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10 Worst Cars Of All Time (A Survey) #2  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8326 times:
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Please continue the discussion here as the last thread was over 250 replies.

Previous thread:
10 Worst Cars Of All Time (A Survey) (by Geezer Nov 27 2012 in Non Aviation)

172 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8295 times:

No it was a pea soup green model with a black vinyl interior and the 232 cu engine. I had it for about six years. But it turned into a rust bucket. At 6 years old the passenger side floor board had rusted through, the tops of the front fenders looked like swiss cheese from all the rust. The engines oil pump failed and that was the last of that car.

I had seriously considered a Pinto or Maverick instead of the Gremlin, but after the Cougar I had had it with Ford for some years to come.

[Edited 2012-12-29 15:25:17]

User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8290 times:

Wow; who would guessed this would transfer to to 'new' discussion? Anyhoo, although the thread has migrated to alternate discussions (like all topics do), I'll respond in kind to the last posts regarding AMC vehicles from a few fond memories.

I met Wally Booth in a local Dearborn saloon and we were talking drag cars. He had only limited sponsorship for campaigning a pro-stock Vega from Chevrolet at the time (big bucks were going Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins (RIP) and some other large crowd-drawing campaigners, and Wallace, Dick Aarons (engine designer), Dick Gostenick, Dave Tratechaud (master builders and crew) and others on the pro team were approached by AMC to campaign a Gremlin. Didn't really work out that well, but the Booth-Aarons team looked at the NHRA specs and worked a deal racing the AMC Hornet, Mr. Jim Rader from AMC was the competition activities point man. Not even a bad looking car at the time IMHO. It took me (self gloss) only a little while to use my sophomoric expertise but common sense in aerodymamics to eek out a little more speed and a little less 100'ths seconds in trap time. Long story short; we knocked Plymouth, Dodge, Ford, Chevrolet and anybody elses dick in the dirt and won the national NHRA pro-stock championship at Indianapolis.

To this day I think the AMC Hornet is cool; very acceptable styling and just a hint of different proportions compared with the "big three" offerings of the era.

Now, I didn't think the Gremlin (or the assymetrical Dick Teague doors on the Pacer are my cup of tea, although I guess they made sense), but then again, I don't like much the Cube (sorry, Geezer) or the prevalent trend to "smiley face" or "angry face" styling exhibited on current car designs.

Getting back to original thread, and maybe I've commented on this before, the Pontiac Aztek was a pretty damn good vehicle for its' purpose. Too bad that Wayne Cherry and the board of directors funded the concept with such gross styling. One of the the worst cars of all time? Probably not. One of the worst styled cars of all time? Probably.

Best regards...jack

)



all best; jack
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15812 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8274 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 2):
Getting back to original thread, and maybe I've commented on this before, the Pontiac Aztek was a pretty damn good vehicle for its' purpose.

The Aztek was a genuinely bad car, but it seems to sometimes distract attention away from an equally bad GM effort of similar vintage: the Chevrolet SSR.

The SSR was not cheap.
The SSR was not fast.
The SSR was not practical.
The SSR was not fun to drive.
The SSR was not good looking.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8274 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 2):
To this day I think the AMC Hornet is cool

Wow ! I think this is a pretty damned "cool" story ! Way to go, cptkrell !

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 2):
Now, I didn't think the Gremlin (or the assymetrical Dick Teague doors on the Pacer are my cup of tea, although I guess they made sense), but then again, I don't like much the Cube (sorry, Geezer) or the prevalent trend to "smiley face" or "angry face" styling exhibited on current car designs.

When Toyota first came out with "Scion", and we started seeing these little "boxes" with wheels running around town, I guess I kinda felt the same way; like, "who in the hell would want to ride around in a damned "box" ? I didn't pay any attention to the things for a couple of years, and until just about a year ago, I had no earthly idea of ever buying another car, as I figured my 3500 Dodge Ram/diesel would "last me" as long as I needed anything to drive; and mechanically, I still think it would; but a few things happened, that taken together, changed my "needs" considerably; diesel fuel went sky high, then my "then" fiancee' (and "now" wife) got sick, and I was having to run back and forth, 65 or 70 miles round trip every day, to the hospital in Terre Haute, and it was putting a TON of miles on the Dodge, plus killing me buying the diesel fuel, and at the exact same time I finally "got around to" selling my house in Ohio, and when MY ex and I split the proceeds from the house...........I all of a sudden realized I really HAD to buy an inexpensive, fuel efficient small car; and just thinking about my needs, (and never even riding in any of them), I figured the car I needed was either the Scion "box", the Kia "Soul", or the Cube. The next day we were in Terre Haute, and I noticed a Cube sitting on the Nissan dealership's used car lot; I decided to stop and just "look it over"; when the sales guy came out he seemed like a pretty nice guy, so I drove the thing around the lot......probably no more than a couple hundred yards; and just like that......I told Arlene........this is it ! I liked everything about it; (except that one had 30K on the clock, and I didn't want one with more than 15K) I found one the next day in "Auto Trader", called up about it, and told the guy I'd drive up to Laffayette and pick it up the next day. Believe me.......Cubes just "grow on you" ! (I have however finally found ONE thing about it that makes no sense what-so-ever; you actually can't turn the damned inst panel lights out ! (if you're sitting in the car, listening to the radio while you're waiting for someone, if you don't wants the panel lights on.....you have to turn the engine off ! ) Which IMO, is completely ridiculous !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8265 times:

Geezeer (rep 4); I was no way implying I disagreed with your personal choice of the Cube. I simply was stating that ME don'ts likes the appearance of the car. Obviously, other people do and that is fine with me. A friend who owns one argues that it's "different". My response is that a case of the crabs is different too, but you don't necessarily want them.

BM727; I'm not entirely sure the Aztec was a "genuinely bad car". You have testimony or experience? Admitedly I never owned one but was "forced" to drive one for a few weeks as a company car and found it extremely capable irrespective of some of the immature tasks I requested of the thing.

As per your reference to the SSR, that project was somewhat mis-developed by the new chief engineer at the time, one Mr. Orndorff, who had come down to the then Advanced Project Engineering Center in Warren from C-K trucks in Pontiac, MI. The original concept was started on the S/T truck platform and would have enjoyed much more success (I think) because of weight, packaging, etc. but he dictated that the full-size pickemup truck platform be used and everything went down the tubes from there. So, I agree with your overall analysis, except I think it's kinda cool looking. regards....jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8229 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 1):
I had it for about six years. But it turned into a rust bucket. At 6 years old the passenger side floor board had rusted through, the tops of the front fenders looked like swiss cheese from all the rust.



