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Large Capacity MP3 Player? (Non-Ipod)  
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 29019 times:
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Hi folks.

Am considering getting myself a good mp3 player to permit a large music collection to go fully portable. There are some stipulations:

1) I don't want an ipod - so please don't suggest that. Tried it, don't want it.
2) Capacity well in excess of 100gb - the larger the better.
3) Not huge, though obviously I appreciate it won't be small as such.
4) Good build quality with few known issues.
5) Obviously, great sound quality.
6) NO comments about 'why would anyone need so much storage' etc. - I do, and that's all there is to it.

I am aware that the options seem few, so would appreciate any views and experiences. Am strongly considering the Cowon X7 - anyone own one?

http://www.trustedreviews.com/cowon-...ble-Audio_review#tr-review-summary

I don't need another web browser or portable computer, so internet wifi, display and so forth are not the prime considerations. Having said that, all added bonuses are of course welcome.

Thanks for reading,


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2963 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 29095 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
Capacity well in excess of 100gb - the larger the better.

Options are indeed few--the only one I'd know of the top of my head is iPod Classic; the last of the 'original' iPods with 160GB. Since you don't want an iPod, it'll be tough... it's smaller than that massive thing you posted, though.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 29056 times:
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Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 1):
it's smaller than that massive thing you posted, though.

Yeah, though size really isn't a big problem as long as it's not the size of a book. If it can go in a large-ish pocket then it's all good.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 29043 times:

I would generally be careful about mechanical harddisks in portable players in any case – the technology just isn't well suited to be carried around (let alone banged around) while operating. There is always a certain risk of failure due to mechanical shocks or ordinary mechanical wear.

It was the main reason why I waited until the iPod nano before I got one.

It's pretty likely that this year the iPod Touch will be upgraded from 64GB to 128GB and the iPod Classic is obsoleted, but apart from Apple large-capacity flash devices are relatively scarce.

Since Apple pretty much owns this product segment, not many other manufacturers really bother with it any more in earnest.

[Edited 2013-01-12 09:45:57]

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 29026 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
but apart from Apple large-capacity flash devices are relatively scarce.

You say scarce - are there any? I haven't come across any at all yet. Another option would be something with an SD card slot - I already have a 128gb SD card, and assume that it probably won't be all that long until higher capacities are available.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
I would generally be careful about mechanical harddisks in portable players in any case – the technology just isn't well suited to be carried around (let alone banged around) while operating. There is always a certain risk of failure due to mechanical shocks or ordinary mechanical wear.

This is of course a concern. Have these issues not been rectified to any serious extent over the years? After all, they have been around a while now.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 28993 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):
You say scarce - are there any?

I've not seen any, but I have not really researched in earnest (my 64GB iPhone is currently sufficient for my complete music library).

But a common trend in devices I've come across appears to be that they have relatively little onboard storage to keep prices as low as possible. But there might indeed be some with card slots for expansion after the fact.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 4):
This is of course a concern. Have these issues not been rectified to any serious extent over the years? After all, they have been around a while now.

And they still keep failing, depending on how they're being treated. Some people take good care of them and/or happen to move in ways their player's harddisk happens to be able to live with, other people have them die one after the other.

Just one example: Having the player running in the car with motor vibrations and shocks from potholes can be very bad for a running harddisk (same applies to notebook computers).

Such players usually have motion sensors that try to protect the drive when they detect excessive shocks, but it may already be too late at that point. These measures can only mitigate the risk to some degree, not really eliminate it.

Solid state Flash memory can also wear out, but primarily when it is being written to extremely frequently, which should not be an issue for a music player. And even SSDs in computers have turned out to be quite reliable.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 28971 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 5):
I've not seen any

I really struggle to understand this gaping hole in the market. Surely I'm not the only one that wants a vast music library on the go?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2373 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 29018 times:

I tried searching on Amazon and found these two:

Archos media player with 250gb:

http://www.amazon.com/Archos-250-GB-...=mp3&ie=UTF8&qid=1358016992&sr=1-6

and this Archos media player 160gb:

http://www.amazon.com/Archos-Wi-Fi-P...=mp3&ie=UTF8&qid=1358016992&sr=1-7

Alternatively, you could get yourself a Galaxy Note and insert an extra SD Card? That would give you up to 128gb of storage.

