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Israel: A Huge War Beginning Just Now?  
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3823 posts, RR: 51
Posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5226 times:

I know things have been going up and down for years, but I'm seriously alarmed now. Today rockets hit Tel Aviv for the first time in ages, and it looks like Israel is preparing a massive attack or even invasion of Gaza, mobilizing thousands of troops.
I have a bad feeling about this.
Are we on the eve of the war that we hoped would never erupt, right now?

Soren


All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
320 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedamirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 726 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5230 times:

Well it's been nearly 4 years since the last excursion to Gaza... Lebanon in Aug 2006, Gaza in Dec 2008, Gaza in Nov 2012 now?

I can only hope it's not going to happen and both sides lay down the weapons. And I do mean *both* sides. No excursion into neighbouring lands that end up killing a 13-year old boy and afterwards playing "nobody knows why the amount of incoming rockets went up again, oh let's kill one of their leaders - that will surely calm the situation down". Same goes for the other side too ... no "oh it's boring, let's lob a few rockets to the north and see what happens".

Take two to tango, and two to fight ^^

D.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7919 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

I don't know, Israel has been at the brink of war many times. I don't think a few rockets are gonna trigger anything drastic. Not trying to sound insensitive, but just trying to look at the huge picture.

Kinda off topic, but did anyone see the supposed twitter war between the IDF and Hamas?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineswissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

Quoting damirc (Reply 1):
Take two to tango, and two to fight

How true... still cant believe the bs is going on... man we are n 2012!!
  


User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

If the shelling continues, yes there will be war again.




Here are two articles to go along with this thread..


Hamas missile launch pad next to mosque, playground.

http://kleinonline.wnd.com/2012/11/1...lso-half-a-block-from-fajr-5-site/



Miraculous Recovery by Injured Gaza Man?

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162130#.UKWM9ofSJ2r



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7162 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5230 times:

I guess an election is in the offing.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinetz757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2869 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5230 times:

Well both countries are filled with terrorists that hate each other so it's only bound to happen again.


LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5230 times:

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 5):
I guess an election is in the offing.

Too right, bestwestern. The (early) election is due on January 22nd., and this most recent attack on Gaza amounts to Netanyahu killing people in the interests of keeping an election promise:-

"Kicking off his re-election campaign, Netanyahu focused in his speech on tough measures he had taken to improve security for Israelis, such as building a fence along the border with Egypt’s Sinai, and deploying a missile shield against rockets fired from Gaza.

"Alluding to past threats to attack Iran to stop it from building a nuclear bomb, something Tehran denies, Netanyahu said Israel now had new unspecified “capabilities to act against Iran and its satellites (allied militants in Gaza and Lebanon), capabilities we didn’t have in the past”."


http://www.france24.com/en/20121016-...rity-january-likud-polls-bibi-iran

The same 'political tactic' has been used before five out of the last seven elections:-

http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPolitics/Article.aspx?id=292035

[Edited 2012-11-15 18:04:29]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlinethediplomat From Ireland, joined Jun 2006, 382 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 4):
Here are two articles to go along with this thread..

Hardly unbiased sources?

Israelnationalnews - ah that old chestnut of rightwing zionism that even the Israeli government wont give a broadcasting licence to.

Aaron Klein - the person who wrote a book called "The Manchurian President: Barack Obama's Ties to Communists, Socialists and Other Anti-American Extremists"

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
The same 'political tactic' has been used before five out of the last seven elections:-

I assume that the Israeli population are mature enough to see through this blatant election engineering.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1668 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5229 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 8):
I assume that the Israeli population are mature enough to see through this blatant election engineering.

Panem et circenses but at the expense of other human beings.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7639 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5231 times:

Quoting damirc (Reply 1):
I can only hope it's not going to happen and both sides lay down the weapons. And I do mean *both* sides.

This crap is getting old, and I honestly think that it's going to jeopardize many more nations than just Israel. I.e., if the US continues to support it as it is doing, we are going to have some serious issues. At the same time, we cannot back out and let Hamas/Iran bomb the living crap out of innocent people. Nor can we let Israel do that.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2874 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5227 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Kinda off topic, but did anyone see the supposed twitter war between the IDF and Hamas?

No, haven't seen that, but its been reported here in OZ. that YouTube took down the video posted by the IDF, as it was flagged inappropriate by many users, and appropriately so, IMHO.

YouTube itself, said that the video breached its terms (see link) and took the video down, however, it appears that someone/body/organization, probably the IDF wanted it back up, so miraculously its back up, funny that  http://www.examiner.com/article/isra...st-banned-then-restored-by-youtube

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Israel has been at the brink of war many times.

And Israelis call Arabs warmongers...... wheres that mirror again ?

Quoting flanker (Reply 4):
Here are two articles to go along with this thread..

Could you have possibly provided a more biased source  
Quoting flanker (Reply 4):
Hamas missile launch pad next to mosque, playground.

Oh wait, doctored pics. Reminds me of all the BS pics, that got us all involved in Iraq, pleas, let us not go there again !

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 5):
I guess an election is in the offing.

Yeah, there's nothing like a war at election time... way to go Bibi

And as per usual, our beloved PM Gillard and opposition leader Abbott have come out in total unquestioning support for Israel, yawn.   

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...acks-on-israel-20121116-29fx8.html

Is it any wonder, that Israel courts over seas political leaders, with sponsored, all expenses paid trips to Israel, just to see the "otherside" of things..... yeah right, lets buy and bribe support if we cant get it the legit way. Shocking.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
The (early) election is due on January 22nd., and this most recent attack on Gaza amounts to Netanyahu killing people in the interests of keeping an election promise:-

Nav20, do you think he's got the balls (Bibi) to take this to the Iranians, that should be interesting indeed. ??????

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 8):
I assume that the Israeli population are mature enough to see through this blatant election engineering.

I'd like to think so, but I don't have as much faith in the Israeli electorate as you may have. I think they will vote him back in, so on and on it will go unfortunately.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
Nor can we let Israel do that.

Agreed, but your Government is as bad as ours when it comes to blindly supporting Israel at the expense of Palestinians, time and time again.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 10):
if the US continues to support it as it is doing, we are going to have some serious issues.

"We are" or "you already have"

[Edited 2012-11-15 19:33:21]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5226 times:

To be totally honest, Hamas doesn't scare me as much as Syria.. What happens if near the Golan Heights a battle breaks out and more stuff is shot across the DMZ.. I don't see Israel just holding back like they and Turkey so far have, and the UN can only do so much up there.. Could we see Israel invade to intervene? (I'm not saying in the whole Syrian conflict just in the area that is next to the Golan Heights)


"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlinepellegrine From France, joined Mar 2007, 2449 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5228 times:

I'm feeling a tad gleeful about this.

Israel needs to get it together and play nice in the sandbox. The only thing that makes them realize this is pain in the equivalency that they deal out to the Palestinians.

Just because your big, bad, and bold doesn't mean you deserve the right to live in peace.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5226 times:

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 8):
I assume that the Israeli population are mature enough to see through this blatant election engineering.

All the signs so far are, thediplomat, that if anything Netanyahu has profited by the attack. I think we have to face the fact that more than half of the Israeli voting public are in favour of frequent 'Gaza-bashing.'

