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Maryland Leaving The ACC  
User currently onlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5364 posts, RR: 53
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2289 times:

Looks like it's official - the University of Maryland will be leaving the ACC to join the Big Ten. Rutgers will be next leaving the Big East to accept a Big Ten bid. Probably steps after that are the ACC extending an invite to UConn...I thought we were done with realignment after the Notre Dame to the ACC deal!

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...nvitation-join-big-ten-sources-say


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

This would be a huge win for the Big Ten. Getting their foot in the Baltimore/DC and New York/New Jersey TV markets will be extremely lucrative for them.

Supposedly, they are looking to go all the way to sixteen teams with Texas at the top of their wish list.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
Supposedly, they are looking to go all the way to sixteen teams with Texas at the top of their wish list.

Now that's funny. Texas isn't going to bolt out of the Big 12 anytime soon unless the whole thing shuts down. They gave up *13* years of media rights to the Big 12. If they leave, they are out a ton of cash for over a decade.

I think 14 is going to be a good solid number for conferences to settle at. Of course the next part of this is who will the PAC 12 go after and who with the Big 12 go after. Louisville was the 2nd choice for the Big 12 after WVU, so they could end up there. Clemson and Florida State have also shown interest in the recent past. I could also see Georgia Tech or Cincinnati go to the Big 12.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 2):
Of course the next part of this is who will the PAC 12 go after

God, we don't need any more teams. 12 is enough. However, we should have never taken in Colorado and Utah, going with some other two teams, preferably Boise State and Hawaii would have been my picks.

We don't need 14 teams in any conference. 14 is ridiculous.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 3):
God, we don't need any more teams. 12 is enough. However, we should have never taken in Colorado and Utah, going with some other two teams, preferably Boise State and Hawaii would have been my picks.

Those of us here in the Big 12 thank you for taking Colorado.  

I agree with you that Boise and Hawaii would have been better picks. Might still be options if the Big East continues to flop.


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2747 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

I think the Big 12 pretty much has to make some kind of move to at least 12 schools and put some distance between themselves and the ACC. It's about keeping up in the court of public opinion so their teams get a fair shot at the playoff and national title. They'd be well served to make it a clear division between the big four coferences and everyone else. Grab Florida State and Clemson and they will have created that division.

I'm not sure if the PAC 12 has to do anything, and I don't think they see any really attractive options anyway. Also, from a money and academics standpoint (the things that matter to the school presidents) Utah and Colorado were the best two team option once Big 12 schools were off the table.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4378 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):

Supposedly, they are looking to go all the way to sixteen teams with Texas at the top of their wish list.

That ship has sailed. That was the case several years ago.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 5):
Utah and Colorado were the best two team option once Big 12 schools were off the table.

At the time, yes. But not now.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2747 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 7):

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 5):
Utah and Colorado were the best two team option once Big 12 schools were off the table.

At the time, yes. But not now.

Who would be better options now?



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 8):
Who would be better options now?

How come no one reads anymore?! See:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 3):
Boise State and Hawaii would have been my picks.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Mountain West has contacted Boise State, BYU and SDSU about rejoining.

SDSU has declined and wants to stay with the Big East.

Big 12 and Pac 12 apparently are saying they are okay with their current numbers, but you have to think they are still talking and planning right now. This is all about money.


User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2747 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 9):
How come no one reads anymore?

I thought that must have been a joke to actually suggest those two would have been better additions.

Boise is just barely above a community college academically, and they have a market of that's about as big as Spokane.

Hawaii is absolutely terrible this season, and also a far smaller market than either Utah or Colorado. Nice road trip though.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
I thought that must have been a joke to actually suggest those two would have been better additions.

Sorry to disappoint you, I wasn't kidding.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Boise is just barely above a community college academically, and they have a market of that's about as big as Spokane.

Same thing with Washington State University, the Community College of the Pac-12.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3387 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Hawaii is absolutely terrible this season, and also a far smaller market than either Utah or Colorado. Nice road trip though.

Yeah but to tell a recruit he'll go to Hawai'i at least 1x (maybe 2x if he's in the same division) That can't hurt.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2747 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 11):
Boise is just barely above a community college academically, and they have a market of that's about as big as Spokane.

Same thing with Washington State University, the Community College of the Pac-12.

