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Puerto Rico On The Road To Statehood  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

While it is totally unfortunate that Obama won the presidential election, it looks like Puerto Rico is on the road to statehood as of the current results:
http://www.uticaod.com/latestnews/x2...es-on-US-ties-and-chooses-governor

Currently on the first part of the referendum, 53% have voted not to keep the current status with the United States. On the second part of the referendum, 65% have voted for statehood, vs. 31% for nationhood in free association with the U.S., and 4% for total independence.

So, here are two possibilities of what the star section on our next American Flag could look like:


[Edited 2012-11-06 21:33:50]

[Edited 2012-11-06 21:35:19]


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57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7279 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

What benefits would Puerto Rico give the rest of the country? From the little I know of the PR there is high unemployment and high crime. No way Republicans want PR in too. Does this go to congress to decide?


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 1):
What benefits would Puerto Rico give the rest of the country? From the little I know of the PR there is high unemployment and high crime. No way Republicans want PR in too. Does this go to congress to decide?

Actually, the Republican Party has historically been more supportive of Puerto Rican statehood than Democrats. The pro-commonwealth party in Puerto Rico, the Popular Democratic Party, is officially aligned with the Democratic Party. The pro-statehood party, the New Progressive Party, isn't officially aligned with either party, but historically has been more closely aligned with the Republican Party.

Either way, both Obama and Romney have stated they will support Puerto Rican statehood. Lets see if Obama keeps his word.

[Edited 2012-11-06 21:34:35]


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User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4525 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
So, here are two possibilities of what our next American Flag could look like:

Definitely the first one.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7975 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
So, here are two possibilities of what the star section on our next American Flag could look like:

I like the first one.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
While it is totally unfortunate that Obama won the presidential election, it looks like Puerto Rico is on the road to statehood as of the current results:
Quoting flymia (Reply 1):
Does this go to congress to decide?

All of this goes to congress, and it needs to be ratified by a 3/4th margin. I am guessing this will probably happen in the next 4-8 years.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 2):
The pro-statehood party, the New Progressive Party, isn't officially aligned with either party, but historically has been more closely aligned with the Republican Party.

The current governor is legally a Republican.



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User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4525 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
The current governor is legally a Republican.

The article, however, says that the democratic, anti-statehood candidate for governor is in the lead.

So what happens if the island elects an anti-statehood governor, but the residents vote for statehood?


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 3):
Definitely the first one.

The second one is based on the layout when Wyoming was admitted as a state. Here is the link to an online program that can generate flags up to 100 stars based on historical layouts:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/06/51-to-100-states-of-america-flag.html



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User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6962 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

I read on this referendum a few weeks ago (article was couple months old) and I got the impression it would lead nowhere because there were several choices, but I see I was wrong. It's good to see people choosing their fate, the current colony status can't continue.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 492 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
So, here are two possibilities of what the star section on our next American Flag could look like:

I saw one proposal that had it in a circle.. I wish that would come back as a possibility.
Big version: Width: 410 Height: 216 File size: 10kb


Quoting flymia (Reply 1):
What benefits would Puerto Rico give the rest of the country?

Well they're one of the largest pharmaceutical producers in the world, but other than that I really can't think of anything.. Tourism? I feel like they'll be a Hawaii type state if and when they do join the Union.

EDIT: Found the flag idea

[Edited 2012-11-06 22:11:56]


"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6120 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 8):
Well they're one of the largest pharmaceutical producers in the world, but other than that I really can't think of anything.. Tourism?

Rum!



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 8):
I saw one proposal that had it in a circle.. I wish that would come back as a possibility.

Can anyone take that one and "square" it to the corners of the blue? That could be interesting.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 492 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 9):
Rum!

As a college student that should have been the first thing that came to mind.. I have clearly been awake too long..



"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2581 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

I favour a random positioning of 51 stars. To be changed each fiscal new year.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 12):
I favour a random positioning of 51 stars. To be changed each fiscal new year.

lol

I like the 1st one posted the best as well.

Why does PR have to "bring" anything to us? They are part of us, basically fellow citizens. I hold my arms wide open for them if they want to joins us states. If they wanted to be completely independent, I'd be fine with that. Personally, I hope they become a state  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15841 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
Why does PR have to "bring" anything to us?

