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Is This Really Disrespectful?  
User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2956 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

This image has been generating some controversy with some suggesting that she be fired. Apparently she was in Washington on work related business. Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?



But to be fair the guards at Arlington are famous for reprimanding people for being noisy :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYCPbP_a46I

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...166842.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular

Your thoughts ???


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
84 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2838 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4230 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

I find it disrespectful for sure. It's one thing if you say a quiet please sign in an office, but the National Cemetery, that's just not right. I don't think she should be fired for this if this was done on her own time. Sure she represents the company, but unless she posted it in an official company communication it is all on her.
Blue



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6596 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4221 times:
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Why bother to fire her? She´s obviously so stupid and disrespectful she´ll be fired soon anyway for something done at her place of employment with lot less controversy and publicity.

User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8764 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4217 times:

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Is This Really Disrespectful?

Yes, but it isn't scandalous unless you're an American militarist. I can easily imagine some of the people whose family members rest in that cemetary brushing it off.

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?

I don't know if it's legally possible, but that sort of prank certainly puts you in the firing line (yay, what a pun    ) if it is in any way possible to connect your antics to your employer.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10335 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?

I would think so. She posted it publicly (on Facebook), and the company paid for the trip.

Do I find it disrespectful? I don't know. If people want it to be disrespectful, then it's disrespectful. If people don't care, then it's not. I fall into the latter category. And I don't see why anyone should really care, aside from those who know and/or work with her. People do stupid, disrespectful things all day every day. Pointless trying to stop them all.

Hell, even the unit who guards the Tomb doesn't seem to care (at least publicly):

The Old Guard, the U.S. Army Infantry regiment that is charged with guarding the Tomb of the Unknowns and is famous for weathering literal storms, seems prepared to weather a social media storm as well. They told Gonzalez that Stone is entitled to her freedom of speech.

from http://todaynews.today.com/_news/201...ks-outrage-calls-for-womans-firing



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4180 times:

It's massively disrespectful, but pretty pointless sacking her. I tend to agree with the view that if she is that stupid she'll come undone at work anyway.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5783 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

It's a JOKE folks..... nothing to see here, move along.

My god we like to make such big issues of silly little things that everybody does or has done at one time or another (no I am not suggesting that YOU, perfect you, have done what this lady is doing. But certainly something stupid, disrespectful and done as a "funny").

Just let it be, we like far to much to butt in a complain about others nowadays.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1412 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4111 times:

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 4):
If people want it to be disrespectful, then it's disrespectful. If people don't care, then it's not.

Right. I think this a story looking for an audience. I think most people would see that we don't get to brag loudly and ceaselessly about "defending" freedom, and then turn around and be offended by as much.

Whether or not she can be sacked. This is America. We really don't offer much in the way of job security across the board, so that would be up to what her Company thinks of all this. Where I work, it's customary to avoid low-brow postings on social media, and of course, talking about the Company is something of a third rail. Nothing special there. If her Company feels the same, could be trouble, especially given how much modern Companies like

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):

Yes, but it isn't scandalous unless you're an American militarist. I can easily imagine some of the people whose family members rest in that cemetary brushing it off.

Yes, but "militarist" describes an increasing and vocal number of americans. From a PR standpoint, that can be a problem.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):
we like far to much to butt in a complain about others nowadays.

Sure, but here's the problem - stick things like that on the internet these days and there's not really much 'butting-in' called for, as these things come by without even looking for them. And that's the thing - we've all made stupid, and I'm sure at times pretty darn offensive jokes, but hopefully most of us have the brains to understand that spreading them online is a very stupid thing to do. You are in essence right, but you have to think about where these things might end up now.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1933 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
It's massively disrespectful, but pretty pointless sacking her. I tend to agree with the view that if she is that stupid she'll come undone at work anyway.

But as the employer, why wait until she makes another mistake?

If she worked for me, she would be canned pretty fast, and it has nothing to do with insulting the military. This woman clearly has incredibly poor judgement, and when working for a non-profit who likely has tighter budgets, there's too much risk in keeping someone who has difficulty making appropriate choices while representing the company.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1629 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4028 times:

I don't get why people are so up in arms about this whole deal, especially the military types. You signed up to go fight, fight for one of the rights she is exercising. You don't get to pout when the rights you signed up to defend are exercised in such a way that you don't agree with it.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlinetz757300 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2876 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4007 times:

Is it disrespectful? Yeah, I think it is, but I can't get mad because it's not a law to be quiet.

I have plenty of family members buried in there, and will be burying my grandma there in 9 days. It is a cemetery visited by masses of people every year. I don't think it is reasonable to expect 100% quiet and respect from everyone.

Now, THAT does open up something I really don't like, which is how the cemetery is now a major tourist attraction. If they really want respect, why market the place as somewhere everyone should visit?? That I find to be pretty disrespectful.



LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?

Yes, she can be fired. She was on a company trip and, presumably, associated her company with the posting.

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):
It's a JOKE folks..... nothing to see here, move along.

Yes, it is a joke, in fact, a quote from the joker in question"

"This is just us, being the douchebags that we are, challenging authority in general. Much like the pic posted the night before, of me smoking right next to a no smoking sign. OBVIOUSLY we meant NO disrespect to people that serve or have served our country."

