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Syria To Deploy Sarin Gas - News Article  
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Posted (1 year 8 months 7 hours ago) and read 3417 times:

Not from Fox, mind you.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/12/syria-chemical-weapons-3/

Looks like the Assad regime is going to use this gas against their own people, as a US official reported that they are making final preparations in combining the binaries for its use.

This is bad, this is real bad. Not only is this crap dangerous for people, it has huge environmental aftereffects.

This war has gone completely out of hand.


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 7 hours ago) and read 3411 times:

Obama has drawn a "red line" saying that they don't want to see the Syrians move or use the chemicals, whether that means retaliation of some sort or something else I guess will have to be seen.


"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6146 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 7 hours ago) and read 3388 times:
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Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 1):
Obama has drawn a "red line" saying that they don't want to see the Syrians move or use the chemicals

Not only Obama. Erdogan has too. And HE has a much more practical concern, as the Sarin can seep into the bordering towns. If the Syrians do this, it´ll be the end of Assad. For sure.



MGGS
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6539 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

Even before this French president Hollande was already talking about changing the EU policy of not delivering arms to the rebels. I'm guessing we'll see more SAMs being used soon.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2769 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 3347 times:
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Cue US intervention in 3,2,1... Assad is an insane leader. I can't understand how he can get away with what he is doing and nobody is intervening like in Libya. This isn't going to be pretty. Hopefully he isn't dumb enough to use the weapons but I wouldn't put it past him judging by past history.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3341 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 4):
Cue US intervention in 3,2,1...

As much as we don't like it anymore, I almost find it inevitable.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 4):
This isn't going to be pretty. Hopefully he isn't dumb enough to use the weapons but I wouldn't put it past him judging by past history.

Exactly. I highly doubt that him actually listening to the barking from the west is actually going to do anything either. It's an impending bloodbath

Quoting Aesma (Reply 3):
Even before this French president Hollande was already talking about changing the EU policy of not delivering arms to the rebels. I'm guessing we'll see more SAMs being used soon.

I wonder if Europe/NATO will actually do something along the lines of intervention as well....



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19419 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3314 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 4):

Cue US intervention in 3,2,1... Assad is an insane leader.

But can he be so insane as to think that this action won't bring the UN (and with it the USA) down on his head? Is it possible to be that dense?

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):
Exactly. I highly doubt that him actually listening to the barking from the west is actually going to do anything either. It's an impending bloodbath

Well, he's in an awful position, really. He can't possibly win, but he's desperate. If he uses the weapons, he could stop the rebellion and risk the US's wrath. If he doesn't use them, he loses the country. I don't envy him his dilemma. Mind you, I don't pity him, either; it's his mess.

This would truly be a move of desperation.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4510 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Looks like the Assad regime is going to use this gas against their own people, as a US official reported that they are making final preparations in combining the binaries for its use.

According to the article, the binaries have been combined. This is PC for they have nerve gas.
This is serious. Especially if you don't trust Assad. this is a Defcon 4 type of moment.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 5):

I wonder if Europe/NATO will actually do something along the lines of intervention as well....

It is hard to say, but the fact that Turkey has been affected by this, and Israel may get affected, I think all eyes are on the situation.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3310 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Well, he's in an awful position, really. He can't possibly win, but he's desperate. If he uses the weapons, he could stop the rebellion and risk the US's wrath. If he doesn't use them, he loses the country. I don't envy him his dilemma. Mind you, I don't pity him, either; it's his mess.

If he is sincerely thinking of using these, he may not be thinking about the US intervention part, or may be stupid enough to think that he can actually beat our military.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4510 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3310 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
But can he be so insane as to think that this action won't bring the UN (and with it the USA) down on his head? Is it possible to be that dense?

Yet look at what he has been able to get away with....
Without serious personal repercussion.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
This would truly be a move of desperation.

Desperation rarely yields the best decisions for those making them and those affected by them.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineiFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
But can he be so insane as to think that this action won't bring the UN (and with it the USA) down on his head? Is it possible to be that dense?

To quote House: "Huuuuuhhh??"
Yes, he has gone to war with his own people, called for air strikes on them, and even if he doesn't end up using the chemical weapons he is still threatening to use them, and on top of all this, according to him they are defending themselves against armed gangs and terrorists.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 7):
It is hard to say, but the fact that Turkey has been affected by this, and Israel may get affected, I think all eyes are on the situation.

Israel has been affected, it just happened around the same time all the stuff in Gaza started so it didn't make the news.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...-11e2-8a5c-473797be602c_story.html

I see any intervention being joint NATO-Israeli.

[Edited 2012-12-03 21:34:11]


"...stay hungry, stay foolish" -Steve Jobs
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4510 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 5 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

Quoting iFlyLOTs (Reply 10):

Israel has been affected, it just happened around the same time all the stuff in Gaza started so it didn't make the news.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...-11e2-8a5c-473797be602c_story.html

I see any intervention being joint NATO-Israeli.

These were not quite as serious as the Hamas rockets or the Turkish villiages, however Israel has serious skin in the game. Especially when you remember 1991 and Iraq's Scuds.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7146 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 3239 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 4):
Cue US intervention in 3,2,1

I don't think the US should get involved, the Turks are more than capable enough to sort this out with assistance from the UN.

