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The Most Embarrassing Display Of Governance?  
User currently offlineCometII From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 297 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

I was thinking about this and thought it could make an interesting topic.

I personally think this whole Fiscal Cliff Kabuki dance ranks amongst the lowest and most embarrassing moments in the history of the republic. The childishness of it all, including the fact that they are counting the hours and minutes and seconds down to Jan 1st, when these people had well over a year of warning to get something done, reminds me of the procrastinating soul we all pity when he/she at the last moment is rushing to the post office to file taxes (and having to stand in a huge line), or frantically clicking away online to pay for the electricity, water, and credit cards... you know, that person that knows a deadline is coming months in advance and still they can't manage to get it done until the very last second. I'm sure eveyone knows such a person, perhaps we ourselves have been like that at some point.

But I'm sure others may disagree and give other examples of the lowest of the low when it comes to democratic governance. The Communist paranoia of the 50s perhaps? The Clinton Impeachment? The Clarence Thomas hearings?

So the question is, what to you qualifies as the most embarrassing and pointless moment in government? All a.netters are welcome to give examples from their own countries too, not just the USA. I guess to keep it within some limits, lets refrain from talking about military operations, assassinations, or periods of military or dictatorial rule, all of which are outside democratic parameters.

Well, I have given my opinion, I think this is fiscal cliff is it, because it is so totally useless theater.

68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2854 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4492 times:

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
Well, I have given my opinion, I think this is fiscal cliff is it, because it is so totally useless theater

Let us see
Bush Tax Cuts
or off the cliff and we have
Obama Largest Tax Increase in US history, which will more than likely clobber the US economy.

So there is seriously high drama at the Whitehouse and the media because if a deal is not done Obama will take the rap.

Okie


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1169 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

I've thought about many different failures, but I can't think of anything more embarrassing than what's going on right now.


If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4436 times:

I wouldn't say the fiscal cliff is the most embarrassing... I'd broaden it out to include everything that has been happening for the past few years

I personally think the fiscal cliff is overrated... bad, but not the end of the world like many make it sound like



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4436 times:

I'd have to say Prohibition was one of the dumbest things that either the Canadian (1st) or American governments have ever done. Since the Mob was able to supply what the public wanted, it made them respectable. And they've done very well since then, thank you.

Our (Canadian) treatment of non-white immigrants (Chinese, Indian, mostly) was shameful, directly at the feet of the government of the day. It's only now, 70-80 years after the fact that we get around to, reluctantly, make an apology. Shows the latent racism that pervades us.

Seizure of ethnic Japanese property in BC, mostly Victoria, after start of Pacific War. These people were already Canadian citizens, but property seized and not returned after WW2. Sold to white people. Ethnic Japanese transported mostly to Alberta and kept in concentration camps. Pure racism. One wonders what the reaction would be if Parliament passed a bill seizing those lands again and granting them to the descendants of the ethnic Japanese that used to live there.

Same goes for feds refusal to admit Jewish refugees late 30s from the "St Louis". Many wound up in Auschwitz.

And that says nothing about our aboriginal population. That is just a ticking time bomb. In Manitoba, 90% of the prison population. Is it a goal to victimize an entire group of people ? Surely there has to be a better way.

Maybe not spot on with OP's intent, but some examples of epic fail by both my federal and provincial governments.


Absolutely no moral fibre in those governments. I hope we have improved on that issue, but I am not sure.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3219 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4432 times:

"...these people had well over a year of warning to get something done." (Topic Starter)

Well over a year?

IIRC, the last "true" federal budget was passed in 1997, Clinton admin. I welcome a correction on that if I'm wrong.

BTW, who invented the term "fiscal cliff"? Was it the politicians or the media? Can't remember when I started hearing it. Regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18704 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

Quoting CometII (Thread starter):
But I'm sure others may disagree and give other examples of the lowest of the low when it comes to democratic governance. The Communist paranoia of the 50s perhaps? The Clinton Impeachment? The Clarence Thomas hearings?