The two aren't even comparable academically. Pac-12 schools all share a common bond of high levels of research at their universities. Washington State is toward the lower end of the Pac-12 in that department, but still leaps and bounds ahead of Boise State University. BSU isn't anything like the Pac-12.

Hawaii is actually one of the few options left in the west that would be close to the Pac-12 academically if the Big 12 can't be touched. It's basically Hawaii, New Mexico, and Colorado State, but CSU would be a redundant market, which is a problem since they don't bring new television subscribers for the Pac cable network. After those three you have to go all the way to University of Houston or Rice University to find someone else that might be palatable academically to the Pac-12.


Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 13):
Yeah but to tell a recruit he'll go to Hawai'i at least 1x (maybe 2x if he's in the same division) That can't hurt.

It certainly can't hurt from a recruiting standpoint, but right now the Pac gets nearly all the top recruits out west so I don't think Hawaii helps in any significant way either.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3387 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 2175 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 10):
SDSU has declined and wants to stay with the Big East.

Maybe they could be lured to the Pac12 along with UNLV or Hawai'i. Three new TV markets. Maybe only Hawai'i in the same academic league. Just something wrong with SDSU being in the Big East.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2165 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
Washington State is toward the lower end of the Pac-12 in that department, but still leaps and bounds ahead of Boise State University.

While that is true, Boise State's athletic department is far better.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
Hawaii, New Mexico, and Colorado State

Hawaii brings a hell of a lot more to the Pac-12 than New Mexico & Colorado State combined. Adding NM and CSU would be suicide.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
After those three you have to go all the way to University of Houston or Rice University to find someone else that might be palatable academically to the Pac-12.

That wouldn't make sense geographically. Larry Scott isn't that stupid.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
I don't think Hawaii helps in any significant way either.

Washington and a few other Pac-12 schools have a lot of Hawaiians.   

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 15):
Maybe they could be lured to the Pac12 along with UNLV or Hawai'i

Sticking to the Pacific theme, I'd rather take Nevada over UNLV.

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 13):
Yeah but to tell a recruit he'll go to Hawai'i at least 1x (maybe 2x if he's in the same division) That can't hurt.

That, to me, sends the wrong message to recruits. You're not going to Hawaii to go on vacation, you're going to Hawaii on "business". The focus is supposed to be winning the football game. When an opponent is playing at Hawaii, their players are on a very, very short leash.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 2166 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 14):
The two aren't even comparable academically.

First commandment of college sports: Thou shalt not care about academics if winning matters.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
That, to me, sends the wrong message to recruits. You're not going to Hawaii to go on vacation, you're going to Hawaii on "business". The focus is supposed to be winning the football game.

You're talking about 17 and 18 year old kids. That sort of things sells, along with cool uniforms and state of the art facilities.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2164 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
You're talking about 17 and 18 year old kids.

18-21 yer old kids. I've never heard of a kid get a scholarship at 17. But you get my point and its pretty spot on.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
I've never heard of a kid get a scholarship at 17.

Tim Floyd was offering scholarships to 8th graders when he was at USC.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
But you get my point and its pretty spot on.

Coaches need to sell kids on what appeals to them. Academics don't matter. Uniforms, trips to Hawaii, and the ability to become a millionaire sells to them. They're kids, they don't think these things through all the way.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2747 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2156 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 17):
First commandment of college sports: Thou shalt not care about academics if winning matters.

Depends on your place in the conference pecking order. The Big 10 has not added a school that was not an AAU member. Nebraska was subsequently booted from the AAU, but the school presidents take it seriously in the Big 10. The Pac-12 can also be choosy in selecting schools that will be good for research collaboration. The Big East has been so decimated that they've had no option but to grab any schools that will bring football respectability and the ACC may be headed that direction. Academics matter until survival is on the line.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 16):
Hawaii brings a hell of a lot more to the Pac-12 than New Mexico & Colorado State combined. Adding NM and CSU would be suicide.

I don't think that's the case at all. Lets look at the three schools and their markets.

Hawaii dominates their market, but there's only 1.4 million people on the islands. They've had one BCS bowl appearance which is a big plus and the fans turned out in droves for those teams, but the football program appears to be hitting rock bottom right now. Olympic sports aren't anything special. Decent cultural fit with the west coast schools. Another selling point is that anyone that plays a football game in Honolulu gets to schedule a 13th game, so Pac-12 members in their division would get to add a revenue generating home game every other year.

