."
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18839 posts, RR: 64 Reply 22, posted (6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 822 times:
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 20): Please show me where FEMA was specifically mentioned, and where there was a declaration of intent to abolish it.
From listening to the tape, it sounds like in answer to the FEMA question, Romney is saying that federal disaster relief is something that isn't required to keep in the federal budget. He's obviously grouping FEMA into those items that at the federal level we should include in the question, "what are those things we're doing that we don't have to do."
StarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3216 posts, RR: 9 Reply 23, posted (6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 793 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22): From listening to the tape, it sounds like in answer to the FEMA question, Romney is saying that federal disaster relief is something that isn't required to keep in the federal budget. He's obviously grouping FEMA into those items that at the federal level we should include in the question, "what are those things we're doing that we don't have to do."
This is fine and dandy but lets say a state like California who is broke cannot afford emergency services and also can't borrow money to support it due to balanced budget amendments gets a 7.5 earthquake in downtown LA. Do the feds simply say tough luck??
For those of you that say yes then why the heck is the United States the United States and not 50 separate countries.
D L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 10561 posts, RR: 53 Reply 24, posted (6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 772 times:
Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 23): For those of you that say yes then why the heck is the United States the United States and not 50 separate countries.
At some point, you have to sit down and think hard about what it means to call yourself an American.
With so much hoo-hah about "In God We Trust" being on the money, it's a shame that we have also forgotten that "E pluribus unum" is our actual national motto.
25 zippyjet: From your mouth to God's ears! I remember that horrible moment back in 2004 when that scoundral just so happened to make an appearance on tape prior
26 AeroWesty: In 1964 both states went to LBJ. 1964 Electoral Map
27 flyguy89: Uhhh, yes. Stating that delegating from the federal level to states could mean a multitude of things and not solely "abolishing" FEMA, which he never
28 EA CO AS: Yes, that it's something that could and should be LOOKED AT - along with many other "stop-doing" items that simply don't belong on the Federal budget
29 Ken777: Obama had the benefit of being in office and "taking action". His actions served New Jersey well and Governor Christi is blunt enough a man to tell it
30 AeroWesty: So after saying yes, there's another way of interpreting his remarks, you both basically agreed with my interpretation of Romney's remarks. Interesti
31 EA CO AS: Jesus you're thick-headed; we were pointing out that the OP's statement that Romney had a "plan to abolish FEMA" was falsely jumping to conclusions a
32 Darksnowynight: Well, when you're absolutely wrong about something, sometimes splitting hairs is all that's left to do. But this is America and their entitled to the
33 windy95: Once again please show where he said he would abolish FEMA. The actual logic is that he has never said that he would abolish it. Give it a haircut ,
34 D L X: Wait, you're saying that you can look at that video, read that transcript, and not conclude that Romney was advocating getting rid of FEMA? Who's thi
35 Darksnowynight: Alrighty there, let's play your game. Where did I say anything about DC? A 20f day wouldn't have registered in NY. Point? Bad question, don't care. B
36 windy95: The thread starter needs to prove that he did say it. So far no one has shown where he said he would "abolish" FEMA. Ball is in your court to show th
37 windy95: Sandy-Starved New Yorkers Dumpster Dive
38 aloges: It seems as though Romney, in his classic style, hesitated to make any definitive statement concerning this part of his platform. "We can't afford it
39 D L X: Windy, in your opinion, does "stop doing" mean the same thing as "abolish?"
40 Darksnowynight: They did that. The proofs they furnished are indeed strong enough to prove Romney wants to abolish FEMA. In fact, as a legal matter (if we could some
41 D L X: Really dude? Lowest pressure ever recorded in Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and New York, and it's not that strong of a sto
42 AeroWesty: LOL! Re-read your post I was replying to. The operating word was "intent". I don't know if Romney has a concrete plan or not, he's kind of, you know,
43 D L X: By the way: for people who have the gal to say that Sandy wasn't that bad a storm, the weather experts disagree. It packed more energy than Katrina an
44 AeroWesty: One vote Obama's picked up due to Sandy "In a surprise announcement, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said Thursday that Hurricane Sandy had reshaped his th
45 zippyjet: . . BTW thank you for the information regarding Utah and Alaska going blue in election 1964. (LBJ landslide) I'm surprised no one mentioned the Donald
46 Dreadnought: Really? New Yorkers are dumpster-diving for food, Obama is off campaigning and he comes off smelling like a rose? After the abuse Bush got for Katrin
47 zippyjet: But don't forget "W" proclaimed Browny yer doin a greeeaaat job!>/b> as those in New Orleans and the Gulf coast drowned in alligator sh*t infes
48 Dreadnought: So? Has Obama publicly berated anyone for it? Has he not praised people for it?
49 zippyjet: Sadly under "W's" watch his crony pick and company "screwed the pooch" with Hurricane Katrina. If it was Al Gore or John Kerry in "W's" place and the
50 AeroWesty: Rest assured, the Republican machine is working fast and furiously to find the NY equivalent of the Super Dome. Don't bet against it. Regardless, Oba
51 NAV20: About 'Sandy,' Obama definitely benefitted at first - but I suspect that there's a bit of a reaction setting in. Our early evening news had a couple o
52 ltbewr: Today, President Obama will be doing a conference call with Governors, other top state, major city officials and agency heads as to Sandy Saturday AM,
53 NAV20: Reading between the lines, ltbewr, I see that as evidence that, days after the disaster, FEMA still hasn't got itself organised? As I understand it (
54 Ken777: Katrina showed how a federal government can fail to serve the people in a disaster. Sandy will be Obama's challenge to serve the people in a major dis
55 DeltaMD90: And honestly, it shouldn't be about that. He is the national leader in a very busy time (campaign season) and he has acted strong and swiftly, props
56 Ken777: In the end it is about that, regardless of the timing of the election. Truman made it clear that the buck stops at his desk and Presidents rise and f
57 stratosphere: Agree 100%. This is where I disagree with the majority of the posters here. I think he did benefit early on. However, I still have family and friends
58 rfields5421: In Bush's defense - he faced a state government in Louisiana determined to avoid any favorable publicity for the Republicans. A governor and local po
59 AeroWesty: Did Hurricane Sandy Blow Romney Off Course? "If President Obama wins re-election on Tuesday, the historical memory of the race might turn on the role
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