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NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really?  
User currently offlinetugger From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5342 times:

So the NRA made its big statement today:

In an impassioned speech, marking the NRA's first in-depth public comments since the Newtown tragedy, LaPierre pointed the finger not at gun proliferation but violent video games, the media and the absence of armed guards at schools.

He argued that if banks and members of Congress can have protection, schools across America should be afforded the same security.

"It's now time for us to assume responsibly for our schools," he said. "The only way to stop a monster from killing our kids is to be permanently involved and invested in a plan of absolute protection."

He added: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

Warning that the next mass killer could be "waiting in the wings," LaPierre urged immediate action to protect school children.

He said efforts over the years to pass laws for "gun-free school zones" have only told "every insane killer in America that schools are the safest place to inflict maximum mayhem with minimum risk."

He said that when it comes to America's children, "we as a society leave them, every day, utterly defenseless. ... That must change now."

LaPierre called for a national school security plan, including an appropriation from Congress for armed guards in every school. He tapped former Rep. Asa Hutchison, R-Ark., to lead the effort to develop the security plans, which would cover everything from building design to access control. There are nearly 100,000 public schools in America.

"Will you at least admit it's possible that ... 26 innocent lives might have been spared that day," he said, if the shooter had encountered "qualified armed security."
Also here: http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/21/us/con...hool-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

To be honest I don't get it, it just doesn't seem as "savvy" as the NRA has been known to be. I mean they had an entire week to come with this and they blame video games and "the media" and want armed guards in every school.

I would question why stop at schools, but I guess that plays into what they are perhaps actually seeking which is to essentially have every person in the USA be armed.


298 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5328 times:

Yeah, disappointed but not surprised. This is only a treat for the symptom and not the cause. I figured they'd come up with something at least halfway decent as an alternative to some of the other more strict measures.

I honestly think if they came up with something reasonable, the public might choose that over the AWB. But as this option and the AWB as the only two offers, I can see the AWB passing...

User currently offlineRussianJet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5328 times:

Did I read correctly that just at the point they started going on about better security, a protester burst in? Good job chaps, really good job.

User currently offlineEMBQA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
I would question why stop at schools, but I guess that plays into what they are perhaps actually seeking which is to essentially have every person in the USA be armed.

Maybe we just need the perception of that since over the last 20+ years nearly 100% of these mass shooting have happened in "Gun Free Zones" The only people reading and obeying those signs are the law-abiding citizen. All the criminal is thinking is that no one there will stop me.

[Edited 2012-12-21 10:50:50]

User currently offlineL-188 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5304 times:

Yes the fix is to fix the mental health system in this country, not banning guns.

but still the reaction by gun grabbers to this is why I have finally joined the NRA. Anybody else thinks Obummers "commission" is just a fraudulant attempt to reach a conc'uskonnhe has already come too?

User currently offlineogre727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
Yes the fix is to fix the mental health system in this country, not banning guns.

Or banning them until the mental health system is fixed perhaps is a happy medium???

User currently offlineluv2fly From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5270 times:
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I m always amazed with the spin the NRA can put on gun violence and deflect from the obvious. If guns are the problem, more guns can not be the solution. No offer to work towards a solution and or fix, deflect, deflect, deflect.

User currently offlinetugger From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5265 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
Yes the fix is to fix the mental health system in this country, not banning guns.

Would a tax (similar to other focused taxes for cigarettes and alcohol) that goes toward supporting mental health services and perhaps the medical costs of guns be supportable? I am thinking many would scream bloody murder about "more taxes" but I think it could be a good idea that could actually do something.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
but still the reaction by gun grabbers to this is why I have finally joined the NRA. Anybody else thinks Obummers "commission" is just a fraudulant attempt to reach a conc'uskonnhe has already come too?

No I don't. And that comes from the fact the Obama appointed Simpson-Bowles commission didn't come to a conclusion that anybody in politics liked which means it was actually a good and reasoned conclusion.

(And also, name calling BS is silly and childish and not conducive to good conversation nor does it present the argument the person doing the name calling in a favorable light.)


[Edited 2012-12-21 11:10:48]

User currently offlineHoMsaR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

Ignoring the many obvious flaws with the idea of having more guns in a school with kindergarteners and whatnot, who's going to pay for this?

In general, those whose politics make them most favorable to the NRA are also those who are most reluctant (to be kindly) to put any kind of money into our education system.

User currently offlinemt99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5229 times:
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Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
Yes the fix is to fix the mental health system in this country,

That takes Tax dollars.

I think the solution is giving all 5 years guns. If those kids would have been able to defend themselves..

User currently offlineAirframeAS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5220 times:

Quoting HoMsaR (Reply 8):
Ignoring the many obvious flaws with the idea of having more guns in a school with kindergarteners and whatnot, who's going to pay for this?

I'm a huge advocate of arming teachers in schools rather hiring one guard in each and every school in this country. It's cheaper and more teachers would be armed vs. only one guard. It's quite easy for a gunman to take out the hired guard then go havoc on the rest if the school.

In my opinion, having armed teachers, like what one Texas school district is doing, is much, much better.


User currently offlinemt99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5219 times:
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Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
In my opinion, having armed teachers, like what one Texas school district is doing, is much, much better.

What if a teacher doesn't want to be armed?

User currently offlineWolbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5215 times:

That was a completely surreal statement. At this stage you have to wonder who are more detached from reality, the Westboro Baptist Church or the NRA?

User currently offlineluv2fly From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5207 times:
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Quoting mt99 (Reply 11):
What if a teacher doesn't want to be armed?
Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
In my opinion, having armed teachers, like what one Texas school district is doing, is much, much better.

The shooters Mother was a teacher, tell me again how that worked out for us having her be a gun owner!

User currently offlineBN747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5206 times:

Okay, so armed men in every school: check!

How about the movie theatre shooting? Okay, armed men in every theatre: check!