But, here is the kicker, people can be fired for doing stupid things while representing their employer. Smoking next to a no smoking sign is NOT the same same flipping the bird in (at) the National Cemetery. Her employer has every right to take whatever action it deems required to maintain its good name and customer base.

Tugger, if you're not offended, then don't be offended. But others were offended and decided to express their feelings by signing a petition demanding that the employee get fired. Happens all the time. It is the prerogative of the employer to act on that petition or not.

And, no Mrs. Stone, it is not obvious to the millions who have seen this picture that you meant no disrespect. Actions have consequences.

[Edited 2012-11-21 15:21:23]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinesprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1855 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

It's funny. No reason to fire her.

FYI I am a vet, served 6 years in the Navy.

Now if it would have been in front of a grave, thats a different story.

Seems to me, those who are screaming about this need to get a life. Nothing wrong with it. She is doing something humorous. People are taking this out of context, and making something out of nothing. You would be shocked at the number of times I have "disrespected" the Navy, the military, and the flag while on active duty. Get over it people.

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3933 times:

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 13):
Now if it would have been in front of a grave, thats a different story.

   And there we have it! A great point. I could not agree more!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2466 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):

Yes, but there are times when if even it's entirely intended to be a joke, it flat out shouldn't be done. Her "shouting" isn't so bad, but the finger puts it over the line.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 10):
I don't get why people are so up in arms about this whole deal, especially the military types. You signed up to go fight, fight for one of the rights she is exercising.

Still doesn't make it right. This coming from a guy that never served.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

The question whether it is disrespectful is irrelevant. She was exercising her first amendment rights, which conservatives (and I count even the most liberal admirers of the military among those) seem to forget comes before the second amendment.


I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):

But as the employer, why wait until she makes another mistake?

If she worked for me, she would be canned pretty fast, and it has nothing to do with insulting the military. This woman clearly has incredibly poor judgement, and when working for a non-profit who likely has tighter budgets, there's too much risk in keeping someone who has difficulty making appropriate choices while representing the company.

Because unless it directly brings the company into disrepute, I really don't think companies should be controlling every stupid little thing people do outside of work. There is of course the chance she might not be as stupid or show such bad judgement in the workplace as she does out, so see how she does. It is the cse that we have probably all done silly things outside of work.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13198 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3844 times:

In this day and age where getting and keeping a job is so difficult, any little thing that makes the employer look bad will be used against you including Facebook and other social media postings. With social media, what you could keep among a few friends or family can, as here posted by someone who is friend (and then probably unfriendly) that goes viral worldwide. I have visited this site several times. I always showed respect. The woman didn't show the common sense one need from an employee so good riddence.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20336 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3820 times:

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 16):
The question whether it is disrespectful is irrelevant. She was exercising her first amendment rights, which conservatives (and I count even the most liberal admirers of the military among those) seem to forget comes before the second amendment.

Let's talk for a moment about what the First Amendment protects and what it doesn't protect.

The First Amendment protects her from criminal prosecution or even civil litigation for her free expression. I can stand on top of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and scream "All Hail Lord Satan!!" and the best they can get me for is trespassing and perhaps disturbing the peace.

Now, that said, the First Amendment does NOT mean that you have a right to do so without any repercussion whatsoever. Her employer would be perfectly within their right to fire her for such unprofessional behavior, especially while on a company-paid trip. Similarly, I can't walk up to my boss and call him some profanity and then expect the First Amendment to protect me from disciplinary action.


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 16):
The question whether it is disrespectful is irrelevant. She was exercising her first amendment rights, which conservatives (and I count even the most liberal admirers of the military among those) seem to forget comes before the second amendment.


The First Amendment does NOT restrain non-government actors. The First Amendment (as is the entire Bill of Rights and several other areas of the Constitution and its amendments) is a restraint against government. The government could not sanction her for what she has done. Her employer, most certainly can.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
Because unless it directly brings the company into disrepute,


And, who makes that judgement? I argue that it is ultimately up to the employer to make that judgement. In this case she was on a company sponsored trip, i.e. representing her employer, when she did this.

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 13):
Now if it would have been in front of a grave, thats a different story.


It really isn't for you to decide who is offended by what and who isn't offended. People get offended by the slightest things. Some folks make a career out of being offended. Others could care less.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3796 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):

Doc, you beat me to it. And, as usual, stated it more eloquently.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3767 times:

Well, it's a joke and if shared with a controlled group of people she knows well, I don't believe it's particularly disrespectful. She was disrespectful and VERY stupid when she posted the image on facebook for all the world to see

I don't know how many high profile social media screw-ups there has to be to teach people the dangers of this medium. The response and outrage is completely disproprtianate to her actions but them's the breaks on Facebook.

Should she be fired?, I don't think so, However, the company is between a rock and a hard place now in terms of PR. They will probably find a way to move her on.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):
If she worked for me, she would be canned pretty fast, and it has nothing to do with insulting the military. This woman clearly has incredibly poor judgement

  

Especially after reading this:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 12):
This is just us, being the douchebags that we are, challenging authority in general. Much like the pic posted the night before, of me smoking right next to a no smoking sign.

When people are traveling on the company dime, they are expected to act and dress professionally. This woman clearly has no common sense and is totally immature. If I was her employer, I wouldn't want somebody like her representing my place of business. This is the real world, not high school.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3739 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
Now, that said, the First Amendment does NOT mean that you have a right to do so without any repercussion whatsoever. Her employer would be perfectly within their right to fire her for such unprofessional behavior, especially while on a company-paid trip. Similarly, I can't walk up to my boss and call him some profanity and then expect the First Amendment to protect me from disciplinary action.

