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Plain Packaging Of Tobacco  
User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2059 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2690 times:

In a world first, from today all tobacco products sold in Australia must now come in plain packaging. The packs have graphic pictures, with warnings covering 75% of the a cigarette pack, the rest is a dark green with a uniform font saying the brand and variation and on the side showing the manufacturer and their address. There is no branding on individual cigarettes at all, only a number.

This was rather controversial, with a failed High Court challenge on the argument that Commonwealth is essentially acquiring intellectual property on unjust terms, one of our few constitutional rights.

Personally I do not like them at all, I think it is unreasonable to do it however I can see it being pretty effective, possibly more so than raising the tax on them but this is one of the first things I've ever seen that has made smokers rather angry. I'm presently shopping around for a cigarette case though that I can keep any of my smokes in to avoid having to carry the garish pack. I never consume more than a handful a day anyway so can just refill at home.

My opinion appears to largely echo that of most of the people I know who smoke.



Seems that other countries are looking into it too, wouldn't surprise me if parts of Europe along with Canada and New Zealand implement it.

What say you, smokers and non-smokers.

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRobertNL070 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 4529 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

It will probably not help to stop many smokers from smoking - all the smokers I know are pretty thick-skinned with their heads firmly planted in the sand. Furthermore many Dutch smokers are convinced of their God-given right to smoke if they damn well want to.

However, hopefully it will help prevent teenagers from picking up the habit.



Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2667 times:

Some of the news reports that I have read suggest that smokers claim that cigarettes sold in plain packs "taste different".

Quote:
Cancer Council Victoria chief executive, Todd Harper, says studies also show smokers appear to perceive the taste of plain-packaged cigarettes to be worse than branded cigarettes.

"I think this gives some clues as to why the tobacco industry has been so desperate and so committed to spending money, doing whatever it takes, to block plain packaging," he said.

"They know the impact it will have on people's perception of smoking and also the taste of smoking."

Some retailers also say they are getting similar complaints about the taste.

Quote:
Smokers are complaining cigarettes taste different in plain packets, tobacconists say.

An employee at Free Choice Beechboro, AK Aldhalimi, said 40 per cent of customers believed the flavour had changed for the worse.

The tobacco companies have responded by saying that they haven't changed the product in any way. What has been your experience? Is this autosuggestion on the part of those smokers? If so, is it likely to lead any of them to quit or will they just grumble about something that may not be true.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6630 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

Easy solution buy a cigarette case. Pretty sure these will become vary popular in Australia.



User currently offlinemelpax From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 1561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

Think there's going to be a lot more people using cigarette cases...

Interesting editorial from The Age, no more posh packaging for upmarket brands like Dunhill, Benson & Hedges, etc.... There are already moves to ban smoking entirely from pubs, bars & resturants, at the moment smoking is still permitted in outdoor areas.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/edi...ckaging-begins-20121129-2aio5.html



Essendon - Whatever it takes......
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12878 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2654 times:

Working as a paralegal and involved in trademark, 'trade dress' and tobacco litigation matters for a number of years, this policy of Australia may not last the most likley massive money of the tobacco co's with legal challenges and presents unintended affects. One argument can be made that banning the use of trademarks, logos, packaging colors and graphics ('trade dress') may violate a number of international trademark and trade agreements. It also means the governments who make significant tax revenues are still addicted to that even worse than nicotine will do anything to try to keep product moving but try to gradually withdraw and not put in prohibition which can lead to it's own problems. There is also a limit how much you can tax such products and if push too much, then you get bootleg and untaxed cigarettes brought in illegally.

Some company in China can and most likely can make some bootleg or even tobacco company authorized cover sleeves to put over cigarette packs with the logos like regular packs. The use of graphic images dulls out after awhile, so what do you do next ? Unintended, the graphic images could become a badge of defiance for especially young tobacco users. Do you put in such a policy for alcoholic beverages to curb the terrible medical costs, injuries and deaths from it's abuse that exceeds tobacco short and long term ?

