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U.S. Citizens Abroad And Fatca  
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6746 times:

Deriving this topic from a near similar thread, lets discuss this here....

Should The US End Birthright Citizenship? (by AA7295 Nov 27 2012 in Non Aviation)

It seems like FATCA was drawn up and designed to make ex-pats of the U.S. like criminals.

On that thread, Dreadnought responded to my post:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 50):
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 49):

How is FATCA enforced in foreign countries that U.S. has no jurisdiction in?? I'm curious.

The US threatens the banks with retaliatory action, including confiscation and freezing of US assets. For major banks like UBS and HSBC, with assets all over the place, that is a real threat. It's blackmail, pure and simple.

For an American living overseas, it is now extremely difficult to find a bank who will take you as a customer - and in many countries, you simply can't live without a bank account. Your best bet is to go to a local private bank (IF they accept you - many simply don't want to do something illegal and at the same time don't want the bother of dealing with the IRS).

The Obama administration has turned all US expats into pariahs and treats them like criminals on the run.

Doesn't the European countries have a Credit Union type banks that are not covered by the FATCA rules? I still don't see how U.S. can strut it's stuff around, enforcing a law that has no jurisdiction in foreign countries abroad.

[Edited 2012-11-27 15:44:37]


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
106 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8824 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6719 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Thread starter):
Doesn't the European countries have a Credit Union type banks that are not covered by the FATCA rules?

All financial institutions (banks, investment managers, even insurance companies in certain) are covered by FATCA, regardless of local laws.

Until a few years ago, it would have been completely illegal under Swiss law for a Swiss bank to comply with FATCA. But under the deluded leadership of former President Micheline Calmy-Rey, the Swiss government caved in to US pressure and lifted those restrictions - essentially bank secrecy in Switzerland is a thing of the past thanks to this moron.

So while before Swiss banks could say, "We'd love to help but Swiss law does not allow us to divulge such information", now they no longer have that defense. And any bank or investment house has some assets in the US (even if it's only stocks or bonds), so they are exposed.

Remember - we are not talking about drug dealers and other criminals - Swiss law for many years allowed for their pursuit, and obligated banks to take reasonable steps to ensure their customers are not involved in illegal activity. We are talking about normal people.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6692 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Thread starter):
It seems like FATCA was drawn up and designed to make ex-pats of the U.S. like criminals.

You got that right. A lot of people think that expats are just getting inadvertently sideswiped by this, but I'm one of those who thinks they had this in their minds all along (the bill's sponsors -- not all the sheep who voted for it; they are totally clueless).

These folks think that anyone who has the temerity to move away from the US is a tax cheat and a traitor. It comes from a same mindset that years ago came up with things like "my country, right or wrong," and "America - - love it or leave it." It's a minority of people, but powerful beyond belief.

Dreadnought is right -- they are making global pariahs out of 7 million American expats, and turning a large bunch of potential ambassadors around the world into a mob of very angry malcontents -- and nobody wants to listen to them. The US media has virtually ignored this, with one or two exceptions at the NYT.

When Eduardo Saverin ditched his citizenship, he was called a tax cheat and a traitor by guys like Senator Carl Levin -- never mind that the guy paid millions to exit by the book. What Levin's attack completely covered up is the fact that Saverin ditched his US citizenship because of the pariah factor. He knows that as a US citizen, no other global entrepreneur will want him as a partner because it will expose them to a whole raft of IRS reporting requirements. That is intolerable. As a US citizen, Saverin would be on the outside looking in for the rest of his life. This should have been a wake-up call for Congress -- but it was completely ignored.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently onlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7394 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6659 times:

This is something Superfly is an expert on.

I think if a US citizen is doing business abroad and living abroad and already paying taxes abroad, he should be exempt from the same taxes in the US.



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User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8824 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6649 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
I think if a US citizen is doing business abroad and living abroad and already paying taxes abroad, he should be exempt from the same taxes in the US.