Yikes!
I thought AMC had pioneered galvanized steel and wouldn't have those rust issues.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 2):
To this day I think the AMC Hornet is cool; very acceptable styling and just a hint of different proportions compared with the "big three" offerings of the era.



Our family had a 1974 AMC Hornet hatchback with the straight 6. It also had rust issues.
That designed lasted all the way till the 1988 model year as the Eagle station wagon.
The Hornet SC coupe is a sweet car too.


For all of us AMC fans, check out this AMC fan site;

http://arcticboy.com/

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
The SSR was not cheap.
The SSR was not fast.
The SSR was not practical.
The SSR was not fun to drive.
The SSR was not good looking.



I never understood the point of that vehicle. Also why was it named after the Soviet Socialist Republics?

Quoting Geezer (Reply 4):
I figured my 3500 Dodge Ram/diesel would "last me" as long as I needed anything to drive;



Doesn't those diesels get pretty good mileage?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8222 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
The Aztek was a genuinely bad car, but it seems to sometimes distract attention away from an equally bad GM effort of similar vintage: the Chevrolet SSR.

BMI, if you happen to run across a picture of a "SSR", how about posting it; That must be something GM had attempted to "pawn off onto the public" since I retired in '97; ( the "SSR" name doesn't ring a bell )

I think I mentioned this one other time in a thread, but speaking of "worst cars"........(or dumbest idea / least useful product from a major car maker...........let's not for get the "Syclone" ! (excuse me while I get back up off of the floor, where I fell, just thinking about that idiotic mis-adventure ! ( I wonder if anyone still has one of those "super-trucks" still sitting around ? )

You gotta hand it to GM though..........no other manufacturer in automotive history has ever been able to "turn" fifteen cents worth of vinyl into 2 or 3 K, like GM did occasionally when they came out with one of their famous "special limited editions"; ( I think that's how they referred to them ) Remember when the Indianapolis Motor Speedway started the "Brickyard 400", to get NASCAR at Indy ? Anyway, I was driving out of Norwood, O. at the time, hauling Camaros's and Firebirds on the outbound trip; At the time, the top-of-line Firebird was the "TransAm"; In a feeble attempt to "associate" the brand with racing (and the newly created race), GM "slightly altered" the next 500 (or so) TransAms that came off the line, and referred to them as "Brickyard 400, Special Limited Edition TransAm"; The "differences" being..............they were ALL painted "sickly white"; they ALL had a pathetic little 2 inch vinyl "patch" (with "Brickyard 400" super-imposed over a tiny black outline, (supposedly showing the "Brickyard 400 track,) with a minuscule little "checkered flag"; this little vinyl patch was pressure-sensitive "stuck" on both sides of the "special limited edition" white TransAm; the third (and by far, the most important "difference"), was th price........about 3K MORE than other TransAns, ( which were already 3 or 4 K more than "plain old" Firebirds.) The whole marketing idea being, the "Special Limited Edition" nonsense, which was supposed to create in the mind of TransAm buyers, the notion that "I have one of the ONLY 500 built ! Yeah, right ! (sucker) The line usually ran at maybe 40 units an hour, to maybe 60 per hour........and for about a week and a half, EVERY TransAm rolling offv the line was white. with a 15 cent piece of vinyl "stuck" on both sides, and a 3k increase on the sticker-price ! The other amazing part of this sorry saga was, many of those "priceless", (read: "sorry") little dumb white vinyl "badges" actually managed to"stay stuck" on the side of the TransAM for several months ! (before finally falling off and further cluttering up the highways)

So.......was ANY ONE lucky enough to see a Brickyard 400 Limited Edition TransAm ?

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8218 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 7):

What year was that "Brickyard 400"?

The Pontiac Aztec as certainly ugly but more recently, Nissan/Infiniti has been putting out some awful looking crossover SUV/CUVs. The worst offenders being the Murano and and FX35.
The Mercedes M-class looks hideous also.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5501 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8207 times:

This may be a bit off topic but since AMC has been mentioned, here goes. All of a sudden it seemed out of nowhere for model year 1974 AMC actually made something style wise that didn't look like puke on wheels. They took the tired outdated fugly 4 door Matadoor/Ambassador platform and spun off a halfway decent looking 2 door Matador coupe. Along with the Mustang II this coupe sold like hotcakes for that year only. It wasn't a fuel miser by any reach. As a matter of fact AMC seemed hip for one year. Even the LAPD bought Matador's for their squad cars albeit the ugly 4 door. Even the James Bond entry for 1974 Man With The Golden Gun went with American Motors for their cars in this movie. A one time event. It seemed as if AMC might have become hip but then they reverted back to form with the bathtub Pacer and milking the stale fat Hornet design way too long (through 1988). Is it just me or do the Pontiac Aztek and the Hornet/Eagle wagon look like kissing cousins?

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/10q1/332639/2001-pontiac-aztek-gt-photo-336715-s-1280x782.jpg

http://www.gatsbyonline.com/Users/8/Images/GatsbyAutomobilesDivers/MatadorX-11.jpg

For AMC this was not a bad looking car!



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8203 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9):
Is it just me or do the Pontiac Aztek and the Hornet/Eagle wagon look like kissing cousins?


Nope. It's just you.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 9):
For AMC this was not a bad looking car!


It's beauty on wheels.
My 1st. grade teacher had one.
There was also a two special editions. The Oleg Cassini designer edition and the Barcelona edition - the bullfighter from Detroit....



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5478 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8195 times:

I browsed through the last thread and a few cars people hated I like quite a bit. The Smart car has one of the most comfortable cabins I've every been in. The ergonomics are excellent as is the quality of the interior. It is painfully slow mainly because of the horrible single clutch semi automatic transmission.

I had a lot of fun driving a Smart in Germany...I got the thing up to 153kph on the autobahn and passed quite a few Audis and the like. I also took it for a tour of the Nurbergring...probably the only Smart car to every do a lap...and probably the slowest lap ever.

A brother of mine had a Pinto...which was not a bad little car. Handled and rode pretty well. It seemed pretty solid and the drivetrain was very reliable. It did turn into a pile of rust though...but it was a fun car to drive.

