Sponsor Message:
Non Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
NHL Lockout Update PT 2: Talks To Resume Monday  
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6950 posts, RR: 18
Posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 5830 times:

Old thread was archived.

Looks like according to ESPN, the talks are going to resume monday....

But that's just it. So far, it's all just talking and talking, with very little ACTUALLY getting done.

An analyst I saw on ESPN a few days back suggested that the entire 2012/2013 season is going to be scrapped, because there's no way that the Bettman leadership and the NHLPA higher-ups are ever going to agree on anything.

Let's look at some history here- the 04/05 lockout ended in July 05 with a hastily drawn up contract in order to avoid another lockout for 05/06. If that contract wasn't drawn up and if the pressure from the stadium owners, cities, and fans didn't mount as much as it did then, we can probably say that the NHL would still be in the same lockout it was in 2004, and that we would probably have a completely new hockey league.

Seriously, there has got to be changes, but what can happen, and what can we, the fans, do?

In my opinions- one- Bettman has got to go. I know it's not 100% his fault but his leadership is trash.
two- the NHLPA needs a restructuring, and THEY need education on how to actually spend money, and mental training on the value of the dollar. These players are making millions and they're squabbling over percentages!

three- both the NHLPA and Bettman need to realize that fans are first. NOT them. FANS are the reason why they have money in the first place. I wish the two parties would have learned this back in 2004.

Rant over    Your thoughts?


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
157 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflykev From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 1376 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5832 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I think Bettman is just a figurehead to be honest and that even if he was to go, there is no reasoning as to why this same problem will not rear its ugly head in future years.
I am not saying I am on Bettmans side but I do feel he gets more negativity than he is due, especially when you take a look at how awkward the NHLPA has been so far. I dislike Fehr's attitude immensely and also Jeremy Jacobs I feel is not helping things progress.

As I was saying to one of my mates earlier actually, I am surprised at how far into November we have gotten without the NHL cancelling Decembers games; and whilst I am sure they will be cancelled soon I find it interesting how the league has not done so yet - a small ray of hope perhaps?

I think everyone would have been better off if they had taken the pretty decent 50/50 offer set up a little while back however we are now well passed that. Quite frankly now I just want both sides to sign something and I don't care what so I can go back to watching NHL hockey.

Feels that the talent doesn't really care about the game or the fans else this whole mess would have been avoided.

Kev.



The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11951 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Looks like according to ESPN, the talks are going to resume monday....

Pretty sad to go to ESPN's NHL page and have the lead article be about a video game!

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
we would probably have a completely new hockey league

As long as you have the same owners making the same silly decisions time and again, the NHL will always be a weak league. The season's too long (they can't even keep the ice frozen in the Stanley Cup), there are too many teams, some of the markets they are in just make no sense at all (so why grant franchises you know are going to fail?) and on and on it goes.

I like hockey a lot, but face it, the current set of owners have pushed it past the breaking point. They just can't discipline themselves.

I read that one of the negotiating points is about who is going to pay for the lockout - what? If you lock someone out, it's all on you!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3829 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

This whole setup seems to be a terrible way to run a professional sport.

User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1798 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

My thoughts? I would tell you what my thoughts on Donald Fehr are, but when I was a child my mother always told me "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all".

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
In my opinions- one- Bettman has got to go. I know it's not 100% his fault but his leadership is trash.

If I had to get rid of anyone in the NHL leadership, it would be Bill Daly. He's as much as fault as Bettman is, yet he seems to bring little value to the league, Bettman at least makes people money.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
two- the NHLPA needs a restructuring, and THEY need education on how to actually spend money, and mental training on the value of the dollar. These players are making millions and they're squabbling over percentages!

         But as I've said in every other thread: This union shouldn't even exist.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 2):
I like hockey a lot, but face it, the current set of owners have pushed it past the breaking point. They just can't discipline themselves.

I generally agree with that statement, although we can't paint all the owners with the same brush. Some owners are worse than others unfortunately, which I think goes for every sport.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

Quoting flykev (Reply 1):
I am not saying I am on Bettmans side but I do feel he gets more negativity than he is due, especially when you take a look at how awkward the NHLPA has been so far.

He is doing the bidding of the owners and that is his job.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Seriously, there has got to be changes, but what can happen, and what can we, the fans, do?

Nothing while the season is going on but when it comes back we don't go.

The biggest change is that both sides should be locked in a room until a deal is reached, they can be fed allowed to use the bathroom etc. but they stay in the NHL offices until this deal is reached.

