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F1 2012: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix  
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2624 times:

Abu Dhabi F1 2012 Grand Prix

Yas Marina Circuit
Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

Circuit Length 5.554kms
55 laps
Circuit Turns 21
Circuit Direction anti-clockwise
Capacity 50,000
Established 2009
Designer Hermann Tilke

November 2: Free practice 1
November 2: Free practice 2
17:00 local | 13:00 GMT | 14:00 CET
November 3: Free practice 3
14:00 local | 10:00 GMT | 11:00 CET
November 3: Qualifying
17:00 local | 13:00 GMT | 14:00 CET
November 4: Race
17:00 local | 13:00 GMT | 14:00 CET

  

Free Practice 1 Results

Free practice 1
Driver Teams Time
1 LC Hamilton (GBR) McLaren 1'43.285
2 J Button (GBR) McLaren 1'43.618
3 S Vettel (GER) Red Bull 1'44.050
4 F Alonso (ESP) Ferrari 1'44.366
5 M Webber (AUS) Red Bull 1'44.542
6 M Schumacher (GER) Mercedes 1'44.694
7 P Maldonado (VEN) Williams 1'45.115
8 N Rosberg (GER) Mercedes 1'45.194
9 V Bottas (FIN) Williams 1'45.347
10 KM Räikkönen (FIN) Lotus 1'45.422
11 F Massa (BRA) Ferrari 1'45.567
12 N Hülkenberg (GER) Force India 1'45.587
13 K Kobayashi (JPN) Sauber 1'45.722
14 R Grosjean (FRA) Lotus 1'45.743
15 J Bianchi (FRA) Force India 1'45.769
16 S Perez (MEX) Sauber 1'45.811
17 D Ricciardo (AUS) Toro Rosso 1'46.649
18 JE Vergne (FRA) Toro Rosso 1'46.708
19 H Kovalainen (FIN) Caterham 1'47.418
20 T Glock (GER) Marussia 1'47.891
21 PM de la Rosa (ESP) HRT 1'48.354
22 M Chilton (GBR) Marussia 1'48.887
23 M Qing Hua (CHN) HRT 1'50.487
24 G van der Garde (NED) Caterham

     



Free practice 2 Results

Pos Driver Team Time
1 Vettel GER Red Bull 1'41.751
2 Hamilton GBR McLaren 1'41.919
3 Button GBR McLaren 1'42.412
4 Webber AUS Red Bull 1'42.466
5 Grosjean FRA Lotus 1'42.500
6 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 1'42.532
7 Alonso ESP Ferrari 1'42.587
8 Massa BRA Ferrari 1'42.823
9 Maldonado VEN Williams 1'42.998
10 Perez MEX Sauber 1'43.106
11 Senna BRA Williams 1'43.191
12 Rosberg GER Mercedes 1'43.200
13 Hülkenberg GER Force India 1'43.255
14 Schumacher GER Mercedes 1'43.267
15 di Resta GBR Force India 1'43.578
16 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 1'43.689
17 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 1'44.260
18 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 1'45.073
19 Petrov RUS Caterham 1'45.245
20 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 1'45.782
21 Glock GER Marussia 1'46.589
22 Pic FRA Marussia 1'46.671
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 1'46.707
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 1'47.406

[Edited 2012-11-02 10:44:24 by SA7700]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2590 times:

Free practice 2 Results

Pos Driver Team Time
1 Vettel GER Red Bull 1'41.751
2 Hamilton GBR McLaren 1'41.919
3 Button GBR McLaren 1'42.412
4 Webber AUS Red Bull 1'42.466
5 Grosjean FRA Lotus 1'42.500
6 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 1'42.532
7 Alonso ESP Ferrari 1'42.587
8 Massa BRA Ferrari 1'42.823
9 Maldonado VEN Williams 1'42.998
10 Perez MEX Sauber 1'43.106
11 Senna BRA Williams 1'43.191
12 Rosberg GER Mercedes 1'43.200
13 Hülkenberg GER Force India 1'43.255
14 Schumacher GER Mercedes 1'43.267
15 di Resta GBR Force India 1'43.578
16 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 1'43.689
17 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 1'44.260
18 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 1'45.073
19 Petrov RUS Caterham 1'45.245
20 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 1'45.782
21 Glock GER Marussia 1'46.589
22 Pic FRA Marussia 1'46.671
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 1'46.707
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 1'47.406

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2577 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 2):
Free practice 2 Results

I see that the much hated "finger boy" is on top! Congrats to Sebastian Vettel, well on his way to a thrid and very well deserved championship.      

(Full Disclosure: yes, huge Vettel fan here!).

If these practice times are indicative of true race pace (lately they have been), then Alonso is in a spot of trouble if he has to challenge both McLarens and the Lotus machines in addition to the Red Bull chassis. Amazing how a season with 7 different winners in the first 7 contests has developed into a rather predictable affair...granted, I don't mind seeing SV win, but a bit more competition is always appreciated.


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2693 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2569 times:
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Quoting Charles79 (Reply 3):
I see that the much hated "finger boy" is on top! Congrats to Sebastian Vettel, well on his way to a thrid and very well deserved championship.

  

Abu Dhabi is also a track where overtaking is extremely difficult, so whoever gets pole will have an advantage.

C'mon Sebastian!    



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2520 times:
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Great to see the Uropeen open wheel dudes turn out in Abu Dhabi to provide support races for the Orstralian V8 heros 

Seriously I think having the V8s race in AbuDhabi is a crime and will contribute to the beginning of the end of the series as we know it!(happened to IndyCar)

Having said that I think Yas Marina, Bahrain and a hand full of other locations have no place on the F1 calendar either.

