zippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5601 posts, RR: 12 Posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3077 times:
I didn't see this in the threads so here goes. There's talk of employees staging a walkout at Target and Walmart and possibly some of the other big box retail giants. Why? They are protesting the extended hours, starting Black Friday Sales on Thanksgiving Day and night. I hope they succeed and changes are made. I feel at least the one day American Thanksgiving should be for families. I have been off and worked on Turkey Day in the past. I have no problem with it. At least with my workplace FL/WN, the company shows good faith and provides us with a decent Thanksgiving repast with almost all the trimmings. This year I have the good fortune of being off. There is plenty of time for people to shop and take advantage of those supposed killer Black Friday deals. I've even felt making people come in like 0200 on Black Friday Morning is cruel and unusual punishment. This tradition of storming retail giants to save on an I Pod or whatever is crass and takes away from the meaning of Thanksgiving. Only folks that should be working on Turkey day are essential things like medical, police, fire. I know our industry flies albeit a modified schedule. At least in our industry it's generally reduced hours.
So, let this discussion begin. I vote for the employees. Target and Walmart for heaven sake take Thanksgiving off and remain closed. Your bottom line won't suffer.
For business that make their people work Thanksgiving Day how about at least show them some thanks for their hard work. Providing a nice meal for example like we do. I bet if your run of the mill government workers had to work on Turkey Day you'd have rioting in the streets.
Jetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3096 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3081 times:
Sure it's ridiculous and I choose to not support it by holding off my shopping, but the simple fact is that it's RETAIL. Retail sucks. They chose this job and at the end of the day they are quite replaceable. However, like you I hope they're somewhat successful.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5957 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3079 times:
Are you seriously serious?
That's how business works. If hoards of people want to slam the stores at 2AM on a Friday morning, it would be a bad business decision to keep the store closed. If you don't like it, find another job or stand in the unemployment line.
Both companies have very specific policies that they tell you BEFORE you sign up, and it goes like this:
"You must be able to work a flexible schedule, including nights, weekends, and holidays."
Oh, and by the way:
Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter): There's talk of employees staging a walkout at Target and Walmart and possibly some of the other big box retail giants.
I guarantee you any employee who does that will quickly find themselves without a job.
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8743 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3080 times:
I would have no problems with Black Friday starting at a reasonable hour on Friday - like 9 AM. Reality is that they will have the same level of customer response as a Thursday opening would have.
I'll also note that brick & mortar retailers want to get sales in before Black Monday. They have disadvantages when it comes to competing with internet sites. No sales tax is right up there, along with property taxes at good retail sites.
As far as I go, there is a clear need to have a nap after a big T Day Meal with the trimmings & family & friends. If I can stay awake I might actually watch a football game. Then there are leftovers for dinner and a good night's sleep.
With a day like that why would I want to fight heavy traffic at the malls, or at the big box stores?
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 8494 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3079 times:
I'm not trying to be anti-worker and I always try to have an open mind... but really, if you choose to work at Walmart or Target or something, accept the hours. Even my dad with a "respectable" airline job is working Thanksgiving Thursday. I think Black Friday is stupid but I don't work for a retail store and expect to get Thursday off. Life sucks sometimes, get over it
That's why God willing I will never have to work at either place. The nastiness in people rears it's ugly head when it comes to Christmas. The crass commercialism, It's an example of the dumed down "Sheeple." This is why God invented the Internet where great deals abound aplenty. I still think back to that Christmas season from hell several years ago where a Walmart employee was trampled to death all for some off brand Hi def TV made in China at a rock bottom price. I wonder how this poor soul's family is doing all for this retail stupidity and madness. Makes us look bad as a nation.
Been there done that I know it goes with the territory and at least I get the satisfaction that our industry makes it possible for one to be with their family at this special time of year. And as mentioned luckilly our company looks out for us.