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 4):
I can't understand how he can get away with what he is doing and nobody is intervening like in Libya.

Libya has oil, Syria has nothing the West wants, fairly easy to understand, like the crap that's been happening in Zimbabwe for the last 10/15 years nobody's doing anything because they don't have anything we want or need.


User currently offlineHywel From Uganda, joined Apr 2008, 801 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months ago) and read 3192 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 4):
I can't understand how he can get away with what he is doing and nobody is intervening like in Libya.

Two simple reasons. Syria doesn't have major oil supplies like Libya. And also the USA doesn't want to mess with Russia.


User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1221 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3177 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
Libya has oil, Syria has nothing the West wants, fairly easy to understand, like the crap that's been happening in Zimbabwe for the last 10/15 years nobody's doing anything because they don't have anything we want or need.

Yeah, this is the sad truth. Or if we go a bit further back in history think about Rwandan genocide, nobody did anything as Rwanda has not that much oil or other important resources.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3167 times:

Quoting Hywel (Reply 13):
And also the USA doesn't want to mess with Russia.

It's not just Russia: China also has major interests in Syria that it would see as being threatened by a Western intervention. The UN can not act because both Russia and China have used their vetoes in the Security Council, blocking moves to bring about regime change.

Russia has its only Mediterranean base in Syria and large commercial interests, not only selling arms but having previously invested heavily in manufacturing and tourism. However, in 2011 China outstripped Russia as Syria's main trading partner. Exports totalling over $2.4 billion included communications, electronic equipment, heavy machinery and other goods.

China has large stakes in Syria’s oil industry. While Syria may not be a major producer by world standards, oil is important to its economy, generating about 25% of Government revenue. In 2010 Syria produced about 385,000bpd.

The state-owned China National Petroleum Corporation holds shares in two of Syria’s largest oil firms and has signed multi-million dollar deals to assist in exploration and development activities. Another Chinese firm, Sinochem, owns a 50 percent stake in one of Syria’s largest oil fields. Prior to the EU imposing sanctions, 32% of oil exports headed to Germany with Italy taking 31%, France 11%, Netherlands 11%, Austria 7% and Spain 5%. As those countries left the market, China stepped in, possibly benefiting from lower prices consequent upon less competition.

It will require a lot of sweet talking to persuade Russia and China that any regime change in Syria is not simply going to leave them out in the cold. However, if it looks as if Assad is about to be swept aside, they may well wish to come to some arrangement with whoever seems likely to emerge as the stronger internal actor.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1150 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

The presence of Chemical Weapons in Syria is hardly news. I'm sure the UN, NATO and Turkey all have plans for if Assad does actually use them. The possibility of him doing so has been on the cards for more than a year.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Well, he's in an awful position, really. He can't possibly win,

If the worst comes to the worst, he can always pick up the phone to Putin and arrange a more than comfortable retirement for him and the family in Russia. Such arrangements have worked for countless autocrats in the past..



Someone repaint ZK-PBG!
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3081 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 16):
The presence of Chemical Weapons in Syria is hardly news.

I am extremely cautious of what the main stream media are saying in this context.

Rebels forming unit to secure chemical weapons site – Telegraph

The opposition Free Syrian Army is creating a special unit of men trained to secure Syria’s chemical weapons sites, a former general in the country’s chemical and biological weapons administration has told the Daily Telegraph.
“We have a group just to deal with chemical weapons. They are already trained to secure sites,” said Gen Adnan Silou, the most senior ranking member of Bashar al-Assad’s regime to defect and join the FSA.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-secure-chemical-weapons-site.html


Quote:
“We’re worried about what the [Syrian] military is doing,” one official said, “but we’re also worried about some of the opposition groups,” including some linked to Hezbollah, which has set up camps near some of the chemical weapons depots.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/03/wo...-gets-another-warning.html?hp&_r=0


Will FSA use chemical weapons to elicit a response from NATO to take out Assad?
Everything is possible.

      Wow!

Edited:
Syria’s top 10 businessmen flee to Egypt
Tuesday, 04 December 2012

With mounting violence in Syria, a large number of businessmen have started transferring their money and business to Egypt, Turkey’s state Anatolia News Agency reported this week.
The businesses, established by Syrian entrepreneurs range from real estate, stock market investments, to smaller projects and retail sales.
http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/12/04/253308.html

[Edited 2012-12-04 07:02:59]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

Pathetic if true, I thought Bashar was beyond this, isnt he a dentst by profession who didnt even want to be a leader?

User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3003 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 18):
Pathetic if true, I thought Bashar was beyond this, isnt he a dentst by profession who didnt even want to be a leader?

Try being a puppet. Perhaps he doesn't really have powers like we think.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3015 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 18):
snt he a dentst by profession who didnt even want to be a leader

He was an ophthalmologist - I think you may be confusing him with Turkmenistan's president, Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedow who was a dentist prior to entering politics. You are correct, though, in that al-Assad didn't seem interested in politics - his older brother Bassel was the one being groomed to take power, but he died in a car accident before that could happen.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12411 posts, RR: 37
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
If he uses the weapons, he could stop the rebellion and risk the US's wrath

Aren't the rebels in Damascus? Surely he wouldn't do that and this being the case, has the time not past when using chemical weapons would stop the rebellion?

