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F1 2012: United States Grand Prix  
User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1578 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2445 times:
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Austin F1 2012 Grand Prix

Circuit of the Americas, Austin, Texas

Circuit Length 5.516kms
56 laps
Circuit Turns 20
Circuit Direction anti-clockwise
Capacity 100,000
Established 2012
Designer Hermann Tilke

Fri 16 November 2012
Practice 1 09:00 - 10:30
Practice 2 13:00 - 14:30
Sat 17 November 2012
Practice 3 09:00 - 10:00
Qualifying 12:00
Sun 18 November 2012
Race 13:00


I'm sure a certain madame concorde will kee you all updated as things come in, if not I'll have a go.

Fred

P.S. I hope I kept the format right  

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Lets hope the championship is still a thriller AFTER this race.

User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1595 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

My bet, is that the 1st turn is going to end with a massive wreck on the 1st lap.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 2):
My bet, is that the 1st turn is going to end with a massive wreck on the 1st lap.

I hope you're wrong...I want to see Vettel beat Hamilton fair and square, not because Grosjean takes Hamilton out in the first lap  

I have to admit that I like the circuit layout, particularly the hill up the front straight (maybe the camera angle makes it look steeper than it actually is). Hopefully the circuit lends itself to produce some great on-track action...


User currently offline3DoorsDown From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Is Madame Concorde in Austin? Is that why she is not gracing us with her presence?  

User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2671 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
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Quoting Charles79 (Reply 3):
I have to admit that I like the circuit layout,

I quite like the circuit layout too. Hermann Tilke finally seems to be improving the art of circuit design  

But it's been mentioned that with the fast sweeping bends leading up to the DRS detection zone, it might be difficult for cars to keep within that 1 second mark for them to use the DRS on the back straight. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Glad to see Vettel on pole and Alonso starting back in 8th  



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Nothing is more boring in sport than to see the same man win all the time. That is especially the case, if the reason for it is not that he is the most talented guy, but because he´s got the best technics to help him. This season was was one of the most interesting in the last decade until the end of summer, but now I dont even care to watch a GP anymore. Its just technical overkill left of what was a real fight for 3/4 of the year.

User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Quoting na (Reply 6):

Nothing is more boring in sport than to see the same man win all the time. That is especially the case, if the reason for it is not that he is the most talented guy, but because he´s got the best technics to help him.


        

0.6 seconds faster than his team mate. Meanwhile GREATEST DRIVER EVER Alonso got outqualified by Massa.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5723 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
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Interesting to see the Verizon signage on the McLarens!
Not sure of the Financial, political reasons for this but even more interesting to see the branding disconnect... all the team uniforms still displayed Vodafone!!


The body language between Webber and Vettel in the post quali driver area was pretty telling, as was his response to Hamilton's "you guys are so quick" ... nodding towards SV, MW said (IMO) curtly, "he is the quick one"



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2671 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
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Quoting na (Reply 6):
That is especially the case, if the reason for it is not that he is the most talented guy, but because he´s got the best technics to help him.

Vettel is every bit as talented as anyone you'd care to name on the F1 grid. He may have the best car, but the best car doesn't guarantee championship success. Just ask Webber.

Vettel is on the verge of being F1's youngest triple world champion, and only the third driver in the entire history of the sport to win three titles in succession. He will go into the record books as one of F1's best.

Quoting na (Reply 6):
This season was was one of the most interesting in the last decade until the end of summer, but now I dont even care to watch a GP anymore.

Fine, don't. There's still only 10 points separating Vettel and Alonso for the title, and as much as I want Vettel to win it this weekend, the reality is that it's likely to go down to the last race of the season. It is Red Bull's resurgence towards the latter part of this season that has made the championship more interesting. Without that, Alonso would've waltzed through to take the title. But I guess Alonso winning isn't "boring", huh?  

I can't wait for the final two races of the season. I'll be cheering for Vettel all the way.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2448 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 7):
0.6 seconds faster than his team mate. Meanwhile GREATEST DRIVER EVER Alonso got outqualified by Massa.

So what? For once that happened. The same happened to Vettel also before. Doesnt mean anything at all but that Vettel is now 90% safe to become Champion again.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 9):
But I guess Alonso winning isn't "boring", huh?

In the way Vettel does now since twoandahalf years, well, it would be boring too. That said, I´m a Ferrari fan since the times of Niki Lauda, not so much of any driver. Drivers come and go, Ferrari remains the greatest name of all time in F1.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 9):
I can't wait for the final two races of the season. I'll be cheering for Vettel all the way.

An Aussi cheering for a German, a German cheering for a Spaniard. Good to see the blind nationalistic eye is out of fashion !

Dont get me wrong, I´m not really against Vettel, even if his adolescent whining each time his team isnt able to give him the best car this season disappointed me. Plus two titles in a row are really enough for anybody. I dislike any monotony, monopoly, any longtime domination of any person, or product.