"The cynical view that the two men's decision to suddenly escalate the warfare in Gaza is connected to their political considerations is not unwarranted. Barak especially will be eager to demonstrate to Israeli voters that they still need his steady hands on the security reins - so they had better make sure that his party, Atzmaut, crosses the electoral threshold on January 22. He made sure during their brief joint statement on television tonight to wear his combat gear, a severe black leather jacket.

"Netanyahu has less need of a warlord demonstration since he is all but ensured a third term, but unless something goes spectacularly wrong he also stands to gain. At the very least, none of his rivals will be able to attack over the next few days."


http://www.haaretz.com/news/israeli-...-hurricane-jabari.premium-1.477891

The 'unknown factor' is that Egypt recently (by means of a popular vote) elected a prime minister with Islamist leanings. Up to now Egypt has always provided humanitarian aid and contact with the outside world to the unfortunate Gazans, but has sought also to maintain diplomatic contact with Israel. That may well change soon:-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...-11e2-a30e-5ca76eeec857_story.html

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 11):
Nav20, do you think he's got the balls (Bibi) to take this to the Iranians, that should be interesting indeed. ??????

Israel has nukes and has up to now received 100% political and military support from the USA. In those circumstances, much as I expect Iran to go on 'disapproving' of Israel's behaviour, there is no way it can even think about any direct (i.e. military) involvement over Gaza or any other part of what is left of Palestine. The 'Gaza Strip,' as it used to be called, is little more than a prison camp, the West Bank and East Jerusalem are in much the same situation; and even Palestinians living in 'Israel proper' don't have anything like equal rights.

As far as I'm concerned the only solution to the problem is for Israel to end all forms of religious discrimination and work towards the federation of the whole of what we used to call 'Palestine' into a single federated state, with equal rights for all.

But I'll let everyone know if that ever looks like happening. There'll be sure signs of it. For a start, I'm sure I'll see pigs flying over Melbourne the moment Israel (and the USA) ever even LOOK like getting sensible about this bloody (I use the word advisedly) mess.......

[Edited 2012-11-15 22:28:37]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9437 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5226 times:

Quoting swissy (Reply 3):
How true... still cant believe the bs is going on... man we are n 2012!!

yes, but only one of the two lives in the 21st century.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 4):

If the shelling continues, yes there will be war again.

That goes for both sides, Flanker.

Quoting thediplomat (Reply 8):
Quoting flanker (Reply 4):
Here are two articles to go along with this thread..

Hardly unbiased sources?

Lol- I had to chuckle. It was completely biased drivel.

Wasn't this sparked because Israel assassinated a member of Hamas? As soon as I heard it on the radio I KNEW that this would incite some reaction. You can't go around assassinating members of the Palestinian government (who were elected) without upsetting what was already a very fragile peace.

I can not foresee any peace between Israel and Palestinian- certainly not in my life time, and I'm only 30.
Since the 1940s the two entities have been at war and since then, nothing has changed. Actually, things have improved for the state of Israel but for Palestinians, they haven't had a very nice existence. This in turn creates upset, especially with the Israeli settlements mushrooming on what even Israel deemed as Palestinian land. And the Israeli's don't stop the settlements. You know, Israel is not a small country- there is room to build your camp elsewhere.
Why incite upset by illegally setting up home on someone else's land? It's like history repeating itself!



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2615 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5229 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 14):
'Gaza-bashing.'

Seriously??!!!

Over 700 rockets fired into Israel to date this year, FROM GAZA, close to 300 of them yesterday!!!!!!!!

Any other country would have considered that an Act of War long ago.

I hope Israel does the same thing the King of Jordan did with them back in 1970 and wipes them out! They deserve it!
Push them into Egypt. They deserve it. And take back Gaza and NEVER give it up again! They deserve it.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlinedamirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 726 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5230 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 17):
Over 700 rockets fired into Israel to date this year, FROM GAZA, close to 300 of them yesterday!!!!!!!!

The amount of illegal settlements built by Palestinians in 2012: 0.
The amount of illegal settlements built by Israelis in 2012? You don't need me to quote the exact numbers or?

The amount of target killings of Israeli political figures commited by Palestinians in 2012: 0.
The amount of target killings of Palestinian political figures commited by Israelis in 2012? ....

Goes both ways. No matter how biased we all are (and we all carry some bias with us) - the picture is clear - both sides are guilty for the situation, and both sides are continuing the path towards peace (mhm) carrying giant clubs in their hands.

Read a nice article in the JPost today - 5 out of the last 7 general elections in Israel were preceded by military action (either Gaza, Syria or Lebanon).

I can not assess the truthfulness of this article: http://www.timesofisrael.com/jabari-...israeli-who-negotiated-with-hamas/ but if true it could provide some food for thought.

D.


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9437 posts, RR: 30
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 16):
Wasn't this sparked because Israel assassinated a member of Hamas?

No, there was first a missile attack from Gaza to Israel. The Palestinians in Gaza always request this, they send invitations and then complain that Israel fires back. Any country n the world would do that.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinepellegrine From France, joined Mar 2007, 2449 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Part of this has to do with Obama being re-elected as well.

Netanyahu has to show a big d*** in his hand to counteract the perceived notion that US Democrats are softer on Arab aggression than Republican hard-liners are.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2874 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5230 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
No, there was first a missile attack from Gaza to Israel. The Palestinians in Gaza always request this, they send invitations and then complain that Israel fires back. Any country n the world would do that.

why did you just change what you originally wrote ?

That the Palestinians were basically from the dark ages ?

And now you come out with this drivel

Try " Israeli Land grabs" and see if that rinds any bells for ya !



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9437 posts, RR: 30
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 21):
That the Palestinians were basically from the dark ages ?

not generalizing the Palestinians, but the Hamas terrorists certainly are, like any other religion driven terrorists.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 21):
Try " Israeli Land grabs" and see if that rinds any bells for ya !

Israel gave back all of the Sinai, they moved out of Gaza completely. I wish Hamas would learm that peaceful co-existance would be far better for Gaza, especially for the people there, but that would ruin their business case.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 17):
I hope Israel does the same thing the King of Jordan did with them back in 1970 and wipes them out! They deserve it!

That is actually quite an evil thing to say. Do you mean wipe the Palestinian nation out ? Like Hiter did to the Jews in the 1940s? Or wipe out a nationally elected government which was elected in a democratic process? I think you should shed some light on that, because if you do mean wipe out a whole nation of people, you are a sick man indeed.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 17):
Push them into Egypt. They deserve it. And take back Gaza and NEVER give it up again! They deserve it.

Again, I am really shocked at your aggression here. You do realise that pre 1940s this was Palestinian land?
That Israel didn't actually really exist? It has been the Israeli's who have stolen Palestinian land, not the other way round.
Why do you have so much hatred here? I will tell you what the Palestinians "deserve"- they deserve a piece of land that is their's. Just imagine is the Cubans came to your town armed with guns and forced you into Canada and said, right, we now declare this our new home. And robbed your homes and shops and made you homeless. Finally relenting, they give you a quarter of your town back to live in but then bombed your power stations and your airport and destroyed any chance of an economy. Then these Cubans decided that it wasn't enough, they actually started building their homes on your part of town until you were left with not much. And when somebody resists and tries to fight back, they bulldoze your homes, with your kids inside and your wife etc. And then fire massive missiles into your part of town. And you are stuck. No one comes to help.