How about the supermarket shooting? Okay, armed men in every supermarket: check! How 'bout the Fort Hood shooting? ...okay, armed men on every military base: check... hey, wait a minute!

Seriously, if this is the way the NRA wants it...

The NRA pays for it. Cops at every school, your idea ... you pay.

Or to pay for cops at every school...levy a taxi on every gun owner, saayyy... an Annual Gun Fee of $1200 per registered gun owner per weapon!


User currently offlineairontario From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5199 times:

So by extension would the world be a safer place if every country had Nuclear missiles as well?

User currently offlineroswell41 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5198 times:

I think the NRA's idea is an interesting one. Why don't we harden schools much like we harden banks and airports? Aren't our children important and valuable enough? Honestly, with the fiscal cliff and the Christmas/New Years holidays, I think the uproar from the shooting will be short lived much like Aurora. Most of the news coverage is decreasing even on networks like MSNBC. If this had happened at a different time of year, maybe the anti-gun crowd would have a greater chance of success. In the meantime, the NRA is collecting tons of donations and firearms are flying off the the shelves. Those of us who value our 2nd Amendment rights are writing our government officials and we are politicially active and donate money to our causes. I support the NRA proposal. It makes far more sense than the so-called AWB.

User currently offlineKBJCpilot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5186 times:

A simple tax of 2 cents per bullet would fund mental health across this country. Or it would fund two National Guard soldiers at every elementary and middle school.

I'd pay the tax if it meant a safer society.

User currently offlineL-188 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5168 times:


You realize your tax idea would cost ne iver fifty grand a year?

Forget it!

Oh and i and everybody who spent time in the service can tell you have no idea about weapons security at a military base.nobody except the civilian cops and MO's on duty where packing.....save for the shooter....funny how all these incidents happen in gun free zones eh?

User currently offlineBraybuddy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5167 times:

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
He added: "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

So where were all the "good guys with guns" when all these multiple murders have occurred? Sitting at home bragging about their arsenal?

I don't understand why people like to lay the blame on mental health. An angry, testosterone-fuelled teenage male doesn't need to be insane to let fly at anyone, not least when he has a loaded weapon in his hand.

User currently offlineL-188 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5159 times:

Actually Braybuddy their weapons where left at home because that school was a gun free zone and they where respecting the law.

Funny how only the shooters/criminals seem to ignore those laws

Edit....he wasnt a teenage he was twenty and from what i have read seems to have lead a very smothered life being protected by his mother. This lack of socialization seems to have caused him not to have the ability toi deal with society

But i am not a shrink

[Edited 2012-12-21 12:11:44]

User currently offlinemt99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5156 times:
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Quoting L-188 (Reply 20):
Actually Braybuddy their weapons where left at home because that school was a gun free zone and they where respecting the law.

Is that a fact? can you prove it?

Name 1 person who was at the school that has said: "if i only had my gun..."

User currently offlineBN747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5154 times:

Quoting roswell41 (Reply 16):
I think the NRA's idea is an interesting one. Why don't we harden schools much like we harden banks and airports? Aren't our children important and valuable enough?
Quoting KBJCpilot (Reply 17):

I'd pay the tax if it meant a safer society.

We non-gun owners should NOT have to pay for gun owners adamant over-the-top attitudes over the 2nd amendment...they need to figure out away to police themselves (as Mr. NRA is suggesting -without shouldering cost so far) or let us do it for them.


User currently offlineKen777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5148 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 3):

Yes the fix is to fix the mental health system in this country, not banning guns.

I believe that the ability (authority) to do so in place but it's clear that the GOP isn't going to allow funding or actual operations at a national level. That's not on the Tea Party Approved List of Government Spending.

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 6):
I m always amazed with the spin the NRA can put on gun violence and deflect from the obvious.

I'm not. It's about money, which puts the Second Amendment way down the list of importance for the NRA.

User currently offlineL-188 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5150 times:

You can look up the law that says schools are gun free zones yourself MT99

And yes it is a law

25 mt99 : I did not ask for that. I asked you to prove that there was at least 1 person at Sandy Hook, who would have otherwise had gun in his/her possession i
26 roswell41 : Gun-free zones aren't really gun-free unless you have access control and administrative searches of all persons and property entering the building. Ex
27 KBJCpilot : OK Mr. Overreaction, if you had read my entire post I said We would pay for your pacifist society with a bullet tax.
28 mt99 : Awsome.. convince this guy:
29 brilondon : So why don't we teach the 5 and 6 year old children how to properly handle a gun, then maybe one the child who knew karate would have been able to sh
30 Pu : Do you have any idea how far in the opposite direction you are going with ideas like this compared to the rest of the first world - which has almost
31 roswell41 : People made similar criticisms about arming pilots. Well, we as a country, decided it was worth the risk and it has been a success for going on ten ye
32 Post contains links Polot : Money is a big issue though. There were approximately 618,660 registered pilots in the US in 2011, with a vast majority of those being student and pr
33 fr8mech : You make the assumption that guns are the problem. And, in what world do you live in where out beloved leaders will willingly return power to the peo
34 tugger : Pilots are in a closed, limited access space. The gun is kept secure in the cockpit. The passengers are all screened. It is an entirely different sit
35 BN747 : I've fired about everything from a .35 to M60 and grenade launchers while doing 4 years...talk the wall. Yes, many people have expensive hobbies, som
36 RussianJet : Or is it possible that many people for perfectly sane reasons think that a school should not need to be stuffed full of guns in a healthy society? Ma
37 L-188 : My hobby has never cost anybody their lives. Rabbits an ptarmigan yes, but not deer, caribou, moose or any other game animals yet. And people..... Not
38 Post contains images Ken777 : The NRA School Crossing Guard?
39 fr8mech : A parent would be irresponsible not to teach the children in the home proper gun handling. Of course, the proper handling of a firearm by just about
40 Revelation : Guns are the problem not the solution. No guns, no shootings. In Newtown the shooter had body armor, the AR, and more clips than he could shoot throu
41 Post contains links fr8mech : "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." Lest you misunderstand me...anytime a law or regulation is written, our li
42 roswell41 : Those saying that guns are the problem have a naive and simplistic view of the world. Most mass shooters are cowards and target helpless people. They
43 mt99 : But that can be changed!. The constitution CAN be amended. It can be amended to ban gay marriage, abortion, citizenship rights to kids born on US soi
44 L-188 : RiGht on Roswell41..........right on! Attack thecreal problem.....mental illness
45 Post contains images mt99 : And lets pay for it by borrowing money from China!! Yea !!
46 L-188 : Money from china? What has that got to do with this subject? I would rather see us stop giving away money to countries thst should be borrowing it the
47 Ken777 : The problem with arming teachers & administrators is how they would respond in a battle at school. Train them all you want, but when they are put
48 mt99 : Where you sleeping during the election campaign? Every cent the government spends is borrowed from China. How else would you pay to help all the ment
49 iFlyLOTs : Well you said a new tax on bullets would cost you $50k a year, so that probably means your against it, so how else pay for it than money from China?
50 DeltaMD90 : Look, I love shooting as a hobby, and it kills me to say it, but Pu is right... look at our violence compared to everyone else's... it has nothing to
51 StarAC17 : If taxes go up in that district to give the teachers police level firearm training then whatever works I think that applies to the eariler posted reg
52 Post contains links roswell41 : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...han-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html While we have more murders per capita than the U.K., they have a worse probl
53 BN747 : Say that with a straight face looking at the complete agregate of Global Violence. Child soldiers in central Asia and Africa with guns - it's not the
54 Revelation : Thanks for the selective quoting. The context is to maintain a militia, which of course is to support the government, not defend itself from the gove
55 wingman : Must stay calm, yet so difficult n the face of such absolutely incredible positions stated by inflexible NRA bots. Just to rehash some of the finer po
56 roswell41 : Adam Lanza without a gun would be Timothy McVeigh or the Unibomber. After reading some comments on here, I'm convinced many on here have never been ed
57 Ken777 : Don't worry about the far left. Or the far right. Where you need to look is moderates in the middle. We are not looking to cancel the Second Amendmen
58 Pu : Guns don't get banned, they get controlled, and you only need look to Europe and Australia to see what happens when guns get controlled. Europe, Aust
59 Revelation : Might have something to do with Aurora, VA Tech, etc? IMHO their ideas are nonsensical. Yes, if you read the documents, the context of Militia is alw
60 DeltaMD90 : I see where you are going, but this is a terrible example. Believe it or not, guns are way more restricted on military bases than practically anywher
61 luv2fly : We gun owners need to strike a balance that reduces violence and preserves rights... I wish you were the voice of the NRA.
62 GDB : Yes, funny that. And when the cops do arrive they'll see an armed person, who is not a cop, when they have been called out to deal with an armed pers
63 dragon-wings : I didn't read all the replys in this thread so if it was mentioned already I am sorry, but I wonder if Mr LaPierre knows that Columbine had armed guar
64 Post contains links luv2fly : "Instead of offering solutions to a problem they have helped create, they offered a paranoid, dystopian vision of a more dangerous and violent America
65 MSPNWA : Not surprising that I don't much agree with the comprising NRA's statement. I believe there needs to be the possiblity of an armed presence at schools
66 roswell41 : I know you think you mean well and all, but I'm glad you don't work for the NRA. The side you would be negotiating with, the left and so-called 'mode
67 Post contains images scbriml : Standard NRA BS response. Guns are not the problem, the solution is more guns. Are you serious? If that's the solution, then your society is fucked be
68 HoMsaR : Carry. So, you're saying that we should have teachers carry guns on their waists while helping teach a second grader how to read? Or, as others have
69 Revelation : Apparently the NRA feels that is the natural order of things, that we should all be armed to the teeth from cradle to grave and be prepared for gun b
70 Post contains links mt99 : NRA wants our TAX dollars to pay for this craziness. Where is Grover Norquisk? Where is the Tea Party? "He urged Congress “to appropriate whatever