AMC was a strange company...it had some great looking cars like the Javelin and the AMX. I always liked the oddball looks of the Gremlin but the Pacer, the Matador and Hornet were just terrible looking.

So many cars from the mid 70's could qualify in the 10 worst category; but I'd have to go with the Mustang 2 to lead the list...combining the worst from the Pinto and the Maverick...and not as good as either...though they both set the bar very low.



What the...?
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5501 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8193 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 11):

I browsed through the last thread and a few cars people hated I like quite a bit. The Smart car has one of the most comfortable cabins I've every been in. The ergonomics are excellent as is the quality of the interior. It is painfully slow mainly because of the horrible single clutch semi automatic transmission.

I had a lot of fun driving a Smart in Germany...I got the thing up to 153kph on the autobahn and passed quite a few Audis and the like. I also took it for a tour of the Nurbergring...probably the only Smart car to every do a lap...and probably the slowest lap ever.

Does the Hello Kitty looking Smart Car even offer a manual stick shift? At least in Europe? This is a car for a stick shift. I wonder how this car does with the A/C pumping out the cold air?



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5583 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8174 times:

The Hornets were extremely stout, long-lasting cars, especially with either the 232 or 258 sixes. As for rust, I live in Texas, where we just don't have to deal with that much.

The Matador Coupe was a beautiful creature, so much more cohesive in design than its rivals from GM, Ford or Chrysler.

I saw one at a wrecking yard, must have been the "teaser" car from some dealer's advertising, because it had base everything- the 258 six, three-speed column shift, and no air conditioning. Very odd.



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently onlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2314 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8166 times:

Quoting Geezer (Reply 7):
BMI, if you happen to run across a picture of a "SSR", how about posting it; That must be something GM had attempted to "pawn off onto the public" since I retired in '97; ( the "SSR" name doesn't ring a bell )

Since nobody posted any images of it, here it is in all its glory:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6ME53Do7Uus/Tk8_XgOPW_I/AAAAAAAAAn4/e2R8JkvUnR0/s1600/2003-Chevy-SSR-Red-Flat-Running-Boards-track-1280x960.jpg

That is a retractable hardtop by the way, here is how it looks with it down:

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/260165/2005-chevy-ssr-photo-260198-s-1280x782.jpg

Keep in mind that it is on the same platform as the Trailblazer EXT. Images do no justice on just how large and out of proportion the SSR is.


User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8151 times:

That series Matador (Zippyjet's photo; reply 9) showed up at NASCAR. In 1974 Gary Bettenhausen and Bobby Allison racked up 6 top five finishes including 1st @ Riverside.

In '75 Bobby Allison had 11 top fives including 4 first place wins.

In '76 Penske abandoned for Mercury and Allison only managed a 15th place @ Riverside, but then in 1977 Allison formed his own Matador team and had 6 top fives but no wins.

Economics precluded AMC from continued true sponsorship in NASCAR, NHRA, etc after that.

Yep, as I and others have said, the SSR is one of those "why?" cars. I still like its looks though, and the Corvette V8 gets you there quickly. A local butcher delivers fresh meat to several local saloons in one. "Cut them hot meats." No need for a refrigerated truck.

Geezer; there have always been Indy 500 and Brickyard 500 (and other) pace car editions for the public. Value or not, it has always seemed to be a good sales/marketing tool for the companies, although I do agree with you, the "value" is questionable. There will ALWAYS be some collector, though. Really unique pace cars were the Hurst T-top Indy 500 editions for Olds and Buick. They proved so succesful that they (the T-tops) went on as a regular option (although built off-line at an aftermarket supplier on a drop-ship basis). Kind regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15812 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 5):
You have testimony or experience?

Thankfully not. It's far from the only bad crossover ever made, but a tent? Seriously?

I have heard that the biggest customer of the Aztek was GM themselves, who foisted them on quite a few employees who were entitled to a company car.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 5):
As per your reference to the SSR, that project was somewhat mis-developed by the new chief engineer at the time, one Mr. Orndorff, who had come down to the then Advanced Project Engineering Center in Warren from C-K trucks in Pontiac, MI.

GM should have just imported the Holden Ute and called it the El Camino. It would have been better than the SSR in basically every way. It would have cheaper, faster, more useful, and better looking.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 7):
That must be something GM had attempted to "pawn off onto the public" since I retired in '97;

It was the early to mid-2000s. It started off fat, expensive, and underpowered. Then Chevy upped the engine output to 390 horsepower or so, and the SSR was fat, expensive, and slightly less underpowered.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 7):
I think I mentioned this one other time in a thread, but speaking of "worst cars"........(or dumbest idea / least useful product from a major car maker...........let's not for get the "Syclone" !

The Syclone and Typhoon are some of the best things GM has done since the muscle car era. Sure the interior is nothing special, but GMC made those suckers go. You're talking about a truck that could blow away Camaro Z28s and Ferrari 348s. They packed 280 horsepower (officially, according to some forums and stuff the actual numbers are higher) when base Corvettes had only about 300.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 7):
I wonder if anyone still has one of those "super-trucks" still sitting around ?

Many people have them and love them. GM screwed up dozens of times over the years, but the Syclone and Typhoon are not examples of that. Those models have become cult classics.

Quoting Geezer (Reply 7):
You gotta hand it to GM though..........no other manufacturer in automotive history has ever been able to "turn" fifteen cents worth of vinyl into 2 or 3 K, like GM did occasionally when they came out with one of their famous "special limited editions";

Porsche does it better. They take stuff out and increase the price while having several special editions of pretty much all their models. And then there's the options: heated steering wheel? $270. Paint the key to match the color of the car? Over $300. And if you want your instrument dials colored it will cost you $690.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 15):
and the Corvette V8 gets you there quickly.

No it doesn't. A 5.3 0-60 time in the SSR could be equaled by the GMC Syclone from a decade earlier. And, weighing over 4700 lbs, you'd better hope that there are no corners between here and there.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8131 times:

Quoting sccutler (Reply 13):
The Hornets were extremely stout, long-lasting cars, especially with either the 232 or 258 sixes.
Quoting sccutler (Reply 13):
As for rust, I live in Texas, where we just don't have to deal with that much.


We had our Hornet from 1979-1981. It was a 1974 model and it rusted really fast. I never forget when the muffler and exhaust pipe rusted off at start-up and left a huge burn mark in the driveway.
Once we put a new muffler on, the car sounded brand new all over again.