Surely, even on a business trip you have some recreational time during which you are not "on the clock"? If US law allows for private/corporate sanctions against sentiments people express while on their own time, I would say government by extension and indirectly infringes on said first amendment right. (But I will admit that I am a radical when it comes to protecting free speech, even hate speech, as much as I dislike it. At least it allows me to recognise the speaker for the a*hole they are.)

So unless this action has anything directly to do with her employer, which would render her unable to appropriately and credibly represent them henceforth, I see no grounds for firing her. (That would be you calling your boss some profanity, for example.)



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 24):
If US law allows for private/corporate sanctions against sentiments people express while on their own time,


But, is she on her own time? Even if this trip was optional, when she decided to go, she was representing her employer. Thus, her actions reflect on her employer.

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 24):
I am a radical when it comes to protecting free speech


I too am vehement about free speech. I am proud when I see the New Black Panthers spout hate or when the KKK takes to the streets. But, quite simply, the US Constitution does not restrict non-government entities, it restricts the government.

If The Congress were to enact a law that extended First Amendment restrictions to employers, wouldn't that infringe on The First Amendment rights of the employer?

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 24):
So unless this action has anything directly to do with her employer, which would render her unable to appropriately and credibly represent them henceforth, I see no grounds for firing her.


But, again, who makes that determination? I say the employer makes that determination and is well within its rights to sanction her as the employer sees fit.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineAeri28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 709 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

disrespectful? sure, I think so. Should she be fired. Well no to be honest, no not for this. Would I care if she were fired. No not at all. BUT BUT BUT, in today's world, we are simply responsib le for our actions online far more than we were five or ten years ago and beyond. Thing is, now if you post something online or say something, and if enough people find your actions not to their liking, they just may say something. In today's business climate, if you are deemed somehow a liability to the company, it's possible your postion can be affected. It is just how it is. I didn't fully read the article so have no idea if they stated her work position, but her full name is out there and google is a good friend to many, therefore, her actions may cause her issues down the road if someone in a position of hiring or promotion doesn't like her previous actions.

You really have to watch what you say, and do these days. i know a guy who posts constantly on facebook. His facebook name is his full first middle and last name. He posts comments on porn, his rants about the world or whatever. He is an open book. He does work but is underemployed and has been looking (major city) for years in a marketing capacity. Do you think he's found anything yet? No. Do you think with all the interviews he's had a prospective employer might have done a search for his name? Yes Im pretty sure they have.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20336 posts, RR: 59
Reply 27, posted (2 years 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 24):
Surely, even on a business trip you have some recreational time during which you are not "on the clock"?

Doesn't matter. Suppose one of your employees on his own time marched with a group like NAMBLA (a pro-pedophilia group).

Now, NAMBLA has every right to exist, although they do not have a right to actually "practice what they preach," but they do have the right to say that pedophilia should be legal.

I don't know about you, but on the clock or not, I'd fire such an employee.


User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5615 posts, RR: 28
Reply 28, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 16):

The question whether it is disrespectful is irrelevant. She was exercising her first amendment rights, which conservatives (and I count even the most liberal admirers of the military among those) seem to forget comes before the second amendment.


The greatest challenge to free speech is in the seemingly-unending wave of political correctness, and people who ascribe foul intent and meaning to the words of others, when such intent and meaning were not explicit.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 29, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Is This Really Disrespectful?

I would say so, yes. I don't care if it's Arlington or St. Zzwyxx's Cut-Rate Burial Ground, you don't set out to "be a douchebag" in a cemetery.

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?

She certainly can. Should she? I'd say probably. She was on a company trip, so was there as a representative of the company, and she was blatantly making an ass of herself. Not only was it very poor judgement on her part, it was done on company time, and most importantly she hasn't apologized. Saying "we didn't mean it that way, we were just being rebellious idiots" is not the same as "I'm sorry".

If she put out a sincere apology, I'd let her keep her job. Otherwise, no.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 15):
Yes, but there are times when if even it's entirely intended to be a joke, it flat out shouldn't be done.

   Also, when you try to defend something as being a joke, it helps to not say that the objective of the act in question was to be a douchebag.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 12):
And, no Mrs. Stone, it is not obvious to the millions who have seen this picture that you meant no disrespect.

   Clearly the intent of the photo was to at least feign disrespect.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4225 posts, RR: 12
Reply 30, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3749 times:

Was her action disrespectful? Sure.

Did she mean it to be? Probably not.

Does she deserve to get fired for it? Of course not.

Don't we keep getting reminded that these brave souls died for our freedom against tyranny etc etc. And what's the first thing society now does when anyone dares to criticise, or even merely appears to criticize them? We go all Nazi on them.

Irony - absolutely.

It's like this "poppy fascism" crap that goes on in the UK every year without fail.

An Irish footballer refused to wear the poppy (the army he was supposed to pay tribute to by wearing his poppy murdered 14 innocent people in his neighbourhood and countless others in his country). I think that is perfectly acceptable grounds for him to "not comply" - He has now received death threats for his non compliance with poppy fascism.