That's called Tax Territoriality, and it is something alien to the US government.

For example I am a Swiss American dual citizen. As long as I live in the US, I do not need to file or pay Swiss taxes. That's how all countries do it except the US. I think Libya under Qadafi had the same rule, but that is hardly a legitimizing factor.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15729 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6646 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
That's how all countries do it except the US. I think Libya under Qadafi had the same rule, but that is hardly a legitimizing factor.

I think the other country that does that is Eritrea or something.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
I think if a US citizen is doing business abroad and living abroad and already paying taxes abroad, he should be exempt from the same taxes in the US.

I think there is some sort of exemption, but either way, US tax laws on expats are ridiculous.

It needs to be seriously simplified: as long as there is income tax, if you earn here you pay here. If you earn elsewhere, you don't.



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User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6640 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
This is something Superfly is an expert on.

Where is S'Fly when we need the man?!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
As long as I live in the US, I do not need to file or pay Swiss taxes.

It should be like that everywhere. Going around, as the IRS, wrecking lives in the process is not the way to go. People are allowed to have a life, in peace. I don't think Congress thought about the ramifications before passing this law.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19500 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

Quoting Arrow (Reply 2):
Dreadnought is right -- they are making global pariahs out of 7 million American expats, and turning a large bunch of potential ambassadors around the world into a mob of very angry malcontents -- and nobody wants to listen to them. The US media has virtually ignored this, with one or two exceptions at the NYT.

And the problem is that it's unlikely that there will ever be anything done about it unless somehow a court manages to overturn the law.

After all, 7 million Americans out of 350 million aren't that many. Those 7 million Americans are worth how many representatives in congress? What, maybe 8? And they are all from different constituencies. So there is absolutely no political will to reform the system.

It's a real pity. I think the only solution is going to be some serious foreign pressure from multiple sides at once.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8824 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6623 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
I don't think Congress thought about the ramifications before passing this law.

Oh, but they did. Chuck Schumer and Dick Durbin have had a hard-on to go after expats for many years, and the day Obama came to power, with filibuster-proof Democratic majorities in the House and Senate, they finally had a chance to ram it through. FATCA was passed in March of 2009, only weeks after Obama arrived in the White House, as part of the famous "Jobs Bill".

By the way, something that was not mentioned - FATCA was retroactive. Foreign financial institutions had to provide an annual report of the account balance, receipts and withdrawals of the U.S. customers all the way back to 2003,



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21552 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6601 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Thread starter):
It seems like FATCA was drawn up and designed to make ex-pats of the U.S. like criminals.

No it wasn't, it was designed to prevent wealthy people from utilizing tax havens. But then it also caught a whole bunch of average people who were living abroad for non-tax reasons as well, and that's where the problems arose. It needs to be reworked at the very least.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
I think if a US citizen is doing business abroad and living abroad and already paying taxes abroad, he should be exempt from the same taxes in the US.

Certainly if he's already paid more taxes to wherever he's living than he would owe to the US.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 3978 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):

All financial institutions (banks, investment managers, even insurance companies in certain) are covered by FATCA, regardless of local laws.

Even more despicable, they can get into trouble even if they don't know you are a U.S. citizen! If you are a double citizen of the U.S. and another country, and open a bank account under your other nationality (even if that happens to be the same nationality as the bank), years later the IRS can come after you with a vengeance. So now every financial institution with any dealings in the U.S. must guarantee that ALL their customers everywhere in the world are NOT U.S. citizens. And remember, AML (Anti-Money Laundering laws) are the only laws in the criminal book in which the burden of proof does not reside with the State, but with the accused.

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):

Certainly if he's already paid more taxes to wherever he's living than he would owe to the US.

