LFutia From Netherlands, joined Dec 2002, 3196 posts, RR: 30 Posted (7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1296 times:
Hostess, the maker of Twinkies and all the other delicious snacks, will be closing for good which will result in a loss of 18,000 jobs after a labour strike, and looming deadline for those to return to work never happened.
Leo/ORD
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
dcann40 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 303 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1302 times:
I just saw the article in the WSJ
Quote: Hostess Brands Inc., the maker of iconic treats such as Twinkies and traditional pantry staple Wonder Bread, said Friday it is shuttering its plants and will seek to liquidate the 82-year-old business.
[image] Reuters
Hostess Brands is seeking to liquidate.
The company, which filed for Chapter 11 in January, said it has requested bankruptcy-court authorization to close the business and sell its assets.
A victim of changing consumer tastes, high commodity costs and, most importantly, strained labor relations, Hostess ultimately was brought to its knees by a national strike orchestrated by its second-largest union. ...
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 7900 posts, RR: 22 Reply 4, posted (7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1303 times:
The company was already under bankruptcy protection and desperately trying to restructure its business in order to survive. The company’s delivery drivers are Teamsters, who voted by a narrow margin to take a pay cut and benefit renegotiations in September rather than have the drivers lose their jobs in a down market. But the Bakery union say “No way” and decided on a strike rather than take a pay cut and reduced benefits.
I guess elections DO have consequences....92% voted to reject the contract....100% now out of work. I bet those Teamsters drivers are happy with the Bakery union tonight.
stlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8994 posts, RR: 27 Reply 5, posted (7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1301 times:
Gee, what are they going to deep fry now at the Iowa State Fair?
But on a serious note, a lot of vendors do make a living literally by traveling the country every summer serving up Hostess products deep fried, baked, sizzled, etc. etc. -- and now they're pretty much screwed as well. Shame.
Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
Nitrohelper From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 464 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1303 times:
Some other bakers will purchase parts of the company - Twinkies will survive along with some of the other best sellers...
Probably will be made by non-union workers...
aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8394 posts, RR: 47 Reply 8, posted (7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1303 times:
"Tallahassee" is NOT going to like this!
Quoting cmf (Reply 6): So a company is in C11 for the second time in less than 10 years but the "only" problem is that workers went on strike...
Obviously. Something stinks to high heaven, particularly when you consider these parts of the WSJ article:
Quote: On the one hand, the names have decades of brand equity, and there is "pretty significant demand" for the products, according to Mr. Rayburn.
(...)
But Hostess has threatened liquidation before in the case—and during its last stint in Chapter 11—and not followed through.
If you "have" to liquidate a business whose products are selling well and have already been in Chapter 11 protection before (which you shouldn't have left without completing all necessary restructuring), you're doing something fundamentally wrong.
Quoting cmf (Reply 6): End what obviously was a dead man walking.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
blueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3160 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1300 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 3): Jesus I thought unions were supposed to protect jobs no lose them.
Maybe the membership decided to do what others have been unwilling to do in similar situation, draw a line in the sand and refuse to watch as pay and benefits are dragged down for everyone.
Their gambit comes at the expense of the Hostess employees, but employees at other food manufacturers aren't going to be told their pay and benefits need to be cut in line with Hostess', unlike what has happened to a lot of other professions, chief among them pilots and flight attendants.
Besides, the company tried this... negotiation tactic once before but didn't follow up on its threat to close when employees called their bluff, so you can be forgiven for employees not taking it seriously this time.
Quoting Nitrohelper (Reply 7): Probably will be made by non-union workers...
Not sure, depends where the plants are. Of course, a buyer could get the brand and formulation only and move production to right-to-work states, but they would lose valuable time and store shelves hate a vacuum...
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 7900 posts, RR: 22 Reply 11, posted (7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1300 times:
Quoting L-188 (Reply 9): But most of the hostess brands will surivive. They are assets that will be sold to pay debts.
Yep. The brand and/or the specific product rights (like Twinkie) will be sold to Nestle, United Biscuit and other such companies, the debt and shareholders will get the proceeds of that and the workers will be left holding their ****s.
