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F1 2012: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix  
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2502 times:

Abu Dhabi F1 2012 Grand Prix

Yas Marina Circuit
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

Circuit Length 5.554kms
55 laps
Circuit Turns 21
Circuit Direction anti-clockwise
Capacity 50,000
Established 2009
Designer Hermann Tilke

November 2: Free practice 1
November 2: Free practice 2
17:00 local | 13:00 GMT | 14:00 CET
November 3: Free practice 3
14:00 local | 10:00 GMT | 11:00 CET
November 3: Qualifying
17:00 local | 13:00 GMT | 14:00 CET
November 4: Race
17:00 local | 13:00 GMT | 14:00 CET

  

Free Practice 1 Results

Free practice 1
Driver Teams Time
1 LC Hamilton (GBR) McLaren 1'43.285
2 J Button (GBR) McLaren 1'43.618
3 S Vettel (GER) Red Bull 1'44.050
4 F Alonso (ESP) Ferrari 1'44.366
5 M Webber (AUS) Red Bull 1'44.542
6 M Schumacher (GER) Mercedes 1'44.694
7 P Maldonado (VEN) Williams 1'45.115
8 N Rosberg (GER) Mercedes 1'45.194
9 V Bottas (FIN) Williams 1'45.347
10 KM Räikkönen (FIN) Lotus 1'45.422
11 F Massa (BRA) Ferrari 1'45.567
12 N Hülkenberg (GER) Force India 1'45.587
13 K Kobayashi (JPN) Sauber 1'45.722
14 R Grosjean (FRA) Lotus 1'45.743
15 J Bianchi (FRA) Force India 1'45.769
16 S Perez (MEX) Sauber 1'45.811
17 D Ricciardo (AUS) Toro Rosso 1'46.649
18 JE Vergne (FRA) Toro Rosso 1'46.708
19 H Kovalainen (FIN) Caterham 1'47.418
20 T Glock (GER) Marussia 1'47.891
21 PM de la Rosa (ESP) HRT 1'48.354
22 M Chilton (GBR) Marussia 1'48.887
23 M Qing Hua (CHN) HRT 1'50.487
24 G van der Garde (NED) Caterham

     



Free practice 2 Results

Pos Driver Team Time
1 Vettel GER Red Bull 1'41.751
2 Hamilton GBR McLaren 1'41.919
3 Button GBR McLaren 1'42.412
4 Webber AUS Red Bull 1'42.466
5 Grosjean FRA Lotus 1'42.500
6 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 1'42.532
7 Alonso ESP Ferrari 1'42.587
8 Massa BRA Ferrari 1'42.823
9 Maldonado VEN Williams 1'42.998
10 Perez MEX Sauber 1'43.106
11 Senna BRA Williams 1'43.191
12 Rosberg GER Mercedes 1'43.200
13 Hülkenberg GER Force India 1'43.255
14 Schumacher GER Mercedes 1'43.267
15 di Resta GBR Force India 1'43.578
16 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 1'43.689
17 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 1'44.260
18 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 1'45.073
19 Petrov RUS Caterham 1'45.245
20 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 1'45.782
21 Glock GER Marussia 1'46.589
22 Pic FRA Marussia 1'46.671
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 1'46.707
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 1'47.406

[Edited 2012-11-02 10:44:24 by SA7700]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2468 times:

Free practice 2 Results

Pos Driver Team Time
1 Vettel GER Red Bull 1'41.751
2 Hamilton GBR McLaren 1'41.919
3 Button GBR McLaren 1'42.412
4 Webber AUS Red Bull 1'42.466
5 Grosjean FRA Lotus 1'42.500
6 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 1'42.532
7 Alonso ESP Ferrari 1'42.587
8 Massa BRA Ferrari 1'42.823
9 Maldonado VEN Williams 1'42.998
10 Perez MEX Sauber 1'43.106
11 Senna BRA Williams 1'43.191
12 Rosberg GER Mercedes 1'43.200
13 Hülkenberg GER Force India 1'43.255
14 Schumacher GER Mercedes 1'43.267
15 di Resta GBR Force India 1'43.578
16 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 1'43.689
17 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 1'44.260
18 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 1'45.073
19 Petrov RUS Caterham 1'45.245
20 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 1'45.782
21 Glock GER Marussia 1'46.589
22 Pic FRA Marussia 1'46.671
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 1'46.707
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 1'47.406

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 2):
Free practice 2 Results

I see that the much hated "finger boy" is on top! Congrats to Sebastian Vettel, well on his way to a thrid and very well deserved championship.      