[Edited 2013-01-12 11:07:37]

User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 28964 times:
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Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 7):
Alternatively, you could get yourself a Galaxy Note and insert an extra SD Card?

This I considered, and they're nice. The problem is that the largest capacity is 16gb, + current maximum 64gb micro SD = not a whole lot of storage still.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 7):
Archos

Two problems with these: Firstly, they're dog ugly. Secondly, I am reading all over the place that something almost always goes wrong with them. Actually, just thought of a third - 20-odd hours music playback is pretty puny too.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2373 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 28955 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
This I considered, and they're nice. The problem is that the largest capacity is 16gb, + current maximum 64gb micro SD = not a whole lot of storage still.

According to GSMArena, the Galaxy Note can be purchased with 64GB internal storage.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
Two problems with these: Firstly, they're dog ugly. Secondly, I am reading all over the place that something almost always goes wrong with them. Actually, just thought of a third - 20-odd hours music playback is pretty puny too.

I agree with you. They're ugly :P But if you wanted a lot of storage, it could have been a possible solution.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 28948 times:
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Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 9):
According to GSMArena, the Galaxy Note can be purchased with 64GB internal storage.

Sorry, was meaning the galaxy player. Not up for buying another phone, have an S3 and it's a far more expensive option anyway. Tend to have lots of video on the phone, films etc, hence the desire for a separate music machine.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 9):
I agree with you. They're ugly :P But if you wanted a lot of storage, it could have been a possible solution.

Sure, am more concerned with build quality and battery. The Cowon X7 has a great battery life.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 28942 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
I really struggle to understand this gaping hole in the market. Surely I'm not the only one that wants a vast music library on the go?

No, but only a smaller fraction of all users have really large libraries. Mine at about 47GB is already relatively large, but I wouldn't be surprised if I was already in a single-digit-percentage minority with that.

Apple has multiple incentives for offering bigger devices:

• with the iPod Classic it was cheap and simple to support larger capacities by simply retaining the old device and shoving a larger harddisk into it

• only relatively few people actually want to pay for a larger Flash-based iPod, iPhone or iPad to hold their music libraries

• some people need a larger capacity for photos, documents and other data

• quite a few iOS apps are in the gigabyte range by now, and there are many very good ones one might want to have

So Apple has a much easier time finding paying customers for bigger-capacity and thus more expensive devices than other manufacturers of just music players, where the number of people not directly going for an Apple device anyway and then willing to pay a premium just for an unusually large capacity is relatively small.

On top of that Apple pretty much sucks the Flash market dry as the biggest Flash buyer worldwide, so the other manufacturers scramble to get enough high-capacity chips to begin with, particularly at affordable prices.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 28918 times:
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OK, thinks I. After exhaustive searching it became clear that aside from a large hard drive there is little option. So, maybe I'll just settle with something with expandable memory, seeing as 128gb micro sd is not far off. Guess what? Hardly any choice there either!! Absolutely incredible.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 28904 times:

When going the expandable route be sure that you can actually fully use the expansion card – many devices have restrictions about what you can put on the external card and how conveniently you can access it.

Also be sure that the device really supports the larger cards. Some have size restrictions.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 28894 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
When going the expandable route be sure that you can actually fully use the expansion card – many devices have restrictions about what you can put on the external card and how conveniently you can access it.

Indeed - there seem to be virtually none that can support SDXC 'out of the box'. Unbelievable.

I get what you say Klaus about only the minority of users wanting higher capacities, but it seems the internet is awash with people asking where they can get such devices.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 28888 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 14):
I get what you say Klaus about only the minority of users wanting higher capacities, but it seems the internet is awash with people asking where they can get such devices.

When you're actively looking for a specific interest, even a tiny minority can find each other on the internet – even airliner enthusiasts...!


User currently offlineGeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 28885 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 6):
I really struggle to understand this gaping hole in the market. Surely I'm not the only one that wants a vast music library on the go?

You probably aren't the only one, but you're part of a very small minority; so small in fact, that's it's economically not prudent to spend vast sums in R&D attempting to cater to it.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
OK, thinks I. After exhaustive searching it became clear that aside from a large hard drive there is little option. So, maybe I'll just settle with something with expandable memory, seeing as 128gb micro sd is not far off. Guess what? Hardly any choice there either!! Absolutely incredible.