If this is not a textbook lesson of what happens when you have an outside business (in this case the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers' International Union, part of the AFL/CIO) brought in to "represent" workers, I don't know what is. Anyone care to bet that if Hostess' workers represented themselves (selected spokesmen, negotiators and leaders from among their own employees) that Hostess would still be around? When the union is entirely dependent on the survival of the company, they will be much more reasonable in their demands.
slider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6518 posts, RR: 36 Reply 12, posted (7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1299 times:
The dogs bark and the caravan marches on...
Another sterling example of the idiocy of unions. 80%+ of Americans don't even have a company funded pension and these morons were asked to kick in 2% more for it, as well as increased medical and insurance costs (which are, in case anyone has had their head in the sand, going up across the board for everyone, everywhere in the US).
So they killed the golden goose.
Funniest Tweet I read on the matter--- "Parasites always kill their Host(ess)"....
Too true. Once again, a death knell for unions. Hostess will have their assets purchased, the recipe for Twinkies and all that stuff will continue and 18,000 people are now out of a job. Welcome to Obama's Amerika, circa 2012.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16943 posts, RR: 57 Reply 13, posted (7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1303 times:
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11): If this is not a textbook lesson of what happens when you have an outside business (in this case the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers' International Union, part of the AFL/CIO) brought in to "represent" workers, I don't know what is. Anyone care to bet that if Hostess' workers represented themselves (selected spokesmen, negotiators and leaders from among their own employees) that Hostess would still be around? When the union is entirely dependent on the survival of the company, they will be much more reasonable in their demands.
So what is your answer to the fact that the company has been in CH 11 twice in ten years and yet they sell a ridiculously fast-selling product?
Is that also the fault of the union?
What possible benefit would AFL/CIO have from sinking companies like this? It means less union dues for them and now the brand may re-open non-unionized. See, there's accusing them of being self-interested and then there's accusing them of being wantonly evil without motive.
flipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1529 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1301 times:
Quoting slider (Reply 12): The dogs bark and the caravan marches on...
Another sterling example of the idiocy of unions. 80%+ of Americans don't even have a company funded pension and these morons were asked to kick in 2% more for it, as well as increased medical and insurance costs (which are, in case anyone has had their head in the sand, going up across the board for everyone, everywhere in the US).
So they killed the golden goose.
Funniest Tweet I read on the matter--- "Parasites always kill their Host(ess)"....
Too true. Once again, a death knell for unions. Hostess will have their assets purchased, the recipe for Twinkies and all that stuff will continue and 18,000 people are now out of a job. Welcome to Obama's Amerika, circa 2012.
Surely thats just capitalism and they weren't strong enough to survive? You should be praising this as it will make everything stronger overall.
tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 4667 posts, RR: 7 Reply 15, posted (7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1298 times:
Quoting slider (Reply 12): Too true. Once again, a death knell for unions. Hostess will have their assets purchased, the recipe for Twinkies and all that stuff will continue and 18,000 people are now out of a job. Welcome to Obama's Amerika, circa 2012.
Yes, during this second half of President Obama's time in office the economy will continue to strengthen and economics will continue to function and inefficient and poorly run companies will continue to fail and successful brands will be bought by other companies and continue on.
Funny because I would have thought you would have claimed that President Obama will step in an protect those union jobs. But good to see you didn't.
Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
I guess potheads will have to confine themselves to the cheese nachos at 7-Eleven now.
Either that or that inferior "Miss Debbie" stuff.
Sad to say I grew up on junk food, the "real lunch" at high school was more than my lunch money would support, so it was a small milk and a Hostess product or two for me.
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 7900 posts, RR: 22 Reply 18, posted (7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1298 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13): So what is your answer to the fact that the company has been in CH 11 twice in ten years and yet they sell a ridiculously fast-selling product?
Is that also the fault of the union?
Hostess was in an extremely competitive business. We aren't talking about 80% margins and huge cash generation like in other businesses. I've worked in FMCG (with Nabisco), and margins are thin - very thin in the confectionery business. You can't just cease revenue generation for a week or two and expect that the company can just brush it off.
Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 14): Surely thats just capitalism and they weren't strong enough to survive? You should be praising this as it will make everything stronger overall.