True, it's part of the deal but it seems each year these cattle car retailers seem to take advantage of their worker bees. As a commentator said on the radio earlier today, had this come up during the halcyon economic go go days of the late 90's, these workers might have had a better chance of getting their point across. Now, these big box heartless retailers are in the driver's seat and can fire people and hire others probably for cheaper wages. Here's to hoping the Internet trumps all their bravado hoopla and BS with these sales and promotions.
If Rod Serling were alive today, he could write a Twilight Zone where all the government drone paper pushers were forced to work Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's day under penalty of termination. I bet, they'd be crying, and fighting in the streets.
Hey Walmart, Target and other big box prisons why don't you just stay open round the clock and get robots to do your dirty work during these crunch times. I bet the CEO's of both will be at their palatial estates ordering their servants to tote that barge and lift that bale to serve them and their families.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 8494 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3079 times:
Quoting zippyjet (Reply 5): True, it's part of the deal but it seems each year these cattle car retailers seem to take advantage of their worker bees.
But in all honestly, the "travesty" here is working on a holiday... sucks but there was a "call to action" last year and now there seems to be murmurings of something this year... I'm sorry for ya, but having a certain holiday off is not a sacred right, and if your company wants to open ridiculously early for black Friday, well, I'm sorry... there's the front door
As I said I'm thankful that you and me do not work for such companies! Have a safe and most of all happy Turkey Day. Here's an idea: Let convicts work these stores on these ridiculous shopping days. They can have RFID Chips attached to ankle bracelets so if they try to get a 5 finger discount, they get zapped. Then the sheeple (a lot of paper pushers and government workers) can get their jollies and fight each other and crush each other for that el cheapo made in China must have electronic toy for their spoiled ungrateful undisciplined children! Then the regular workers get their holiday off. Ho Ho Ho! Meanwhile if I have to work Thanksgiving day I'll be thankful I'm far away from those big box cattle cars.
blueflyer From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Jan 2006, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3080 times:
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 2): Both companies have very specific policies that they tell you BEFORE you sign up, and it goes like this: "You must be able to work a flexible schedule, including nights, weekends, and holidays."
This is not the Securities and Exchange Commission. Past history is an acceptable prediction of future behavior. I wouldn't blame the employees one bit for walking out over having to work Thanksgiving dinner because it isn't, and has never been, the company's normal conduct, just as I would condemn someone making the same complaint of any employer that does have a history of running 24/7/365.
I only hope that if the walkouts do go ahead, enough employees join so as to make reprisal impossible. They may be easy to replace individually, but try replacing and training half a store's workforce before the busiest time of the year. Big box stores need to thread carefully, especially when they apparently settled on a strategy of well-informed employees having direct contact with customers to compete against their online competitors. It doesn't jive very well either with green employees, or seasoned but angry employees...
That said, I do think any walkout is one year too late.
jetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2943 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW HEAD MODERATOR
People on Black Friday are absolutely insane. My best friend works at a target in the electronics department and he got trampled last year. Someone would scream they want the tv that is 20 bucks off and someone wanted the video game that was 5 bucks cheaper. He said it is insanity. I don't blame people at all for wanting to walk out. It's amazing how poor a lot of these employees get treated by customers. Though my friend said in general working for Target is actually a great job for a college kid.
All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
Those stores give a rat's ass on customer satisfaction at least on those insane retarded sales blitzkriegs. I believe they feel they are doing the public a favor by cutting prices on some China made goods and the public should lick their bootstraps. Meaning they could care less by firing scores of employees and bringing new people on. It's chaos already so what's a little more inconvenience. Remember Walmart and Target knocked $20.00 off that made in China off brand must have toy. As long as they can get away with it, barbaric hours, treating employees like sh*t they will do it. They have a built in base of suckers who will stomp, trample each other whatever the cost as long as they buy the marked down crap for Christmas. So what if an employee of a Walmart is made into fish chum from trampelling crazies. As long as the cash register rings cha ching, Walmart or whoever will just write off the death of that poor employee and hire someone else. Anybody know what became of the family that had their breadwinner trampled to death thanks to this Christmas retail bull $h*t?