Maybe I am some kind of iconoclast or perhaps a romantic dreamer but I fear the days of actually having races in locations where the fans actually attend and show some interest may be behind us.

The newly retired idiot that ran V8s wouldn't have races at Sydney Motorsport park becuase he claims spectators won't turn up... in Abu Dhabi he could get them all to the track in the same Taxi... I know the F1 race is better attended, they would need a bus for that one!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2693 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2502 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 4):
Maybe I am some kind of iconoclast or perhaps a romantic dreamer but I fear the days of actually having races in locations where the fans actually attend and show some interest may be behind us.

  

Likewise. Unfortunately, F1 has become too much of a business rather than a sport. It's a shame that grands prix seem to be going to the highest bidder rather than the best attended and best watched tracks.

Someone needs to tell Bernie that that's not a good way of increasing the popularity of F1.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2492 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 5):
F1 has become too much of a business rather than a sport.

As have V8SC, which is why next weekend I will be attending the Historic Sandown event, the Tasman revival meeting at SMP(Eastern Creek) 2 weeks later and whilst in March next year I will attend the AGP at Albert Park I will most certainly gain much more enjoyment from the Classic Phillip Island meeting on the preceding weekend.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2489 times:

Seb's Newey-Bull has brake problems. He was out only for the last couple laps during FP3.
Let's see who will make pole later @ qualiifyings.
McLaren or Red Bull. Hammy? Jenson? Seb? It will be on a razor's edge.

Free practice 3 Results.

Pos Driver Team Laps
1 Hamilton GBR McLaren 18 in pits
2 Button GBR McLaren 17 on track
3 Vettel GER Red Bull 7 on track
4 Webber AUS Red Bull 18 on track
5 Hülkenberg GER Force India 18 on track
6 Grosjean FRA Lotus 18 in pits
7 Maldonado VEN Williams 19 in pits
8 Alonso ESP Ferrari 15 on track
9 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 22 on track
10 di Resta GBR Force India 19 in pits
11 Massa BRA Ferrari 17 in pits
12 Perez MEX Sauber 19 on track
13 Rosberg GER Mercedes 20 on track
14 Schumacher GER Mercedes 18 on track
15 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 21 on track
16 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 17 on track
17 Senna BRA Williams 19 in pits
18 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 18 on track
19 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 21 on track
20 Glock GER Marussia 19 in pits
21 Pic FRA Marussia 18 on track
22 Petrov RUS Caterham 22 in pits
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 20 in pits
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 22 in pits

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

Qualifying 1

Pos Driver Team Laps
1 Vettel GER Red Bull 6 in pits
2 Webber AUS Red Bull 6 in pits
3 Button GBR McLaren 7 in pits
4 Hamilton GBR McLaren 5 in pits
5 Alonso ESP Ferrari 7 in pits
6 Massa BRA Ferrari 7 in pits
7 Schumacher GER Mercedes 8 in pits
8 Rosberg GER Mercedes 8 in pits
9 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 8 in pits
10 Grosjean FRA Lotus 11 in pits
11 di Resta GBR Force India 9 in pits
12 Hülkenberg GER Force India 10 in pits
13 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 10 in pits
14 Perez MEX Sauber 9 in pits
15 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 8 in pits
16 Maldonado VEN Williams 10 in pits
17 Senna BRA Williams 10 in pits


18 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 9 in pits
19 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 11 in pits
20 Pic FRA Marussia 10 in pits
21 Petrov RUS Caterham 11 in pits
22 Glock GER Marussia 9 in pits
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 8 in pits
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 9 in pits

S. Perez and B. Senna are under steward investigation.
I forgot to mention... the grandstands are rather empty. All of them...

    


Qualifying 2

Pos Driver Team Laps
1 Vettel GER Red Bull 10 in pits
2 Webber AUS Red Bull 11 in pits
3 Button GBR McLaren 14 in pits
4 Hamilton GBR McLaren 10 in pits
5 Alonso ESP Ferrari 11 in pits
6 Massa BRA Ferrari 13 in pits
7 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 14 in pits
8 Grosjean FRA Lotus 18 in pits
9 Rosberg GER Mercedes 14 in pits
10 Maldonado VEN Williams 18 in pits

11 Hülkenberg GER Force India 16 in pits
12 Perez MEX Sauber 17 in pits
13 di Resta GBR Force India 16 in pits
14 Schumacher GER Mercedes 14 in pits
15 Senna BRA Williams 18 in pits
16 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 17 in pits
17 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 14 in pits
18 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 9 in pits
19 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 11 in pits
20 Pic FRA Marussia 10 in pits
21 Petrov RUS Caterham 11 in pits
22 Glock GER Marussia 9 in pits
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 8 in pits
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 9 in pits

Two Saubers and two Force India are out.
The grandstands may be empty but the Paddock Club Hospitality (F1 for the mega-rich) are full.

    


Seb's Newey-Bull stopped on the track under the hotel. Wondering why.
He is not looking happy. They don't yet know what the problem is. Looks serious.
Could be fuel, gearbox, engine... he could take a penalty.

Grosjean is under investigation - incident with Alonso.

Hammy takes pole!