Better would be to keep up social pressures to discourage and educate especially children about the use of tobacco, make cigarettes not available at every convenience store with limited numbers of licenses, maintain high, but not too high taxes, ban product websites, no more marketing or eliminating business deductions for cigarette marketing and distribution costs.


User currently offlinemelpax From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 1561 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 5):

The tobacco companies tried to use that defence when they tried to challenge the law in the High Court. Which was unsucessful.

Also, there is no more branding allowed any more - the brand & type of the cigarette must be the font set down by law, the packs on sale now are excacly in the same style & font as what's in the photo of the original post.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYbRumBfMpU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNnyLi5qLBs



Essendon - Whatever it takes......
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6100 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2634 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 5):
Do you put in such a policy for alcoholic beverages to curb the terrible medical costs, injuries and deaths from it's abuse that exceeds tobacco short and long term ?

You can consume alcohol without it having any significant consequences.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3829 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2613 times:

I don't smoke.

My parents don't smoke.

My wife doesn't smoke.

One of my grandfathers died from lung cancer - however, the doctors say that was from him working at ICI and not his smoking habit.

I think the defacto-criminalisation of a segment of society is disgusting - the government won't make smoking actually illegal, but they will take every effort to ostracise smokers, and that's wrong.

Why won't the government ban smoking outright? Because it still brings in Billions of GBP in revenue, above and beyond costs to the NHS.

Cost to NHS in 2011 - £6Billion.

Revenues from tax receipts in 2011 - £9.5Billion.

Over the past decade, costs to the NHS has never exceeded tax receipts, and there has never been a year-on-year drop of any significance of those tax receipts either...


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6100 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2606 times:

Well cost to the health care system is one thing, cost to society is another. How many productive lives lost, how many families in distress, kids with no father/mother, etc.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3829 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 9):

And that's something for the individual to consider - not something for the government to impose.


User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

Quoting QFA380 (Thread starter):
What say you, smokers and non-smokers.

I don't really care, as long as I can still buy my usual brand. I don't care about the packaging. If this comes to Euroope or Canada, it won't change my life.



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

Quoting melpax (Reply 4):
There are already moves to ban smoking entirely from pubs, bars & resturants, at the moment smoking is still permitted in outdoor areas.

This would be incredible. Most pubs force you go to out on the street anyway, its only really large RSLs and the like that have designated smoking areas anyway, tiny little balconies packed with people.

Quoting moo (Reply 8):
I think the defacto-criminalisation of a segment of society is disgusting - the government won't make smoking actually illegal, but they will take every effort to ostracise smokers, and that's wrong.

I agree wholeheartedly, its a shame no one dares speak up, this legislation and most other anti-smokers legislation have passed unanimously.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 11):
I don't really care, as long as I can still buy my usual brand. I don't care about the packaging.

Depends I guess how you view smoking, personally it is a pleasurable experience beyond the taste of the tobacco and the nicotine and the branding is part of that otherwise everyone would only use e-cigarettes. Same reason why I'm sure driving a Ferrari shaped like a Fiat, in white with no badges probably wouldn't be the same, sure it goes just as fast and handles just as well but the overall package is not the same.
Life's no fun is you devolve everything to its most basic and existential parts.


User currently onlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2915 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Interesting how most nations at least have a warning--"Smoking Kills"--and now some have the plain packaging. In the US, there is nothing of the sort... However, I fail to see what it actually does. I don't smoke, and I don't intend to. Packaging won't change that. Smokers know the effects, but they choose to do it anyway.


The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

Quoting QFA380 (Thread starter):
I'm presently shopping around for a cigarette case though that I can keep any of my smokes in to avoid having to carry the garish pack

Apparently, a lot of people are. That business is currently booming.

Quoting QFA380 (Thread starter):
I never consume more than a handful a day anyway so can just refill at home.

You shouldn't smoke in the first place.

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 1):
However, hopefully it will help prevent teenagers from picking up the habit.

That is the main point.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 5):
this policy of Australia may not last the most likley massive money of the tobacco co's with legal challenges and presents unintended affects.

