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Russian Ban On American Adoptions: Your Views  
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3372 posts, RR: 8
Posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2...aw-banning-american-adoptions?lite

So, this whole process is an eye for an eye thing from Russia. After the US passed a law that would penalize Russians who abuse human rights, Russia is now retaliating with a ban on adoptions from Americans. Namely, this little piece is the drive behind it:

Quote:
...Putin said U.S. authorities routinely let Americans suspected of violence toward Russian adoptees go unpunished — a clear reference to Dima Yakovlev, a Russian toddler for whom the bill is named. The child was adopted by Americans and then died in 2008 after his father left him in a car in broiling heat for hours. The father was found not guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

So, what are your views regarding this?

I think it's rather sad that children are the ones who will be affected by this. Imagine a family just ready to adopt a child and getting a call saying that their process has been cancelled due to the law. Or imagine a child excited at the prospect of going to a family for the first time and learning that he'll have to remain in the orphanage.


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4792 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

The law reaks of ignorance. With the way Russia behaves in current political situations worldwide, I expect nothing less.


Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5783 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
So, what are your views regarding this?

It is just the entrenched Russian leadership doing its nonsensical nationalistic crap. I feel bad for the many Russian children that won't have a chance to find loving parents as quickly, but as far as impact to America it will be almost nonexistent and adoptive parents will just automatically have to look elsewhere.

Now, those families that are currently in the adoption process who will not be able to actually adopt the children they have fallen in love with, I feel very bad for them. And the other sad part is what this act says about relations between the two great nations.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

My first cousin's son and his wife have adopted two very young children from Russia. They were both approx 1 when identified as his prospective children, and approx 2 when they finally left Russia. They were 'sold' for about $45,000 each in '"official fees" and "compensation" for the orphanage and birth mothers for their birth and care. He and his wife also had to make four trips to Russia for each adoption - required to stay in certain hotels. They say the total cost of the adoptions was about $100,000 each.

The eldest is now 12 - and is unable to speak and is officially autistic. Her condition is caused by heavy metal poisoning of lead from apparently eating paint chips on her crib, and mercury. Though officially she was never exposed to mercury, she has it in her body. She came from a large orphanage with almost 500 children under age three near the Black Sea.

I saw and kind of talked with her at a family Thanksgiving. She is lively, clever, but a bit shy with a lot of people around. There were 58 of us at the farm that day. She really enjoys playing with the other kids.

The second child is now 8 - and appears completely normal. Does well in school, is very outgoing. Puts himself in the middle of all the action. My 8 year old grandson and he became quick friends.

He also came from a baby factory orphanage - but close to Moscow.

Here is one example of how the infants are treated.

When both came to their new parents - they could not urinate or defecate in diapers. They would hold it until their diapers were taken off. They would then immediately void their bowels. In the orphanage, the children were 'changed' on a schedule. If the child messed their clothing (not diapers as we know them) they stayed wet or dirty until the scheduled change time. Even infants quickly learned to hold their excrement functions.

The Russian politicians promoting this new law are just like our US politicians - distorting something unfortunate, but non-typical, into an issue - to push the public away for realizing the politicians really are not doing their real job.


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7827 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2427 times:

I've often met Americans (mainly gay couples) at the hotel I stay in Moscow in Russia for adoptions, I never realised that adopting from Russia was so popular. Appears to be a stupid new law, the only ones who are screwed over buy it are the kids, looks like the same old story with the Romanian kids who are now very difficult to adopt, if not illegal.

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2410 times:

Two sides to it, of course. Many loving families adopt kids from Russia and give them far better lives than they could have hoped for. Then, there have been cases where it is evident that that the checks to ensure the children are going to an appropriate environment have not been all that they could, and these minority of cases have somewhat inevitably spoilt it for both potential adoptees and adoptors. Ultimately, one of those situations that just could have probably been negotiatied about and sorted out far more sensibly than has been the case here. An outright ban does nobody any favours.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2402 times:

What it boils down to is that Russia is choosing to play politics with orphans. If they want to hit back at the US in some way for what they perceive as a slight, I don't really have a problem with it - that's how the game is played. But don't screw with orphans - that's just disgusting.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11569 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2397 times:

Don't get it. There are plenty of kids to adopt in the United States, sitting in the foster system purgatory.


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User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4792 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
Don't get it. There are plenty of kids to adopt in the United States, sitting in the foster system purgatory.

Too many problems with open adoptions and privacy in the US. Much easier to get a kid from overseas where it is mostly cheaper and without as much risk of the birth parent attempting to reclaim the child. It is a sad state of affairs, but it is the truth of the matter.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
Don't get it. There are plenty of kids to adopt in the United States, sitting in the foster system purgatory.

Indeed the cynical side of me starts to question whether some of those who try to adopt abroad do so simply because they are not qualified to do so domestically. Is there any basis for such a thought? I ask because I genuinely don't know, yet the thought certainly crosses my mind.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20336 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 6):

What it boils down to is that Russia is choosing to play politics with orphans. If they want to hit back at the US in some way for what they perceive as a slight, I don't really have a problem with it - that's how the game is played. But don't screw with orphans - that's just disgusting.