Since the Hornet is the same car as the Eagle, is it possible to drop in a 360cu" V8 and still keep the car 4-wheel-drive?
That would be an awesome modification for a 1984 Eagle.

Quoting sccutler (Reply 13):
The Matador Coupe was a beautiful creature, so much more cohesive in design than its rivals from GM, Ford or Chrysler.



..and good enough for a James Bond movie too.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8122 times:

BM727; You answered (your Rep 16) in response to my SSR statement " and the Corvette V8 gets you there quickly"

"No it doesn't. A 5.3 0-60 time in the SSR could be equalled..."

I guess I'm missing something. I think 0-60 in 5.3 is quick. Especially in something weighing in at 4700 lbs. However, I agree with your other points.

Superfly (Rep 17) "..and good enough for a James Bond movie too." You do know the car manufacturers PAY to have their cars in movies and TV shows. Usually (not always, but usually) the highest bidder wins. Best regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15812 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8114 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 18):
I think 0-60 in 5.3 is quick.

It was quicker then than it is now, but it still wasn't stellar. How anyone could show up at a Chevy dealer and leave with an SSR when presumably the dealer would also have a far superior and similarly priced Corvette on the lot is beyond me.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3153 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8112 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
The SSR was not cheap.
The SSR was not fast.
The SSR was not practical.
The SSR was not fun to drive.
The SSR was not good looking

The artist concept drawings were released in 99 or 00 when the PT Cruiser hit the showroom floors.

As far as good looking I would say it was the talk of the break-room table from the concept drawings.
There was profound interest the best I could tell.
The problem seemed to be it took almost 4 years to get it to the showroom floor with a price tag equal or greater than a Corvette. Interest wained and the vehicle was useless as far as practicality or performance was concerned, it still looked acceptable but missed every mark as far as a reason to purchase a vehicle with that price tag. Something sure got lost in design and development, it is tough to market a vehicle that just does not excel in some area or the other.

Okie


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 40035 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 18):
You do know the car manufacturers PAY to have their cars in movies and TV shows. Usually (not always, but usually) the highest bidder wins.



You're right. A friend of mine's wife does product placement for Ford.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
How anyone could show up at a Chevy dealer and leave with an SSR when presumably the dealer would also have a far superior and similarly priced Corvette on the lot is beyond me.
Quoting okie (Reply 20):
it still looked acceptable but missed every mark as far as a reason to purchase a vehicle with that price tag. Something sure got lost in design and development, it is tough to market a vehicle that just does not excel in some area or the other.



I ignored the SSR when it was new. I had NO idea it was that expensive!  Wow!
I thought it was priced similar to a PT Cruiser. For someone to spend a Corvette price on a SSR needs their head examined.
Ford did a much better job with their retro styled Thunderbird and even that was less than a Corvette.
The best retro award should go to the new Dodge Challenger. It's beautiful, practical and priced right.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8105 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Don't those diesels get pretty good mileage?

When you say,"pretty good milage", pretty good relative to what ? Sure, my 3500 Dodge / Cummins gets GREAT mileage, relative to a gas powered, 7,500 lb truck ! Probably about double; but there are a few more things to take into consideration, than just "miles per gallon"; I just filled my Cube at Krogers last night, and it took about 6 gallons to fill it; at somewhat less than $3.00 per gallon; ( and those 6 gallons got me something like 210 to 225 miles "down the road"; even the Cummins can't do that! ) Diesel fuel is still $4.00 a gallon ! Not to mention, to replace my Dodge with comparable equipment would cost upwards of 60K; I could buy about four brand new Cubes for that sum. ( OK, OK, nit-pickers, 4 "brand new" Cubes with 15K "on the clock"; OK ?)

Also, when you buy insurance for a vehicle, I'm sure the company selling the insurance is going to charge quite a bit more, if they know they're on the hook for 60K, as opposed to 15k; I guess what it proves is, there is no such thing as a vehicle that will "do everything", and be the most "economical" while doing "everything".

But when need a truck that is capable of carrying a heavy load, (safely and efficiently), a diesel engine is always going to be the better option for power; (which is precisely why ALL big, 80,000 lb. MGVW trucks have had diesel engines in them for about the last 60 or so years now.)

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
Since nobody posted any images of it, here it is in all its glory:

Thank you, Polot ! Yep, just as I had "suspected"........I've been seeing "those things" here and there forever, and always wondered, "WTF" ? I think I may have seen one with the roof retracted a time or two, but I'm not sure. Also, I had heard "here and there" that they had Corvette motors in them, and that they "weren't cheap"; IMHO, attempting to design a vehicle that will "excite" the minuscule market segment that will dig down and actually BUY such a "less than single purpose" vehicle, while STILL trying to make a profit doing it, is "fraught with peril" ! ( Maybe just take the design investment bucks to Vegas and play roulette, and have a "better chance" of making a profit ? )

While we're on the topic of "single purpose" / "no purpose", HUGE investment to design and market vehicles, I'm very surprised that no one has yet mentioned that "thing" (I can't even remember what they called them any more)......the 40's & 50's era "hot rod" thing that Chrysler dropped a fortune on, and ended up selling about 6 copies ? You know, no fenders on the front end, but with two HUGE ugly looking .......... (I'd have to run get a dictionary to find enough adjectives to describe that pitiful looking "monstrosity"); but once again, there WERE people who loved them, ( which was proven when 3 people actually BOUGHT one !)

And the ONE "special purpose", "exotic" that I actually LOVED, and even got to deliver a couple of......the DeLorean ! (There's just "something about" a stainless steel, un-painted, gorgeous body, that makes you want to........(stand and gaze at it ? ) ( The interesting thing about the DeLorean was the "genius" that came up with it and had his name on it.)
(One time auto exec / turned designer,/ turned unsucessful marketer / turned dope dealer ? Whatta guy ! ) I'm sure there are at least a few on here that were "around" when the SS body DeLorean first came out; hell, everyone loved looking at the things, even if they weren't "high performance"; but the ONE copy of the type that REALLY caught my eye was............I used to go to this GM dealer in Charleston, W. Va. every once and a while, and this dealer sold a few DeLoreans; one day I was dropping off a unit or two, and they had taken a brand new DeLorean to their paint shop, and gave it the most "mouth-watering", BLACK, "imron" paint job, (what ever the hell THAT is ?) But the thing was BEAUTIFUL ! (That gorgeous balck paint looked to be about 6 inches "deep" ! ) ( I ofter wondered where THAT baby finally ended up ? ) A junk yard, maybe ?