71 usflyer msp : I am sorry but that is the dumbest idea I have heard in a while. I don't know why these pro-gun people keep going there. My mom is a kindergarten tea
72 Ken777 : I've seen a few clips of the VRA dude - the one with the really bad combover hair do. All I can do is hope that pubic reaction to this guy is so stron
73 seb146 : So, the answer to gun violence is more guns? Really? More guns didn't help stop the gunman in Portland a few weeks ago. There were armed guards at Col
74 EA CO AS : He was protesting, not opening fire. Kind of a big difference, don't you think? Spare me. Most law-abiding people would see the sign and say, "Ok, gu
75 Post contains links fr8mech : Please point to any amendment that has banned an action by The People. There is only one, and it was repealed. Any Amendment that restricts The Peopl
76 Revelation : I'm not sure where you are going with this. Banning sales of assault rifles and large capacity clips is not taking away a right any more so than bann
77 Post contains images cmf : That is not the claim made by those wanting gun control. They know the problem is peoples interaction with guns. Why the rewrite? Reality check, mass
78 EA CO AS : I don't know if you read the quote from BN that I was replying to, but going further up in the thread and seeing his posts you'd see that his argumen
79 BN747 : Man o' man,,, no gun owner wants to look at the Huffington Post front page right now... BN747
80 L-188 : Why would any sane person ever look at the huffington post. It's a crap "paper" with crap reporting and a strong liberal/socialist biased....ever wors
81 fr8mech : My point is that there are so many firearms out there that any action short of out-right door-to-door confiscation (in violation of the 2nd, 4th &
82 cmf : Look at how things are today and it is clear that after the fact doesn't work. Demonstrate how to do it before people are injured and killed and we a
83 DeltaMD90 : I realize this but I'm not gonna argue something I think is wrong just because "it may lead to something I don't like." I don't operate that way. I s
84 Braybuddy : While there is evidence to show that Adam Lanza may have had mental health problems, not everyone who goes on a killing spree does. And how do you pr
85 seb146 : To balance the insanity from FOX. If the NRA can *DEMAND* the government find money for armed security at every single school, I think we should, fir
86 2707200X : I think the NRA statement would have meant something if massacre enabler Wayne LaPierre actually cared more about the people who died from the Sandy H
87 Flighty : Our schools spend as much money, or more, per pupil as any school system worldwide... I'd rather we concentrate on making teaching a meritocracy. The
88 jamincan : Looking at this from outside the US is strange. It is like some sort of Cold War arms race where the only solution to guns is more guns. Peace and sec
89 FlyDeltaJets : The NRA statement is crazy to me. A person with a gun at the school door is only a deterrent to a person that will actually think about thier actions.
90 HoMsaR : Which is interesting, since, statistically, violent crime in the US has been on a declining trend since the early 1990s. The nationwide homicide rate
91 Ken777 : I guess those6 and 7 year old kids really didn't have rights. At least the big boy rights for those wanting to have their guns. Into a bank? How abou
92 Revelation : Right, but door-to-door confiscation will drive the NRA types into visions of the End of Days, so it will not happen. Stopping sales of assault weapo
93 fr8mech : Deterrence is only part of it. Response is the other part. Coincidentally, the early 90's is when states began loosening restrictions on gun ownershi
94 usflyer msp : There is a big difference between you and the average teacher. Where is a teacher going to conceal a weapon on their body. Most female cops have trou
95 RussianJet : Sure. Still deliciously ironic.
96 seb146 : Which is why teachers making $30,000 a year have to buy supplies for their classes, we have over crowded classes, old computers, etc. etc. etc...
97 AirframeAS : Then that teacher has a right not to be armed. It's their choice. We didn't know that until AFTER the fact. I don't see how this is relevant. Ganging
98 fr8mech : I volunteer plenty of time in the classroom, every year. I know my children's teachers and the administrators. I taught Junior Achievment to children
99 cmf : How do you eat an elephant? You got to start somewhere. Certainly no make it worse. Calling banning the goal is equal to stating that everyone owning
100 mal787 : An outsiders point of view here. Watching Sky news this morning in Australia , and a guy was giving a speach saying " if the schools had armed gaurds,
101 cptkrell : Against my better judgement, I'll weigh in. How many of you posters actually watched Wayne LaPierre's press conference? How many of you watched Fox's
102 cmf : Considering she was the owner of those guns I find it very hard to not hold her responsible for him getting hold of them. 1) You do not speak for all
103 greaser : Columbine had an armed guard, and that certainly did not stop the massacre. That will always be the case. But escalation is an easy answer, just not
104 fr8mech : Actually, I have the utmost respect for the property rights of others, but I have more respect for my right to defend myself. So long as I'm not brea
105 Post contains links fr8mech : You know, suddenly, I'm reading this. Never heard of this armed guard. No mention of him here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbine_High_School_mas
106 kiwirob : This is what I don't get, this is an amendment to the constitution, as such it should be fairly easy to amend the amendment, it's not written in ston
107 fr8mech : Actually, it is very difficult to amend The Constitution, as it should be. Else, we would amend it based on emotions, rather than sound rationale.
108 flyingclrs727 : It's extremely difficult to amend the US Constitution. It takes a 2/3 vote by the House and a 2/3 vote by the Senate to propose an amendment and send
109 flymia : Federal Air Marshall's will most likely never need to fire their weapon. The one time they have, at least in recent times the shot was dead on. It's
110 FlyDeltaJets : It is a problem that is severe in the US. of that list find even 5 more incidents of similar scale in each of those countries.
111 fr8mech : Any chance of providing a copy of the paper?
112 Mir : This is what this really boils down to. If the NRA is going to push the idea that we can only be safe by turning our schools into fortresses, good lu
113 NoUFO : Next could be hospitals. Lots of "lying ducks" there. Or restaurants: "We have an armed guard here, so enjoy your meal ... and better don't forget to
114 BN747 : Well certainly not the type of character who goes around PM'ing people that he knows do not care for him asking 'if he is a nazi' - that is indeed di
115 Post contains images AirframeAS : I never said I did. Let me ask you all this: What are you going to do if a gunman comes into the crowded place you're at with pistols and rifles, sho
116 Post contains links AKiss20 : http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/DEPUTIES_TEXT.htm
117 luv2fly : She had a child with known mental problems and she still had guns in the house. If that is not irresponsible I don't know what is. Wait we do know th