Quoting casinterest (Reply 11):
I see any intervention being joint NATO-Israeli.

With the situation regarding the new housing developments in the West Bank, Israel is pretty toxic at the moment and any action involving co-operation between NATO and Israel would go down very badly in the Arab world. Don't see this happening; besides which, Israel is powerful enough to protect itself.

My question would be this: if the Americans believe that Syria is ready to use chemical weapons, on what do they base this? If they know where the weapons are (and I presume they do), can't they just send in teams to neutralise them, or render them useless in a safe way.

What will Russia's reaction to this be? One would hope that they would not dig their heels in and say that any attack on the Syrian regime would be an act of aggression requiring their intervention. The optics of this would be terrible for Russia, so it's a losing situation for them (which is ironic, since I would imagine much of these supplies came from Russia or were developed with their assistance.) Either Assad doesn't use chemical weapons and is deposed (and killed), or he does use them and he's bombed heavily ... either way, Russia is out of the picture.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19419 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2971 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 16):
If the worst comes to the worst, he can always pick up the phone to Putin and arrange a more than comfortable retirement for him and the family in Russia. Such arrangements have worked for countless autocrats in the past..

He needs to know when to give up, though. Once the rebels have control of the airport or even have enough artillery within range of it, flying out ceases to be an option.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 17):
Will FSA use chemical weapons to elicit a response from NATO to take out Assad?
Everything is possible.

In what sense? Whoever deploys such weapons will immediately be a pariah. Now, what the US would do if FSA deployed these weapons against the Assad loyalists I couldn't possibly guess.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 21):
Aren't the rebels in Damascus? Surely he wouldn't do that and this being the case, has the time not past when using chemical weapons would stop the rebellion?

If he kills every breathing human in Damascus, that will stop the rebellion. Not that this would be a wise strategic move on his part, but it would stop it. We're talking about a desperate man who is trying to buy every minute he can. That is going to lead to some very silly-seeming decisions.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2941 times:

Russia and China both have a lot to lose if Assad uses chemical weapons, so they'll probably persuade him not to use them. The big concern here is if the Rebels capture the chemical weapons facility. Hezbollah and al-Qaeda will have militants embedded in the rebel camps, which obviously poses a huge security risk to the international community.


No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

I'm usually against intervention, but to protect citizenry from chemical attacks is ok in my book. Don't care if they have oil or not, and I wouldn't want to get involved in BS long lasting wars, but going forth with the UN or NATO and doing some airstrikes might help the situation without being too intrusive


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 25, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2979 times:

Syrian rebels kill 29 students in attacks on schools near Damascus

A mortar attack by Syrian rebels on a school near Damascus has reportedly killed 29 students and a teacher,local SANA news agency reported.
http://rt.com/news/syria-students-killed-rebels-255/

During the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 the US funded Al-Qaeda to fight the Soviets by proxy. Now the EU, US and NATO are actively supporting these islamist "rebel" groups in Syria.

Hillary and Obama support the "rebels"

 Wow!



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 26, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2934 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 25):
SANA news agency

You mean the Syrian Arab News Agency? Great source of information...  

Why are you even reading that BS?



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19419 posts, RR: 58
Reply 27, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2978 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 23):
Russia and China both have a lot to lose if Assad uses chemical weapons, so they'll probably persuade him not to use them. The big concern here is if the Rebels capture the chemical weapons facility. Hezbollah and al-Qaeda will have militants embedded in the rebel camps, which obviously poses a huge security risk to the international community.

That said, so far most Islamist terrorist attacks have been against the West, rather than against Russia and China, both of whom maintain relatively cozy relationships with most of the Mid-East countries, including Iran. The US is probably at higher risk if terrorists gain access to the chemical weapons than China and Russia are.

These agents scare the bujeezus out of me, perhaps more than radioactives because you can't detect them with a geiger counter or an X-ray, you actually need to do a chemical analysis. If you try to transport uranium, it will either set off a geiger counter or it will be encapsulated in a lead container that will stick out on an X-ray. You could transport sarin in tanks labeled "Liquid Helium." Heck, you could transport it in shampoo bottles and as long as they are perfectly sealed and rigorously cleaned of any residue, there would be way to know what was inside.

You can also use it as a "binary chemical weapon," which means that methylphosphonyl difluoride, which is relatively stable (unlike sarin, which tends to degrade) can be mixed with isopropyl alcohol (commonly available at your local drug store) immediately before the bomb is detonated. The synthesis reaction is rapid (completes in less than a second). The side-product is hydrogen fluoride, which is also shockingly toxic.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 28, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 27):
That said, so far most Islamist terrorist attacks have been against the West, rather than against Russia and China, both of whom maintain relatively cozy relationships with most of the Mid-East countries, including Iran. The US is probably at higher risk if terrorists gain access to the chemical weapons than China and Russia are.

China and Russia would be committing diplomatic suicide by backing a nation that deploys chemical weapons indiscriminately. If they allow NATO intervention in such a case, then they might as well kiss their regional interests goodby. Basically they would be stuck between a rock and a hard place. The best course of action for China and Russia would be to pressure Assad to keep his chemical weapons locked away.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 29, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2893 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
I don't think the US should get involved, the Turks are more than capable enough to sort this out with assistance from the UN.