Oh hell.......we have six inches of snow on the ground, the sun just came out, and I'm sitting here talking about "funny cars" ! I gotta run out and take pictures !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8077 times:

S'Fly; I think the Challenger is TOO retro. I mean when you see one on the road you don't know whether you're looking at vintage or new (unless each is side-by-side at the same time). Even retro flavour should have some "reach" appearance-wise IMHO.

Geezer; I'm thinking you might be referring to the '97-2001 Plymouth, then Chrysler (after Plymouth Division went tango uniform) Prowler. I dunno, I like them. They sold 11 or 12,000 btw.

Geezer; I can personally think of two real claims to fame for John Zachary. #1 was being so instrumental in the original Pontiac GTO which arguably ushered the American muscle car era and #2 for marrying Kelly Harmon. I must admit the DeLorean car was/is an eye catcher but there are just too many inherently questionable items about some of the original design intent. Two pet peeves of mine are #1; it's a TRUE rear engine car with the trans in front of the hanging-out-the-back-of-the-car power plant which is a no-no, and #2; a brushed stainless steel exterior body over a plastic chassis. Hell, it's hard enough to keep a stainless steel refrig or oven clean. Try keeping a stainless car clean, not to mention there are probably only a dozen or so craftsmen in the USA that would have the expertise to repair it without resorting to simply R&R a new zillion dollar piece of body skin. BTW, gull-wing doors are way cool if you don't have to use them in everyday driving. John Z. DeLorean certainly had the engineering and marketing credentials but I simply think his ego got in the way of his professionalism. If one is really interested in a "new" DeLorean, there is an American company that remanufactures them "to spec" for dollars large, but I can't remember where. Just my .02 cents.



all best; jack
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15812 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 3 days ago) and read 8071 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 23):
I mean when you see one on the road you don't know whether you're looking at vintage or new (unless each is side-by-side at the same time).

Just weigh them. It will be very easy to tell them apart that way.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 23):
Even retro flavour should have some "reach" appearance-wise IMHO.

The problem with retro is where to go with it. The Mini still looks pretty much the same after more than a decade, although the line has been expanded with some of the models being stranger than others. Ford has evolved the Mustang somewhat, but I'm thinking that quite a few people will be disappointed with whatever the 2013.5 or 2014 Mustang ends up being.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 23):
Geezer; I'm thinking you might be referring to the '97-2001 Plymouth, then Chrysler (after Plymouth Division went tango uniform) Prowler. I dunno, I like them. They sold 11 or 12,000 btw.

The Prowler probably doesn't belong on any worst lists, but it always seemed underwhelming to me for what it cost. I don't see why anyone would have bought one instead of a BMW Z3 or Porsche Boxster.

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 23):
I must admit the DeLorean car was/is an eye catcher but there are just too many inherently questionable items about some of the original design intent. Two pet peeves of mine are #1; it's a TRUE rear engine car with the trans in front of the hanging-out-the-back-of-the-car power plant which is a no-no, and #2; a brushed stainless steel exterior body over a plastic chassis.

