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Cincinnati's New Brent Spence Bridge To Have Tolls  
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

As part of the governors of Ohio and Kentucky's meeting today, which discussed the future of CVG Airport
(see thread about CVG here on this link.... )

They decided that the funding for the new Brent Spence Bridge project will be partially taken care of by tolls. This is being met with mixed reviews on both sides of the Ohio River, as people of low-income are starting to question how economical this will be for them. Also small businesses are questioning rather this is going to impact their bottom line or not.

Here's the thing: if the tolls were not to be implemented, then taxes on both sides of the river would have had to have been hiked big time in order to take care of the cost of this 2+billion dollar project. The Brent Spence Bridge is a collapse waiting to happen and has been functionally obsolete since its opening in the late 60s.

I hope this gets resolved fast but it looks like the tolls are going to happen no matter what. EZ-Pass is going to be the collecting agent for the tolls.

Opinions? Thoughts? Any advice from those who experienced tolls added to their local freeway?

-PHX787


次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5452 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

I don't have a problem with a toll. Use the bridge, pay the toll. Same issue here with the Ohio River Bridges Project. All these folks are concerned with the possibility (probability) of tolls, yet bitch when the hear the cost to maintain.


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):

Opinions? Thoughts? Any advice from those who experienced tolls added to their local freeway?

I think it's fairly conventional that large infrastructure have a user-pays component in the financing. However, significant public capital is required as well. What is alarming to me is the thousands of bridges in the US that are officially deemed at 'structural risk' due to decades of non-investment. Is this the result of the extreme anti-public investment rhetoric of the GoP and their bosses for the last generation? Maintaining infrastructure should be a clear 'keep the lights on' budget, not a discretionary item to be arbitrated in favour of congress members' corporate bosses' pet interests.

On your question, in my experience, the addition of a toll to an existing freeway CAN be accepted, but the objection that taxpayers already paid for the road needs to be offset by very significant ADDITIONAL benefits brought: e.g. Melbourne CityLink added massive under city tunnels and bridges to existing taxpayer funded highway network bringing a massive additional benefit for which the users were willing to pay.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12564 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3124 times:

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 2):
On your question, in my experience, the addition of a toll to an existing freeway CAN be accepted, but the objection that taxpayers already paid for the road needs to be offset by very significant ADDITIONAL benefits brought

You are over-thinking this. Many, myself included, are willing to pay to leave Cincinnati!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3073 times:

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 2):
However, significant public capital is required as well. What is alarming to me is the thousands of bridges in the US that are officially deemed at 'structural risk' due to decades of non-investment. Is this the result of the extreme anti-public investment rhetoric of the GoP and their bosses for the last generation?

Actually it's both parties. The City wants to focus on "streetcars" to the poor neighborhoods that will probably bring more crime, and the county wants to focus on improving the schools and the infrastructure.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
You are over-thinking this. Many, myself included, are willing to pay to leave Cincinnati!

Thats why I am in Phoenix and soon Japan   But with lots of regret though....I have a lot of hometown pride.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6669 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3070 times:

Would it be possible to get a yearly contract or something ? Instead of paying each time you use it.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5):
Would it be possible to get a yearly contract or something ? Instead of paying each time you use it.

EZ-Pass has that option for the Ohio Turnpike last time I checked. it's similar to paying for a parking pass at a downtown garage for the year.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
The City wants to focus on "streetcars" to the poor neighborhoods that will probably bring more crime,

Why do you put streetcar in quotation marks? Is it something else than tram? And why will it bring crime?


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
The Brent Spence Bridge is a collapse waiting to happen and has been functionally obsolete since its opening in the late 60s.

After living about 25 miles north on I-75 from the BSB, (and crossing over the thing about 9,000 times during the 50 some years I lived there..............I was unaware that it was about to "fall in" ! Yeah, it did have a few design flaws, mostly relating to the "suddenness" of the southbound get-off ramp, and there were the occasional wrecks every now & then, but other than that, I don't remember anyone ever saying it was "about to collapse".

I can tell you this much about Ohio River Bridges in general; ever since the Silver Bridge (at Galapolis) DID collapse, (and sent a whole bunch of cars and trucks into the river), EVERY bridge crossing the Ohio between Pittsburgh and Cairo, Ill. has he'd very thorough inspections periodically as needed; There has always been minor "grippeing" about the BS, and in recent years, it's only been about half wide enough to efficiently handle the volume of traffic.