(Full Disclosure: yes, huge Vettel fan here!).

If these practice times are indicative of true race pace (lately they have been), then Alonso is in a spot of trouble if he has to challenge both McLarens and the Lotus machines in addition to the Red Bull chassis. Amazing how a season with 7 different winners in the first 7 contests has developed into a rather predictable affair...granted, I don't mind seeing SV win, but a bit more competition is always appreciated.


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
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Quoting Charles79 (Reply 3):
I see that the much hated "finger boy" is on top! Congrats to Sebastian Vettel, well on his way to a thrid and very well deserved championship.

  

Abu Dhabi is also a track where overtaking is extremely difficult, so whoever gets pole will have an advantage.

C'mon Sebastian!    



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2398 times:
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Great to see the Uropeen open wheel dudes turn out in Abu Dhabi to provide support races for the Orstralian V8 heros 

Seriously I think having the V8s race in AbuDhabi is a crime and will contribute to the beginning of the end of the series as we know it!(happened to IndyCar)

Having said that I think Yas Marina, Bahrain and a hand full of other locations have no place on the F1 calendar either.

Maybe I am some kind of iconoclast or perhaps a romantic dreamer but I fear the days of actually having races in locations where the fans actually attend and show some interest may be behind us.

The newly retired idiot that ran V8s wouldn't have races at Sydney Motorsport park becuase he claims spectators won't turn up... in Abu Dhabi he could get them all to the track in the same Taxi... I know the F1 race is better attended, they would need a bus for that one!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2380 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 4):
Maybe I am some kind of iconoclast or perhaps a romantic dreamer but I fear the days of actually having races in locations where the fans actually attend and show some interest may be behind us.

  

Likewise. Unfortunately, F1 has become too much of a business rather than a sport. It's a shame that grands prix seem to be going to the highest bidder rather than the best attended and best watched tracks.

Someone needs to tell Bernie that that's not a good way of increasing the popularity of F1.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2370 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 5):
F1 has become too much of a business rather than a sport.

As have V8SC, which is why next weekend I will be attending the Historic Sandown event, the Tasman revival meeting at SMP(Eastern Creek) 2 weeks later and whilst in March next year I will attend the AGP at Albert Park I will most certainly gain much more enjoyment from the Classic Phillip Island meeting on the preceding weekend.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2367 times:

Seb's Newey-Bull has brake problems. He was out only for the last couple laps during FP3.
Let's see who will make pole later @ qualiifyings.
McLaren or Red Bull. Hammy? Jenson? Seb? It will be on a razor's edge.

Free practice 3 Results.

Pos Driver Team Laps
1 Hamilton GBR McLaren 18 in pits
2 Button GBR McLaren 17 on track
3 Vettel GER Red Bull 7 on track
4 Webber AUS Red Bull 18 on track
5 Hülkenberg GER Force India 18 on track
6 Grosjean FRA Lotus 18 in pits
7 Maldonado VEN Williams 19 in pits
8 Alonso ESP Ferrari 15 on track
9 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 22 on track
10 di Resta GBR Force India 19 in pits
11 Massa BRA Ferrari 17 in pits
12 Perez MEX Sauber 19 on track
13 Rosberg GER Mercedes 20 on track
14 Schumacher GER Mercedes 18 on track
15 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 21 on track
16 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 17 on track
17 Senna BRA Williams 19 in pits
18 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 18 on track
19 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 21 on track
20 Glock GER Marussia 19 in pits
21 Pic FRA Marussia 18 on track
22 Petrov RUS Caterham 22 in pits
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 20 in pits
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 22 in pits

