L0VE2FLY From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 397 posts, RR: 0 Posted (11 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8140 times:
There's no question about the importance of speed limits in road safety, yet the German Autobahns have an acceptable safety rating despite having no enforced speed limit. How is that possible? And why no other developed country have adopted the Autobahns model?
falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5877 posts, RR: 28 Reply 2, posted (11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8136 times:
The word autobahn and highway are pretty much interchangable. We Americans tend to think of it as a special word. I used to have a gps that had many language options, when I switched it to German it would call my local highways an Autobahn.
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8369 posts, RR: 24 Reply 3, posted (11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8134 times:
Lane discipline is rigorously enforced in Europe (not just in Germany). When I moved back to the states after 20 years there, it took me 6 months before I could bring myself to pass a left-lane hogger on the right. German cars are also subject to more stringent periodic safety checks - not just pollution controls like we do here. When I look around the parking lot at the office, I see that at least a third of them have bald tires, and I would bet many of them have sub-standard brakes and suspensions as well.
If you have lane discipline and vehicles in relatively good shape, high speeds are not a problem.
lh526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2294 posts, RR: 13 Reply 4, posted (11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 8129 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
About the half of all german Autobahns are without any speed limit... and that's exactly what improves the safety! You are always vigilant, check your surrounding, have the other drivers and cars in sight. You are not driving all-on-your-own, you are merely driving in that big flock of cars, only pass on the left, look way ahead and always have that extra portion of safety in the back of your head.
Plus, to quote a master: "Speed hasn't killed anybody, suddently becoming stationary is what gets you"
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
Actually, they aren't. If you, for example, compare the A5 between Karlsruhe and Freiburg with the 401 between London, ON and Woodstock, ON, the 401 is straighter, wider, has an inner paved shoulder and very long merging lanes. It's a better highway altogether. Yet the 401 has a limit of 100 km/h (that, according to some, is very dangerous to disobey) and the A5 has no limit.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15055 posts, RR: 26 Reply 7, posted (11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8043 times:
Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 6): Simple. There is a lot of money in setting and enforcing the speed limits.The govermnets, municipalities and companies involved in speeding industry just won't give it up.
American police need to stop enforcing speed limits on rural highways and start citing drivers for improper use of the left lane. People would get where they are going faster and governments would make more money.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5877 posts, RR: 28 Reply 8, posted (11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8042 times:
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3): German cars are also subject to more stringent periodic safety checks - not just pollution controls like we do here
Some states like Michigan have no inspection at all, of any kind. Every time something like this comes up (which is rarely) the civil rights and minority groups get all up in arms because they claim it will keep the poor from driving. Some states have Safety and emission inspection; Missouri requires safety inspection all over the state, but emission, in only some areas.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3): I would bet many of them have sub-standard brakes and suspensions as well.
Probably way more than you could imagine. My students and I fix brakes that are BAD on a weekly basis. We have replaced master cylinders that are faulty, but people have been driving on for months. I see caliper pistons tearing into rotors, blown out wheel cylinders, rusted in half brake lines, and sometimes multiple problems in the same car. These aren't just student's cars, many times it is parents and staff. There cars aren't falling apart because they can't keep them up, it is because they don't even know they have a problem.
I hear this all the time too: "I need an alignment, can you do it". Cars don't need an alignment unless you have replaced something or something is worn, broken, or bent. When I come back and say " You need a ball joint" or something like that people get all pissy and say "but it just needs aligned, just do that".
I can't be too picky, my $600 truck wouldn't pass inspection in any state that has them. It is reasonably safe, for a Detroit vehicle.
Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 6): There is a lot of money in setting and enforcing the speed limits.
Yep. That is very lucrative.
Quoting lh526 (Reply 4): About the half of all german Autobahns are without any speed limit... and that's exactly what improves the safety!
From my observations, from driving on German roads, is that most people are not really going that fast. Most people aren't driving at 200mph. I drive with my friend Lutz and he rarely exceeds 125 km/h. He is a police officer and isn't too big a fan of reckless driving.
Another buddy of mine drives a bit faster. A couple of years ago we got his Smart Roadster going as fast as it would go.
CPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5858 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8038 times:
Quoting lh526 (Reply 4): About the half of all german Autobahns are without any speed limit... and that's exactly what improves the safety! You are always vigilant, check your surrounding, have the other drivers and cars in sight. You are not driving all-on-your-own, you are merely driving in that big flock of cars, only pass on the left, look way ahead and always have that extra portion of safety in the back of your head.