Why only if he is paying more taxes? Should NYC retirees who move to Florida keep paying NYC state taxes too? And how do you account for different types of taxes paid (e.g., lower income taxes with higher consumption and property taxes)? What about contributions to foreign retirement accounts? Why do you feel such a need to go after the income of your own citizens who live abroad? How would you feel if Eritrea started confiscating assets of U.S. companies that do not assist it in tracking down Eritreans living in the U.S.?



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User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6575 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6563 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Thread starter):
The Obama administration has turned all US expats into pariahs and treats them like criminals on the run.

Does anyone know how American overseas votes in 2012?

If you live elsewhere - should you be allowed to vote?



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User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8824 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6565 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 10):
And remember, AML (Anti-Money Laundering laws) are the only laws in the criminal book in which the burden of proof does not reside with the State, but with the accused.

And even better - I understand that the standing policy at the IRS, once the self-reporting deadline is past, if they believe you might have any undeclared funds since 2003, is to issue an international arrest warrant through Interpol. So you might be going through an airport in Japan, get picked up and hauled off.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):

For the record, that was Dreadnought's quote from another thread as that's not my quote.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6539 times:
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Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
No it wasn't, it was designed to prevent wealthy people from utilizing tax havens.

And here's the joke, although no one is laughing. One of the world's biggest tax havens is the US (it's number 5 on the list). There's about $14 trillion of foreign money invested in US banks, the majority of them in Florida. The investors are attracted by the fact that the US does not tax interest earned on this money, and the US guarantees confidentiality -- just like Switzerland used to do!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
It's a real pity. I think the only solution is going to be some serious foreign pressure from multiple sides at once.

Sadly, they are caving in and signing agreements with the US so they can comply with FATCA and avoid the wrath of the Treasury Department and it's threat to withhold 30% of all US-source financial transfers to any bank that doesn't sign up. There is one bright ray of hope, however. Most of the countries signing these agreements are demanding reciprocity -- I'll rat on your tax evaders if you rat on ours -- and the Treasury Department is agreeing to that. What that ultimately means is that while foreign banks have to collect data on Americans, American banks will have to do the same for every country that signs one of these agreements. Treasury has committed to get 50 of these in place by the end of the year -- so far they've inked about half a dozen. This will be a costly administrative nightmare for American banks -- and all the foreign banks I suspect are laughing up their sleeves.

And guess who is now screaming about that -- Florida, of course, because all that foreign money will suddenly disappear if the depositors think the US is going to rat them out with their home country's tax collectors. I think this is what will ultimately sink FATCA -- not any pressure from outside. There will be a huge flight of foreign capital from US banks as a result of reciprocity, and some of the politicians who voted for FATCA are starting to wake up to that.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39825 posts, RR: 74
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6535 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 6):
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
This is something Superfly is an expert on.

Where is S'Fly when we need the man?!

Thanks. I'm no expert but I've been following the issue closely. One week before this months election, the IRS kicked the can down the road to 2017 to enforce this law. Many countries have told Obama's IRS to f--k off.
This cumbersome some law is extremely difficult to enforce and many countries have not been able to get up to speed to comply with the foolish law by January 2013. In Thailand where I live, FATCA violates local Thai law as Thailand still respects banking privacy.
This FATCA issue will be an issue for the next administration to deal with.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13985 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6509 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):

After all, 7 million Americans out of 350 million aren't that many. Those 7 million Americans are worth how many representatives in congress? What, maybe 8? And they are all from different constituencies. So there is absolutely no political will to reform the system.

Most countries don´t like expats. In the Philippines they like the billions sent back every year by Filipino expats, but these people are not even allowed to vote in Filipino elections (unless they declare that they will return home permanently within the next three years) to decide how their money is being spent.
Often Filipinos staying at home look at the expats as cashcows and as traitors, who don´t stick it out at home.
For myself, when I returned to Germany after several years living and working in Ireland, my experience abroad was often not welcome. If I suggested some improvement at work to increase efficiency in a way I have seen abroad, I got told "We are not in Ireland, but in Germany and this is how we always did it.".
After the Berlin wall fell, many East Germans considered those who escaped earlier not as heroes, who risked their lives crossing the border, but as quitters, who went to the golden West to get rich instead of sticking it out at home.