Quoting pellegrine (Reply 20):
perceived notion that US Democrats are softer on Arab aggression

But why do they not care about Israeli aggression directed towards Arabs (i.e the Palestinians or the Lebanese)?



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlinedamirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 726 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5229 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 19):
No, there was first a missile attack from Gaza to Israel. The Palestinians in Gaza always request this, they send invitations and then complain that Israel fires back. Any country n the world would do that.

Technically these sorts of tit-for-tat exchanges are hard to explain or determine who started them - since in this case "who started it" depends on how far back you look. If you look a week back then it was Hamas who started it - if you look two weeks back then it was Israel who started it - so a definite answer is very hard to find.

Generally speaking this latest clash started between Nov 5th and Nov 8th. On Nov 5th a Palestinian was shot on the Palestinian side of the fence on the border of Gaza and Israel (I've heard reports labelling him having learning difficulties, but with Hamas' PR I wouldn't necessarily believe it). Also on that day an IED exploded injuring 4 Israeli soldiers. On Nov 8th IDF soldiers entered the Gaza Strip after finding several bomb near the border fence - this ultimately resulted in the death of a 13 year old (read also that he might've been 12 years old). Well from Nov 9th on Palestinians stepped up the rocket attacks (also attacking an IDF vehicle on the Israeli side and injuring 4 soldiers (1 critically IIRC)) and the rest is known. Hard to call who started it unless you specify the cutoff date for the "started it" determination.

D.