I don't think that the Thomas hearings count. There were and continue to be some serious questions about Mr. Thomas's professional behavior. Of course, he is Supreme now, so he is beyond scrutiny.

Also, in the last two years, I believe that the House repealed Obamacare something like over 40 times. Now, you may disagree with Obamacare, but engaging in a repeated and obvious futile activity on the taxpayer dime doesn't square with being a party that has marketed itself as being fiscally responsible.

I predict that this House will impeach Mr. Obama at least once this term.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4376 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Also, in the last two years, I believe that the House repealed Obamacare something like over 40 times. Now, you may disagree with Obamacare, but engaging in a repeated and obvious futile activity on the taxpayer dime doesn't square with being a party that has marketed itself as being fiscally responsible.

I predict that this House will impeach Mr. Obama at least once this term.

Agree, sadly, with you Doc.

And whatever the impetus for an impeachment motion is, won't pass the Senate, but will be a huge, colossal waste of time. And will make Mitch McConnell smile, since he will the be able to say that Obama has done nothing. Only because the GOP used land mines, not because they had the interests of Americans at heart.

The GOP used to be a respectable partner in the American democratic debate. Thanks to the Teabaggers, not so anymore.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2917 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4350 times:

In the history of the Republic? Japanese internment camps and the McCarthy witch hunts.

"Land of the free".



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3335 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4350 times:

Quoting okie (Reply 1):
So there is seriously high drama at the Whitehouse and the media because if a deal is not done Obama will take the rap.

Have you looked at the polls?? The majority of Americans say that if a deal isn't reached they blame the house and not Obama.

Bohener also wants a deal but the tea party members such as Eric Cantor will not agree to any compromises and he needs their votes, its the GOP that is divided here.

IIRC The senate has passed something that can't get through the house and Obama won re-election while gaining in the senate.

Why should he not exercise the leverage?? Republicans have with less legislative power than him.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):
I'd have to say Prohibition was one of the dumbest things that either the Canadian (1st) or American governments have ever done. Since the Mob was able to supply what the public wanted, it made them respectable. And they've done very well since then, thank you.

Agreed, along with the War on Drugs.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 7):
And will make Mitch McConnell smile, since he will the be able to say that Obama has done nothing.

Yeah but the problem with that is the public didn't buy that in November and I they will make the GOP pay for it in 2014.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
I predict that this House will impeach Mr. Obama at least once this term.

The GOP better watch themselves, they only hold the house and in 2014 they could be sent packing giving Obama full power with no need to seek re-election in 2016.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21106 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4312 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 9):
The GOP better watch themselves, they only hold the house and in 2014 they could be sent packing giving Obama full power with no need to seek re-election in 2016.

Won't happen. Not because the country will still like them more, because that's already not the case - the Democrats won the popular vote in the House this past election. But because they've gerrymandered the districts so much, a GOP majority is completely safe in 2014.

Gerrymandering, incidentally, is also a reason we're in the state that we're in, as it helps extremists more than moderates. You can see the result in the hardliners that now inhabit Congress and refuse to give in on their principles, no matter how contrary to the principles of divided government that may be.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4282 times:

Where you voted for your "tea party" candidates and told them to be rigidly ideological, protecting the tax cuts for the richest no matter what and refusing any sane attempt of a compromise, that's just what they're doing.

You've got zero rights to complain if you voted for one of them.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4259 times:

I do agree that in the post WWII era, this massive budget/spending/taxation fight commonly know as the 'fiscal cliff' is one of the most embarassing displays of our government leaders we elect. You have two massive conflicting issues - limits on revenues due to a changing economy long term with no one willing to pay more in taxes and the other that no one wants cuts in government spending (but for war).
Until people accept thay have to pay more in taxes and accept less subsidies from government, then nothing will change.