Jan


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39825 posts, RR: 74
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6494 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):
Does anyone know how American overseas votes in 2012?

Expats are as diverse as those back at home. It depends on the expat. From my observation, the expats that are under the protection of the State Department and the United Nations lean left-wing. Those of us in the private sector working abroad lean right-wing.
The people I know working at the State Department and the United Nations often times don't know a damn thing about the country they reside in. Their bosses and co-workers are all Americans or other Westerners and their work environment is no different than working in the US.
Those of us in the private sector abroad have a better understanding of the country we live in. We don't have those protections and do not live in secluded gated communities abroad.
Most of the people I know that work at the State Department and the United Nations don't even like the countries they reside in. Therefore they have no interest in the local culture. For them it's just something to put on their resume, even though most of the work they do can be done back in the US.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineoffloaded From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6439 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):
If you live elsewhere - should you be allowed to vote?

Yes you should, because then at least you have a say in something that affects you.

Some time ago some bonehead floated a similar idea in the UK which would have potentially effected every expat Brit out there, like me. I live and work in Portugal, but after 15 yrs away my right to vote in UK elections is denied, despite being a relatively frequent visitor and still having plenty of family, friends, and business ties. If I had a house there that I rented out for example, I would be taxed on it. Most people I talk to are amazed that we actually lose our right to vote at all.



To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
User currently onlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8115 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6414 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
In Thailand where I live, FATCA violates local Thai law as Thailand still respects banking privacy.

FATCA violates Japanese privacy laws as well. There is a great deal of consternation about this law among people I know in the financial industry. American citizens who are married to Japanese nationals can simply transfer funds to their wife's account where they will be fully protected by the local family registration system. Under Japanese law, nobody can get access to this kind of information without the stamped personal seal of that individual.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
Those of us in the private sector abroad have a better understanding of the country we live in. We don't have those protections and do not live in secluded gated communities abroad.

Sage words sir.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8824 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6381 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 19):
FATCA violates Japanese privacy laws as well. There is a great deal of consternation about this law among people I know in the financial industry.

As far as I know, Japan is the only country that has given a firm middle finger to the IRS regarding FATCA.




Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently onlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7394 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6362 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 19):

FATCA violates Japanese privacy laws as well. There is a great deal of consternation about this law among people I know in the financial industry. American citizens who are married to Japanese nationals can simply transfer funds to their wife's account where they will be fully protected by the local family registration system. Under Japanese law, nobody can get access to this kind of information without the stamped personal seal of that individual.

Good to know for myself, but what about me, as a student, if I get a part-time job in Japan? What would I have to do there?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20):
As far as I know, Japan is the only country that has given a firm middle finger to the IRS regarding FATCA.

Many many times have they told the US IRS to f*** off. Good for them indeed



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3359 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6342 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
I think if a US citizen is doing business abroad and living abroad and already paying taxes abroad, he should be exempt from the same taxes in the US.

IIRC if you don't earn income in the US you don't have to pay on your foreign earnings but you have to essentially file a return saying you earned nothing. What is stinging a lot of ex-pats is that they don't file for several years and get hit with penalties for late filings that add up to a lot of money.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):
If you live elsewhere - should you be allowed to vote?

The difference is with voting is that you have earned that right through citizenship and many Americans living overseas do not have any intent to ditch their citizenship and perhaps they work for a multi-national who has requested they relocate to the country they now reside.

The difference with taxes is that they provide services that the ex-pat is unable to use overseas so why should they pay into a system that they aren't using. There is an argument that ex-pats should pay a small tax for services they use overseas such as consular services but those I would reckon are not very expensive and completely discretionary, furthermore it would be an absolute pain to enforce.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineHOMsAR From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6326 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 22):
The difference with taxes is that they provide services that the ex-pat is unable to use overseas so why should they pay into a system that they aren't using. There is an argument that ex-pats should pay a small tax for services they use overseas such as consular services but those I would reckon are not very expensive and completely discretionary, furthermore it would be an absolute pain to enforce.