25 damirc : But how do you give back someone something if it wasn't yours in the first place? I'll join your wish and also add that Israel needs to learn the sam
26 damirc : Didn't consider that but thinking about it, you may be right. This would have been a major issue before the US Presidentials elections. D.
27 PanHAM : This kind of thinking is Kindergarten. It waqsn't property of the palestinians, who were nomads, either. That's what the majority of the Israelis, wh
28 damirc : Well they've lived on it. There are deeds in Istanbul that proves some of their ownership you know. But even those deeds are invalidated by some cour
29 NAV20 : Sorry, PanHAM, that's a crazy statement. Palestine and its cities have existed for over 2,000 years. Come to that - Jesus Christ was a Palestinian...
30 Post contains images damirc : But he was born Jewish Which illustrates that there are people of three religions living in Israel and Palestine - 2000 years ago they were of only o
31 PanHAM : I can't hear this anymore. Sixty years and longer in a refugee camp? Who except some illiterate ....buys that crap? What do you think Europe would be
32 Post contains images NAV20 : Good one, damirc. Only thing is, being Jewish is a religion, last I heard. Not in any sense a nationality?
33 par13del : Only thing I see resolved at this stage is the claim made months ago and debunked as laughlable by many that there were missiles in Gaza capable of re
34 Quokkas : And not just Germans but others in Poland, Lithuania, Croatia, etc. After WW2 my mother worked with displaced persons, including many who were Jewish
35 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Does anyone really care any more, outside of Israel/Palestine? Would anyone in the US honestly lift a finger for either side after our experiences in
36 DeltaMD90 : Honestly, yes, millions of Americans care. It is my opinion that the issue is often one sided so Israel does not receive the criticism it often warra
37 EDKA : along with many other western governments... you choose to support a terrorist group, thats your call. no i wasn't. this round was sparked by the mis
38 na : Idiots beating at each other is the only thing that comes to my mind here. I´m tired of it. Will this go on forever and both sides will keep dragging
39 Post contains links damirc : No, but there were people living there who owned the land that they lived on. They were disposessed and then displaced. History won't help any Palest
40 Acheron : Hard to do when any and all criticism is switfly neutralized with a "you sound like an antisemite".
41 Post contains links SOBHI51 : PanHam did you ever heard or knew of nomads issuing there own currency or coins? http://attendingtheworld.wordpress.c.../04/10/currency-of-1927-pales
42 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I don't think it moves the dial anymore with voters. The Republicans are the biggest supporters of Israel and they just got shellacked, and the Jewis
43 casinterest : Newsflash: Missiles and Bombs still hurt and kill people. Israel and Hamas do not play nice: Sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Same ol, Same
44 DeltaMD90 : Oh I know. I was just poking fun at the fact that if you somewhat disagree with Israel, that makes you a Nazi or something
45 pvjin : Yeah yeah, I wonder if they will ever manage to make peace. Everything around there would be so much easier if Jerusalem wasn't so important to three
46 damirc : Didn't actually see this before - sorry, illiterate? Refugee camps - as in camps that are housing people that were made refugees on their own land. W
47 BMI727 : It's all perfectly explainable. The American support from Israel has little to do with the Jewish vote or the disproportionately large influence of J
48 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I definitely understand that, but they just had their religious arse handed to them in this election, and it only gets worse for them from here on ou
49 NAV20 : Not 'getting at you,' EDKA, but I find that statement fascinating. I see that you're relatively young, and you are staying in, or live in, Israel. If
50 Post contains images YVRLTN : Genesis 32:28 - Jacob (the grandson of Abraham and "father" of the Jewish nation) was renamed Israel by God (funnily enough for fighting with God....
51 Post contains images NAV20 : Cheers, YVRLTN! Except that - taking off my history hat and putting on my legal one - I guess we should say 'his alleged promise to Abraham'.........
52 damirc : Well, I do believe that they do have a right to exist. Just that those rights end at the '67 borders and they will need to work on restitution for th
53 Cadet985 : I say take back Gaza, build a wall at the Gaza border with Egypt, and warn that anyone trying to tunnel under, break through, or climb over it, be sh
54 EDKA : Well, to be precise i never said there was "no place called Palestine" - check my original post. I said that the there was no country called Palestin
55 flanker : There are reports now that rockets are being fired from Egypt into Israel.
56 Flighty : Israel wants what the USA has... mil superiority not only within borders, but for a substantial range beyond. Nobody would sit in Mexico and lob rocke
57 ltbewr : As is the pattern of wars over the last 50+ years there, you got to know that this new war will drag in the rest of the world. It will mean the price
58 NAV20 : Cadet985, I think you should check the relevant arithmetic. The Gaza Strip is roughly 25 miles long, and, on average, about 6 miles wide, giving it a
59 babybus : The BBC will be pleased. This will keep them in copy for a long time. I think it's the only news casting service outside Israel that focuses almost ex
60 vc10 : Just to be the devil's advocate I do not think that statement is true as London with a population 8,174,000 and a land area of 607 sq miles has a pop
61 Dreadnought : You are overgeneralizing. I have nothing to do with evangelicals, but I fully support Israel, having spent some time in that part of the world (on th
62 something : Discussions are usually based on arguments and facts. Religions, the core root of this problem, are not.
63 Quokkas : It may be constructive to look at a map of the area. Israel has, contrary to International Law, not only seized territory but dispossessed the inhabi
64 Revelation : Kind of like those English settlers who showed up in America and Australia and decided they should start dispossessing, and even killing, people for
65 imiakhtar : If you back an animal into a corner and treat it harshly, it will lash out.
66 Dreadnought : At which point you have to shoot it. Edit: I'm not recommending a course of action - just pointing out that such a simplistic solution (under the exc
67 Viper911 : No, it was sparked because militant organisations from Gaza are firing rockets at Israel for a decade now, you don't see Israel killing Hamas members
68 DeltaMD90 : Yes, firing rockets at civilians is completely unacceptable. But does that completely absolve the other side of guilt? There's a little trend going o
69 Post contains links and images n229nw : Yes, and any other country would also consider a foreign power assassinating their elected leaders an act of war too, but Israel does this with impun
70 Acheron : Colombia bombed Ecuador a few years ago, I don't remember Ecuador wiping Bogota out of the map.
71 Post contains links and images NAV20 : "Speaking about the operation in Gaza – dubbed the "Pillar of Defence" – Israeli interior minister Eli Yishai said: "The goal of the operation is
72 Post contains links Quokkas : Well the Israelis have been talking tough as they call up 75,000 reservists. Avigdor Lieberman warned of a "crushing response" to come. "The only way
73 BMI727 : At this point I think it could be the end game if the Israelis want it to be. They could do whatever they wish to the Palestinian people and I doubt
74 PanHAM : Yes. A society that is unwilling to integrate refugees into normal life for over 60 years now must ask itself what they are doing wrong. If Germany h
75 Mir : The situation was as stable as could be expected when Israel assassinated Al-Jabari. In fact, someone who was involved with negotiating a cease-fire
76 Quokkas : Being an occupied and divided country helped. I doubt that the US, Britain and France, let alone the USSR would have tolerated armed refugee camps lo
77 NAV20 : Agree that the stated reason is 'simple,' Quokkas. But it's hardly seems to be a matter of 'demographics'? Surely it's 'straight' religious and/or ra
78 pvjin : According to news Israelis have now bombed also office building of local news station. Pretty typical from them, trying to kill news reporters so thei
79 Quokkas : On the surface it seems so but given the history of persecution that Jewish people have suffered over centuries it is understandable that they would
80 NAV20 : Sorry, Quokkas, simply can't accept that. As you say, a complete population with a 2,000-year history (which took no part in WW2 or the Holocaust) be
81 par13del : I'm not sure I can accept the occasional daily rocket fired into Israel and the bomb dropped into Gaza as relatively stable, but I must be governed b
82 Quokkas : Agreed. Please do not misunderstand. I am not in any way supporting ethnic cleansing or genocide. But what I have described follows the logic of the
83 Quokkas : I am opposed to discrimination on the grounds of sex; sexual identity or orientation; race, nationality or ethnicity, disability; age; family status;
84 na : As long as the Palestinians, or the official Palestinian organisation does not accept the existence of Israel and enforces punishment against anyone v
85 par13del : Re-read Nav20's response to your post, I quoted his response and listed your facts as you stated them, question was not directed to you. What was bel