The only challenge left are the transparent WTO charges filed by actually uninterested countries.

Quoting moo (Reply 10):
And that's something for the individual to consider - not something for the government to impose.

1) Smoking doesn't just affect the smoker.

2) The government isn't imposing an outright ban on cigarettes. People can smoke all they want. As long as they aren't in places where they can harm others, and as long as they can stomach looking at what smoking does to them and others.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2646 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2470 times:
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Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
That is the main point.

It may be the main point but as someone who swore when they were little they wouldn't use tobacco it isn't going to work.

I think the whole thing is silly. I see where the government is coming from but I really don't see it making a huge difference. This day in age everybody knows tobacco is bad for them. Posting these pictures on the box doesn't change it. It wouldn't stop me from buying my dipping tobacco. Some teens are still going to be rebellious and use tobacco no matter what. If anything I can see this making it worse. Kids are going to be running around saying, "Yeah I see the effect on the box, but I'm not afraid." It sounds unlikely but as someone who is surrounded by kids who are free from their folks for the first time, it is how it works. Though I do find it funny when I see some of these students "smoking." They never seem to inhale the smoke, some even just light the cigarette and walk down the street with it between their fingers! What a waste of money!
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 15):
It may be the main point but as someone who swore when they were little they wouldn't use tobacco it isn't going to work.

Actually, there is some decent evidence that the disturbing images on tobacco packages have deterred young people from smoking. There is clear evidence that people almost universally won't smoke if they don't pick it up before 26.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
1) Smoking doesn't just affect the smoker.

  
It also affects the resale value of a car if a smoker owned it.

Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 1):
all the smokers I know are pretty thick-skinned with their heads firmly planted in the sand.

Very true. It's the same thing with smokers I know. This is a habit I simply do not understand.
Mainly because it stinks so bad!   

Quoting melpax (Reply 4):
Think there's going to be a lot more people using cigarette cases...

I wonder if the cigarette brands will start selling cases with their brand names on them.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12028 posts, RR: 47
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2380 times:
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Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
I wonder if the cigarette brands will start selling cases with their brand names on them.

I imagine that would be covered by the ban on advertising.



Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

I'm guessing the tobacco companies are pretty much willing to let these governments do whatever they want (raises taxes, modify packaging, ...) without much of a fight.

Developed countries are almost all taking a tougher and tougher stance on tobacco products, but that's not where the future market lies for these companies. The market growth is already pretty poor.

They're more than happy to concentrate their marketing and investment efforts in developing countries instead, especially China and the Asian region as well as Russia and South America, where governments are also much less likely to impose such restrictive measures to tobacco products.

I still think it's a good thing to try and dissuade the young from picking up the habit. Many who do regret it afterwards, at some point. Either when they try to quit or when the diseases strike.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3829 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2306 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
1) Smoking doesn't just affect the smoker.

And those others can leave the vicinity of the smoker.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
2) The government isn't imposing an outright ban on cigarettes.

Thats convenient - by doing everything but, it allows people to claim it isn't being banned, just made incredibly difficult to do freely...

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
People can smoke all they want. As long as they aren't in places where they can harm others, and as long as they can stomach looking at what smoking does to them and others.

And this is what free society boils down to these days, it would seem. "You can do what you want. So long as ... ".


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 18):
I imagine that would be covered by the ban on advertising.

If they're clever, they'd indicate that they're advertising 'covers' that can be used for multiple things other than cigarettes.

Quoting moo (Reply 20):
And those others can leave the vicinity of the smoker.

Or maybe the smoker should leave the vicinity so the rest of us don't smell your dirty habit.

Quoting moo (Reply 20):
just made incredibly difficult to do freely...

...and it shouldn't be able to do freely. Keep that dirty habit inside your house.

I understand that cigarettes are more addictive than crack and is a hard habit to break. If I were a smoker, I'd be ashamed because it really does stink. I could careless about what people do to their lungs, it's the smell that bothers me.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26196 posts, RR: 76
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2271 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
It also affects the resale value of a car if a smoker owned it.