Of course, that also means you have to be extra vigilant when someone in front of you isn't paying attention. I can still remember driving on the A5 between Karlsruhe and Freiburg one very early summer morning, and coming up behind a van swerving from side to side across both lanes.
Geezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8007 times:
I have been considering this exact question now, for more than 50 or 60 years; I believe I now have the answer, I think i have it all "figured out"; whether or not I'll be able to explain it all, is another matter; (but i'll try)
ih526 has one part of it; the roads are "better", the drivers are more "vigilant", etc. that's a big part of it.
It's not only easy, it's painfully obvious why there are so many car crashes in the U.S. It's because, over all, "on average".....U.S. drivers are TERRIBLE ! by any standard you wish to apply, drivers in the U.S. are absolutely terrible ! Why do I say this ? About my "fellow Americans" ? Only because it happens to be completely true ! Now....after saying that, (and no doubt pissing a lot of Americans off, I'll back it up with 40 years worth of personal observation.
First......we must define what constitutes a "good driver"; that's rather easy to do; a really good driver must be many things;
I'll attempt to enumerate a few of them; (We'll call them "must have's") Must have a good attitude; must have sufficient training; must have a thorough knowledge of all traffic laws; must have a thorough knowledge of all safety rules; must be completely cognizant of all aspects of "defensive driving" (that one right there rules out about 80% of all licensed drivers in the U. S.) must have clear cut objective of where he (or she) wants to go, exactly how to get there, with a fervent desire to arrive safely, with no damage to person or vehicle, and a commitment to aid other motorists to do the same.
Must start every trip (be it around the block to the beauty parlor, or 2,000 miles away to Tucumcari, N.M.) well rested, completely sober, excellent frame of mind, and the ever-necessary "good attitude" to complete said trip in one's own lane, obeying all applicable traffic laws, while keeping one's mind COMPLETELY on one's driving, while at the same time, maintaining complete situational awareness at all times, thus being alert to other drivers failing to do so, and being instantly ready and fully prepared to take necessary and appropriate measure if and when encountering others not doing so.
When you can meet this criteria, you may consider yourself to be well on the way to being a "good driver".
As we all know, drivers meeting these standards of qualification are the exception, rather than the rule. If and when we can turn this this unfortunate fact around, making "good drivers" the "rule", rather than the "exception", we will then be able to have autobahn type, no speed limit highways, and still maintain an enviable safety record.
BTW..........I don't see this happening in the U.S. any time soon.
You may think that's all there is to it; you would be wrong. Second is Licensing............
In order to drive, all drivers must be licensed ; sounds good so far; but it isn't good; it's PATHETIC ! Case in point;
Little Cedric gets out of High School, (has taken driver's ed), goes to licensing "place", and is "tested"; by who ? Why, an "individual" whose qualifications for being a "tester" is a uniform (which says "official tester" over the breast pocket, and who has completed the "tester qualification course", (which lasts for two whole days!)
Little Cedric does well, drives all the way around the block without crashing, and is issued his drivers license; at this point, as long as he avoids running over a bus load of Brownie Scouts, or never is never convicted in more than 6 duo's in one year, Cedrics NEXT obligatory trip tom the "testing place" will occur when he's 92 yrs old, and HAS run over a bus load of Brownie Scouts.
What all of this points out is................the States, (who are responsible for issuing operators licenses) are NOT "responsible" ! Not EVEN !
Contrast this "system" with the way licenses for flying airplanes is handled; (and I think everyone on Airliners.net is aware of how this works.) Are you kind of starting to see why I say U.S. drivers are "terrible" ? Do you know anyone who "qualifies" to drive a car ?
End Part One
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
cptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2853 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 7967 times:
Without writing a tome, it's very simple; U.S. drivers suck. It's partially because some people are as*holes because they were probably born that way and also because some people are as*holes behind the wheel because they never learned common sense (let alone how to operate machinery).
Driver Ed programs are simply another tax collection agency. Most driver ed instructors can't drive responsibly themselves let alone "train" someone else, irrespective of age. regards...jack
Many of them, at least. There are quite a few sections that are old and worn out as well, particularly with infrastructure spending somewhat suffering in recent years, but you can pretty much rely on those sections being fenced in with speed limits, since it would be outright dangerous otherwise. Same as the still frequent construction sites with standardized speed limits (80/60km/h). Which also implies that obeying the speed limits can be life-saving.
Training is pretty rigidly prescribed and can only be done by licensed instructors; Many people need several expensive attempts to finally make the test; Some never manage it.