Also if you are really against the union then get the NHL to bring in replacement players which is what the NFL would have done last year if their lockout lasted into the season and did it this year with the refs. Enough players will cross the picket line if that is done.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1798 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 5):
Also if you are really against the union then get the NHL to bring in replacement players which is what the NFL would have done last year if their lockout lasted into the season and did it this year with the refs. Enough players will cross the picket line if that is done.

I'm 100% for this. This million-dollar union nonsense is getting out of hand. Plus I'm sure we would see less players jumping ship to the KHL.

It would also be a great opportunity for some amateur players to get seen.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6950 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 2):
As long as you have the same owners making the same silly decisions time and again, the NHL will always be a weak league

Sadly the case  
Quoting moo (Reply 3):
This whole setup seems to be a terrible way to run a professional sport.

Well, sadly, it is the way all pro sports in the US are run, seems like.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
But as I've said in every other thread: This union shouldn't even exist.

Yeah I agree, as I said. I'm not sure how this is going to actually work. it's not about anti-union; the only thing I feasibly see the union being useful for is protecting the players from injury.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 6):
I'm 100% for this. This million-dollar union nonsense is getting out of hand. Plus I'm sure we would see less players jumping ship to the KHL.

It would also be a great opportunity for some amateur players to get seen.

I agree with that proposal, but will it actually happen? Who knows  



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinetxjim From United States of America, joined May 2008, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Let's look at some history here- the 04/05 lockout ended in July 05 with a hastily drawn up contract in order to avoid another lockout for 05/06.

Sad thing about that strike was that hockey was about to experience a breakthrough in popularity. They still had a television contract with a major network, major league basketball was experiencing labor issues and it seemed they were higher up on the casual fan's interest meter. The work stoppage killed any good buzz they had at the time. This time is different as the national interest level is down for the casual fan.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 5):
Also if you are really against the union then get the NHL to bring in replacement players which is what the NFL would have done last year if their lockout lasted into the season and did it this year with the refs. Enough players will cross the picket line if that is done.

Actually, over the years, I believe I've enjoyed attending minor league games more so that NHL events. Lower prices, easier to find good seats and decent level of play.


User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2654 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5831 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Hopefully they can get something together to salvage the season. Both sides are being incredibly childish and greedy. Somebody should have taught them to share when they were little. I wash hoping to go to a Rangers game in December. Even if they do fix it I'm not sure I want to give my money to a league that has no interests in keeping their fans happy.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6950 posts, RR: 18
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

Quoting txjim (Reply 8):
The work stoppage killed any good buzz they had at the time.

Yeah exactly. The buzz from last year's amazing season is again killed, and it's going to cause major financial and emotional strain on a number of small market teams.

Quoting txjim (Reply 8):
Actually, over the years, I believe I've enjoyed attending minor league games more so that NHL events. Lower prices, easier to find good seats and decent level of play.

In 08 or 09, i forget when, I went to the Kelly Cup Final game in Cincinnati, and watched the Cyclones win it....all for $20! Front row goal line seats, the action was right in front of me, and the post-game celebration happened right there in front of me. Best dang $20 I ever spent!

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 9):
Both sides are being incredibly childish and greedy.

Agreed, which makes me wonder what kinds of outside intervention could occur in this case, if any.

My idea would be representatives from the Original 6 cities, plus representatives from 6 small market teams' cities, plus one from a medium market or new market, like Winnipeg, for example, sit down with the NHL and the NHLPA and mediate this whole childish mess.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2751 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
but what can happen, and what can we, the fans, do?

Not much. That's the problem. We can always boycott the first matches of the season (in the arenas and on TV), to show that we were very unhappy with the lockout. It's not going to change their lives, but it will show them something at least.

Or, as I said previously, we should create the NHLFA in order to have an "official" channel of communication from the fans, be allowed to express our anger or, why not, participate to the negociations.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 2):
there are too many teams

   I'm sure the NHL would do just fine with 2 or 4 teams less. It would make also the league more competitive.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 9):
Both sides are being incredibly childish and greedy

True that. It's become even pathetic.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16980 posts, RR: 48
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Seriously, there has got to be changes, but what can happen, and what can we, the fans, do?

The fans will go right back like an abused housewife as if nothing ever happened, shelling out ever more money for the same overpaid players/owners in a monopoly industry, and the cycle will continue



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

As a Canadian, hockey is like religion to me. However, given the serial short-sightedness of both parties in the several labour disputes over the past twenty or so years, I'm near the point where I no longer care. I can watch junior or minor league hockey. I can do other things: symphony, theater, for example. There's always somewhere else to spend your $$$, and both the league and the PA should realise that, since the NHL is still largely gate-driven.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11951 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the above.