86 Revelation : Hmm at first I thought you were writing of the Turkish "guest workers" in Germany...
87 na : Quoting PanHAM (Reply 75): A society that is unwilling to integrate refugees into normal life for over 60 years now must ask itself what they are doin
88 Revelation : What kind of test must be passed? It seems no such test is on the books, from what I've been told, so none can apply to be "German" enough to stop be
89 na : I do not really understand what you are trying to say here. If you apply for a German citizenship, you have to sign you´re accepting the German cons
90 PanHAM : If thats meant funny let me tell you it isnt. Integration is something that must in the first place be achieved by the "guests" themselves by adaptin
91 damirc : This could be said for the Israeli side also. And while we're at it - I still don't know what the exact border of Israel looks like. Honest question
92 powerslide : The "political" leaders are terrorists from a recognized terrorist group. Palestinians don't show they want peace when they elected terrorists. I hop
93 DeltaMD90 : And do you honestly think that will quell the Palestinians and they'll all of the sudden want peace? Really? Why do you think they are like this in t
94 pvjin : Hah, a lot of actions of IDF meet definition of terrorism too. This is typical one sided rubbish where military groups in disagreement with US govern
95 Post contains links and images powerslide : Don't count on it. I have zero sympathy for people who hide behind the forces of prejudice and intolerance. Hamas fired rockets into Israel and now t
96 Flighty : Clearly states why the core tenets of "Jewish state" are impossible to uphold with any honor whatsoever. The idea is flawed. If that's the best we ca
97 pvjin : Israel started this whole big mess by first killing their leader.
98 powerslide : Israel reacted when Gazans kept firing rockets at ISRAELI CIVILIANS DURING A CEASE FIRE. They just happened to target the Hamas leader. Israel has ev
99 Post contains links NAV20 : Did a bit of reading up and found, among other things, that the original mistake (which arguably led to the still-developing tragedy that is Palestine
100 powerslide : Whether or not it is a mistake, whatever happened, happened. It's time to look at the present situation and start making provisions for peace. Dwelli
101 Post contains links and images TheCommodore : That in reality, its really "no" better than one. Well Quokkas, I reckon the tents will be back in vogue once the IDF bombs and flattens everything i
102 Quokkas : I think you will find that Palestinians have blended in with other Palestinians. What they haven't achieved is an independent state. The division bet
103 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Of course what Hamas is doing is wrong. Not arguing that. I'm saying it's a 2 way street and Israel's actions leading up to this are not the best. Th
104 BMI727 : I forget who, but someone likened Hamas to the Israelis using a hammer to kill a mosquito on their forehead. Mostly they'd like to not be second clas
105 Quokkas : Perhaps the principal is no longer who it used to be. Do people recall that in a previous round of discussion with Israel, Obama offered a bribe to N
106 Post contains links NAV20 : Oddly enough, there is in fact an almost exact parallel in relatively recent times - the Warsaw Ghetto. Large numbers of Jews being 'walled up' in a
107 DeltaMD90 : It is pretty similar, but comparing the innocent Jews in the 1940s with the Palestinians that have committed real crimes kinda makes us sound biased
108 Post contains images PHX787 : Israel's attack was reactionary to more rocket attacks inside Israeli territory, so your statement is false.
109 Post contains images NAV20 : The parallel 'covers' that aspect too, DeltaMD90. The people in the ghetto eventually took up arms and started shooting:- "However, the remaining Jew
110 BMI727 : But mostly not at civilians.
111 jfk69 : I don't really agree. the Israelis are not shooting random Palestinians because they are not Jews. The Germans killed them because they were Jews. As
112 Post contains images Mir : That statement is not compatible with this one: Israel will not find peace by inflicting pain on Gaza. It will not happen. The Palestinians want a be
113 Post contains links NAV20 : You could sure have fooled me......... "ISRAELI air strikes overnight killed 31 Palestinians in the bloodiest day so far of its massive air campaign
114 Quokkas : In the latest round of fighting the majority of civilians have been killed as a result of Israeli strikes. Israel justifies this, while saying it is
115 DeltaMD90 : I am a critic of Israel's actions, but there is a BIG difference between them and what the Nazis did. They at least aren't targeting civilians (it is
116 Post contains links TheCommodore : If only! Yes, but there are a fair few Palestinians who are innocent too.Nearly 50% the population of 1.6 million in Gaza, are children, so there a f
117 DeltaMD90 : Yes I know, sorry if I implied otherwise I've seen some shady things, but I don't think they'd intentionally kill civilians. They don't have hearts o
118 BMI727 : I meant in the Warsaw ghetto. That's the difference between that and the Palestinians: the Jews in Warsaw were mostly not shooting at Polish or Germa
119 Post contains links DocLightning : http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...ed_n_2155932.html?utm_hp_ref=world "We need to flatten entire neighborhoods." The little dirty secret that nobo
120 NAV20 : Sorry I 'flew off the handle' a bit, guys, but I am a bit of a rarity among A.netters - in that I've been bombed myself in my time. Mostly it was a ma
121 TheCommodore : NAV20, defiantly no need for apologies, at least not from where I stand. In ALL your posts, not only in this thread about Israel, but previous ones t
122 Post contains links and images zkojq : Death toll so far for the most recent part of the conflict: Palestinians/Gazans: 92 Israelis: 4 or 5 Interestingly. The total fatalities in the histor
123 casinterest : Let's see.. Palestinians circumvent embargo to get missiles. Launch missiles at Israel. Demand removal of embargo to stop firing missiles. I have symp
124 NAV20 : Yes, not very accurate. I met my share of people who were involved. The British flew mostly by night (until late in the War, anyway). They almost nev
125 Dreadnought : Which is why, under the Geneva Conventions and other international agreements, a) belligerents have a duty to base themselves and their activities aw
126 jfk69 : From your own article: "The Associated Press reports that the deadly incident occurred after Palestinian resistance fighters fired an anti-tank missi
127 PanHAM : they can acknowledge and guarantee the existance of Israel once and forever and then the move is with Israel. The coward Arafat did npot sign the Cam
128 damirc : Do you actually know what he was supposed to give up in that agreement? It was utterly unfair to the Palestinian people and was not acceptable by any
129 caliatenza : my question is this..in some of the reports im reading about the fighting...they said kids are women are near the media offices of Hamas and Islamic J
130 Post contains links jfk69 : Here is a fun one from those lovely journalists at the BBC.....Report first...facts later http://bbcwatch.org/2012/11/19/bbcs-...son-tweets-malicious-
131 Mortyman : Well Gaza is a small place with a large population. Not many places to hide, whoever you are unfortunetly ... This is a very important point. Israel
132 kachum : Having been to such cocktail parties myself, I would dare to suggest that this is a pathology, not a norm. But surely you will agree that the moment
133 Post contains links and images TheCommodore : Sorry, misunderstood you, therefore posted wrong link. Hamas might be the intended target in Gaza by the IDF, but with a land mass size of only 136sq
134 jfk69 : But you know what the difference is? The Israelis will actually handle this and put Justice to the situation instead of making these thugs heroes and
135 DeltaMD90 : Ugh... so many posts here, so many people either blindly defending one side or the other. THAT is why peace is so hard, neither side is owning up to t
136 Post contains images damirc : Unfortunately very true. I am sorry to say but I feel I need to defend the Palestinians - they are the weaker party in this (and guilty as well as th
137 par13del : Being snippy, the Brits were actually abusing the human rights of their prisoners by having them work on the infrastructure of their enemy?????? Yes,
138 Post contains links TheCol : Looks like Hezbollah wants to start another war from their end as well: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Sec...s+south+Lebanon/7570317/story.html This
139 DeltaMD90 : Yeah and ironically I actually support Israel. But I support Palestine as well (I feel that you can support both, you don't need to be a slave to eit
140 kachum : Ok, I will bite. What is so wrong about settlement building in the area that you won in the defensive war, then offered to give it back right away in
141 lewis : The West Bank has never formally been annexed by Israel. It is a piece of land that an occupying force is controlling through military means, against
142 DeltaMD90 : Thanks for responding. I will admit that I am not a subject matter expert and any person on this forum has the ability to sway my decision (I'm open
143 par13del : Are you saying that if Israel annexed the West Bank and Gaza strip it would be ok to build?
144 lewis : No, my whole point in bringing this up is that by not being annexed, the territory is in legal terms an occupied territory, therefore such settlement
145 caliatenza : The settllements need to go...thats the main thing. If the Palestinians can some find a way to make sure that the violence wouldnt start up after the