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2671 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
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Quoting na (Reply 10):
In the way Vettel does now since twoandahalf years, well, it would be boring too. That said, I´m a Ferrari fan since the times of Niki Lauda, not so much of any driver. Drivers come and go, Ferrari remains the greatest name of all time in F1.

I'm a Williams fan first. I'll support the team through thick and thin, because drivers do come and go, but the team remains. That said, there have been certain drivers along the way that I've taken a liking to whose careers I have followed with interest. Vettel is one of them.

Quoting na (Reply 10):
An Aussi cheering for a German, a German cheering for a Spaniard. Good to see the blind nationalistic eye is out of fashion

And so it should be. There's no place for patriotism in an international sport, in my view.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1595 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 8):
Interesting to see the Verizon signage on the McLarens!
Not sure of the Financial, political reasons for this but even more interesting to see the branding disconnect... all the team uniforms still displayed Vodafone!!

There is no Vodafone in the US. However, they own a portion of Verizon Wireless, which is my bet as to why they went with that branding, to give the local crowd more of a connection with the brand they are used to seeing.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15809 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2448 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 12):
There is no Vodafone in the US. However, they own a portion of Verizon Wireless, which is my bet as to why they went with that branding, to give the local crowd more of a connection with the brand they are used to seeing.

   I think Verizon was doing some events with the team too.

As far as the race goes, I think in future years they need to change the date. Do it during the summer (could be awfully hot) or spring so it doesn't get buried under football. NASCAR's struggles in the late season are pretty well documented, which led to their introduction of "The Chase." Move the USGP outside of football season and I think they'll get a lot more American eyeballs.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12783 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2448 times:
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So, Ferrari self-destruct Massa's drive to move Alonso to the clean side of the grid. While it might not be against any rules, it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.  
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20386671

Regardless, a great drive by Hamilton and what is it about Vettel? Whining on the radio as soon as he's overtaken.   

So we go to the last race with a good chance of a rain-affected race. Vettel still has the upper hand, but anything can happen as we've seen at Brazil a number of times in the past.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8913 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 8):

Interesting to see the Verizon signage on the McLarens!
Not sure of the Financial, political reasons for this but even more interesting to see the branding disconnect... all the team uniforms still displayed Vodafone!!

Vodaphone owns 45% of Verizon.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2671 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
Whining on the radio as soon as he's overtaken.

He wasn't whining about being overtaken, he was angry about Karthikeyan holding him up, which allowed Hamilton to get close enough to attack. Who knows when that transmission was made? Radio transmissions are broadcast on a time delay basis. For all we know it could've been made well before Hamilton made his move.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

I saw most of the race on TV live (with glimpses of the Jets NFL game) and to me, it was a good, entertaining race and successful by any standard. You had a battle among the top 10 positions, Lewis Hamilton won the first race at Austin (he also won the last USGP race held, at Indy). The track seemed to be well designed, challanging with it's own quirks, it allowed some passing, plenty of run-off areas for safety and a good view for the fans there and on TV. A lot better than the places in the sandboxes in a few place, much better than the makeshift and too big Indy raceway.

From what I heard on a TV report, it attracted ticket buyers from all over the USA and world. The stands were full and the spectators seemed happy to be there. Austin, TX is the capital of the State of Texas, home of the huge University of Texas, a major music entertainment center (the SXSW Festivel is based there) so a interesting mix of cowboy to sophicated, cowboy boots with business suits, history and big oil and a pretty nice city to hold a world class car race.


Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
As far as the race goes, I think in future years they need to change the date. Do it during the summer (could be awfully hot) or spring so it doesn't get buried under football. NASCAR's struggles in the late season are pretty well documented, which led to their introduction of "The Chase." Move the USGP outside of football season and I think they'll get a lot more American eyeballs.

The weather was pretty nice, it is a time with low risk of rain, and really the NASCAR fan is often not an F1 fan (with some exceptions like me). This was held on the same day, but a little earlier, as the final race of the the top tier NASCAR race where Brad Keslowski won his first Sprint Cup title so little conflict with each other. I wouldn't do this race in Austin in the Summer, maybe in the Spring if it ties in another race in the Americas the weeks before or after.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15809 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 17):
The weather was pretty nice, it is a time with low risk of rain, and really the NASCAR fan is often not an F1 fan (with some exceptions like me).

It's not a matter of competition between F1 and NASCAR. It's the issue that during the fall, pretty much everything gets squashed by the football juggernaut.

NASCAR switched to the Chase For The Cup format several years ago to try and generate more interest in the late season races that go up against football games.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2448 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 7):
GREATEST DRIVER EVER Alonso

Mate, sorry but that tittle has long been taken. It still belongs to Ayrton Senna. The man who could smell where the best grip was and who carried the style, grace, and fearlessness of an F1 driver in full. Reviewing the clips of his races, it's hard to pick a moment that was not laden with emotion and thrill. He really was absolutely fantastic and in these days we should all remember him. It was a great race today and, although I am a massive Räikkönen fan, I am happy for Hamilton and especially for my beloved McLaren-Mercedes team. Congrats!

Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12783 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 16):
He wasn't whining about being overtaken, he was angry about Karthikeyan holding him up, which allowed Hamilton to get close enough to attack.

I see. Must have been the reference to "crazy overtake" that confused me. Same difference, he was whining about losing a place - where, exacty, was Karthikeyan supposed to disappear to in that section of the track? I'm afraid the reaction is the same whenever things don't go 100% Vettel's way.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8464 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
So, Ferrari self-destruct Massa's drive to move Alonso to the clean side of the grid. While it might not be against any rules, it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

But a move thats really surprising from Ferrari or would shock anyone (except Massa fans maybe)

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 13):
As far as the race goes, I think in future years they need to change the date. Do it during the summer (could be awfully hot) or spring so it doesn't get buried under football. NASCAR's struggles in the late season are pretty well documented, which led to their introduction of "The Chase." Move the USGP outside of football season and I think they'll get a lot more American eyeballs.

It was originally scheduled to be straight after the Canadian GP but the heat was why they moved it.


User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2671 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2447 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 20):
where, exacty, was Karthikeyan supposed to disappear to in that section of the track?

He could park his car off the track for all I care. It is the responsibility of backmarkers to get out of the race leader's way. Karthikeyan failed in that responsibility and it's not the first time he has done so. It makes me question whether he even belongs in Formula 1. Hamilton's pass on Vettel - legitimate though it is - was the direct result of Karthikeyan holding up Vettel. Vettel had every right to be furious.

I hear HRT F1 is being put up for sale. Whatever happens with the sale, I hope Karthikeyan doesn't get a drive next year.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15809 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 21):
It was originally scheduled to be straight after the Canadian GP but the heat was why they moved it.

Yeah, and in future seasons the construction of the track would no longer be a constraint. 2014 should see the race in New Jersey run in the week adjacent to the Canadian GP.

I'd try and move the Austin race to the spring, maybe swapping places with Bahrain, although I could see them not wanting to be a week away from Abu Dhabi. Maybe stick India in the middle or something. Also, is there any particular reason why the summer races in Europe need to be so spread out? A week off after both the British GP and the race in Germany, followed by nearly a month off after Hungary and another bye week between Spa and Monza. If they could tighten that up a bit, they could probably slip the USGP in during the spring when it should get more coverage and viewership.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

What an amazing circuit, maybe the FIA should ask Kevin Schwantz to help out Tilke when he trys to design another bland and boring new circuit, rathewr like having an ex pro golferdesigning a championship course the FIAS should get ex champion drivers/riders to design new circuits.Tilke is basically responsible for almost all new tracks which are generally bland boring snooze fests.

User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5723 posts, RR: 44
Reply 25, posted (2 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2507 times:
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Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
maybe swapping places with Bahrain, although I could see them not wanting to be a week away from Abu Dhabi.

Just drop the sand pit races all together, they add nothing to the sport(Accepted they do line the pockets of those merely in it for the money) Apart from COTA being a nice track, it is great to see masses of enthusiastic fans, the sand pit races not only lack crowds there is little sign of enthusiasm in the few that are there!

Ferrari and their cynical manipulation of the rules, what a disgrace.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5723 posts, RR: 44
Reply 26, posted (2 years 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2515 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 22):
He could park his car off the track for all I care. It is the responsibility of backmarkers to get out of the race leader's way. Karthikeyan failed in that responsibility

What race were you watching?

In the race I was watching as SV & LH came up behind Karthikeyan he almost immediately pulled to the outside of the turn and gave them room.

And yes, Vettel's almost predictable whining as soon as things don't go his way is getting tired!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (2 years 3 days ago) and read 2535 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 26):
In the race I was watching as SV & LH came up behind Karthikeyan he almost immediately pulled to the outside of the turn and gave them room.

Hamilton's on-board video tells a different story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlvueVJBcgM

Quoting stealthz (Reply 26):
And yes, Vettel's almost predictable whining as soon as things don't go his way is getting tired!

Hamilton and Alonso would have complained just the same, and rightfully so. But seeing as how we're talking about Vettel, we'll just call it "whining" again  


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5723 posts, RR: 44
Reply 28, posted (2 years 3 days ago) and read 2534 times:
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Quoting flood (Reply 27):
Hamilton's on-board video tells a different story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlvue...JBcgM

I guess some will disagree, seems to me Karthekeyan moved to the outside as Vettel came up behind him

Quoting flood (Reply 27):
Hamilton and Alonso would have complained just the same, and rightfully so.

Sounded to me that SV was bitching about Hamilton's overtake, one that he came perilously close to breaking rules to prevent

[Edited 2012-11-19 02:36:56]


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3807 posts, RR: 11
Reply 29, posted (2 years 3 days ago) and read 2536 times:

That was a great race, and another season to be decided on the last event!