Maybe you're right, but who primarily is the UN assistance? USA

Quoting pvjin (Reply 14):
Yeah, this is the sad truth. Or if we go a bit further back in history think about Rwandan genocide, nobody did anything as Rwanda has not that much oil or other important resources.

Um you are quite off topic, but i'll just placate you by saying that Rwanda was an issue out of everyone's control. Aid was suspended and the UN set up camps for these victims to seek safe haven from. Did you want the US to intervene? Using your previous argument, should we have? Of course we had no business being there. That's why we didn't intervene to the extent we are talking about with Syria.

No more discussing other countries' issues except those involved with Syrian conflicts, or I'm going to SD the post. Seriously.

Quoting 777way (Reply 18):
Pathetic if true, I thought Bashar was beyond this, isnt he a dentst by profession who didnt even want to be a leader?

Happy joining day, by the way  

And yeah you need to take into fact that power makes people go nuts.  



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 30, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2885 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 29):
Um you are quite off topic, but i'll just placate you by saying that Rwanda was an issue out of everyone's control. Aid was suspended and the UN set up camps for these victims to seek safe haven from. Did you want the US to intervene? Using your previous argument, should we have? Of course we had no business being there. That's why we didn't intervene to the extent we are talking about with Syria.

I think he was referring to a double standard of countries we intervene in, which is hard to deny. I don't think it was a jab at America or anything



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 31, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 28):
The best course of action for China and Russia would be to pressure Assad to keep his chemical weapons locked away.

I would think they would be doing that and they would be equally concerned that chemical weapons fall into the hands of opposition groups. Russia has experienced terrorist attacks carried out in Dagestan, Chechnya, North Ossetia, to name a few. In 2011 58 people were killed and 247 injured in terrorist attacks.

China has also witnessed terrorist attacks in Xinjiang, including in the city of Kashgar. Islamist militant fighters from Western China are also reported by the Pak Institute for Peace Studies to be present in northern Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. So China would also be loath to see the ingredients for Sarin falling into the wrong hands.


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 32, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2758 times:

Is France going to send the French foreign legion in Syria? I wonder what these "special units" are about...

The French are preparing to intervene in Syria

According to our information, everything is ready for the Special Forces conducting targeted operations to seize stocks of chemicals.

Discreetly, the French are preparing to intervene militarily in Syria . According to our information, only special forces are involved at this stage. The prevailing pattern consist of an interventions French modest integrated with a multinational coalition. This organization prepares the model which was set up during the war against Libya Gaddafi.

So it count at least U.S. , the UK and France, among other NATO members, including Turkey probably that would be associated Jordan and perhaps other Arab countries. There is no question of a ground invasion or massive air and / or sustainable, but rather a series of raids firmly supported by planes and helicopters, for putting the hand on the stock of chemical weapons .

Le Point/Google translate
http://www.lepoint.fr/chroniqueurs-d...en-syrie-04-12-2012-1539285_53.php

 Wow!  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 33, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2714 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 32):
There is no question of a ground invasion or massive air and / or sustainable, but rather a series of raids firmly supported by planes and helicopters, for putting the hand on the stock of chemical weapons .

This is how I think international military support should work. Going in and invading kills your troops, kills civilians, costs a ton of money, destroys the country, and on top of it all, you are resented. No, use tactical strikes after you thoroughly analyzed the situation. JMO



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 34, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 33):
Going in and invading kills your troops, kills civilians, costs a ton of money, destroys the country, and on top of it all, you are resented.

just saw this...

Thousands of US troops arrive near Syrian shore on USS Eisenhower
The USS Eisenhower, an American aircraft carrier that holds eight fighter bomber squadrons and 8,000 men, arrived at the Syrian coast yesterday in the midst of a heavy storm, indicating US preparation for a potential ground intervention.
http://rt.com/usa/news/us-eisenhower-syria-military-369/

Agent provocateur...

This is not good.

    Wow!

[Edited 2012-12-05 13:33:55]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 35, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2673 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):

Agent provocateur...

Good description of whomever wrote that article. For one, they completely misidentify the capabilities of the air group deployed onboard the Eisenhower. CVW-7 consists of 7 squadrons (and a detachment of an 8th squadron). Half of those are fighter-bombers. The other half are helicopters, electronic warfare, cargo, and AWACS. CVW-7 is composed of:

VFA-83 Rampagers (F/A-18C) - Strike Fighter
VFA-103 Jolly Rogers (F/A-18F) - Strike Fighter
VFA-131 Wildcats (F/A-18C) - Strike Fighter
VFA-143 Pukin' Dogs (F/A-18E) - Strike Fighter
VAW-121 Bluetails (E-2C) - Airborne Early Warning and Control
VAQ-140 Patriots (EA-6B) - Electronic Warfare
VRC-40 (detachment) Rawhides (C-2A) - Fleet Logistics Support
HS-5 Nightdippers (SH-60F) - Antisubmarine Warfare and Combat Search and Rescue

As for 8,000 men, whomever came up with that number needs some help. Maybe 8,000 in the entire battlegroup, but on the Ike alone, it's around 5,680, of whom about 2,500 are assigned to the air wing and many of whom would be ship's personnel.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6146 posts, RR: 30
Reply 36, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2664 times:
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It seems the end is near:

In Spanish only:

http://www.clarin.com/mundo/Aseguran...lua-Latinoamerica_0_823117874.html

According to the dailies Haaretz and the Guardian, Syrian authorities have initiated contacts with the governments of Venezuela, Cuba and Ecuador, in order for Bashar al Assad to be granted asylum.