The DeLorean absolutely does belong on a "worst cars" list. It wasn't especially good looking and the performance was embarrassing.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 Post contains links and images zippyjet : It seems that for one year the stars aligned nicely for American Motors (1974). They played ball with the big guys and took the plunge to appear in t
26 type-rated : The Rambler American SC coupe was quite a nice little pocket rocket. A friend of ours had a AMX, very nice looking car. But over the years of ownershi
27 Post contains links and images MrChips : No, the Prowler deserves every criticism leveled at it. First of all, just look at it: It looks ridiculous, especially with those stupid gray plastic
28 BMI727 : The things people do for the government. Anyone would be better off buying a real hot rod. To be fair, at the time there weren't many great engines s
29 Post contains images Superfly : Understood. In other words, it's PERFECT! 1978. The boxy coffin nosed sedan went to 1978 also. In the Chicago area, we had plenty of fully-loaded AMC
30 Post contains images DL_Mech : Thanks for that link! I must admit that I still really like one of those GM "sticker cars" from 1983. I saw one on the road near ATL recently. I'm su
31 cptkrell : "Imron was a brand of enamel made by DuPont." Right, DL_Mech; we painted a couple of our airplanes with it (and a couple of show cars), and it will KI
32 JoeCanuck : Imron and Endura are two part epoxy vehicle paints...very tough and very toxic to use. They are isocyanate paints...they key part to note is 'cyanate
33 type-rated : If you look back at 1970's editions of Flying magazine, Imron was heavily advertised as a brilliant and long lasting finish for your aircraft.
34 DL_Mech : Wow....good to know.
35 Post contains links type-rated : It's the near identical roof line from the tops of the doors upwards that does it. I was disappointed when they stopped making the new one. Around he
36 BMI727 : The Thunderbird was all about styling. Other than that, the Mustang was better in pretty much every way: two more seats, lower price, and better perf
37 zippyjet : For whatever reason, I'm not tired of the now 8 year old general design of the Mustang. It evokes the best of the classic early Mustangs. The dash ta
38 Post contains images Superfly : You welcome. Are they the same engine block? Could the transfer case be mounted to any V8? The 258cu" straight six is a great engine with lots of low
39 DL_Mech : IIRC, all AMC V-8s from 1967-1991 (290,304,343,360,390,401) share similar mounting, only differing in deck height. I think the 258 morphed into the 4
40 cptkrell : DL_Mech's observation (Rep 39) is correct; all the AMC V-8s were basically the same engine with displacements being accomplished by bore/stroke combin
41 Post contains images PHLBOS : Man, I take a couple of weeks off and this thread goes into a sequel. I'll try to do a car-by-car overall reply. Note: many of the quotes are from the
42 cptkrell : PHBOS; thanks for a very nice summary in your Rep 41. I'm not entirely sure I could have written anything better and I concur with your observations/o
43 MrChips : I'm no fan of the Challenger either - partly because it is so incredibly bland to behold, but mostly because I really don't care for most of this "re
44 FI642 : There was a Smart tonight at Los Portales with a wind-up-key on the back. Stupid.
45 cptkrell : MrChips; I agree with your observation that timing between a product planning decision (let alone the "bubble up" of the design/engineering phase) is
46 Post contains images zippyjet : Couldn't have said it better. Case in point; The much maligned laughing stock Edsel. The concept and design were spawned back in 1954/1955. The econo
47 MrChips : The same external pressures that are slowing things down in the US auto development cycle slow down every other manufacturer in their home countries
48 Post contains images Superfly : Hmmmm, could the transfercase handle that engine? Those were putting out around 200HP towards the end. Would be cool to fit a diesel engine in one of
49 Post contains links and images PHLBOS : None others that I'm aware of. It's worth noting (I know you know this but for those that are not 100% aware) that unlike the LTD/LTD II & Bronco
50 Post contains links and images Superfly : If I was evil, I would get a Ford LTD II GT, black with that orangish/reddish large block styled GT stripe. All black interior with the factory rally
51 Post contains images WildcatYXU : Would you mind to elaborate? Why should be a bloated wagon better than a real SUV? (Pathfinder on Altima platform )
52 cptkrell : RE: MrChips Reply 47; I'm not blaming all the lag on timing on the Fed Government alone. It is a problem, not my red herring, though. And, I should be
53 PHLBOS : Last time I checked, Mercedes, Toyota & Nissan aren't domestic (U.S.) brands (see quoted post above w/bold & underlined emphasis added). Why
54 Post contains images Superfly : Oooops. It looks mean and sinister. But I like it. I like the vertical stacked headlights. Chrysler did the same with their Cordoba.
55 Post contains images cptkrell : Hey, Superfly: I didn't say I didn't LIKE them (I do), I just said that stacked headlights went against the argument to the Feds at that time. I thoug
56 TSS : I thought that was a stopgap measure so that the Monte Carlo could continue using the same hood stamping as the '73-'75 models which were slightly do
57 PHLBOS : If memory serves, in addtion to the Monte Carlo & LTD II (not Torino, those always had quad round); the Chevy Chevelle/Malibu, Buick Century/Rega
58 Post contains images cptkrell : TSS (Rep 56); You might be quite right about the carryover hood stampings. PHLBOS (Rep 57); And you are right about the '84 Continental MK VII being f
59 Revelation : Sorry, but I'm in 'Fly's camp. I like the idea of people thinking it's the original model, yet I don't have to wonder if its plugs/points/condenser e
60 cptkrell : Revelation and 'Fly; I'm only saying a visual "repop" of the old doesn't equate to creativity in my eye. I can see and accept without argument that yo
61 Post contains images Superfly : Technically there is no "need" at all to have a car's design evolve over time. The purpose of a car is to get from point A to point B and that has be
62 BMI727 : Some of them, yes. But the Mustang also has its share of middle aged buyers along with the younger folks, and those seemed to be precisely the market
63 cptkrell : Superfly (Rep 61) "Technically there's no 'need' at all to have a car's design evolve over time." Hmmm...want to drive a Model A or Stanley Steamer ev
64 Post contains images Superfly : Ugh, please stop it! I don't like seeing those two in the same sentence. The Ford Thunderbird is class & sophistication. The Chevrolet SSR was a
65 BMI727 : As far as I know, the largest engine used in that platform was the 4.2 liter Jaguar V8 in the S-Type. If you put the bigger engine in there, it again
66 Post contains images Superfly : Two different types of buyers. The Thunderbird is style while the Mustang is pure brut power. Also the extra seats in back of the Mustang means more
67 BMI727 : Probably more so prior to 2005 when the retro Mustangs came out, but that car made the Thunderbird obsolete in most ways. Original ones were not as h
68 Superfly : Perhaps but Ford's decision to discontinue the Thunderbird was already made before the retro Mustang came out.
69 BMI727 : Mostly due to the Thunderbird being a toy more than an car with a good value proposition. Everyone who wanted, and could afford, one had one so it we
70 cptkrell : I ran across a Car & Driver Magazine article entitled "Dishonorable Mention: The Ten Most Embarrassing Award Winners In Automotive History" (CD =
71 TSS : Agreed, and the truly sad thing was that the Hornet Sportabout was rather disappointing as a wagon due to it's lumpy load floor and high liftover hei
72 BMI727 : The Model S is a nicer car in my opinion than the Fisker Karma. Fisker has had some problems lately with recalls and their battery supplier going out