User currently offlinewingman From St. Vincent and the Grenadines, joined May 1999, 2099 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4247 times:

I'd have to say Cheney and his neocon circle jerk team telling Colin Powell to go in front of the world at the UN with a plastic Fedex overnight tube and declare that we had incontrovertible proof that Saddam had ICBMs locked on New York City. That was embarrassing. Cutting taxes and then spending $1T on an idiotic war with Dick telling us deficits don't matter. Christ, that was epic embarrassment. How that moron isn't in prison is a wonder.

User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4157 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 10):
Gerrymandering, incidentally, is also a reason we're in the state that we're in, as it helps extremists more than moderates. You can see the result in the hardliners that now inhabit Congress and refuse to give in on their principles, no matter how contrary to the principles of divided government that may be.

Very much agreed. Harper's magazine recently had a piece on that very topic. But how you get out of the straitjacket is difficult to see.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 12):
You have two massive conflicting issues - limits on revenues due to a changing economy long term with no one willing to pay more in taxes and the other that no one wants cuts in government spending (but for war).
Until people accept thay have to pay more in taxes and accept less subsidies from government, then nothing will change.

Sadly now infecting Canada as well. For everything that gets built (roads & bridges, for example), or done ('justice' system) there is a cost. Someone has to pay it. Looks like maybe, just maybe, Jerry Brown in California has moved that topic off top dead centre (Prop 13 I believe, going back some ways).

Quoting wingman (Reply 13):
I'd have to say Cheney and his neocon circle jerk team telling Colin Powell to go in front of the world at the UN with a plastic Fedex overnight tube and declare that we had incontrovertible proof that Saddam had ICBMs locked on New York City. That was embarrassing. Cutting taxes and then spending $1T on an idiotic war with Dick telling us deficits don't matter. Christ, that was epic embarrassment. How that moron isn't in prison is a wonder.


Wholeheartedly agree. Not just Cheney, but Rummy, Libby, Wolfowitz, Feith, etc. Chain gang material actually. Make them do an honest day's work. Mind you, we have our own jagoffs up here.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11133 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

It's good to see someone mention the government internment camps. What about the government looking the other way when rail road companies kidnapped Irish and Chinese to build our railroads? So many men literally worked to death building the railroads in this country. I would even argue that civil rights taking so long to be implemented was an embarassment.


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4075 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 15):
It's good to see someone mention the government internment camps.



Where I have worked for more than a decade, the cafetaria used to be the bunkhouse for the German POWs who cleared the worksite by hand (forced labour ? I thought under the Geneva Convention that POWs could not be forced to work). Horses dragged the felled trees away. In a Canadian winter, not pleasant work. Makes one think.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 15):
What about the government looking the other way when rail road companies kidnapped Irish and Chinese to build our railroads? So many men literally worked to death building the railroads in this country.

Not sure about kidnapping, but ...

In Canada, mostly Irish in the east, Chinese west of the Rockies. On the great plains I simply don't know. A common (and strongly racist) statement in those days was, when a Chinese labourer got blown up carrying nitro into a tunnel, was "Get me another Chinaman !". They were viewed as expendable resources. Perhaps by the standards of the day it was considered OK, hopefully we have come some distance from that.

The great leveller for the Irish here in Ontario was, amazingly, malaria. Or so I've been led to believe.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1788 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4040 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 3):
I personally think the fiscal cliff is overrated

Agreed...and I sincerely believe the media is to blame. It's not even just Fox or MSNBC, but all of them.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 4):

I would add the provincial governments of Ontario and Quebec.

Ontario: eHealth, Orange, power plants, Bill 115
Quebec: mafia involvement in building infrastructure, Bill 101, voting in an obviously separatist premier

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 14):
Mind you, we have our own jagoffs up here.