Qualifying 3 - Grid

Pos Driver Team Time
1 Hamilton GBR McLaren 1'40.630
2 Webber AUS Red Bull 1'40.978
3 Vettel GER Red Bull 1'41.073
4 Maldonado VEN Williams 1'41.226
5 Räikkönen FIN Lotus 1'41.260
6 Button GBR McLaren 1'41.290
7 Alonso ESP Ferrari 1'41.582
8 Rosberg GER Mercedes 1'41.603
9 Massa BRA Ferrari 1'41.723
10 Grosjean FRA Lotus 1'41.778
11 Hülkenberg GER Force India 1'42.019
12 Perez MEX Sauber 1'42.084
13 di Resta GBR Force India 1'42.218
14 Schumacher GER Mercedes 1'42.289
15 Senna BRA Williams 1'42.330
16 Kobayashi JPN Sauber 1'42.606
17 Ricciardo AUS Toro Rosso 1'42.765
18 Vergne FRA Toro Rosso 1'44.058
19 Kovalainen FIN Caterham 1'44.956
20 Pic FRA Marussia 1'45.089
21 Petrov RUS Caterham 1'45.151
22 Glock GER Marussia 1'45.426
23 de la Rosa ESP HRT 1'45.766
24 Karthikeyan IND HRT 1'46.382

 airplane   cheerful 

[Edited 2012-11-03 07:10:06]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently onlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2416 times:

A bit of a shocker, Vettel going to the back of the grid after being DQ'd for having to little fuel. He'll make up the places, but Alonso needs to get out front and put places between them.

I might actually tune in for that race.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 9):
A bit of a shocker, Vettel going to the back of the grid after being DQ'd for having to little fuel. He'll make up the places, but Alonso needs to get out front and put places between them.

I had no time to look at the latest Abu Dhabi updates.

So... his stop under the hotel (it was Renault asking him to stop not Newey/Bull) was because he had too little fuel not because of any engine/alternator problem?

This is one I never expected, even less that he would be retrograded all the way to the back of the grid. It is a shocker indeed. I was thinking he might have his title secured as Alonso is going to be starting from 7th place.

Let's see how it goes for Seb tomorrow. He did not look happy during the 3 men post race interview There was something different in his look. He did not know what the problem was and why they asked him to stop the car so now he knows.

I doubt he will catch up all these places to his first row place... Vettel in the back generally stays in the back but maybe a miracle will happen and he can win the race... though I doubt it. Alonso must be a happy bunny and I would think Hammy and Jenson are too. Not too sure about Mark Webber. I don't see him winning tomorrow.

I think the race will be interesting. Let's see if GrosJean crashes into anyone or into a wall. LOLOLOL
For once we will not have the usual pattern. Seb will be in the back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20193545

              



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2409 times:
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Red Bull have decided to start Vettel from pit row as this will allow changes to the car otherwise not allowed under parc ferme. There is a loophole that needs to be closed and soon.
You break a rule and gain a technical advantage..convince me that is right!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2406 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 11):
Red Bull have decided to start Vettel from pit row as this will allow changes to the car

Would they change the engine?
Could they (either Renault or NeweyBull) not see from telemetry results that he did not have enough fuel in the tank for sampling?
This whole thing is strange. How come they decide to start him from the pit lane if not for wanting to make changes to the car?

    



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently onlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6054 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 12):
Could they (either Renault or NeweyBull) not see from telemetry results that he did not have enough fuel in the tank for sampling?
This whole thing is strange. How come they decide to start him from the pit lane if not for wanting to make changes to the car?

I don't know if they updated it, but the BBC article you linked gives the answer. The team stopped him because they could spot a problem with the fuel cell, which they are allowed to do under the rules, and the stewarts accepted that. But when the car was returned to the paddock, it was found to have less than the mandatory litre of fuel left, which was why the penalty was imposed.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2393 times:

Quoting CPH-R (Reply 13):
But when the car was returned to the paddock, it was found to have less than the mandatory litre of fuel left, which was why the penalty was imposed.

Yes I am surprised they did not detect the too little fuel problem before the final lap from the telemetry readings.

     Wow!  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12868 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2369 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 10):
This is one I never expected, even less that he would be retrograded all the way to the back of the grid. It is a shocker indeed.

Why not? It's the same punishment that Hamilton got for the same offence.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 11):
There is a loophole that needs to be closed and soon.
You break a rule and gain a technical advantage..convince me that is right!

No, it's clearly wrong.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2315 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 15):
No, it's clearly wrong.

It gets even better....

Quoting Autosport:
A statement issued by the FIA a few hours ahead of the race revealed that Red Bull has replaced the gearbox of the car, made changes to the suspension and had also fitted new gear ratios to those submitted after second practice.

This does mean he will receive a grid drop penalty at the next race...doesn't it?
In fact it should be at least 5 places for the ratio change and 5 places if the Gearbox is outside the allowed change window... looking forward to how this farce plays out!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2310 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 16):
It gets even better....

I am looking at the overnight parc fermé rules
http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/ru...sporting_regulations/8685/fia.html

A lot of changes/improvements on the cars are allowed under parc fermé.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2306 times:
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Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 17):
A lot of changes/improvements on the cars are allowed under parc fermé.


Well they aren't really, they are allowed if you don't qualify and are not required to abide by parc ferme rules.

But after a DQ for breaking rules that is an issue.

Gear ratio changes after P2 call for a 5 position penalty, that had better be applied at the next round.
A gearbox change for a gearbox not used 5 times is also a 5 place penalty!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4087 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2252 times:

The penalties are applied to the next race - ie, this one, because the changes are made prior to the race.

I've got no problems with that, as the same rules are available for everyone - if you want to change the car setup, you can if you elect to take the penalties associated with that, in other words go to the back of the grid. The fact that he's already at the back is neither here nor there.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

Thank you all for this entertaining race with so much action!
My favourite of the season! That was some F1 today!

Seb started from the pit lane waaay back and finishes third - on the podium.
Good Seb! Congrats!

Congrats to Kimi for the win. I thought Alonso would pass him right at the end - but he didn't.