If true, and if it happens and any one of these countries grants this animal asylum, they will effectively become international pariahs.



MGGS
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 37, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):
Thousands of US troops arrive near Syrian shore on USS Eisenhower
The USS Eisenhower, an American aircraft carrier that holds eight fighter bomber squadrons and 8,000 men, arrived at the Syrian coast yesterday in the midst of a heavy storm, indicating US preparation for a potential ground intervention.

I'm in the US Navy... Carrier groups are not used for amphibious assaults. I'm sure they have limited ground capability but most of those 8000 men (and women) in some way support the strike capability and aircraft of the carrier group.

Even if I didn't know that and if I was a betting man, I'd pull a Romney and bet $10,000 we aren't going to send ground troops in minus special operation groups (that go everywhere.)

Don't believe everything you read on the internet



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 38, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2646 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 37):

I'm in the US Navy... Carrier groups are not used for amphibious assaults. I'm sure they have limited ground capability but most of those 8000 men (and women) in some way support the strike capability and aircraft of the carrier group.

Per the article, MC linked, the Iwo Jima and it's MEU are also in the area. Of course, given its other factual inaccuracies...



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 39, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2632 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 38):
Per the article, MC linked, the Iwo Jima and it's MEU are also in the area. Of course, given its other factual inaccuracies...

Ah well that has the potential for ground invasions but yeah... definitely not going in. And if we were actually going invade Syria (like that would ever happen) I hope we'd use more than one MEU... if you're gonna do it, do it right

We have amphibs all over the world at any given time and we usually park them outside of countries we don't like. Doesn't mean we're gonna use them, we usually don't



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 40, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2626 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
But can he be so insane as to think that this action won't bring the UN (and with it the USA) down on his head? Is it possible to be that dense?

I believe that guys like him live in lala land. They are actually believing that they are going to continue to be in control, no matter what they do,

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Well, he's in an awful position, really. He can't possibly win, but he's desperate.

He's history - it is only a question of how long he lasts. And, in the end, he knows that he will be tried, found guilty and go see the hangman.

What I believe we need now is for some powerful countries getting to the senior military officers and ensure they understand that they are in line for the hangman if they use the gas, or contribute to other horrors. Maybe a reminder of the fate of some of Iraq's senior military personnel would help.


User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2769 posts, RR: 4
Reply 41, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2618 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Looks like Assad is getting ready to use them http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-military-awaits-assads-order?lite . I really hope he doesn't, this is not going to be good.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6146 posts, RR: 30
Reply 42, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2613 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 40):
He's history - it is only a question of how long he lasts. And, in the end, he knows that he will be tried, found guilty and go see the hangman.

Are you sure? I would think the end is going to be more "Gadaffiesque" than what you write.



MGGS
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 43, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2543 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):
Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 41):
Looks like Assad is getting ready to use them http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-military-awaits-assads-order?lite . I really hope he doesn't, this is not going to be good.

Well given both of these.......We're going to see some missiles fired soon   



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 44, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2531 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 41):
Looks like Assad is getting ready to use them http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...-military-awaits-assads-order?lite

...says the media who told you about the 'fact' that Iraq had WMD

  

well... the countdown begins... Assad, the Syrian military and the rest of the culprits have 60 days to use the gas.

I wonder what Israel would do if Syria starts shooting chemical missiles.... not on their own people but on Israeli territory??

  

[Edited 2012-12-06 01:44:26]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinepellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2368 posts, RR: 8
Reply 45, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

At this point Assad is as good as dead if he remains in Syria for the long term so he might as well take as many people as he can with him. Classic murder-suicide.

Although it's not PC, let a neutral nation take him into exile with a few million euros and negotiate a "peaceful" transition of power. Guaranteed, no matter what happens, it will not be peaceful going forward.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlinePu From Sweden, joined Dec 2011, 695 posts, RR: 13
Reply 46, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

I've heard 25000 children die in Africa every day because of starvation or easily preventable diseases.

Protecting Syrian rebels from Sarin gas (or so much attention given to Syria generally) is a higher moral priority for the world on what grounds?




Pu


User currently offlinepellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2368 posts, RR: 8
Reply 47, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Quoting Pu (Reply 46):
I've heard 25000 children die in Africa every day because of starvation or easily preventable diseases.

Protecting Syrian rebels from Sarin gas (or so much attention given to Syria generally) is a higher moral priority for the world on what grounds?

No one who makes policy cares about sub-Saharan African poor. The minerals of importance to the West are extracted with the help of dictators and compliant governments. No government or collective people on this earth care about another countries' human beings unless there is a strategic importance to it...with the exception of NGOs and charities....which dollar for dollar are insignificant compared to government spending. Sad but pertinent fact of life.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 48, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2474 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 44):

...says the media who told you about the 'fact' that Iraq had WMD

And you're buying into media that's telling you the "fact" that an American CVN has 8 fighter-bomber squadrons? Which one of those two facts is easily verifiable on a number of legitimate websites up to, and including, the USN's own public access website for CVW-7? I'm not saying our media is perfect, but considering that fairly major inaccuracy, I'm just saying people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones unless they want to come off as an

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 34):

Agent provocateur...