I presume there was a contract that both parties signed, no?

A lockout is by definition where management refuses to honor the contract, no?

So why is this the player's fault?

If management can't honor a contract they signed, shouldn't they reorganize under bankruptcy laws that exist in both the US and Canada?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1798 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5830 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
I presume there was a contract that both parties signed, no?

The only contract is the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), which has expired.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
A lockout is by definition where management refuses to honor the contract, no?

Not quite. A lockout is a form of job action (contract or not) whereby the management/firm refuse to admit employees. The idea being that causing this inconvenience will force the membership to accept certain terms in order to broker a favourable deal for management.

The NHLPA isn't going for anything the NHL puts on the table, so the NHL says "no games til you do".

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
So why is this the player's fault?

Because the fact that a union whose membership averages $2 million in pay per year actually exists is a gross injustice to the idea of a union in the first place. Further to that, this union whose membership commands an average wage 50 times that of the average Canadian, actually has the gall to demand more money for doing equal work to what they were doing under the previous contract.

I'm completely oversimplifying here, but that's my general gripe with the PA.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4266 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5827 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 5):
Also if you are really against the union then get the NHL to bring in replacement players which is what the NFL would have done last year if their lockout lasted into the season and did it this year with the refs. Enough players will cross the picket line if that is done.

I doubt it. Didn't happen in baseball in 1994, unlikely to happen in the NHL. And the players crossing the line would be blacklisted in the future.

Remember that the owners locked out the players here. The players offered to continue playing under the previous contract as they worked on a deal. The owners rejected that. So now we're in this mess. Players make way too much, sure. So do owners. But the biggest problem is the boneheaded deals owners give to players. So now they are looking to renege on or restructure multiple contracts that they handed out and now regret. Too bad. If you're an owner and you're in trouble you only have yourself to blame. NHL-quality players are a scarce commodity. But the market is pure capitalism in action: you get to pay a person solely for the quality of work you expect while in a competitive market (29 or so other NHL teams plus potentially KHL or other international leagues entering the bidding).

The way some of the owners and GMs spend their money does make me question their sanity and begs the question of whether they are qualified to run a McDonald's restaurant, much less a multi-million dollar sports franchise.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11951 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):
The only contract is the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA), which has expired.

Thanks for that explanation and all the others too.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 15):
Because the fact that a union whose membership averages $2 million in pay per year actually exists is a gross injustice to the idea of a union in the first place. Further to that, this union whose membership commands an average wage 50 times that of the average Canadian, actually has the gall to demand more money for doing equal work to what they were doing under the previous contract.

That's a pretty strident opinion, which of course you are entitled to.

Mine's different, because I became a sports fan before the era before free agency in any US sport, where players were basically the owner's beotches. Talk of splitting the revenue 50/50 with the players would have been laughable then. Owners controlled every aspect of the player's career from the minor leagues till they retired.

This article doesn't really do him justice, but you might want to read about Marvin Miller and the changes before, during and after his career.

Personally, I feel that power has shifted too much to the players, but as Texan points out, a lot of that is because the owners can't discipline themselves and they decided to fight the players as well as each other rather than come up with a framework that would be best for the sport as a whole.

IMHO the NFL did a great job of creating such a framework, but their owners had the luxury of seeing what Marvin Miller and the MLBPA could achieve to convince them such a framework was needed.

To me the other sports have failed at some of the basic things needed to keep the game competitive, mostly due to owner's greed and the lack the foresight needed to have such a framework. These things include too long a season with too many meaningless games, and too many playoff games (both because owners thought it'd make for some good paydays for them), and too many teams which just weakens the talent base and ends up putting franchises in places that can't support them (also because the owners wanted the franchise fees that new teams pay).



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5807 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
A lockout is by definition where management refuses to honor the contract, no?

Yes but in this case the contract did expire on Sept 15th. One has been happening more and more in all CBA negotiations is that both sides are using a strike or lockout as a method of first resort when it usually is that of last resort.

Quoting texan (Reply 16):
I doubt it. Didn't happen in baseball in 1994, unlikely to happen in the NHL. And the players crossing the line would be blacklisted in the future.

That was a strike, the players walked off the job and all agreed to not allow the 1994 season and World Series to happen. In a strike it is far less common for players to cross the line.

Just to say had last year's NFL lockout affected the camps and the season then there would have been replacement players used. It depends on the structure of the league and the NHL owners didn't have a plan for this where I'm sure the NFL did.