F1 2012: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix results

Pos Driver No. Team Laps Last five Pits Best (Laps) Worst (Laps)
1 Kimi Räikkönen FIN 9 Lotus 55 1-1-1-1-1 1 1 (33) 4 (1)
2 Fernando Alonso ESP 5 Ferrari 55 2-2-2-2-2 1 2 (25) 7 (2)
3 Sebastian Vettel FL GER 1 Red Bull 55 3-3-3-3-4 2 2 (6) 24 (1)
4 Jenson Button GBR 3 McLaren 55 4-4-4-4-3 1 2 (2) 6 (19)
5 Pastor Maldonado VEN 18 Williams 55 5-5-5-5-5 1 2 (1) 11 (1)
6 Kamui Kobayashi JPN 14 Sauber 55 6-6-6-6-6 1 6 (17) 15 (1)
7 Felipe Massa BRA 6 Ferrari 55 7-7-7-7-7 1 5 (1) 15 (2)
8 Bruno Senna BRA 19 Williams 55 8-8-8-8-8 1 5 (2) 21 (1)
9 Paul di Resta GBR 11 Force India 55 9-9-9-9-9 3 5 (1) 23 (6)
10 Daniel Ricciardo AUS 16 Toro Rosso 55 10-10-10-10-10 2 10 (16) 16 (3)
11 Michael Schumacher GER 7 Mercedes 55 11-11-11-11-11 2 7 (3) 16 (1)
12 Jean-Éric Vergne FRA 17 Toro Rosso 55 12-12-12-12-12 2 5 (1) 17 (1)
13 Heikki Kovalainen FIN 20 Caterham 55 13-13-13-13-13 1 12 (8) 18 (1)
14 Timo Glock GER 24 Marussia 55 14-14-14-14-14 1 13 (1) 21 (1)
15 Sergio Perez MEX 15 Sauber 55 15-16-16-16-17 3 4 (2) 17 (7)
16 Vitaly Petrov RUS 21 Caterham 55 16-15-15-15-15 1 15 (13) 20 (1)
17 Pedro de la Rosa ESP 22 HRT 55 17-17-17-17-16 1 16 (7) 23 (1)
Retirement
Charles Pic FRA 25 Marussia 42 18-17-17-17-17 2 16 (2) 20 (6)
Mark Webber AUS 2 Red Bull 37 20-8-8-8-9 1 2 (1) 20 (1)
Romain Grosjean FRA 10 Lotus 37 19-5-5-6-6 2 5 (2) 22 (6)
Lewis Hamilton GBR 4 McLaren 19 21-1-1-1-1 0 1 (19) 21 (1)
Nico Rosberg GER 8 Mercedes 7 21-23-21-21-21 1 7 (1) 23 (1)
Narain Karthikeyan IND 23 HRT 7 19-22-19-19-19 0 19 (7) 23 (1)
Nico Hülkenberg GER 12 Force India 0 24-10 0 10 (1) 24 (1)

              



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2092 times:
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Quoting moo (Reply 19):
I've got no problems with that, as the same rules are available for everyone - if you want to change the car setup, you can if you elect to take the penalties associated with that, in other words go to the back of the grid. The fact that he's already at the back is neither here nor there.

That is not how it is supposed to work.
He received a penalty THEN made more transgressions.

Might technically be within the letter of some persons interpretation of the rules, doesn't make it less wrong!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4087 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2093 times:

It's fully within *any* reasonable interpretation of the current rules, and it doesn't make it wrong at all.

User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2093 times:

BUT IT'S EVIL VETTEL!!!1

And when evil Vettel is at work, even something as mundane as "you can get your car out of parc ferme whenever you want" becomes an evil conspiracy!


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2693 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2093 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 11):
Red Bull have decided to start Vettel from pit row as this will allow changes to the car otherwise not allowed under parc ferme. There is a loophole that needs to be closed and soon.
You break a rule and gain a technical advantage..convince me that is right!

He didn't stop because he ran out of fuel (although that was found to be the case later), he stopped because there was an issue with the car. The stewards accepted that explanation, and that's good enough for me.

The fact that he was sent to the back of the grid for not having enough fuel is another matter. The penalty for finishing qualifying without enough fuel left in the tank to provide a sample is that the driver starts from the back of the grid. The penalty for changing the car setup under parc ferme conditions is that the driver starts from the back of the grid. Both penalties were duly taken, notwithstanding the fact that the penalties are exactly the same.

Quoting moo (Reply 19):
I've got no problems with that, as the same rules are available for everyone - if you want to change the car setup, you can if you elect to take the penalties associated with that, in other words go to the back of the grid. The fact that he's already at the back is neither here nor there.

  

Quoting moo (Reply 22):
It's fully within *any* reasonable interpretation of the current rules, and it doesn't make it wrong at all.

  



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 24):
he stopped because there was an issue with the car. The stewards accepted that explanation, and that's good enough for me.

Rernault saw on the telemtri that fuel was too low and asked the team to stop the car! Even the team didn't know why at first. Race control decided to look in to this matter further, and voila, RBR made another attempt to cheat.

To be able alter car setup like this is just wrong. No matter if it's Vettel or anyone else, this rule needs to be tightened up.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2134 times:

I'm not sure where to post that, so I post it here. A week ago, Red Bull released a 360-degree on-board video camera during an event in Sweden. This is quite nice  http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...eleases-360-degree-on-board-video/

Oh, and congrats to Kimi for his win in Abu Dhabi. It's only well deserved for someone who's been constantly in the points this year. Overall, this is a great come back for him!