New Mexico is the most prominent team in their market of 2 million, but some of the southern and eastern parts of the state root for New Mexico State and Texas Tech. Probably ends up similar to Hawaii in total market presence. Football appears to be rebounding from rock bottom, but has never been a great program. Basketball program is the big plus to the school, with Lobo mens basketball being in the top 25 in the nation in attendance every year for the last four decades. Die hard support for this program. Women's basketball is top ten in the nation in attendance, making it one of the few schools that doesn't lose money on the sport. Doesn't have much in common with the west coast schools, but fits nicely with Pac-12 members Arizona, Arizona State and Utah.

Colorado State has the best academics of the three. They are also in the largest media market of the three with over five million people in Colorado. They also have more alumni in Denver than CU-Boulder. Football was good and well supported in the late 90s, but is rebuilding now. Culturally they are probably a better fit for the Big 12 than the Pac. The big downside though is that the Pac-12 network already gets on TV sets in Colorado, so adding the Rams doesn't get you any additional money from cable subscriptions.

Neither Hawaii or New Mexico will add enough money to make it worthwile to add them from that standpoint and that's why I doubt it would happen, but overall I think they're pretty equal. CSU is a good school, but not for the Pac-12 with their television model.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
Tim Floyd was offering scholarships to 8th graders when he was at USC.

Stupid recruiting, if you asked me. There is one kid in the 9th grade who made a verbal commit to Washington, that raised a lot if eyebrows in the Seattle area. It even made story on ESPN!

Quoting BMI727,reply=19Coaches need to sell kids on what appeals to them.][/quote]

I disagree. Reality needs to be taught. Giving these kids a false sense of security should be against NCAA rules.

[quote=BMI727
(Reply 19):
Academics don't matter.

Incorrect. They do matter. The NCAA cares a lot about that. Universities depend on high athlete graduation rates.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
Uniforms

  

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
trips to Hawaii

Not guaranteed.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
the ability to become a millionaire sells to them.

Not everyone makes it to the NFL. Another false sense of security. This is why academics are important, first and foremost. Get that degree to fall back on in case your NFL dreams don't happen.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
They're kids, they don't think these things through all the way.

That's why they still have parents. When a kid commits to a school, NCAA requires parents to sign the LOI as if it was a permission slip to go on a field trip.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2153 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 20):
Academics matter until survival is on the line.

...keep telling yourself that.

When it comes to athletic conferences, academics don't matter. Media markets matter. Winning matters. Money matters. Academics is something you pay lip service to.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
...keep telling yourself that.

  

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
When it comes to athletic conferences, academics don't matter. Media markets matter. Winning matters. Money matters. Academics is something you pay lip service to.

To the conferences, yes. But not to the schools nor the NCAA. You may want to rethink what you just said in the academics department, sir. The schools and the NCAA do care if an student athlete is failing classes, and if that student athlete continues to participate while failing classes, the NCAA goes after the school and the athlete.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 2130 times:

I'm an alumnus of Maryland. I'm in the minority of graduates of U of M that feel this is a good move. My main reason for my positive response for the change being the economic ramifications. Recently the largest University in our State cut a lot of great sports programs due to economics. Supposedly once this is in place the University will be able to re-instate many if not all the deleted sports programs. One which is swimming/diving. Though it doesn't have the financial bang or notoriety of Basketball or Football, many of our greatest competitive swimmers have come from collegiate programs. My Alma Mata built a state of the art massive Olympic quality indoor/outdoor aquatic center recently. Though Michael Phelps did not attend Maryland, he is one of several elite swimmers to come from my locale. A giant University (over 35,000) students should have a viable aquatics program. The next Michael Phelps or Natalie Coughlin could be a few exits up I-95 and could go out of state if Maryland does not re-instate it's aquatics program.