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 49, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 48):
And you're buying into media

I am not buying into MSM. I am just trying to understand what the true situation is - not the MSM version of events.

Take this one:

Syrian "rebels" are said to be testing chemical weapons.

While President Obama is busy talking about Syria’s chemical weapons, a troubling video appears on YouTube yesterday showing what appears to be a rebel group testing chemical weapons on lab rabbits, and threatening to use them against Syrian civilians
http://www.syria-tribune.com/e/index...a-tribune/58-chem-weapons-in-syria

The video:
Syria Rebels testing Tekkim chemicals to use as chem weapons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-6O-gApVrU&feature=youtu.be

What if the Syrian "rebels" have a nerve agent?
What if Assad has not mixed his chemicals?

 Wow!

and this... (Google translate from Hebrew)

Syrian sources close to the regime in Damascus can tell that the rebels complex global jihadists are near the Syrian chemical weapons complex large central area of ​​a town - the next count Halab, in northwestern Syria.
According to information available from Syrian sources indicate that the armed opponents to the regime accompanied by global jihadists who gained control of parts of the town a count, which is less than 3 km from the Syrian chemical weapons, the battles that took place there last month and the last few days. Facility houses long-range missiles, including Scud missiles that threaten Israel.

http://translate.google.com/translat...ni-alper.net/archives/1044&act=url

and now this...

Syrian Rebel Founding 'Robin Hood Brigade' Vows To Conquer Israel, Iran, And Europe

In a revealing on-camera interview, Islamist militants in Aleppo, Syria, are offering a glimpse into their grander goals after they rid themselves of President Bashar Assad’s rule.
In the interview translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), one fighter says that “Allah willing,” the next goals are to invade Israel, Turkey, Iran, Iraq and – most intriguingly – Spain.

http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/6850.htm

Israel better think about what will be after Assad...

 Wow!

[Edited 2012-12-06 06:30:25]


There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 50, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2419 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 49):
I am not buying into MSM

I know. The media you did buy into in that previous article got an easily verifiable fact COMPLETELY wrong. That's what I'm saying - your media is just as flawed, perhaps moreso, than the MSM.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 51, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2419 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 44):
I wonder what Israel would do if Syria starts shooting chemical missiles.... not on their own people but on Israeli territory??

Why on Earth would they do that?

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 49):
Syrian Rebel Founding 'Robin Hood Brigade' Vows To Conquer Israel, Iran, And Europe

This is the same crap a lot of groups "vow" to do. The phrase goes: easier said than done


I don't get some of your posts. They are way left field... at least provide some explanation! And be careful what you read on the internet... it is often very, very wrong...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 52, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2424 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 50):
your media is just as flawed, perhaps moreso, than the MSM.

Please bring your own links from the MSM and contribute something to the thread rather than just saying my media are all flawed.

I will let you continue the thread with your own links and stories on what is happening in Syria with links from FOX, CNN and MSNBC.

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinepowerslide From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2399 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 49):
Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 52):

Get help.

Does Syria have much of a SAM network for the Navy/Marine fighters to worry about? I'm going to assume that they'll first dump a hundred or so Tomahawks into Syria and mop up from there like in Libya.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 54, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2367 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 42):
I would think the end is going to be more "Gadaffiesque" than what you write.

That works, but I doubt if that would be the option for all who are heading to trial. My be, though, is that it will be very profitable being a rope salesman in Syria before too long.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 55, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2369 times:

Reports that Assad's troops are giving an ultimatum to the rebels to surrender; just heard from twitter.


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinefridgmus From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1442 posts, RR: 11
Reply 56, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2373 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
But can he be so insane as to think that this action won't bring the UN (and with it the USA) down on his head? Is it possible to be that dense?

Yes Doc, he can be that insane. Obviously he can't see the reality that his govt is not long for this world. He's so desperate to hold onto power that he can't see reality. His father, Hafez al Assad was extremly brutal as well.

I don't know about NATO or the UN, but I do see us, the Turks and maybe the Israeli's hitting them hard if Assad is so incredibly stupid to use chemical weapons.


Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
If he is sincerely thinking of using these, he may not be thinking about the US intervention part, or may be stupid enough to think that he can actually beat our military.

He is that stupid. If we go in there in force, it will be over quick and we'll have the backing of the world, IMHO. I also see Turkey and Israel mending their relationship over this and hitting Assad as well. And you know the Israeli's won't miss!

But above all, with all the problems of civilian casualties in Afghanistan, in any action against the Syrians, civilians MUST be protected!

Just my   

F



The Lockheed Super Constellation, the REAL Queen of the Skies!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21530 posts, RR: 55
Reply 57, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2339 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 44):
I wonder what Israel would do if Syria starts shooting chemical missiles.... not on their own people but on Israeli territory??

Israel would hit back. As they should. Whether they use their own WMDs to hit back is another matter - I'd tend to believe they wouldn't given the power struggle in Syria and the fact that Assad does not represent the whole country.

Quoting pellegrine (Reply 45):
Although it's not PC, let a neutral nation take him into exile with a few million euros and negotiate a "peaceful" transition of power.