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2167 times:

"It was incredible how he came up. He must be the luckiest driver in F1." - Hamilton on Vettel

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4087 posts, RR: 4
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2165 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 25):
Race control decided to look in to this matter further, and voila, RBR made another attempt to cheat.

Cheat? What tosh.

RB stopped the car on the track due to a warning from Renault - as you note, they didn't know why. The stewards accepted that explanation. Vettel was disqualified because he was still required to supply a 1ltr fuel sample, which they could not - both RB and Renault have said that the required fuel was in the car, but it was inaccessible due to the fuel cell issue that Renault detected in Q3, and as the rules state that the fuel sample must be taken without any disassembly of the car then the fuel was unavailable to be tested.

Through back channels I have heard that the issue detected was a pressurisation failure in the fuel cell - a seal had failed and air was getting into the fuel tank, restricting the ability for the fuel pump to uptake fuel and also preventing fuel from being pumped out by the invigilators for the fuel test (as that requires a sealed unit).

But some people love to make outrageous claims without any ability to back them up...


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2161 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 28):

How does a fuel cell become I accessible and why would Renault pick that up? Unless it imploded there no reason the FIA couldn't have gotten it out unless it simply wasn't there. You can believe whatever clap trap RBR and Renault feed you but the truth is they pushed the limit and went to far. Then through a loophole in the rules managed to gain a benefit from it. But then a lot it Vettels rivals taking each other out made his day substantially easier.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2159 times:
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Quoting racko (Reply 23):
BUT AND Irtysh-Avia (Kazakhstan)">IT'S EVIL VETTEL!!!1

I will be the first to admit, I am no fan of Seb but that is not my issue, my complaint would stand who ever the driver or which ever team.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 24):
He didn't stop because he ran out of fuel (although that was found to be the case later), he stopped because there was an issue with the car. The stewards accepted that explanation, and that's good enough for me.

The fact that he was sent to the back of the grid for not having enough fuel is another matter. The penalty for finishing qualifying without enough fuel left in the tank to provide a sample is that the driver starts from the back of the grid. The penalty for changing the car setup under parc ferme conditions is that the driver starts from the back of the grid. Both penalties were duly taken, notwithstanding the fact that the penalties are exactly the same.

Understand completely the circumstances around the initial stoppage and the subsequent free pass from the stewards, understand why the DQ due to inability to supply a fuel sample.

My issue is rules that allow you to "commit" offences that would require significant penalties with impunity,

Allowing you to remove the compromises that are inevetibly made to balance qualifying and race conditions.

A fairer rule would be that in the case of DQ the car MUST remain in parc ferme AND start at the rear of the grid.

As I said this is not an anti RBR or SV rant, I just think there is a gap in the rules, Fixed by a simple one line amendment.


On a brighter note I wish the race was a little longer... would not have been long before KR told his engineer to "shut the f%^k up!!"



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4087 posts, RR: 4
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 29):

"claptrap"? More tosh from someone who doesn't care about what actually happened, so long as they can get a good bash out of it.

All the engine manufacturers have their own telemetry on the cars, and they will be measuring engine specific things in huge depth - fuel flow, fuel richness, pump cavitations and vibrations, back pressures on the fuel pumps etc etc. lots of scope for detecting an issue where the team itself might not.

The FIA Technical Regulations for 2012 cover fuel sampling under section 6.6 - 6.6.3 and 6.6.4 cover restrictions on how the fuel sample can be taken, and the car cannot be disassembled to allow the sample to be taken, so if the fuel cell is compromised and the pump can't extract the fuel then the team violates 6.6.2.

I've already explained how the fuel cell can "become inaccessible" to both the FIA and cause irregularities in the engine, so it doesn't matter that it's actually there - the FIA won't ever try to get to the fuel cell, that's not their job.


User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 29):
How does a fuel cell become I accessible and why would Renault pick that up? Unless it imploded there no reason the FIA couldn't have gotten it out unless it simply wasn't there. You can believe whatever clap trap RBR and Renault feed you but the truth is they pushed the limit and went to far.

They are not allowed to remove body work under parc ferme.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2153 times:
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Quoting racko (Reply 32):
They are not allowed to remove body work under parc ferme.

Actually up until three and a half hours after qualifying they are.
The issue is that the fuel sample must be obtainable without removing any bodywork.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2693 posts, RR: 5
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2125 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting sudden (Reply 25):
To be able alter car setup like this is just wrong. No matter if it's Vettel or anyone else, this rule needs to be tightened up.

I don't agree. But hell, I don't like the Parc Ferme rule in the first place. "Back in my day" teams would build a car specifically set up for qualifying with tyres specifically designed to last no more than three laps and just enough fuel to do those three laps, then strip and rebuild the car to set it up for the race. That way, it allowed teams that struggled through qualifying for whatever reason to come back on song during the race.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 29):
You can believe whatever clap trap RBR and Renault feed you but the truth is they pushed the limit and went to far.

What evidence do you have to back up that statement? Do you have evidence to contradict RBR and Renault's explanation to the stewards, which, I might add, the stewards accepted was true?

Quoting stealthz (Reply 30):
My issue is rules that allow you to "commit" offences that would require significant penalties with impunity,

Allowing you to remove the compromises that are inevetibly made to balance qualifying and race conditions.

I don't agree that it's an issue. Ordinarily, if a driver has a technical issue, the team is entitled to change the car, which would incur a penalty. Vettel's problem wasn't an issue that was within the team's control, so I fail to see why his car should be in Parc Ferme. If that had occurred, then Vettel would go into the race with the same issue which would almost guarantee his retirement from the race on the first lap.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 34):
"Back in my day" teams would build a car specifically set up for qualifying with tyres specifically designed to last no more than three laps and just enough fuel to do those three laps, then strip and rebuild the car to set it up for the race. That way, it allowed teams that struggled through qualifying for whatever reason to come back on song during the race.