One of the facts/duties of citizenship, regardless of whether you're living within the national borders or abroad, is that you have to pay taxes to fund things you aren't using.

For example, I don't have kids, but I pay taxes to my local school district.

This isn't really any different in that sense.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8824 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6323 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 22):
IIRC if you don't earn income in the US you don't have to pay on your foreign earnings but you have to essentially file a return saying you earned nothing.

No, you are exempt up to around $80K of income, but on anything more that you earn, you have to pay local taxes AND US taxes as well.

As many of you know, in many parts of the world $80K is not a whole lot of money.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
25 StarAC17 : True but if you do have kids and send them to public school you are then taking advantage of that service, you are entitled to use it. When outside o
26 Arrow : I'm pretty sure the Earned income exclusion is $94K -- but it is in US funds always. if you have an annual salary of (just for argument) 94k Swiss fra
27 Post contains images Superfly : More reasons why I LOVE Japan! I think Canada has put pressure on the IRS as well. It's been bumped up to about $95,000 per year but I hear what you'
28 StarAC17 : Will that be enough?? I have read some of your posts regarding your wife and even if you renounce your citizenship you still have to pay US taxes bec
29 mt99 : Cursed for being American. Man talk about having problems!
30 Dreadnought : Already happening. There were 235 renunciants in 2008, 743 in 2009, about 1485 in 2010, 1781 in 2011. I expect 2012 will keep growing. I know a coupl
31 mt99 : So when are you renouncing yours? Would love to hear the play by play.
32 Dreadnought : I am quite close to people who are doing so, so I'm hearing quite a lot of the play-by-play myself. Personally, I have to admit I am thinking hard ab
33 lewis : How true!
34 AirframeAS : Just making sure I understand this correctly..... Lets say I move to England, working for UA or AA (for example) at LHR, making $14.50 an hour full t
35 bjorn14 : But they only charge their expats 2% tax for a infrastructure fund to help rebuild the country after their war with Ethiopia. I remember good ol' Ted
36 AirframeAS : I was only using London as an example......
37 Dreadnought : Not entirely. First of all, FATCA applies to you no matter how much you make. If you open a bank account in the UK, or open any sort of financial acc
38 Post contains images bjorn14 : Sorry I forgot my
39 Darksnowynight : $14.50/hr is only $30,160/yr. $45 - 50 is between $21.63 & $24.03/hr. Roughly.
40 Superfly : As of August of 2012, the numbers had already surpassed all of 2011. Has nothing to do with your income level. It's up to the banks to decide if they
41 Mir : Because the point of the law is to stop people from going to tax havens. I have no problem with that, the problem I have with the law is that it's us
42 bjorn14 : It will never be scrapped because those 7 million American expats don't vote in any kind of bloc (geographic, ideological or othewise.) They are just
43 DocLightning : Shouldn't be a problem for most Americans abroad who live in countries with universal coverage.
44 Dreadnought : But those coverages might not satisfy all the requirements under Obamacare. Swiss universal coverage, for example, does not include psycho care, dent
45 RobertNL070 : I've been living and working in the Netherlands since 1987 and have dual British-Dutch nationality. I am also a frequent visitor to the UK and have f
46 Mir : If it starts affecting international trade the way people on this thread have claimed it will, Congress will take notice. -Mir
47 Arrow : FATCA will affect international trade big time -- and one of the true ironies in this legislation is that it will be the US that is most negatively af
48 StarAC17 : I would think not because if you are out of the US you are not likely utilizing health care in the US and thus and expat wouldn't have a need to carr
49 Pyrex : Are you a fluent German speaker or have you just been practicing saying "Papieren, bitten" over and over again? The East Germans also thought a perso