True, I happened to (regretfully) vote for one in the last election. I voted for Stephen Woodworth simply because I supported the Conservative party, without knowing that Woodworth governs by his religious beliefs rather than what is best for Canadians. But with that said, I still prefer our jagoffs to the jagoffs south of the 49th parallel. *dons flamesuit*

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 16):
forced labour ? I thought under the Geneva Convention that POWs could not be forced to work

Only if the work is deemed "dangerous".

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 16):
hopefully we have come some distance from that.

Considering we are the most multicultural country on the planet, I'd say we have.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11932 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3931 times:

Interesting thread, but as a US citizen, it's clear to me that mere embarassment is not very high on their list of concerns. First is getting all the money they need to get re-elected, second is insuring their future after they don't get re-elected, third is avoiding dealing with any issue that would make it harder to get re-elected.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 12):
I do agree that in the post WWII era, this massive budget/spending/taxation fight commonly know as the 'fiscal cliff' is one of the most embarassing displays of our government leaders we elect. You have two massive conflicting issues - limits on revenues due to a changing economy long term with no one willing to pay more in taxes and the other that no one wants cuts in government spending (but for war).
Until people accept thay have to pay more in taxes and accept less subsidies from government, then nothing will change.

In 20/20 hindsight, it's strange that we've all gone along with this silly process. First, let's wait for a report, that then gets totally ignored. Second, let's appoint a super-committee, those folks will sort it out. Nope, that didn't work, so let's let the better part of a year go by till we end up having automatic cuts we could have had decided on a long time ago.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12883 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3879 times:

To make the whole 'fiscal cliff' mess even worse, was the deal passed by the Senate in the wee hours and subject to the Constitutionally required vote by the House next Tuesday.

Basically it kills off the 'Bush' tax rates as to those making $400K single/$450 couple/family, keeping it for those with incomes below those levels. It keeps and 'fixes' the income level where the Alternative Minimum Tax kicks in. It holds off a return of Estate taxes on some high income persons and some other minor tax adjustments. It also keeps federal funding of extended unemployment benefits and holds off any cuts in spending or entitlements for the next two months or so. It does appear that the Social Security/Medicare taxes will return to their standard levels.

Even if the House passes this stinker of a package, it means at least 60 more days of political mud-fighting over spending cuts and adjustments no one wants but we need to reduce our deficits, does nothing about our huge infrastructure needs, nothing about fixing our huge financial problems and indeed may spin another recession. It will also meen massive special interests pressures and continues our embarrassing ability of our elected officials to run our country.


User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7917 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3869 times:

The most embarrassing display of governance ever took place in Germany between 1933 and 1945. So there.

As for the USA, I think the syphilis experiments on African Americans and Guatemaltecans, both run by the U.S. Public Health Service, was most embarassing.

In 1946, American judges ran the Doctors' Trial, also known as the "Subsequent Nuremberg Trials", sentencing 20 physicians who were accused of having been involved in Nazi human experimentation to long term imprisonments or even death. No objections here, although I do oppose the death penalty - I always do. But at the same time, the U.S. Health Service kills unwitting people under the guise of public health.
Those responsible were never brought to justice but decorated.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently onlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13808 posts, RR: 63
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 16):
I thought under the Geneva Convention that POWs could not be forced to work)

POWs can´t be used to carry out military related work, like building defences (e.g. digging trenches), but they (at least the enlisted men and NCOs) can be used for other work. Officers have to volunteer.
But in most cases POWs are so bored in their camps that they´ll do any work just to get out of camp and have a change for a while.
The way the Danes and French used German POWs for clearing unexploded ammunition and minefields would be marginal I think.

Jan


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11133 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3819 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 16):
Not sure about kidnapping,

The town where I grew up (Pendleton, Oregon) had a large Chinese population in the early 1900s partly because of the railroad. They built an underground city because the law in the county at the time was any "Chinaman" seen on the street after dark could be shot on sight. Many of the Chinese told stories of being offered huge sums of money to work in America but were simply not paid when they got here. Others were given alcohol or opium until they passed out. When they came to, they were on a ship headed east. This is one possible source for the term "getting Shanghai'd".