Do I agree with the actions of either of these two people? No - I would not have done the same things. Do I have to respect their right to say or do these things? Of course - we do live in a democracy after all.

[Edited 2012-11-21 20:46:15]


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User currently offlineronglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 626 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (2 years 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

I think the presence of a member of the "Old Guard" "walking the mat" actually detracts from the solemnity of the location and draws attention away from the Tomb towards a "performance".

There are always would-be visitors to "hallowed ground" who just don't get it and need to be either tuned up or turned away. It would be better if entrance of people into the area was monitored and controlled.

I know I'm contradicting myself, but I've done the Washington tour and the Vietnam Memorial was a far more poignant and moving experience for me.


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 32, posted (2 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3713 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 30):
Does she deserve to get fired for it? Of course not.


Truth be known, I don't think she needs to be fired, but, it's not up to me. It's the employer's prerogative to deal with the employee as the employer sees fit, so long as the employer remains within the law. If the employer feels she has done harm to the company name and termination is the only way to fix it, more power to the employer.

Let Mrs. Stone understand that actions have consequences and, even more importantly (whether we like it or not) perception is reality. If the general public perceives she was being disrespectful, then she was.

Quoting ronglimeng (Reply 31):
know I'm contradicting myself, but I've done the Washington tour and the Vietnam Memorial was a far more poignant and moving experience for me.


We were in D.C. this passed summer and I found the Korean War Memorial more moving than the Vietnam Memorial.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 33, posted (2 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3706 times:

Guys it's disrespectful at its greatest,......but seriously, she does have the 1st amendment....But I don't wanna sail into an argument about that


Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20336 posts, RR: 59
Reply 34, posted (2 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3696 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 33):
Guys it's disrespectful at its greatest,......but seriously, she does have the 1st amendment....But I don't wanna sail into an argument about that

Again, the 1st Amendment protects you from the gummint. It does not protect you from your employer.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 35, posted (2 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3696 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 34):
Again, the 1st Amendment protects you from the gummint. It does not protect you from your employer.

did not see your previous post   And yes she should be fired



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 36, posted (2 years 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3697 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 33):
but seriously, she does have the 1st amendment....

Seriously, she doesn't. See Reply 19 for why.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 37, posted (2 years 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Can she be fired for goofing off on a company trip ?

Absolutely.

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
Yes, but it isn't scandalous unless you're an American militarist. I can easily imagine some of the people whose family members rest in that cemetary brushing it off.

Indeed, we've had a vet post in this thread that he thought it wasn't a big deal.

Personally, I think she's.... a lot of things that would probably earn me a wrist-slap from the mods if I said them. Let's just say she's a spoiled brat who thinks anarchy is cool.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 10):
I don't get why people are so up in arms about this whole deal, especially the military types. You signed up to go fight, fight for one of the rights she is exercising. You don't get to pout when the rights you signed up to defend are exercised in such a way that you don't agree with it.

Actually, they DO get to pout... that is them exercising their freedom of speech. They fought for her right to make her statement, it does NOT mean they have to shut up when she does.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (2 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3589 times:

Fired.

I think the picture is funny.
Funny that in the way she is just so stupid. She is not disrespecting anything as a she is probably not smart enough to think like that. She was just making a stupid picture and now she is toast.

[Edited 2012-11-22 03:07:58]


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1936 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (2 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3564 times:
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Everyone keeps saying while she is on her company trip she is representing the company. While looking at the picture in question please tell me the name of the company she is supposedly representing. If she gets fired it is simply because she was convicted in the court of public opinion. No other reason. Should she have excercised better judgement certainly. SHould she be terminated no maybe a stern talking to but why take food off of someone's table for 1 stupid mistake.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (2 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

She has been fired. This was posted on her facebook for all to see along with the name of her company. It went viral and there were thousands speaking about it. The company really had no choice with all the publicity.

http://bostinno.com/2012/11/21/lindsey-stone-fired-for-facebook-photo/

[Edited 2012-11-22 03:12:51]


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 41, posted (2 years 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 39):
SHould she be terminated no maybe a stern talking to but why take food off of someone's table for 1 stupid mistake.


Because the employer felt that termination was what was required in order to placate the court of public opinion. Anyone notice that the person taking the picture was also terminated?

Sometimes 1 mistake is all it takes.

But, my guess is that the employer probably wanted her gone and this provided the appropriate cover.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3511 times:

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 13):

It's funny. No reason to fire her.

FYI I am a vet, served 6 years in the Navy.

Now if it would have been in front of a grave, thats a different story.

Seems to me, those who are screaming about this need to get a life. Nothing wrong with it. She is doing something humorous. People are taking this out of context, and making something out of nothing. You would be shocked at the number of times I have "disrespected" the Navy, the military, and the flag while on active duty. Get over it people.

I'm in the service now, going on 20 years.

The picture she took was so outrageous and ironic that it could only have been meant as a joke. If people could set aside their self-righteous 'need to be offended at something' for a second they might actually appreciate a little irreverent humor.

I have seen countless pictures of military members doing silly things...when I was a pup a bunch of us took a picture in our underwear in a particularly hallowed location. Hallowed is what made it funny!

Poor taste, sure. Not the best judgment, certainly. But all of this indignation is misplaced and says more about those who are offended than the silly woman who took this picture.

Quoting Mir (Reply 29):
Clearly the intent of the photo was to at least feign disrespect.