Even on top-grade autobahn sections with a top-notch car in perfect condition and with yourself well-rested, alert and always anticipating the (potentially reckless) actions of the other drivers, driving very fast is still elevating your risk, however.
It can be fun for a while, but in most cases the substantially higher fuel consumption, the stress and the risk are not really worth the few minutes you may be able to shave from your traveling time. About 130-140km/h usually works best.
SuperCaravelle From Netherlands, joined Jan 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7927 times:
Well, the Autobahns are partly limitless because of the massive automotive lobby in Germany (as I'm sure you all know big premium manufacturers like BMW, Merc, Porsche, Audi are from Germany).
Also, there has never been much reason to change to another model. As the first poster is saying, accident ratings do not give incentives to limit the speed. It remains to be seen however how long this situation continues to exist. Nowadays the environment is cited as the primary reason to introduce a general 130km/h (80mph) speed limit everywhere in Germany. Actually, the state of Bremen already introduced a general speed limit (but luckily only a ~70km stretch of Autobahn is situated there).
Personally, coming from a country where 1km/h over the speed limit will get you booked (doing 131km/h in the Netherlands will cost some €20), German motorways are an expression of freedom. I can't tell you how good it is to just drive, at the speed you want (which in my case is sometimes 180kmh, sometimes 120), without having to worry about it. It means a lot less attention is diverted to my speedometer, or the radio or my mobile phone where speed traps are announced and posted.
As long as you check your mirror twice before an overtaking move on the fast lane, not much can go wrong. It is important to always know at which speed the guy behind you is traveling, but that's not such a big deal, much less than you'd expect.
In Britain the 70mph speed limit was temporarily introduced, before that there were no speed limits on British motorways either. I don't think the limit will ever disappear though.
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8369 posts, RR: 24 Reply 15, posted (11 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7913 times:
Quoting Klaus (Reply 13): It can be fun for a while, but in most cases the substantially higher fuel consumption, the stress and the risk are not really worth the few minutes you may be able to shave from your traveling time. About 130-140km/h usually works best.
Bingo. The novelty and excitement of being allowed to drive maxed out quickly dies when you realize that having to stop and fill up with gas every hour sucks, not to mention the deathgrip on the steering wheel when going over 240 kmh or so gets tiring. Most people soon learn that even on the unlimited sections, you are better off cruising at little more than 150-160.
JoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5258 posts, RR: 30 Reply 16, posted (11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7892 times:
The Autobaun is not nearly as extensive or the free for all many think. That being said, I do know that a Smart car will do 153kph indicated, on said Autobaun, before the governor kicks in...though it does take some patience waiting for it to get there.
As well, a Smart car, (or any vehicle), will pass a lot of Mercs, Audis, vw's and BMW's while travelling at that speed.
Braniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2856 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7867 times:
Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 6): Actually, they aren't. If you, for example, compare the A5 between Karlsruhe and Freiburg with the 401 between London, ON and Woodstock, ON, the 401 is straighter, wider, has an inner paved shoulder and very long merging lanes. It's a better highway altogether. Yet the 401 has a limit of 100 km/h (that, according to some, is very dangerous to disobey) and the A5 has no limit.
I was referring to so something that I once saw in a documentary on the subject. Something to the effect of that the pavement itself is twice as thick as the comparable American highway; also, they are repaired often... There are some sections of the 405, for example, which are terrible with potholes. Even at 60 one is bouncing around like crazy.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7841 posts, RR: 8 Reply 18, posted (11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7858 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7): American police need to stop enforcing speed limits on rural highways and start citing drivers for improper use of the left lane.
You aren't going to see police or highway patrols turning their back on speeders. THose with experience have seen too many bodies from high speed driving, just as they have from drunk drivers. They generally don't stop someone going 2 - 4 miles over the limit (except in school zones) but they do stop speeders who are obviously going above the limits. I actually believe that passing a patrol car with lights blazing and a speeder sitting in front is a good "motivator" for driving within the limits.
And the other side of the coin is obviously money - tickets generate funds for a city, county, state, etc.
Quoting falstaff (Reply 8): Some states like Michigan have no inspection at all, of any kind
Oklahoma used to have a reasonable inspection program but the conservatives in this state got rid of it.
As far as MI goes, my son moved there and his insurance took a major increase. When I asked why the response was that the state law required unlimited medical on the policies. A smart, but expensive approach.
When you get down to it the first thing about safety is to start every trip without a concern about having to rush to get somewhere. Going across town as fast as you can might save 5 minutes, but throws up a basket of unnecessary risks.