118 Cerecl : By tightening gun ownership and restricting/banning the sale of assault/military grade weapons there would be less of this type of incidents to begin
119 BN747 : I don't know a bug deal is..but even you cannot name a situation in history where your example has happened. People (including YOU) are easily fright
120 TheCommodore : She also had mental issues. The woman believed the end of the world (or the US) was imminent, and was stockpiling food and provisions in the house. A
121 GDB : Bitterly ironic that the mother of the mass killer, was so paranoid herself she had that arsenal on weapons against - whatever was in her head, was ki
122 Revelation : Indeed many gun owners see themselves as a superior grade of human being whose superior preparation and training will save the day. Too bad they wast
123 brilondon : Taking a long, tired, out of context quote just shows how antiquated and uninformed that line of thinking is. This is the thinking of the NRA. That o
124 ltbewr : The statement of the NRA president on Friday has to be one of the worst public relations 'fails' I can remember, indeed, they literally shot themselve
125 Post contains links HoMsaR : Yes, coincidentally. At least, according to this paper, anyway: http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levi...evittUnderstandingWhyCrime2004.pdf Long story
126 tugger : Actually there is evidence that the reduction in crime is connected to the Roe v. Wade decision and the ability for women to control when and who's c
127 HoMsaR : Indeed. See the paper that I linked to above in response to fr8mech's same comment.
128 seb146 : Or, take some of that money in foreign aid to pay for more teachers? +1 I grew up in Oregon. Trust me, I know the stupid sh*t they spend money on. Ho
129 Mir : Require registration of them by a certain date. Match them to their current owner by serial number (or other identifying information). And for those
130 Post contains links luv2fly : Great article on yahoo pointing out failed facts from the recent NRa fail. http://news.yahoo.com/fact-checking-...ra-press-conference-185542748.html
131 BN747 : Perhaps I should be a bit more clear on this. First off, all criminals don't fall into one single category. You have petty thugs, gangsters and nicke
132 mdsh00 : There was another major factor which was the decline of the Crack Epidemic of the 80s which made such an impact in the inner cities. It was just arou
133 Post contains links Ken777 : You need to remember that McVey wanted to do more damage than a handful of automatic assault rifles could do. You also need to remember that this pat
134 kiwirob : Unless the cop was right where the shooting was talking place they would have ZERO impact on a school massacre. I don't know how big the average scho
135 Maverick623 : That would go over only slightly more well than a total ban... and would have done NOTHING to stop Sandy Hook.
136 HoMsaR : I've lived in some pretty rough neighborhoods, and taken the bus late at night through some other such places. Only once did I see some random thug j
137 BN747 : I still do go into these areas (South Central LA)... and places where many of my peers dare not venture. I do know how they (hood thuds) think why th
138 Mir : Which is a sign that the gun lobby has lost their sanity. This is about more than Sandy Hook. As tragic as Sandy Hook was, it was 27 people, and that
139 Maverick623 : No, it means the anti-gun lobby has. That worked out so well for Fast and Furious.... Also, it's crazy to think that a criminal who has broken one gu
140 Post contains links Mir : If you can't see the wide difference between a registration program and an outright ban, that's a problem. A registration database would let legal gu
141 StarAC17 : It is much more prevalent in the US than in other industrial countries. Yes there have been mass shootings in Canada and other rich countries but I c
142 Post contains links GDB : More on the NRA chief and a piece on the wider picture; (While of course there will be a lobbyist group for gun owners, the NRA though, reinforced by
143 EA CO AS : What happened to those kids is beyond tragic, but again, stripping rights from 99.9999% percent of the population because 0.0001% of the population c
144 BN747 : But my view does not pose the escalating threat as your views and that of the NRA. I see, you're one of those unique types who think criminals actual
145 cerecl : AS far as I can see, the current focus is not to strip your right to carry guns, it is about banning the sale of military grade weapons. One has to r
146 EA CO AS : Your perception is irrelevant. You do not have the right to rescind my rights because you disagree with them. If you can't understand that, there's n
147 EA CO AS : You haven't been reading BN's posts; he's advocating that access to ALL firearms be restricted.
148 FlyDeltaJets : I don't see how anyone could be against gun registration. It not only allows you to keep your guns but instills the "self-responsibility" gun owners s
149 seb146 : Woah, woah, woah... Both of you take it down a notch. These are all just hypothetical, first off. Second, NRA will do everything in their power to ke
150 Post contains images AirframeAS : Because we cannot come to a mutual agreement or a solution to the "gun" debate before and after all the mudslinging, name calling and disrespect towar
151 seb146 : So she did not teach him well. That is: every *life* is sacred. There is a grey area about life. But, she did not teach him about life being precious
152 L-188 : AirframeAS is right on a couple of accounts. 1. Shooting is fun. 2. Most of the anti-gun folks responding here are advocates of total bans 3.the shoot
153 Mir : So far, the message I've heard from the pro-gun crowd (including some on this thread) boils down to "kids getting shot in schools is going to happen,
154 FlyDeltaJets : I don't think that registration would be such a bad idea. Who does it harm to ensure that all firearms have a registered owner. There are cities that
155 EA CO AS : If that's what you're hearing in this thread, you haven't been paying attention. Go back and re-read it from start to finish and you'll see how wildl
156 seb146 : I think this thread is actually good. Not much "no, you are an idiot" in here. I think there has been a very good exchange of ideas. That could be wh
157 L-188 : Seb, let me ask a questIon, registration means in this day and age a database, electronic type. With the lack of data security in this day and age how
158 seb146 : What I find interesting is that, more often than not, private corporations like BofA and FB and amazon.com are getting hacked and not doing much abou
159 L-188 : Well I am not so sure about that, but I will concede the government lacks a profit motive to downplay the effects of a breech. But I think you can see
160 YVRLTN : I agree. but how many years or decades will that take? Meanwhile make it harder for nutjobs to get guns and your rights or hobby will not be affected
161 yyz717 : Wow, well.....we have video games here in Canada, and no armed guards at schools, and yet, we don't have children being shot. How would hte NRA expla
162 Mir : "Put more guns in schools" (the prevailing sentiment on the thread among gun advocates, and of course the idea espoused by the NRA) is just another w