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

Qualifying 1

Pos Driver Team Laps
1 Vettel GER Red Bull 6 in pits
2 Webber AUS Red Bull 6 in pits
3 Button GBR McLaren 7 in pits
4 Hamilton GBR McLaren 5 in pits
5 Alonso ESP Ferrari 7 in pits
6 Massa BRA Ferrari 7 in pits
7 Schumacher GER Mercedes 8 in pits
8 Rosberg GER Mercedes 8 in pits
9 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 8 in pits
10 Grosjean FRA Lotus 11 in pits
11 di Resta GBR Force India 9 in pits
12 Hülkenberg GER Force India 10 in pits
13 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 10 in pits
14 Perez MEX Sauber 9 in pits
15 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 8 in pits
16 Maldonado VEN Williams 10 in pits
17 Senna BRA Williams 10 in pits


18 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 9 in pits
19 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 11 in pits
20 Pic FRA Marussia 10 in pits
21 Petrov RUS Caterham 11 in pits
22 Glock GER Marussia 9 in pits
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 8 in pits
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 9 in pits

S. Perez and B. Senna are under steward investigation.
I forgot to mention... the grandstands are rather empty. All of them...

    


Qualifying 2

Pos Driver Team Laps
1 Vettel GER Red Bull 10 in pits
2 Webber AUS Red Bull 11 in pits
3 Button GBR McLaren 14 in pits
4 Hamilton GBR McLaren 10 in pits
5 Alonso ESP Ferrari 11 in pits
6 Massa BRA Ferrari 13 in pits
7 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 14 in pits
8 Grosjean FRA Lotus 18 in pits
9 Rosberg GER Mercedes 14 in pits
10 Maldonado VEN Williams 18 in pits

11 Hülkenberg GER Force India 16 in pits
12 Perez MEX Sauber 17 in pits
13 di Resta GBR Force India 16 in pits
14 Schumacher GER Mercedes 14 in pits
15 Senna BRA Williams 18 in pits
16 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 17 in pits
17 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 14 in pits
18 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 9 in pits
19 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 11 in pits
20 Pic FRA Marussia 10 in pits
21 Petrov RUS Caterham 11 in pits
22 Glock GER Marussia 9 in pits
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 8 in pits
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 9 in pits

Two Saubers and two Force India are out.
The grandstands may be empty but the Paddock Club Hospitality (F1 for the mega-rich) are full.

    


Seb's Newey-Bull stopped on the track under the hotel. Wondering why.
He is not looking happy. They don't yet know what the problem is. Looks serious.
Could be fuel, gearbox, engine... he could take a penalty.

Grosjean is under investigation - incident with Alonso.

Hammy takes pole!

Qualifying 3 - Grid

Pos Driver Team Time
1 Hamilton GBR McLaren 1'40.630
2 Webber AUS Red Bull 1'40.978
3 Vettel GER Red Bull 1'41.073
4 Maldonado VEN Williams 1'41.226
5 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 1'41.260
6 Button GBR McLaren 1'41.290
7 Alonso ESP Ferrari 1'41.582
8 Rosberg GER Mercedes 1'41.603
9 Massa BRA Ferrari 1'41.723
10 Grosjean FRA Lotus 1'41.778
11 Hülkenberg GER Force India 1'42.019
12 Perez MEX Sauber 1'42.084
13 di Resta GBR Force India 1'42.218
14 Schumacher GER Mercedes 1'42.289
15 Senna BRA Williams 1'42.330
16 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 1'42.606
17 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 1'42.765
18 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 1'44.058
19 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 1'44.956
20 Pic FRA Marussia 1'45.089
21 Petrov RUS Caterham 1'45.151
22 Glock GER Marussia 1'45.426
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 1'45.766
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 1'46.382

 airplane   cheerful 

[Edited 2012-11-03 07:10:06]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

A bit of a shocker, Vettel going to the back of the grid after being DQ'd for having to little fuel. He'll make up the places, but Alonso needs to get out front and put places between them.