Quoting texan (Reply 16):
But the biggest problem is the boneheaded deals owners give to players. So now they are looking to renege on or restructure multiple contracts that they handed out and now regret. Too bad. If you're an owner and you're in trouble you only have yourself to blame.

This is one area I side with the union, they see this as a method to control themselves. It comes down to personal responsibility and if you sign 110 million 13 year contracts I don't have any sympathy for you.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
To me the other sports have failed at some of the basic things needed to keep the game competitive, mostly due to owner's greed and the lack the foresight needed to have such a framework. These things include too long a season with too many meaningless games, and too many playoff games (both because owners thought it'd make for some good paydays for them), and too many teams which just weakens the talent base and ends up putting franchises in places that can't support them (also because the owners wanted the franchise fees that new teams pay).

Regarding the NHL at least 4-6 teams need to fold and two need to move back to Canada. The league cannot support 30 teams and would be best with 24-26 and in a game as physical as hockey the seasons should be dropped to about 70 games. Bonuses here would be teams in markets that can support them, better talent pool and healthier players.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11951 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5805 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 18):
Regarding the NHL at least 4-6 teams need to fold and two need to move back to Canada. The league cannot support 30 teams and would be best with 24-26 and in a game as physical as hockey the seasons should be dropped to about 70 games. Bonuses here would be teams in markets that can support them, better talent pool and healthier players.

Agree totally, however, I can't see any feasible way for this to happen.

Hockey is a great sport to watch, especially live at the stadium. Unfortunately for it, a lot of the flow of the game, and the size, speed and skill of the players does not come out as well on TV as it does live, but it seems cameras are cheap enough now to capture a lot more of the action than was captured in earlier times.

The Stanley Cup finals can be as exiting an event as there is in all sports IMHO, and the ceremony at the end where the cup is awarded is one of the best in sports for its pure emotion, the victors and the vanquished both shaking hands. The act itself a testament to sportsmanship, IMHO.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11139 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5802 times:

They should not start playing again until they agree that the Canucks WILL win the Cup!!


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2654 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5799 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting seb146 (Reply 20):

Boy I guess this lock out will last longer than expected . We all know the next cup winner will be the Wild  .
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11951 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5784 times:

Go Whale!




Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2751 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5766 times:

This is the NHLPA's proposal. Fehr said it was "at the limit of the best they could offer".

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...29/complete-nhlpa-offer-to-the-nhl



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2751 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5764 times:

TSN reporter Darren Dreger's message on Twitter: "Close on rev sharing, but no contract concessions and league remains firm on $211 mil Make Whole. Talks will continue, but may not meet Thur"

RDS reporter Renaud Lavoie confirmed soon after that there will be no talks tomorrow. Actually, no talks are planned at all at this stage.

So, are we moving towards another season cancelled?