'Feign' being the key word.

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 30):
It's like this "poppy fascism" crap that goes on in the UK every year without fail.

Absolutely...we're in a strange place here in the US, post 9/11. It's fashionable now to be all 'overly solemn' with regard to Service members' sacrifices that people couldn't give the first shit about a handful of years ago.

If this lady had been deliberately mocking service members I'd be upset. In this case it's a young lady whose sense of the ridiculous got away from her and for me a genuine apology for her lack of judgment is more than enough.


User currently offlineadh214 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3445 times:

I don't understand why her employer is involved. In looking at the photo I have no idea who she works for. I just assumed she was another tourist. I have been on plenty of business trips but that does not mean I am on the clock 24 hours a day.

Imagine all of the "bad behavior" that occurs on business trips.... Strip clubs, affairs, prostitution....

Andrew


User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1412 posts, RR: 3
Reply 44, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3425 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):

Because the employer felt that termination was what was required in order to placate the court of public opinion.

And for this reason, if I ever had need for any of her employer's services, I would promptly consider doing said business elsewhere or not at all. If placating an angry and fickle mob (and let's be realistic, no one will be talking about this next week) is their only reason for this, then there's no reason they should be in business.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 41):
But, my guess is that the employer probably wanted her gone and this provided the appropriate cover.

This is quite also possible, however.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 42):

The picture she took was so outrageous and ironic that it could only have been meant as a joke. If people could set aside their self-righteous 'need to be offended at something' for a second they might actually appreciate a little irreverent humor.

Indeed. This fervence of this type of sanctimony exhibited by this incident is exceeded only by its absence of rational thought. Does anyone really even want to live in a place that takes itself this seriously?

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 42):
ut all of this indignation is misplaced and says more about those who are offended than the silly woman who took this picture.

Absolutely. It's either a case of us becoming insufferably humorless, or (and I don't know which would be worse) just that people are losing the ability to "get it" anymore. I'm sure I'm overstating this (I hope), but sometimes it's just straight painful how much we really need to lighten the hell up already.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 45, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 42):
In this case it's a young lady whose sense of the ridiculous got away from her and for me a genuine apology for her lack of judgment is more than enough.

I agree completely, but she hasn't given a genuine apology (as far as I'm aware). That does it for me.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 46, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
I agree completely, but she hasn't given a genuine apology (as far as I'm aware).

Check

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 40):

http://bostinno.com/2012/11/21/linds...hoto/
Quote:
On Tuesday, after the photo made national and local news headlines, Stone and her co-worker issued an apology, admitting what they did was wrong and saying they meant no harm by it.

The duo said:

We sincerely apologize for all the pain we have caused by posting the picture we took in Washington DC on Facebook. While posted on a public forum, the picture was intended only for our own amusement. We never meant any disrespect to any of the people nationwide who have served this country and defended our freedom so valiantly%u2026It was meant merely as a visual pun, intending to depict the exact opposite of what the sign said, and had absolutely nothing to do with the location it was taken or the people represented there. We never meant to cause any harm or disrespect to anyone, particularly our men and women in uniform. We realize it was in incredibly poor taste, and are deeply sorry for the offense we have caused.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 47, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3318 times:

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 40):
She has been fired. This was posted on her facebook for all to see along with the name of her company. It went viral and there were thousands speaking about it. The company really had no choice with all the publicity.

Well good riddance. Hopefully she learns a bit about respect before finding another job.



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 48, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 46):
Check

Eh, okay. I don't think they really needed to go into the whole "we were just making a visual pun" thing, but I'd accept that if I were their employer.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3274 times:

Not disrespectful really, she didn't do it in front of a grave. Besides in my opinion it's ridiculous to have military graveyards for any soldiers who fought after WW2. After WW2 no war US has fought has been fought for defense of the United States and thus no heroes were made in these wars. Soldiers today should be buried just like all other people do, without any nationalist rubbish.


"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 50, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 49):
Besides in my opinion it's ridiculous to have military graveyards for any soldiers who fought after WW2. After WW2 no war US has fought has been fought for defense of the United States and thus no heroes were made in these wars. Soldiers today should be buried just like all other people do, without any nationalist rubbish.

All honorably discharged veterans of the US military are entitled to military funeral honors, whether or not they served during wartime or in combat.


User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 51, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3202 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27):
Doesn't matter. Suppose one of your employees on his own time marched with a group like NAMBLA (a pro-pedophilia group).

Now, NAMBLA has every right to exist, although they do not have a right to actually "practice what they preach," but they do have the right to say that pedophilia should be legal.

I don't know about you, but on the clock or not, I'd fire such an employee.

I wouldn't, as I would hurt my credibility as an advocate for free speech (and that advocacy is - loosely - related to my line of work). Maybe, as free speech in my country still faces more impediments than in most western democracies, I tend to err on the side of caution.

That being said, I also do not find the photo all that disrespectful. Then again, I consider myself lucky for none of my family has died in a war since before the American War of Independence. (And considering they fought on the losing side in that, and in both World Wars, that is fortunate.) Would I feel differently if I had family there? I don't know. However, short of people digging up graves, I can't imagine too much that would upset me if they did it where my grandparents lie buried.



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 52, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3149 times:

Quoting adh214 (Reply 43):
I have been on plenty of business trips but that does not mean I am on the clock 24 hours a day.