Very well-put. You'd think the Russians could have found a better excuse. And also, what does this accomplish? Do they think that American foreign policymakers honestly care about Russian adoption policy?

It certainly sucks for anyone currently invested in the adoption process, but that is a relatively small number. What will happen in the future is that prospective adopters will turn to other options, such as South America, Asia, and India. This policy will do nothing to help foreign relations or foreign policy and it will hurt orphans. It amounts to a tantrum.

Disgusting. And unsurprising.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2365 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
Very well-put

I think that 'for what they perceive as a slight' is slightly under-playing it. There were indeed a few fairly awful cases, and overreacting to those certainly plays a huge part here. Now, that is not to say that this thing is all ok - it isn't, as I mentioned above, but there's no point pretending it is solely about USA vs Russia - there were/are some issues in some cases.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20336 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
I think that 'for what they perceive as a slight' is slightly under-playing it. There were indeed a few fairly awful cases, and overreacting to those certainly plays a huge part here. Now, that is not to say that this thing is all ok - it isn't, as I mentioned above, but there's no point pretending it is solely about USA vs Russia - there were/are some issues in some cases.

There are issues but they do not justify basically cutting off orphans and leaving them in Russian orphanages to grow into stunted, crippled automata from lack of any sort of mental stimulation in infancy.

I deal with a few adopted Russian kids in my practice and while some are healthy, some are really damaged by their time in the orphanages.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29832 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

Itsastupid tit-for-tat over thecrussian murder of an overseas dissident.

I wonder how many Russians know what their orphanages are really like



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2348 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
but they do not justify basically cutting off orphans and leaving them in Russian orphanages

Absolutely they don't, and I think I was clear on the fact that I don't come down on any particular side here other than to state what a shame it is that some desperate kids might not be saved a serious hardship.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):
some are really damaged by their time in the orphanages.

I wouldn't doubt that for a milisecond - and I commend your work in the strongest possible terms. I simply think we should view all aspects of this issue.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2329 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 11):
I think that 'for what they perceive as a slight' is slightly under-playing it. There were indeed a few fairly awful cases, and overreacting to those certainly plays a huge part here.

It's not an overreaction to those few cases - they don't play into it at all. This is about a US law that deals with Russians deemed to be human rights violators. Russia doesn't like it, and wants to hit back. And since, coincidentally, the record of Americans adopting Russian children hasn't been perfect (has the record of any country?), they've chosen to use that as the way through which they will do it.

If Russia really was that interested in the well-being of their orphans, they would address the state of their orphanage system before preventing orphans from being adopted by people from another country. Instead, they're only hurting their own children by doing this, and they should be ashamed of themselves.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2323 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
It's not an overreaction to those few cases - they don't play into it at all. This is about a US law that deals with Russians deemed to be human rights violators. Russia doesn't like it, and wants to hit back. And since, coincidentally, the record of Americans adopting Russian children hasn't been perfect (has the record of any country?), they've chosen to use that as the way through which they will do it.

It's both. Not sure if you're aware, but some of the earlier cases of neglect got segnificant press interest in Russia.

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
This is about a US law that deals with Russians deemed to be human rights violators. Russia doesn't like it, and wants to hit back.

No argument that this is a large part of it.

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
If Russia really was that interested in the well-being of their orphans, they would address the state of their orphanage system before preventing orphans from being adopted by people from another country. Instead, they're only hurting their own children by doing this, and they should be ashamed of themselves.

Ultimately, yes - all of what you say is true.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21864 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 16):
Not sure if you're aware, but some of the earlier cases of neglect got segnificant press interest in Russia.

Dima Yakovlev, the boy for which the law is named, died in July 2008. The trial was over by January 2009. Yet only now is this law going through, coincidentally right after a US law that Russia doesn't like was passed. That strikes me as awfully convenient.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 7):
There are plenty of kids to adopt in the United States, sitting in the foster system purgatory.

Yes, but the preferred adoption is an infant or near infant. Older kids have always been hard to place. Folks want a BABY not a 8 year old.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 9):
Is there any basis for such a thought?

Mostly No.

The adoption has to meet standards by immigration before the child can be brought to the US. While a few couples, such as gay couples, might not be qualified in certain places in the US, the immigration authorities do look for unqualified parents - criminal pasts, sex offenders, etc - and will deny permission to bring the child into the US.

Of course a few cases slip past the authorities. The same thing happens with adoptions in the US.

------------------------------------

Another factor for foreign adoptions is parents who change their minds. How many cases have we seen in the media each year where a birth parent of a happily adopted child changes their mind and gets the child back after a few years with the adoptive parents.

That really doesn't happen much - but is a HUGE fear factor for people wanting to adopt.

Adopting a child from a foreign country greatly decreases the extremely remote chance of a birth parent trying to reclaim the child in a few years.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11569 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 18):
Yes, but the preferred adoption is an infant or near infant. Older kids have always been hard to place. Folks want a BABY not a 8 year old.

There are plenty of babies.