No kidding. We took in West Virginia, so we can really never reject anyone for being backwards, third world, and generally useless.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2581 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
lol


No kidding. The Australians are already using my idea.


David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2833 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
We took in West Virginia

I though the Virginians kicked them out of Virginia  
Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 8):

I saw one proposal that had it in a circle.. I wish that would come back as a possibility.

No way. Reeks of European Socialism. I like it straight.  

But seriously, not a fan of the circle.

Quoting flymia (Reply 1):
No way Republicans want PR in too.

The only "Republicans" that would think in such a manner have very swiftly become marginalized over the last 15 or so hours.

Both sides have consistently stated that they would support PR becoming a state, if that's what PR wanted.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15841 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 16):
I though the Virginians kicked them out of Virginia

I'd kick out Virginia too if it wasn't for Norfolk and the Beltway.

I'd propose a trade: dump West Virginia and take on Puerto Rico. We lose a crappy state and don't have to buy new flags, PR gets to become part of the US, and West Virginia won't know the difference.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17829 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 8):
Well they're one of the largest pharmaceutical producers in the world

Were.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):

I'd propose a trade: dump West Virginia and take on Puerto Rico. We lose a crappy state and don't have to buy new flags, PR gets to become part of the US, and West Virginia won't know the difference.

No objections here  



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 16):
Both sides have consistently stated that they would support PR becoming a state, if that's what PR wanted.

And actually as I stated, the Republican Party has actually historically been more in favor of Puerto Rican Statehood. In addition to the party affiliations of the two major parties of Puerto Rico, compare the two 2012 platforms here:

Democratic Party:

Quote:
We commit to moving resolution of the status issue forward with the goal of resolving it expeditiously. If local efforts in Puerto Rico to resolve the status issue do not provide a clear result in the short term, the President should support, and Congress should enact, self-executing legislation that specifies in advance for the people of Puerto Rico a set of clear status options, such as those recommended in the White House Task Force Report on Puerto Rico, which the United States is politically committed to fulfilling.
Republican Party:

Quote:
We support the right of the United States citizens of Puerto Rico to be admitted to the Union as a fully sovereign state after they freely so determine. We recognize that Congress has the final authority to define the constitutionally valid options for Puerto Rico to achieve a permanent non-territorial status with government by consent and full enfranchisement. As long as Puerto Rico is not a state, however, the will of its people regarding their political status should be ascertained by means of a general right of referendum or specific referenda sponsored by the U.S. government.

Judging by these two platforms, the Republican platform seems far more pro-statehood. The Democratic platform IMO doesn't seem to be very pro-statehood at all; it seems to be neutral on the issue. Should Puerto Rico be admitted, the Republican Party will probably make a big push to make Puerto Rico at least a swing state based on their historical pro-statehood stance.

[Edited 2012-11-07 14:49:47]


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User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3697 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

DC should be officially represented (2 Sens. 1 Rep.) in Congress before PR statehood


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6236 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

PR is not going to become a state anytime soon. Please.
Alejandro Garcia Padilla won, (he is the anti-statehood candidate), he and his party have stated this plebiscite will have no impact. This plebiscite was held eventhough Congress never gave the green light for it. The US for the time being will have 50 states, don't get too excited now. Any Puerto Rican (or anyone for that matter) who believes the status of PR will be resolved with this election either has no understanding of politics in PR or is delusional.

Regards,

Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Now is not the time for making Puerto Rico state number 51. Let's get our economic house in order and look before we leap. Many have told me that San Juan away from the beaches and resorts is akin to Detroit, Newark, or Camden NJ with hot weather, palm trees and the ocean nearby. Lets first help our fellow citizens in the Northeast put their lives back together in the aftermath of Frankenstorm Sandy. I'll leave it at that.


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2774 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

zippyjet; Puerto Ricans are our fellow citizens as well. They pay U.S. federal income taxes and their sons register for the draft.

The thing I want to know however is, are there charming, historic, architecturally significant post offices in Puerto Rico?

If not, we must not only not make them a state, but jettison them as a commonwealth as well.

(I like historic post offices, see.)