73 PHLBOS : I believe that award came from Motor Trend (MT). I had a subscription w/the magazine at the time and remember reading several rebuke letters from rea
74 Polot : The sad part is this is a lesson that Chevy didn't learn. They did of course make the same exact mistake with the current generation Malibu, bringing
75 Revelation : Agree. I never viewed the Thunderbird as a halo car, but maybe that's just me. I think he meant styling rather than design. I think the T-bird crowd
76 Polot : The problem with not evolving styling is that eventually who likes the style gets one, and people who initially loved the styling start to get tired
77 BMI727 : "Halo model" has many different definitions. By some measures you could consider the Volt to be Chevy's halo model, since it generates publicity and
78 cptkrell : PHLBOS (Rep 73); The Alliance did indeed get the award from C&D. Car & Driver formally apologizes in print and also states "The car is trash."
79 zippyjet : However all the GM "X" cars were flying off the dealer lots especially late 1979, 1980 and into 1981. The Citation though the Edsel also had a Citati
80 TSS : Quite true, and from a purely wagon utility standpoint the Aspen/Volare twins were very well designed with a flat load floor and two decent-sized bui
81 BMI727 : That's what keeps electric cars from being really mainstream, but you have to figure that Model S buyers almost certainly have a second car they can
82 Post contains images Superfly : Would have made more sense to buy it for her AFTER the divorce. I doubt you two fought over that car in court. Yes, I agree. LOL!
83 TSS : Oh, now there's one: The Tucker Torpedo- Grossly under-capitalized and wildly over-hyped. Granted, they were a very cool concept with some clever fea
84 BMI727 : The Tucker was a car with great potential brought down by mismanagement and shady business practices. Things like having the original engine not work
85 Revelation : Probably true at this point in time because the ones getting them now are the true believers who could afford to put down deposits a long time ago. I
86 cptkrell : Quoting Zippyjet (Rep 79): "How would Ford have done with a station wagon version of their Granada/Monarch..." Quoting TSS (Rep 80) "A Granada/Monarch
87 Revelation : Careful, now, one of the participants in this thread is quite fond of such things!
88 Post contains images cptkrell : Quote from Revelation: "Careful, now, one of the participants in this thread is quite fond of such things!" Ooops, and he's my buddy, too! Sorry, 'Fly
89 Post contains images Superfly : Hey watch it!
90 JoeCanuck : Pick me...! I'd take a LeBaron woody wagon or convertible in a heartbeat. K-Car forever...!
91 Post contains images Revelation : I guess there's more than one here with Wood Panel Fever!
92 Post contains images TSS : Make that three of us. I like wood grain trim on wagons. I even like it on the late sixties Chrysler Newport and Mercury Park Lane coupes and convert
93 cptkrell : T S S; For Chrysler and Mercury woody convertibles, the 1946 Chrysler Town and Country and the '46 Mercury Sportsman had REAL maple or birch trimming
94 TSS : Cool without a doubt, but I suspect the maintenance required on actual wood exposed to the elements like that was no fun.
95 Post contains images Superfly : I almost bought one until I found a deal on the 1987 model - the first year of the aerodynamic look with concealed headlight. The best year for the W
96 Post contains links WildcatYXU : Well, not surprising. According to this: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...-cars-ever-sold-at-auction#slide-1 This amount would buy three '57 Fe
97 Post contains images zippyjet : Make that 2 of us! Fly and your's truly. My aunt had two Ford Country Squire Wagons, a 1963 white with red interior and a 1969 squire with all the op
98 BMI727 : A Jalopnik article today gave me another Worst Car entry for the "Good Ideas Executed Horribly" category. Just think how great it would be to have a c
99 Post contains images cptkrell : Ummmm...Superfly (rep 95): I think you probably meant 59 thousand dollars, not 59 MILLION dollars? Priciest car on record is at Pebble Beach. 1957 Fer
100 Post contains images Superfly : Ooops! We never had a car with wood side panelling. I was so jealous of the other kids being dropped of at school in large station wagons with wood s
101 BMI727 : Still, $59,000 could buy you a Ferrari 308 and and a scheduled maintenance visit for it...maybe.
102 Post contains links and images Superfly : The Ferrari is too cliche and every 12 year old's dream. I'd rather have the 1968 Mercury Park Lane convertible with Colony Park side panelling. This
103 BMI727 : Well, yeah. If you're over the age of 12 you should know that the 308 sucked and half the rental cars on Oahu could run rings around Magnum.
104 Post contains links and images Revelation : Speak for yourself! Seems my dad didn't go for the wood sides either: Family photo from 1975, me in center with much blonder hair and wearing glasses
105 Post contains images PHLBOS : The Omega; like many who might gotten a lemon (which can be true for any car), your ex obviuosly got one that was "Le creme de le creme" so to speak.
106 Post contains images Superfly : I was only 9 in 1982. I would have to wait about 3 years before I turned in to a naught boy. Dude! Does your father still have that shirt? It's groov
107 Revelation : Glad you enjoyed it, but sadly neither dad nor the shirt are around any more. He passed in 1998 aged 59.9 years, a week away from the day he planned
108 PHLBOS : Looks like a '71 or '72 Country Sedan, which had the Galaxie 500 trim. The white wagon in the background looks to be either '62 or '63 Chevy Brookwoo
109 TSS : Since Ferrari 308s are hardly rare as Ferraris go, $59,000 could probably get you a decent example, a parts car, and a scheduled maintenance visit. W
110 Superfly : I'm so sorry to hear about that. Not just his passing but the hard life he seemed to live. He seems to have raised you well so we can take solace in
111 Post contains images Revelation : Thanks for the clarification. I zoomed the original earlier and you I couldn't exactly make out what the emblem said on the rear quarter panel, but n
112 nickh : Ferrari 308s (sexy), 328s and 348s are dirt cheap on the used market, if you know where to look for a well maintained example. Back in the early 1990
113 BMI727 : Decent runners can be found for under $40,000 all day long. Of course, for a car that isn't especially fast and, if I remember correctly, requires th
114 Post contains images PHLBOS : That's what I get for not looking more closely at the grille. If the Chevy wagon was a bit more closer, I might have been able to better identify the
115 Post contains images TSS : Ooh, my Escort ZX2 has something in common with a Ferrari! No offense intended. Although I quoted you, I posted those "spotter's guide"-style quick t
116 Post contains images PHLBOS : I double-checked and confirmed; the 460 became an option for the full-size Fords (& Mercurys) in 1973 which was also the final year that the 429
117 Revelation : Very intersting. Thanks!
118 zippyjet : That's sad about your dad. You all looked like a cool family. Yes and no. True, my Aunt and my dad's wagons were both the top of the line Country Squ
119 PHLBOS : No Ford product had that feature until 1970, when it became standard across the board. That configuration was viewed as an anti-theft item back then.
120 Revelation : I didn't know about that 11 year data point, it's very interesting, and to me, pretty hard to visualize. It'd also be interesting to see inflation-ad
121 PHLBOS : The 11-year figure was based on a TV news report I heard over a week ago; so, take it for what it's worth. Also, keep in mind that it's a Nationwide
122 AeroWesty : I'm surprised no one's nominated the mid-80s Chevy Camaro. I had the 1983 model with the 5.0 litre V-8. Consumer Reports rated it in their used car re