Generally you are right, but that is small comfort to the workers involved - particularly the ones who voted against the strike or were not part of that union.
tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 4667 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1297 times:
Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 16): I'll miss the Donut Gems. Cherry Pies, Snowballs and Ding Dongs.
Don't worry, you won't. The brands will go on, perhaps even still under the name "Hostess". All the assets will be sold and some smart company will buy the already existing market and your favorites will go on as usual.
Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
They do, but the election was not related to Twinkies, or Hostess. We have a Hostess bakery and this city is about as red as you can get.
Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
Yup another kill for orginized labor
As opposed to another kill by folks like Romney? Did you ever see the ad with the guy who was told to build a 30 foot stage, which was used the next day to tell the workers that the plant was closing and that they were fired? Guy talking about building their own coffin - thanks to Romney.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 11): Anyone care to bet that if Hostess' workers represented themselves (selected spokesmen, negotiators and leaders from among their own employees) that Hostess would still be around?
If they represented themselves then they would be working for minimum wage with zero benefits.
Maybe if we had a minimum wage that was above the poverty like (and a national public health care program) the need to protect workers would diminish.
casinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3341 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1298 times:
There has been great disturbance in the force, I must go make sure my Funyons and Cheetos are still safe.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
25 KiwiRob: Smartest thing that ever happened in the US in my lifetime.
26 srbmod: There's more than enough value in the brand portfolio of Hostess to resurrect the company or for someone to buy them out. They'll end up in the hands
27 Dreadnought: I was talking about the union elections, where A) they gave negotiation rights to an outside firm, with their own agenda, and B) where they voted 92%
28 Geezer: They definitely ARE Rob; Having been a dues paying member of the Teamsters for 41 years, here's my "best guess"; 18,000 union members who are now out
29 Silver1SWA: So twitter is full of reports of empty store shelves as everyone makes a mad dash for one last Twinkie. These fools just don't get it. The Twinkie wil
30 Revelation: Yeah, total buzz kill! Indeed. I just checked, and it seems Kellog's Pop Tarts are ok so far. Given how much preservatives are in the Hostess product
31 Geezer: A "minimum wage" above the poverty line........." following that line of "reasoning" to it's logical conclusion...........why not just have a "minimu
32 aloges: Hmm... wouldn't it be even more economical to dump them in the sea off the Japanese coast and wait for them to float across the ocean?
33 Ken777: Higher wages & benefits than the company would have paid otherwise. BTW, it doesn't seem that the company is managed very well - two previous fil
34 Dreadnought: Oh yeah, $0 is so good. And when $100K becomes minimum wage (Which works out to around $50 per hour), guess what happens to all the labor-intesive go
35 ltbewr: Most likely Bimbo Baking of Mexico, which bought up a number of regional bakery brands in the USA as well as selling products made in the USA under th
37 srbmod: I highly doubt that Federal regulators would allow them to acquire any Hostess Brand assets considering Bimbo Baking USA is the #1 company in that ma
38 johns624: Eveerybody is concentrating on Twinkies but a major part was Wonder Bread. who eats white bread anymore? Everybody is into wheat and rye. Also, many p
39 EA CO AS: Consumption of these products has been falling like a rock due to more health-conscious decisions by consumers.
40 Revelation: Twinkies are such a part of our culture. Here's a Twinkies joke: A young girl walks into a barber shop, eating Twinkies. The barber begins to cut her
41 seb146: Just before the Mayan calender ends. Well played, Mayans. Well played.
42 zippyjet: OMG! holy SH*T this is it the apocalypse/end days are already getting underway. Quick sheeple hoard those funky goodies chock full of chemicals I can'
43 seb146: For some of us, no more twinkies is a good thing. Doc knows what I am talking about. tryin' to lighten the mood....