[Edited 2012-11-07 20:18:45]


Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlinecws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2967 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
I'd propose a trade: dump West Virginia and take on Puerto Rico. We lose a crappy state and don't have to buy new flags, PR gets to become part of the US, and West Virginia won't know the difference.

HAHAHA! This is the post of the year! Well done!!



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User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3697 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

The big problem is that at least 5 states would have to a lose a representative. Probably coming from Big Blue states.


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3379 posts, RR: 8
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

As a Puerto Rican who voted in these elections, here's my take on this:

1. The referendum was never given approval by Congress so I don't think Congress will even move to accept the results.
2. The results show a surprising outcome. While it is true that over 800,000 people voted for statehood, technically, more people voted against it, with 436,000 votes for the Free Associated State and 468,000 blank ballots. Obama has said that if a clear majority votes for statehood, he'll push legislation through Congress. To me, that is not a clear majority.
3. Even if the results are valid by Congress's standards, I don't think it's the right time for the Union to accept another state, especially when there are other more important issues.
4. Many statehood supporters argue that if PR becomes a state it will retain its Olympic delegation (among other events), not pay any further federal taxes (we pay only SS, Medicare, but not federal income tax), and Spanish will remain the main language. I recognize that at the federal level, there is no language, but English is used as de facto, and many here can barely speak with accent. Asking to become a state but having delegations in world events counters the purpose of becoming one in the first place.
5. Many on the mainland believe PR is a tossup. I think that on a Congressional level PR would be a blue state (many if not all of the elected officials have been traditionally Democrats). At the presidential level, we could be considered a leaning Democrat to a tossup. Economically, we're liberal (and judging by the amount of federal aid we get, you can bet people will be overwhelmingly Democrat), but socially, we're conservatives (many oppose gay marriage and let religion guide their daily lives, among other issues).

As for me, I voted to retain the status quo and, should it lose, the free associated state. I have no complaints about our situation and I don't think it's the source of our problems...and I voted for the pro-status quo candidate over the pro-statehood candidate. And, being from the territories, I have no vote in the presidential elections but it's no secret that I would have voted Democrat.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6924 posts, RR: 34
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 27):
4. Many statehood supporters argue that if PR becomes a state it will retain its Olympic delegation (among other events), not pay any further federal taxes (we pay only SS, Medicare, but not federal income tax), and Spanish will remain the main language. I recognize that at the federal level, there is no language, but English is used as de facto, and many here can barely speak with accent. Asking to become a state but having delegations in world events counters the purpose of becoming one in the first place.

Then by those standards it's not and would never be considered a state.


The only reason this would even be a discussion is because Obama wants more Dem voters. This is quite transparent.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3731 posts, RR: 3
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Can somebody explain in simple terms why we would want them as a state?

User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6962 posts, RR: 12
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

The article I mentioned reading earlier did discuss the Spanish/English implications of statehood. I would see that as a major hindrance to statehood indeed.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3731 posts, RR: 3
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2958 times:

I see it as a Greece - EU situation and I really don't see any benefit. In fact, I was hoping they would vote independence but Uncle Sam's teat is too attractive.

User currently offlineLFutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3357 posts, RR: 31
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2957 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
I'd propose a trade: dump West Virginia and take on Puerto Rico. We lose a crappy state and don't have to buy new flags, PR gets to become part of the US, and West Virginia won't know the difference.

I like this idea although hmm substitute Mississippi for West Virginia?

Leo/ORD



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5426 posts, RR: 52
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):

I'd kick out Virginia too if it wasn't for Norfolk and the Beltway.

I'd propose a trade: dump West Virginia and take on Puerto Rico. We lose a crappy state and don't have to buy new flags, PR gets to become part of the US, and West Virginia won't know the difference.

Or perform a merger. One of North Dakota/South Dakota, West Virginia/Virginia, or North Carolina/South Carolina merge into a single unified state. My vote's for the Dakotas!



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 29):
Can somebody explain in simple terms why we would want them as a state?

There's some economic benefit to be had—Puerto Ricans don't pay federal income tax (either personal or corporate), but they receive hundreds of millions in aid and grants from the U.S. The argument goes that statehood would increase prosperity on the island, turning a drain on our finances into a net contributor.

