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Chrysler Reenters U.S. Diesel Market  
User currently offlinedcann40 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 303 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1832 times:

Amazingly enough, no U.S. carmaker has offered a diesel in quite some time. Chrysler is the first to offer a new "clean" diesel.

Chrysler Becomes First U.S. Automaker to Reenter Diesel Market

Quote:
DETROIT—At the North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Chrysler became the first U.S. automaker to reenter the growing diesel passenger car market, a field that has in recent years been dominated by German car companies.

The redesigned 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee was unveiled at the show ...



39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2068 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

That's the problem with American car makers. They miss modern technologies and for decades, they are years behind international competitors.

Good for Chrysler to try modern diesel engines. Perhaps they wake up now – or they turn over in bed again and wait for the next bailouts to come.



Wer wenig weiss muss vieles glauben
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 959 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1791 times:

Not clear from the article - is it going to be the VM motori engine?

User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1760 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 2):
Not clear from the article - is it going to be the VM motori engine?

Making a US-specific diesel would be kind of silly. Article says 3.0 so it's going to be the VM Motori that's already available in the European version and the euro Chrysler 300/Lancia Thema.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1767 times:

Happy that they have dropped the 8 speed auto into it and fixed up the interior, it now pops back into contender status for the wifes next new ride. I'd also like to see the Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot, Ford Explorer in Europe with diesels, hopefully VW will also launch there new 7 seat SUV here as well.

User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15692 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1763 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
Happy that they have dropped the 8 speed auto into it and fixed up the interior,

Funny what a few years with Mercedes can do.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
hopefully VW will also launch there new 7 seat SUV here as well.

Consider it done.
http://jalopnik.com/5975690/vw-cross...-a-diesel-hybrid-suv-out-of-a-golf
Diesel hybrid with an expected 35 MPG apparently. The resemblance to the Explorer has been noted, but it looks good.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1752 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
Consider it done.

Here meaning Europe not the US.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8780 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1736 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 1):
That's the problem with American car makers. They miss modern technologies and for decades, they are years behind international competitors.

Jeep Cherokees and minivans have been offered with diesel engines for 20 years in Europe.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2594 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1695 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
Funny what a few years with Mercedes can do.



Actually, the ZF 8 speed transmissions showed up at Chrysler long after Daimler-Benz was gone.

https://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/ZF8.html

As far as the interiors are concerned; just compare the Daimler and Fiat era Chrysler 300...incomparable.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8373 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1691 times:

Chrysler/Fiat has just as much engineering talent as any other car company. They may lack Hyundai/Toyota's sheer size, but they make up for it in guts and experience.

Does anybody doubt Ferrari's engineering? No? Didn't think so. Maserati, again a leader. Elsewhere in Fiat, Jeep Grand Cherokee is _the_ leader in segment, as it was 20 years ago, and likely 10 years ago as well. Ram is at least competitive, if not the leader. That's 2 of the 3 main segments in the US.

In 2014, I think Chrysler's product line will remove all doubt. All Daimler / Cerberus era product will be gone. They still need a Camry competitor. And, the minivan is old. Both will change in 2014.

GM has even more capability, but they are still not very well managed. Chrysler is (at the moment).


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Actually Dodge has been offering the Cummings diesel in their one tons for over twenty years now. It is about the only redeeming quality of a dodge truck.

As far as buying a dodge....never going to happen for me. Their build quality has been crap for years and I wont buy a car from either bailout company



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 8):
Actually, the ZF 8 speed transmissions showed up at Chrysler long after Daimler-Benz was gone.

Maybe he meant that Benz didn't want Chrysler to compete with them ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2594 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 11):
Maybe he meant that Benz didn't want Chrysler to compete with them ?

With the luxury of hindsight it really looks like DB was only interested in Chrysler's commercial vehicle division.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5382 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1649 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
Funny what a few years with Mercedes can do.

You mean gut and destroy a companies product pipeline? Yeah, it can do that.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
As far as buying a dodge....never going to happen for me. Their build quality has been crap for years and I wont buy a car from either bailout company

So I take it you don't do any banking anymore either? If the product is good I will buy it. I have owned two Dodge/Chrysler products over the last 20 odd years and liked them both and drove them a long time. Were they "great"? No. But they were good cars for the price and did what I needed and each ended their time with me with well over 150,000 miles and almost no service beyond oil changes. Not to bad.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3527 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1634 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 1):
That's the problem with American car makers. They miss modern technologies and for decades, they are years behind international competitors.