I might actually tune in for that race.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 9):
A bit of a shocker, Vettel going to the back of the grid after being DQ'd for having to little fuel. He'll make up the places, but Alonso needs to get out front and put places between them.

I had no time to look at the latest Abu Dhabi updates.

So... his stop under the hotel (it was Renault asking him to stop not Newey/Bull) was because he had too little fuel not because of any engine/alternator problem?

This is one I never expected, even less that he would be retrograded all the way to the back of the grid. It is a shocker indeed. I was thinking he might have his title secured as Alonso is going to be starting from 7th place.

Let's see how it goes for Seb tomorrow. He did not look happy during the 3 men post race interview There was something different in his look. He did not know what the problem was and why they asked him to stop the car so now he knows.

I doubt he will catch up all these places to his first row place... Vettel in the back generally stays in the back but maybe a miracle will happen and he can win the race... though I doubt it. Alonso must be a happy bunny and I would think Hammy and Jenson are too. Not too sure about Mark Webber. I don't see him winning tomorrow.

I think the race will be interesting. Let's see if GrosJean crashes into anyone or into a wall. LOLOLOL
For once we will not have the usual pattern. Seb will be in the back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20193545

              



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2287 times:
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Red Bull have decided to start Vettel from pit row as this will allow changes to the car otherwise not allowed under parc ferme. There is a loophole that needs to be closed and soon.
You break a rule and gain a technical advantage..convince me that is right!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2284 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 11):
Red Bull have decided to start Vettel from pit row as this will allow changes to the car

Would they change the engine?
Could they (either Renault or NeweyBull) not see from telemetry results that he did not have enough fuel in the tank for sampling?
This whole thing is strange. How come they decide to start him from the pit lane if not for wanting to make changes to the car?

    



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2273 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 12):
Could they (either Renault or NeweyBull) not see from telemetry results that he did not have enough fuel in the tank for sampling?
This whole thing is strange. How come they decide to start him from the pit lane if not for wanting to make changes to the car?

I don't know if they updated it, but the BBC article you linked gives the answer. The team stopped him because they could spot a problem with the fuel cell, which they are allowed to do under the rules, and the stewarts accepted that. But when the car was returned to the paddock, it was found to have less than the mandatory litre of fuel left, which was why the penalty was imposed.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2271 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 13):
But when the car was returned to the paddock, it was found to have less than the mandatory litre of fuel left, which was why the penalty was imposed.

Yes I am surprised they did not detect the too little fuel problem before the final lap from the telemetry readings.

     Wow!  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12466 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2247 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 10):
This is one I never expected, even less that he would be retrograded all the way to the back of the grid. It is a shocker indeed.

Why not? It's the same punishment that Hamilton got for the same offence.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 11):
There is a loophole that needs to be closed and soon.
You break a rule and gain a technical advantage..convince me that is right!

No, it's clearly wrong.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2193 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 15):
No, it's clearly wrong.

It gets even better....

Quoting Autosport:
A statement issued by the FIA a few hours ahead of the race revealed that Red Bull has replaced the gearbox of the car, made changes to the suspension and had also fitted new gear ratios to those submitted after second practice.

This does mean he will receive a grid drop penalty at the next race...doesn't it?
In fact it should be at least 5 places for the ratio change and 5 places if the Gearbox is outside the allowed change window... looking forward to how this farce plays out!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2188 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 16):
It gets even better....

I am looking at the overnight parc fermé rules
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/ru...sporting_regulations/8685/fia.html

A lot of changes/improvements on the cars are allowed under parc fermé.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2184 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 17):
A lot of changes/improvements on the cars are allowed under parc fermé.


Well they aren't really, they are allowed if you don't qualify and are not required to abide by parc ferme rules.

But after a DQ for breaking rules that is an issue.