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 20):
As for the USA, I think the syphilis experiments on African Americans and Guatemaltecans, both run by the U.S. Public Health Service, was most embarassing.

I had thought the Guatemala syphilis work was a CIA initiative. But of course I could be wrong about that. Maybe I'm confusing the syphilis thing with the counter-insurgency war. Hmmm...

Quoting seb146 (Reply 22):
The town where I grew up (Pendleton, Oregon) had a large Chinese population in the early 1900s partly because of the railroad. They built an underground city because the law in the county at the time was any "Chinaman" seen on the street after dark could be shot on sight. Many of the Chinese told stories of being offered huge sums of money to work in America but were simply not paid when they got here. Others were given alcohol or opium until they passed out. When they came to, they were on a ship headed east. This is one possible source for the term "getting Shanghai'd".

Shooting after dark ? Wow, seems extreme, but racism leads to those sorts of policies. Here in Canada we had a head tax for every Asian immigrant for a long time, and for the most part they were denied the vote for a very long time. There were several race riots in Vancouver over Chinese immigrants:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_anti-Chinese_riots,_1886

http://www.bclearningnetwork.com/LOR...a/Immigration/anti_asian_riots.pdf

Also one involving Japanese immigrants but having a harder time finding a reference.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineCometII From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 297 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 20):
The most embarrassing display of governance ever took place in Germany between 1933 and 1945. So there.

Well, I made it clear in the OP that periods of military dictatorship don't really count. Not because they are not as bad, on the contrary because it is outside basic democratic values.

So of course things like that, or slavery, are far worse and self-understood. I meant things in the history of democratic Germany, in your case, that were done by freely elected politicians that indicated a complete failure of good governance.

I had forgotten about the internment camps in the USA. Yes, that ranks right at the top, along with Jim Crow.