Good for Chrysler to try modern diesel engines. Perhaps they wake up now – or they turn over in bed again and wait for the next bailouts to come.

And as Europe is ready to throw diesel under the bus, why would we want to embrace a technology whose time is gone? Because Europeans say so? Last week, the EU admitted failure with diesel. That train has passed, electrification will power our cars in the future and in this regard, Europeans are playing catch-up. This is not just my opinion, Euro manufacturers have all publicly said the same.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 7):
Jeep Cherokees and minivans have been offered with diesel engines for 20 years in Europe.

The Cherokee had a diesel up until a few years ago. Phased out because of emissions.

It will take Chrysler a generation before they will prove to the masses in the US they are worth buying. Especially now they are merged up with a brand that was chased out of the country because of quality - FIAT, widely known as Fix It Again Tony. Notable already are the slow US sales of the new Fiat Dart.
It's amusing to see the Euros here proclaiming Chrysler worthwhile after all these years of bashing American cars. Chrysler is easily the worst manufacturer in this country but it's all good now because they will import a diesel? Hah, good luck with your pos.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1628 times:

Actually Tugg, neither of my credit unions took bailout money either.

Credit Unions especially regional and smaller ones are always better to deal with. Generally speaking they have to actually respect you to keep you as a customer, which is important because their customer base isnt that large.

I an glad that ypu had good luck with yours but that has not been my experience with them.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5382 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1616 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 15):
Actually Tugg, neither of my credit unions took bailout money either.

Credit Unions especially regional and smaller ones are always better to deal with. Generally speaking they have to actually respect you to keep you as a customer, which is important because their customer base isnt that large.

I an glad that you had good luck with yours but that has not been my experience with them.

Fair dinkum and thanks. And I agree on the credit unions and smaller local banks being better for most individuals.

Yes, I had a good solid decent experience with my Dodge and my Chrysler product (notice I didn't say
"fantastic" or "great"   ). I do understand what people mean about the quality though and happily it does appear to be a focus of theirs and improving. I must say I am not a brand loyal person at all, it is always what do I need, what fits best with those needs and my resources. I will be curious to see how to do in the coming years and do wish them success. Bailout or no, I think they have a great history and can make good cars.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

Dont get me wrong if i won a dodge truck in the annual Iditarod raffle i wouldnt say no. But i am not, with one exception, seek out one to replace my Ford. we are just comming up on 180k miles on thst truck


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1591 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 14):

And as Europe is ready to throw diesel under the bus, why would we want to embrace a technology whose time is gone?

Europe is not going to throw diesel under the bus, Euro6 makes diesel as clean as petrol, European manufacturers (and consumers) have far to much vested in diesel to let the EU throw it away, rather like folks with their guns in the US, you'd have to pry my diesels from my cold dead hands before I'd switch back to petrol.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1578 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 14):
electrification will power our cars in the future and in this regard, Europeans are playing catch-up. This is not just my opinion, Euro manufacturers have all publicly said the same.

I'm also in favor of electrification but for long range that's not the solution yet. As for playing catch up, I'm not sure what you mean. In fact the US is at a clear disadvantage with its 110V electric infrastructure that means slower charging. As far as I know the leader in electric vehicles is Renault-Nissan, a Franco-Japanese company.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1543 times:

I am anxious to see Chrysler/Fiat offer the 3.0 VM Motori diesel in the Jeep Wrangler. Also, there have been persistent rumors that there will be a Fiat-sourced diesel Dodge Dart in showrooms, to compete with Chevrolet's Cruze Diesel and VW's Jetta/Golf TDI models.


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15692 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1542 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 8):
As far as the interiors are concerned; just compare the Daimler and Fiat era Chrysler 300...incomparable.

Of course compare the original 300s to what Chrysler had before. And the improvements the Grand Cherokee experienced from Mercedes influence. Not that I'm saying Chrysler has no room for improvement (the 200 still exists, after all) or will suffer a return to mediocrity due to Fiat, just that the Daimler marriage was good as a whole.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
Does anybody doubt Ferrari's engineering? No? Didn't think so.