For a long time I have left early to get somewhere on time. On road trips I don't mind taking an extra day. I stop when tired and rest up. I don't see any reason to drive 8 hours a day. If something is that important I can take a plane. I took the same approach when flying on business - for overseas trips I gave myself an extra day or two for travel. In the US I would fly out the night before instead of fighting the mad rush of flying the day of a meeting.
When Americans can relax on the road you'll see improvements.
Geezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7829 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 18): Oklahoma used to have a reasonable inspection program but the conservatives in this state got rid of it.
Yeah, right, Ken.....musta been all George Bush's fault ! EVERYTHING is the Conservative's fault ! Cause Ken said so !
I'll bet if a bunch of liberals put their heads together, they could figure out a way that all these drunk drivers, driving while texting morons, driving while yaking 9 hours on cell phone, and probably even driving while naked is the conservative's fault !
(feel better now?)
Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
It's my understanding, in Germany and other European nations, driver training and liscensing requirements are stricter than what he have in the USA. Therefore a correlation in safety. From what I gather driver training and education on the "Continent" is comparable to premium driver safety, and skill enhancing premium programs at such schools as Bob Bondaurant's School of Performance Driving out west.
And with our Interstates, some sections are updated and state of the art where many are aging, neglected and in need of a major overhaul.
SuperCaravelle From Netherlands, joined Jan 2012, 220 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7775 times:
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 16): The Autobaun is not nearly as extensive or the free for all many think. That being said, I do know that a Smart car will do 153kph indicated, on said Autobaun, before the governor kicks in...though it does take some patience waiting for it to get there.
Actually around 55% is derestricted, and recently some new stretches were added to that (losing their speedlimit). But as most motorways around cities have a speed limit, it often seems most stretches are restricted.
B777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1142 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7720 times:
Love the Autobahn, and I love to drive fast in a nice car. One of personal records is Leipzig to Brussels (650 km) in 4 hours and 35 minutes in a rented Jaguar XJ. I did slow down for Belgium and Holland, by going from 230 to 180
Have done Cologne to Munich (580 km) in just over 4 hours, and Bonn to Copenhagen (950km) in 6, both at night during a week-end and both in my BMW 530d. (Traffic in Denmark is very thin at night, so I only reduced speed to 200).
Sure it requires a certain level of concentration and skill to be hammering around north of 200 kmh for hours on end, but personally I don´t find it particularly stressful. One just has to recognise it is only possible to drive really fast for extended periods at night, and to be aware there are tourists on the road increasing the risks. Yes, Dutch caravan haulers, I´m looking at you
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
ME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13876 posts, RR: 26 Reply 23, posted (11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7699 times:
Quoting falstaff (Reply 2): The word autobahn and highway are pretty much interchangable. We Americans tend to think of it as a special word. I used to have a gps that had many language options, when I switched it to German it would call my local highways an Autobahn.
Sure, the Highway leading from Zürich to Milano begins as an Autobahn and then in the Gotthard-Tunnel becomes an Autostrada, but appears in English language travel guide as a highway. And let's not forget that the "highways" in Britain are "Motorways" --- while a "Route Nationale" in France is just a normal main-road owned by the "République" (nation) while the highways in France are "Autoroutes"
Rabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1001 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7647 times:
From my personal experience - in addition to what was said above - I observed much higher rates of drinking & driving in the US compared to Germany.Eating & Texting while driving: same thing. That might add to the equation.
25 TheSonntag: This is merely a public stunt, since they are not allowed to do it (they found some - rather rediculous - safety reasons to limit the speed on some s
26 na: Exactly. Speeding in the sense of reckless driving depends on the condition alone, not the mathematical speed. Its not the Ferrari blasting away with
27 KiwiRob: Really that sucks, what about benefit of the doubt for speedo's under reading. I love the autobahn and thrashed the crap out of my MINI Cooper D, acc
28 rlwynn: On the way to the Nürburgring following a Ferrari. I do not have this Audi anymore due to the cost of Gasoline. I now have a Skoda Octavia which coul
29 Dreadnought: How about morons playing with their cell phones to take a picture of their dashboard at 260 kph?
30 rlwynn: My brother in law took the picture from over my shoulder. You can see the edge of my head. I would never use a phone driving that fast. Suicide. Here
31 Dreadnought: Fair enough - my apologies. But such pics are quite common, and I am sure many were taken by the driver.
32 Ken777: Been a long time since Oklahoma had a liberal state government - not in my lifetime. The inspection was on trivial things like tires, lights working
33 racko: Actually very long very straight stretches are bad for safety, as they make you tired and less focused.