F1 is definitely back...

Quoting flood (Reply 27):
Hamilton and Alonso would have complained just the same, and rightfully so. But seeing as how we're talking about Vettel, we'll just call it "whining" again

Pretty much. All these drivers have ultra ambitious and competitive mentalities. It comes with the job. They have egos so bloated I wonder how they even fit a helmet.
They'll all whine and they'll all make a fit when they don't have it their way (except Kimi..., Kimi's an alien), it's what makes it an interesting competition.

I remember Alonso to behave very much like Vettel today when he was younger and in the seat of a championship winning car. He has acquired a certain maturity which Vettel will get too, in time.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2671 posts, RR: 5
Reply 30, posted (2 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2536 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 26):
What race were you watching?

I could ask you the same question.

Quoting flood (Reply 27):
Hamilton and Alonso would have complained just the same, and rightfully so. But seeing as how we're talking about Vettel, we'll just call it "whining" again

  

Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
Sounded to me that SV was bitching about Hamilton's overtake, one that he came peri;ously close to breaking rules to prevent

I didn't hear clearly what was actually said, and I haven't been able to find a transcript of that specific call, but at least two F1 websites - autosport.com and f1fanatic.co.uk report the call as Vettel being furious about being held up by Karthikeyan, which he undoubtedly was, and which undoubtedly directly led to his being overtaken by Hamilton.

Karthikeyan is nothing more than a mobile chicane and does not deserve a spot in Formula 1.



Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8464 posts, RR: 8
Reply 31, posted (2 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2539 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 27):
Hamilton's on-board video tells a different story:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlvue...JBcgM

No it doesn't.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 30):
I didn't hear clearly what was actually said, and I haven't been able to find a transcript of that specific call, but at least two F1 websites - autosport.com and f1fanatic.co.uk report the call as Vettel being furious about being held up by Karthikeyan, which he undoubtedly was, and which undoubtedly directly led to his being overtaken by Hamilton.

Furious he was out done by a superior driver on the day. Blaming someone else is what all racing drivers do when they can't admit defeat. Even the tone of his engineer suggested they didn't agree and wanted him to focus on brining the car home.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5723 posts, RR: 44
Reply 32, posted (2 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2537 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 30):
but at least two F1 websites - autosport.com and f1fanatic.co.uk report the call as Vettel being furious about being held up by Karthikeyan, which he undoubtedly was,

Well Autosport didn't say that but if you want to quote reports perhaps this one might mean something... http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104391

From what I saw, Karthikeyan moved over fairly smartly as the cars came up behind him at turn 8, IMO opinion(based on many years of making blue flag calls trackside) SV was hampered no more than can be expected any time in traffic, just he doesn't react to it well!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (2 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
Sounded to me that SV was bitching about Hamilton's overtake

That was my initial impression as well, although the transmission was hard to understand. Unfortunate timing of the transmission, to say the least. Problem too, was that the main TV feed had cut away to the Red Bull pits and only returned to the action at the very moment Karthikeyan was disposed of. So when Vettel came on the radio, everyone assumed it was related to Hamilton. It left the commentators here scratching their heads as well.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):
one that he came peri;ously close to breaking rules to prevent

We'll have to disagree there too  
Quoting francoflier (Reply 29):
They have egos so bloated I wonder how they even fit a helmet.

It'll be interesting to see how Hamilton copes with Mercedes next year if they don't manage to seriously up their game.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 29):
(except Kimi..., Kimi's an alien)

  


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (2 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2539 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 31):
No it doesn't.

I have a hunch you'd be of a different opinion had it involved anyone other than Vettel.


User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8464 posts, RR: 8
Reply 35, posted (2 years 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 34):

Bzzzzzzt..... wrong.....


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 36, posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2540 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 19):
Mate, sorry but that tittle has long been taken. It still belongs to Ayrton Senna.

Based on what? I have followed his career, and, yes, he was one of the greatest. But THE greatest, I fail to see that. Imho there is no singular driver who was the greatest. For example parallel to Senna there was Alain Prost, who won more often than the Brazilian. So why Senna? Because he had a character that suited the media better than others? On results the greatest driver ever is clearly Michael Schumacher, far ahead of anyone else.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
So, Ferrari self-destruct Massa's drive to move Alonso to the clean side of the grid. While it might not be against any rules, it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

It surely does. Not something I like as a Ferrari fan. But RB is a trickster team too. The lemonade employees just are more talented in hiding.


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (2 years 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 31):
Even the tone of his engineer suggested they didn't agree

  

It suggested nothing of the like. But your comment again suggests, or shows, rather, your heavy bias and dislike for Vettel. Nothing more, nothing less.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12783 posts, RR: 46
Reply 38, posted (2 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2535 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 22):
It is the responsibility of backmarkers to get out of the race leader's way

In a safe location, yes. In the middle of a series of high speed bends isn't it and he did exactly what Charlie Whiting told them to do!