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
25 jetblueguy22 : Yikes. The one thing in this whole fiasco I don't understand is the fact that they can pay these players less after they signed a contract. Take for
26 srbmod : It was mentioned during the last Lockout by one of the owners of the Thrashers, Steve Belkin. He got fined for saying that the owners planned to use
27 Post contains images PHX787 : As stated above the only viable thing I see them doing is making sure players aren't injured or playing while still not fully recovered. Other than t
28 connies4ever : Further expansion is the last thing the NHL needs: 1) talent pool just not there, including all of Canada, US, and Europe; 2) not enough viable marke
29 PHX787 : Well think of it this way: how about expanding the juniors and the college hockey program to CREATE the talent?
30 WrenchBender : There will still be a shortage of talent gifted enough to play in the NHL. What needs to happen is reduce the league to 28 teams. 2 conferences of 14
31 jetblueguy22 : I think the biggest problem is just the cost. Growing up I used to love watching hockey. My mom was an executive secretary for the whalers so I got t
32 yooyoo : "On pretty much every NHLPA conference call with the players in past weeks, there's been some discussion on the potential of decertification as an NHL
33 PHX787 : Well as sad as this sounds at least we have some time before this milestone is hit.
34 Post contains links GrahamHill : Unsurprisingly, the NHL has now cancelled all games until 14th December, as well as the All-Star game in Columbus. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=
35 Post contains images PHX787 : Well this is detrimental for the Jackets program. They only got this thing in the first place because they've been struggling big time since 2009. Gu
36 Post contains images GrahamHill : That's what I did. With some friends, we went to see the McGill Redmen vs the Nipissing Lakers last Saturday. For 10 bucks each, we had an excellent
37 Post contains links StarAC17 : Some good news on the lockout front, both parties look like they will agree to let this go to arbitration. http://www.torontosun.com/2012/11/26...labo
38 PHX787 : THIS is something which should have been done months ago, before the lockout even began.
39 jetblueguy22 : Well unfortunately both sides were hoping they could get what they wanted without arbitration. It's a step but I won't be excited until they drop the
40 Post contains images PHX787 : Happy Joining Day anniversary, by the way Well both sides are meeting tomorrow, and reportedly, both sides are sick of the whole thing. I hope that's
41 yooyoo : I believe both sides have agreed to a mediator. Mediation is not binding. It's just a third party trying to help the process. Mediators were used in
42 garnetpalmetto : Largely correct. Mediation and arbitration are both forms of alternative dispute resolution that feature a third party trying to help the process. Me
43 jetblueguy22 : Thanks! Can't believe it has been 5 years! Bummer, I was hoping for arbitration. It's a step, but whether or not it is in the right direction I'm not
44 Post contains links and images PHX787 : God damn it: http://www.nj.com/rangers/index.ssf/..._lockout_update_nhl_nhlpa_m_1.html "Meeting with mediators ends with both sides still far apart"
45 connies4ever : Seems that both Bettman and Fehr will NOT be at the meeting, so perhaps room for optimism. One of the owners who will be present is Mark Chipman of Wi
46 yooyoo : as per Aaron Ward- "Source,Meeting involving NHL Owners and Players to take place Tuesday with 6 Owners and approximately same number of players" Jer
47 Aaron747 : These people are idiots, the whole lot of them. Millions of dollars for a game boys play, and you'd think nobody on either side ever thought for a mom
48 brilondon : The first thing I am going to say about the lockout is who cares any more? I can't see any thing happening soon. The mediators could not come up with
49 AirframeAS : Good luck to a owner trying to challenge a player's contract in court. A contract is a contract after all. This whole NHL lock-out is ridiculous and
50 garnetpalmetto : Are not the problem. Go to a Preds game. Really go to one. They have some of the most passionate fans in the game. Tampa was 2nd in the league for av
51 Post contains images WestJet747 : Huh? All those teams, except for the Islanders, have excellent attendance.
52 StarAC17 : My opinion of a successful team is one that can fill the seats when the team sucks, in most sports you can get the fans coming when a team is a conte
53 Post contains images GrahamHill : So you want to kick out the 1st (Chicago), 8th (Vancouver), 11th (Pittsburgh) and 12th (Washington) teams in terms of attendance? Not to mention that
54 jetblueguy22 : I'm not sure you have much exposure to the jets. I like about two hours south of Winnipeg in Grand Forks, ND. Every weekend a ton of Canadians come s
55 PHX787 : PHX as well. Every game I went to at Jobing.com Arean last year was packed to the brim. There are some people really passionate about hockey. Althoug
56 StarAC17 : A lockout is management (the owners) saying unless you abide by what we want we aren't letting you work and we will take the losses on no revenue com
57 brilondon : I believe that eventually we will see the two Florida teams in QC and maybe Toronto as its second team, and the Islanders move to maybe Cleveland or