Give the employees of these cattle cars Tasers (with a weaker than standard charge) if it gets too crazy zap em. BTW tell your friend I give my blessing and approve of him or some other Target employee snuffing out that obnoxious "Target Lady" who is literally climaxing over the fact that the Target Black Friday Sale starts Thanksgiving Day at 0200!
kngkyle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 436 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
I work for Target and will be there for the first shift. (9pm thanksgiving) The store that shoppers go to first is the one they tend to spend the most money at, so the stores are in a race to the bottom to open earliest. Target didn't decide on an opening time until the other retailers made theirs public, so they're more following than leading the trend. Target is also paying us more for working black friday. I'll be getting nearly double what I usually make for the first part of my shift.
I think the stores opening during dinner time is just ridiculous though. Thankfully Target isn't one of them, so I can still have a nice thanksgiving dinner with my family before going into work at 9pm.
To be honest though, I'm kind of excited for it. I've never been a black friday shopper, so it will be kind of new for me. And instead of spending money, I'll be making money.
Also Target let us pick what shift we wanted to work, open, midday, or close. I'm not sure if everyone got what they wanted or not, but I did.
dlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 1029 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
I am a former Target team member and I must say everyone in the store I worked at enjoyed black friday because of the rush and how time flies. But that was when we would open our doors at 6am... I don't understand how Walmart does this year after year, opening earlier and earlier. Even though you pay your employees next to nothing let them have a thanksgiving, the cheap TV for 50 bucks will still be there at 6am or 5am on BLACK FRIDAY.
On my last black friday I was working at the customer service counter, it was part of my duty when the store opened to hand people shopping carts as they came in. I almost got knocked down by a fat lady in a gray sweat suit, I have never seen a fat lady move that fast.
fr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6136 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
When I happen to be off during the holidays on any given year, I will not shop on Thanksgiving, nor will I get up early Friday morning.
Retail is retail...just like the airline industry is the airline industry and emergency services are emergency services, etc., etc. The world is getting flatter and, quite simply holidays don't mean much anymore, at least when it comes to time off, for those in the service industries, retail included.
We, the collective, have decided that we will shop on holidays. Therefore, the retailers will open their doors to us. Christmas is next.
If you choose to, or have to, work in the retail industry, you need to roll with the punches or go elsewhere.
pellegrine From Turks and Caicos Islands, joined Mar 2007, 2520 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
Working in a retail job sucks, IMO. My first jobs were in retail and food. We had nasty drunks coming in late hours sometimes... And you're working for a shi**y wage. Please.
A lot of people work in retail because they have to. Not because they want to. I make the differentiation there. There's a lack of suitable jobs for people. Americans like to buy s*** they can barely afford....ergo lots of crappy retail jobs hawking s*** from China.
Let these people rest on a de-facto national day off. The government is closed...
I never go shopping on "black friday". I don't even want to...or care about the sales LOL. To me the retail industry is one of the most disrespectful industries towards their workers. I would walk out too.
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13467 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3080 times:
I live near Paramus, NJ, one of the biggest retail shopping locations in the USA. With so many stores (3 malls, numerous big box stores and strip malls), they kept the old 'Blue Laws' to assure a 'day of rest' for local citizens and do not allow stores to be open on Sundays, major holidays like Thanksgiving as well as not before 7 AM or after 11 PM. They do allow grocery stores, convenience stores and gas stations to be open without restrictions. Bergen County, which Paramus is located in also has similar rules county-wide. It is flashback to my youth in the 1960's to see all but the grocery section of my local Walmart closed off on Sundays. I wish that most places on a statewide basis would have similar rules except allowing Sunday opening with limited hours.
Quoting kngkyle (Reply 11): The store that shoppers go to first is the one they tend to spend the most money at, so the stores are in a race to the bottom to open earliest.