Gear ratio changes after P2 call for a 5 position penalty, that had better be applied at the next round.
A gearbox change for a gearbox not used 5 times is also a 5 place penalty!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3912 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2130 times:

The penalties are applied to the next race - ie, this one, because the changes are made prior to the race.

I've got no problems with that, as the same rules are available for everyone - if you want to change the car setup, you can if you elect to take the penalties associated with that, in other words go to the back of the grid. The fact that he's already at the back is neither here nor there.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2107 times:

Thank you all for this entertaining race with so much action!
My favourite of the season! That was some F1 today!

Seb started from the pit lane waaay back and finishes third - on the podium.
Good Seb! Congrats!

Congrats to Kimi for the win. I thought Alonso would pass him right at the end - but he didn't.

F1 2012: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix results

Pos Driver No. Team Laps Last five Pits Best (Laps) Worst (Laps)
1 Kimi Räikkönen FIN 9 Lotus 55 1-1-1-1-1 1 1 (33) 4 (1)
2 Fernando Alonso ESP 5 Ferrari 55 2-2-2-2-2 1 2 (25) 7 (2)
3 Sebastian Vettel FL GER 1 Red Bull 55 3-3-3-3-4 2 2 (6) 24 (1)
4 Jenson Button GBR 3 McLaren 55 4-4-4-4-3 1 2 (2) 6 (19)
5 Pastor Maldonado VEN 18 Williams 55 5-5-5-5-5 1 2 (1) 11 (1)
6 Kamui Kobayashi JPN 14 Sauber 55 6-6-6-6-6 1 6 (17) 15 (1)
7 Felipe Massa BRA 6 Ferrari 55 7-7-7-7-7 1 5 (1) 15 (2)
8 Bruno Senna BRA 19 Williams 55 8-8-8-8-8 1 5 (2) 21 (1)
9 Paul di Resta GBR 11 Force India 55 9-9-9-9-9 3 5 (1) 23 (6)
10 Daniel Ricciardo AUS 16 Toro Rosso 55 10-10-10-10-10 2 10 (16) 16 (3)
11 Michael Schumacher GER 7 Mercedes 55 11-11-11-11-11 2 7 (3) 16 (1)
12 Jean-Éric Vergne FRA 17 Toro Rosso 55 12-12-12-12-12 2 5 (1) 17 (1)
13 Heikki Kovalainen FIN 20 Caterham 55 13-13-13-13-13 1 12 (8) 18 (1)
14 Timo Glock GER 24 Marussia 55 14-14-14-14-14 1 13 (1) 21 (1)
15 Sergio Perez MEX 15 Sauber 55 15-16-16-16-17 3 4 (2) 17 (7)
16 Vitaly Petrov RUS 21 Caterham 55 16-15-15-15-15 1 15 (13) 20 (1)
17 Pedro de la Rosa ESP 22 HRT 55 17-17-17-17-16 1 16 (7) 23 (1)
Retirement
Charles Pic FRA 25 Marussia 42 18-17-17-17-17 2 16 (2) 20 (6)
Mark Webber AUS 2 Red Bull 37 20-8-8-8-9 1 2 (1) 20 (1)
Romain Grosjean FRA 10 Lotus 37 19-5-5-6-6 2 5 (2) 22 (6)
Lewis Hamilton GBR 4 McLaren 19 21-1-1-1-1 0 1 (19) 21 (1)
Nico Rosberg GER 8 Mercedes 7 21-23-21-21-21 1 7 (1) 23 (1)
Narain Karthikeyan IND 23 HRT 7 19-22-19-19-19 0 19 (7) 23 (1)
Nico Hülkenberg GER 12 Force India 0 24-10 0 10 (1) 24 (1)

              



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5689 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1970 times:
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Quoting moo (Reply 19):
I've got no problems with that, as the same rules are available for everyone - if you want to change the car setup, you can if you elect to take the penalties associated with that, in other words go to the back of the grid. The fact that he's already at the back is neither here nor there.

That is not how it is supposed to work.
He received a penalty THEN made more transgressions.