In addition, the U.S. is a republic, not a colonizer, so we shouldn't hold territories. Puerto Ricans hold U.S. passports, so they should (the argument goes) have all the rights and privileges of U.S. citizens, many may only be granted through full statehood.

Those aren't necessarily my views, but the views of those who are in the business of selling statehood to the American people.

More here: http://www.prstatehood.com/issues/index.asp

ETA: I was surprised how easy it would be on our side of things to grant statehood. Simple majorities on a bill in both houses of Congress, then signed by the President. The current 50 states don't have to approve additional statehoods to the Union.

[Edited 2012-11-08 11:54:18]


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User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12898 posts, RR: 46
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2957 times:
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Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
While it is totally unfortunate that Obama won the presidential election

Enjoy!   

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
it looks like Puerto Rico is on the road to statehood as of the current results

Does the GOP really need to increase the Hispanic population?



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2813 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 30):
The article I mentioned reading earlier did discuss the Spanish/English implications of statehood. I would see that as a major hindrance to statehood

Do you remember what these impediments were regarding Spanish/English and statehood? Many other nations face the difficulty of different languages being predominant in different parts of their country, but they make it work.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15841 posts, RR: 27
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

Quoting LFutia (Reply 32):
I like this idea although hmm substitute Mississippi for West Virginia?

Maybe if we can grab Guam or the Virgin Islands we could get rid of both. Part of the point is to not have to buy a new flag, which would just be annoying.

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 33):
Or perform a merger.

West Virginia by another name is still toothless and miserable. In sports it's referred to as addition by subtraction.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2955 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 35):
Does the GOP really need to increase the Hispanic population?

Actually, the GOP has historically been MORE supportive of Puerto Rican statehood than the Dems. As I already posted, if you compare the 2012 platforms of the two parties, the Democratic platform doesn't seem to give a clear response on the issue of statehood for Puerto Rico, while the Republican platform is clearly and obviously pro-statehood. As I stated, the Republican Party will make a massive push to make Puerto Rico at least a swing state based on their historical pro-statehood stance. And also, as stated by another poster, at least five states will have to lose a representative each, and most likely the major blue states will be the ones losing representatives.

[Edited 2012-11-08 12:27:38]


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User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3379 posts, RR: 8
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 34):
ETA: I was surprised how easy it would be on our side of things to grant statehood. Simple majorities on a bill in both houses of Congress, then signed by the President. The current 50 states don't have to approve additional statehoods to the Union.

Correct. When the 1898 war was over and Spain ceded control of PR, Cuba, and the Philippines, it was agreed that Congress would hold the final say on our political status. Congress can just as easily pass a bill granting PR independence and as soon as it is signed, PR would be a fully independent country.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 38):
Actually, the GOP has historically been MORE supportive of Puerto Rican statehood than the Dems.

Maybe in their platform, but in actuality I don't think its any more supportive than Democrats. When you consider that one of the parties is completely affiliated with the Democrats and the other has about a 60/40 Democrat/Republican split, why would the GOP be rooting for PR to become a state?



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6962 posts, RR: 12
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 31):
I see it as a Greece - EU situation and I really don't see any benefit. In fact, I was hoping they would vote independence but Uncle Sam's teat is too attractive.

Greece hadn't been controlled for more than a century by the EU before being allowed to enter the union. And really the problem with Greece is not that it's in the EU, but that it's in the euro. As far as I know the dollar is already the currency of PR and PR has zero influence on the dollar.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 36):
Do you remember what these impediments were regarding Spanish/English and statehood? Many other nations face the difficulty of different languages being predominant in different parts of their country, but they make it work.

Yes, the problem and the difference with the countries you mention (many of which have French as one of those languages, incidentally) is that they have official languages, either nationally, regionally, or both. The US doesn't, bringing in PR might require to review the situation and that is a contentious issue.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 39):
Maybe in their platform, but in actuality I don't think its any more supportive than Democrats. When you consider that one of the parties is completely affiliated with the Democrats and the other has about a 60/40 Democrat/Republican split, why would the GOP be rooting for PR to become a state?

And why would they be lying in their official platform? The GOP would never lie when it comes to such issues. Either way, the big blue states will be required to give up some representation, regardless of how Puerto Rico votes.