44 QFA380: Gummi Bears for your confectionary needs?
45 Superfly: Will they get a bailout? Hostess is too big to fail.... But wait a minute. Wouldn't they be covered by Obamacare if they took a cut in benefits? So TH
46 MD-90: Hostess was paying its workers 35% more than the national average. No wonder they couldn't stay in business. http://www.thenewamerican.com/review...es
47 Dreadnought: Just a bit more information. The deal that the Union turned down, and would have saved the company, included "wage, benefit and work rule concessions
48 Ken777: There is this thing called inflation. My first car was a '68 BMW 2002 which was just over $3,000. Gas was about 32¢ a gallon. A well made suit (say
49 IMissPiedmont: And all this argument and bickering over a company that has probably already lined up a buyer. Not to mention, but I will, it is a company that makes
50 seb146: Here is how I see the right-wing plan in action: They don't want unions so workers can be paid less and have no benefits. Workers then have to pay hun
52 tugger: Are you serious? Many, many people still eat white bread and Twinkies and Ho-Ho's. I can't think of many people that don't buy white bread in additio
53 DocLightning: And pot just got legalized in two states. Go figure.
54 johns624: What I found so sad about this is not how much Hostess paid but how little the other workers are paid. $12 an hour with no benefits isn't much at all
55 PHX787: I always tell Union supporters, especially the ones who support strike action: Would you rather sacrifice some things and keep your job, or lose 18,0
56 Superfly: Hardly. As I said above, people need to exercise if they want to lose weight. As I said in reply #45; Hostess was popular with kids some 30+ years ag
57 iowaman: Six boxes of twinkies just sold on eBay for $202.50. http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-boxes-HOST...sh=item1c2d7770a5&autorefresh=true
58 Mir: Reportedly, they did triple their CEO's salary as they were going through bankruptcy earlier this year. Several other executives also received raises
59 WrenchBender: LMAO, we still have an ample supply up here and will have for a long time. Saputo makes Twinkies in the GWN under the Vachon brand name. http://www.c
60 zippyjet: What drugs did those E-Bay buyers take? The Honey Boo Boo gang of rednecks; that's their diet staple. With Hostess and Wonderbread gone they will be
61 RayChuang: Don't think Twinkies, Ho-Hos and Ding Dongs will be gone forever. These products have a LOT of production recognition in the USA (especially among the
62 Dreadnought: LOL! The Union is declaring victory in the case of Hostess. http://bangordailynews.com/2012/11/1...a-strong-message-of-union-resolve/ They do have a l
63 jetblueguy22: People are nuts. I remember when the xbox (possibly the Wii) came out someone bought the box for like 500 bucks! Now I'm trying my best here not to b
64 Dreadnought: It's the point I've been trying to make for years. It's one thing when workers organize within a company, elect spokesmen and negotiators from among
65 Geezer: Ken...... Anytime you have an employer paying below the poverty line you have various federal & state programs making up the difference. Stuff li
66 Revelation: See, it's not just the poor who vote for Santa Claus, these clowns gave themselves a raise during bankruptcy! So much for the makers vs the takers, h
67 Dreadnought: I've heard this twice now. Source please. Agency theory and Moral Hazard theory is wrong, he says. LOL! Such consultants work in the background, and
68 mt99: So guys. quick poll.. How many Hostess Products have you bought in 2012: mt99: 0 #lackofinnovation
69 Revelation: Nice to focus on the consultant side of the discussion instead of explaining how it benefits labor to be divided. How is it then that labor consultan
70 seb146: Corporations sure as hell won't take care of their workers! When a worker is being paid $8 an hour, has an education but also has to pay for housing,
71 Revelation: New York Times: The article also explains a lot of background people here seem to be ignoring. It really is a combination of coming out of the last B
72 Dreadnought: Unity within a company is fine. Unity with other companies' workforce is irrelevant. You mean the consultants hired by management? They will get call
73 Geezer: There's the beginning of the problem, right there! New York Times: [/quote] Giving the NYT as a "source" has about as much credibility as giving the
74 Ken777: They pretty well made their decision clear. But this is something like the second or third time in bankruptcy. Woner how much the "workers" gave up a
75 mt99: So did you buy Hostess products? or did you buy the competition? News flash Geezer: Price is very very rarely the #1 driver for a purchase....
76 WrenchBender: WrenchBender: 0, but if you really need a fix we still have Canadian Twinkies (for a price- Shipping Extra)
77 jpetekyxmd80: This is the absolute height unconscionable delusion and hypocrisy. Time, after time, after time we have all seen you post the most outrageous example
78 itsjustme: http://americablog.com/2012/11/hoste...Americablog+%28AMERICAblog+News%29 The CEO prior to the current one (a guy named Rayburn) not only tripled his
79 seb146: As long as there are unions, they will always blame the unions.