Might technically be within the letter of some persons interpretation of the rules, doesn't make it less wrong!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3912 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1971 times:

It's fully within *any* reasonable interpretation of the current rules, and it doesn't make it wrong at all.

User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1971 times:

BUT IT'S EVIL VETTEL!!!1

And when evil Vettel is at work, even something as mundane as "you can get your car out of parc ferme whenever you want" becomes an evil conspiracy!


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2604 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1971 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 11):
Red Bull have decided to start Vettel from pit row as this will allow changes to the car otherwise not allowed under parc ferme. There is a loophole that needs to be closed and soon.
You break a rule and gain a technical advantage..convince me that is right!

He didn't stop because he ran out of fuel (although that was found to be the case later), he stopped because there was an issue with the car. The stewards accepted that explanation, and that's good enough for me.

The fact that he was sent to the back of the grid for not having enough fuel is another matter. The penalty for finishing qualifying without enough fuel left in the tank to provide a sample is that the driver starts from the back of the grid. The penalty for changing the car setup under parc ferme conditions is that the driver starts from the back of the grid. Both penalties were duly taken, notwithstanding the fact that the penalties are exactly the same.

Quoting moo (Reply 19):
I've got no problems with that, as the same rules are available for everyone - if you want to change the car setup, you can if you elect to take the penalties associated with that, in other words go to the back of the grid. The fact that he's already at the back is neither here nor there.

  

Quoting moo (Reply 22):
It's fully within *any* reasonable interpretation of the current rules, and it doesn't make it wrong at all.

  