Except that sends the message that you can get away with what Assad did, which isn't a good message to send. If you can get him out the same way the wolrd got Qaddafi out, that would be the way to go.

Quoting fridgmus (Reply 56):
But above all, with all the problems of civilian casualties in Afghanistan, in any action against the Syrians, civilians MUST be protected!

But you can bet that Assad will make that as difficult as possible. If there is to be military action, there will be civilian casualties - that much is certain, no matter how hard the US or NATO might try.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 58, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2286 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 33):

Tactical strikes without ground support may not be the best option in this case. Due to the high density urban environment, no recon and intelligence troops on the ground painting targets increases the probability of collateral damage 10 fold. Any military intervention in Syria would require a large contingent of special forces and airborne units. In any case, casaulties, both military and civilian, would be high due to the 3-way kill zone between NATO forces, the Islamist rebels, and Syrian regulars.

Quoting Pu (Reply 46):
Protecting Syrian rebels from Sarin gas (or so much attention given to Syria generally) is a higher moral priority for the world on what grounds?

Any use of WMD's, and how the international community responds, sets a precedent on the world stage. In other words, the concept of Stare Decisis.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 59, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2287 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 51):
Syrian Rebel Founding 'Robin Hood Brigade' Vows To Conquer Israel, Iran, And Europe

Who knows they might be planted by outside forces to legitimize invasion of the country with such false statements, its all so obvious.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 60, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2274 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 59):

More likely an Al-Qaeda cell, like we've seen in Yemen.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 61, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 58):
Tactical strikes without ground support may not be the best option in this case. Due to the high density urban environment, no recon and intelligence troops on the ground painting targets increases the probability of collateral damage 10 fold. Any military intervention in Syria would require a large contingent of special forces and airborne units. In any case, casaulties, both military and civilian, would be high due to the 3-way kill zone between NATO forces, the Islamist rebels, and Syrian regulars.

I think the scope of what I am talking about and the scope of what you are talking about are much different. Special Forces and informants on the ground with tactical airstrikes, not meant to take out every threat, just give the rebels an edge. Just like in Libya...

No doubt, the key to any conflict is the infantry. Every other force is an asset to help boots on the ground.

In this case, however, the boots on the ground are the Syrian rebels. If we wanted to conquer the county and do it correctly, we'd need a full scale invasion just as you talk about. I hope that is not our intentions...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinepellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2368 posts, RR: 8
Reply 62, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2159 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 57):

Except that sends the message that you can get away with what Assad did, which isn't a good message to send. If you can get him out the same way the wolrd got Qaddafi out, that would be the way to go.

What did Assad do that is so terrible? What did Qaddafi do? I have critical differences with Western interests and strategy and I will state the position of truth. Westerners have killed thousands outside of "wars" yet everyone wants to blame dictators (which the US have supported) when it has become too late. I don't believe that.

No one has done anything against George W. Bush, or even against Obama for his drone attacks which kill innocent civilians. Yet let's lambast these North African and Arab leaders who killed thousands of their own people.

US leaders are directly responsible for tens if not hundreds of thousands of extra-judicial civilian deaths since 1945.

Yet, everyone talks about these old dictators, often ones which the US formerly supported, as if they're the devil. Please.

Same old positioned news stories to keep Americans busy with bullshit which does not really matter, and keep the focus away from internal issues which do.



oh boy!!!
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 63, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2131 times:

They didnt help Rwanda and Burundi, all these pale in comparison to what happened there, and those were Christians.

User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2529 posts, RR: 23
Reply 64, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2111 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 4):
and nobody is intervening

Yes. Assad has already said he will "fight to the death" so he doesn't care how many people he takes with him.

The people of Syria appear to be on their own as far as their Arab bretheren are concerned. Why have the the other Arab nations not stood-up and put a stop to the madness? Why do none of the Arab States with all their mighty petro-dollar funded power step in and say ENOUGH!

The U.S. has POURED money and armament into equipping ARAB armies. Why don't they march into Syria and put a stop to this? AND yes, wherever the wind blows will carry the poison across borders to affect other innocent people. Are the other Arab nations afraid of Iran? Afraid of confronting the Iranian backed dictator? Is that what it is?

Ridiculous.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 65, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2101 times:

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 64):
The people of Syria appear to be on their own as far as their Arab bretheren are concerned. Why have the the other Arab nations not stood-up and put a stop to the madness? Why do none of the Arab States with all their mighty petro-dollar funded power step in and say ENOUGH!

So just because they're "Arab" means they should stop it and its their responsibility? For someone accusing others of being antisemitic, that's pretty racist

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 64):
The U.S. has POURED money and armament into equipping ARAB armies. Why don't they march into Syria and put a stop to this?

Yes, we need to cut off all/most of our foreign aid. And really, is another war something we really need right now?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 66, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2079 times:

Quoting pellegrine (Reply 62):
What did Assad do that is so terrible? What did Qaddafi do? I have critical differences with Western interests and strategy and I will state the position of truth. Westerners have killed thousands outside of "wars" yet everyone wants to blame dictators (which the US have supported) when it has become too late. I don't believe that.

No one has done anything against George W. Bush, or even against Obama for his drone attacks which kill innocent civilians. Yet let's lambast these North African and Arab leaders who killed thousands of their own people.