Here's an idea.........find an old device that no longer works, and can be "had" for like nothing, and which has a HD in it; take the thing apart; carefully examine the HD, (and even read a book about how they "work"); after that, it will become abundantly clear why some people's "devices" fail, and other's keep right on working perfectly.

My iPod photo is quite "old" chronologically speaking, yet it continues to function flawlessly; I've used it for years traveling on our "pot hole" covered Interstates, and I occasionally play it when I'm "out and about"; I should also mention, it has something in it which isn't available at any price, anyplace; much of there complete works of Mozart, Beethoven, Liszt, Chopin, Tchaikovski, Verdi, Rossini, Pucinni, and about 100 more of the greatest composers ever to have lived, ALL meticulously typed as to title, key, musical "form", artist, orchestra, conductor, and all of the other things that classical music lovers arec interested in knowing about the music that are listening to. (and it's not even the biggest capacity HD that was available at the time, and is less than half full.)

Your "requirements" for a gargantuan capacity is really a bit like wondering why someone doesn't "offer" a Kindle or other e reader capable of holding the combined contents of the Library of Congress, and not wanting to spend "too much" to buy such a device; I suppose it would be possible, but I think most companies would respond by asking, "why bother"?

In all honesty, I'd also point out that even though you seem to have a fervent dislike for Apple products, in maintaining that "opinion", you have not had much effect on Apple's "bottom line", and at the same time, you have obliged yourself to "make do" with all of the "lesser" products on the market; (and while that may seem opinionated on my part, and possibly is, it is never-the-less a fact of life. )

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 28879 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
When you're actively looking for a specific interest, even a tiny minority can find each other on the internet – even airliner enthusiasts...!

Grr! Stop being so logical! I want my player!!

Quoting Geezer (Reply 16):

Your "requirements" for a gargantuan capacity is really a bit like wondering why someone doesn't "offer" a Kindle or other e reader capable of holding the combined contents of the Library of Congress, and not wanting to spend "too much" to buy such a device; I suppose it would be possible, but I think most companies would respond by asking, "why bother"?

Not so much. The book files are tiny, and books take an awful lot longer to read than a song takes to listen to. But then. I see nothing wrong either with the princple of having a very large, portable library.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 28875 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
Grr! Stop being so logical! I want my player!!

Peace! 

And good luck!


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 28873 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
And good luck!

Thanks, but unfortunately I'm rather coming to the conclusion that it's a lost cause - unless I just go with a hard drive, but even then the options are few. Even with the X7 I linked to originally they have discontinued the 160gb version (yes yes, I know - more evidence of low uptake......) and only have the 120gb version available.

To be honest, one of the biggest issues with an ipod is that the sound quality hasn't overly impressed when I've examined them.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 28865 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 19):
To be honest, one of the biggest issues with an ipod is that the sound quality hasn't overly impressed when I've examined them.

That does surprise me – my iPods, iPhones and iPads have all (had) excellent sound quality. And most technical tests confirm that as well: Apple generally uses very good quality D/A converters and drivers.

It's just that their included headphones completely suck. At least the ones I've tried so far. They've never been good for more than a short sarcastic laugh. (Maybe the new ones are any better, but I don't have high hopes.)

When the devices are used with very good headphones with a fitting impedance the quality is very good in my experience. I wouldn't accept poor performance myself. A part of my library is ripped losslessly because I do notice the difference in certain kinds of material.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 28861 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
I wouldn't accept poor performance myself

Oh, I wouldn't doubt that for a second!   

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
A part of my library is ripped losslessly because I do notice the difference in certain kinds of material.

Using which format? I understood that ipods don't support FLAC, for example. Is that the case?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21406 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 28853 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 21):
Using which format? I understood that ipods don't support FLAC, for example. Is that the case?

No, it's called "Apple Lossless" (ALAC), which Apple has released into the public domain a while ago after they've been using it for quite a number of years.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7109 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 28846 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 12):
Absolutely incredible.