They get to foster care because they aren't adopted as babies.



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User currently offlineDerico From Argentina, joined Dec 1999, 4318 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2234 times:

The USA has become just as insanely nationalist, the rest of the world sees it clearly.

For example, not passing a UN treaty to enforce proper facilities for the physically handicapped, curtailing rights of foreign passengers in transit, passing laws left and right than infringe on the sovereignty of other countries, what do Americans expect?

It's all stupid. But no one country has the monopoly on spupidity.



My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 3014 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2228 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 1):
Russia behaves in current political situations worldwide, I expect nothing less.

Yeah right. LOL

Like America is always well behaved ?

It is a sad situation, however somewhat understandable.



Quoting casinterest (Reply 8):
Much easier to get a kid from overseas where it is mostly cheaper and without as much risk of the birth parent attempting to reclaim the child.

Maybe, but the process is fought with corruption and false health records. Not a chance I would want to take.

Quoting Derico (Reply 20):
For example, not passing a UN treaty to enforce proper facilities for the physically handicapped, curtailing rights of foreign passengers in transit, passing laws left and right than infringe on the sovereignty of other countries, what do Americans expect?

And the US gets pissed at Russia ? Its a crazy world alright.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3722 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
If Russia really was that interested in the well-being of their orphans, they would address the state of their orphanage system before preventing orphans from being adopted by people from another country.

it runs deeper than that. They have a huge population of orphans for larger societal reasons. It won't be fixed easily, or any time soon.

Quoting D L X (Reply 19):
They get to foster care because they aren't adopted as babies.

Many, many children enter the foster care system at later stages. I did at 4 and again at 15.

Quoting Derico (Reply 20):
For example, not passing a UN treaty to enforce proper facilities for the physically handicapped, curtailing rights of foreign passengers in transit, passing laws left and right than infringe on the sovereignty of other countries, what do Americans expect?

I'm confused. We should not "infringe" on the sovereignty of others, but we should let others infringe on ours?


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11569 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2209 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 22):
Many, many children enter the foster care system at later stages. I did at 4 and again at 15.

No doubt, but most don't. Like my sister.



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User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4792 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2198 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 21):
Yeah right. LOL

Like America is always well behaved ?

My point was about their political manuevering around certain embargo's and other items in direct oppostion to the USA. But you are alluding to other items apparrently.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 21):
Maybe, but the process is fought with corruption and false health records. Not a chance I would want to take.

I know plenty of folks that have gone through it, and would do it again. Foreign adoptions are just much more straight forward than US adoptions. It's sad... but true.

Quoting Derico (Reply 20):
For example, not passing a UN treaty to enforce proper facilities for the physically handicapped,

The US already has laws on the books for physically handicapped people. We don't need the UN watered down version.
The passage of it would not change existing laws. It was sad to see John Mccain and Bob Dole so woefully embarrased by the GOP senate . However it doesn't change the fact that the US has had the law the UN version was based on in the books for 2 decades.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
25 mham001 : The median age of a child entering foster care in the US is 6.7.
26 D L X : That doesn't mean that most people who are not raised by their birth families end up in foster care. The charge was that there are babies in the Unit
27 mham001 : I have no idea where you got anything about that from my posts. My only point was about your comment that "most" foster kids are or were at one time
28 DocLightning : What issue? Russia took this action over an unrelated political slight. The unrelated political slight is not the issue. The handful of absurd cases
29 mdsh00 : I think you miss the point that the US as a whole could care less about this. It's only a small percent of American families, but a whole lot of Russ
30 blrsea : Unfortunately, in internationation relations, there is always a reaction for every action. It may not always be as high profile like this, but someth
31 RussianJet : That would be the one under discussion - the introduction of this law and the reasons for it.
32 Acheron : As silly as this law is, seeing the US still trying to lecture everybody else on human rights is an amusing and slightly pathetic sight. Russia should
33 D L X : No, I think you misunderstood me. I was not talking about infant children in the foster system. I was talking about children that have not entered th
34 Aesma : If gay couples could adopt then that would be an explanation, not many countries allow "their" children to be adopted by gays. It's being discussed r
35 Aeroflot777 : I don't like arguing about politics whatsoever, and think it's always a mute point since everyone has their steadfast views that they are very reluct
36 mham001 : You forget, for every action is a reaction. Have you forgotten the howls from Moscow when Poland desired a missile defense system on it's soil? We ha
37 Aesma : So, Russia is free of domestic violence going unpunished ? I mean, with the well known alcoholism problem, it must be more than common.
38 Aeroflot777 : In this case, I'm simply saying that outrage regarding what happened to Dima Yakovlev spread quickly around the country when the incident itself occu
39 Post contains links D L X : Evidence suggests otherwise. http://www.adoptivefamilies.com/articles.php?aid=522
40 Pu : Russia is in a long term inferiority complex in its feelings towards the West generally and the USA in particular - stemming from the loss of the Cold
41 falstaff : My parent's old neighbors bought some kids from Kazakhstan. I say bought because they paid $50,000 USD in cash (the place would only accept dollars o
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