163 L-188 : Only if the person is home and has access to them. Otherwise you wait nil they go out for the evening.
164 tugger : The absolute stupidest thing about the NRA statement is they forever (and still) claim that "guns don't kill people" but here they are blaming video
165 kiwirob : As far as I can tell nobody has a problem registering their motorvehicles, even collectors who own dozens of them, when you sell or trade it you also
166 RussianJet : That's a nice theory, but there are a hell of a lot of 20-year-olds that hardly behave like adults. Is there something magic about those two years be
167 Post contains images EA CO AS : Nice-lookin' straw-man you've built there. No, we don't have that. Those are your words, and they're driven by your desire to frame the debate on tho
168 flipdewaf : lol, maybe get g4s on the job would be better. haha, answering this one might be difficult. strange? seems totally logical to me but EA CO AS, tell u
169 FlyDeltaJets : There are no such things as guarantees in life we all know that. The DMV manages to keep the data about your car pretty safe, especially since the nu
170 EA CO AS : First off, can you tell me which amendment to the U.S. Constitution deals with car ownership? I don't necessarily think registration of firearms is "
171 kiwirob : That's just daft, a registration fee should be a one off charge, a change of ownership fee would be mandatory, however assault weapons should be limi
172 FlyDeltaJets : The point of registration should not be a deterring factor except for those that rather have no means of tracking firearms. Other than a the fee that
173 Post contains links n318ea : President Clinton proposed the almost the same thing as the NRA on the anniversary of Columbine. http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
174 fr8mech : Hmmm, surprised this hasn't been locked and archived yet. How is it intimidation? I don't go in there waving my gun around. I don't charge into the ma
175 Post contains images kiwirob : Ah don't you get it, you would have to register the weapon upon purchase, no registration, no purchase, simple.
176 L-188 : So, what is to prevent gangs from manufacturing these weapons? Just like pot or meth? Most military weapons where designed to be manufactured with bas
177 BN747 : Someone has problems with the concept of hypotheticals..ignore him// The only thing to be understood is ..what hypothetical means. Criminals and crim
178 kiwirob : It'd be illegal and if caught in your possession you'd get into serious trouble, would you want to shoot a homemade weapon? What's so difficult to un
179 Post contains links JakeOrion : That in reality, criminals simply do not care about laws. http://tinyurl.com/cw5sls5 http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/557.html Gun co
180 Post contains images cmf : That is great but how do we catch them in time? And what do we do about the bigger problems? As horrible as mass murders are they are a tiny fraction
181 itsjustme : Maybe not immediately but I can guarantee it will result in law enforcement taking a closer look at that neighbor using pre-warrant means like survei
182 kiwirob : Or he would probably have thought I'll get me a plod as well, a challenge for the aspiring shooter.
183 Pu : Besides all the other arguments, a basic reason why this is a Right versus Left issue is the standard Right view that the individual rights trump the
184 Post contains images EA CO AS : Only ones that are so ridiculously outside the realm of possibility that spending time considering them is a waste of my time. Nice try at clouding t
185 BN747 : Since you have been reading my post... ..why is it you went all ape over the 'Total Gun Ban America' hypothetical (and took it as emphatic expressed
186 EA CO AS : The "Total Gun Ban" hypothetical you posed in reply 119 was followed up with your glowing, Pollyannaesque predictions: Based on your words above, it'
187 BN747 : Given the two hypotheticals - Total Gun Ban America VS Totally Armed America I wholeheartedly favor the former..no question about it. And favor the l
188 fr8mech : Let's take the step: do you advocate that a private citizen, when transferring a firearm, take on the legal duty for ensuring that a potential purcha
189 luv2fly : Having been a Victim of gun violence not once but twice. I would like to see and enforced tougher laws when it does to certain types of guns. Though b
190 Post contains links Pu : That's the part that is factually invalid. Gun owners and gun carriers are more likely to be killed by guns than the unarmed -and- states with higher
191 brilondon : I get that what needs to happen is a change in mindset in the US. I have read every post and am shocked and dismayed at what I have read. You need to
192 cerecl : So you are OK with banning assault weapons? If so, then we are going somewhere. Clearly, banning all firearm is unrealistic at this stage. However, d
193 itsjustme : The U.S. has become an extremely violent society. I've seen 13 year old kids left laying dead on a sidewalk, shot to death over a pair of $100 Adidas
194 BMI727 : Oh, yes there is. First, let's establish that the NRA narrative that guns save lives and that there needs to be armed guards everywhere is a steaming
195 FlyDeltaJets : No gun control like we currently have in the US is ineffective. We create situations like Chicago and NY by having a small section with tough laws su
196 seb146 : Really? So, show me exactly where in the United States Constitution it gives us the right to own a cache of automantic weapons "just cuz". No, of cou
197 itsjustme : I mistakenly omitted the word "sensible" between the words "no" and "need" in my post. It should have read, there is no 'sensible" need for John Q Pu
198 BMI727 : Show me where in the Constitution is says that data your car records belongs to you. I don't think so either, hence I don't own a weapon or even cons
199 Post contains images Aaron747 : A valid point. Though the fact remains one might have to justify something to other male friends who are not members of the tiny wang club. This is t
200 seb146 : But that didn't answer my question. DMV is a state by state section. Has nothing to do with the Bill of Rights. Unlike "A well regulated militia" in
201 FlyDeltaJets : Canada has urban areas as well that has violence just like the US has suburban areas that there is "ostensibly zero danger". Having registration of g
202 itsjustme : Yes, I get that people like to shoot assault rifles. Not exactly my "thing" but I probably have likes that others may see as odd as well. I have no p
203 kiwirob : But you can't buy everything you like, drugs aren't available legally, you can't buy kiddie porn at the corner shop, there are all sorts of things th
204 seb146 : I know that and you know that. But, NRA believes it is against the law. What I and may of us still want to know is: what about mental health? There w
205 Post contains links BMI727 : There are already laws (and basic procedure) that seeks to handle that. Even in a place where it's legal, you can expect to get some questions from l
206 Aaron747 : A couple of bad corners of Vancouver and Toronto is not anywhere near the same as what we have in the states. Talk to anyone from Miami to Houston to
207 scbriml : Not when it comes to guns. There are already restrictions on what types of weapons you, as an American citizen, can and cannot buy. So why shouldn't