50 Post contains images AirframeAS : Ah, gotcha. Thanks. The one question is still now answered: How is this U.S. law enforced in other countries anyway? The U.S. has no jurisdiction in
51 Arrow : If FFIs (foreign financial institutions) don't sign up (or their respective countries don't sign IGAs) the IRS will take a 30% charge on all US-sourc
52 Darksnowynight : Only the first $250 of it. Considering the substantially larger refunds americans have been conditioned to expect, this really isn't a big deal. I ag
53 StarAC17 : From some of the posts I read regarding a law like this is that the US has lost a lot rationality of how they do things. How is somebody who leaves t
54 Post contains images Superfly : Of the amount of money held by expats overseas, I wonder how much of a dent it would make in closing the budget gap. I'd like to see a breakdown of h
55 bjorn14 : Like abortion? Acutally IIRC it's 38 days and then IIRC you'll be taxed like you lived there the whole year.
56 Pyrex : 7 million out of 300 million is around 2%... don't you know it is now acceptable to persecute whole segments of the population just as long as they a
57 Post contains images Superfly : ..,and see how a minor error of just being off by 3 days can cause you a world of hurt when dealing with the IRS. This is just disgusting! Perhaps th
58 Aaron747 : Not sure. Until the embassy sends me a letter, I'm kind of doing my own thing. Be forewarned though that as a student, under Japanese law both your o
59 Superfly : Do they even have part-time jobs for foreigners in Japan? It would be impossible for PHX787 to get a job as a coffeeshop barista or waitress in Japan
60 SmittyOne : The irony being how expensive (in terms of time and money) it is to draft, debate, pass, and then attempt to enforce a law like this.
61 bjorn14 : Yep. The krone has hit historic highs against the $ in my time here. I've asked my employer for some non-income benefits in leiu of raises.
62 Post contains images Superfly : The current government under Obama isn't interested in that and is willing to raise the debt ceiling AGAIN to just keep spending money. It may be dif
63 HOMsAR : The president does not pass laws in the United States.
64 Superfly : Semantics, whatever. The law passed because President Obama signed it in to law. FATCA had previously been submitted to President Bush in 2007 but he
65 Arrow : It's worse than that. If you thought you relinquished your US citizenship, say in the 1970s, by taking out citizenship in another country -- but negl
66 Dreadnought : That's right. The argument lawmakers give is that "You made your wealth because of the US government". The whole "You didn't build that" mentality (o
67 StarAC17 : I think you missed the point I was trying to get at which was that the days are ending when the US can exert global pressure on the world to fulfill
68 Arrow : Yeah -- that's the other part of it I forgot about. The net worth calculation is applied to all your global assets -- not just the US assets. So if a
69 Superfly : They're very well of that and are doing everything they can to grab as much power as possible before it's days are over. Not anymore. FATCA passed wh
70 Aaron747 : It's not impossible. A lot of Chinese and Korean university students here work part time in convenience stores and noodle shops. But that's only beca
71 Post contains images PHX787 : Because I am a man, not a woman I won't be a "waitRESS" because I have a schlong, unlike most waitresses in Japan. I say "most." I am going to alread
72 cws818 : Do you have anything to contribute besides Cold War hyperbole? Apparently not, since you have brought out the Hitler card - a sure way to eviscerate
73 BMI727 : There's nothing wrong with tax havens. If politicians don't like seeing capital move overseas, they would be better off looking at the reasons why th
74 PanHAM : What about double taxation, at least when the US has a double taxation agreement with the country a US citizen resides? A US expat living in Germany,
75 Dreadnought : Exactly. Capital flight is a warning flag to a country that they are squelching wealth and job creation.
76 PanHAM : Yes, but looking at the taxes Romney paid, the USA must be tax heaven. If I had that kind of money in the bank, I would gladly sell everything here an
77 Post contains images MD11Engineer : Why? Do you have any "experience"? Jan