In terms of performance, no. In terms of reliability and not catching on fire, there are some questions.

And let's not forget the changes Lamborghini has experienced under VAG ownership, which some would call drastic improvements but others would argue cost them some personality.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5382 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1539 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 19):
I'm also in favor of electrification but for long range that's not the solution yet. As for playing catch up, I'm not sure what you mean. In fact the US is at a clear disadvantage with its 110V electric infrastructure that means slower charging.

That is not entirely true. Almost every house and most anywhere that get power piped in from a utility, has 220v at ready access. Many homes already have a 220v plug in the garage, the issue is setting up the charging station as everything needs to be properly installed and we are used to thinking "I can just plug it in!".

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 959 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1513 times:

[

Quoting JJJ (Reply 3):
Making a US-specific diesel would be kind of silly. Article says 3.0 so it's going to be the VM Motori that's already available in the European version and the euro Chrysler 300/Lancia Thema.

Just wanted to clarify that it was the market that was new rather than the engine - it's been availble here in the Grand Cherokee for a couple of years as well, although the 300 lineup is all petrol.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26338 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1405 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
Does anybody doubt Ferrari's engineering? No? Didn't think so. Maserati, again a leader.

Maserati is basically a way of selling detuned, cheaper Ferraris.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently onlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1419 times:

The problem is getting the American public to accept diesel cars. Anybody my age or older remembers the energy crisis in the 1970's. Some automakers then decided to try their luck at diesel cars in the US which were introduced around 1980. The results were disasterous. They were extremely underpowered, and most diesel powered cars had converted gasoline engines. The only reliable diesel cars I remember were the VW Rabbit and the Mercedes.

This brings us to Oldsmobile. They were notorious for being very unreliable, smoke belching, and environmentally unfriendly. I did everything I could not to be behind one so I didn't gag on the exhaust they put out.

Because their engines were converted from gasoline engines, they suffered many breakdowns and Oldsmobile made many warranty repairs on them. The last ones were built in 1985 and Oldsmobile got out of the diesel car business. They were so bad that the American public rejected diesel cars and the diesel car market in the US was dead for almost 20 years.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15692 posts, RR: 26
Reply 26, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1406 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Maserati is basically a way of selling detuned, cheaper Ferraris.

That's far better than what they were doing before. The Biturbo might be a good entry for the "Worst Cars" thread. But, what's wrong with a cheaper, softer Italian car anyway? Sixty something urologists need something less ubiquitous than the wonderful Porsche 911 but more comfortable than a Lotus Evora or a Viper.

Quoting bohica (Reply 25):
The only reliable diesel cars I remember were the VW Rabbit and the Mercedes.

They were reliable, but they were also slow, smelly, and noisy.

But you're right that perception is a big problem for diesel in America, along with the regulations and taxation. My grandfather believed that diesels were noisy and unreliable (among other automotive maxims that long since ceased being true) until the day he died. He probably actually forgot sometime before that, but you get the idea.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 13
Reply 27, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1409 times:

If the anticipated performance and mileage characteristics of the 2014 Jeep come to fruition, I might even consider one (presupposing the price isn't outrageous for the content you get).

Gone now are the smokey, smelly clatterings of past typical diesels, but they still do have one perpetual drawback. If wifey gets just a drop or two of diesel on her pinkies whilst refueling, she'll stink all day long and be headed to the dealer for a trade-in the following day. regards...jack



all best; jack
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15692 posts, RR: 26
Reply 28, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1408 times:

Quoting cptkrell (Reply 27):
If wifey gets just a drop or two of diesel on her pinkies whilst refueling, she'll stink all day long and be headed to the dealer for a trade-in the following day.

That's about the best smell you could have.

Locally gas stations have some sticker that says something to the effect of "Gasoline makes a really bad cologne" or something to discourage topping up the tank. I'd say that if that's the case it just means you have the wrong girl.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinecptkrell From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3220 posts, RR: 13
Reply 29, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1412 times:

BMI727 (Rep 28) "...best smell..." Nah, I get diesel on me every once in a while refueling my tractors, and it DO stink. You can get diesel drips on your hands just pulling the nozzle out of the pump. Anyway, she's an ex-trucker type and knows better than to top off (the tank).   ...jack


all best; jack
User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7438 posts, RR: 62
Reply 30, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1306 times:
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Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 4):
Happy that they have dropped the 8 speed auto into it and fixed up the interior, it now pops back into contender status for the wifes next new ride. I'd also like to see the Toyota Highlander, Honda Pilot, Ford Explorer in Europe with diesels, hopefully VW will also launch there new 7 seat SUV here as well.