208 BMI727 : My neighbor or the guy across town having a gun, whether a pistol or an assault rifle, does not infringe upon my rights. If he comes to threaten me o
209 Aaron747 : It's illogical to want to simply "reduce the deaths from such incidents". It makes far more sense to actually reduce the number of such incidents com
210 MD11Engineer : I think the NRA HAS to accept minimum standards of gun control or else they´ll become irrelevant. This means a way of keeping guns out of undesirable
211 ltbewr : The appearance of the NRA president on 'Meet the Press', showed him just doubling down their cops in every school idea and to me just shows their cont
212 fr8mech : Just like sky-divers are more likely to be killed in a sky-diving accident than non-sky-divers. And, yes, I did read the summaries. The FBI disagrees
213 Darksnowynight : Please understand that while your point is valid, make no mistake, there are plenty of us on the inside looking in too that are fed up with this nons
214 scbriml : It's not a different story, it's a completely different issue. There are weapons that American citizens cannot buy today. There is no reason that lar
215 Post contains links BN747 : Several Firefighters Shot While Responding To House Fire http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...s-shot-webster-fire_n_2358822.html This is the type of
216 Dreadnought : Correct. Everyone is blaming the cutlery industry for the high obesity rate in the US. We must ban spoons, so that you can't shovel food in your mout
217 Post contains links cmf : Your objection is void since they do infringe on others rights. This is the said state of affairs. Sadly it is happening in many parts of the world.
218 MD11Engineer : Well, one thing you´ll have to pass before you´ll get a gun licence over here is a gun safety course. I think this is part of the minimum requireme
219 itsjustme : What does the ETA of the nearest cop have to do with the need for an AR-14? Seeing as you didn't elaborate, I will have to assume you're correlating
220 TheCommodore : Then you must have a lot of assholes in the US ! Sorry but I couldn't let this pass without replying... Really, if that's the reason, then the US nee
221 MD11Engineer : I could see a use in a post-Kathrina scenario, where police was simply not available and neighbourhoods were terrorized by armed gangs of looters in
222 cmf : I want safety classes and I want safety classes worth something. In Florida they advertise a two hour class that include filling out the permit and o
223 MD11Engineer : IIRC the classes here take a whole weekend. Jan
224 windy95 : No. No Obamacare. Your idea you pay. How about an anuual fee to everyone who voted for Obama And I should not have to pay for your over the top wealt
225 Dreadnought : The government does not have the right to do that. They can regulate you carrying it around in public, but not the ownership of a gun. Here's an idea
226 L-188 : Unfortunately Dereadnaught schools that had programs like that had to drop those programs when gun free school legislation was past. My mom's high sch
227 cmf : Florida has 10 - 20 - Life. People are plenty happy using guns....
228 Post contains links itsjustme : The police weren't available post-Katrina because they were too busy looting Walmart stores http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmQW6xLECUU
229 kiwirob : Freaking amazing, hope that those cops are out of the job.
230 seb146 : Why, then, when I moved to California, did I have to go to a California DMV to get a licence? According to you, I would be able to just get a change
231 BMI727 : Because they want to own one, period. That's it. And in a free society, that reason carries a much weight as any. It would also be unconstitutional.
232 petertenthije : That surely can't be the best reason. You can't own slaves, no matter how much you wanted to. You can't own nukes, no matter how much you wanted to.
233 Maverick623 : Where did I say anything about going back in time? The simple fact is, the guns used were owned legally, and even if a registration requirement were
234 Post contains links itsjustme : Really? How so? Why is it that not too long ago, the typical duty weapon for a police officer was a Smith and Wesson Model 66 with a couple of speed
235 Post contains images Mir : The 5th. "[No person shall] be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law" A car is property. Owning a car is not the same as
236 Post contains images BMI727 : Because you didn't read my post or get the point at all. Try again. It is the best reason. And when freedom means something, it's the only reason any
237 Dreadnought : I can't argue with that. We are blessed with an abundance of them. Which calls into question a lot of our current gun control laws, never mind propos
238 EA CO AS : Why does a family "need" an SUV when a minivan would suffice? Why does a family "need" to go to the Caribbean for their vacation when a drive to the
239 petertenthije : Why? Nukes don't kill people... people with access to nukes kill people!
240 cmf : You carrying loaded weapons in public spaces infringes on my rights of safety. And the time it takes to reload provide opportunities to get out or po
241 Post contains images scbriml : Wait, it would be unconstitutional to eradicate gun massacres? I think you've misread what I wrote. So who do the grieving parents of Newtown get to
242 Post contains images StarAC17 : Compare Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, Sydney and Melbourne to Chicago or DC all of very similar size and then compare London or Tokyo to NY and you w
243 Maverick623 : I most surely can. Funny how soon history is forgotten... People are not property. Invalid comparison. Because not only is there no practical, peacef
244 Post contains images TheCommodore : You cant have everything in life ! At the time of slavery, they were "owned" and they were the property of the of the land holder, with No rights ! S
245 BMI727 : Radiation from radioactive materials can. And again, it's largely an issue of classified material. You cannot build such a thing without stealing or
246 StarAC17 : It was enough time in Tuscon to get the shooter subdued. Bingo and saying that it has to mandatory for the guns how and private sale loopholes to be
247 Post contains images scbriml : It may be currently, but that wasn't even what I was suggesting. There's no reason that gun ownership shouldn't be harder or better controlled. Despi
248 BMI727 : That's fine, but you have to be careful to avoid the creation of de facto gun cartels by having to go through some sort of certified dealer. I'm natu
249 DeltaMD90 : Come on people... I am seeing some crazy talk from both sides of the aisle here. I've said some things already, no need to repeat, but I think some ne
250 Aaron747 : It is both a political and practical impossibility, for all intents and purposes. America is not ready to seriously tackle urban drug trade violence,
251 EA CO AS : If something is legal to own and I have the means by which to acquire it, who are you to tell me I can't have it?
252 itsjustme : U.S. Supreme Court Justice Scalia disagrees with you. In District of Columbia v. Heller, Scalia wrote concerning the entirety of the elements of the