78 Post contains links and images Aaron747 : You can ask them to clarify the procedure, but basically you will need to obtain the actual permission in Japan via application to immigration direct
79 Post contains images Superfly : Compared to Germany, yes the US is a tax haven but at least Germany does better job at providing services for it's citizens. Amen to that! Those earn
80 Post contains images PHX787 : From seeing this...that's my excuse MD11Engineer Aaron747- I hope this doesn't become a new thing.....we don't need a huge wave of kathoey's in Japan
81 Superfly : I was making a reference to the popular lingerie wearing baristas in Japan.
82 BMI727 : I forget exactly how it works, but I think there is some sort of deduction or exemption, either income to a certain level or taxes paid in another co
83 bjorn14 : You will file a tax return just as if you were in the US by April 15th.
84 Mir : They definitely should be. So in other words, the real problem is that the US government isn't as effective and efficient as the German government. T
85 Post contains images Superfly : Exactly! We're seeing eye to eye on this one.
86 bjorn14 : Then again why should you pay for something that doesn't work?
87 Post contains links SmokinL1011 : There's a lot of conjecture and hysteria surrounding this whole issue. If you look up the facts it is pretty straight forward and not everyone living
88 Dreadnought : Form 8938 is not the issue here. In fact I was not even aware of it. By the way, the threshold is very easy to reach if you have some sort of pension
89 SmokinL1011 : I agree with the stupidity of it all, but some above have asked questions about filing and others may see this thread who were never aware they have t
90 Post contains links Arrow : There is indeed a lot of hysteria -- the more you know about it, the more hysterical you get. It is by no means straightforward, and most US expats w
91 Dreadnought : And let's not forget the little issue of the 4th Amendment here. Unless the government can show probable cause to a judge, who authorizes a search wa
92 Post contains links Arrow : It took a long time, but the Canadian Civil Liberties Association finally weighed in on this -- letter sent to Canadian Finance Minister today. I wou
93 bjorn14 : I hope you're right but I don't share your optimism.
94 Superfly : Thanks for the links Arrow. Scary stuff indeed! The Supreme Court has let us down before, they can easily do it again.
95 Mir : If you're of the mindset that the US government cannot be made more efficient, then you probably shouldn't. But that's a pretty pessimistic mindset.
96 Aesma : It wasn't just US pressure on Switzerland, and it wasn't mainly about that US law that is pretty unique. Switzerland is a real tax haven and that's w
97 Post contains links Dreadnought : Countries with a capital flight problem have a problem with excessive taxation. The problem is not Switzerland. If your government did not go apeshit
98 Arrow : An early Christmas present. My wife got her CLN (Certificate of Lost Nationality) today, only 9 months after she first applied for it. Having left the
99 Aesma : Well, most people do pay their taxes without trying to cheat. For some people there will always be excessive taxation, we won't enter a race to the bo
100 FlyDeltaJets : No The law wasn't designed for that. It may have been designed poorly but not as poorly as we may have been lead to believe. The only thing this law
101 Arrow : Then you haven't read enough. Cruise through the ACA (American Citizens Abroad) website and see if you can get a sense of why expats are so outraged.
102 Superfly : You're missing the point. Expats have always been required to file regardless of income. The problem FATCA creates is it shifts the burden to the ban
103 Pyrex : Not necessarily. In many countries, the employer contribution to Social Security (which is effectively a hidden tax on the employee itself) is very h
104 AirOne : Hi All- Interesting topic as I am now an expat in London after doing the past year or so in Ireland. As part of my contract (as sometimes standard for
105 Superfly : Do you have a bank account in the UK? If not, you will not be effected by this. Even if you did, I'm pretty sure the UK would go along as they have d
106 Arrow : You've got most of it right, but there are dozens of little hidden land mines waiting to be stepped on and the IRS penalties for mistakes make the ga
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