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 22):
Vettel had every right to be furious.

All the drivers knew they could be stuck behind slower cars in that series of turns. Was he equally furious when Hamilton lost a couple of seconds in the same place a few laps earlier? I doubt it.

Quoting flood (Reply 27):
Hamilton and Alonso would have complained just the same

Maybe, but not in Vettel's high-pitched teenage girl screech.   

Quoting francoflier (Reply 29):
That was a great race

It was, and those really wide corners with space to take different lines really added something. However, I'm concerned it would have been much more of a procession after the first couple of laps if Pirelli had brought the correct tyres.

Quoting na (Reply 36):
It surely does. Not something I like as a Ferrari fan.

It's a loophole that needs to be closed. Three other drivers were badly impacted - those that moved from the clean side to the dirty side as a result of Ferrari's stunt. Maybe the promoted drivers should be given the option of deciding which side of the track they want to start from or even declining the promotion if they feel it's to their disadvantage.

Quoting flood (Reply 37):
It suggested nothing of the like.

IMHO, it sounded pretty much like "Yeah, whatever. Just concentrate on staying in second place."



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineCXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2671 posts, RR: 5
Reply 39, posted (2 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2532 times:
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CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 31):
Furious he was out done by a superior driver on the day.

Wrong.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104390

Quote:
It was a very good race and we did everything we could, but unfortunately we ran into traffic at the wrong time and lost the gap to Lewis. He used his chance well, I tried to cover the inside but he had more speed down the straight. I respect the positions; Lewis beat us fair and square. We showed we had the pace today and now it's full steam ahead to the next race."
Quoting stealthz (Reply 32):
Well Autosport didn't say that

Yeah, it did.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104366

Quote:
Finally on lap 42 out of 57 Hamilton managed to pull the move off after Vettel lost time in traffic before the DRS area. Vettel moved to the inside, but the McLaren's straightline pace advantage was so great that McLaren was comfortably ahead before the next corner - prompting angry radio messages from Vettel about backmarker Narain Karthikeyan's HRT.

Christian Horner says:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104394

Quote:
"I am quite convinced that without the backmarker he could have hung on, but that is motor racing."

... and based on the fact that Hamilton never got away from Vettel after the pass, I tend to agree.

Quoting stealthz (Reply 32):
if you want to quote reports perhaps this one might mean something... http://www.autosport.com/news/report...04391

While it has been a noted concern that overtaking, or moving out of the way through that section of the track would be difficult, I do not believe that the solution is to not move out of the way until they reach turn 8. It was quite clear during the weekend that it could have an implication not just on the race winner but on the championship. Like I said, Karthikeyan could've driven his car off the track to leave the racing line completely clear for both Vettel and Hamilton to pass before rejoining the track. If I was in his shoes that's precisely what I'd do. It's not as if he was racing anyone at that time.

Quoting flood (Reply 33):
Unfortunate timing of the transmission, to say the least.

  

As far as I'm aware, the radio transmissions are not broadcast live, but delayed. I have no idea when Vettel actually made that transmission. It could well have been made just after he finally managed to get past Karthikeyan. The timing of its broadcast was unfortunate.

Quoting flood (Reply 37):
It suggested nothing of the like. But your comment again suggests, or shows, rather, your heavy bias and dislike for Vettel. Nothing more, nothing less.

  

[Edited 2012-11-19 05:06:42]


Boeing 777 fanboy
User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2535 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 38):
It was, and those really wide corners with space to take different lines really added something. However, I'm concerned it would have been much more of a procession after the first couple of laps if Pirelli had brought the correct tyres.

It was an excelent choice of tyres, pyrelli should simply promote exciting racing and if thet means people going all sideways trying to get the temps in their tyres or supersofts wearing in 10 laps then so be it. A great race I thought, even my wife stayed up till after midnight to watch.

Fred


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (2 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 31):
Furious he was out done by a superior driver on the day.
Quoting CXB77L (Reply 39):
Wrong.

Indeed. So furious, he applauded Hamilton as he overtook him on their way back to the pits.


User currently offlinencfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (2 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2525 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 33):
Quoting stealthz (Reply 28):one that he came peri;ously close to breaking rules to preventWe'll have to disagree there too

I agree with stealthz, Vettel moved across the track to block, then started to come back at Hamilton as he went to make the pass, only one move is permitted, Vettel made two. IMHO, if contact had have been made as a result of Vettels second move, the stewards would have been involved and it could have got very messy.