253 Dreadnought : When you devalue a currency, all those who have negative net worth - who owe more than they own or can hope to earn (such as nations, banks in troubl
254 Aaron747 : In a real doomsday scenario, saving the banks would be the same thing as saving the rest of us. It would vary a bit from country to country though, a
255 cmf : Plenty enough cases where someone is angry and fire a gun out in public. Tell that to those saved because of it. Good for you. Unfortunately some 10,
256 seb146 : I asked a question about gun registration and you started in on cars. So, I followed your change of subject and talked about car registration. Which
257 BMI727 : He's wrong. If I have to justify to the government (or anyone else really) why I should be able to do or own something, then I'm not really free to d
258 cmf : Some 40,000 per year killed or injured. While most people haven't been shot most people know of people who have. I have not argued for ban of AR-15's
259 BMI727 : Out of some 300,000,000 Americans, and 40% of households own guns. Okay, so what rights do you have now that you won't have if your neighbor's gun ca
260 cmf : Again, 40,000 per year. Right now he can fire 30 rounds, or more.... So it is not about what rights I have now. And the reasons for limiting magazine
261 BMI727 : Unless he's firing them at you, I don't see how it's your problem. Either way, what rights would you gain if a clip capacity limit were passed?
262 cmf : Not all of us are so egoistic that we can't recognise a problem before we are directly affected. Why are you repeating a question that has been answe
263 StarAC17 : I have no problem with private sales of guns but doing so means you have to go through the process of transferring the registration of a gun from one
264 Mir : The "there no practical, peaceful use for them" doesn't fly any more than with guns. Suppose I want to dam a stream on my land. A nuclear weapon will
265 BMI727 : So you think that it's just a matter of time before a gun owner shoots at you? What you're getting at is exactly what I'm saying: unless there is a s
266 HoMsaR : What if I, doing my own research during my own time, happen to figure out how to create a nuclear weapon, and, while digging for oil in Alaska, happe
267 FlyDeltaJets : True but in many cases mental health is not the cause of gun violence. Death is the ultimate level of damage. So yes if something can cause a lot of
268 BMI727 : Go for it, although I thought the law covers the materials themselves rather than just weapons made with them. Vetting and a background check, sure.
269 HoMsaR : That's fine. I'll just find some new material that creates an equivalent effect but isn't covered by the law.
270 n318ea : So to protect the integrity of the election process is racist? You never heard of ACORN I take it. You have NO proof of your statement to supress the
271 StarAC17 : You can drive any car that that your license specifes, you can't get a standard car license and then hop into an 18 wheeler. Perhaps you could do the
272 BMI727 : I'm not sure what laws are like other places, but I'm pretty sure you can if you aren't doing it for hire. I'm fairly certain that you wouldn't need
273 StarAC17 : Fair point with your examples. Ok we agree on that but can we expand that to mental health issues so if you have even minor mental health problems re
274 EA CO AS : So you'd advocate repealing the Second Amendment and rescinding the right outlined in it to all? I could say the same about your ego in deciding it's
275 cerecl : Sorry, you are wrong. It is his opinion and four other justices's as well. They are the people that interpret the constitution. Want to prove your ar
276 Aaron747 : Justice Scalia has been on the wrong side of many things - this is hardly a rational standpoint to mount a logical position on. High vehicle speeds a
277 Post contains links FlyDeltaJets : Because you are free to do something why wouldn't it come with restrictions, especially something that demands such a level of responsibility as owni
278 cmf : Gun owners shoot people every day. As said 40,000 per year. It has been answered several times. It helps reduce consequences when they are misused. I
279 brilondon : There is no reason to own and have access to an Assault rifle that can fire off multiple rounds a minute. Also, when the constitution was drafted the
280 cptkrell : cmf stated (reply 278) "Gun owners shoot people every day. As said 40,000 per year." Are we sure about that statistic? Blanket bad rap for gun owners?
281 BMI727 : If I have to explain why I should be allowed to own something, then I'm not really free to own it. It's really that simple. Gun licenses and registra
282 cmf : I obviously wasn't specific enough. I do not have statistics for that but the vast majority of guns used start legit. When they are not used by the o
283 BMI727 : You can try and screen out those who are actually likely to commit a crime. If the answer to why someone may be likely to commit a gun crime does not
284 cptkrell : For interest whilst waiting to pull a prime rib out of the oven, I did a minute of statistical research: gun deaths USA, 2011 (types of weapons not sp
285 cmf : Who is telling them it is OK to kill people?
286 BMI727 : Nobody, but it's silly to let people have clips to kill seven or ten people but not twenty or thirty. If you cannot be trusted with twenty bullets I
287 kiwirob : In NZ professional pest controllers are allowed semi-automatic weapons with a special license endorsement, I don't think this is an issue in the US,
288 cptkrell : Oh, there are reasons to own high-powered semi-auto stuff. Fun is one reason. We have an occassional alcohol/tobacco/firearms party out behind the bar
289 Post contains images petertenthije : Brilliant combination.
290 MD11Engineer : I agree. This is anything but responsible gun ownership. Just add some dynamite into the mix and Darwin might sort out who will be left to procreate.
291 cptkrell : Sorry petertenthije; Alcohol/Tobacco/Firearms party is a local r.f. (rat f***) term. The US government has the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms (a
292 MD11Engineer : I know the official connotation, but I hope you guys leave the drinking until AFTER the shooting when the weapons have all been cleared and safely sto
293 cptkrell : MD11Engineer; and you didn't read the last sentence of my Reply288. The operative word here is "after". regards...jack
294 cmf : Problem is that in the real world there are a lot of people who do not follow the rules. Thus we make it as difficult as we can for them without crea
295 Ken777 : You have just presented the reality of America. Like it or not there will be far too many people who believe that assault weapons with 30 round clips
296 MD11Engineer : Ken, I normally agree with your view, but in this case I have to disagree. The "assault weapon" (in fact we are talking about semi automatic rifles w
297 Post contains links iowaman : As this thread is nearly 300 replies please continue the discussion here: NRA "Big Announcement" Statement... Really? #2 (by iowaman Dec 25 2012 in No
298 Post contains links ltbewr : This website gives some interesting background as to these stats: http://smartgunlaws.org/gun-deaths-and-injuries-statistics/ One point in that artic
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