This is exactly why we have seen the Black Friday 'creep' to max the opportunities for sales and limited profits for the retailers. One has to wonder how much the real payoff is considering the higher labor costs, including for security, liability for injuries and the disappointing of too many customers for not having nowhere near enough of the limited numbers of 'doorbuster' items.
Another part of the 'Black Friday' walkouts/protests is at several warehouse locations for Walmart in So Cal and near Chicago, IL operated by 3rd party companies. They pay their workers minimum wage, no benefits, no opportunities for full time work, with dangerous conditions and severe demands to work to the point of encouraging injuries. They hope to attract unions to give them a better work place.
I have gone out early on 'Black Friday' but not earlier than 7 AM to nearby stores, but now I wait to at least 9 AM and this year may not go out until the big rush is over later in the morning and will go with my 83 year old mom on Saturday to do major Christmas shopping and still do pretty good financially.
casinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5289 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
In the current recession, there are many workers who will work for a price
Quoting kngkyle (Reply 11): I work for Target and will be there for the first shift. (9pm thanksgiving)
Quoting kngkyle (Reply 11): . I'll be getting nearly double what I usually make for the first part of my shift.
Economic incentives on the Employee, Employer, and Customer side is what drives this zealous sales event.
The employers know that customers will shop, and the employees want money. It is a win/win for all involved.
I will be on of those, not participating. However I understand the incentives for those involved.
Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter): There's talk of employees staging a walkout at Target and Walmart and possibly some of the other big box retail giants.
I am sure there is talk, but I doubt it is enough to make waves. It is much like the secession threads going on. People that walk out will be replaced.
[Edited 2012-11-15 05:23:30]
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
Cadet985 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1847 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3077 times:
Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter): This tradition of storming retail giants to save on an I Pod or whatever is crass and takes away from the meaning of Thanksgiving.
The sad thing is that the big deals, aren't even generally on newer high quality electronics. Look at a Best Buy ad for Black Friday. The laptops they use as door busters are usually last year's models, bad specs, yet you'll have a line 1000 people long trying to get one of maybe 6 that the store has in stock. I've been there, done the early morning shopping thing, and it's not for me anymore and I'm only 27. Besides...who are people kidding? You aren't giving that 60-inch plasma screen TV to anyone as a gift, except yourself.
If I were to go anywhere on Black Friday, I'd wait until the afternoon/evening. A few years ago, a group of us went holiday shopping Black Friday evening, and we had no trouble finding parking, and the mall wasn't that much more crowded than normal.
I 100% support the workers in this case. Thanksgiving should be a time to be with family/friends/whomever, and not have to worry about getting to bed at 2 so you can be up at 6 to go into work at 8.
Sorry Walmart, Target, etc. You won't find me in stores on Black Friday. I'd rather watch TV and wait for Cyber Monday...if I'm buying gifts - which this year I'm not since everyone on my list is getting something from my upcoming trip to Israel.
KaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12307 posts, RR: 33
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3077 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
Last year I didn't leave home on Black Friday. Did a lot of shopping online though. Amazon has good deals all day, and with Prime, I get free shipping. My kind of shopping This year, the wife and her mom are going shopping. Her dad and I don't have any plans yet, but will probably involve beer
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
and have another guy take the job in no time. If you don't like working on Thanksgiving I am sure the store can easily find another person who does and will happily take the job.
Everyone is all worked up about the "poor retail employees" having to work on a Holiday. I don't hear people complaining about the Police, fireman, airline employees, railroad workers, restaurant staff, TV and radio workers and countless of other jobs that work every holiday. Some jobs require work during nights, weekends, and Holidays. If you don't like the job get a different job; I did.
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4944 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3077 times:
Quoting falstaff (Reply 22): Everyone is all worked up about the "poor retail employees" having to work on a Holiday. I don't hear people complaining about the Police, fireman, airline employees, railroad workers, restaurant staff, TV and radio workers and countless of other jobs that work every holiday. Some jobs require work during nights, weekends, and Holidays. If you don't like the job get a different job; I did.