Something else that anyone not from the immediate area would wold probably be unaware of is......the BSB,(as well as the other bridges crossing the river at Cincinnati, are ALL in Kentucky, (and not in Ohio), because the state boundry line is the low-water line on the Ohio side of the river at "pool stage" in the summer months; Kentucky has ALWAYS been very quick to bring this up to the "city fathers" of Cincinnati, anytime anyone in Cincinnati tries to have any "say" in anything having to do with the Ohio River; in fact, there have even been attempts made to rename it to the "Kentucky River", but there already IS a Kentucky River, so none of these efforts ever went anywhere. But of course, when it comes to "who's gonna PAY to build a new bridge, they always act like the damn Ohio River is up around Cleveland !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 7):
Why do you put streetcar in quotation marks? Is it something else than tram? And why will it bring crime?

It's a very questionable use of city money. The city is forgoing additional police departments and forces, as well as an additional city jail, to stem the growing tide of crime in the city, in favor of building an unnecessary public works project.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 8):
After living about 25 miles north on I-75 from the BSB, (and crossing over the thing about 9,000 times during the 50 some years I lived there..............I was unaware that it was about to "fall in" ! Yeah, it did have a few design flaws, mostly relating to the "suddenness" of the southbound get-off ramp, and there were the occasional wrecks every now & then, but other than that, I don't remember anyone ever saying it was "about to collapse".

Well last year remember they had large chunks of concrete fall from the bridge. They said that the bridge is quite unstable....which leads to my next point:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 8):
EVERY bridge crossing the Ohio between Pittsburgh and Cairo, Ill. has he'd very thorough inspections periodically as needed

That's why they're rushing to get this thing replaced.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19731 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2926 times:

Is it nerdy that I keep reading "Brent SPACE Bridge" and imagine a space elevator?

User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2902 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
The city is forgoing additional police departments and forces, as well as an additional city jail, to stem the growing tide of crime in the city,

Not that I agree with it, but applying your argument from the gun control threads - no matter how many police and city jails, there will still be criminals...


User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9211 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

Are there any renderings of this new bridge? Apparently it's supposed to have 6 lanes of I-75 on the upper deck and 2 lanes of I-71 South and 3 lanes of southbound local traffic on the bottom deck. It's according to wikipedia, so accuracy is probably not that great...

What's this about LRT from Cincinnati to CVG? I haven't heard of anything about that...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3651 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2896 times:

Having users pay for the bridge seems like the logical solution.

The problem we have in the Bay Area is that tolls continue to rise even though the bridges were long ago paid for. The people in charge changed their mission to include deciding that bridge users should also cover the cost of other large unprofitable public transportation projects, such as buses and boats. The tolls became revenue generators rather than debt collectors.

Once you give them access to your pocket, they will never leave it.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 12):
Are there any renderings of this new bridge?

They posted a rendering in the Enquirer a few years back but I haven't seen anything since



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently onlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2891 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
You are over-thinking this. Many, myself included, are willing to pay to leave Cincinnati!

Visited Cincinnati for the first time back in October, and I'd love to move up there. Some of you former Ohioans don't know how good you had it!  

Tolls are likely the way to go given the lack of funds in the coffers today. I am generally against toll roads, but I can understand why they are necessary to build and maintain bridges and tunnels. It will be interesting to see how much of the traffic gets pushed over to other bridges, since this will be the only toll bridge across the Ohio River in the area.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Well last year remember they had large chunks of concrete fall from the bridge. They said that the bridge is quite unstable....which leads to my next point:

I'd imagine if the situation was that dire, authorities in sue-happy America would shut that bridge down faster than you can say lawsuit. I'd imagine the bridge was sufficient for the traffic in the late 60s but people must have assumed that it would be replaced when traffic gets high enough to warrant a new bridge...which is what has happened now.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 8):
Something else that anyone not from the immediate area would wold probably be unaware of is......the BSB,(as well as the other bridges crossing the river at Cincinnati, are ALL in Kentucky, (and not in Ohio), because the state boundry line is the low-water line on the Ohio side of the river at "pool stage" in the summer months;

Stranger still is that the border between OH and KY is where the riverbank was when that law was passed. The river has shifted north in the past two centuries, and technically if you wade in the Ohio River knee deep you're still in Ohio. Maybe they should split funding similarly--85% Kentucky, 15% Ohio!  



A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Quoting N867DA (Reply 15):
Visited Cincinnati for the first time back in October, and I'd love to move up there. Some of you former Ohioans don't know how good you had it!