58 garnetpalmetto : They do now. At various points in their history, however, not so much. Not too long ago, the Pens couldn't draw flies to Melon. The AHL Chicago Wolve
59 yooyoo : as for the current talks between NHL and players: NHL is trying to postpone Quebec Labor Board meetings in Montreal tomorrow and Fri. If CBA mtngs con
60 Post contains images GrahamHill : We're almost there, we're almost there, I can feel it!
61 Post contains images yooyoo : that's what my wife said last night then i had to Bettman her and say sorry...
62 Post contains images GrahamHill : According to Pierre LeBrun on Twitter: "Needless to say, today is a HUGE day. Either traction brings it to another level or it goes off the rails agai
63 Post contains images PHX787 : Jeez it's about time something happens.
64 connies4ever : Then how do you rationalise the Toronto Maple Leafs ? Since they haven't really done anything on the ice since my balls started to drop, they should
65 GrahamHill : Latest tweet from LeBrun: "There was talk in BOG of possible NHL schedule IF there's a deal. One team exec said 60 games likely too much but 50-plus p
66 GrahamHill : Ok, so Bettman's press conference was extremely short, to say the least. He just said he was happy with the ongoing talks and that he would take no qu
67 yooyoo : i read if a deal was signed on the weekend, training camps start the following Wednesday, season starts Dec. 20th and includes 56 games. Merry Christm
68 Post contains images GrahamHill : Tweet from Thomas Roost, NHL scout in Europe: "#NHL #lockout players in Europe get text messages from their NHL-headcoaches to get ready to return. De
69 yooyoo : nice tweet! i wonder if Bettman will still hand over the cup to the winning captain?
70 garnetpalmetto : They, along with the Habs, are the exception to the rule, I'd say. For one they have an incredible corporate ticket base (to the point where I often
71 GrahamHill : Yes. Hopefully it's accurate. I would doubt that an NHL scout would tweet this without sources, though. Bettman should actually resign right after an
72 yooyoo : right after he cashes his cheque. the previous winning team captain should hand over the cup, sort of like the Master Green Jacket tradition.
73 connies4ever : In case you missed it, the Buds have not actually won anything since 1967. And, they basically have not been competitive in the past 20 or so years.
74 Post contains images srbmod : The Atlanta Thrashers were a great example of this. They were putting together a pretty decent team during the years that Time-Warner owned the team
75 Post contains images PHX787 : FINALLY something to smile about!!!!! About ready to get my Habs and Yotes gear together
76 jetblueguy22 : Well all the NHL media folks I follow were talking all night like they were about to sign the papers. Apparently not so much. They're going to meet ag
77 PHX787 : Friend of mine said something should be reached by friday.....hopefully this doesn't end up being like the AI debacle
78 jetblueguy22 : Well it sounds like they are bringing Bettman and Fehr back today. Can't wait to hear how they destroyed everything accomplished yesterday. Blue
79 GrahamHill : Fehr just declared that apart from transition issues, both parties have a full agreement on dollars. Tweet from LeBrun: "Fehr feels both sides should
80 GrahamHill : Ok, forget it, the NHL declined the offer - once more. This is getting ridiculous for real.
81 jetblueguy22 : Bettman and Fehr should go pound sand. They sounded like they had such momentum last night and then they managed to cram their egos in the room and sc
82 srbmod : I think it's time to blow up the NHL and start a new league. I'm sure some of the Russian billionaires that own teams in the KHL would be willing to h
83 Post contains images PHX787 : COME ON!!!!!!!! This is outrageous!!!! Bettman needs to go ruin the NBA because we don't need him screwing my favorite sport over even more!!!! I com
84 FlyKev : I live in the hope that when I check NHL.com in the morning as I get up somehow magically everything has been sorted; but as the days go on my expecta
85 Post contains images GrahamHill : Ron Burkle: "I believe a deal was within reach. I hope that going backwards does not prevent a deal." They were this close to a deal and they all blew
86 WestJet747 : They never should have let Bettman and Fehr back in the room... No disrespect srbmod, but you're way off the mark here. As I try to mention as often
87 Post contains images connies4ever : Amazing they could physically enter the room once they're egos had preceded them. If only someone could channel Clarence Campbell. Old school, for su
88 yooyoo : i've only read what happened last night, but i would like to see the video of Bettman being "livid". Anybody got a link?
89 Post contains links GrahamHill : RDS posted the video on their website: http://www.rds.ca/zone-video/#cat=122&videoID=116995 And the journalists' questions: http://www.rds.ca/zon
90 yooyoo : Thanks for that !! It baffels my mind.
91 srbmod : A business that under its' current leadership is a disappointment. The NHL continues to alienate their fan base with work stoppages that Bettman was
92 PHX787 : Problem is, he practically owns the NHL....can anyone actually remove him? Do u know of anyone who would be able to fill such a role today?
93 Post contains images Revelation : Bettman looks to be the definitive "dick with ears"!