Many have argued that Maryland Terps Football would become a perennial loser in the Big 10. Northwestern comes to mind they had 20 or so losing seasons in a row but have since improved. If our Orioles in the MLB can go from worst to first so can our Terps football team whether it be the ACC or the Big 10.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
25 Post contains links BMI727 : It probably is, but some coaches are willing to risk it. ...because all these schools are great about following NCAA rules right now? Coaches are tas
26 bjorn14 : Hmmm...interesting. Althouugh I'm not sure it applies to conference members. Not to mention chartered wide-bodies to away games.
27 Post contains images AirframeAS : It never appealed to me nor my teammates when we were playing in high school. We didn't care about that. Oh, wow! Shiny uniforms! Like I said...... T
28 bjorn14 : Well, schools ultimately can be kicked out of Div. I if their APR falls below a certain level
29 AirframeAS : Correct you are sir. Correct you are. However, I have never seen that happen.....at least not yet.
30 BMI727 : When you have a dozen or so top programs coming for you and one of them is bankrolled by Nike, it matters. Again, these are kids. They just see bowl
31 AirframeAS : Oregon is not bankrolled by Nike, neither is Oregon State. If they were, the NCAA would have a field day with that. We are talking about Hawaii, not
32 Alias1024 : Does it sound better if it's said that they're bankrolled by Nike founder Phil Knight instead of Nike itself? Oregon football was an absolute punchin
33 AirframeAS : Source? The NCAA would consider that as a "booster giveaway", which is against the rules. Oregon has had to pay some dollar amount for these uniforms
34 Alias1024 : Nobody is suggesting Phil Knight gives gifts directly to the athletes. As a booster he gives money to the university. The university spends it on faci
35 Post contains links BMI727 : Yes they are. Phil Knight and some other Nike people are big donors to their program and make sure they are hooked up with the latest gear. Guys like
36 us330 : Disagree, only because of the money issue and television markets--Utah and Colorado bring much bigger TV markets to the table than Hawaii and Boise S
37 MD-90 : It is an absolute fact that Jerrell Powe cannot read yet after his two year eligibility battle he managed to qualify and Ole Miss gleefully had him pl
38 Alias1024 : The Air Force Academy is certainly a great school, but it's mission is completely different from PAC-12 members. They don't engage in much academic r
39 AirframeAS : No, it isn't. It's called refining your craft. Take Jake Locker for example. He came back for another year and gave up millions before the new rookie
40 bjorn14 : Yep, I remember SMU DL Michael Carter (also National HS shot put champ) wanting to major in Engineering but the field work labs conflicted with FB so
41 Post contains links garnetpalmetto : And as another instance let's look at an athlete who took academics VERY seriously - Florida State safety Myron Rolle. So seriously that Rolle was a
42 BMI727 : You're going to cite Jake Locker as your example? Really, of all people, Jake Locker? Let's review a bit. After the 2009 season, Locker was considere
43 garnetpalmetto : Rumors going around the Internet suggest that the Big Ten extended invites to UNC and UVA and the SEC may extend invites to Clemson and Florida State.
44 casinterest : This would be too good to be true. There are a ton of SEC fans in tthe triangle and eastern NC that would love for this to happen, just to be able to
45 Alias1024 : Being reported Tulane being added to the Big East as the replacement for Rutgers. Also rumors that East Carolina will be added to the Big East in foot
46 AirframeAS : So friggin what! That's his choice, not yours. He decided to come back on his own, KNOWING about the CBA on rookie pay was changing dramatically. To
47 Post contains links garnetpalmetto : The ACC is suing Maryland for the exit fee http://espn.go.com/college-sports/st...ued-acc-exit-fee-big-ten-departure And UNC AD Bubba Cunningham e-mai
48 AirframeAS : So, they are suing Maryland for something that has no happened yet....just to make sure that Maryland pays the exit fee, in which the ACC fears that
49 Post contains links garnetpalmetto : Based on SI's article covering same: The lawsuit also states that Maryland President Wallace D. Loh has "refused to provide assurance'' that the scho
50 AirframeAS : In other words: "We, at the ACC, are pissed off that Maryland has voted down the exit fee agreement and we do not trust that they will not pay the ex
51 Post contains links garnetpalmetto : For what it's worth the complaint has gone up now http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/doc...sity-of-maryland-college-park/154/ Per the complaint, the wi
52 ouboy79 : I don't see SC or Florida allowing Clemson and FSU to get invites. They've always made sure not to let them in. If the Big Ten takes UNC and UVA that
53 AirframeAS : This makes me wonder....interesting indeed. Why didn't the ACC mention that in its lawsuit against Maryland? This gives Maryland more ammo, citing no
54 ouboy79 : I don't think the ACC can afford to lose it. If they do, I would completely expect FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech, and Virginia Tech evaluate on how to e
55 bjorn14 : They'll probably settle for the original $10MM exit fee or slightly higher.
56 AirframeAS : You are probably right.... I still see that as a "loss" for the ACC.
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