Also, if you compare their platforms since 2000:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politi...o#Position_of_US_political_parties

The Republican Party has CONSISTENTLY been more pro-statehood than the Democratic Party. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY they have been lying all this time.

[Edited 2012-11-08 16:44:27]


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User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3731 posts, RR: 3
Reply 42, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2945 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 40):
Greece hadn't been controlled for more than a century by the EU before being allowed to enter the union.

I am comparing to economic status. The GDP per capita of Puerto Rico is 1/3 lower than our poorest state, Mississippi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP


User currently offlineLFutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3357 posts, RR: 31
Reply 43, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2941 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 37):
West Virginia by another name is still toothless and miserable. In sports it's referred to as addition by subtraction.

West Virginia... its where your daddy is your cousin!

Leo/ORD



Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5565 posts, RR: 13
Reply 44, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 37):

   I was on the floor lauging at that one. In the thread on the Christian Right, I proposed letting the Right have Utah and Louisiana as their mecca for fire, brimstone, dogma and hatoraide for alomost everyone else. Here's my idea: Redo the borders of Mississippi and Louisians, let us the USA keep the coastal areas (MSY, Gulfport, Biloxi) and give the rest to the right. They could call their new homeland Fetustopia as a fetus has more capital and street cred than your average female. We could maje WV a big theme park where inbreading, Honey Boo Boo's, and piggy squealing contests contribute to stimulating our GDP. Then we can make Puerto Rico and Guam official bonafide states and I could be in charge of the hottest women contests in both new states. If we got rid of WV, what would our good friend Superfly do when stateside? WV is one of the highest per capita 2 and 4 legged plumpers in the US of A!   



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 45, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2944 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 33):
Or perform a merger. One of North Dakota/South Dakota, West Virginia/Virginia, or North Carolina/South Carolina merge into a single unified state. My vote's for the Dakotas!

Why would you wanna get rid of North Dakota! We have oil! No more need to go overseas!   .

I think we need to kind of figure out what is going to be done with all of these colonies (forgive me if it is the wrong term). Puerto Rico we seem to treat like a de facto state. If they want all the benefits of being a state they should be more than welcome to join the union! But if they still don't want to be a state they should be on their own! No disrespect to the people! They are amazing people, but we have to kind of think, do we need these overseas territories?
Blue



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15841 posts, RR: 27
Reply 46, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2940 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 44):
If we got rid of WV, what would our good friend Superfly do when stateside?

There's still Wisconsin.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3379 posts, RR: 8
Reply 47, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2935 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 41):
The Republican Party has CONSISTENTLY been more pro-statehood than the Democratic Party. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY they have been lying all this time.

Well, it sure hasn't looked like it. Back in 2000 and 2004 Republicans held control of all branches and not once did they even vote to begin the process of self determination for us. In fact, back in 2004, Bush said that he'd have a report on possible options which he would present no later than 2005. Seems as if Katrina blew the report away because it wasn't until late 2007 when the White House acknowledged that they did not have a report and hence nothing would be done. You'd think that a party that's pro-statehood would have acted already.

Trust me, I live on the island. The perception we get from the mainland is that Democrats would be more willing to accept us. To further prove this, HR2499 which authorized the plebiscite was passed by the House when it was under a Democrat majority (and by a not so large margin with 223 voted for it and 169 against it mostly from Republicans (and BTW, many well known Republicans like Boehner, Bachmann, and Paul Ryan voted against the measure)), though it died in the Senate committees due to lack of time. When it was reintroduced in the new Congress, the bill never made it past the committees in the House. So if they were really pro-statehood the referendum should have been authorized a long time ago and promotion to vote for it should have been done.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinejohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 957 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
We took in West Virginia, so we can really never reject anyone for being backwards, third world, and generally useless.

You might want to look into the history of WV. It was formed from the antislavery western end of VA during the Civil War. I'd say that that gives them a step up on the rest of the South.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 49, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2930 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 47):
Well, it sure hasn't looked like it. Back in 2000 and 2004 Republicans held control of all branches and not once did they even vote to begin the process of self determination for us. In fact, back in 2004, Bush said that he'd have a report on possible options which he would present no later than 2005. Seems as if Katrina blew the report away because it wasn't until late 2007 when the White House acknowledged that they did not have a report and hence nothing would be done. You'd think that a party that's pro-statehood would have acted already.