94 Post contains links srbmod : Someone like current NHL VP of Hockey and Business Development Brendan Shanahan comes to mind immediately. During the last lockout while still a play
95 Post contains links and images GrahamHill : LeBrun still thinks a deal is possible: http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...res-why-were-still-close-to-a-deal I also agree with his last paragraph
96 WestJet747 : Yet revenues are at record levels? No question that he hasn't acted in the best interest of the fans...but he has certainly acted in the best interes
97 AirframeAS : How much cash has the NHL made this season so far, EXCLUDING merchandise?? I disagree. Locking the players out is not the answer. They are making NO
98 WestJet747 : You think that the NHL only makes money from game and merchandise revenue? For starters, merchandise isn't actually controlled by the NHL. They licen
99 ltbewr : I wish the host cities and states of these NHL teams, who may be losing millions a week in income, sales and corporate tax revenues and may have give
100 Post contains images AirframeAS : Please, enlighten me. I'm dying to know. We already established that. But how is Bettman doing the best interest of the NHL helping the each citys ec
101 Post contains images WestJet747 : Agreed on all points. A cash-rich entity such as the NHL can quite easily last the entire season without a game played. Only if it stretches into nex
102 Post contains images StarAC17 : The owners can but they want this so they love him right now. In all the pro-sports today most ownership in among many groups which have revenue comi
103 srbmod : If it wasn't for the NHLPA, the NHL would likely still have the "reserve clause" which essentially meant that the team that drafted you "owned" you a
104 WestJet747 : I'm not disputing what either of you are saying. I know that unions were put in place in every pro sport in order to protect the players, and they di
105 AirframeAS : That is exactly what I meant in terms of the economy would dip in each city when the NHL, the NBA, the MLB and the NFL not playing. But no, as WestJe
106 Revelation : Indeed, but I can't help but go back to the fact that each one of those union contracts was signed by the league (i.e. the union of the owners) and e
107 Post contains images connies4ever : Forbes recently estimating that Winnipeg (smallest city, smallest arena) netted about $13M on revenue of around $105-110M. Depends on marketing. One
108 Post contains images WestJet747 : I never said that. I said that the economy plays no part in the CBA negotiations, nor should it. I think you're pretty on point there. The owners mus
109 Post contains images Revelation : We didn't need to know that!
110 brilondon : Obviously they have no interest in keeping their fans happy or they would be playing hockey. The real problem is that the NHL has no multi-year billi
111 Post contains images PHX787 : Yet they almost pulled out of PHX and they left ATL Not saying I'm not grateful for my Yotes, it's just that it's not maintained well.
112 StarAC17 : Then we should send the NHL a statement and not come back when this gets settled. The owners know the fans will so they can stop the game for more th
113 connies4ever : They do have a multi-year contract with NBC that, while not on the same level as the NFL, obviously, is not nothing. What is interesting to me is tha
114 yooyoo : NHL cancels games through to December 30th, Merry Christmas
115 Post contains links and images PHX787 : Did you find an article for that? Here's some interesting reads: http://www.nj.com/rangers/index.ssf/..._lockout_update_gary_bettma_3.html http://www
116 connies4ever : Tell ya' something: here's a guy who's pulling $5.5M every year and had NO goals last year, I think maybe 7 or 8 assists. Talk about egregious. On th
117 yooyoo : sorry, forgot to type "expect the...." got that from a few tweets this morning.
118 GrahamHill : Not surprising. They previously cancelled up to the 14th, so unless they find an agreement today, the season is not likely to start before early Janu
119 Post contains links yooyoo : http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=647344&cmpid=fb here it is.....
120 Post contains images PHX787 : And the media world remains quiet about this Sad to see how poor coverage this is getting. Who gives a damn about basketball at this stage
121 yooyoo : The Declaration of Independance was written and adopted in less than a month; CBA negotiations approaching 3 months - just saying another tweet the St
122 Post contains links and images srbmod : I can't blame the guy, as where would you rather be playing your home games at in the middle of winter, Atlanta or Winnipeg? Some of the Jets players
123 Post contains links and images WestJet747 : This article is the best I could find that discusses Hainsey's positions and controversies: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opin...on-hainsey-the-nhl
124 srbmod : Since when are blueliners not named Dustin Byfuglien expected to score a decent number of goals? His assist numbers have been in decline the last sev
125 brilondon : I agree. I have not gone to an NHL game since the last lockout. I would suggest though you have to convince the idiots who support the Maple Leafs to
126 srbmod : OLN? They dropped that name prior to the 2006-07 NHL season and renamed the channel Versus. In the wake of the network's owner Comcast taking over NB
127 PHX787 : This is taking forever. Yeah agreed. I'm not expecting much at all. Is he to blame for some of the indecisiveness?