As far as I know, this was not a businesss trip, but a company sponsered outing. That is different. In theory, she is 'on the clock'. Do you realize, that in some states, if she was injured on such an outing, it would be considered a workplace injury and she would be eligible for workmen's compensation?

Quoting Darksnowynight (Reply 44):
And for this reason, if I ever had need for any of her employer's services, I would promptly consider doing said business elsewhere or not at all.

And, that would be your choice. That's what this is about. Actions and reactions.

She does something stupid. There is a public outcry to this stupidity and the reaction is aimed at the employer. The employer decides to take action. The reaction is that the mob is placated or, in your case (and I assume others), you choose to not do business with the employer. Action and reaction, and the free exercise of those reactions to the action.

Actions have consequences.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 53, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 49):
Not disrespectful really, she didn't do it in front of a grave.

She did. That sign is in front of the tomb of the unknowns.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 49):
Soldiers today should be buried just like all other people do, without any nationalist rubbish.

Well they do that burial with honors in Finland too, according to my friend who lives there. What would u say if you fought for finland, died, and got thrown into the incinerator without any sort of honors for your sacrifice?



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineDarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1412 posts, RR: 3
Reply 54, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3128 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 53):
What would u say if you fought for finland, died, and got thrown into the incinerator without any sort of honors for your sacrifice?

Hopefully nothing. I don't know about you, but I'd be pretty uncomfortable with dead people speaking about anything.

Seriously though, what does it matter? They're dead. At that point, it's down to what their loved ones think, not them.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 52):

And, that would be your choice. That's what this is about. Actions and reactions.

Yup. This particular action was just not that well thought out. Her employee is at least as stupid as she is. They should have kept her; looks like a good match afterall.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6596 posts, RR: 35
Reply 55, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3118 times:
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I did not think she should have been fired in the first place. I said that she was rather lacking in judgement to do something at her actual work that would fire her eventually. But now that she is so in the spotlight--and fired-- how hard will it be for her to get a new job?

Should the consequences of making a bad joke mark you for life? Is this the real danger of social networking?


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 56, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 55):
But now that she is so in the spotlight--and fired-- how hard will it be for her to get a new job?

If she continues to be a self-described douchebag, it'll be almost impossible. But if she actually changes her ways, she'll get a second chance. Which is as it should be.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 8
Reply 57, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

A big deal about nothing, all would have been good but for one thing. She posted the picture for the world to see on facebook. I am ex military and have several pictures of me doing "stupid things" at various places around the world but they will never end up on line.

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2182 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

This is another example of why I do not have my employer listed on my FB page nor do I ever post anything about the happenings at work on FB. I have seen and heard of too many horror stories.

User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3680 posts, RR: 2
Reply 59, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

Quoting FlyDeltaJets (Reply 39):
for 1 stupid mistake

As my Grandpa used to say "Everybody makes mistakes, some just cost more than others"

Quoting adh214 (Reply 43):
Imagine all of the "bad behavior" that occurs on business trips.... Strip clubs, affairs, prostitution

But usually they don't show up on FB or YouTube.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinedl021 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 11447 posts, RR: 75
Reply 60, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
But to be fair the guards at Arlington are famous for reprimanding people for being noisy :

They're doing their duty on grounds that belong to the people of the United States and where they have authority to demand certain behaviour. If Congress has issues with that they can order the military and the National Parks Service to adjust the rules. Therefore, if the majority of US citizens demand it those rules will be adjusted. Other than that, they're doing their job by reprimanding people for being assmonkeys.

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
Yes, but it isn't scandalous unless you're an American militarist.

Not true or fair. You use the term militarist as some perjorative, and there are plenty of peaceloving people in the military, as well as many more peaceloving people who are shocked and offended at this persons behaviour. You are better than that assumption and statement, Amon.

Quoting aloges (Reply 3):
I can easily imagine some of the people whose family members rest in that cemetary brushing it off.

Not many did, or would. Most are shocked and dismayed by this womans behaviour. Certainly a few are. How would you feel if you had a family member die in combat defending your home and their grave was disturbed by a rude person looking for a cheap thrill?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):
the First Amendment does NOT mean that you have a right to do so without any repercussion whatsoever. Her employer would be perfectly within their right to fire her for such unprofessional behavior, especially while on a company-paid trip. Similarly, I can't walk up to my boss and call him some profanity and then expect the First Amendment to protect me from disciplinary action.

Absolutely correct. I defend her right to express herself. I support the rights of her employers to act according to their wishes in how they want to be represented publicly by employees on trips they're paying for. I wouldn't want this woman representing my company at all, and would have fired her just so my clients didn't think I condoned her activities. She's free to express herself. She just needs to deal with the consequences. Freedom isn't free and the exercise of liberty has consequences.



Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 61, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

Quoting tz757300 (Reply 11):
Now, THAT does open up something I really don't like, which is how the cemetery is now a major tourist attraction.

   I don't get why Arlington is a tourist attraction. It shouldn't be. That's not how the cemetery was created to begin with.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 62, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Quoting pvjin (Reply 49):
Besides in my opinion it's ridiculous to have military graveyards for any soldiers who fought after WW2. After WW2 no war US has fought has been fought for defense of the United States and thus no heroes were made in these wars. Soldiers today should be buried just like all other people do, without any nationalist rubbish.