Trust me, I live on the island. The perception we get from the mainland is that Democrats would be more willing to accept us. To further prove this, HR2499 which authorized the plebiscite was passed by the House when it was under a Democrat majority (and by a not so large margin with 223 voted for it and 169 against it mostly from Republicans (and BTW, many well known Republicans like Boehner, Bachmann, and Paul Ryan voted against the measure)), though it died in the Senate committees due to lack of time. When it was reintroduced in the new Congress, the bill never made it past the committees in the House. So if they were really pro-statehood the referendum should have been authorized a long time ago and promotion to vote for it should have been done.

But remember that Fortuño is a solid Republican, and most (if not all) of his allies that that sponsored this referendum were also Republicans. Therefore, your point is invalid since the main sponsors of the referendum were Republicans. Even if Puerto Rico becomes a solid blue state, other states would have to lose representatives (and thus electoral votes), and most likely the states that would lose representatives would be the solid blue states.

FYI, even though the Republican Party is pro-statehood for Puerto Rico, they are against statehood for Washington D.C.

[Edited 2012-11-09 10:35:41]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 50, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2934 times:

For Puerto Rico, I would have hoped for independence, rather than being part of the USA.

If the state can stand on its own, it should. It is different from the USA, very much so and I'm not entirely convinced that being a US state is the optimal future for Puero Rico.

Still, wish them all the best.



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 51, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 39):
Congress can just as easily pass a bill granting PR independence and as soon as it is signed, PR would be a fully independent country

This is what I hope will happen. PR doesn't want to be a state, yet they receive federal funds frm the U.S. I think that needs to stop and let PR be independent. PR brings the U.S. nothing to the table, IMO.

And this is coming from a Republican.   



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3697 posts, RR: 2
Reply 52, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 46):
There's still Wisconsin

I don't think 'Fly is into lesbians.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 49):
Rico, they are against statehood for Washington D.C.

I'm not in favor of statehood for DC either but I believe they should have full Congressional representation. Talk about disenfranchisement.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3379 posts, RR: 8
Reply 53, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 49):
But remember that Fortuño is a solid Republican, and most (if not all) of his allies that that sponsored this referendum were also Republicans. Therefore, your point is invalid since the main sponsors of the referendum were Republicans.

My point is not invalid, especially since people here don't elect officials for being Republicans or Democrats. Fortuño's running mate is a Democrat and he also supported the referendum. The only thing they have in common is that they are both statehood supporters and members of the New Progressive Party. Add former (living) NPP governors, all of whom are also Democrats and plenty of other party members that are also Democrat, the definite 60/40 split still stands.

As far as Congressional "approval", facts speak more than anything.

Here are the results showing how "supportive" Republicans in Congress were of the bill which would have made the referendum a legal one:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll242.xml



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineregupilot From Puerto Rico, joined Jan 2004, 495 posts, RR: 24
Reply 54, posted (2 years 1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2811 times:

Quoting Airstud (Reply 24):
The thing I want to know however is, are there charming, historic, architecturally significant post offices in Puerto Rico?

Well, there's this 1900 something building:

Post Office & Courthouse by National Register, on Flickr

Thing is, some of you (even locals) mention it as if WE HAVE CONTROL of it. the only control we can try to push (to the congress) is by voting, since it is the way the US works. Puertorricans HAVE NEVER HAD CONTROL OF THEMSELVES, someone always told them what to do and how to do it.. be it the powerful local or the powerful nation (telling the powerful local what to do)... So.. it is not if "they want, they don't want" .... I would say that they don't know and some of the powerful locals don't want the population to know exactly what's going on and how the US Congress works. Education is the main issue here. I would probably get flamed but, it's hard for Puertorricans to look past their coast... and those that do, can't look past the lower 48s OR Cuba. Then there's .1% that knows what's going on but it's just too small a percentage to make a difference.
I would say that, the US have tell them what they want, how to do it, so that the majority believe something is happening (which is a bad perception)... then some powerful entity should EDUCATE the locals and then something might happen. Until then, everything will be a mess... Puerto Rico is like those hungry communities that have always been fed but never taught to sow... oh, and BTW... Puertorricans that have federal jobs DO pay federal income taxes.
I would say that the main disadvantages to the USA are the following:
1. Huge percentage of lazy people living on food stamps.
2. Low percentage of educated people - They do read but they're not smart enough by comparison to other states.
3. High percentage of people that does not follow rules, laws, etc.. and do not care (as a result to point 2).
4. High percentage of people who doesn't want to know thoroughly their laws and their rules, but rely on hear say (as a result of point 2).
5. The huge mess a stupid population could create (as a result of point 2).