Very true.

Quoting moo (Reply 20):
And those others can leave the vicinity of the smoker.

One can leave the vicinity of a man brandishing a gun. Assuming you don't get shot, you have still been assaulted. Smoking around someone would be considered legal battery if smoking itself wasn't legal.

Quoting moo (Reply 20):
And this is what free society boils down to these days, it would seem. "You can do what you want. So long as ... ".

Actually, that has always been free society. Do what you want, so long as you aren't hurting others.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
I could careless about what people do to their lungs, it's the smell that bothers me.

I care what those people do with my lungs and the lungs of others.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12028 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2266 times:
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Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
If they're clever, they'd indicate that they're advertising 'covers' that can be used for multiple things other than cigarettes.

But that's the point - they're not allowed to advertise. Cigarettes or not, no advertising is allowed (in Europe at least).



Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 20):
And those others can leave the vicinity of the smoker.

That would work out well in an office, every time someone wants to light up more than half the office walks out. It is also a tad difficult to leave a commercial passenger aircraft at 39,000 ft.

Quoting moo (Reply 20):
"You can do what you want. So long as ... ".

You can have sex as often as you like, so long as you don't rape someone or fiddle with children. You can write whatever you like as long as you don't forge a cheque.

All societies have laws that restrict actions that harm others. I don't see why you would have a problem with that.


25 Post contains images Superfly : If someone is smoking a joint around me and they don't share then they're being stingy.
26 Post contains images zkojq : Non-smoker here and I'm fully supportive of it. Anything that helps to detract from the dirty habit is good in my view. Congratulations to the Austra
27 Aesma : Well I was also considering indirect dollar costs, not just human. There is more to it than just medical bills. The society at large is negatively im
28 mariner : Nowadays. When I was twenty several doctors refused to treat me (for anything) because I am homosexual. None of those same doctors gave a stuff if I
29 mdsh00 : I say it's a good start, anything that can be done to get rid of those damn cancer sticks. Right because smokers are so cognizant and respectful of th
30 Post contains images TheCommodore : Me Too ! Anything, that in any way, makes it difficult for cigarette companies and their customers, should be undertaken. Its a ridiculous habit, to
31 mariner : Then I would look for another doctor. Happily, I've found most doctors more reasonable about this than you appear to be. mariner
32 Post contains images ozglobal : I as a non-smoker very much enjoy to be on the outside terrace of cafes, bars and restaurants. I find that my enjoyment of the summer weather is usua
33 Post contains links David L : Won't somebody please think of the birds (the avian variety)... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-20607413
34 lewis : Which birds are those? Can we replace the disgusting pigeons we have in the cities with those birds? Sounds like a win-win situation to me!
35 JAGflyer : Does Australia still sell packs of 40 cigarettes? I remember seeing a photo of a 40 pack and thinking "wow, that looks like something you'd see on a h
36 melpax : Yep, they still sell packs of 40, but it's usually the 'budget' brands though, you can't buy a 40 pack of Marlboro or Dunhill....
37 moo : I have never smoked, so its not my "dirty" habit. I could say that for a hell of a lot of things as well, for example cycling on paths or driving in
38 OzGlobal : Perhaps you would have asked blacks in the South of US in the 50's the same should they have tried to enter a cafe or bar? I live in France and ALL c
39 Post contains images lewis : Nobody is stopping you from going there, there is no connection to the segregation in the south. If the cafe owner feels like his business is hurting
40 mdsh00 : I don't actually demean or patronize my smoker patients, just remind them on every visit about the harm and that they should stop and show them some
41 thegreatRDU : There is a state in Australia (Tasmania?) That will continue to raise the smoking age every year for those born after a certain year and over time ren
42 mariner : The constant reminder is a form of patronisation. Nothing drives me crazier - or more rebellious - when some nurse who doesn't know me snarls "You sm
43 lewis : I see your point and such decisions to move smokers away from entrances is correct, few will argue with that. I have no issue moving further away whe
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