AR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 4848 posts, RR: 27 Posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 364 times:
A few minutes ago The Supreme Tribunal in Spain ratified the figure of "matrimony" for gay couples. This law had been passed in 2005 by the Socialists but the current President, Rajoy, had tried to get the highest court to derogate it. About 22,000 couples had married since then.
I think it´s a great victory for equality of rights (no matter your orientation) and a message to extreme right groups in right wing parties that times are moving forward. Congratulations to Spain
Aesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 4799 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 364 times:
Good thing ! What is the situation for abortion rights ? I know it moved forward under Zapatero.
Here the law for "marriage for all" is under legislative review right now, with the right-wing opposition screaming murder (when it is very well known that most moderates are really in favor of it) and now claiming that if they get back in power they'll scrap the law. As if it was easy to do when that would mean ripping families apart (adoption is part of the law).
They also want a special right allowing mayors not to celebrate these unions (mayors being the only ones that can do it, unless there are special circumstances).
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16830 posts, RR: 57 Reply 3, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 364 times:
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 2): Great stuff, especially for a country with 70% Catholics (and 25% having no religious affiliation)!
Is it that high? A lot of the Spaniards I know (and admittedly I know a skewed sample) say that they've asked the Church to strike them from its rolls (or whatever it's called) but that the Church hasn't been doing it.
Anyway, I get the sense that most Spanish Catholics are mostly Catholic on Easter and Christmas.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 5318 posts, RR: 47 Reply 5, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 364 times:
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4): Anyway, it says that the Church hasn't much authority left.
One of the things I want to see in my lifetime is the Catholic Church embracing gay marriage...
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16830 posts, RR: 57 Reply 6, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 364 times:
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5): One of the things I want to see in my lifetime is the Catholic Church embracing gay marriage...
You won't. There are too many old men stuck in their ways in the hierarchy of the Church. After all, they won't ordain women and women's rights is a far older cause than gay rights.
The heierarchy is meant to move slowly and conservatively. That's why you will never see a young pope. It's just the nature of the Church. It is not a progressive, quickly-evolving religion.
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1292 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 364 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6): The heierarchy is meant to move slowly and conservatively. That's why you will never see a young pope.
That's what I wish for the Catholic church - that they elect a 14 years old pope. At 24, he will surely ask himself what he can change in the world, and where his conscience really lies. I'm sure he won't waste the remaining 65 years of his life, feeling like the guardian of his own luxury prison.
They elected Ratzinger in 2005, as an already 78 years old pope. Being quite liberal as a young theologician, he came to be a conservative and loyal priest in his later years.
You won't see much change with him at the helm.
David
Even a letdown, if it is thoroughly and final, is a step forward.
Aesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 4799 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 364 times:
Many say an old guy was elected because there was no clear winner amongst younger guys, so that left the rest a few more years to find a better candidate.
Officially God chose him of course.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
something From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 24 Reply 9, posted (6 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 364 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 3): Anyway, I get the sense that most Spanish Catholics are mostly Catholic on Easter and Christmas.
Religion in Europe is different from religion in the USA. When someone is catholic, it usually means not more than they have an imaginary friend. No one is actually taking the bible seriously, would go as far as denying evolution etc. Obviously most of Europe's social mores derive directly from its religious past but religion in 2012 does not really exist as an organized cult anymore. It's more ''private relationships with a higher power'', if you will.
Still, Spain is a fairly conservative country. Conservative for European standards.
Quoting Aesma (Reply 1): Good thing ! What is the situation for abortion rights ? I know it moved forward under Zapatero.
I was under the impression that Spain had the most liberal abortion laws in Europe, allowing abortions up to the 5th month of pregnancy. Most other European countries draw the line at the 3rd.
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5): One of the things I want to see in my lifetime is the Catholic Church embracing gay marriage...
One step at a time. As of now, they dismiss the idea of condoms even.
JJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1624 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 365 times:
Quoting AR385 (Thread starter): A few minutes ago The Supreme Tribunal in Spain ratified the figure of "matrimony" for gay couples.
Homosexual civil unions were never in question, what the Supreme Court ratified is that it can be defined as "marriage" just like the usual man-woman unions.
They were in favour of calling them something like civil unions rather than marriage.
Quoting Aesma (Reply 1): Here the law for "marriage for all" is under legislative review right now, with the right-wing opposition screaming murder (when it is very well known that most moderates are really in favor of it) and now claiming that if they get back in power they'll scrap the law. As if it was easy to do when that would mean ripping families apart (adoption is part of the law).
Here they did not even wait for that, as soon as the law was passed, they contested it in court.
Aesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 4799 posts, RR: 9 Reply 12, posted (6 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 363 times:
Quoting mad99 (Reply 10): You think this is a good thing?
Yes.
I just checked and the law is basically the same we have had in France since the 70's. 14 weeks (12 + 2) for an elective abortion, after that it's only allowed for health reasons. Before that abortion were already practiced in Spain but with an extreme degree of hypocrisy, since it was allowed for the well being of the mother, so a woman had to pretend having the child would harm her mentally.
Quoting JJJ (Reply 11): Here they did not even wait for that, as soon as the law was passed, they contested it in court.
It may happen here too (the law just passed government approval today) but I'm sure its proponents will be very careful about making the law constitutional, so the constitutional court will probably let it pass after a few days at most.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
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