The advantages:"
1. Location... this could be the Hawaii of the east.
2. Consumer society - We buy and buy and buy and buy and buy and then buy some more. For a 100 miles by 35 miles island (or strictly 117x37 +/-) 30+ and almost always full all the time is just too much.
3. Different vibe... for those who would like to be at home away from home, Puerto Rico as a State does offer a different perspective of life.
4. Spanish: whatever the language issue you guys pointed out at the top is all BS. Any government with no official language will try to inform as many of its citizens as possible in as many ways it can. If Spanish was an issue, why is the Federal government progressively making its services available in Spanish? I would think Spanish is an asset.. and yeah, many Puertorricans do not speak English but many more are learning (new generations are getting better).

At the end, this is like a love relationship.... when you are in love, its hard for you to see things from the outside... Puertorricans are in love with their local political parties, not necessarily with their country. This place would be a great independent nation, but then disadvantage number two happens. Let the flames begin.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40076 posts, RR: 74
Reply 55, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
No kidding. We took in West Virginia, so we can really never reject anyone for being backwards, third world, and generally useless.



Ever heard of coal?
Like it or not, coal is still a major source of energy in the United States and much of it comes from West Virginia.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 44):
If we got rid of WV, what would our good friend Superfly do when stateside?



???
I only passed through there once when I was like 9 years old.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 46):
There's still Wisconsin.


  


It's too bad The Philippines chose not to become a state. After WWII the Philippines had an opportunity to become a state.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 56, posted (2 years 1 month 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2570 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 21):
DC should be officially represented (2 Sens. 1 Rep.) in Congress before PR statehood

The whole idea of DC was that it be independent - that one state would not be the beneficiary of having the federal government and all that money there.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 27):
Many statehood supporters argue that if PR becomes a state it will retain its Olympic delegation (among other events), not pay any further federal taxes (we pay only SS, Medicare, but not federal income tax), and Spanish will remain the main language. I recognize that at the federal level, there is no language, but English is used as de facto, and many here can barely speak with accent. Asking to become a state but having delegations in world events counters the purpose of becoming one in the first place.

If they insisted on all that, then statehood will certainly be rejected. The whole idea of statehood is that we all go in together.

Frankly, I don't see how anyone in Puerto Rico would want statehood. With the Federal government going out of control and ruinous taxes and/or high inflation just around the corner, why would they choose to join up when right now they get the benefits without the cost?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3379 posts, RR: 8
Reply 57, posted (2 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2439 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 56):
Frankly, I don't see how anyone in Puerto Rico would want statehood. With the Federal government going out of control and ruinous taxes and/or high inflation just around the corner, why would they choose to join up when right now they get the benefits without the cost?

I firmly support the idea that the future relation must be settled one way or another but I'm a realist:
1. The status quo has worked for me and to this day I don't have any problems with it. Statehood and independence supporters alike blame all the troubles on the status quo, which MIGHT have some truth, but it's not THE sole reason.
2. The Union is in no condition to accept another state at this time. There are more pressing matters at hand like the fiscal cliff and social issues.
3. Even if the Union were to accept another state, I highly doubt PR is in good shape to be accepted. The levels of poverty here are far greater than Mississippi which would lead us to becoming a welfare state. And, since people here turn a blind eye to many things, I wouldn't be surprised that, IF we were admitted as a state, nearly 70% of the population opted to receive welfare checks. Truth of the matter is, many here are lazy. Many expect government handouts and live off them. Women have 4-5 children, often knowing they can't support them, only to receive free housing, extremely subsidized utilities, and food stamps among others.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
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