Quoting flood (Reply 37):
Quoting Bill142 (Reply 31):Even the tone of his engineer suggested they didn't agree It suggested nothing of the like. But your comment again suggests, or shows, rather, your heavy bias and dislike for Vettel. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think it was somewhere in the middle. The timing of the broadcast made it seem Vettel was complaining about Hamiltons move and the reply seemed to imply he needed to just get on with the job and stop the whinging. However, as the broadcast was delayed, the comment from Vettel and the engineers reply take on a whole new meaning, for me anyway.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 14):
So, Ferrari self-destruct Massa's drive to move Alonso to the clean side of the grid. While it might not be against any rules, it leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

After the last GP, lots of flack directed at RBR for thier 'stunt' to start Vettel from the pits intead of the last row of the grid, funny how there isn't much flack being directed at Ferrari for their 'stunt' which directly affected other drivers by putting them on the unfavourable side of the grid. Whist neither can be claimed to be in the spirit of the rules, neither broke the rules and in F1, spirit counts for very little. That nasty taste was just that little bit stronger in America than it was in Abu Dhabi, all IMHO of course.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12783 posts, RR: 46
Reply 43, posted (2 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2515 times:
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Quoting ncfc99 (Reply 42):
That nasty taste was just that little bit stronger in America than it was in Abu Dhabi, all IMHO of course.

In my book Ferrari's was the worse of the two because it detrimentally affected three other drivers.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8464 posts, RR: 8
Reply 44, posted (2 years 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2519 times:

Quoting flood (Reply 41):
Indeed. So furious, he applauded Hamilton as he overtook him on their way back to the pits.

Well he got told off for swearing so I guess calling him a **** was off limits. Left him with little option but to shower him with praise.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5723 posts, RR: 44
Reply 45, posted (2 years 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2506 times:
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Quoting CXB77L (Reply 39):
Yeah, it did.

It didn't really, angry radio messages in the heat of the moment rarely count as "furious"

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 31):
Even the tone of his engineer suggested they didn't agree .....

Not sure I agree with that, more likely --

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 31):
.....wanted him to focus on brining the car home.

Have heard several SV-Rocky interchanges over the years and one would assume that Rocky is the older and more mature member of what is a pretty effective team in any case the one calmly sitting at the pitwall with time to think about things, I think Rocky's "whatever!!" attitude to Seb's outbursts are his way of shutting down the situation and getting Seb to refocus, regardless of what he might personally feel about any given event.

Back to the scarlet woman of F1, it really surprises me there is not more widespread indignation and condemnation of the Scuderia's cynical "gearbox" issue, if I was one of the teams disadvantaged by that ludicrous stunt I would be screaming blue murder!

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 39):
Like I said, Karthikeyan could've driven his car off the track to leave the racing line completely clear for both Vettel and Hamilton to pass before rejoining the track. If I was in his shoes that's precisely what I'd do. It's not as if he was racing anyone at that time.

Are you serious??
At no time is a driver expected to drive off the track to allow someone past, not ever, in fact driving off the track at any time should be much more rigourously sanctioned than it is now.
Whilst it is now the rule that drivers being lapped should not impede, in fact lose time and sometimes position in "their race" it is ultimately the responsibility of the passing driver to overtake safely.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12783 posts, RR: 46
Reply 46, posted (2 years 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2505 times:
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Quoting stealthz (Reply 45):
Back to the scarlet woman of F1, it really surprises me there is not more widespread indignation and condemnation of the Scuderia's cynical "gearbox" issue, if I was one of the teams disadvantaged by that ludicrous stunt I would be screaming blue murder!

I certainly don't disagree, but the other top teams (i.e. McLaren and Red Bull) accepted it for what it was - Ferrari trying to maximise Alonso's position within the rules (however much we may dislike it). However, I am surprised we didn't hear more from the teams of those drivers that were disadvantaged.

Devil's advocate - Red Bull could have pulled the same stunt with Webber just before the start of the race, then both Ferrari drivers would have been back on the dirty side of the track.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15809 posts, RR: 27
Reply 47, posted (2 years 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

Here's one for the odd juxtaposition file next to Lewis Hamilton's cowboy hat: the first Ferrari F12 on the continent being auctioned off for charity during the Grand Prix like it's cattle.

http://jalopnik.com/5961831/watch-am...-f12-get-auctioned-for-125-million



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5723 posts, RR: 44
Reply 48, posted (2 years 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2449 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 46):
but the other top teams (i.e. McLaren and Red Bull) accepted it for what it was

I don't think they really did, considering how they have literally whored themselves to the FOM and Concorde agreement they are not in any real position to say much.
Closest to speaking their mind was Martin Whitmarsh who said -

Quote:
"But I think if I had qualified on the fast side of the grid and then been moved to the slow side I would have been very p----- off.

He also made the point that McLaren's reluctance to do things like that was one of the reasons Alonso left McLaren and even more pointedly , their driver DID start on the dirty side of the grid and finished...???
Christian Horner of RBR was asked if they considered countering this by doing something similar with MW, he replied then someone else would have countered... and that would just be silly!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10804 posts, RR: 9
Reply 49, posted (2 years 23 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 43):
In my book Ferrari's was the worse of the two because it detrimentally affected three other drivers.