I assume your reffering to the 90's where they even ran engines that were spec. just for quali.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 34):
What evidence do you have to back up that statement? Do you have evidence to contradict RBR and Renault's explanation to the stewards, which, I might add, the stewards accepted was true?

aaand they did not find the explanation good enough in the end as they decided to look deeper in to it. For a valid reason I would say. RBR have pulled stunts before so rightfully the stewards did good.
Some people thinks that RBR is gods gift to F1.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4087 posts, RR: 4
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 35):
aaand they did not find the explanation good enough in the end as they decided to look deeper in to it. For a valid reason I would say. RBR have pulled stunts before so rightfully the stewards did good.

Uhm, what? Which particular race weekend were you following, a fantasy one?

The stewards found no issue with RB and Renaults explanation for stopping on track, they did however find them in breach later of failing to supply a fuel sample under 6.6.2. They didn't decide to "look deeper", they just took the fuel sample they were entitled to take as normal (fuel samples are taken from all Q3 cars, and tested at random).

And while you are continually on RBs case, constantly claiming they have "pulled stunts before", you seem to be completely overlooking the illegal cars Ferrari, McLaren et al have all run in the past (and in several cases, especially Ferrari, have got away with it) - why do you seem to think RB is such a special case that you need to highlight it in every F1 thread? What's your issue?


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 34):
What evidence do you have to back up that statement? Do you have evidence to contradict RBR and Renault's explanation to the stewards, which, I might add, the stewards accepted was true?

Do you have evidence other than what Christian Horner said?

Listening to Christian Horner proclaim RBRs innocence is like listening to Craig Thompson.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 34):
I don't agree that it's an issue. Ordinarily, if a driver has a technical issue, the team is entitled to change the car, which would incur a penalty. Vettel's problem wasn't an issue that was within the team's control, so I fail to see why his car should be in Parc Ferme. If that had occurred, then Vettel would go into the race with the same issue which would almost guarantee his retirement from the race on the first lap.


I think you missed the point. Why should anyone be allowed to change their setup if they're excluded from Qualifying? No one is disputing allowing of repairs to be carried out.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4087 posts, RR: 4
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 38):
Do you have evidence other than what Christian Horner said?

The only evidence he needs is the fact that the stewards disqualified Vettel for failing to provide a fuel sample, not for failing to return to the pits under his own power. If the stewards had found issue with RBs explanation they would have DQ Vettel for the latter instead of the former - just as they did for Hamilton at the Spanish GP (he was DQ for failing to return to the pits).


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

So it turns out there was no issue with the car and the 'issue' Renault detected was the car running out of fuel.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104089

Apparently it was the Robots fault.


User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2127 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 40):
So it turns out there was no issue with the car and the 'issue' Renault detected was the car running out of fuel.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104089

Apparently it was the Robots fault.

Moo and CXB77L, you were saying???

[Edited 2012-11-07 02:34:37]


When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2129 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 41):
Moo and CXB77L, you were saying???

That sound you're hearing. It's humble pie being eaten.


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12868 posts, RR: 46
Reply 42, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2123 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 34):
I don't agree that it's an issue.

If something on the car is broken, then they should be able to fix it (and take the relevant punishment). What I, and others, find "wrong" is that the team can completely change anything on the car. RBR were already punished for not being able to provide 1L of fuel. They then had a free ride to change the car with no further punishment available.

It's not cheating, it's working within the rules. That doesn't mean the rules are correct.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 43, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

This is a pictures collection from my friend Rita Xiumè. She just came back from at the race in Abu Dhabi.

She is an inveterate Schumi fan but you will get to spot other drivers too. What a great way to see everything that goes on in Schumi's garage. Lots of great pictures here.

http://s1269.beta.photobucket.com/us...itaxium/library/Abu%20Dhabi%202012

She will be travelling to the last race of the season in Sao Paulo as this will be Schumi's last Formula 1 race. Rita is a true die hard Schumi fan if there is one.

              

[Edited 2012-11-07 06:11:36]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 44, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 47):
Either way, it's not the team "cheating" or "trying to get away" with anything, it was a fault that could occur with any team, at any time. What were you saying in earlier threads about "luck"? This, right here, is a stroke of bad luck, nothing more.

I never said they cheated. I just said they pushed the limits too far. Isn't pushing the limit what F1 is all about?

As for the luck.. Vettel had a lot of it with his main rivals taking themselves out, meaning he only had to carry out actual passes on cars that were substantially slower. The hardest pass he had all day was on Button who, for some reason, he assumed would just get out of his way.


User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 45, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 46):
meaning he only had to carry out actual passes on cars that were substantially slower.

I stick to my point that if they would not have changed the ratio of 7th gear it would not have been that easy. And he would never been able to catch Button even.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineInsideMan From Vatican City, joined Aug 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 2):
see that the much hated "finger boy"

really? hated? What gives? Too successful?

Quoting stealthz (Reply 21):
Might technically be within the letter of some persons interpretation of the rules, doesn't make it less wrong!

not wrong, just the rules applicable to everyone.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 29):
Then through a loophole in the rules managed to gain a benefit from it.

Given the choice between starting from pole or starting out of the box and being able to change your car, I'm sure everyone would prefer the pole, so how is this a benefit???


User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 47, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 48):
so how is this a benefit???