Looking forward to the 8 speed tranny.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):

Actually Dodge has been offering the Cummings diesel in their one tons for over twenty years now. It is about the only redeeming quality of a dodge truck.

And it works. Throw that 8 speed with the Cummins......wow....to think.

Quoting tugger (Reply 13):
I have owned two Dodge/Chrysler products over the last 20 odd years and liked them both and drove them a long time. Were they "great"? No. But they were good cars for the price and did what I needed and each ended their time with me with well over 150,000 miles and almost no service beyond oil changes. Not to bad.

You know, honestly, its all about what you value.
It all depends on your perspective so you're right! I just came across the warranty period on our Honda. Only had 2 issues, one under warranty and one out. Even with Honda, there were issues and how the support came across also played a role.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 14):
Hah, good luck with your pos.

How childish. IIRC the comment was also made about how diesels kill. Each remark reduces the credibility of the your statements.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 28):
That's about the best smell you could have.

I can think of others but whether is unleaded gas or diesel, a drop of it on you will linger.....



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 31, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1259 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Maserati is basically a way of selling detuned, cheaper Ferraris.

But they are not detuned, cheaper Ferraris, there's no platform sharing, very little component sharing, they have a completely different look and feel. The only Maserati and Ferrari which were very nearly the same are the MC12 and ENZO. Despite being slightly less powerful with non active suspension the MC12 is faster around the ring and was more expensive to buy, better looking too.

http://www.topgear.nl/image/wallpapers/31/formaat/1680x1050/afbeelding/maserati-mc12--en--ferrari-enzo.jpg


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2594 posts, RR: 5
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1234 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 30):
And it works. Throw that 8 speed with the Cummins......wow....to think.




I have a feeling that the Cummins offers more torque that the 8 speed ZF can handle. So for the foreseeable future the Cummins will be combined only with a 6 speed auto and 6 speed stick.


User currently offlinemirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7438 posts, RR: 62
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1171 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 32):
I have a feeling that the Cummins offers more torque that the 8 speed ZF can handle. So for the foreseeable future the Cummins will be combined only with a 6 speed auto and 6 speed stick.

The feelings the same, but we can dream, can't we?



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8373 posts, RR: 3
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1155 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 31):
But they are not detuned, cheaper Ferraris, there's no platform sharing, very little component sharing, they have a completely different look and feel.

They do share engines -- and they are tuned for more torque, lower horsepower in Maseratis.

Interesting to note that Maserati sold ~7500 cars last year, about equal to Ferrari. Maserati intends to expand to 50,000 within a few years, with an SUV and a cheaper sedan. The future looks bright for Maserati, imo.

The reason to mention this is, Chrysler's good engineers can collaborate with Fiat / Maerati / Ferrari engineers. The results will be coming out in 2014. The Maserati SUV based on Grand Cherokee chassis, for just one example.

For the rest of this decade, Chrysler should be selling really good products if this all works.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 35, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1145 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 34):

They do share engines -- and they are tuned for more torque, lower horsepower in Maseratis.

They share the basic block, but capacities and technology are different.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15692 posts, RR: 26
Reply 36, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 34):
They do share engines

Parts of engines anyway. I think Ferrari uses a flat plane crank while Maserati has a cross plane version.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7036 posts, RR: 3
Reply 37, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1142 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 35):
They share the basic block, but capacities and technology are different.

Here you go Rob a nice description of all versions of the family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari/Maserati_engine#V8


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2594 posts, RR: 5
Reply 38, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1105 times:

Quoting mirrodie (Reply 33):
The feelings the same, but we can dream, can't we?

We certainly can, however...I'd be absolutely OK with the M6. However, it's a bit pricey to be a personal truck. Even with our employee discount.

That said, I've been (sort of) dreaming of the new Jeep Gladiator. Ended up with a Frontier.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 39, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1076 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 34):
The Maserati SUV

Another great brand down the drain...



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
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