US leaders are directly responsible for tens if not hundreds of thousands of extra-judicial civilian deaths since 1945.

Yet, everyone talks about these old dictators, often ones which the US formerly supported, as if they're the devil. Please.

+ 1

Rebels captured the “chloride factory” at Al Safira east of Aleppo

This is a codename for the Syrian army’s biggest chemical weapons store and base, which also houses Syrian Scud D missiles armed with chemical warheads adjusted to fire at Israel. Assad’s warning to the rebels not to fight with chemical weapons is taken as a means of justifying his own resort to chemical weapons and brought this threat closer than ever before. The West, Israel and Syria’s other neighbors have gone on elevated preparedness.

DEBKAfile file: The fall of Al Safira into rebel hands crosses a red line and places the Assad regime in direct peril. Possession of the chemical-tipped Scuds gives the rebels their strongest weapon for forcing the Syria army to capitulate.

http://www.debka.com/article/22596/A...s-West-Israel-on-high-preparedness

  

Syria Says Rebels May Use Chemical Weapons From A Mysterious Factory Near Aleppo

Syria warned on Saturday that rebels could use chemical weapons in their fight against President Bashar al-Assad's forces, and insisted that the regime will never unleash such arms on its own people.

http://www.businessinsider.com/assad...ns-chemical-factory-aleppo-2012-12

  

Syria: Rebels may resort to using chemical weapons

Syrian Foreign Ministry says Damascus would never use WMDs against civilians, adds rebels gained control of toxic chlorine factory

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4317172,00.html

Asad already said he will never ever use chemical weapons against his own people but also said foreign backed terrorists may do

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 67, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1983 times:

What would Prince Harry have to gain by helping to oust Syrian President Assad? Why would he want to get involved in this?

Article:
In shining armor: Apache-piloting Prince Harry to ‘help oust Assad’

Recent UK speculation that Syria is preparing to use its chemical weapons – which would result in foreign military intervention – has taken a Hollywood twist: Prince Harry, an Apache pilot stationed in Afghanistan, could join the fight against Assad.
“The prince is lined up to help go in and oust Assad with the Apache squad,” the Daily Star quoted a government source as saying.

Prince Harry would allegedly join the fight if NATO were to deploy its forces, including UK Apache helicopters, inside Syria.
http://rt.com/news/prince-harry-sent-syria-721/

This is weird.

 Wow!    



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 68, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1959 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 67):
What would Prince Harry have to gain by helping to oust Syrian President Assad? Why would he want to get involved in this?

...because Assad is a jerk killing scores of innocent civilians???????? I doubt there is some New World Order conspiracy going on. I wouldn't mind deploying there (after checking out that intervention wouldn't cause a SNAFU like many of our other interventions.) Not all intervention is bad, this guy could kill, let's be honest, millions of his own people with gas...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5366 posts, RR: 53
Reply 69, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1950 times:

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 52):

Please bring your own links from the MSM and contribute something to the thread rather than just saying my media are all flawed.

Or please take the time to realize that on an aviation website, someone might just realize a total and complete misstatement regarding a publicly available piece of knowledge like what numbers and types of aircraft constitute a carrier's air wing.

Quoting powerslide (Reply 53):


Does Syria have much of a SAM network for the Navy/Marine fighters to worry about? I'm going to assume that they'll first dump a hundred or so Tomahawks into Syria and mop up from there like in Libya.

About 20 SA-9s, 48 SA-10s, 20 SA-11s, 35 SA-13s, 8 SA-17s, 6 SA-19s, and somewhere between 36-50 SA-22s.

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 67):

This is weird.

No, it's not. If you recall, Prince Andrew flew antisubmarine, antisurface, and rescue missions from HMS Invincible during the Falklands Campaign in the 1980s and, similarly, Harry's also served in combat in Afghanistan previously as a Forward Air Controller before he trained in Apaches.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7832 posts, RR: 52
Reply 70, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1885 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 69):
About 20 SA-9s, 48 SA-10s, 20 SA-11s, 35 SA-13s, 8 SA-17s, 6 SA-19s, and somewhere between 36-50 SA-22s.

Nothing the EG-18G can't handle... I mean the EA-6B is still an amazing plane, but the EG-18G is even better

Not even sure we'd go for the missile sites, a lot of times we just take out the radar capability. Not too familiar with all those missiles, are any non-radar?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10893 posts, RR: 37
Reply 71, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1823 times:

Guess who is helping the Jihadists?

REPORT: The US Is Openly Sending Heavy Weapons From Libya To Syrian Rebels

The Obama administration has decided to launch a covert operation to send heavy weapons to Syrian rebels, Christina Lamb of The Sunday Times of London reports.

Diplomatic sources told the Sunday Times that the U.S. "bought weapons from the stockpiles of Libya's former dictator Muammar Gaddafi."

The heavy arms include mortars, rocket propelled grenades, anti-tank missiles and the controversial anti-aircraft heat-seeking SA-7 missiles, which are integral to countering Bashar Al-Assad's bombing campaign.

http://www.businessinsider.com/obama...yrian-rebels-2012-12#ixzz2Eb06PmMn

 Wow!

Syria Propaganda Looking a Lot Like Iraq Propaganda

watch this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=dlkLVejR2Vw

  



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
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