Yep, we totally went into Afghanistan with the intention of confiscating their opium.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineRobertNL070 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 4534 posts, RR: 9
Reply 63, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2750 times:

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
Is This Really Disrespectful?  

Not really.

However it does show a lack of judgement and a lack of social skills. In other words: plain stupid.



Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2039 posts, RR: 6
Reply 64, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 61):

Why? It exists to honour the fallen and keeps their memories alive. People from all over the planet come to pay their respects.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13749 posts, RR: 61
Reply 65, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2608 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'm glad the little attention-whore got fired. Actions have consequences.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 37):
Personally, I think she's.... a lot of things that would probably earn me a wrist-slap from the mods if I said them. Let's just say she's a spoiled brat who thinks anarchy is cool.

So tell me...why were you defending the actions of that asshat who wore the "Terrists ZOMG" shirt on a DL flight to get a rise out of people yet call out this attention-whore for also trying to get a rise out of people?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinevarigb707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 66, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2568 times:

Quoting alberchico (Thread starter):
guards at Arlington are famous for reprimanding people for being noisy

People should be more respectful at Arlington National Cemetery and keep it quiet. And the lady shown on the picture should be reprimended.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 67, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 65):
So tell me...why were you defending the actions of that asshat who wore the "Terrists ZOMG" shirt on a DL flight to get a rise out of people yet call out this attention-whore for also trying to get a rise out of people?

Nice try. This has nothing to do with getting a rise out of people.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 68, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

So Lindsay Stone is/was a Social Worker? Maybe after a few years flipping burgers she'll wise up and get a clue as to how to act while visiting a place such as this ? ( I won't be holding my breath )

Do I think her employer did "the right thing"? I think her employer did the ONLY thing !

As usual, I think many people making comments regarding this photo did so without first reading the story about what was going on, or WHERE it was going on; this didn't "just" happen in Arlington National Cemetery, it happened right in front of the Tomb Of The Unknown's; which is THE single worst place in the whole U.S. to behave in such a stupid, disrespectful manner, ( and have ANY reasonable expectation of getting away with it. )

For those wondering, "what does this asinine behavior have to do with her employer"?.........Just this; She "was" employed as a "social worker", ( supposedly looking after and guiding people who are "mentally challenged", on this trip to Washington, D.C. ) After reading the whole story, it would appear that not only was her employer justified in terminating her, I think a hard ,cold "look" at whoever hired her in the first place is in order. ( A kind of "mentally challenged" leading the "mentally challenged" situations, as it were.)

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 69, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2445 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 68):
it happened right in front of the Tomb Of The Unknown

How do you know that? There are signs like that all over the cemetery itself.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 70, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 68):
I think a hard ,cold "look" at whoever hired her in the first place is in order. ( A kind of "mentally challenged" leading the "mentally challenged" situations, as it were.)

That's a hell of an assumption. She may have had decent qualifications for the post and presented well, and hitherto done her job well - people aren't all mind-readers. They can't always look deep into the future and see who precisely will have a serious lapse of judgement at some point, unless she has a history of doing this sort of thing, which I don't think there is any suggestion she did.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 71, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 69):
How do you know that? There are signs like that all over the cemetery itself.

From the article posted:

In the photo, Stone stands at the Tomb of the Unknown Solider next to a sign that reads "Silence and Respect," giving the middle finger and pretending to yell. She then posted the picture to her Facebook page.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2376 times:

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 42):
I'm in the service now, going on 20 years.

this seams to be the only logical post on this thread, all the rest sound like wannabe police.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 42):
sacrifices that people couldn't give the first shit about a handful of years ago.

it might be guilt? I used to travel through Atlanta on delta a lot and you'd see loads of army personal with horrific injuries. I, like most people, would think what a waste.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13749 posts, RR: 61
Reply 73, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2367 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 67):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 65):So tell me...why were you defending the actions of that asshat who wore the "Terrists ZOMG" shirt on a DL flight to get a rise out of people yet call out this attention-whore for also trying to get a rise out of people?
Nice try. This has nothing to do with getting a rise out of people.

You honestly believe her decision to engage in this behavior and then intentionally put this on Facebook wasn't based on her desire to show how clever she thought she was, just like the "Terrists ZOMG" idiot?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20336 posts, RR: 59
Reply 74, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2302 times:

I'm just going to throw this one out there:

When someone points a camera at you and your response is to flip the camera the bird, that hand gesture is immortalized forever. One day, that photo might come back to bite you in the arse, just like it did for this lady.

Now, lord knows I've exercised my extensor digitorum communis muscle plenty of times in my life, but I know better than to do it in front of a camera.


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5654 posts, RR: 15
Reply 75, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 74):
When someone points a camera at you and your response is to flip the camera the bird, that hand gesture is immortalized forever. One day, that photo might come back to bite you in the arse, just like it did for this lady.

Unlike the days in the past, where you could get a hold of the negatives, digital is forever...and modifiable.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 74):
extensor digitorum communis muscle

I do need to remeber those 4 words for future reference.

Hmm, I looked that up (because that's just the type of person I am) and it looks more like a tendon. Fascinating thing, the human body.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 76, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2232 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 73):
You honestly believe her decision to engage in this behavior and then intentionally put this on Facebook wasn't based on her desire to show how clever she thought she was

That's not what you said. You said they both did it "to get a rise out of people", and insinuated that I was a hypocrite for strongly defending one and not the other.