I fondly long for Skyline, LaRosas, Montgomery Inn, Yuengling, and craft brews 

As much as I hate CVG going under, many companies leaving Cincinnati, and my neighborhood going to the dogs, I do miss Cincinnati



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12564 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

Quoting N867DA (Reply 15):
Visited Cincinnati for the first time back in October, and I'd love to move up there. Some of you former Ohioans don't know how good you had it!

Not from the area, just spent a month there one week...

Quoting N867DA (Reply 15):
I'd imagine if the situation was that dire, authorities in sue-happy America would shut that bridge down faster than you can say lawsuit.

Maybe if the bridge was privately owned, but most lawyers will tell you that it's hard to win when the ones who built the bridge also built the courthouse.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
As part of the governors of Ohio and Kentucky's meeting today, which discussed the future of CVG Airport
(see thread about CVG here on this link.... )

They decided that the funding for the new Brent Spence Bridge project will be partially taken care of by tolls. This is being met with mixed reviews on both sides of the Ohio River, as people of low-income are starting to question how economical this will be for them.

I think the Ohians should have discussed why they put the airport on the Kentucky side of the river...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2852 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Quoting Geezer (Reply 8):
EVERY bridge crossing the Ohio between Pittsburgh and Cairo, Ill. has he'd very thorough inspections periodically as needed

That's why they're rushing to get this thing replaced.

So you're saying the bridge inspections showed that the BS was getting "crumbly" ?

Looks like the money spent on the inspections was well spent then !

(And I'm glad when I run over to Cincinnati now, I come in from Indiana on I-74 and don't have to cross the thing.)

Quoting N867DA (Reply 15):
The river has shifted north in the past two centuries,

Wait a minute............where on earth did you hear THAT ? If you were ever in downtown Cincinnati before about the 70's, (before they built the old Riverfront Stadium), there was a huge wide, cobblestone parking area between the street and the river, that they called "The Public Landing"; (where all of the River Boats used to tie up "way back in the day") Anyway, the public landing had been there about 150 years, and it's been gone now for at least 40 years; also......if you know where Anderson Ferry is at........(4 miles west of downtown on River Road).........I worked for Texaco right beside Anderson Ferry for 7 years back in the early 60's..........and on the north side of River Road is a VERY steep hillside that has been there a hell of a lot longer than any 200 years ! (More like 2,000 years !) So who ever told you that the Ohio River "shifted" north "about" 200 years ago, is seriously mis-informed ! Hell, the Army Corps Of Engineers has had mile by mile navigation charts of the Ohio river for probably 100 years, and it sure hasn't "shifted" any during that time.

Lets face it..........any place along the River in Cincinnati, when you wade out in the river from the Ohio side during summertime "pool" stage, when you get your knees wet, you're in Kentucky ! I boated on that river for YEARS ! I've seen Kentucky DNR guys give DOZENS of tickets to boaters that were 3 feet from the Ohio shore; and every boater who got a ticket always went to court, screaming......"But I was in Ohio !" Not one time did that "defense" ever work!

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2847 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 18):
So you're saying the bridge inspections showed that the BS was getting "crumbly" ?

Well they said in 2005 in a newspaper article they were beginning a study...Because i don't want to pay for an online archive, I cant find it  



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 19):
Well they said in 2005 in a newspaper article they were beginning a study...Because i don't want to pay for an online archive, I cant find it  

That would explain why I never noticed it; I "ran across" my fiancee' in 2002, corresponded with her till 2003, then decided to come and meet her; ( been "over here" in Indiana now for 10 years, have sold all but one of my Ohio properties along the line, but still legally live in BOTH states ); Fact: don't ever live in two states........it's a pain in the butt ! So next week when my registration is up on my vehicles, I'm going to register them in Indiana, (and will also be obliged to move my driver's license as well.) So much for Ohio...........I really like living here in Indiana about 10 times better than Cincinnati area; ( the traffic over there anymore is as bad as Chicago ! )

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently onlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2816 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 18):
Wait a minute............where on earth did you hear THAT ? If you were ever in downtown Cincinnati before about the 70's, (before they built the old Riverfront Stadium), there was a huge wide, cobblestone parking area between the street and the river, that they called "The Public Landing";
http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/444/335/case.html

The border is where the water was in 1792. The public landing (and wateres adjoining) are all part of the Buckeye State. I don't know how accurate it is, but if you follow the border around Cincinnati, you can see how the dashed line marking the state borders differs from the actual modern course of the river.



A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlineChese From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

I am not looking forward to tolls on that bridge. I imagine most would just take 471 bridge instead. The backups would be too much.