80 stratosphere: While I have my issues with particular unions..I can maybe relate to these people.. It doesn't matter if they made above industry average for their j
81 Geezer: I think I have already answered that question adequately.......... Charley
82 seb146: Try it from this angle: "Charity" can only help as much as people give. So, if masses of people are working just to survive, the "charities" do not h
83 SmithAir747: I love that photo (of the pallbearers carrying the Twinkie "casket" from church to hearse)! The photo made me think of something: Why has no casket m
84 Dreadnought: The overall ill health of the company was not all the union's fault, surely. But going on strike when times are tough is a severe blow. Your defence
85 Revelation: I agree going on strike during a poor economy isn't the most rational thought these people could have, but sometimes employees get to that point. One
86 blrsea: Apparently, Hostess is asking the bankruptcy judge to allow giving bonuses to 14 executives who will oversee the bankruptcy! Unions fight bonuses for
87 Dreadnought: You always do that for the people who shut the doors - conditional on their staying until they are no longer needed. For instance, a CFO might be nee
88 EA CO AS: I have a real problem with this "living wage" bullshit; there's no such thing. There are wages, plain and simple. A wage is an agreed-upon amount of
89 jpetekyxmd80: I can't understand the people who are both anti-union and anti-minimum wage (or any form of 'living wage'). Do you really want neither to exist? You'd
90 EA CO AS: Tell me what you'd define as a "living" wage; be specific.
91 jpetekyxmd80: I don't know, i've heard that used in several different ways, particularly in areas with a very high cost of living. I don't know how to define that o
92 Geezer: As for your question; I don't think I've bought anything made by Hostess in the last 40 years; I'm not "into" cup cakes, twinkles, dong dongs ? (yuk)
93 cmf: No, they do not always do that. That would be true if both sides negotiated as equals.
94 Ken777: Or the Court can kick them out and bring in others - who will probably do as good a job as well as find a LOT of abuses in the company's books. Start
95 seb146: So, even if I have a masters degree and a family of six, I can walk into a McDonalds, be offered employment and say "By the way, I need to be paid $2
96 Geezer: Seb; You're all for making profits ? How ? How do you propose to make that profit ? Let's start all over. First; someone has convinced you that all c
97 jpetekyxmd80: And the same people who always hate unions, and don't want anything like the minimum wage also hate social programs and want to gut that government sp
98 EA CO AS: You CAN do that if you choose, yes. Not sure why you'd want to however, as your education would likely command you more than McDonald's would be will
99 seb146: Gotta pay the bills. If no one is hiring in your field and you wanna get off "big gub'mint" then you gotta do something! But, it is the worker's faul
100 Revelation: That's exactly what's going on here. Management offered the workers a wage (actually a contract with both wage and benefit cuts!) and labor refused t
101 cmf: Why don't we see you propose that throughout the organisation chart
102 Dreadnought: Well, first of all, Mitt was not recommending liquidation - just bankruptcy and reorganization, with the consumer guarantees being backed up by Feder
103 mt99: There are cameras that are less that $100. For the purpose of taking pictures you can use one of these $7.99 at Walgreens You choose to pay more more
104 EA CO AS: While regrettable, what's inherently "wrong" with any of this? Both sides decided they couldn't accept the terms of the other and agreed to part ways
105 seb146: Like BECU? Boeing Employee Credit Union is one of the largest financial services divisions. And still, the right hates unions and blames unions for e
106 Dreadnought: Are you saying that all pensions are in the hands of independent financial institutions? That BECU provides predetermined fixed incomes in perpetuity
107 Revelation: Such pensions came about because Management/Ownership offered them as a way to attract employees, just like health insurance, so it's preposterous to
108 Dreadnought: Correct - they were an early form of retirement benefits initiated (in their current form) during the industrial revolution when the only direction w
109 jetblueguy22: The discussion has turned away from the Hostess closure to a union/political debate. This thread will be locked. Blue
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Something stinks to high heaven, particularly when you consider these parts of the WSJ article:
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