Boeing 777 fanboy
25 sudden : Rernault saw on the telemtri that fuel was too low and asked the team to stop the car! Even the team didn't know why at first. Race control decided t
26 Post contains links and images GrahamHill : I'm not sure where to post that, so I post it here. A week ago, Red Bull released a 360-degree on-board video camera during an event in Sweden. This i
27 Post contains images MadameConcorde : "It was incredible how he came up. He must be the luckiest driver in F1." - Hamilton on Vettel
28 moo : Cheat? What tosh. RB stopped the car on the track due to a warning from Renault - as you note, they didn't know why. The stewards accepted that expla
29 Bill142 : How does a fuel cell become I accessible and why would Renault pick that up? Unless it imploded there no reason the FIA couldn't have gotten it out u
30 stealthz : I will be the first to admit, I am no fan of Seb but that is not my issue, my complaint would stand who ever the driver or which ever team. Understan
31 moo : "claptrap"? More tosh from someone who doesn't care about what actually happened, so long as they can get a good bash out of it. All the engine manuf
32 racko : They are not allowed to remove body work under parc ferme.
33 stealthz : Actually up until three and a half hours after qualifying they are. The issue is that the fuel sample must be obtainable without removing any bodywor
34 CXB77L : I don't agree. But hell, I don't like the Parc Ferme rule in the first place. "Back in my day" teams would build a car specifically set up for qualif
35 sudden : I assume your reffering to the 90's where they even ran engines that were spec. just for quali. aaand they did not find the explanation good enough i
36 moo : Uhm, what? Which particular race weekend were you following, a fantasy one? The stewards found no issue with RB and Renaults explanation for stopping
37 Bill142 : Do you have evidence other than what Christian Horner said? Listening to Christian Horner proclaim RBRs innocence is like listening to Craig Thompson
38 moo : The only evidence he needs is the fact that the stewards disqualified Vettel for failing to provide a fuel sample, not for failing to return to the p
39 Post contains links Bill142 : So it turns out there was no issue with the car and the 'issue' Renault detected was the car running out of fuel. http://www.autosport.com/news/report
40 sudden : Moo and CXB77L, you were saying???[Edited 2012-11-07 02:34:37]
41 Bill142 : That sound you're hearing. It's humble pie being eaten.
42 scbriml : If something on the car is broken, then they should be able to fix it (and take the relevant punishment). What I, and others, find "wrong" is that th
43 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : This is a pictures collection from my friend Rita Xiumè. She just came back from at the race in Abu Dhabi. She is an inveterate Schumi fan but you wi
44 Bill142 : I never said they cheated. I just said they pushed the limits too far. Isn't pushing the limit what F1 is all about? As for the luck.. Vettel had a l
45 sudden : I stick to my point that if they would not have changed the ratio of 7th gear it would not have been that easy. And he would never been able to catch
46 InsideMan : really? hated? What gives? Too successful? not wrong, just the rules applicable to everyone. Given the choice between starting from pole or starting
47 sudden : As they opted to not start from the grid, this allowed them to work around the rule regarding the setup of the car. Pretty simple really.
48 Bill142 : Obviously pole is better. But why should you be allowed to change your setup after you've broken the rules?
49 sudden : "You just hate Vettel. Leave the poor kid alone. Your so unfair!"
50 InsideMan : if you quote me, quote me completely.... There is no benefit starting from the box instead of starting from pole....
51 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : A new team principal for Caterham Frenchman Cyril Abiteboul, 35, was appointed chief executive officer in September and will move up to his new role w
52 stealthz : No there isn't but a rules infraction gave them that option, of starting from pit lane and a loophole in the regs allowwed them to make changes that
53 Bill142 : Kid's don't say the F word on the podium.
54 sudden : Or the B word for that matter. That DC had to apologise on behalf of Vettel is a shame.
55 CXB77L : Oh come off it! It's not as if he was using that word as an insult. He was using it in the context of, well ... "getting it all wrong". "Bloody" is n
56 Post contains links sudden : Even so teams have been warned by FIA, and rightfully so me think; http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104131
57 sudden : I find it highly amusing to see how little 7 world titles means regarding a successful comeback. Look at Raikkonen who simply wiped the floor with Sch
58 moo : You just have to look at the evolution of F1 rules since Schumacher retired first time around - Ferrari lost basically all of the advantages that unl
59 sudden : His main issue was that he could not get the tires to work in his favour. Which he said himself even. But still, even in the 2 years Kimi went away t
60 moo : But in general the testing and major technical limitations haven't really changed in Kimis absence (I'm talking about step changes - I accept that th
61 sudden : Which has been clearly shown since his return.
62 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : A bit unrelated but still on topic. Want to buy yourself one of Jenson Button's F1 cars for Christmas? You will need to find an engine for it. F1 BAR
63 Post contains links Tupolev160 : By the way, Bernie recently got married: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4505966/.html
64 ltbewr : Unfortunately this is so true as to the USA. There was a major fight between 2 competitive drivers and their support staffs in their 'garage' area in
65 mad99 : Not at all. From the moment he stepped on the scene he was impressive, just look at his first weekend with Jordan. I'm not a fan and i think you'll s
66 sudden : In that case Kimi's return should have been just as big of a failure as Schumi's. He's is simply not his old himself anymore. Blaming the tires and s
67 Bill142 : And Schumachers success was down to good circumstances rather than good driving. A bit like another German in F1 at the moment.
68 stealthz : And reports are surfacing that they are once again flapping wings!
69 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Not unrelated and quite on topic. Want to buy a Formula 1 Team? HRT are looking for new owners. HRT owners Thesan expect to sell team 'in coming weeks
70 Post contains links sudden : Villeneuve deserves a freakin' medal as this is so spot on!!! http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104210
71 Bill142 : It is exactly what I've been saying for years.
72 sudden : And nothing has changed either
73 stealthz : And I agree, hell everyone here knows I am no great fan of the young German but all those things JV said about Seb could have been said about Alonso
74 Post contains images CXB77L : Far be it from me to defend Schumacher as I can't stand the guy, but that's just ridiculous. Schumacher is an extremely talented driver - I say "is"
75 Longhornmaniac : Are we going to get an F1 2012: United States Grand Prix thread anytime soon?! The race is in 4 days!!! Cheers, Cameron
76 Bill142 : Well for a long time there the second driver at Ferrari was really only there to make up the numbers.
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