I think there is one detail mentioned in this thread that is getting overlooked. I'll quote it below.
Quoting blueflyer (Reply 8): Past history is an acceptable prediction of future behavior. I wouldn't blame the employees one bit for walking out over having to work Thanksgiving dinner because it isn't, and has never been, the company's normal conduct, just as I would condemn someone making the same complaint of any employer that does have a history of running 24/7/365.
I agree with this. These ridiculous Thanksgiving/Black Friday hours are a new thing and they are getting worse every year. Sure, the new seasonal workers know what they are getting into, but not everyone working retail signed up for this. Working black friday, yes. That's something that has been long established that you can count on. But having to start a shift during or right after Thanksgiving dinner? That's ridiculous and I feel bad for the people who after years working at one of these stores, now have to worry about their Thanksgiving plans.
And for the record, I work for an airline so I know all about working holidays.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
j.mo From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3077 times:
Quoting zippyjet (Thread starter): I bet if your run of the mill government workers had to work on Turkey Day you'd have rioting in the streets.
I usually agree with your rants Zippy, just not sure who you are referring to here. Police, fire, military and ATC are all Govt jobs. I have worked many Thanksgivings as a controller and in the Navy. No whining here.
That being said, I support the employees on this one. It's BS to open on Thanksgiving Day to pad the bottom line. Where does it stop? Next year they will open at 6pm on Thanksgiving? I'll support them by NOT shopping there.
What is the difference between Fighter pilots and God? God never thought he was a fighter pilot.
: Times change. Business changes. If you can't or don't want to change with your employer, it's probably time to find a new employer. I've had jobs whe
: I get that. But all this "they should have known what they signed up for" crap isn't entirely fair, in my opinion. From here on, perhaps. But not eve
: I'm sure they didn't. But if they read their contract, they probably did sign up to possibly work holidays and weekends as necessary. I don't persona
: Signed up? It's a job, life sucks sometimes. Times are changing so if working Thanksgiving is so unacceptable, there's the front door. Thanksgiving d
: Hogwash. I worked two Black Fridays at Target (before bolting to F9) and never received such pay. My pay during Black Friday was my standard hourly r
: Perhaps there was no Black Friday pay. But unless my boss just lied to everyone during huddle the other day, then yes we will be getting a bonus for
: Well, rather than worrying about Tea Party, Fiscal Cliffs, poor infrasturcture, lack of Medicare / Medicade, jobs, government debt, rich not paying t
: Come on man, please read my posts. I'm specifically targeting the argument that retail workers should have known when they applied for the jobs. Yes,
: I still have friends that still wok at Target. Just text messages two of them (one is a supervisor for overnight flow) and the responses I got was mo
: I think I'm just repeating what the Logistics ETL at my store told everyone. Maybe she is wrong. I don't know why you would think I have some agenda
: http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/io...=11034096#page:showThread,11034096 According to this article target is offering holiday pay. So maybe some folk
36 D L X
: That's the thing. Hoards of people do not want to slam the doors at 2am om Friday morning. Rather, hoards of people want to be first in line for a gi
: Of course if there's a store that opens earlier, they'd go there instead. It's a valid point: 2 AM sucks for shopping, but there's a point of diminis
: If that's true, then it must be a brand new thing that Target is doing this year. But still, my friends that are still working there have no clue abo
: My sister's boyfriend works at WalMart, and a high school classmate just quit his job at Target. I can assure you they take advantage of them almost
: Well, yeah it sucks being away from family but it is not the end of the world! They work in retail and the trend for the past couple of years has been
: That never received such pay when I worked there. But see reply 37 & 38.
: Sounded like you were trying to call someone a liar... but glad to see you come to your senses. Just because a store won't be able to replace someone