146 kachum : In 1967 after the war, Israel offered all territories gained in the war back in exchange for the recognition and piece treaty with arab countries. The
147 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Exactly right, IMO, DeltaMD90. I think myself that we are facing something that has never happened before; literally 'a war without end.' In the case
148 damirc : Weasel formulation. Israel was prepared to return the Sinai Peninsula to Egypt and the Golan Heights to Syria, in return for signed peace treaties. S
149 DeltaMD90 : Well this is a HUGE red flag. How can we possibly apply what the Palestinians did *45* years ago to today???
150 Post contains links TheCommodore : If only. He makes it sound like that.... Israel refused to give back lands unconditionally A short summation of what occurred in the 67 war http://ww
151 kachum : How can it possibly apply? In every possible way. The same way it applies in any other such conflict in the history. Acts have consequences. Several t
152 Post contains links caliatenza : Israeli Air Force Ensures Area is Clear of Civilians Before Striking Terrorists http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=G6a112wRmBs
153 Post contains links caliatenza : and this one too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgHyT3FzTF8 the IAF aborts a strike when they see civilians walking near a target.
154 DeltaMD90 : No, I do not buy that at all. Circumstances can change in a matter of days, try 45 years. How does the reluctance of Palestinian leaders back then (w
155 lewis : The reason Israel has not annexed those territories is because they can't, unless you know of a way that would not involve exterminating the local po
156 Post contains images PHX787 : the sad truth. How about we send you to Israel to negotiate this? that may be good Apparently, according to news, Israel is going to initiate, or has
157 Post contains links caliatenza : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWJFC98jPrQ&feature=related The Vice Guide to the Gaza Strip. I think this was posted on here before, but nonethele
158 Quokkas : Calling for negotiations based on the 1967 Borders, as both the PLO and Hamas have repeatedly done is effective recognition of Israel. What they have
159 Post contains links and images zkojq : Lots of interesting stats compiled by The Economist: http://www.economist.com/blogs/pomeg...te/2012/11/israel-and-palestinians I never said it was a p
160 powerslide : Those bombings are precision strikes, not random attacks against random civilian targets. Every bomb strike has a purpose and a target. Hamas randoml
161 Mir : Every international agreement on the Israel-Palestine peace process has been firm on the fact that Israel's settlements in the West Bank must at mini
162 YVRLTN : For the same reason countries are named "Islamic Republic of...." There are countries where Islam is part of the constitution. There are countries wh
163 Post contains links TheCommodore : Ummmmm Speaking of international rules..... Who broke the Geneva, and used white Phosphorous bombs against the Palestinians, 3 years ago in Gaza ? Do
164 PanHAM : wrong attitude. See what they would have gained and still can gain once they have jumped over that stick. Peace and prosperity. Simple as that. If th
165 DocLightning : I would agree, but it is a shockingly common pathology. And Jewish extremists are the scariest of all because they are so calmly certain. Christian e
166 Quokkas : Which rules would they be? Although Israel is a signatory to the Geneva Conventions I-IV those conventions are only "binding" in instances of armed c
167 Post contains links NAV20 : Finally looks as if a ceasefire is imminent - announcement probably on Wednesday. It's customary, in diplomacy, for the 'top people' (Clinton and Ban
168 PanHAM : To import ship loads of Iranian medium and long range missiles? The Palestinians would need a couple of decaeds of self imposed peacefulness to earn
169 Post contains links NAV20 : If Al-Arabiya (and The Australian) have got it right (they're both pretty reliable), it looks as if the only thing that has been agreed so far is inde
170 Post contains links jfk69 : Not sure how to post a picture but this was just posted by Anderson Cooper on twitter: Anderson Cooper ‏@andersoncooper Men dragging body behind mot
171 DeltaMD90 : What is Israel to do against the threat of open borders = the possibility of heavy weapons coming into Palestine? I do believe that is a legitimate th
172 Post contains links SOBHI51 : Seems some kind of cease-fire should have started 15 minutes ago. http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/20/wo...israel-strike/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
173 DocLightning : Yeah, just like the gang of three men who beat up my friend's 5'0" mother in a store after 9/11 because she dared to wear her hijab. Thuggery occurs
174 something : Not everyone has drones, you know.
175 par13del : Well I guess same old same old, every agreement so far has always been the same. Israel will stop firing, stones will still be thrown and shots fired
176 Revelation : Egypt has more or less admitted they cannot control what happens in the Sinai. How are they ever going to guarantee no arms imports? Smuggling will b
177 Post contains links jfk69 : Yup, getting beat up in a store is compared to being dragged through the streets after being executed. This time it was for possibly spying....Next t
178 DocLightning : The difference is honestly whether you're likely to get caught and prosecuted.
179 NAV20 : The present situation is that Gaza is completely 'sealed off' to the west, north, and east. The Israeli Navy blockades the coast and allows no ships
180 DeltaMD90 : Fair enough, but you can't expect ALL weapon smuggling to go down. No matter the situation, there will always be people that hate the Israelis. How c
181 Post contains images NAV20 : Since Israel is still bombing the s**t out of them as we post, I don't see how that can be avoided (in the short term, anyway)? But Israel would do w
182 caliatenza : Maybe the UN can keep a watch on the seas and borders?? I think Israel asked that either Fatah (PA) or Egypt be put in charge of policing Hamas
183 Post contains links Quokkas : This is possible. But it is also likely that if recognised and given legitimate power Hamas will police acts of violence. We can see this already in
184 Post contains links TheCommodore : Here is a list of goods banned by the Israelis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_a...wed_or_banned_for_import_into_Gaza I can think of one very good
185 Post contains links and images NAV20 : A new 'twist to the tale'? "Hamas has blamed Israel for delaying a ceasefire in Gaza, as the death toll on both sides continues to rise despite an int
186 par13del : Perhaps they should also try this with Iran?
187 DeltaMD90 : If I'm kinda reluctant to buy into this, well, optimal scenario, you know a great chunk of the country isn't. The notion that Hamas will become a pol
188 NAV20 : DeltaMD90, I'm no fan of Hamas myself - or of Netanyahu and Co. - but Clinton and the others can only work with the governments they have........... I
189 Post contains links and images TheCommodore : Not sure about this NAV Snakes a slippery things, as we both know living on OZ I'm guessing Bibi has another idea in mind, but what, Elections......
190 NAV20 : Not so sure, TheCommodore. He clearly hasn't 'won the war' in any decisive sense - maybe the voting public will conclude, over the next few weeks, th
191 Post contains images TheCol : Israel and Egypt heavily restrict travel and goods, but, up until now, the Gaza crossings on both sides have been open to essential goods (ie. food,
192 Post contains images TheCommodore : Well, your wiser, and older than me NAV So I'll be guided buy your good judgement of the matter, you might just be on to something there ? Yes, wont
193 Quokkas : Uncertain, true. But what is the alternative? More of the same? The choices appear to be: an all-out invasion designed to eliminate any potential org
194 N537FX : If they can smuggle in weapons, (large and heavy rockets) then they also can smuggle in any food/material they want as well. No reason for people the
195 Post contains links flanker : Masked gunmen publicly shot dead six suspected collaborators with Israel at a large Gaza City intersection Tuesday, witnesses said. An Associated Pres
196 Giancavia : Executing their own citizens infront of these "innocent women and children" they use whenever it suits them, without any kind of trial and dragging co
197 PanHAM : There is one word for that : Barbaric Gaza is not under democratic rule, Gaza is ruled by terrorists who kill and mutilate whoever is against them. t
198 caliatenza : Well they just bombed a bus in Tel Aviv....I guess the IDF is going to roll into Gaza pretty soon.
199 par13del : These two statements appear to be at odds with each other, in general they also go against the general thought here that the USA just cracks the whip
200 na : Extremists apparently think that rockets are more vital "food" than corn for their own women and children. As long as the majority of Palestinians gi
201 NAV20 : I hope it's fair to point out that, in terms of bombs and missiles, the current 'score' from bombs and missiles, in killed, is 139 Gazans, 5 Israelis
202 pvjin : So just because of Hamas and other radical organizations like this doing bad things we should automatically accept all the evil things done by United
203 PanHAM : I think it is fair to point out, that, without the currect missile attacks, before Israel hit back, there would not be a single casualty on both side
204 Post contains links and images zkojq : Interesting to see that some of Israel's latest targets include a bank and a media center. So much for not targeting civilians. Al Jazeera's Gaza beau