Drivers without anything left to win this season. Certainly not Gentleman style what Ferrari did though every team plays tricks from time to time,. Guess why there were no protests...
Anyway, at least positive they did it in the open (hello FIA, close this door please!) and not in the backyard as RB would have done.

RB has rightfully won the Constructor´s cup, as they have the best car again this season. But the driver´s championship should go to the best driver, and not only I think thats the one who still got chances in the last race despite his inferior car.
In Germany there is a saying "its easy to stink if you have your pants full" - in this sense Vettel stinks.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10917 posts, RR: 37
Reply 50, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2356 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 47):
Here's one for the odd juxtaposition file next to Lewis Hamilton's cowboy hat: the first Ferrari F12

This is Austin TX GP winner Hammy as we don't often see him

Guitar Man: Lewis Hamilton Plays the Guitar in New Vodafone Ad
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zH-llH97obI#!


     



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4043 posts, RR: 4
Reply 51, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

Quoting na (Reply 49):
Drivers without anything left to win this season.

I beg to differ - constructors championship positions still matter to these teams, regardless of whether they win or not. Go see how Sauber, Williams, , Mercedes etc all talk about taking the 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th positions from each other. Its still a matter of pride, even if it doesn't gain them the prestige that number 1 comes.

Also, both drivers and teams have different monetary payments based on their results - many of the drivers are on "pay per point", so even if they can't win they still fight for every point they can get, and the teams all get a cut of the WDC prize pot based on their position, so theres definitely something in it even tho the WCC and WDC are both basically over for 99% of the grid.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12783 posts, RR: 46
Reply 52, posted (1 year 12 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2310 times:
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Quoting na (Reply 49):
Drivers without anything left to win this season.

Right. Ask those drivers and teams if they considered they were "driving for nothing" and their only job was to get out of Alonso's way.   

Quoting moo (Reply 51):

  



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10917 posts, RR: 37
Reply 53, posted (1 year 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2233 times:

Kamui is out. Guiterrez is in with Mexican money. Wrong choice if you ask me. Not a good idea to change both drivers again.

No more Kamui with Sauber in 2013. At least he had a good 3 years.and a podium at Suzuka. The problem is money. He did not come with sponsorshipsso it's bye bye. I am hopeful that another team will hire him.

He may be inconsistent but even Sergio was inconsistent the last few races with bad results. He will be under a lot of pressure with McLaren for sure - much more so than during his time at Sauber.

Let's see how it all turns up in Brazil. Should be an exciting race. I hope Fernando will win the WDC title. Seb still has lots of time ahead of him.

Sadly this will be Schumi's last race - but he will take his car home with him. What a wonderful end of career gift!!!!

Go Kamui!!!! Go Schumi!!!! Go Fernando!!!!

        



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 54, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 53):

I recall you saying Kamui belongs in a top team, and will be in one some day. How wrong you were, again!
If sauber is able to see how inconsistent he is, you can bet that no top team will ever hire him. He had his chance and he blew it. Be gone!



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10917 posts, RR: 37
Reply 55, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2024 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 54):
you can bet that no top team will ever hire him. He had his chance and he blew it. Be gone!

The future of F1 does not hold in your hands not in 2013 or after.

Leaving Schumi aside as he will always be a 7 WDC title holder that no one will ever be able to take away from him, see how many more blew it who have ended after Kamui in the 2012 WDC


1.
Sebastian Vettel
GER
18 -- 10 25 8 12 12 -- 15 10 12 18 -- 25 25 25 25 15 18 8 281
2.
Fernando Alonso
ESP
10 25 2 6 18 15 10 25 18 25 10 -- 15 15 -- 15 18 18 15 18 278
3.
Kimi Räikkönen
FIN
6 10 -- 18 15 2 4 18 10 15 18 15 10 8 8 10 6 25 8 1 207
4.
Lewis Hamilton
GBR
15 15 15 4 4 10 25 -- 4 -- 25 -- 25 -- 10 1 12 -- 25 -- 190
5.
Jenson Button
GBR
25 -- 18 -- 2 -- -- 4 1 18 8 25 -- 18 12 -- 10 12 10 25 188
6.
Mark Webber
AUS
12 12 12 12 -- 25 6 12 25 4 4 8 -- -- 2 18 15 -- -- 12 179
7.
Felipe Massa
BRA
-- -- -- 2 -- 8 1 -- 12 -- 2 10 12 4 18 12 8 6 12 15 122
8.
Romain Grosjean
FRA
-- -- 8 15 12 -- 18 -- 8 -- 15 -- 6 -- 6 2 -- 6 -- 96
9.
Nico Rosberg
GER
-- -- 25 10 6 18 8 8 -- 1 1 -- 6 10 -- -- -- -- -- -- 93
10.
Sergio Perez
MEX
4 18 -- -- -- -- 15 2 -- 8 -- -- 18 1 -- -- -- -- -- -- 66
11.
Nico Hülkenberg
GER
-- 2 -- -- 1 4 -- 10 -- 2 -- 12 -- -- 6 8 4 -- 4 10 63
12.
Kamui Kobayashi
JPN
8 -- 1 -- 10 -- 2 -- -- 12 -- -- 2 -- 15 -- -- 8 -- 2 60