34 JoeCanuck: Germany was a beautiful country to drive in. The autobahn, the country roads...fantastic.
35 KiwiRob: Try driving the Nullarbor Plain Road 146.6 km of dead straight road, not fun.
36 DocLightning: So true. "Willfully obstructing traffic" is a valid offense. I am *so* tired of drivers driving below the speed limit in the left lane and then tappi
37 falstaff: The picture I posted of the 190 km/h speedometer was taken by me, the passenger, while my friend was driving. I think Missouri is the same.
38 blueflyer: Part of it comes down to us and money. Who in all honesty will vote for this program: -massive infrastructure overhaul to get rid of these dangerous p
39 Geezer: [quote=Klaus,reply=13]Even on top-grade autobahn sections with a top-notch car in perfect condition and with yourself well-rested, alert and always an
40 Redd: Hey, new member so be gentle, I have driven the autobahn between the border of Poland and Puttgarden Germany many times, and the drivers as soon as yo
41 Dreadnought: Welcome to hell... I worked in Poland some 15 years or so, and yes there was a difference when crossing from Germany. but I also saw a difference bet
42 Redd: Lol, glad to be here I've spent some time driving around Poland and you're right about that, also a very clear social & economic difference from
43 B777LRF: Well, since we've opened Pandora's box showing off high-speed jaunts on the 'Bahn, let me add to the pile as well: My BMW 530d on very warm summers da
44 KiwiRob: What's really bad are the single lane roads with trucks drafting each other like madmen. I drove from Lithuania South to Warsaw then across to German
45 JoeCanuck: I lived in Odessa for a couple of years...exciting and exhausting driving there. Anybody can buy a license and there is no vehicle too wrecked that s
46 KiwiRob: Look again it's closer to an indicated 230kph.
47 Geezer: It's a damned good thing I don't live in Germany ! I wouldn't 15 minutes on that racetrack ! That's exactly what I was talking about when In said that
48 BMI727: We'd be better off if they did and let rural roads go unlimited. German engineers found Americans' complaints about lack of cupholders amusing. Suppo
49 planewasted: If you consider the quality of the roads and cars in Germany I don't think the road safety is anything to brag about. I don't feel very safe when driv
50 aloges: I've just come back from a short visit to the US, which included a one-day 750 km road trip through PA, NJ and NY. The one thing that struck me is the
51 WildcatYXU: That's the modus operandi of speeding industry. Underpost the limit and then enforce it, while trying to convince the public that you're protecting i
52 N1120A: A couple things people don't seem to realize that should be clarified. 1) Autobahn is interchangable with Freeway or "Limited-Access Highway". 2) We a
53 Klaus: No! Safety is improved because all the necessary preconditions are enforced which make it possible to then raise the speed limit. Only eliminating th
54 L0VE2FLY: I know, but people almost everywhere associate the word "Autobahn" with highways without speed limit. I noticed that on my visits to Europe. The gove
55 petertenthije: While the Netherlands has an official fixed speed limit (30/50/80/130), the majority of the motorway network has a de-factor variable speed limit. Th
56 MD11Engineer: Actually German law states that your speed has to fit the road and traffic conditions. It can never be higher than the posted limit, but if the road
57 WildcatYXU: It's still only 7 km/h higher that the 130 km/h limit used quite widely in Europe. But way better and way more realistic than the 100 km/h limit in O
58 Dreadnought: I have a bone to pick with you Germans on that. You guys do NOT slow down for conditions. I've driven around Germany quite a bit, and when I was in m
59 Klaus: Not all of us are, but unfortunately there are still too many who massively underestimate the danger in dense fog. Driving 200 in such conditions is
60 Dreadnought: I've been passed like I was standing still, where the car was lost in the fog about a second later. And I have never been known as a slow driver - in
61 MD11Engineer: This German does, and believe me, up here near HHN we regularly get fog as dense that you can´t see 20 meters. If necessary (and this also means icy
62 Kent350787: Even worse, it has a 110kmh maximum speed limit, as does all of South Australia. 100 in Victoria, 110 in NSW, Queensland and WA. At least the Norther
63 SuperCaravelle: Most of those matrix signs do not always show the speed limit, they are only in use when traffic is slow or construction is going on. There are a few
64 L0VE2FLY: Good system to improve road safety and boost the revenue of the local governments. It's actually an expensive toll road as stated in the article, you
65 WildcatYXU: Well, compared to our 407 ETR it's actually inexpensive. If you'd travel the entire length of the 407 (107 km, 66.5 mi)), you'd pay $29.96 of toll.