As they opted to not start from the grid, this allowed them to work around the rule regarding the setup of the car. Pretty simple really.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 48, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

Quoting InsideMan (Reply 48):
Given the choice between starting from pole or starting out of the box and being able to change your car, I'm sure everyone would prefer the pole, so how is this a benefit???

Obviously pole is better. But why should you be allowed to change your setup after you've broken the rules?


User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 49, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 50):
But why should you be allowed to change your setup after you've broken the rules?

"You just hate Vettel. Leave the poor kid alone. Your so unfair!"



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineInsideMan From Vatican City, joined Aug 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2110 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 49):
Quoting InsideMan (Reply 48):
so how is this a benefit???

As they opted to not start from the grid, this allowed them to work around the rule regarding the setup of the car. Pretty simple really.

if you quote me, quote me completely....
There is no benefit starting from the box instead of starting from pole....


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 51, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2106 times:

A new team principal for Caterham

Frenchman Cyril Abiteboul, 35, was appointed chief executive officer in September and will move up to his new role with immediate effect.
He is former deputy chairman of Renault Sport, Caterham's engine supplier.
Fernandes, who also owns the Queens Park Rangers football club, will remain as owner, along with business partner ‪Dato Kamarudin Meranun.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20249334

     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 52, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2127 times:
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Quoting sudden (Reply 41):
Quoting InsideMan (Reply 50):
There is no benefit starting from the box instead of starting from pole....

No there isn't but a rules infraction gave them that option, of starting from pit lane and a loophole in the regs allowwed them to make changes that would normally attract a penalty, helping to minimise the "damage" of the first infraction.

I am not hating on RBR or SV I just think that is wrong. I would think it wrongwho ever it applied to.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 53, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2127 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 49):
"You just hate Vettel. Leave the poor kid alone. Your so unfair!"

Kid's don't say the F word on the podium.


User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 54, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 53):
Kid's don't say the F word on the podium.

Or the B word for that matter. That DC had to apologise on behalf of Vettel is a shame.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2693 posts, RR: 5
Reply 55, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2126 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 53):
Kid's don't say the F word on the podium.

Oh come off it! It's not as if he was using that word as an insult. He was using it in the context of, well ... "getting it all wrong".

Quoting sudden (Reply 54):
Or the B word for that matter

"Bloody" is not an obscenity, it is an adjective which he chose to use to describe how quick his car was.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 56, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 55):
Oh come off it! It's not as if he was using that word as an insult. He was using it in the context of, well ... "getting it all wrong".

Even so teams have been warned by FIA, and rightfully so me think;
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104131



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 57, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

I find it highly amusing to see how little 7 world titles means regarding a successful comeback.
Look at Raikkonen who simply wiped the floor with Schumi this year. And this was Raikkonen's first year of his comeback.
They should have fired his a$$ already at the end of last season. That way they might have been able to fight for 4th place in the constructors championship.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4087 posts, RR: 4
Reply 58, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 57):
I find it highly amusing to see how little 7 world titles means regarding a successful comeback.

You just have to look at the evolution of F1 rules since Schumacher retired first time around - Ferrari lost basically all of the advantages that unlimited time, effort and money brought to the sport and its shown in their performances ever since. Schumacher returned to F1 with it being a completely different sport - and he couldn't adapt to the restrictions on testing and performance that had been introduced in his absence (or were gradually phased in up to his retirement).


User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 59, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 58):
Schumacher returned to F1 with it being a completely different sport - and he couldn't adapt to the restrictions on testing and performance that had been introduced in his absence (or were gradually phased in up to his retirement).

His main issue was that he could not get the tires to work in his favour. Which he said himself even.
But still, even in the 2 years Kimi went away there were lots of changes regarding tires and restrictions.

My point is basically that all the positive hype around Schumi was far from justified.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4087 posts, RR: 4
Reply 60, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 59):
2 years Kimi went away there were lots of changes regarding tires and restrictions.

But in general the testing and major technical limitations haven't really changed in Kimis absence (I'm talking about step changes - I accept that there are rule changes, but not the step change of "you can do unlimited testing whenever you want" to "now you get three test periods at the start of the season, thats it. Good luck with that.")

Quoting sudden (Reply 59):
My point is basically that all the positive hype around Schumi was far from justified.

And my point was that Schumachers main plus point was Ferraris unlimited budget and ability to do whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted, for however long they wanted to do it for. Take a car out and do 1000 laps just to test a new gearbox? Fine, done.

Take that away and Schumacher is a fairly average driver.


User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 61, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 60):
Take that away and Schumacher is a fairly average driver.

Which has been clearly shown since his return.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 62, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2122 times:

A bit unrelated but still on topic.

Want to buy yourself one of Jenson Button's F1 cars for Christmas?

You will need to find an engine for it.

F1 BAR HONDA RACING SHOW CAR JENSON BUTTON

THIS CAR WAS PURCHASED DIRECT FROM HONDA AND WAS THIER 2003 JENSON BUTTONS SHOW DISPLAY CAR

more here:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/F1-BAR-HON...Memorabilia_ET&hash=item3f1ebc0b26

              



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineTupolev160 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 63, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

By the way, Bernie recently got married:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4505966/.html


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13193 posts, RR: 15
Reply 64, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2116 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 56):
Quoting CXB77L (Reply 55):Oh come off it! It's not as if he was using that word as an insult. He was using it in the context of, well ... "getting it all wrong".Even so teams have been warned by FIA, and rightfully so me think;http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104131

Unfortunately this is so true as to the USA. There was a major fight between 2 competitive drivers and their support staffs in their 'garage' area in yesterday's NASCAR Sprint Car race in Phoenix, AZ after a top driver (Jeff Gordon) caused a wreck and comments at a non-televised press conference on it using fowl linage by the top points ranked driver (Brad Keselowski) got a notice from NASCAR officials (although fined $25K for having a mobile phone in his car and using it in his car during a stoppage in the race after a crash). Jeff Gordon was fined $100 K and docked 25 championship points, his owner and crew chief also penalized with probation for his intentional crashing of another high ranked driver. Of course in the heat of battle, the wrecking of a couple $100K in race cars, maybe losing a couple million in prize money or end of season payout, many drivers and others are likely to use language that is offensive. Problem is that Abu Dubai is a socially conservative country so using foul language is not a good idea there and sponsors, don't want to cause offense to their consumers, so while you need to allow emotions by drivers they should not step over the line in using offensive language. Today too many have smartphone and instant access to the internet that can record photos and audio of any dumb actions and they are out to the world in minutes.