*****************************************************************************

13.
Michael Schumacher
GER
-- 1 -- 1 -- -- -- 15 6 6 -- 6 8 -- -- -- -- -- -- 6 49
14.
Paul di Resta
GBR
1 6 -- 8 -- 6 -- 6 -- -- -- 1 4 12 -- -- -- 2 -- -- 46
15.
Pastor Maldonado
VEN
-- -- 4 -- 25 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 4 -- -- 10 2 -- 45
16.
Bruno Senna
BRA
-- 8 6 -- -- 1 -- 1 2 -- 6 -- 1 -- -- -- 1 4 1 -- 31
17.
Jean-Éric Vergne
FRA
-- 4 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 4 -- -- -- 4 -- -- -- 4 16
18.
Daniel Ricciardo
AUS
2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 -- 2 1 2 -- 1 -- -- 10

Vitaly Petrov
RUS
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- [11]

Timo Glock
GER
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- [12]

Charles Pic
FRA
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- [12]

Heikki Kovalainen
FIN
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- [13]

Jérôme d'Ambrosio
BEL
-- [13]

Narain Karthikeyan
IND
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- [15]

Pedro de la Rosa
ESP
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- [17]



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5723 posts, RR: 44
Reply 56, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2020 times:
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Quoting sudden (Reply 54):
If sauber is able to see how inconsistent he is

Do you really believe that was the reason?
If driving ability was the decider I think Kamui would still have a drive but the ability to match the bottomless pit of Mexican Telco Pesos was beyond him!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 57, posted (1 year 12 months 1 day ago) and read 2015 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 56):
Do you really believe that was the reason?

Actually I do.
Call it naive, but he did not deliver. As far as I know Hulkenberg did not buy his seat. Correct me if I'm wrong.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5723 posts, RR: 44
Reply 58, posted (1 year 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 2007 times:
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Quoting sudden (Reply 57):
As far as I know Hulkenberg did not buy his seat

I would go along with that and might even concede that Nico has some potential... more than Kobayashi.. debatable
but I am pretty certain Esteban Gutiérrez did buy the seat.. Slim chance he got the drive on talent!!

Cheers



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10917 posts, RR: 37
Reply 59, posted (1 year 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 58):
I am pretty certain Esteban Gutiérrez did buy the seat.. Slim chance he got the drive on talent!!

Telmex got Guitierrez the seat. He would not have had it otherwise. If he fails the next season it will all be on Sauber.

Also there is not much difference in WDC standings for the 3 drivers.
10. Sergio Perez
11. Nico Hülkenberg
12. Kamui Kobayashi

Also Kamui finished 9th in Brasil which isn't a bad result leaving names such as Raikkonen, Rosberg and di Resta behind him.
9 2 14 Kamui Kobayashi (JPN) Sauber C31 Ferrari 056 Pirelli 71 1:45'53.906

Had he find the needed money he would have kept his seat no doubt.

That's how the F1 world goes. It's a top-end $$$$££££ business more even than it is a competition.

 dollarsign   dollarsign   dollarsign   yes   dollarsign   dollarsign   dollarsign 

[Edited 2012-11-26 03:23:06]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 60, posted (1 year 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 1999 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 58):
I would go along with that and might even concede that Nico has some potential... more than Kobayashi

Nico is far more consistent that Kamui. Although I don't see his move to Sauber justified. Especially now when FI will have additional 50 million for next year to invest in new gears.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8464 posts, RR: 8
Reply 61, posted (1 year 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 1997 times:

Quoting sudden (Reply 60):
Nico is far more consistent that Kamui. Although I don't see his move to Sauber justified. Especially now when FI will have additional 50 million for next year to invest in new gears.

And how many podiums did Force India score this year? Oh..


User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 62, posted (1 year 12 months 23 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 61):
And how many podiums did Force India score this year? Oh..

details, minor details. Still think he should have gone to Marussia, or HRT even as that's where the future in F1 is.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5723 posts, RR: 44
Reply 63, posted (1 year 12 months 22 hours ago) and read 1986 times:
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Nico is far more consistent that Kamui.

Quoting sudden (Reply 60):
Nico is far more consistent that Kamui.

20 races, one Fast lap each, one podium(KK) 63 points to 60(advantage Hulkenberg)... pretty big call claiming consistency as a big selling point!

Accept that the "Hulk" is somewhat more consistent but points are the real measure and he is not that far ahead!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlinesudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 64, posted (1 year 12 months 22 hours ago) and read 1985 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 63):
Accept that the "Hulk" is somewhat more consistent but points are the real measure and he is not that far ahead!

I base it also on the bright future the wonder kid Kamui were to have in the sport. Simply overrated!



When in doubt, flat out!
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