128 StarAC17 : Those guys probably negotiated day and night until they got a deal. The NHL clearly isn't doing this and trying to stiff arm their leverage for a goo
129 Post contains links GrahamHill : Both sides will meet again on Wednesday, according to different sources. Meeting location unknown at the moment.
130 Post contains images yooyoo : you know the season is over when Crosby signs in Europe. my brain and not my heart is saying this, but i think they will resolve their issues and a 40
131 yooyoo : well, somebody found the meeting location......... CBA meetings between NHL and NHLPA that are to take place at undisclosed location WILL involve a me
132 Post contains images srbmod : I hear it's at a Tim Horton's located between Toronto and Buffalo....... I'm sure that wherever this meeting will be held at, someone will tweet the
133 PHX787 : They haven't used mediators before? What about the federal guys from the other week?
134 yooyoo : Scot L. Beckenbaugh and John Sweeney (federal mediators) will be used.
135 casinterest : I thought they already used the Feds last week? I just have no failth in these clowns. I plan to not attend a hockey game for at least two years afte
136 brilondon : You have to realize that the players have no real world experience in negotiation, they are only in their late teens to their twenties so I think tha
137 GrahamHill : From Darren Dreger's tweet: Bettman, please cancel the whole season. Seriously, cancel it! What's the point of all this crap?! If there is ANY season
138 Post contains links srbmod : Here's the makeup of the NHLPA Negotiating Committee: Craig Adams Adrian Aucoin Alex Auld David Backes Marty Biron Brad Boyes Chris Campoli B.J. Crom
139 Post contains images GrahamHill :
140 Post contains images Revelation : Excellent choice. Perhaps all the tasty goodies there will put them in a good mood, and the caffeine will help them bargain till a deal is done. Much
141 PHX787 : Shane Doan's on that list, who has been through 2 lockouts so far. Good ol Grandpa Coyote should be doing work.
142 yooyoo : decertification is rearing it's ugly head again.
143 Post contains images WestJet747 : Mediators technically aren't "Feds" since their decision isn't legally binding. It only gets serious when arbitrators get involved. I hope you don't
144 Post contains links PHX787 : Reportedly in full swing: http://www.nj.com/rangers/index.ssf/...hl_lockout_update_nhl_files_c.html http://www.nj.com/rangers/index.ssf/...hl_lockout
145 yyz717 : Bettman is a lightning rod, but he's basically playing the (correct) mgmt role of trying to manage down union demands. The NHLPA is just laughable. I
146 srbmod : Well the fans declared a "disclaimer of interest" a lot earlier than the NHLPA. While we're at it, can we have the NHLPA also declare a "disclaimer of
147 PHX787 : How my views have indeed changed, yeah I see this as an inevitability. Try telling that to your fellow statesmen in Canada. For a lot of people, hock
148 yyz717 : No Canadians are dying from a lack of hockey. Life goes on.
149 StarAC17 : A Canadian here, it really hasn't affected me much if anything at all. There is hockey to watch and without the NHL the minor leagues get a lot more
150 jetblueguy22 : I'm thinking the hockey is life belief is more of a stereotype of our northern neighbors than truth. Not to mention if hockey really is life, you fin
151 WestJet747 : Funny you mention that. I'm on a team at my business school that helps exchange students get settled here in Canada as well, and I find that a few ar
152 brilondon : From what I have seen while I was there, the withdrawal symptoms are far less this year than when they cancelled the season last time. Most people do
153 PHX787 : https://www.facebook.com/NHL/posts/379871968771687 Games cancelled through Jan. 14.
154 jetblueguy22 : They should just cancel the season. It's just a tease at this point. I'm sick of hearing "positive" news, only to hear these two knuckleheads (Fehr an
155 WestJet747 : I was moreso referring to the more remote communities that have little more than a couple house league teams. But you're definitely right about the j
156 Post contains links and images srbmod : I concur, as it's more and more obvious that these two clowns are stubborn to the point that neither side is willing to give an inch. The NHLPA reape
157 Post contains links iowaman : As Part 3 has been started please continue the discussion here: NHL Update PT 3- Decisions Being Made (by PHX787 Jan 2 2013 in Non Aviation)
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
NHL Lockout Update: Games Cancelled Through 11/30 posted Fri Oct 26 2012 11:41:14 by PHX787
Jon Gruden To Join Monday Night Football. posted Mon May 18 2009 12:43:51 by Fxramper
Britney In Talks To Launch Reality Show Of Tour posted Wed Apr 14 2004 23:53:40 by ConcordeBoy
NHL: NY Islanders Moving To Brooklyn posted Wed Oct 24 2012 13:27:19 by jfk69
Israeli Suggests Steps To Aid Peace Talks posted Thu Mar 18 2010 23:08:58 by TheCommodore
Yemen President: Open To Talks With Al-Qaeda posted Sun Jan 10 2010 11:56:06 by FuturePilot16
Need To Send Picture With A Resume. Suggestions? posted Sun Sep 6 2009 18:07:09 by FLY2HMO
Former Australian FM Downer To Chair Cyprus Talks posted Fri Jul 25 2008 04:11:49 by Beaucaire
Apple Charging $10 To Update Ipod Touch Firmware posted Sun Jul 20 2008 08:20:18 by LHMARK
ESPN: Lloyd Carr To Call It Quits Monday posted Sat Nov 17 2007 17:34:13 by Falcon84