I wonder if Schumi shouldn't have come back. A 2 years absence is like a lifetime in F1 with it's constant changes, especially if not active in other forms of car racing. He could have left a great, at the top of his career rather than make a weak comeback.

One question I have not seen the answer to: who leads the F1 standings ?


User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2113 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 60):
Schumacher is a fairly average driver.

Not at all. From the moment he stepped on the scene he was impressive, just look at his first weekend with Jordan.

I'm not a fan and i think you'll see that in most "top 20 f1 drivers" polls he's never No.1, more like number 7 or so.

Anyway, looking forward to the us gp, looks like a interesting track and if Fernando holds off Vettel it will be a super final race.


User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 66, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 64):
I wonder if Schumi shouldn't have come back. A 2 years absence is like a lifetime in F1 with it's constant changes

In that case Kimi's return should have been just as big of a failure as Schumi's. He's is simply not his old himself anymore. Blaming the tires and so forth was just a bad excuse for a driver who was not up for the freakin' challenge. Period!

Quoting mad99 (Reply 65):
Not at all. From the moment he stepped on the scene he was impressive, just look at his first weekend with Jordan.

Oh geez, tune in to the right channel will you! That was like ages ago, and none of that plays any part in his return as of late.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 67, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 66):
Oh geez, tune in to the right channel will you! That was like ages ago, and none of that plays any part in his return as of late.

And Schumachers success was down to good circumstances rather than good driving. A bit like another German in F1 at the moment.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 68, posted (2 years 1 month 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2109 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 69):
But Red Bull gives you wings.

And reports are surfacing that they are once again flapping wings!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10930 posts, RR: 37
Reply 69, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

Not unrelated and quite on topic.

Want to buy a Formula 1 Team? HRT are looking for new owners.

HRT owners Thesan expect to sell team 'in coming weeks'
The HRT Formula One team is looking for new owners having been put up for sale by Thesan Capital.
Back-of-the-grid Formula 1 team HRT have been put up for sale by their Spanish owners.
Private equity firm Thesan Capital bought HRT last summer and this year moved it to new headquarters in Madrid.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20302796

                    



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 70, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Villeneuve deserves a freakin' medal as this is so spot on!!!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104210



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 71, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 70):

It is exactly what I've been saying for years.


User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 72, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2098 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 71):
It is exactly what I've been saying for years.

And nothing has changed either



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 73, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2093 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 71):
It is exactly what I've been saying for years.

And I agree, hell everyone here knows I am no great fan of the young German but all those things JV said about Seb could have been said about Alonso up until fairly recently. ( If I recall I may have said it more than once)

FA has matured into what might one day be called a a great driver, SV might but he still has some growing up to do!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2693 posts, RR: 5
Reply 74, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2095 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting sudden (Reply 59):
My point is basically that all the positive hype around Schumi was far from justified.

Far be it from me to defend Schumacher as I can't stand the guy, but that's just ridiculous. Schumacher is an extremely talented driver - I say "is" because talent doesn't just disappear, although age might hinder one's reflexes and performances. He isn't F1's most statistically successful driver for nothing ...

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 64):
One question I have not seen the answer to: who leads the F1 standings ?

Vettel.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 67):
And Schumachers success was down to good circumstances rather than good driving. A bit like another German in F1 at the moment.

 

You won't find many people agreeing with you. Schumacher is one of the most talented drivers in F1. A pity his sportsmanship sucks, but that's beside the point. He didn't get to become a 7 times world champion due to 'good circumstances'.

Quoting sudden (Reply 70):
Villeneuve deserves a freakin' medal as this is so spot on!!!

I'm a big fan of Jacques Villeneuve. He's my favourite driver of all time. But he's also one of the most outspoken F1 drivers - not that it's a bad thing, mind you, that's what I like about him.

I disagree with him this time. I think the fact that Vettel has withstood the pressure of a championship battle once before in 2010. Right now, we are also having a championship battle which Vettel is involved in. There's the pressure of winning three titles in a row - something that's only been done twice in F1, by Fangio and Schumacher. If he pulls it off, not only does it show his maturity beyond his years in being able to withstand the pressure of a prolonged battle fo the championship, but it also cements his spot as one of F1's all time greats.

Only Fangio and Schumacher have won three (or more) titles in a row. If all goes well, Vettel will join them, at the tender age of 25, about the same age as Villeneuve was when he started in F1.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3355 posts, RR: 45
Reply 75, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2092 times:

Are we going to get an F1 2012: United States Grand Prix thread anytime soon?! The race is in 4 days!!!

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 76, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 74):
You won't find many people agreeing with you. Schumacher is one of the most talented drivers in F1. A pity his sportsmanship sucks, but that's beside the point. He didn't get to become a 7 times world champion due to 'good circumstances'.

Well for a long time there the second driver at Ferrari was really only there to make up the numbers.


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