Note to airliners.net admins, I will not like you on Facebook.
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2781 times:

I have nothing to add other than that I read the thread title as "Cincinnati's New Brent Spence Bridge To Have Trolls", and I got strangely excited.


Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 23):
I have nothing to add other than that I read the thread title as "Cincinnati's New Brent Spence Bridge To Have Trolls", and I got strangely excited.

If you skip your toll payment, they'll jump from the depths of the Ohio River and throw your car all the way to the Big Mac Bridge  



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26501 posts, RR: 75
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 12 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
The Brent Spence Bridge is a collapse waiting to happen and has been functionally obsolete since its opening in the late 60s.

Sure, and the federal and state governments should make replacing it a priority.

Quoting PHX787 (Thread starter):
Opinions? Thoughts? Any advice from those who experienced tolls added to their local freeway?

Tolls are ridiculous for private passenger traffic. Germany has it right, by tolling commercial, heavy users and leaving the roads free for cars.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
The City wants to focus on "streetcars" to the poor neighborhoods that will probably bring more crime

That is a horribly antiquated way of thinking and has been shown to be complete nonsense.

Quoting cmf (Reply 7):
And why will it bring crime?

It won't.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
The city is forgoing additional police departments and forces, as well as an additional city jail, to stem the growing tide of crime in the city, in favor of building an unnecessary public works project.

One can easily argue that building more jails is also an unnecessary public works project. Trams, on the other hand, stimulate the economy.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
The problem we have in the Bay Area is that tolls continue to rise even though the bridges were long ago paid for.

Well, the new span of the Bay Bridge is certainly costing some money, and the Golden Gate is very costly to maintain (though, that cost is a drop in the bucket compared to its value).



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 26, posted (1 year 9 months 9 hours ago) and read 2513 times:
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Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
I think the Ohians should have discussed why they put the airport on the Kentucky side of the river...

Look up Lunken airport, or sunken lunken for a possible reason the have a CVG airport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Municipal_Lunken_Airport



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39887 posts, RR: 74
Reply 27, posted (1 year 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 2485 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
Many, myself included, are willing to pay to leave Cincinnati!

Things went downhill after WKRP went off air....

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
The problem we have in the Bay Area is that tolls continue to rise even though the bridges were long ago paid for.

  

Quoting N1120A (Reply 25):
Well, the new span of the Bay Bridge is certainly costing some money,

Everyone has to get their cut in those guv'ment projects.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 13):
Once you give them access to your pocket, they will never leave it.

So true.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 17):
I think the Ohians should have discussed why they put the airport on the Kentucky side of the river...

I rememeber riding down I-75 in 1982 in my uncle's 1980 Chrysler New Yorker Fifth Avenue and seeing a Delta DC-8 fly over. I was wondering, "why on earth is there an airport so far from Cinncinati out in the middle of the woods"?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 28, posted (1 year 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

Hey, Fly, I used to make two to three roundtrips/yr through Cincinatti on I75 (Nashville-Detroit) and remember seeing the flash of the AA (727, I think) that crashed at CVG one evening while I was approaching the river from the south. The bypass loop is terrible and I stick on 75 right through the city.

To (almost) topic; thanks for the link on Lunken, luv2fly. I didn't know Embry-Riddle started there. Mr Tally Embry was a neighbor when we lived in Coral Gables, FL. I remember we kids would occassionally stop to watch TV (the Embrys had the first color TV in the neighborhood. Sadly, his son "T", a school buddy, has since passed.

BTW, my last layover at CVG (a change of planes stop) was quite pleasant. Nice saloon, etc. and you could even have a smoke if so inclined, although that permission is probably long gone. regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
Things went downhill after WKRP went off air....

Every so often here in Cincy they have it on tv  
Quoting cptkrell (Reply 28):
Hey, Fly, I used to make two to three roundtrips/yr through Cincinatti on I75 (Nashville-Detroit) and remember seeing the flash of the AA (727, I think) that crashed at CVG one evening while I was approaching the river from the south. The bypass loop is terrible and I stick on 75 right through the city.

People are beginning to use 275 (bypass) nowadays because traffic on 75 going from downtown to Sharonville is absolutely atrocious.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 28):
BTW, my last layover at CVG (a change of planes stop) was quite pleasant. Nice saloon, etc. and you could even have a smoke if so inclined, although that permission is probably long gone. regards...jack

Smoke room indeed gone, but they put in an outback and a Panda express so it's still nice  



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
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