25 Dreadnought : Let's see... Congress controls the purse strings. They, through direct mismanagement or abrogation of their responsibilities (eg. not passing budgets
26 N867DA : I would include the McCarthy-era witch hunts of the 1950s on any list. Communism was a threat to the United States, but creating blacklists for actors
27 Pu : The US Congress is 100% political theater and their only calculations are how what they do impacts the next election - the best interest of the countr
28 FlyDeltaJets : Breaking news, the house passed a bill that would extend the deadline on the seuqestration for a few months and raise taxes on income over 400k.
29 Mir : What an embarrassment. We knew this deadline was coming for more than a year - it should not have taken this long to figure out that the best thing t
30 cptkrell : ...and the president just signed it...regards...jack
31 AR385 : When Mexico City passed the law that essentially legalized abortions, the states governed by the right wing party PAN passed draconian laws, making it
32 seb146 : And, if he had done nothing or vetoed the measure, people would be complaining. This, or any, president with a (D) after his/her name can not win for
33 Superfly : George W Bush starting a war with Iraq and having support from both parties. The witch hunt against Bill Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky ordeal. The
34 seb146 : With misleading intel. But, don't worry about that.
35 Pyrex : Yes, he stepped off the plantation, correct? I would have to say that, in the U.S., the most embarrassing display of governance has got to be the who
36 doug_Or : I believe it was actually Chairmen Bernanke. If not him I'm 99% sure it was an appointed official.
37 Ken777 : There have been a few to say the least. I thought about blow jobs in the White House But, sadly the greatest embarrassment for me was the invasion of
38 DocLightning : You know, it's funny that I'm OK with Mr. Obama but apparently I dislike Mr. Thomas because he's Black. I dislike Mr. Thomas because he has a deep di
39 Pyrex : Exactly. Mr. Obama knows his place, is no Uncle Tom.
40 Dreadnought : That's like someone saying that "Obama believes in communism". You need to back that up. Where did Mr. Thomas say that "the legal system should be us
41 DocLightning : His idea of civil rights is that he personally should not have any, so his idea of civil rights disagrees with his. How do you think he would have ru
42 Post contains links Dreadnought : Tell me what he said, not your paraphrasing of it, which is clearly one-sided. And don't give me Chirs Matthews' paraphrasing either. I want to know
43 WestJet747 : I believe the 1907 riot you link is actually the same one you're thinking of. I agree with you there that it's a pretty bad one, although I don't see
44 DocLightning : The anti-gay sentiment is part of it. He's also anti-woman and anti-Black and anti-minority in general, in spite of the fact that he himself has bene
45 cws818 : You would be incorrect, once again. Exactly. Your hyperbole is often offensive and, in this case, is completely off the mark. Please do explain what
46 Superfly : Actually Pyrex raised some good points that are correct. Franklin Delano Roosevelt may have passed some good programs and policies that we benefit fr
47 Post contains links Pyrex : Oh, really? So would you please care to elaborate what exactly of the below is wrong / he did not do? Were these events not, if classified today ? ww
48 WestJet747 : My interpretation of his decisions and comments on black/minority issues is that he holds the belief that they should do more to help themselves. I d
49 Ken777 : As soon as he comes out as anti-gay I reaffirm my believe that someone else would have been a better choice. Maybe it is because of the man he replac
50 Akiestar : I'm a U.S. citizen, so I can say that the problems mentioned in the last 49 replies are by-and-large spot on. But please. The political theater in the
51 Post contains images Superfly : Even though I've shifted away from the far left, I still have to agree with this statement. Clarence Thomas was not the best pick or the best qualifi
52 Post contains links Revelation : As per the other thread, this is pretty bad: John Boehner Told Harry Reid 'Go F--- Yourself' Outside the Oval Office Someone should remind them of the
53 Dreadnought : Sorry, but while personally I have little use for Boehner, Ried is a scumbucket of the first magnitude. I would have broken his nose instead of namec
54 zckls04 : The problem with issues like these is that there are two sides to them, and the general public is split in their opinion. For example, I understand t
55 StarAC17 : You know I don't think this is embarrassing, I think more of these things need to be said because you stand a better chance of getting something done
56 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I know it's pretty unprofessional, and it is sad we've sunk to this level, but I think it's kinda funny in a strange way. A "did he really just say t
57 Dreadnought : I had to clean up my screen when I read that... Politicians are the best we have to offer? They are raging bottle-baby egomaniacs. “It’s scary to
58 zckls04 : Key word being "supposed". Unfortunately representational democracy is not conducive to that outcome.
59 Post contains links Dreadnought : It can. By 2 term limits for all federal level politicians. You go to Washington, serve your country for a little while, then go back home to your re
60 zckls04 : Not sure how that makes a difference. Out go one set of egomaniacs, in come another. But then if you take a largely self-serving and narcissistic pop
61 Pyrex : There is a basic truism that people who actually want to exercise any position in politics are, by definition, the least suitable people to actually
62 zckls04 : Well the first democracies just picked people at random, like jury service. Maybe we can pick 12 people at random, and they campaign on who doesn't w
63 Pu : Because people act entirely differently if they have zero chance of getting re-elected. We don't need the intermediaries at all. We have the technolo
64 Akiestar : There are inherent problems with term limits, though I don't know if they apply to the United States per se (they might for all we know). For example
65 DeltaMD90 : I see it as the complete opposite... they don't have to worry about reelection anymore so they can actually focus on policies even if they are not "p
66 Dreadnought : Sure, there are problems. There is no perfect solution, otherwise we would have found it already. But I would much rather err in the direction of kee
67 zckls04 : I think very few people would be willing to take five years off, especially if they had a successful career already. I think you'd get the same peopl
68 Post contains links bmacleod : As bad as Congress has been behaving, it hasn't degraded to this level..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmkvO_IwsZ0 Can you see Speaker Boehner and
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