205 Quokkas : Maybe, maybe not. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Israel uses Administrative Detention Orders where it can hold "suspects" without trail for indefinite
206 Giancavia : Snore bore, Typical aplogist. Pick and choose, Hamas said it carried out a bomb attack on a bus full of "Innocent civilians". Hamas executed 6 "innoc
207 Giancavia : Where as Palestinian justice is nice and swift, 10 Militants, a street corner, some mobile phones and a quick death regardless of guilt.
208 pvjin : If they were indeed Israeli spies or aided Israelis they were by no means innocent. Do they have much of a choice? Sure they can't do their stuff on
209 PanHAM : Israel is ruled by the law, Gaza by Hamas. A country with such nice neighbours may not have the luxury to adopt the same legal standards as Australia
210 NAV20 : You're entitled to your opinion. par13del, but the 'two statements' were on different subjects. I was saying that the USA was pressing Netanyahu to m
211 Quokkas : @ Giancavia "quick death regardless of guilt". Stating what is the case does not imply acceptance of something that is equal or worse if carried out b
212 EDKA : Oh the usual numbers game.... How many more Israelis need to die for this to become "fair" in your eyes? 10? 20? 100?? Yesterday there were two direc
213 PanHAM : even if, it does in no way justify brutal killings by a mob. yes, for Israel it does not matter much where they fire the missiles from. If Hamas and
214 Post contains links MadameConcorde : Israel official: Sec. of State Clinton will announce 20:00 in Cairo on cease fire in Gaza Ceasefire reached between Israel and Hamas – reports Al Ar
215 na : One should not forget that - the Israelis ONLY target militants, but accept (well, have to accept as the Palestinian militants prefer to hide behind t
216 pvjin : Wrong, in the past Israelis have shown that they have no problem targeting also peacekeepers and others who could be threat to them by exposing their
217 par13del : The UN has been on the Israel / Lebanon border for millennia, and guess what, Israel and Hezbollah rolls over them, so I don't think the UN is a viab
218 Post contains images PHX787 : Ceasefire apparently announced.....this happens too often over there....both sides quarrel for like, 2 or 3 weeks, then a cease-fire. Let's hope the U
219 Dreadnought : Maybe we should stop insisting on a cease-fire and let them sort it out between themselves once and for all. Just a thought...
220 pvjin : Yeah that would be okay but only if Palestinians were first given as good weapons and military & financial aid as Israel receives. After that the
221 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Anyone have a link for Israel's red alert live feeds? BREAKING : The Israeli Occupation Forces Broke the ( Fire Truce Agreement ) 15 Minutes after is
222 Post contains links jfk69 : Looks like Hamas fired rockets afterwards as well. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4310174,00.html And really, the Israeli Occupation force
223 Post contains links TheCommodore : Glad you brought this up par13del. Egypt is another shining example of how the US has propped up crony corrupt Governments for decades, without so mu
224 na : One with many more deaths thats the only thing that would be sure. To call a war with equal strengths "fair" is theoretically right, but in reality a
225 Post contains links NAV20 : One particular paragraph caught my eye in this Al Zajeera report:- "Under the ceasefire terms, Israel was to stop all aggression against the Gaza Stri
226 par13del : In recent times this targeting of specific individuals has been Israel's most feared weapon, I am not surprised that it is included in the cease fire
227 Quokkas : See previous posts regarding current dispossession of Palestinians from their homes. This is not something that just happened 3 - 4 decades ago but i
228 Post contains links NAV20 : Agree entirely, Quokkas - a monstrous injustice that the 'relevant authorities' do nothing at all about. I'm afraid that I have further bad news. I f
229 jfk69 : Government forces just bombed a hospital in Aleppo Syria......just curious where the uproar is from the Arab league? Where is the flotilla of aid from
230 Post contains links Quokkas : Syria has been suspended from the Arab League. The Arab League has been working with the US and other western countries to bring about change in Syri
231 Post contains links and images TheCommodore : Then it should come as no surprise to you that innocent civilians Will be hit, just because there is no real, secure, place to shelter. Ever heard of
232 Post contains images PHX787 : Jesus Christ OK We need third party intervention- non-militaristic intervention.... Where the heck is China or India when we need them to intervene a
233 powerslide : Palestinians don't deserve aid beyond what they get now. When they smarten up and elect a government that isn't a terrorist organization then maybe s
234 PanHAM : such replies makes my stomach turn. Who says they were guilty? Would you consider a mob a fair trial? Would you consider a brutal killing a fair sent
235 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Ground invasion order was canceled twice at the last minute Translation from Maariv via Google Translate Command to enter the ground was twice cancele
236 Post contains links Quokkas : There is a saying amongst Arabs in Palestine: الرئيس هو في واد، والشعب الفلسطيني في آخر The President is in one vall
237 Post contains links and images zkojq : Good to see that the ceasefire agreement is holding. Seems to work fine in Israel. Seems to work in Iran; despite all the sanctions and such, their un
238 NAV20 : See Post 228 above, zkojq - unfortunately, Israel seems to have succeeded in keeping anything definite about more Gazan contact with the outside worl
239 Post contains images zkojq : Forgot to mention in the previous post: the historical foundation for the demolition of Palestinian homes comes from back in the late 1940s. Terroris
240 EDKA : Not sure i understand the point of your question. I am not the one trying to somehow compare the numbers on both sides. For me, all loss of innocent
241 par13del : The old sayings that number can be used to show whatever one would like, if one takes number number of persons based on a percentage of the populatio
242 Post contains images PHX787 : When you have a terrorist group that took over a peaceful government by a coup, you should not give them squat.
243 damirc : I'll just say this (warning: wall of text follows)... In history there were many times when people had the chance to stop something bad from going on,
244 777way : My favourite line from the TV series 'Revenge' quoting Amanda aka Emily Thorne "When everything you love has been stolen from you, sometimes all you h
245 powerslide : You mean protecting themselves from terrorism and extermination at the hands of the Arabs? After 2000 years the Jews finally have a means to shoot ba
246 damirc : No, going way overboard defending themselves. Stealing land ad nauseam. Enough. D.
247 na : Well that depends on the way the "revenge" is executed. If its terrorism of any kind, especially against the civilian population, I say no. No matter
248 sbworcs : Your posts seem to indicate you would relish the death of many. How on earth will that be constructive?
249 777way : She also said "“For the truly wronged, real satisfaction can only be found in one of two places: absolute forgiveness or mortal vindication. This i
250 Post contains links TheCommodore : Yes they do don't they, and isn't it such a shame that this conflict, has led to this. There are wrongs on both sides as we all understand, but when
251 powerslide : Something a Hamas sympathizer would say. The bombing and invasion of the Gaza strip in order prevent and/or limit the attacks on Israel is nothing mo
252 damirc : Thank you. I despise all violence. I never served in the army, but had the "privilege" of being a civilian in a war situation. I am done with this th
253 cmf : To those you call terrorists, the terrorists are those you think are right. So when you say don't show mercy, you actually justify hamas actions. Gre
254 Post contains links NAV20 : I was hoping just as hard, zkojq. But this story confirms my suspicions:- "Hamas, the Islamist group that controls the coastal strip, persuaded Gazan
255 TheCol : Only a fool would equate that show to reality. Bottom Line: Revenge breeds hate. Hate is like Cancer. There comes a point of no return where no amoun
256 777way : The show maybe unreal but the quotes are very true you have to experience things to know that even religious teachings at times need to be sidelined j
257 powerslide : You'd rather have them take up arms, like dumb fools, knowing full well that they won't get anywhere by fighting Israel? Aggression vs. Israel via vi
258 Flighty : There is a path to peace and Israeli success. Indeed. Israel has no special right to just utter slurs such as "terrorist" or "madman barbarian" or wh
259 Post contains links TheCommodore : Don't give up hope just yet.... http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ticle.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10849506
260 777way : better thank sitting around like dumb fools, atleast there is some satisfaction of having done some harm in someway, however small it maybe.
261 zkojq : Agreed. No, I certainly am not suggesting that they are innocent civilians and thus wouldn't shed a tear if they were killed. Same goes for some of t
262 par13del : The two territories are already seperated by geography, that in and of itself is a problem that also has to be delt with, but there are more importan