You can try to twist your words all you like, but the fact is that I believe both people had a right to do what they did without any government interference. The difference is that the "shirt guy" WAS harassed by government agents, while she wasn't. He was intentionally pointing out the fact that certain parts of our government act so far outside the Constitution that it deserves to be pointed out. He had a good reason for, in your opinion, being an "asshat".

This girl wasn't even trying to get a rise out of people, as she had NO intention of making the picture well-known. She was trying to be funny and failed miserably at it. Her "apology" was more of a statement of confusion as to how people could ever possibly get upset by it.

I would also like to remind you that nowhere have I said that she should've been fired or face other severe consequences.


I agreed with the actions of the "asshat" because he exposed a deep concern of mine. I don't agree with hers because she had no real idea of why she was doing what she was doing. Frankly, your insistence that I have to be a hardliner on all issues all the time is precisely why this country is in the mess it's in.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13749 posts, RR: 61
Reply 77, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2178 times:
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Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 76):
your insistence that I have to be a hardliner on all issues all the time

Never once did I say or even insinuate that. I was merely wondering why there was what I perceived to be inconsistency in your stances on what I believe are similar issues.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 78, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2166 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 77):
I was merely wondering why there was what I perceived to be inconsistency in your stances on what I believe are similar issues.

Then I hope my answer was to your satisfaction.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 79, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 69):
How do you know that? There are signs like that all over the cemetery itself.

I "know that" because I took the time and trouble to read about half a dozen articles in newspapers about it; (BTW.....if you've ever BEEN to the Tomb of The Unknowns, you can recognize it in the photo that got Miss Airhead in all the grief.)

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 70):
That's a hell of an assumption. She may have had decent qualifications for the post and presented well, and hitherto done her job well - people aren't all mind-readers. They can't always look deep into the future and see who precisely will have a serious lapse of judgement at some point, unless she has a history of doing this sort of thing, which I don't think there is any suggestion she did.

"She may have had decent qualifications for the post and presented well, and hitherto done her job well - people aren't all mind-readers. They can't always look deep into the future and see who" ??????????????

I'd say you were making a pretty big "assumption" when you said she "may have....." and I can agree with you about "people are not all mind readers"............but you went waaaaaaaaaaaay "out on a limb" ( and the limb broke off behind you ) when you typed that last sentence; obviously, one would hardly need to be a "mind reader" in order to ascertain the "qualifications", or the "suitability" of ANYONE applying for a positions of leadership or responsibility, after seeing said applicant acting in such a despicable manner, at the Tomb Of The Unknowns, ( which is, as far as I know, the ONLY place in the U.S.A. to have an entire unit of the United States Army, "guard" it, 24-7-365, from 110 degree sun, to 40 below zero weather ), and I might also point out, ( a fact which has been hither-to completely ignored in this whole discussion ), that those SOLDIERS who perform this task, are COMMITTED for life, to leading "model lives", and presenting an "impeccable example" for ALL to see. For LIFE.........( I wonder how many here would commit to ANYTHING "for life" ? )

But of course, we then have the IDIOTS among us...........the ones who insist not only on being fools, but also in "showing" everyone that they ARE fools...........and we also have that "other group"..........the ones who condone such behavior as being.........OK ? "free speech" ? "just having fun" ? "just stupid" ?

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 80, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

I think it is very unwise (very stupid, actually) but I support her right to do it, however, this is not something the government should be getting into, and that includes the government stopping the firing of her. The company, right or wrong, should be able to fire her.

Norms are set by society, and in 10 years we may be wondering what all this fuss is about, but stupidity has existed forever and she should have known better.

Whoever posted this on FB is a dick though. I forgot the details of the story, am listening to this video over and over ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT2LuREUTtE ) and am buzzed, so forgive me



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20336 posts, RR: 59
Reply 81, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2121 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 75):
Hmm, I looked that up (because that's just the type of person I am) and it looks more like a tendon. Fascinating thing, the human body.

There is both an extensor digitorum communis muscle and tendon. Most skeletal muscles have tendons (in fact, I can't think of an exception).

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 75):
Unlike the days in the past, where you could get a hold of the negatives, digital is forever.

Yup. Your Facebook post will probably last until the last power plant on Earth goes dead at the end of civilization. Of course, it will eventually get buried under an ever-growing pile of digital detritus, but it will always be there.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 82, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 80):
Norms are set by society, and in 10 years we may be wondering what all this fuss is about, but stupidity has existed forever and she should have known better.

Whoever posted this on FB is a dick though.

She posted it on Facebook (or perhaps it was her friend who took the photo).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineStarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 83, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2074 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 80):
I think it is very unwise (very stupid, actually) but I support her right to do it,


Yes, I support her right to do this as well, but......

Just because you have a right to do a thing, does not mean that you 'should' do a thing!! This is where judgement, morals, and personal responsibility kick in!!


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 84, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2031 times:

Quoting Starbuk7 (Reply 83):
Just because you have a right to do a thing, does not mean that you 'should' do a thing!! This is where judgement, morals, and personal responsibility kick in!!

Oh yes, I know. I noted that I supported the company's right to fire her for this (don't want this to turn into a 1st Amendment thing because I don't think it should apply to companies firing people for doing unprofessional things)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
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