What's incredible about it, Apple made such an excellent device, others tried, realised they couldn't make anything better so left the market rather than waste resources trying to compete.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7688 posts, RR: 21
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 28845 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
others tried, realised they couldn't make anything better so left the market

I really don't think it's as simple as that. Apart from anything else, Apple polarises opinion to such an extent that there is always going to be a significant group who just won't buy them. I think it's to some extent a little like another of my bugbears - phone manufacturers not permitting expandable memory, when technically it's very simple indeed to do - it's a bit of a 'we don't think you need it' mentality when the reality is a decent number do.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
25 KiwiRob : That group who didn't buy them didn't really get in behind other brands either, hence the fact that apple is now about the only game left in town.
26 RussianJet : Reading around, the Zune seems to get reasonable support - but irritatingly it's not available in the UK.
27 Geezer : Now that I can agree with...........(text files ARE smaller than sound files) No argument there either; but it's not a matter of being "wrong"; it's
28 Post contains images n229nw : I'm with you, man. My 160GB iPod classic is full (and it is pretty much all music, very little video, and it's in a lossy format at that...) I've bee
29 KiwiRob : I'm almost 100% certain the Microsoft stopped production of Zune players some time ago, there isn't even a Zune website that I can find.
30 Klaus : Apple has >70% of the pure music player market. And of the remaining 30% a lot is just extremely cheap mini-players. With the entire market shrink
31 Post contains links RussianJet : http://www.amazon.com/Zune-Video-MP3-Player-Platinum/dp/B002JPITY8 They can still be bought.
32 Klaus : That they're still available new this long after production has ended gives an indication how bad uptake has been and still is. You'll have to expect
33 Post contains images RussianJet : It's like I can see into the future! I foresaw this post in a vision!
34 Post contains images Klaus : That happens when a post merely reiterates what's obvious anyway.
35 Post contains images RussianJet : Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!
36 Geezer : I only have ONE question...................How on earth can any one human being LISTEN to that much music ? (I would ask what kind of music, but I on
37 Post contains links planewasted : If you want high end sound and feeling there is a Chinese(!) really serious player. I listened to it in Shenzhen and was really impressed. I think thi
38 RussianJet : Yeah, have seen that. Only 32gb built-in, and a fairly shocking price tag.
39 Dreadnought : The only question is at this point is why don't you just buy an IPod Classic and be done with it? It does/has everything you need. It was made by the
40 Klaus : It was apparently about sound quality, but apart from the dreadful standard earbuds I'm not aware of noticeable compromises there. The D/A converters
41 RussianJet : It was partly that. Also the fact that, particularly with the way things are going, I'm not mad keen to buy a hard disk-based device (although as per
42 Klaus : Yeah, right now is basically the last phase of the transition period from mechanical to solid state storage, particularly in mobile devices. I have n
43 RussianJet : Yeah. Looks like my money might have won a reprieve, for now.
44 tugger : My primary issue with the iPod is that I can't just view it on my computer when it is plugged in. I do prefer to be able to simply drop a file (wheth
45 RussianJet : I thought that could be done??!
46 tugger : Unfortunately not, you need iTunes for any files transfers. As I understand it there are other more svelte programs that can manage in place of iTune
47 zckls04 : Same reason people have a library of books. You won't listen to it all at once, but it's nice to have the choice when you suddenly think "I want to l
48 virginblue4 : It depends on what kind of files you are talking about. If you are talking about photos and videos, iTunes doesn't need to used at all, you can just
49 Post contains links zckls04 : Have you considered making one of these? http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ipod_Nano_200gb_Instructions/Page_3
50 tugger : But you need to configure the iPod for that and you need iTunes to do that. However if you have an iPod, then you will be required to have and use iT
51 JJJ : Tell that to me. They got me an iPad at work to reduce paperwork and presentation prints and it's frustrating you have to use a crappy app just to pu
52 KiwiRob : Sportify works well with i devices.
53 n229nw : It is not that much music, really, 72 days worth according to iTunes. I listen a lot. For your second question, the answer is everything. I suppose I
54 Post contains links zckls04 : Tricky- the problem with Estonian music is that it's often really hard to find, because recording in the Estonian language in Soviet times was not pe
55 n229nw : Cool, thank you, I will check some of this out!
56 Klaus : Syncing of PDFs to iBooks via iTunes is pretty easy, but there's another way as well if you want: SImply get the Good Reader app or an equivalent on
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