66 ME AVN FAN: - ALL AUTOBAHNEN in Switzerland have the federal speed limit of 120 kilometers. Also ALL AUTOBAHNEN in Austria have clear speed limits. If you look a
67 WildcatYXU: Well, given that Switzerland has a reputation of having a rule/regulation for just about everything (I don't know if it's deserved or not), it's not
68 Kent350787: Not too many, and dawn and dusk are the major risk times. Before the limtis were introduced cruising at 165kmh was mostly fine, but chewed fuel nasty
69 ME AVN FAN: - extremely well deserved in fact. Speed limits for example. The Autobahnen have generally 120, but some sections have 70 or 80 or 90 or 100 or 110 j
70 N1120A: Remember that a private company fleeced the province in a moment of privatization stupidity over the 407. Also, the regular 400-series highways are a
71 ME AVN FAN: Alright, but to say it again, quite many Autobahnen in Germany HAVE speed limits and so do many sections of "unlimited" ones.Trendwise, those in the
72 iakobos: I had some spare time.... Evolution of the number of road fatalities in Europe over the period 1970-2005 (average per year) NED -4.0 GER -3.9 (21,650
73 WildcatYXU: Whatever it works, governments love to claim that it's the regulation and enforcement at work. At the same time, they love to forget improvements in
74 BMI727: I'd be curious to see insurance company data on actual accident rates and how those differ from fatality stats. People have probably never driven fas
75 ME AVN FAN: people in the 1970ies drove far faster than they do today. To take Switzerland as an example. You in the late 70ies early 80ies could drive from Zür
76 KiwiRob: In defence of NZ we have many and frequent passing lanes, in Norway you do not which encourages impatient drivers to pass in not ideal places.
77 B777LRF: True, but if you look closer you'll notice the rev counter ain't reading 3000, it's more like 3400. I've taken it to the limiter only once, and that
78 B777LRF: Even found a picture from earlier that day to prove it
79 Kent350787: Australia also has many. UNtil 2007, those in the Northern Territory were deristricted, the better ones now limited to 130kmh, although there are prp
80 idealstandard: I've driven extensively on German Autobahns, and generally speaking, the drivers are more alert, aware of the road conditions, and follow road instruc
81 max999: Many people on here have stated that US drivers are worse drivers than those in Europe. I don't necessary believe that there aren't bad drivers in Eur
82 Viscount724: The number of road deaths per year in Switzerland is lower now than in the 1950s, although the number of vehicles on the road has increased several h
83 ME AVN FAN: I had driven with manual transmission cars before I had the chance to drive an "automatic" car. In case of the automatic car, you have up to 20 secon
84 Dreadnought: Whaaaaat???? You know, you aren't supposed to look at the clutch pedal and shift knob when you use it... And in those years, absolutely nothing else
85 Klaus: That is one of the silliest ideas I've ever heard. If a manual transmission actually occupies 1/3 of your attention, you are not fit for the road, yo
86 Viscount724: Sorry but that doesn't make sense. After you have used a manual transmission for a while it becomes second nature and you don't have to concentrate o
87 ME AVN FAN: While this of course is correct and you do the operation automatically and without thinking, it still takes some time. Driving with an automatic car
88 TW: I feel that it is safer to drive a manual than an automatic, and that for several reasons. First of all I tend to pay more attention, and you are much
89 ME AVN FAN: - You when driving an automatic of course should resists those tempatations - you really should be aware of what speed you are driving - when driving
90 BEG2IAH: Wish I saw this topic earlier. There are several problems with American drivers and roads in general: 1. Most drivers (90%+) think they somehow inheri
91 Viscount724: That's the problem. You can become so relaxed when you don't have to pay any attention to what gear you're in that you lose track of what's happening
92 ME AVN FAN: Just for comparison. Drive from New Orleans to Houston/TX or from Houston to Austin. And then drive from Zürich to Geneva. On arrival after the vast
93 WildcatYXU: Even if there is a difference between driver attitude in the USA and in Switzerland, I doubt it's caused by different transmissions used. You don't h
94 Klaus: Looks a lot more as if you yourself just feel lost in european traffic in european cars. I've never found driving here particularly stressful by itse
95 L0VE2FLY: I noticed that while driving in NSW & QLD. My relative who lived in Australia used a wind-operated whistle that goes behind the grille, as you dr