123 cptkrell : As far as the 11-year figure you folks are talking about, I think a good part is that in the last decade or so most (I said most) vehicles, irrespefti
124 BMI727 : Those were bad, but a lot of similar cars from the era were as well. It was pretty poor car, but not that much worse than contemporaries as far as I
125 cptkrell : Aerowesty (Rep 122); You spent near $600.00/ month on repairing a 1983 Camaro? Tha's $7,200.00/ yr ! The average price on a new US vehicle was $7,000
126 Post contains links Revelation : http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm gives me $21k in current dollars.
127 cptkrell : Yes, Revelation (Rep 125); Three years ago I met some of my GM buddies at the Corvette Museum and factory in Bowling Green, KY. Across the street from
128 sccutler : My first car, a '61 Impala Sport Sedan, 348 with TurboGlide and Four-Seasons Air. Sure wish I had it now...
129 zippyjet : My mistake. I always thought this was mandated for cars made after a certain date in 1969. I remember the shoulder harness and head restraints were r
130 type-rated : Don't worry, sometimes you write the funniest things when relating your experiences.
131 PHLBOS : That's because it was a safety-related item. Which was more of a convenience item and not safety-related. While having one's car stolen sucks, it's n
132 type-rated : Actually another reason the key was moved to the steering column was to prevent knee injuries during an accident. A lot of times if someone had an ac
133 PHLBOS : Not every car had the ignition switch on the same exact location of the dash. While the '69 Ford (full-sizes) had it located at the bottom-lower righ
134 cptkrell : Only a brief insertion to the already knowledageble previous posts. It relates to safety stuff. IIRC, Ford offered a "safety" or "driver protection" o
135 type-rated : I had a 67' Chevy SS with the 396 engine and the key was directly in front of my knee. I have seen keys in various cars all over the dash.
136 zippyjet : Another Zippyjet epic albeit a bit tragic: An old couple drove East on a Westboiund stretch of our Beltway near Pikesville. The Pikesville couple wer
137 sccutler : Lord, I never realized the '75 Buicks could be had with a six. What a disaster. That car had to weigh 5,000 lb, if it weighed an ounce... Recall that
138 Post contains images PHLBOS : No more than the rest of their competitors at the time. Prior to the '77 downsizing, the smallest V8 offered on GM's B-bodies was the 350. The larger
139 Superfly : A cousin of mine had a 1977 Buick Skylark Landau with that base V6 engine. It was was really, really slow. Not sure if there was something wrong that
140 sccutler : If a Skylark with a 3.8 two-really-slow, there was something awry. I drove (as noted above) a '77 LeSabre, as well as a Regal, with that engine, and
141 Superfly : Maybe my cousin was too cheap to get it fixed. I can imagine those really haul @ss with a 350cu" V8. My old roommate had a 1990 Buick LeSabre Custom
142 TSS : Yep, the emission regulations were, IMHO, poorly thought out because they made no allowance for the size of the car or the size of the engine, thus a
143 type-rated : And who could forget GM's attempt to market a diesel by just converting the regular 350 cid gas engine to diesel.
144 Superfly : They also did the same with the 4.3liter V6. If I'm not mistaken was dropped in the downsized, front-drive H-bodies for 1985. Just another knee-jerk
145 zippyjet : The 70's especially the early part did not treat General now Government Motors well at all. In addition to being rear ended with all the government p
146 TSS : I think the 231As were introduced in '78 or '79 and were installed mostly in RWD A-bodies through 1987, and they may have found their way into some R
147 zippyjet : Old folks and Buick were like beauty queens and retarded intelligence, they go together. Since most oldsters feel 41 mph and up is considered dangerou
148 Superfly : His Skylark was a 1977 model so was his still the first generation 3.8? Remember the Skylark was the same as the Nova which was introduced for the 19
149 Post contains images PHLBOS : Bold emphasis added below: Zip, I don't know exactly what you did in the above-Quote Selected Text function; but neither Sccutler nor I wrote the abov
150 Geezer : I was at Kroger's in Brazil (Indiana) yesterday, and noticed one of those "hand made" Buicks, damn, can't remember what they called them now; anyway,
151 cptkrell : Charlie; I'm thinking you probably saw a Buick Reatta. Was it a two-seater coupe or convert? They only lasted 1988 to 1990 (91?). I was at GM at the t
152 Post contains links BMI727 : 1991 was the last year of the Reatta. The whole thing was an expensive, underperforming sales flop. $25k in the late 1980s made it cheaper than a Cad
153 Post contains images TSS : Who knew there wouldn't be a market for what was basically a less practical version of the already slow-selling Riviera?
154 zippyjet : Believe it or not the Reatta, reminded me of the classic 1963-1967 Corvette "Stingray" style. Sort of like an early example of retro new. Maybe if it
155 type-rated : I had a 1988 Buick Reatta for two years. Then it was stolen in 1990. It was a very nice car. Solidly built. But for some reason when you are in it, it
156 PHLBOS : The Reatta was based off a shortened version of the E-body platform (Eldorado/Toronado/Riviera). At the time, those E-bodies encountered a big time d
157 cptkrell : PHLBOS (Rep 156) is pretty much is spot-on...man, you remember more than I do, and I was working there! But I DO remember this. The first time I saw t
158 type-rated : No, I think the Reatta was just the right size as it was. I couldn't imagine it being any larger. I think if it was larger it wouldn't have handled a
159 zippyjet : I wonder how the Corvette would have done had it been styled like the Reatta? Of course keeping the fiberglass body, RWD and all the Vette characteri
160 BMI727 : Design the often rumored (like once a generation) mid-rear engine Corvette and make it look like the Reatta and you'd have an Acura NSX doppelganger.
161 Post contains images Superfly : Man you've had ALL the cool cars! That instrument panel is shared with the Riviera and there are a lot at the wrecking yards today. You can just swap
162 PHLBOS : Again, the 2-seater Reatta was a cut-down version of a personal luxury 4-seater platform (the Riviera). If it was based off a larger platform (like t
163 type-rated : I was talking about the "look" of the car, long nose with shortened rear end. The Pontiac Grand Prix was also like that. You could have stuck a pair
164 PHLBOS : Nearly every domestic mid-size and full-size personal luxury coupe from the late 60s-on sported a similar motif. Again, had Buick did that; it would'
165 type-rated : Exactly. I think the first car to have this look was the Mustang, then all others followed. Remember one of the selling points about the Reatta was t
166 PHLBOS : Let's be clear, the EXP and the Capri 2-seater of the 90s are completely separate vehicles. The EXP (& the short-lived Mercury LN7) was derived f
167 type-rated : OK, thanks for the correction. For some reason I thought the EXP & the Mercury Capri were the same car. I now see that it was the EXP/LN7. I stand
168 Post contains images Superfly : ...and a BMW is cheaper? WHAT?!?!?!?! I hope you're not talking about the flammable 2.2liter turbo 4-banger. Chrysler put that in almost everything i
169 type-rated : Yes, it is. I pay about $1050 per year for full coverage on it. Remember the X5 is a SUV. And I haven't had any accidents or tickets in over 30 years
170 Post contains images Superfly : Ah yes, the soccermom's BMW. So your days of cool cars are of the past? The Corvette get's 25MPG. I see. Ouch. That does make for an expensive brake
171 KiwiRob : Not on the 3 series and not on the MINI either.
172 type-rated : When I was typing my original reply somehow I knew you were going to say that! I haul dogs in it. Of course the seats have seat cover protectors on t
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