263 Post contains links powerslide : Both have a right to defend themselves, but don't go crying to mommy when one side is smarter, more advanced and has a professional, functioning mili
264 Post contains links damirc : Learn your history. The Warsaw ghetto uprising was doomed to end in bloodshed, but needed to be done. The Treblinka and Sobibor uprisings were doomed
265 cmf : A good example of the biggest stick is right philosophy some people here advocate, as long as it fit their goals...
266 aerorobnz : Sit back and enjoy the fireworks folks.... Just leave them to it and just let them kill each other - If it won't end until everyone from both sides is
267 Post contains links NAV20 : Can't agree, per13del - they actually got 'separated' not by 'geography,' but by politics and religious prejudice. Until 1948 Palestine was one count
268 pvjin : Yeah, but first Palestinians should be armed as well as Israelis are, that would make the fight much more fair and hopefully also cause more destruct
269 Post contains links damirc : I would disagree with this. More death and destruction won't solve the reality at hand. Israeli is in the unique and precarious situation of being su
270 PanHAM : @pvjin - such contributions as your 268 actually do not deserve a reply. Checking your age bracket in your profile I wonder what the drinking age is i
271 Post contains images moo : Saw this in my twitter feed just now
272 Post contains links and images NAV20 : I know that your comments are sincere and well-meant, damirc, but a simple examination of the population figures show that any such 'solution' (I use
273 DeltaMD90 : Oh brother, that's just sick. I used to see you as "just another opinion" but recently you're showing an extremist-like side. I prefer the least amou
274 Post contains images zkojq : Plenty of this going on yet the Israel apologists will keep telling us that Israel practices 'rule of law'. And the local Palestinian population is s
275 NAV20 : Exactly so - I've never doubted that the objective of the Israeli leaders - and very probably that of most ordinary Israelis - has always been, over
276 PanHAM : Don't you realize that such thinking is backwards a couple of centuries? After the horrors of 2 world wars and the holocaust your "solution" is to go
277 damirc : Could I ask you nicely, that you refrain from such statements? The opposing side of the argument may say that all of the settlers pushing onto stolen
278 Post contains images NAV20 : Of course - that's why I wrote in the past tense..... Thanks for making the point for me, damirc. Yes indeed - the perennial regional shortage of wat
279 Post contains links and images damirc : Gladly http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4281127,00.html does point to the same study showing that the West Bank has lost access to 82% of it
280 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Ehud Barak resigns - Says leaving politics for good. Israel Defense Minister Ehud Barak announced Monday that he is resigning from politics and will n
281 Post contains links NAV20 : Have to disagree, damirc. Any 'historic connection' to Palestine was around 2,000 years ago. There is no record of any Palestinian Jews dying in the
282 damirc : True, that the historic connection is 2000 years old, but be realistic - there was no real place in Europe for them to resettle to (at least none tha
283 moo : There were plenty of border changes brought about by the end of WW2, and several countries lost quite a bit of territory - that hasn't caused any maj
284 Mir : What has not fighting Israel gotten the Palestinians in the West Bank? Have the settlements stopped? Is a lasting peace agreement anywhere in sight?
285 Post contains links and images damirc : It doesn't look too good for the Palestinian Authority to have it's status upgraded to non-member observer later this week. Lobbying is underway ... h
286 Post contains links TheCommodore : Well, according to the SMH, they are somewhat more bullish than the Jpost. "There are no vetoes in the General Assembly and the resolution, which nee
287 DeltaMD90 : I don't know, and I really hate generalizing and over-simplifying things, but it appears that (simply) anything that is even remotely pro-Palestinian
288 Post contains links Quokkas : The Guardian is reporting that Britain might vote in support of the Palestinian bid. However, this is said to be based on the Palestinians being ready
289 DeltaMD90 : I'm not too familiar with the inner workings of the UN... is this vote one of the votes that the US can simply veto and stop, or is it just a majorit
290 TheCommodore : On this matter it is. Majority rules, despite what the US thinks. However, from the article I posted, it seems as though the US is working overtime,
291 Quokkas : Votes in the General Assembly are on the basis of majorities but its resolutions are not binding. It can adopt resolutions and make recommendations b
292 DeltaMD90 : Ah yes, sorry, should know this. Still probably know more about the UN than most the US population, sadly I can imagine. I know we have some crazy le
293 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Not all hope is lost! Tzipi Livni returns to Israel politics with new party The former Israeli foreign minister, Tzipi Livni, has announced her return
294 Post contains links Quokkas : The Australian Government has announced that it will abstain when it comes to the vote on the admission of Palestine as a non-member State. Apparently
295 Post contains links and images TheCommodore : Its starting to look even better for the Palestinians and the vote. The French have decided support it. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ticle.
296 DeltaMD90 : What, may I ask, is the main reason for opposing a Palestinian state? Are there fears it would make Palestine stronger and more able to attack Israel?
297 Dreadnought : The issue is that whenever the Israelis back away, Palestinians respond by throwing more bombs. look at what happened in Gaza - Israel withdrew unila
298 Post contains links damirc : And then there is the West Bank, where the Palestinians are relatively peaceful and are being rewarded by new settlers perpetually. Yesterday Palesti
299 Post contains links and images TheCommodore : As I understand it (See link for the explanation) I think its primary something to do with the US Senate, not being able to give aid money to the Pal
300 Post contains images zkojq : A genocide does not make a people above the law, or give them the right to act as if they are. Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining, NAV20. Ye
301 Post contains links and images MadameConcorde : Israel carries out ground incursion into Lebanon ... The Lebanese Army and the UN's international peacekeeping force in Lebanon, UNIFIL are on high al
302 powerslide : They will never get control until they show they can act like human beings and not animals. Launching rockets into Israel won't get them sovereignty,
303 damirc : Maybe the world could start by treating them like humans then. Judging by how Israel put pressure on the British in the 1940s, it does seem to have w
304 powerslide : They haven't earned that right yet. Seems to be working for Gaza...ha. You read that wrong. "your guys" was in relation to hamas, not you.
305 DeltaMD90 : I hope you're wrong because that reason is pretty ridiculous You realize they are pissed off and acting up because they're being treated poorly? It i
306 TheCol : Kind of hard to establish a Palestinian state when the West Bank and Gaza are operating as 2 separate entities, controlled by 2 different factions. E
307 lewis : Shall we start counting all the countries that were established and recognized after going through a revolution and/or armed conflict against what th
308 Mir : Don't be ridiculous. They earned that right by being born. -Mir
309 Post contains links and images TheCommodore : Ridiculous is an understatement alright ! Anyways........New developments on the Palestinian UN bid front. Looks like Israel might be backing down so
310 powerslide : By whom? The Israelis or the rest of the Arab world. Iran sending weapons isn't exactly helping the quality of life of the Palestinians. Israel aren'
311 lewis : It won't be the first case of two separated pieces of land being governed by the same entity. Take Alaska for the US, Kaliningrad for Russia and Gibr
312 damirc : Bad quality of life and the situation they are in at the moment (including the Hamas leadership) can largely be attributed to Israel, I'm afraid. (no
313 DeltaMD90 : I don't know what to tell you... obviously the Palestinians are pissed and lashing out. You can justify it all you want and not work on rectifying th
314 Post contains links powerslide : Thankfully, Canada isn't backing down. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/baird-going...inian-statehood-bid-012545395.html Gaza has no place in the UN as long a
315 Post contains links and images TheCommodore : Oh powerslide, I know you really want to believe that, but it will eventually happen, after today, the Palestinians are one step closer....... Just a
316 DeltaMD90 : I can see this concern as legitimate. It is probably the only anti-Palestinian argument I've seen that holds water. Ultimately, though, I think that
317 Post contains images TheCol : That's generally how it works. They'll have to defeat Hamas and the Islamofacist militias, and play nicely with everyone else, before a Palestinian s
318 lewis : Not the point I was making at all, obviously you know that too, but whatever works for you.
319 lewis : Want a bet? I am sorry poweslide, but your comments are beyond barbaric, borderline racist/supremacist if you ask me - portraying people in such a su
320 jetblueguy22 : This thread has run it's course and will be locked to all further posts. Blue
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